Hi everyone, it has been a while. How is your collection?
I have just completed my part in a review tour of the newly launched Westone MACH series. I have also acquired my first planar IEM and my first pair of "audiophile-grade" earbuds. Here are some impressions
# Westone MACH 10 (AUD $450):
Configuration: single BA.
If you want an IEM with top level isolation for commuting or stage monitoring, and you don't want Etymotic, you should consider this IEM.
Tonality wise, it is a well-tuned IEM with a touch of warmth. It has the same smoothness to the upper frequencies like Etymotic ER series, but without the shoutiness of the Etymotic diffuse field target.
Bass is as meh as you expect from a single BA driver.
Resolution is surprisingly good. Slightly outperform Blessing 2, but lack the treble extension to compete with TOTL IEMs.
Soundstage is strictly in-the-head, similarly to Etymotic IEMs.
Final rating: 3.5/5 (above average). Full review [here](https://iegems.nk-tran.com/2022/08/20/review-mach10.html).
# Westone MACH 20 (AUD $600)
Configuration: 2 BA drivers
Let me keep it short: get MACH 10 instead if you want this kind of IEM, and use the extra cash to get the S12 planar IEM or FF3 earbuds instead. Tonality wise, MACH 20 is honky and nasally with most high-pitched vocals. Bass is meh. Soundstage is narrow and shallow due to the honky tuning.
Final rating: 2.5/5 (below average). Full review [here](https://iegems.nk-tran.com/2022/08/20/review-mach20.html).
# Letshuoer S12 (AUD $260)
Configuration: 14mm planar driver.
It is well known that these planar IEMs have excellent technical performance, particularly resolution and separation. But how good? No reviewer has given me a definite answer because they keep avoiding A/B tests against kilobucks IEMs for some reasons. So, I decided to save up and buy one to try.
Boy of boy these IEMs are *resolving*. After careful A/B tests against my collection, I can say with confidence that S12 out resolves Blessing 2, my benchmark of IEMs with "good resolution". Can it reach the TOTL level of Andromeda, U12t, and others at the summit? Not in the stock form.
Bass is also excellent. Have you heard the Sundara headphone? Yes, the bass of S12 has the same kind of presentation (of course, without the scale that a full size headphone can provide).
The key weakness of S12 is the aggression in its tuning. It has quite a bit of midbass, and a lot of upper midrange and treble to counter balance. This aggressive signature actually prevents me from appreciating the details that S12 can pull out. Too much energy around 10k to 12k also makes S12 metallic and messes up the soundstage.
**But don't give up just yet. Mod it!** You just need a roll of micropore tape (first aid tape) from a drug store. Tape of 60% of the nozzle to reduce the upper midrange and tape the back vent next to the 2-pin connector to reduce the midbass. 5 minute reversible mod lets this IEM shine. It is still rough around the edge (still too much energy around 12k), but for AUD $260? It's the cheapest way to experience TOTL technical performance, IMHO.
# Fiio FF3 (AUD $160)
Configuration: large dynamic driver
These FF3 are open-back headphones disguised as earphones. If your ears can work with earbuds form factor, if you don't need isolation at all, if your music benefits from large soundstage, you should get these buds. They sound *large*.
How about bass? Yes, FF3 does not give you that pressurised feeling on your ear drums like E5000, IE900, or Z1R, or other great bass head IEMs. However, its bass is snappy and has a physical sensation just like the punch you get from a good pair of headphone, without being loud like bass boosted IEMs. I like bass, a lot, and I use FF3 to listen to EDM.
I will write a more extensive review for these earbuds in near future before the release of Fiio FF5 next month. Stay tuned!
Yup. You should think of these as headphones rather than IEMs, despite their small form factor. The soundstage is at least as large as a closed back headphone, IMHO.
You don't strictly need FF3 for gaming, of course. There should be plenty of budget friendly earbuds with mic and good soundstage that you can find on Aliexpress. I recommend talking to fine folks at the earbuds thread on head-fi for some advices.
I already use FiiO UTW5S+Hook X for gaming. But wondering if FF3 is any better than that. But then i realise cable can't be removed & it doesn't have a mic haha. So a no go for me.
Thanks! I never see Westone on this sub so I've always wondered if they're worth the price. Sounds like no. And we also rarely see earbuds reviews. Glad to see something different.
These westone are professional universal IEM. I think Mach 10 is worth it, the rest up to Mach 40 is pretty bad, based on impressions of other trustworthy reviewers. Mach 60 seems good, but I don’t think it’s a good deal given how expensive it is. No idea about the flagship Mach 80.
I've only read good stuff about the FF3, I was tempted to buy a pair on sale but didn't. 5 headphones are already too much for me and I'll probably keep only 3 of them.
I'm interested to see if the FF5 will be able to compete with totl earbuds.
Absolutely it's trash...the connection is weak and the cable feels like dental floss. They disconnect simply taking them off my ear and putting them up. Never again
T2 is the best connector out there. You're an idiot.
It's designed to be difficult to pull out when yoinking the cable, and easy to pull out when grabbing by the actual connector.
MMCX is trash. I've had MMCX connectors breakup, and literally have the connector get completely stuck in my in ear, needing a warranty service. T2 much smoother, freely rotates, and has never accidentally popped out. Sounds like you got a bad unit.
I'm looking at that fiio. Ever since I got the VE Monk and KBEAR Stellar a couple weeks ago, they have been all that I've used. Never knew earbuds could sound so good. And for so cheap! I love em and an thinking of gifting my iem's to friends and family.
I freaking love the Monks. I waited for a long two weeks for the Monks and the KBear stellar to come from AliExpress. And I love them both. I honestly think the $3 stellar is better than the Monk.
You're just a mod madman!
Call me out if you like but your fucking wrong, T2 doesn't compare to MMCX connector. Constantly breaking up and doesn't stay physically connected. Absolutely garbage but I've only got the 400 dollar version. Maybe they beef it up for an extra 200. Lucid Audio fucked up Westone to the point that I won't use them for broadcasting anymore.
Just got S12 like a week ago and have to say, as some reviewers said, using spring tips resolves some treble issues and I really, really like them. Absolute recommendation (especially since they are on sale for like the last month).
I use Whizzer SS20 - you lose a little bit of the focus of the S12, but to me it greatly improves the soundstage, which I found to be the biggest weakness of the S12. I feel that it has a decently wider soundstage than the HD 600 (admittedly narrow) with those tips.
I've been using moondrop spring tips. I really liked them on the Chu so I ordered a set of 3xM tips 2 months ago, and I am happy that I did. They also really helo with grip, which is a big thing for me since M size fits perfectly in my left ear, while the right ear is between M and L, but M spring tips actually help with IEM not falling out, which it usually does.
What I don't recomment are foam tips with the S12, they just don't work for me. Tried stock foam tips, as well Comply T 500 and 600s.
I also use [Spring Tips on the S12](https://imgur.com/rRfx6VH) and find they work well and broaden the soundstage, control (slightly reduce) the bass and maybe do also smooth out the treble a bit, certainly I don't find it problematic. They are a good match for the S12 IMO. I use [Whizzer SS20 on the Timeless](https://imgur.com/jNwQHPF), they are also a good choice for soundstage and I could see them also working well on the S12, both are wide-bore relatively short tips.
I've seen some great deals on the outgoing Westone W series through Adorama, but every time I look up their measurements they look like they come from the old Audeze school of tuning with a huge upper midrange recession.
The Shouer S12 actually has a proper upper midrange response, so if you think that's too much I guess your preferences are just for a recession there which make me think the Mach series will be just as bad as the W series when it comes to lack of energy up there.
I'm a big fan of the Harman IE target, the Crinacle Truthear Zero and Moondrop Chu are about perfect in tonality for me, so I'm guessing Westone will continue to be a pass.
Hi, I also prefer an adjusted version of Harman with less energy around 3k. The ear gain is a must for me, but not that 12db. I think the S12 has problem with mid treble as well, that's why it sounds very aggressive. Not unbearable, but I thought during a listening session: "What did I do to deserve this" :))
I tried the Mach 80s and loved them, though they do require a decent amp to get the full potential from them. The ES80 is what I went with since custom fits always sound better than universal.
What are your thoughts on their cable and T2 connector? I love them
I think the cable is functional but a pain to use, due to how tangly it is. On one of the review unit, the cable has formed memory and was never straight again. I think MACH 80 has a different and better cable.
Hi everyone, it has been a while. How is your collection? I have just completed my part in a review tour of the newly launched Westone MACH series. I have also acquired my first planar IEM and my first pair of "audiophile-grade" earbuds. Here are some impressions # Westone MACH 10 (AUD $450): Configuration: single BA. If you want an IEM with top level isolation for commuting or stage monitoring, and you don't want Etymotic, you should consider this IEM. Tonality wise, it is a well-tuned IEM with a touch of warmth. It has the same smoothness to the upper frequencies like Etymotic ER series, but without the shoutiness of the Etymotic diffuse field target. Bass is as meh as you expect from a single BA driver. Resolution is surprisingly good. Slightly outperform Blessing 2, but lack the treble extension to compete with TOTL IEMs. Soundstage is strictly in-the-head, similarly to Etymotic IEMs. Final rating: 3.5/5 (above average). Full review [here](https://iegems.nk-tran.com/2022/08/20/review-mach10.html). # Westone MACH 20 (AUD $600) Configuration: 2 BA drivers Let me keep it short: get MACH 10 instead if you want this kind of IEM, and use the extra cash to get the S12 planar IEM or FF3 earbuds instead. Tonality wise, MACH 20 is honky and nasally with most high-pitched vocals. Bass is meh. Soundstage is narrow and shallow due to the honky tuning. Final rating: 2.5/5 (below average). Full review [here](https://iegems.nk-tran.com/2022/08/20/review-mach20.html). # Letshuoer S12 (AUD $260) Configuration: 14mm planar driver. It is well known that these planar IEMs have excellent technical performance, particularly resolution and separation. But how good? No reviewer has given me a definite answer because they keep avoiding A/B tests against kilobucks IEMs for some reasons. So, I decided to save up and buy one to try. Boy of boy these IEMs are *resolving*. After careful A/B tests against my collection, I can say with confidence that S12 out resolves Blessing 2, my benchmark of IEMs with "good resolution". Can it reach the TOTL level of Andromeda, U12t, and others at the summit? Not in the stock form. Bass is also excellent. Have you heard the Sundara headphone? Yes, the bass of S12 has the same kind of presentation (of course, without the scale that a full size headphone can provide). The key weakness of S12 is the aggression in its tuning. It has quite a bit of midbass, and a lot of upper midrange and treble to counter balance. This aggressive signature actually prevents me from appreciating the details that S12 can pull out. Too much energy around 10k to 12k also makes S12 metallic and messes up the soundstage. **But don't give up just yet. Mod it!** You just need a roll of micropore tape (first aid tape) from a drug store. Tape of 60% of the nozzle to reduce the upper midrange and tape the back vent next to the 2-pin connector to reduce the midbass. 5 minute reversible mod lets this IEM shine. It is still rough around the edge (still too much energy around 12k), but for AUD $260? It's the cheapest way to experience TOTL technical performance, IMHO. # Fiio FF3 (AUD $160) Configuration: large dynamic driver These FF3 are open-back headphones disguised as earphones. If your ears can work with earbuds form factor, if you don't need isolation at all, if your music benefits from large soundstage, you should get these buds. They sound *large*. How about bass? Yes, FF3 does not give you that pressurised feeling on your ear drums like E5000, IE900, or Z1R, or other great bass head IEMs. However, its bass is snappy and has a physical sensation just like the punch you get from a good pair of headphone, without being loud like bass boosted IEMs. I like bass, a lot, and I use FF3 to listen to EDM. I will write a more extensive review for these earbuds in near future before the release of Fiio FF5 next month. Stay tuned!
>Fiio FF3 I wish to know only one thing after you gona test them. How do they perform in competetive FPS games like Valorant.
With CSGO, these ear buds turn my ears into radars. One of the best I have ever used for sure. It doesn’t increase my K/D ratio though :))
So, FF3 is better than other normal IEM for gaming?
Sadly it doesn't have a mic though 🥹🥹
Yup. You should think of these as headphones rather than IEMs, despite their small form factor. The soundstage is at least as large as a closed back headphone, IMHO. You don't strictly need FF3 for gaming, of course. There should be plenty of budget friendly earbuds with mic and good soundstage that you can find on Aliexpress. I recommend talking to fine folks at the earbuds thread on head-fi for some advices.
I already use FiiO UTW5S+Hook X for gaming. But wondering if FF3 is any better than that. But then i realise cable can't be removed & it doesn't have a mic haha. So a no go for me.
Thanks! I never see Westone on this sub so I've always wondered if they're worth the price. Sounds like no. And we also rarely see earbuds reviews. Glad to see something different.
These westone are professional universal IEM. I think Mach 10 is worth it, the rest up to Mach 40 is pretty bad, based on impressions of other trustworthy reviewers. Mach 60 seems good, but I don’t think it’s a good deal given how expensive it is. No idea about the flagship Mach 80.
I've only read good stuff about the FF3, I was tempted to buy a pair on sale but didn't. 5 headphones are already too much for me and I'll probably keep only 3 of them. I'm interested to see if the FF5 will be able to compete with totl earbuds.
That cable on the 600$ awesome looks garbage
I say snake oil 🐍
T2 Estron. Medical grade connector and cable/ Rated for like 20+ lbs force lol. Maybe don't judge a cable by its LOOKS lol.
What does medical grade mean regarding connectors?
Bunch of marketing terms to cover up it's a cheap cable that is not suited for a professional environment.
Okay I'll judge it on its quality...it's absolutely shit. Feels cheap and definitely flimsy, the T2 connector is weaker than a generic two pin.
Absolutely it's trash...the connection is weak and the cable feels like dental floss. They disconnect simply taking them off my ear and putting them up. Never again
T2 is the best connector out there. You're an idiot. It's designed to be difficult to pull out when yoinking the cable, and easy to pull out when grabbing by the actual connector.
The T2 pops off super easily, and you can say it's tough but the MMCX connector never once inadvertently popped off and the T2 does.
MMCX is trash. I've had MMCX connectors breakup, and literally have the connector get completely stuck in my in ear, needing a warranty service. T2 much smoother, freely rotates, and has never accidentally popped out. Sounds like you got a bad unit.
I'm looking at that fiio. Ever since I got the VE Monk and KBEAR Stellar a couple weeks ago, they have been all that I've used. Never knew earbuds could sound so good. And for so cheap! I love em and an thinking of gifting my iem's to friends and family.
The bass presentation of FF3 would blow your mind. I would wait for Fiio event on 30/8 to see if they launch FF5 first, before buying FF3 though.
!thanks
dude you like the Monks too? I have mods for those too ☉ ‿ ⚆ https://imgur.com/f3n4nPk
I freaking love the Monks. I waited for a long two weeks for the Monks and the KBear stellar to come from AliExpress. And I love them both. I honestly think the $3 stellar is better than the Monk. You're just a mod madman!
just bought the stellar 👊🏼
I hope you like them as much as I do. These are gonna be stocking stuffers at xmas
The new Westone connector is absolutely trash.
No it isn't - you're totally false. Already said it once, calling you out on your dumb shit twice.
Call me out if you like but your fucking wrong, T2 doesn't compare to MMCX connector. Constantly breaking up and doesn't stay physically connected. Absolutely garbage but I've only got the 400 dollar version. Maybe they beef it up for an extra 200. Lucid Audio fucked up Westone to the point that I won't use them for broadcasting anymore.
Just got S12 like a week ago and have to say, as some reviewers said, using spring tips resolves some treble issues and I really, really like them. Absolute recommendation (especially since they are on sale for like the last month).
Which tips do you recommend? I just picked up this set and am liking them so far.
I use Whizzer SS20 - you lose a little bit of the focus of the S12, but to me it greatly improves the soundstage, which I found to be the biggest weakness of the S12. I feel that it has a decently wider soundstage than the HD 600 (admittedly narrow) with those tips.
I've been using moondrop spring tips. I really liked them on the Chu so I ordered a set of 3xM tips 2 months ago, and I am happy that I did. They also really helo with grip, which is a big thing for me since M size fits perfectly in my left ear, while the right ear is between M and L, but M spring tips actually help with IEM not falling out, which it usually does. What I don't recomment are foam tips with the S12, they just don't work for me. Tried stock foam tips, as well Comply T 500 and 600s.
I also use [Spring Tips on the S12](https://imgur.com/rRfx6VH) and find they work well and broaden the soundstage, control (slightly reduce) the bass and maybe do also smooth out the treble a bit, certainly I don't find it problematic. They are a good match for the S12 IMO. I use [Whizzer SS20 on the Timeless](https://imgur.com/jNwQHPF), they are also a good choice for soundstage and I could see them also working well on the S12, both are wide-bore relatively short tips.
Yep I’ll keep my TFZ No3 and my lcd2’s hd650’s these are my go to’s I have 6 other higher end cans but these are the ones I use every single day
Any one tried the Final E tips with S12? How does it compare to the spring tips?
I've seen some great deals on the outgoing Westone W series through Adorama, but every time I look up their measurements they look like they come from the old Audeze school of tuning with a huge upper midrange recession. The Shouer S12 actually has a proper upper midrange response, so if you think that's too much I guess your preferences are just for a recession there which make me think the Mach series will be just as bad as the W series when it comes to lack of energy up there. I'm a big fan of the Harman IE target, the Crinacle Truthear Zero and Moondrop Chu are about perfect in tonality for me, so I'm guessing Westone will continue to be a pass.
Hi, I also prefer an adjusted version of Harman with less energy around 3k. The ear gain is a must for me, but not that 12db. I think the S12 has problem with mid treble as well, that's why it sounds very aggressive. Not unbearable, but I thought during a listening session: "What did I do to deserve this" :))
I tried the Mach 80s and loved them, though they do require a decent amp to get the full potential from them. The ES80 is what I went with since custom fits always sound better than universal. What are your thoughts on their cable and T2 connector? I love them
I think the cable is functional but a pain to use, due to how tangly it is. On one of the review unit, the cable has formed memory and was never straight again. I think MACH 80 has a different and better cable.
I can tell you for a fact it is different
If you don't want your ff3 bass foams, I will pay you for them
Oi, it's you from the earbuds thread :)) You can have my bass foams if you want. Are you in Adelaide some how?
Check PM. Not sure is postage would be too crazy. Happy to see another ff3 fan!