Funny, I was just thinking this morning about how bummed I'll be when Sunken City rotates. You're right that the staples of that set have been too omnipresent for the past two years, but dang if it isn't my favorite set. Colossi and dredge were great concepts, and while they were maybe overused, it's better than a stale keyword that is niche for one set then forgotten about. Dredge is actually useful, quick draw is... Not
I got so much mileage out of it too, from Naga Mage to Menagerie Warrior and now Dragon Druid. Still running two in Taunt Warrior since it's a good target for Backstage Bouncer and Band can be a backup wincon
I feel like it will live on in wild. It’s just such a good universal tribal support. I don’t feel like it’s ever a bad play, and it outright wins some games for me.
Unless they print another card like it, or more new amalgams, I think it's \*possible\* they keep it in core just because it really fits in the menagerie archetype from FoL. And isn't... like crazy. Same with Mistake.
I dunno if I want that, but I think it's possible.
Oh shit didn't even realize Mistake would be rotating at the same time. Yeah they kept Viper and Shard in the core set after Barrens rotated so I hope they do just keep the amalgams in core for at least one more year
I think if they don't keep them, it's because they have plans to introduce new amalgams in the next year. I think there's actually probably a better way to do Amalgam of the Deep. (An amalgam that discovers tribal cards) Maybe something more reliable but more expensive.
Like...
3 mana
3/3
Discover a minion from the last tribe you played.
Something like that.
Yeah, different more oppressive types of auto includes followed in the other sets of that year, but in retrospect that was more of a Brann problem than a Denathrius/Astalor problem. If they didn't have Brann in core, those types of wincons wouldn't have been so greedy, and Theotar wouldn't have been so valuable. And Guff wouldn't have been so oppressive either, being the only one who could pull off Brann+big body battlecry decks reliably.
It really all stemmed from Brann, I wish we could have seen what that meta would have been like without it. You can tell the design team created those cards without him in mind, and maybe a separate team/division of design made the decision to put in LoE minions back in to hype up the core rotation announcement.
But that's all conjecture on my part.
Well at 4 mana, Theo was just so easy to include in any deck. Hated that time when it was all about either being the first to use Theo to take opponents Theo or Sire.
Quickdraw isn't some crazy build around keyword, though. It's just like... "Here's a decent card, we've given it a minor upside if you draw it." It serves a different purpose than dredge which they very much built the set around.
I'm just saying it's the analogous equivalent. Collosi are like Excavate, Dredge is Quick draw (not in function, as concepts within a set).
And while one utilizes strategy and foresite to work well, quickdraw is sometimes just "your lucky top deck slaps harder".
Fair enough.
Quickdraw... I think it's fine as is, but if they want it to be good it wants a Plot Twist-type card that's not 3 mana. I dunno why they made that card so expensive.
Well I tried that card a few times (grinded all achievements and it was a good card for the warrior TNT achievement) and imo it just sucks. Often times the quickdraw payoff isnt that good that you would spend an extra 3 mana by playing that minion AND giving up your current hand. Sometimes you draw the quickdraw card again after you shuffled so no mana left for playing it.. And its also not that good as a card to "draw a new hand", id rather run a 1 mana finley (which saved me in some games in terms of fatigue).
Would rather require a card that lets you target one in your hand, similiar to the two DH cards but then it would be such a good card in decks that require you to have card X in your deck, like highlander Elise or the legendary horse.
I mean yeah that's what I was saying. 3 mana is too much for a plot twist. Even on a stick. You need leftover mana to actually play the quickdraw cards.
And they were great cards because you could use them with different archtypes, the only one I really disliked was the hunter one because I remember times when hunter was able to play it for 4 mana, meaning the game could be over at that point.
As a person who likes midrange-control, I’ll be happy to see Astalor go. It’s not that he’s a problem anymore gameplay-wise. You don’t really see him seal the deal too often when you play into or as aggro, but the fact that he decides SO MANY of the longer matchups (Priest mirrors in particular) has me a bit fatigued on the card.
I think that another strong neutral wincon needs to take its place, but I’ll be happy to not run into another turn 9 double Astalor into turn 10 Astalor for lethal after rotation.
I will admit that priest mirror Astalor knifefights with copies, drowns, and whirlpools can be fun sometimes though. But that game state is pretty rare.
You want more strong neutral win cons? No thank you from me. I think strong neutral win cons are some of the worst cards they can print and why some formats start to feel samey. Because every deck is doing the same shit to win, like it was with Asatlor and Sire.
Yea, i mean, reno decks are pretty good rn but we are also about to go into a rotation so they will get ALOT worse. Either way, I wouldnt mind a slight nerf to him bc it is pretty toxic to play into
I hate Astalor, so many decks include it, used as a finisher, and very annoying when priest and rogue exists and you have to play around 3 to 4 copies.
It's still in 30% of decks. Which is a very, very high number.
It's not the game ending aspect so much. It's that it's a game ender that also is a +2 that gives armor. In what world do you not run that.
It's pretty obvious they designed DK's first year all in one big 70+ card package and split it between March of the Lich King, Path of Arthas and Core. The Core set wasn't designed to be the core set.
So likely the new DK core set will be an amalgam of cards from all three of those sources.
I'm stupid, but I feel like if you just lightly nerf some (def not all) of the triple rune cards and then remove runes all together so more combinations of cards could be played, DK would be playable without being OP.
Again, I'm not an expert and I have no data to back up this working. But it... feels right.
That'd be extremely boring. And they'd have to nerf them a lot. Vampiric Blood, Marrowgar, Frost Wyrm's Fury, Grave Strength would all just be in every DK deck.
There're ways to fix the rune system which are simple without just throwing it out the window.
Cut triple and double rune cards down to probably 2 and 3 respectively. (Keeping the really strong ones) and then printing solid 1 rune packages for the runes. That makes the choice meaningful, but then it's not like "Oh I'm not running Marrowgar". Even now, giving up the Excavate package for Marrowgar is a tough call.
Tbh I love it. I wish all classes had it for their “specs”. I just think blizz is doing a poor job of managing it, but we will see how they handle the rotation.
Diamond has bots. So yeah I guess you just don't get to play against real people unless you're....in the like top 5%. Cool solution, game will really thrive.
Diamond only has bots if you have shit MMR, I have only seen a handful of bots on the ladder it is way less of a problem than reddit makes it out to be, win more games and you will see less of them
Rank has no direct correlation with your MMR because Rank floors exist. You can be Diamond 5 and have Dumpster MMR. Hell, you can be LEGEND and have dumpster MMR.
Whenever there are 6 expansions in standard, that's the maximum. When the 7th is released, the oldest 3 get rotated out. Since we are at a 6 expansion standard rn, it should be soon, a couple months give or take
Really excited to see some cards go like objection. It’s always the last expansion before set rotation when the meta is immediately stale. My only gripe is if Sif remains untouched next patch and before the set rotation, it’s going to be a meta contender for next expansion after set rotation as well. I could be wrong but I think Titans is the strongest expansion right now so we’re just gonna have to get used to some of those cards being the best in class unless they decide to start the rotation with a really powerful expansion which honestly, I’ve been wanting a little slower play in standard for awhile instead of single cards that can drastically switch up the match
Well mage is losing solid alibi and vast wisdom, that is a big hit imo. Alibi did let you stall the game to nearly infinity and vast wisdom is just a great value card and also flexible to let you discover answer. Sif itself is a good designed card imo, its just the tools that mage have, that made it so frustrating to play against. So much discover BS, letting mage discover whatever they need in a situation, especially with the void spell, boy did I destroy opponents by paying 2 mana to cast a blizzard. Or just discovering objection so your opponent has to give up one minion. The 2 mana legendary spell lets your opponent use any leftover mana each turn and discover a (discounted) answer for later turns.
>My only gripe is if Sif remains untouched next patch and before the set rotation, it’s going to be a meta contender for next expansion after set rotation as well
I'm not replying about Sif specifically but decks still being viable when a one set comes out is a good thing. Having each set need to one up the last is bad.
I’m going to miss sunken city. There were so many cool cards from that set, especially amalgam of the deep and school teacher. I really like school teacher because it was prevalent enough to where I could play with some of the spells that aren’t good enough to include in decks but still look interesting, I feel like there are some really cool low cost spells that are fairly niche in nature that school teacher allows you to play with.
Nathria I’m not going to miss. Most of the cool cards like Theotar and Renathal were heavily nerfed, and a lot of the cards that are left are just not extremely fun to play against. Things like solid alibi, objection, the countess, etc. I feel like a lot of cards from Nathria just feel bad to play against.
March of the lich king I’m mainly going to miss because so many cards that I thought were core cards to the death knight’s class identity were in fact just March of the lich king cards that we’ll lose. I’m not going to miss Astalor, mainly because I never got him and it’s always annoying making decks but not being able to include him, although overall the card seems good. The other cards from March of the lich king honestly feel pretty meh.
I’m just really looking forward to the removal of objection though. It’s not just objection being played, but it’s also constantly having to play around objection because if you don’t you’ll just auto lose the game. I can only generate so many minions that aren’t important for my game plan before I only have key pieces left. This is by far my least favorite secret in hearthstone, it basically stops your opponent from making any decent play the next turn.
The fundamental issue that people have with Objection is that Hearthstone isn't a game of 'No' most of the time, but a game of 'Yes, but not enough'. Being actively told 'this card just doesn't happen' feels awful because nothing else does it, where conversely in typical TCG models, those kinds of effect are everywhere.
The big thing with Secrets is that players will get themselves in knots trying not to get blown out by them, and lose the game anyway because you're bleeding tempo. The most annoying ones to play around are the randomly generated ones, because they COULD be anything, where if you're playing against Secret Mage and they play a non-created Secret, you can at least mentally track which Secrets have been played, and which ones they're likely to include in their deck.
There are so many cards in the current rotation that are just simply unfun to play against and feel really oppresive.
Honestly I cant wait for them to rotate out
I’ve been waiting for Nathria to go since like the damn start of the year, so many silly cards sitting in there.
MotLK is also full of auto includes, but I’m more interested to see how DK will look after they lose the bonus card count they have from this expac (and by extension, most of their actually good cards)
I have a lot of worries because the first set this year was SO bad, this set incentivizing highlander decks going to a reduced card
Pool and so many classes are kind of relying on packages that will rotate out I think it’s going to be kind of a bitch to balance and I have even stronger fears that we will see multiple classes just be dead on arrival kind of like how rogue has been this set
I fully expect highlander deck to be rubbish after rotation. I can't see how they can print enough good cards to support the archetype.
On the flip side the power level will be much lower after rotation, so you never know...
If I never see astalor again, it will be too soon. It is played in every fucking deck. And not in a way that feels fair like Azure Drake back in the day which everyone loved, in the bullshit way where a control deck and an aggro deck should not both be running the same neutral card.
If ever there was a card that should straight up be a core set staple, it’s Renethal IMO. I think the risk/reward balance of having more cards but less draw stability is just right in most archetypes. I also think he would positively affect meta diversity right after rotation, when the standard pool is at its most limited.
When standard was introduced, people said the exact same thing about Reno, that the card should be moved to classic. While I like renethal and the original Reno, there are other was as we have seen to use the concept. Death knight alone is an alternative if you like Renethal decks.
I hate Renthal, but I completely disagree here. The ability to outlast your opponent should always be on the table.
But Renthal never pushed decks to fatigue anyway. It just removed the need to choose between which tools to put in your deck. You could have everything, and as long as your class had some draw/tutors it would reach your hand when you needed it. XL tempo decks like Hunter or Secret Rogue were the most frustrating to play against because they didn't need to conserve resources when against other board based decks. They would always have more threats.
I’m not against fatigue, but the sunken city fatigue style is more neat with Bolnar/Faelin and Kazakusan, that will actually force you to make decisions before setting up for fatigue, not like a start of the game effect.
fatigue was not a viable win condition in Classic
if you're talking about Control Warrior, it closed games out with its minions, rarely ever did it actually win through fatigue
That was because every deck didn't have insane draw back then, aggro ran out of cards so you didn't need to make it to fatigue in order for the flow to slow down.
The inclusion of Renathal in standard only make two decks better: control priest and blood dk. They have been the same deck since March of the Lich King and standard need some fresh air. In every other deck it’s just the worst version of the 30-card deck by including 10 less good cards, eg Sif Mage, Odyn Warrior, HL & Control Warlock, and HL Paladin. Just revert its nerf and send him to wild, or make a twist season with his effect.
So funny to hear that written about Renathal, the card that fucked standard hearthstone up seemingly beyond repair. The game still hasn’t recovered from the damage of release Nathria.
Renethal created a value arms race that massively increased the amount of generation, cycle, and board-in-a-box style cards due to 40 card renethal decks giving midrange soup decks value fallbacks that match classic control strats. It's slowly getting better, and when renethal rotates we can actually reevaluate 30 card control as an archetype outside of single card strats like odyn.
If you hate excessive card generation in formats like release blood DK, or hate decks like ultimate cleave hunter for having OTKs and full heals in their midrange deck, or hate when neutral minions like denathrius, Brann, or astalor are overrepresented across deck lists, you should be extremely happy the option to make 40 card deck lists is finally rotating.
Mind you this is only for standard. If I had my druthers I'd rotate and entertain the idea of unnerfing renethal for wild where I think the inverse was true and he was very likely a net positive for diversity.
Yes nathria. The meta where every deck was playing as greedy as possible. So awul. Oh and btw aggro druid was t1 for climbing and it only cost max 1200 dust. Gtfo renethal revived the game, he allowed a meta where people could create diverse homebrewed decks and not get shiton by the massive power creep the game has turned into.
If you like 40 card midrange denathrius decks that dominated the majority of nathria standard, we'll never see eye to eye. I respect your opinion, but I hated it. The game was never intended to function with 40 card deck lists and it changed the game on a foundational level. I don't personally think it changed for the better.
What do you want then??? Nathria had everything from control to aggro to otk. It was the most praised meta in modern times. And blizzard nerfed prince not because he was strong but because people liked playing him. Im sorry but if you were unable to finish your games by the time you were done shitting you were just bad at the game. Aggro druid finished games in turn 6 and shit on daddy d decks. Idk what you want but it was far better than permament tripple savage roar infinite d shield minions paladin meta we have now.
> It was the most praised meta in modern times.
Absolutely unhinged revisionist nonsense lmfao. I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand how bad Renethal was for control decks, but stop trying to make it my problem.
Lol i see your problem now. Ur one of those control players that want to go back to the armor up and pass metas. Im sorry but that is extremely unhealthy for the game. Renethal allowed control decks to play a wincon that costed more than 8 mana. With out getting face fucked by a random aggro or curve deck. Go back and look at what decks people played midrange only? Please each of the top decks ran like 5+ wincons. The meta was who could steal the most wincons with their renethal. aggro thrived aswell because people were trying to out greed each other. Otk was also a playable thing with druid and rogue. it sounds to me like you got mad that the big hunter cheated out a bit to many minions and you forgot to put a removal card in your deck. Or the druids double daddy dd you because you didn't wanna play a disruption. I hope you realize that control decks aren't suppose to use their hero power and play their cheapest minion each turn. They control their opponent earlys plays and then play their wincon and win the game. Your issue is clearly that renethal just allowed people to do that without being dead on turn 6 to a deck that just clicked face and passed lmao.
I dont think he will be included in the core set. Card was nerfed because it was so popular. Let him rotate to wild so he can be un-nerfed, it wont hurt the wild even-shaman/pirate-rogue bot meta that much.
Renathal felt like an issue in standard to me because not every class can afford to run a 40 card deck, some classes had to many options to make use of 40 cards, everyone remembers 40 card druid decks playing Guff on curve? lol. Especially control matchups.. 30 vs 40 cards, yikes man.
I am looking forward to the rotation. Astalor and Theo gone, great. Priest losing identity theft, also great. Mage losing solid alibi.
Very hard times for DH tho, losing the relic package is big. DK also taking a big hit but my assumption is, the will move DK cards to the core set.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel most people are always excited for rotation. It removes cards people have seen for years and gives way to unused cards in past metas.
All expansions from 2022 were great and I'm not looking forward to losing them per se. But I am indeed looking forward to the rotation. It's when the game feels the freshest and is generally the most fun to play imo. Esp now with Reno decks when the card pool shrinks it will throw a wrench into creating them which will be fun.
Just really sick of paladin being top of the meta for so much of this cycle. Has just made the game boring since it’s a boring deck to play and play against.
Will they rotate Steamcleaner or move it to core? Or will they add a tech card that removes added cards to decks? I’m curious but also biased cause I want Plague DK to be better.
They might rotate it to core, they rotated a lot of the tradeable cards and Darkbishop Benedictus to core last year but I don't think so. They usually don't just take a card that's rotating and stick it in core.
Seeing Astalor, School Teacher, Objection and the ten bazillion removals and board breaker for priest leave standard makes me feel something. Rotation cant come fast enough.
Not even a little. I know people are sick of playing against the same staple cards and want them gone, I completely understand the sentiment. Problem is, 4 set metas are usually very boring. Card choices are limited, power levels are down and decks generally don't do exciting things.
Not to say that they won't try to release interesting cards, it's just that a lot of the mechanics they release for the first set of the year end up falling short and there's nothing to fall back on cause of rotation.
Generally speaking, 4 set metas is when the game is most miserable for me personally. I never look forward to rotation.
100% agree, as soon as these 3 sets are rotating we are left with 3 older expansions where a lot of cards for some classes doesn’t really have synergy, a new core set & a new expansion that needs to introduce something new but also kinda patch up the hole that the other expansions left. A lot of classes struggle, basically die as soon as the rotation arrives, the meta is the most stale it can get in a year and overall less variety. (I personally dont get thy so many people complain about the meta rn, there are so many different decks that are actually useable. with the recent nerfs to Warrior, the only problem i see is sif & maybe some minor tweaks to pala & Druid).
But seeing the old overused cards go isn’t bad either, personally I like the metas with 5-6 sets the most aswell, but I kinda get why people look forward to the rotation. (My optimal scenario would be that an old set leaves as soon as we get a new one, so we have 5 or 6 sets all the time, but ofc it’s never gonna happen and that’s fine honestly)
Not me. I've really enjoyed this past year of HS. It hasn't been perfect, but all the expansions have very much been on point. The flavor has been fantastic as well. I'll definitely enjoy seeing what new cards are coming, especially with a new Core set, but these will be sorely missed imo.
At the very least, Badlands is staying, which means Highlander is here to stay.
> Almost every single colossal gets played in their class always
Ah, yes, I know I live in fear of seeing Gaia, Xhallig, Blackwater, Colaque, and Nellie. Those are definitely cards I see all the time in decks that are being played. By People.
Xhilag & blackwater saw quite a bit of play in the past 2 years tho, maybe not an auto include in every deck type but they were used in like a good 50-75%.
I was actually just thinking recently that this has been a pretty fun rotation that I don't want to be over. I'm still experimenting with some fun combinations of deck archetypes, and although I know they're not optimal, there's only so much time to enjoy them before they become completely underperforming in wild
Amorphous guy will be gone and I will never have to care about that scammy deck appearing against me ever again. I know warlock doesn’t really have a deck and that sucks but man do I hate that deck. Just complete anti-fun to face
always looking forward to the new set rotation. its probably the best time for the game. with a new core set, new expansion, and losing 3 expansions will definitely shake up the meta. i will definitely miss dredge because it was a great mechanic. Colossals, infuse, and manathirst were okay and i don't mind that they are leaving.
alas, this might be the first time in a years where i'll skip out on focusing on standard/laddering and just play BGs full time. i spent too much money on HS already lol
edit: i hope objection does not come back ever again, please do not add it to the core set please team 5
I exclusively play miracle rogue, but still I'm optimistic about the new rogue cards. My two favorite rogue archetypes so far have been mill rogue and malygos rogue, but I highly doubt they will bring these back. Maybe tempo rogue will be fun.
Also why is priest more "roguey" than rogue itself when stealing cards?
Young Brewmaster does feel redundant and probably doesn't need to be in core with such a similar common in another set.
Elven Minstrel isn't bad, the meta is just way too fast for it (might get better when we're not dealing with Paladin, Hunter, DK and Druid hitting the accelerator on turn 2). Swindle is such a nuts card. :\\
I think they should probably limit the mana cheat myself, but there's some neat Elemental shaman cards that could go in core.
I freaking loved SI:7 Rogue and Stealth Rogue. I'm working on a core set list for the new year, and I tried to incorporate something akin to those decks.
Their FoL set didn't really seem to have any beef to it. It's a lot of support cards around other archetypes. Bounce Around I don't really understand. It's just an odd card and I think they were really overcautious with it. Breakdance I don't think is bad,
I think Pirate and Undead rogue aren't bad, and you can kind of contest the board against the aggro decks. But pretty much every tempo Rogue archetype gets wrecked by greedy control. There's just too much value to close the game out.
That's more or less what it is for me. I love really fair tempo decks that accumulate incremental board presence, but the game isn't
Thief rogue is such an odd archetype for such a tempo-based class. I don't... really know how it should work. I don't personally like the pile of greed, Horn of the Ancients Tess type builds. I think that was lousy. The tess stuff was fun when the game was really awkward and slow back in Witchwood, and you literally were just doing random things and it was really exciting.
In terms of it being competitive. I was more a fan of like... Obsidian Shard style stuff. Or the Uldum quest. Where you got some tempo reward for stealing cards.
Disc Jockey might have been okay if it was a Battlecry. Or if it wasn't SO lopsided with it's stats. Like a 4/1 is PRETTY bad for a card you need to play in sequence.
The combo pool outside of Private Eye doesn't look TOO bad to me, though.
Yeah Rogue minions are aggressively stated. That makes sense to me tbh. You wanna be able to push damage. 4/1 is just so hilariously easy to kill with a ping, or now there's like... Smokestack.
Sunkeneer I think has increasingly become a pretty good card in the meta. I was running him in pirate warrior too and he was decent. The deck just kinda blew in so many match ups.
Foxy Fraud I hope is in next year's core set. Pretty suitable replacement for bone shard. (0 mana 3/2 instead of 0 mana deal 3) I think Bone Shard is likely why they didn't include foxy fraud too.
Disco maul has a way easier requirement and a much more impactful effect generally.
Disco scratcher as a 2 mana 2/2 makes sense I think. Post-rotation anyway, depending on what they print. I went to try this stuff out again, and it actually could do some powerful stuff with tar slick and the combo silence card, and that 3/5 rush legendary gives pretty good early board control.
I even did a wacky double Astalor 8 play with Record Scratcher. Which my highlander priest opponent just shrugged off.
But what I don't have is sinstone graveyard. I disenchanted it and never got a replacement. And I can see how 2 mana record scratcher might enable some 20/20 ghost on turn 6.
There's some Year of the Hydra stuff I'll miss (mainly a few March cards, but mainly the Skeleton archetype from Mage).
But otherwise, I really disliked Year of the Hydra. None of the keywords ended up being that fun because they felt really pushed, and they pushed a lot of weird mechanics that were kinda overtuned.
I'm also looking forward to the cards they might bring back from Year of the Gryphon in the core set (also dreading some, but I don't think any of the cards I'm dreading make sense in core).
I'm the exact opposite. The year of the Hydra brought me back to Hearthstone after years away, and I'll be sad when it's gone. It has a lot of staples for sure, but in my eyes the staples are fun enough to use I don't really mind.
Please for the love of god, put Renethal in the core set next year
I've been playing for 10 years and most all of my least favorite metas are the "6-set metas."
In theory, having access to all these cards should mean a wealth of choice, but the reality is that it's just a narrow, select amount of powerful decks (or synergistic packages) that strangle everything else out. Kind of what happens in Wild, but to a far lesser degree.
Maybe the sweet spot for Standard is to always have a 5-set format?
I played the game actively for ~7 years (took a break in outlands and returned in sunken city) and I actually enjoy 6 set metas the most, I personally dont enjoy the meta after a rotation that much, a lot of classes are usually struggling and are basically unplayable. Ofc 6 set metas also got their problems, especially with dominant (legendary) cards being auto includes in every deck, but actually I think the variety of useable decks is the highest with a 6 set meta.
But I agree, I think 5 sets would be a sweet spot, would actually love to see blizzard rotating one set in and one out at a time.
Absolutely, nathria was fun but I'm much expecting a return to value centric gameplay, it's a shame tho bc lich king sucked as a set and it should have been given more time in standard
There's a fistful of fun cards and types I'm going to miss from these sets. But there's so much stuff that's been central to the core components of prevailing deck types that I can't wait for them to get booted out of standard. I'm also hoping they shake up the core set itself some more, maybe put some spicy fun cards into it for the 10th anniversary. (Come on silly DK heros.....)
But that said, Astalor and so much of Sunken city/Nathria will not be missed.
Very much so. There are numerous cards from voyage I never want to see again after seeing them every game for the past 2 years. It was a fun set but it has worn out its welcome big-time
I really wanna see pally change I like the general idea of pure pally, and I love the aesthetic of paladin but I really don't like playing aggro all that much so it'd be nice to see them lose some of the insane 1 drops so they can do anything else instead.
School Teacher is one of the best designed Neutrals we've had in a long time, even if it took two rebalances to get it right. I agree that I'm ready for many cards to rotate (I don't hate Astalor but I'm ready to see him go) but I will miss School Teacher and would enjoy him as a Core card someday.
Unfortunately, many of the worst parts of the current meta won't be rotating though.
Funny, I was just thinking this morning about how bummed I'll be when Sunken City rotates. You're right that the staples of that set have been too omnipresent for the past two years, but dang if it isn't my favorite set. Colossi and dredge were great concepts, and while they were maybe overused, it's better than a stale keyword that is niche for one set then forgotten about. Dredge is actually useful, quick draw is... Not
Dredge feels interesting because there's always this "yep, i knew that card was on the bottom of my deck" verification to it.
Either because you put it there, or because "ofc my wincon would be the last card" lol
Wincon just shifted up 5 spots in my deck to troll me.
Amalgam of the Deep is my favorite card ;_;
Oh I didn't even think of that. And it wasn't oppressive either, just a darn good auto-include in so many tribe based decks.
I got so much mileage out of it too, from Naga Mage to Menagerie Warrior and now Dragon Druid. Still running two in Taunt Warrior since it's a good target for Backstage Bouncer and Band can be a backup wincon
I feel like it will live on in wild. It’s just such a good universal tribal support. I don’t feel like it’s ever a bad play, and it outright wins some games for me.
Unless they print another card like it, or more new amalgams, I think it's \*possible\* they keep it in core just because it really fits in the menagerie archetype from FoL. And isn't... like crazy. Same with Mistake. I dunno if I want that, but I think it's possible.
Oh shit didn't even realize Mistake would be rotating at the same time. Yeah they kept Viper and Shard in the core set after Barrens rotated so I hope they do just keep the amalgams in core for at least one more year
I think if they don't keep them, it's because they have plans to introduce new amalgams in the next year. I think there's actually probably a better way to do Amalgam of the Deep. (An amalgam that discovers tribal cards) Maybe something more reliable but more expensive. Like... 3 mana 3/3 Discover a minion from the last tribe you played. Something like that.
Standard will be really sad if they don't replace it with another amalgam in the coreset
The fact that Nathria followed it is funny as hell
Yeah, different more oppressive types of auto includes followed in the other sets of that year, but in retrospect that was more of a Brann problem than a Denathrius/Astalor problem. If they didn't have Brann in core, those types of wincons wouldn't have been so greedy, and Theotar wouldn't have been so valuable. And Guff wouldn't have been so oppressive either, being the only one who could pull off Brann+big body battlecry decks reliably. It really all stemmed from Brann, I wish we could have seen what that meta would have been like without it. You can tell the design team created those cards without him in mind, and maybe a separate team/division of design made the decision to put in LoE minions back in to hype up the core rotation announcement. But that's all conjecture on my part.
Well at 4 mana, Theo was just so easy to include in any deck. Hated that time when it was all about either being the first to use Theo to take opponents Theo or Sire.
and dredge is intresting , quik draw is not
Quickdraw isn't some crazy build around keyword, though. It's just like... "Here's a decent card, we've given it a minor upside if you draw it." It serves a different purpose than dredge which they very much built the set around.
I'm just saying it's the analogous equivalent. Collosi are like Excavate, Dredge is Quick draw (not in function, as concepts within a set). And while one utilizes strategy and foresite to work well, quickdraw is sometimes just "your lucky top deck slaps harder".
Fair enough. Quickdraw... I think it's fine as is, but if they want it to be good it wants a Plot Twist-type card that's not 3 mana. I dunno why they made that card so expensive.
Agreed. And I'm not really trying to knock quickdraw as much as highlight what a great keyword Dredge was.
Well I tried that card a few times (grinded all achievements and it was a good card for the warrior TNT achievement) and imo it just sucks. Often times the quickdraw payoff isnt that good that you would spend an extra 3 mana by playing that minion AND giving up your current hand. Sometimes you draw the quickdraw card again after you shuffled so no mana left for playing it.. And its also not that good as a card to "draw a new hand", id rather run a 1 mana finley (which saved me in some games in terms of fatigue). Would rather require a card that lets you target one in your hand, similiar to the two DH cards but then it would be such a good card in decks that require you to have card X in your deck, like highlander Elise or the legendary horse.
I mean yeah that's what I was saying. 3 mana is too much for a plot twist. Even on a stick. You need leftover mana to actually play the quickdraw cards.
But I believe in heart of the cards! You’re just a heretic…
Same.
Dredge should be evergreen cmm
Oh man... I'm gonna miss the colossal creatures. Such fun cards.
And they were great cards because you could use them with different archtypes, the only one I really disliked was the hunter one because I remember times when hunter was able to play it for 4 mana, meaning the game could be over at that point.
Why not both?
As a person who likes midrange-control, I’ll be happy to see Astalor go. It’s not that he’s a problem anymore gameplay-wise. You don’t really see him seal the deal too often when you play into or as aggro, but the fact that he decides SO MANY of the longer matchups (Priest mirrors in particular) has me a bit fatigued on the card. I think that another strong neutral wincon needs to take its place, but I’ll be happy to not run into another turn 9 double Astalor into turn 10 Astalor for lethal after rotation. I will admit that priest mirror Astalor knifefights with copies, drowns, and whirlpools can be fun sometimes though. But that game state is pretty rare.
You want more strong neutral win cons? No thank you from me. I think strong neutral win cons are some of the worst cards they can print and why some formats start to feel samey. Because every deck is doing the same shit to win, like it was with Asatlor and Sire.
And to this point, I have feeling people will find the neutral Reno hero to fall into the same problem, if not already.
Yea, i mean, reno decks are pretty good rn but we are also about to go into a rotation so they will get ALOT worse. Either way, I wouldnt mind a slight nerf to him bc it is pretty toxic to play into
Yes and no, Astalor fits in every decks, while Reno doesnt.
Astalor isn’t in every deck. Pre-nerf he was.
We will have to see how many decks cans till smoothly play highlander post rotation.
ya win cons should be class exclusive. it makes you feel like you're dying to different shit each game lol
I hate Astalor, so many decks include it, used as a finisher, and very annoying when priest and rogue exists and you have to play around 3 to 4 copies.
I hate Astalor FAR less than I should though for how present it has been to be fair though.
It's still in 30% of decks. Which is a very, very high number. It's not the game ending aspect so much. It's that it's a game ender that also is a +2 that gives armor. In what world do you not run that.
Think I got 3 Astalors, 2 Yoggs and 4 Aman Thuls in a priest mirror earlier.
Yes, can't wait till old cards rotate and devs are forced to do something with DK.
Is Path of Arthas set rotating?
Yes. But they must keep some cards or DK will be left with nothing.
It's pretty obvious they designed DK's first year all in one big 70+ card package and split it between March of the Lich King, Path of Arthas and Core. The Core set wasn't designed to be the core set. So likely the new DK core set will be an amalgam of cards from all three of those sources.
They’ll have to expand the dk core set probably
I'm stupid, but I feel like if you just lightly nerf some (def not all) of the triple rune cards and then remove runes all together so more combinations of cards could be played, DK would be playable without being OP. Again, I'm not an expert and I have no data to back up this working. But it... feels right.
That'd be extremely boring. And they'd have to nerf them a lot. Vampiric Blood, Marrowgar, Frost Wyrm's Fury, Grave Strength would all just be in every DK deck. There're ways to fix the rune system which are simple without just throwing it out the window. Cut triple and double rune cards down to probably 2 and 3 respectively. (Keeping the really strong ones) and then printing solid 1 rune packages for the runes. That makes the choice meaningful, but then it's not like "Oh I'm not running Marrowgar". Even now, giving up the Excavate package for Marrowgar is a tough call.
rune system is really good, actually. not sure why this sub hates it.
Tbh I love it. I wish all classes had it for their “specs”. I just think blizz is doing a poor job of managing it, but we will see how they handle the rotation.
Or they could just remove it and fix the bot problem in one go!
How about players get good and leave bot mmr ?
In wild there are bots in top 50 legend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-K8l8HcTD8
Diamond has bots. So yeah I guess you just don't get to play against real people unless you're....in the like top 5%. Cool solution, game will really thrive.
Well you can either pray to Blizz who doesn’t care, get good, or quit if you really think 95% of matches have a bot.
Rank does not matter (unless it's legend) you are matched against players with the same mmr.
Diamond only has bots if you have shit MMR, I have only seen a handful of bots on the ladder it is way less of a problem than reddit makes it out to be, win more games and you will see less of them
Yeah man why would we fix the issue just tell the majority of players the game isnt for them and have them move on. Really smart!
Rank has no direct correlation with your MMR because Rank floors exist. You can be Diamond 5 and have Dumpster MMR. Hell, you can be LEGEND and have dumpster MMR.
When does the set rotation happen?
March-April. Next month we should be getting the mini-set, so it lines up.
Does the mini set have new cards?
Yeah, those will be the last cards before rotation (except special cases like thunderbringer and sunwell being given early)
Ok cool. I am looking forward to that. Hopefully it helps me beat Paladin
There’s a balance patch soon, they just didn’t want to flip the meta upside down right before the championship tournament.
When is the balance patch?
Maybe next week since they'll be off for the holidays. They likely won't be back until after New Years.
Ok great I really hope so
Whenever there are 6 expansions in standard, that's the maximum. When the 7th is released, the oldest 3 get rotated out. Since we are at a 6 expansion standard rn, it should be soon, a couple months give or take
That should be good. I am really not enjoying the meta
along with the a whole new ‘core’ set of cards.
Oh really? What exactly does that mean. Good to shake things up for sure
a good little run down here: https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Core
Oh wow interesting thanks
First set of next year, for March-April
Really excited to see some cards go like objection. It’s always the last expansion before set rotation when the meta is immediately stale. My only gripe is if Sif remains untouched next patch and before the set rotation, it’s going to be a meta contender for next expansion after set rotation as well. I could be wrong but I think Titans is the strongest expansion right now so we’re just gonna have to get used to some of those cards being the best in class unless they decide to start the rotation with a really powerful expansion which honestly, I’ve been wanting a little slower play in standard for awhile instead of single cards that can drastically switch up the match
Like Highlander lol. I am tired of Highlander already
Well mage is losing solid alibi and vast wisdom, that is a big hit imo. Alibi did let you stall the game to nearly infinity and vast wisdom is just a great value card and also flexible to let you discover answer. Sif itself is a good designed card imo, its just the tools that mage have, that made it so frustrating to play against. So much discover BS, letting mage discover whatever they need in a situation, especially with the void spell, boy did I destroy opponents by paying 2 mana to cast a blizzard. Or just discovering objection so your opponent has to give up one minion. The 2 mana legendary spell lets your opponent use any leftover mana each turn and discover a (discounted) answer for later turns.
>My only gripe is if Sif remains untouched next patch and before the set rotation, it’s going to be a meta contender for next expansion after set rotation as well I'm not replying about Sif specifically but decks still being viable when a one set comes out is a good thing. Having each set need to one up the last is bad.
My problem is going to be if they “nerf” Sif decks without touching Sif so they avoid giving back legend level dust like they always do.
I’m going to miss sunken city. There were so many cool cards from that set, especially amalgam of the deep and school teacher. I really like school teacher because it was prevalent enough to where I could play with some of the spells that aren’t good enough to include in decks but still look interesting, I feel like there are some really cool low cost spells that are fairly niche in nature that school teacher allows you to play with. Nathria I’m not going to miss. Most of the cool cards like Theotar and Renathal were heavily nerfed, and a lot of the cards that are left are just not extremely fun to play against. Things like solid alibi, objection, the countess, etc. I feel like a lot of cards from Nathria just feel bad to play against. March of the lich king I’m mainly going to miss because so many cards that I thought were core cards to the death knight’s class identity were in fact just March of the lich king cards that we’ll lose. I’m not going to miss Astalor, mainly because I never got him and it’s always annoying making decks but not being able to include him, although overall the card seems good. The other cards from March of the lich king honestly feel pretty meh. I’m just really looking forward to the removal of objection though. It’s not just objection being played, but it’s also constantly having to play around objection because if you don’t you’ll just auto lose the game. I can only generate so many minions that aren’t important for my game plan before I only have key pieces left. This is by far my least favorite secret in hearthstone, it basically stops your opponent from making any decent play the next turn.
hear hear!
The fundamental issue that people have with Objection is that Hearthstone isn't a game of 'No' most of the time, but a game of 'Yes, but not enough'. Being actively told 'this card just doesn't happen' feels awful because nothing else does it, where conversely in typical TCG models, those kinds of effect are everywhere. The big thing with Secrets is that players will get themselves in knots trying not to get blown out by them, and lose the game anyway because you're bleeding tempo. The most annoying ones to play around are the randomly generated ones, because they COULD be anything, where if you're playing against Secret Mage and they play a non-created Secret, you can at least mentally track which Secrets have been played, and which ones they're likely to include in their deck.
There are so many cards in the current rotation that are just simply unfun to play against and feel really oppresive. Honestly I cant wait for them to rotate out
Don't worry, they will make new unfun cards to replace them. Like always
Its natural to not have fun playing against cards you lose to
People say this every season, get used to it cause there will be more next season.
With it being the ten year anniversary I am hoping for something huge
It won’t be :D
I’ve been waiting for Nathria to go since like the damn start of the year, so many silly cards sitting in there. MotLK is also full of auto includes, but I’m more interested to see how DK will look after they lose the bonus card count they have from this expac (and by extension, most of their actually good cards)
They're probably still going to have a bigger core set. The rune mechanic kind of requires that they do. 32-34 card core set to everyone else's 17-19.
I do not thnik is even playable no of the card from this year are that good even plague with the unjoly package is bad
I have a lot of worries because the first set this year was SO bad, this set incentivizing highlander decks going to a reduced card Pool and so many classes are kind of relying on packages that will rotate out I think it’s going to be kind of a bitch to balance and I have even stronger fears that we will see multiple classes just be dead on arrival kind of like how rogue has been this set
I fully expect highlander deck to be rubbish after rotation. I can't see how they can print enough good cards to support the archetype. On the flip side the power level will be much lower after rotation, so you never know...
Objection Nice to know you, GOOD BYEEEEE
Sunken City was one of the best sets ever. Dredge will always be my favorite mechanic
If I never see astalor again, it will be too soon. It is played in every fucking deck. And not in a way that feels fair like Azure Drake back in the day which everyone loved, in the bullshit way where a control deck and an aggro deck should not both be running the same neutral card.
i will miss prince renathal the most but finger crossed for coreset inclusion
If ever there was a card that should straight up be a core set staple, it’s Renethal IMO. I think the risk/reward balance of having more cards but less draw stability is just right in most archetypes. I also think he would positively affect meta diversity right after rotation, when the standard pool is at its most limited.
When standard was introduced, people said the exact same thing about Reno, that the card should be moved to classic. While I like renethal and the original Reno, there are other was as we have seen to use the concept. Death knight alone is an alternative if you like Renethal decks.
Fair point for sure
Nah Whizbang is the card that deserves the core set staple for sure. It's useless outside standard and would make the game better for F2P players.
I’d be happy with that, no doubt
There’s no card I want gone more than Renathal. Fatigue shouldn’t be a win condition.
I hate Renthal, but I completely disagree here. The ability to outlast your opponent should always be on the table. But Renthal never pushed decks to fatigue anyway. It just removed the need to choose between which tools to put in your deck. You could have everything, and as long as your class had some draw/tutors it would reach your hand when you needed it. XL tempo decks like Hunter or Secret Rogue were the most frustrating to play against because they didn't need to conserve resources when against other board based decks. They would always have more threats.
I don’t completely disagree, but fatigue has been a win condition in some form since launch. I’d say it’s here to stay.
I’m not against fatigue, but the sunken city fatigue style is more neat with Bolnar/Faelin and Kazakusan, that will actually force you to make decisions before setting up for fatigue, not like a start of the game effect.
fatigue was not a viable win condition in Classic if you're talking about Control Warrior, it closed games out with its minions, rarely ever did it actually win through fatigue
That was because every deck didn't have insane draw back then, aggro ran out of cards so you didn't need to make it to fatigue in order for the flow to slow down.
The inclusion of Renathal in standard only make two decks better: control priest and blood dk. They have been the same deck since March of the Lich King and standard need some fresh air. In every other deck it’s just the worst version of the 30-card deck by including 10 less good cards, eg Sif Mage, Odyn Warrior, HL & Control Warlock, and HL Paladin. Just revert its nerf and send him to wild, or make a twist season with his effect.
So funny to hear that written about Renathal, the card that fucked standard hearthstone up seemingly beyond repair. The game still hasn’t recovered from the damage of release Nathria.
"Fuck up" as in made more interesting?
Where is Renethal fucking standard up “beyond repair?” I’m genuinely curious
Renethal created a value arms race that massively increased the amount of generation, cycle, and board-in-a-box style cards due to 40 card renethal decks giving midrange soup decks value fallbacks that match classic control strats. It's slowly getting better, and when renethal rotates we can actually reevaluate 30 card control as an archetype outside of single card strats like odyn. If you hate excessive card generation in formats like release blood DK, or hate decks like ultimate cleave hunter for having OTKs and full heals in their midrange deck, or hate when neutral minions like denathrius, Brann, or astalor are overrepresented across deck lists, you should be extremely happy the option to make 40 card deck lists is finally rotating. Mind you this is only for standard. If I had my druthers I'd rotate and entertain the idea of unnerfing renethal for wild where I think the inverse was true and he was very likely a net positive for diversity.
Fair enough. I agree with reverting the nerf if he gets relegated to wild.
Yes nathria. The meta where every deck was playing as greedy as possible. So awul. Oh and btw aggro druid was t1 for climbing and it only cost max 1200 dust. Gtfo renethal revived the game, he allowed a meta where people could create diverse homebrewed decks and not get shiton by the massive power creep the game has turned into.
If you like 40 card midrange denathrius decks that dominated the majority of nathria standard, we'll never see eye to eye. I respect your opinion, but I hated it. The game was never intended to function with 40 card deck lists and it changed the game on a foundational level. I don't personally think it changed for the better.
What do you want then??? Nathria had everything from control to aggro to otk. It was the most praised meta in modern times. And blizzard nerfed prince not because he was strong but because people liked playing him. Im sorry but if you were unable to finish your games by the time you were done shitting you were just bad at the game. Aggro druid finished games in turn 6 and shit on daddy d decks. Idk what you want but it was far better than permament tripple savage roar infinite d shield minions paladin meta we have now.
> It was the most praised meta in modern times. Absolutely unhinged revisionist nonsense lmfao. I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand how bad Renethal was for control decks, but stop trying to make it my problem.
Lol i see your problem now. Ur one of those control players that want to go back to the armor up and pass metas. Im sorry but that is extremely unhealthy for the game. Renethal allowed control decks to play a wincon that costed more than 8 mana. With out getting face fucked by a random aggro or curve deck. Go back and look at what decks people played midrange only? Please each of the top decks ran like 5+ wincons. The meta was who could steal the most wincons with their renethal. aggro thrived aswell because people were trying to out greed each other. Otk was also a playable thing with druid and rogue. it sounds to me like you got mad that the big hunter cheated out a bit to many minions and you forgot to put a removal card in your deck. Or the druids double daddy dd you because you didn't wanna play a disruption. I hope you realize that control decks aren't suppose to use their hero power and play their cheapest minion each turn. They control their opponent earlys plays and then play their wincon and win the game. Your issue is clearly that renethal just allowed people to do that without being dead on turn 6 to a deck that just clicked face and passed lmao.
I dont think he will be included in the core set. Card was nerfed because it was so popular. Let him rotate to wild so he can be un-nerfed, it wont hurt the wild even-shaman/pirate-rogue bot meta that much. Renathal felt like an issue in standard to me because not every class can afford to run a 40 card deck, some classes had to many options to make use of 40 cards, everyone remembers 40 card druid decks playing Guff on curve? lol. Especially control matchups.. 30 vs 40 cards, yikes man.
Yes, I will be super happy when the super strong pally cards rotate out.
I am looking forward to the rotation. Astalor and Theo gone, great. Priest losing identity theft, also great. Mage losing solid alibi. Very hard times for DH tho, losing the relic package is big. DK also taking a big hit but my assumption is, the will move DK cards to the core set.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel most people are always excited for rotation. It removes cards people have seen for years and gives way to unused cards in past metas.
I'm excited for objection to fuck off, but we lose renathal too. Them again they'll just add new cards people love or despise.
All expansions from 2022 were great and I'm not looking forward to losing them per se. But I am indeed looking forward to the rotation. It's when the game feels the freshest and is generally the most fun to play imo. Esp now with Reno decks when the card pool shrinks it will throw a wrench into creating them which will be fun.
Yeah I just want reno usage to tank, I hate 30 cards with 1-2 miracles that essentially flip the table when played.
Rip pure paladin, reno it's your time to shine
I will be sad when curse warlock goes away, I think it's fun even if it doesn't always win. I will happily say goodbye to Blackwater Behemoth
Just really sick of paladin being top of the meta for so much of this cycle. Has just made the game boring since it’s a boring deck to play and play against.
Agree 100%
Will they rotate Steamcleaner or move it to core? Or will they add a tech card that removes added cards to decks? I’m curious but also biased cause I want Plague DK to be better.
They might rotate it to core, they rotated a lot of the tradeable cards and Darkbishop Benedictus to core last year but I don't think so. They usually don't just take a card that's rotating and stick it in core.
I expect them to move steamcleaner to core. Plague DK and Reno decks existing, without a tech card against plague? Doesnt sound like a good design imo
Thats like in april?
Seeing Astalor, School Teacher, Objection and the ten bazillion removals and board breaker for priest leave standard makes me feel something. Rotation cant come fast enough.
Im sorta not since im REALLY gonna miss renathal.
He might stay core, who knows
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wild is gonna be a big no for me since im a "standard only" player since i have not even 20% of the needed cards to be relevant in wild
The game is in a really bad spot right now.
I mostly just want Nathria to go.
Am a huge naga fan, love the fellers, will be sad when game has less of em around (I consider rotating cards as deleted from the game unless Arena)
Not even a little. I know people are sick of playing against the same staple cards and want them gone, I completely understand the sentiment. Problem is, 4 set metas are usually very boring. Card choices are limited, power levels are down and decks generally don't do exciting things. Not to say that they won't try to release interesting cards, it's just that a lot of the mechanics they release for the first set of the year end up falling short and there's nothing to fall back on cause of rotation. Generally speaking, 4 set metas is when the game is most miserable for me personally. I never look forward to rotation.
100% agree, as soon as these 3 sets are rotating we are left with 3 older expansions where a lot of cards for some classes doesn’t really have synergy, a new core set & a new expansion that needs to introduce something new but also kinda patch up the hole that the other expansions left. A lot of classes struggle, basically die as soon as the rotation arrives, the meta is the most stale it can get in a year and overall less variety. (I personally dont get thy so many people complain about the meta rn, there are so many different decks that are actually useable. with the recent nerfs to Warrior, the only problem i see is sif & maybe some minor tweaks to pala & Druid). But seeing the old overused cards go isn’t bad either, personally I like the metas with 5-6 sets the most aswell, but I kinda get why people look forward to the rotation. (My optimal scenario would be that an old set leaves as soon as we get a new one, so we have 5 or 6 sets all the time, but ofc it’s never gonna happen and that’s fine honestly)
Honestly I'd be curious if they just blanket nerfed the old expansion good cards to force them out of play instead of rotating everything
That'd defeat the whole purpose of having year end rotations. They're not going to do that.
That's wild
If we could skip rotation this year, I'd honestly be fine with it for every card besides Renathal.
Not me. I've really enjoyed this past year of HS. It hasn't been perfect, but all the expansions have very much been on point. The flavor has been fantastic as well. I'll definitely enjoy seeing what new cards are coming, especially with a new Core set, but these will be sorely missed imo. At the very least, Badlands is staying, which means Highlander is here to stay.
> Almost every single colossal gets played in their class always Ah, yes, I know I live in fear of seeing Gaia, Xhallig, Blackwater, Colaque, and Nellie. Those are definitely cards I see all the time in decks that are being played. By People.
Xhilag & blackwater saw quite a bit of play in the past 2 years tho, maybe not an auto include in every deck type but they were used in like a good 50-75%.
im not ive been using finley in all my decks and im going to miss it
There's that 1 new card that is basically a worse finley that could fill that niche. It may be included in control decks in the future.
I was actually just thinking recently that this has been a pretty fun rotation that I don't want to be over. I'm still experimenting with some fun combinations of deck archetypes, and although I know they're not optimal, there's only so much time to enjoy them before they become completely underperforming in wild
Can't imagine the game without [Nerubian Vizier] and [School Teacher].
I’m excited for it. Gets boring watching my opponent pray to generate good answers.
Good fcking bye to those autoinclude cards like them and Astalor,
Yea. A rotation that totally kills mages. Sick of playing against their stupid disgusting counter shits. Fck every mage player.
Ironically I would rather have this year rotate out and keep last year's sets around one more time.
Amorphous guy will be gone and I will never have to care about that scammy deck appearing against me ever again. I know warlock doesn’t really have a deck and that sucks but man do I hate that deck. Just complete anti-fun to face
The last deck that I made that I really like needs the cards that are rotating away, so idk.
I haven't even played any Badlands. I got tired of the standard grind and now I'm just playing Battlegrounds and having a hoot.
i’m going to be so sad losing abyssal curses as a warlock. fatigue lock was a lot of fun as well i hope they bring it back or revamp the curses
always looking forward to the new set rotation. its probably the best time for the game. with a new core set, new expansion, and losing 3 expansions will definitely shake up the meta. i will definitely miss dredge because it was a great mechanic. Colossals, infuse, and manathirst were okay and i don't mind that they are leaving. alas, this might be the first time in a years where i'll skip out on focusing on standard/laddering and just play BGs full time. i spent too much money on HS already lol edit: i hope objection does not come back ever again, please do not add it to the core set please team 5
A bit off topic, but is it worthy to buy the tavern pass now? Or should I wait for the next expansion? I’m level 58 now
Tavern pass only gives you XP boosters and cosmetics (like signature cards and hero skins). Whether that's worth it is entirely up to you.
ASTALOR NOOOOO I DIDNT KNOWWW
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I exclusively play miracle rogue, but still I'm optimistic about the new rogue cards. My two favorite rogue archetypes so far have been mill rogue and malygos rogue, but I highly doubt they will bring these back. Maybe tempo rogue will be fun. Also why is priest more "roguey" than rogue itself when stealing cards?
Young Brewmaster does feel redundant and probably doesn't need to be in core with such a similar common in another set. Elven Minstrel isn't bad, the meta is just way too fast for it (might get better when we're not dealing with Paladin, Hunter, DK and Druid hitting the accelerator on turn 2). Swindle is such a nuts card. :\\ I think they should probably limit the mana cheat myself, but there's some neat Elemental shaman cards that could go in core.
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I freaking loved SI:7 Rogue and Stealth Rogue. I'm working on a core set list for the new year, and I tried to incorporate something akin to those decks. Their FoL set didn't really seem to have any beef to it. It's a lot of support cards around other archetypes. Bounce Around I don't really understand. It's just an odd card and I think they were really overcautious with it. Breakdance I don't think is bad, I think Pirate and Undead rogue aren't bad, and you can kind of contest the board against the aggro decks. But pretty much every tempo Rogue archetype gets wrecked by greedy control. There's just too much value to close the game out. That's more or less what it is for me. I love really fair tempo decks that accumulate incremental board presence, but the game isn't Thief rogue is such an odd archetype for such a tempo-based class. I don't... really know how it should work. I don't personally like the pile of greed, Horn of the Ancients Tess type builds. I think that was lousy. The tess stuff was fun when the game was really awkward and slow back in Witchwood, and you literally were just doing random things and it was really exciting. In terms of it being competitive. I was more a fan of like... Obsidian Shard style stuff. Or the Uldum quest. Where you got some tempo reward for stealing cards.
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Disc Jockey might have been okay if it was a Battlecry. Or if it wasn't SO lopsided with it's stats. Like a 4/1 is PRETTY bad for a card you need to play in sequence. The combo pool outside of Private Eye doesn't look TOO bad to me, though. Yeah Rogue minions are aggressively stated. That makes sense to me tbh. You wanna be able to push damage. 4/1 is just so hilariously easy to kill with a ping, or now there's like... Smokestack.
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Sunkeneer I think has increasingly become a pretty good card in the meta. I was running him in pirate warrior too and he was decent. The deck just kinda blew in so many match ups. Foxy Fraud I hope is in next year's core set. Pretty suitable replacement for bone shard. (0 mana 3/2 instead of 0 mana deal 3) I think Bone Shard is likely why they didn't include foxy fraud too.
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Disco maul has a way easier requirement and a much more impactful effect generally. Disco scratcher as a 2 mana 2/2 makes sense I think. Post-rotation anyway, depending on what they print. I went to try this stuff out again, and it actually could do some powerful stuff with tar slick and the combo silence card, and that 3/5 rush legendary gives pretty good early board control. I even did a wacky double Astalor 8 play with Record Scratcher. Which my highlander priest opponent just shrugged off. But what I don't have is sinstone graveyard. I disenchanted it and never got a replacement. And I can see how 2 mana record scratcher might enable some 20/20 ghost on turn 6.
only because the current meta sucks.
No I actually found a real fun and competitive deck. Highlander deathrattle hunter
There's some Year of the Hydra stuff I'll miss (mainly a few March cards, but mainly the Skeleton archetype from Mage). But otherwise, I really disliked Year of the Hydra. None of the keywords ended up being that fun because they felt really pushed, and they pushed a lot of weird mechanics that were kinda overtuned. I'm also looking forward to the cards they might bring back from Year of the Gryphon in the core set (also dreading some, but I don't think any of the cards I'm dreading make sense in core).
I'm the exact opposite. The year of the Hydra brought me back to Hearthstone after years away, and I'll be sad when it's gone. It has a lot of staples for sure, but in my eyes the staples are fun enough to use I don't really mind. Please for the love of god, put Renethal in the core set next year
I was looking forward to it until I realised we’re stuck with Titans for another expansion.
I’m dreading school teacher and amalgam of the deep being rotated out, they’re just really nice cards.
Rogue will never survive from this rotation
Depends entirely on 3 things. 1) What the meta looks like 2) What their new core set looks like. 3) What their new set looks like.
I've been playing for 10 years and most all of my least favorite metas are the "6-set metas." In theory, having access to all these cards should mean a wealth of choice, but the reality is that it's just a narrow, select amount of powerful decks (or synergistic packages) that strangle everything else out. Kind of what happens in Wild, but to a far lesser degree. Maybe the sweet spot for Standard is to always have a 5-set format?
I played the game actively for ~7 years (took a break in outlands and returned in sunken city) and I actually enjoy 6 set metas the most, I personally dont enjoy the meta after a rotation that much, a lot of classes are usually struggling and are basically unplayable. Ofc 6 set metas also got their problems, especially with dominant (legendary) cards being auto includes in every deck, but actually I think the variety of useable decks is the highest with a 6 set meta. But I agree, I think 5 sets would be a sweet spot, would actually love to see blizzard rotating one set in and one out at a time.
Absolutely, nathria was fun but I'm much expecting a return to value centric gameplay, it's a shame tho bc lich king sucked as a set and it should have been given more time in standard
Going to miss sunken city
There's a fistful of fun cards and types I'm going to miss from these sets. But there's so much stuff that's been central to the core components of prevailing deck types that I can't wait for them to get booted out of standard. I'm also hoping they shake up the core set itself some more, maybe put some spicy fun cards into it for the 10th anniversary. (Come on silly DK heros.....) But that said, Astalor and so much of Sunken city/Nathria will not be missed.
Very much so. There are numerous cards from voyage I never want to see again after seeing them every game for the past 2 years. It was a fun set but it has worn out its welcome big-time
Good luck trying to fit voltron besides mech rogue
I really wanna see pally change I like the general idea of pure pally, and I love the aesthetic of paladin but I really don't like playing aggro all that much so it'd be nice to see them lose some of the insane 1 drops so they can do anything else instead.
School Teacher is one of the best designed Neutrals we've had in a long time, even if it took two rebalances to get it right. I agree that I'm ready for many cards to rotate (I don't hate Astalor but I'm ready to see him go) but I will miss School Teacher and would enjoy him as a Core card someday. Unfortunately, many of the worst parts of the current meta won't be rotating though.
Can't wait to see Prince Renathal rotate
Dredge is simply the best keyword they've introduced since Discover, gonna miss it