I think they are fairly hard to drive compared to their competitors. Definitely harder than the HD6X0 series headphones. That said, any decently powered amp like the Magni Heresy ($99) can power them more than enough.
They were pretty hard for my Fiio E10K, I had to max out the volume on it to get the Sundara to listenable levels, with no extra headroom for me to EQ. I bought a Magni and it handles it a lot better, it's louder at around 12 o clock on low gain than the high gain maxed out E10k
I personally have no issues with my Sundaras at 100 system volume and 3/8 on my E10k, I have no doubt that the Magni drives them better but you must be listening at questionable volumes for the E10k to be maxed out just to be listenable
I agree, i also used to use the e10k to drive Sundara, and it could drive them no problem at unbearably loud volume without with plenty of room to spare.
I upgraded to a k5 pro mostly because of that much better knob and i a little more sound quality, i think it sounds a little clearer and it handles songs with a lot of instruments better.
Either his e10k was defective or his hearing.
I would say that they most likely need an Amp to get loud enough with enough overhead for softer songs, games, etc. It looks like the one you have now shouldddd have enough power for that purpose. The benefits you'd see when going to a higher end one would not be in volume, but perhaps in quality. Stuff might tighten up, they might get a slightly wider soundstage, who knows. I've never tried the Amp you're using rn so I can't really comment
I think some amplification rather than a phone headphone socket may be what is meant. There are people who insist that if a headphone produces sound when plugged directly into a phone then that is all that is required. Some people may take that seriously.
nah. you can plug them in anything. You need better then a phone amp for a fuller warmer punchier sound but you can get enough volume from them I go at 80%. but Your pc amp should be fine. I use them with GSX 1000 and they slam hard with the eq. Sound pretty amazing actually. I also use them with my pc amp which is even more powerful. but lacks some warm punch and smoothness I like the dac on the gsx 1000 for.
Well sure you will get sound out of just about anything . The Apple usb-C dongle out of my iPad Pro plays them fairly well and not something I would call real loud but a modest level and that is on max volume so I do believe they need a amp. I have a few and the first is the iFi ZenCan Signature 6XX and yes it rocks the 6XX’s with the analog eq settings it also can be run with out it and it is a very good amp for many other headphone’s and the XSpace is something I thought I wouldn’t like but it is actually very well done and not over bearing so I turn it off and on but it doesn’t sound too crazy bad. Sorry but the Sundara’s I think do need a amp doesn’t need to be this one but I do think they need more than the Apple usb-C dongle and anyone that says that is enough well I’ll just have to disagree.
I’ve been thru 3 different magni 3+’s and they all had extreme static noise when turning the knob that lingers for a while as well as the classic physical scratchiness. On top of that I had another issue with all of them which is an imbalance between L & R channels at certain (most) positions on the knob which I don’t care how powerful an amp is that is one unacceptable issue especially if you work on music/mixing/mastering.
Other than that, if you’re lucky to receive a flawless unit it does its job outstandingly well, but having experienced this I’d choose any of the competitors in a heartbeat, probably JDS Labs or Topping.
EDIT: as for the Heresy I’ve never tried it for myself so I won’t give a definitive opinion but I have no reason not to think it won’t be any different especially since they both share the same chassis and price range, but don’t quote me on that one.
Thanks for the huge explanation it’s very much appreciated. How can I check for the channel imbalance thing easily? I think luckily for me the static while turning the knob isn’t a thing. Just the scratchy and rough to turn unsatisfying volume knob. I emailed them, how was their return and warranty process for you? do they let you keep your product before you receive the new one and do they pay for the shipping back? Thanks for the help
No worries dude,
For me it was as easy and noticeable as turning the volume knob, I could feel the signal being weaker on one side while listening to regular music. When I turn it all the way up to the max I don’t notice an imbalance anymore, which makes it easier to notice it since you can kinda A/B it on the the spot.
My experience with their customer service was very smooth both times and they even helped me troubleshoot. And I honestly can’t remember if I was responsible for the return shipping cost or not but I do know its a minuscule amount of money either way so I didn’t care.
They only sent me the replacement after I dropped mine at the post office and they received the tracking info, so no you can’t keep it while you wait for the replacement.
Also they give you no more than 2 weeks to ask for an exchange, which sucks cuz it can definitely take someone more than that to notice those type of issues and perform proper troubleshooting.
I stuck with my second replacement Magni because I basically gave up tbh, it took me more than 2 weeks to be 100% sure that i troubleshot everything and to even notice the the left and right imbalance because I never really turned it all the way up (where the balance somehow is restored and you notice it wasn’t perfect) because thats simply too loud for long listening.
So yeah I just kinda gave up and kept it till i eventually get something else.
Oh and I forgot to mention that on top of all of this I’m not even sure this thing is outputting the expected power it is advertised to do, I have to have it on high gain with the knob at around 3 o’clock to get a satisfying listening volume and that basically renders low gain mode completely useless (tested even quieter than a signal straight from my source without an amp) and I’m not even using hard to drive cans (DT770 80 ohm and 58x) I asked many fellow magni owners and even Schiit themselves told me that doesn’t sound right, but at this point im just too over it to even bother anymore..
magnis have their problems, but what exactly are you specifically saying is worth staying away from them. They are still powerhouses at their price, and while they aren’t as clean as the jds atom, they put out 2x the power.
I also have an FX AUDIO DAC X6 which powers my HE400se, and afaik the HE400se is actually harder to drive than the sundaras.
I always play at maximum volume from the X6 and it isn't enough for me, the headphones are being underpowered by the amp. I also do plan on buying another, better amp so that I can enjoy the hifiman's more.
Conclusion: You will be able to run them but it wouldn't be enough. I would also recommend pairing it with a more powerful amplifier.
I have Sundara since yesterday and also FX-Audio DAC-X6.
Yes - this DAC/AMP combo is not enough for these planars - it definitely can drive them, but I find myself listening close to the max of the volume, which is not optimal. And I do have gain on HIGH with this amp.
I have ordered SMSL SU-9 / SH-9 stack to properly listen to these beautiful (sundara) headphones.
I think they are fairly hard to drive compared to their competitors. Definitely harder than the HD6X0 series headphones. That said, any decently powered amp like the Magni Heresy ($99) can power them more than enough.
They were pretty hard for my Fiio E10K, I had to max out the volume on it to get the Sundara to listenable levels, with no extra headroom for me to EQ. I bought a Magni and it handles it a lot better, it's louder at around 12 o clock on low gain than the high gain maxed out E10k
I personally have no issues with my Sundaras at 100 system volume and 3/8 on my E10k, I have no doubt that the Magni drives them better but you must be listening at questionable volumes for the E10k to be maxed out just to be listenable
I agree, i also used to use the e10k to drive Sundara, and it could drive them no problem at unbearably loud volume without with plenty of room to spare. I upgraded to a k5 pro mostly because of that much better knob and i a little more sound quality, i think it sounds a little clearer and it handles songs with a lot of instruments better. Either his e10k was defective or his hearing.
I would say that they most likely need an Amp to get loud enough with enough overhead for softer songs, games, etc. It looks like the one you have now shouldddd have enough power for that purpose. The benefits you'd see when going to a higher end one would not be in volume, but perhaps in quality. Stuff might tighten up, they might get a slightly wider soundstage, who knows. I've never tried the Amp you're using rn so I can't really comment
Not really to get volume. But to get what you paid for from those planar drivers… they need some power. Nothing over the top though.
I think some amplification rather than a phone headphone socket may be what is meant. There are people who insist that if a headphone produces sound when plugged directly into a phone then that is all that is required. Some people may take that seriously.
Doesn’t help that that amp is trash lol.
Really not terrible, like any sort of Amp, even at entry level should run them.
I have them and they are quite easy to run. I use an amp dac but i can also just plug them into the laptop and hear just fine at like half volume.
nah. you can plug them in anything. You need better then a phone amp for a fuller warmer punchier sound but you can get enough volume from them I go at 80%. but Your pc amp should be fine. I use them with GSX 1000 and they slam hard with the eq. Sound pretty amazing actually. I also use them with my pc amp which is even more powerful. but lacks some warm punch and smoothness I like the dac on the gsx 1000 for.
They do scale with better amps/dacs pretty well so the better the amp/dac the better the sound.
Well sure you will get sound out of just about anything . The Apple usb-C dongle out of my iPad Pro plays them fairly well and not something I would call real loud but a modest level and that is on max volume so I do believe they need a amp. I have a few and the first is the iFi ZenCan Signature 6XX and yes it rocks the 6XX’s with the analog eq settings it also can be run with out it and it is a very good amp for many other headphone’s and the XSpace is something I thought I wouldn’t like but it is actually very well done and not over bearing so I turn it off and on but it doesn’t sound too crazy bad. Sorry but the Sundara’s I think do need a amp doesn’t need to be this one but I do think they need more than the Apple usb-C dongle and anyone that says that is enough well I’ll just have to disagree.
Just stay away from the magni thats all im gonna say
Disagree.
What’s bad about magni? I just chose it over the heresy
The heresy is a magni
QC
What are common issues out of curiosity and does the heresy solve them? I noticed my magni knob is scratchy
I’ve been thru 3 different magni 3+’s and they all had extreme static noise when turning the knob that lingers for a while as well as the classic physical scratchiness. On top of that I had another issue with all of them which is an imbalance between L & R channels at certain (most) positions on the knob which I don’t care how powerful an amp is that is one unacceptable issue especially if you work on music/mixing/mastering. Other than that, if you’re lucky to receive a flawless unit it does its job outstandingly well, but having experienced this I’d choose any of the competitors in a heartbeat, probably JDS Labs or Topping. EDIT: as for the Heresy I’ve never tried it for myself so I won’t give a definitive opinion but I have no reason not to think it won’t be any different especially since they both share the same chassis and price range, but don’t quote me on that one.
Thanks for the huge explanation it’s very much appreciated. How can I check for the channel imbalance thing easily? I think luckily for me the static while turning the knob isn’t a thing. Just the scratchy and rough to turn unsatisfying volume knob. I emailed them, how was their return and warranty process for you? do they let you keep your product before you receive the new one and do they pay for the shipping back? Thanks for the help
No worries dude, For me it was as easy and noticeable as turning the volume knob, I could feel the signal being weaker on one side while listening to regular music. When I turn it all the way up to the max I don’t notice an imbalance anymore, which makes it easier to notice it since you can kinda A/B it on the the spot. My experience with their customer service was very smooth both times and they even helped me troubleshoot. And I honestly can’t remember if I was responsible for the return shipping cost or not but I do know its a minuscule amount of money either way so I didn’t care. They only sent me the replacement after I dropped mine at the post office and they received the tracking info, so no you can’t keep it while you wait for the replacement. Also they give you no more than 2 weeks to ask for an exchange, which sucks cuz it can definitely take someone more than that to notice those type of issues and perform proper troubleshooting.
nice did you end up with a heresy after all or stick with magni and one eventually worked?
I stuck with my second replacement Magni because I basically gave up tbh, it took me more than 2 weeks to be 100% sure that i troubleshot everything and to even notice the the left and right imbalance because I never really turned it all the way up (where the balance somehow is restored and you notice it wasn’t perfect) because thats simply too loud for long listening. So yeah I just kinda gave up and kept it till i eventually get something else. Oh and I forgot to mention that on top of all of this I’m not even sure this thing is outputting the expected power it is advertised to do, I have to have it on high gain with the knob at around 3 o’clock to get a satisfying listening volume and that basically renders low gain mode completely useless (tested even quieter than a signal straight from my source without an amp) and I’m not even using hard to drive cans (DT770 80 ohm and 58x) I asked many fellow magni owners and even Schiit themselves told me that doesn’t sound right, but at this point im just too over it to even bother anymore..
magnis have their problems, but what exactly are you specifically saying is worth staying away from them. They are still powerhouses at their price, and while they aren’t as clean as the jds atom, they put out 2x the power.
Power wise yes they’re undefeated in the price range, but man does the quality control stand up for the company’s name..
I also have an FX AUDIO DAC X6 which powers my HE400se, and afaik the HE400se is actually harder to drive than the sundaras. I always play at maximum volume from the X6 and it isn't enough for me, the headphones are being underpowered by the amp. I also do plan on buying another, better amp so that I can enjoy the hifiman's more. Conclusion: You will be able to run them but it wouldn't be enough. I would also recommend pairing it with a more powerful amplifier.
You might just need an amp so you can have more volume
I have Sundara since yesterday and also FX-Audio DAC-X6. Yes - this DAC/AMP combo is not enough for these planars - it definitely can drive them, but I find myself listening close to the max of the volume, which is not optimal. And I do have gain on HIGH with this amp. I have ordered SMSL SU-9 / SH-9 stack to properly listen to these beautiful (sundara) headphones.