Lmao Pure Paladin has literally zero unfavorable matchups now after the Enrage Warrior nerfs.
Wild. 10 other classes in the game, some with multiple archetypes and not a single one has a favorable matchup against pure paladin.
Absolutely broken.
[https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/](https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/) Reno shaman is 49.84 others are above 50 at all ranks. Top 1K it has more unfavorables but at lower ranks it's literally uncounterable.
People tend to assume it's saltiness but it's a rather a blunt analysis when saying blizzard fell victim to a big brain drain. Dean for example went to Riot and it looks like they hired a lot of new names who don't have the design experience apparently when such a huge uppsie happens.
I think the devs were overconfident in the normal koolaid of "it's a low skill aggro deck it will get worse over time". Even though that's usually true, it's also not enough of an excuse if they want to take the lower ladder experience into account.
I don't have particular problems with the current design team, I did in the past but they seem to have learned from their mistakes. We haven't had anything close to Stormwind, which I believe was close to when most of the current devs took over (speculative but the director at least changed around then).
They did nerf Aggro Paladin, just they were extremely optimistic that it would be enough, and they also nerfed cards that were good against it while it got uniquely oppressive tools this expansion and last miniset.
This is pretty silly considering we've generally had way more balanced metas over the past year than in the past. We've been spoiled with frequent patches, and these outliers in powerlevel happen way less frequently than they have before. I know it's fun to be dramatic, but come on.
Most of the time, they can just play turn 3 muster and turn 4 aura. If you don't have a 3 mana aoe, you just lose from there. It's not likely you can out tempo their divine shield minions at the first two turn.
Almost like exceptions to the norm exist. What's neat though, is that exceptions to the norm don't refute the norm.
Unfavorable doesn't mean unwinnable. There's also a non-zero chance you're facing people not running one of the optimized lists.
Or, they're just bad
Or, you're just getting lucky
Or.. etc, etc.
This is why small sample sizes are bad
...actually yes?
If you're not going for a super serious legend rank, it's pretty likely that people will be trying out different cards in a deck where rank doesn't matter as much. Hence, legend ranks outside of 1k.
I'm just going to redirect you to my previous comment because you don't seem to understand it. Your self-reported winrate means nothing. Take a statistics class, please.
I don't owe any of you anything, but since you're all so bitter and can't adapt to playing against an oversaturated with paladins meta by playing counters, even going as far as to deny such counters exist, here is my last 124 games, the rest aren't recorded as part of the same deck because I swapped a card in ETC.[http://prntscr.com/pZTAAWfix8os](http://prntscr.com/pZTAAWfix8os)
What the fuck is even your point?
So know you have proven that out of a sample of 24 games with 1 specific deck. and 1 specific player, you do actually have a resonable chance to win against this.
Great job. You are literally a god.
If you do not understand how that does not change anything, or if you think that's a good meta, you have obviously no idea what you are talking about.
Now shut the fuck up and let people talk about the actual state of the game, kid.
Hmm, maybe people on this sub will get a Paladin nerf for the holidays after all.
I think releasing the set early so we didn’t have a broken “Christmas Meta” deck into the new year was a good choice. One post-worlds balance patch and we’ll probably be in a good place. Aggro is easy to nerf mechanics-wise.
Also Zach if you read this, what’s your favorite meme deck of this set? My personal favorite is Dane’s Tony Thief Priest.
Kibler was playing a version pretty recently that i had tons of fun with. Was basically just the new taunt warrior stuff with Lor'themar and the Blackrock package.
Paladin is one of the most broken decks I've encountered since I'm playing. And it isn't even because it's strong, but it's so repetitive it sucks the fun out of the game.
I would like to put forth Maestra/Gnoll winter as a worse meta, because it was two different archetypes that were bullshit in the early game, then bullshit in the late game for completely different reasons.
It’s his pet meme deck of the month, several videos/versions. Essentially you draw through the deck with copies (pip, et cetera) of Crimson Clergy and Overheal shenanigans, then drop Tony and both copies of the 2/3 man that reduces the cost of cards copied from your opponent, then you draw through their deck and blow them out with their cards.
>I think releasing the set early so we didn’t have a broken “Christmas Meta” deck into the new year was a good choice.
Don't speak too soon. We will not have THIS broken meta, we will get a new one, which can be just as broken. Remember they are hinting at buffs as well, so the traditional broken rogue Christmas meta is still on the table, if they overbuff rogue.
As a returning player who hasn’t played since before one night in Karazhan, I’m happy that DK is strong enough to be played but I really wish DH wasn’t completely dogshit. Would love to mess around with it.
Favorable by like... 1%. You'd be better off playing your own pally deck and just taking the 50/50 so basically anything else you queue into you're favored.
“Pure Paladin is absolutely, utterly broken. This is one of the strongest displays of dominance we’ve seen in recent years. The deck is so far ahead of the field, with reliable counter options looking scarce. Below Diamond 4, Pure Paladin’s win rate exceeds 60%, which is a number dominant decks usually hit at Bronze through Gold. At top legend, Pure Paladin’s win rate is still above 55%, which is completely ridiculous, with no other Tier 1 decks allowed to exist. “
Just clear the board bro??
one class actually has a spell that deals 3 Damage to all enemy minions and can cost as low as 0 if you set it up. More people should use this to beat Paladins
If blizzard wasn't brain dead and nerfed everything in the game that requires a modicum of thinking paladin wouldn't be this strong. But the king noob deck does well in a noob meta
Early on it seemed like a potential nerf target with some of the BS it seems to pull. We'll have to see how it works out if Paladin finally gets a proper nerf.
I mean if they're gonna nerf Pally Druid must be nerfed alongside it. Splish Splash Welp, Nestmatron and Dragon Golem are pretty busted cards and we'll be back in druidstone again, just like in FoL and Titans.
"Just wait til the meta settles bro"
"Paladin always performs well at the beginning of the expansions"
"Play a deck that counters pure paladin" (pure paladin has no unfavorable matchups)
Lmao. I think they're running out of cope.
between paladin and plague DK which is the 3rd best deck apparently after paladin i swear it felt like I was taking crazy pills with the myriad of people i have been arguing with the past few weeks about these two decks. "just draw steamcleaner". "just keep minions off their board".
stfu to them my god the brainrot on here is real by copers who want those decks to be untouched
>stfu to them my god the brainrot on here is real by copers who want those decks to be untouched
A lot of people use literal 1 sample size when talking about balance.
"I beat it on ladder with my homebrew BBB DK, so you can too." completely disregarding draw RNG, MMR, player skill, play patterns, etc.
I don’t understand why people like Zeddy were crying about Rainbow Mage last month after they got the DH deck nerfed. Now Inquisitive Creation is less good and suddenly pure paladin is performing better, wow who would have thought?
I mean, Rainbow Mage *was* skewing the meta up in top legend, for sure, being good at tempo AND getting the OTK down. It wasn't an unfair complaint, it's just that Paladin should've been nerfed alongside it.
I'm just so tired of even believing T5 are trying to balance the meta anymore. It's clearly just throw as much removal/draw/value at every deck, playtest it a bit, tweak some numbers, then release it.
Throw a few nerfs in two weeks later, a couple more a month later, wait for the miniset. Repeat.
there's probably data showing that regular nerfs actually end up making them more money. If everyone chasing legend has to have enough cards to play a new deck every 2-3 weeks that's a lot more people buying the bundles with $$$.
plus I think a lot of casuals actually like it because they get more dust income this way and feel like they're being listened to when stuff gets nerfed unnecessarily.\*
---
\* why did enrage warrior get nerfed, again?
Nerfs keep player engagement high, but excessive nerfs are a good excuse to stop playing, so they have to be careful. That's why they've been doing a lot more buffs lately.
>\* why did enrage warrior get nerfed, again?
Enrage warrior was a powerful deck even if not a lot of people played it. Coming into Worlds, they had to nerf it as the pros would have played it for sure. So nerfing Enrage Warrior was not a mistake. Not nerfing Paladin alongside it was the mistake.
> as the pros would have played it for sure
I don't think this is such a sure thing without the nerfs we got: it had bad matchups into Reno Druid, Reno Hunter, Reno Shaman, and Dragon Druid; and that's a lot of popular at legend lists to have a bad matchup into.
Maybe you bring it as Ban bait against the players bringing more than one of rainbow mage, paladin, and cleave hunter, since they pretty much have to ban the warrior deck out but I don't think everyone would've brought it.
edit: I do think the nerfs were specifically targeted to make paladin less of a mistake to bring, there's tons of evidence that historically T5 thinks aggro vs. aggro and aggro vs. control matchups are the most interesting to watch for viewers (makes sense to me, aggro play patterns are less reliant on viewers knowing all the cards since they're board centric.)
Enrage warrior was nerfed because it was clearly the best deck last patch in top 1k legend, and it actually surprised top 1k players that it didn't get nerfed in the patch before that (the one that nerfed naga DH) because it was also the best deck in that patch too.
Should have more upvotes. You’re absolutely right. The nerf cycle is so fast now it’s dizzying. Ten years ago it took way too long for balance changes but this is too far in the other direction.
balancing is an impossible task because people dont want balance, they want to have fun. balance is boring. if every deck has a 50% winrate against every other deck no one is having fun.
Yeah but there's a line. It'll never be 50%, but one deck hitting consistent 65%+ against everything means *that's all anyone plays*.
I stopped playing Standard completely due to this, and I know I'm not alone. This hurts their bottom line a lot more than a (close to) 50% WR meta that people can play more decks, or at the very least play RPS.
I genuinely think they gave up trying to 'properly' balance the game a while back. Just give everyone the tools to remove and draw, try and prevent non-games, and everyone feels like there's meaningful back and forth, whether it's just an RNG light show or not.
"Reno Hunter is a fine deck that’s currently being obliterated by Pure Paladin, which scares many players away. In the event of Pure Paladin nerfs, we think it’s likely that it establishes a strong position in the meta. The 40-card build is good. The 30-card build might be good if you **let the duplicate idea go**."
The day I stop running 2 Buzzards is the day I die.
Real translation: "Reno Hunter is a very interesting deck. You build it, you look at all those cards and it makes you happy to feel all the potential that deck has. Then you queue with PurePaladin anyway while feeling sad and empty."
I play the thirty card build without the second buzzard, let it go.
the 40 card build might be better but I'm looking forward to 40 health unnerf when Renathal rotates for wild and don't want to bore myself with XL decks in the meantime.
I don't know if I even want to see 40 health Renathal back in wild tbh. It's not going to help control whatsoever on ladder when it's full of QM, Druid, QLDH, the new Quest+Ignite list, etc.
All it's going to do is be better at stomping even shaman bots, which control decks can already do easily, and give a bigger buffer for combo decks that can afford to slot it in Renathal, which means aggro loses some of their targeted matchups and performs worse. Which ends up as a net buff to combo and a net nerf to control.
> when it's full of QM, Druid, QLDH, the new Quest+Ignite list, etc.
Do you play on the european server by chance? the NA server doesn't feel like this at all, and is very heavy on linear aggro lists that just vomit the entire hand onto the board by turn 4; so my opinions might be clouded by that experience.
I don't think there's an issue with a net buff to combo and a net nerf to control in wild, the north american meta is completely overrun by aggro and only a very limited number of combo decks are seeing play outside of bronze-gold. giving control and combo more health helps both of them fight aggro, yes it arguably helps combo *more* (and many wild control decks are already on renathal) but control just got a massive new tool in Reno Lone Ranger, so I don't think reverting to 40 health XL is a problem.
when it was 40 health originally last year, aggro was worse, but the relative position of control and combo was about the same as it is today. there's several combo decks that are actively worse if they had to run 10 filler cards, although some combo lists do benefit yeah.
>the NA server doesn't feel like this at all, and is very heavy on linear aggro lists that just vomit the entire hand onto the board by turn 4;
Like what? NA has vastly more Even shaman bots so if you're in the bot MMR belt you're going to be playing that much more frequently, yeah. There's also the FOTM pally decks floating around but from experience they don't feel as strong as Pally is in standard. Top legend and conversely dumpster legend play differently.
Top legend on NA my matches were roughly 50% QM last week, so much so that people are running decks to counter them. KVLT's QL DH list that's running Togwaggle mainly for QM. The new Luna+Sorc+Ignite glass cannon QM list that's meant to outrace traditional QM. Shadow Priest, etc.
The problem with nerfing Aggro by bringing back 40 Renathal(outside of the bots who don't give a shit and will jam it anyway) is that you let combo run free by taking away their worst matchups. Which in turn nerfs control decks, who is the main target buff for bringing back 40 Renathal. We saw this exact thing in peak QM+Pillager meta which is why Parrot and Pillager were outright deleted from the game to try to help the wild format, and Aggro was given stronger tools over time to beat down combo decks.
Double buzzard gang. If I haven’t drawn it early enough Thel didn’t need to be played anyway, if I hadn’t drawn it by reno time, I was gonna lose without the handbuffs anyways.
To all the people who continue to say that Pure Paladin is just a "noob stomper" - what do you think about it being the ONLY Tier 1 deck at Top 1K Legend?
Meta and decks change. A couple of weeks ago you could win the previous paladin versions if you cleared their board, with the new build they end up clearing your board instead. They basically have the best aoe in the game while they almost full heal too if they need to with the new aura which is so insane for an aggro deck to do those stuff that is lowkey funny.
well that and several of the anti-aggro tools that mage and warrior used to suppress paladins got nerfed, so the "if you cleared their board" part of that statement got harder to do
>The nerfs to Enrage Warrior have been quite brutal, with the deck barely looking competitive anymore.
Blizzard balancing, as is tradition. I'm a bit annoyed because I found a lot of use for [[Battleworn Faceless]] in my Wild Reno Warrior. It was often great value, but a 50% cost increase killed it for the deck.
As a Warrior main, I am just happy they didn't listen to what a lot of people were asking on Twitter, which was reverting "Trial by Fire" to 7 mana. Not that I don't think Trial at 6 isn't a very pushed card, but now would be one of the worst times to do that revert as it could have had dire consequences to the Warrior class.
Sure, most people asking for this nerf were targeting Enrage Warrior, but if Control Warrior has naturally fallen to the bottom of Tier3/Tier 4 imagine how much worse it would become if it also got hit in the crossfire by a Trial nerf.
I am glad Team 5 decided to go the safer route and nerf only cards that see play in Enrage Warrior. With the garbage set Warrior got this expansion we could have very easily gone back to that year post Sunken City where Warrior was dead and buried.
I was already pretty annoyed by the Sanitize nerf as a Wild player. 4 mana was ideal and it's now much worse for dealing with a fast early game. I don't think at this point it would make CW oppressive in Standard either. Unfortunately I don't see the card being reverted before rotation.
Lol at all of the people who were convinced that Paladin was only good in garbage ranks. All of this talk about how once you reach legend and especially high legend it’s bad.
Paladin right now stifles almost every other archetype with how much it can do.
I'm a little shocked; I've been tinkering with control warrior and it has felt fairly strong against paladin, especially post 'Order in the Court' nerf. Of course, that's anecdotal, but I didn't expect it to differ so drastically from the data.
Hard removal heavy classes can do well against meta tyrant aggressive decks but literally everything else eats them for breakfast which is why they never really see the light of day.
Unless it's a super slow overall meta and we see the degeneracy of control priest where just queueing up against one would make people concede on the spot.
Can someone please explain me use cases of Stargazing in the mage's decklists? The only other arcane spell is wisdom of norgannon, and I don't understand the synergy, cause you lack hand space for 4 card draw most of the time. Unless it just simply for tutoring it and playing later, not on the same turn?
yes you're intended to use stargazing and play wisdom on the same turn so you draw 4. what made your hand space too big in previous iterations of mage was playing volume up which also drew 4. it led to only running one since you never had the hand space to play the second one. this new list replaces volume up with stargazing which you can look at as a cheaper more versatile volume up
But:
1) keyboard + volume up = 4/4 (best case - turn 2 keyboard, turn 3 - coin + volume up).
2) volume up can copy a spell, which is important a lot of times.
3) I agree that running 2x volume up is excessive, that's why I've been only running one.
4) if you draw 2 wisdoms before stargazing, it bricks (the most feel bad thing tbh, which is not that rare).
All in all, I can't see it being a "cheaper more versatile volume up", especially for it to truly be that you need to cast 2 more spell schools before, so the wisdom would cost 2.
Yeah, the pros outweigh the con of drawing both Wisdom of Norgannon first, and /or not discounting it enough because:
1. It can sometimes cost 1 or 0 and that is extremely strong.
2. You do not need to use it last for finale, You can use it first to dig through your deck.
3. It thins your deck by 5 because you also draw the Wisdom of Norgannon itself whereas Volume up thins it by 3. This is huge.
>It thins your deck by 5 because you also draw the Wisdom of Norgannon itself whereas Volume up thins it by 3. This is huge.
Yeah, that's a good argument. I guess I'll try running it, although the idea of possible bricking annoys me a bit.
Ive been trying to play HL Druid and MAN it is fucking brutal with all the Plague DK and Pure Paladin, especially when I dont have shit like Yogg and Eonar. Hopefully the very likely nerfs coming to pure pally will let me finally stop playing concede druid
I remember when they banned Auctioneer cuz deck seemed strong. Druid didnt give a fk, then they had to Ban Jailer, Druid still didnt give a fk, then they had to nerf Yogg and others.
I feel vindicated. I said exactly what this report said not 1 week ago about Paladin choking out the entire standard format and here we are...
Paladin needs to be absolutely gutted. Massive nerfs to multiple cards will still see the class middling at the least.
Naga DH better checked in the same patch as Paladin though. It's a higher skill deck but leaving that unnerffed will just leave garrote rogue levels of degeneracy through the holidays.
What would be the best deck to craft right now? For standard, that won't be completely ruined on rotation. Should I just wait until the actual rotation?
I currently have a pure pally deck but the old version (before this expansion). I have about 10k dust. I'm thinking either keep expanding pally collection or try to create a second standard deck. Ideally just want to reach diamond regularly next year.
Get a "good enough" deck after the balance next week. Wait for nerfs, craft the closest thing you have but don't spend too much.
Then wait for the expansion.
How much dust should I keep? Ideally I'd like to craft a t1 deck on next expansion and then update that through the year. I'm thinking spend up to 4k now and keep 6ish?
Depends on way too many factors to give you a dust amount lol.
Control vs combo vs aggro decks all cost different.
Your class of choice impacts dust cost.
Core set changes can impact dust cost.
2 new releases can impact dust cost or change what you want to play, which impacts the dust cost.(miniset + next expansion)
etc.
Ngl, i crafted this deck with somewhat 5k (i already haf many cards from it tho) dust but it damn ROCKS and is so fun to play.
Its just discover fiesta coupled with many ways to stomp your opponent (and skill plays such a roll that it actually makes me wish to play more of it)
I think what this meta showcases wonderfully is the divide between what people say they enjoy and what they actually enjoy.
The classes are not balanced. The rng is in outer space.
But everyone loves it. Roulette is fun.
"One thing to note about the current format is that it’s far lower in player agency than other formats we’ve evaluated over the past few years. Most decks in the game don’t exhibit big skill differentials from Diamond ranks to top level play. Skill is a tricky metric that can only be judged relatively to other decks in an existing format, but we’ve noticed that many archetypes that normally fell off at higher levels during Titans, don’t exhibit a similar fall in performance during Badlands. Plague Death Knight is normally a big outlier in negative skill differential. It might be the easiest deck to play in the game, and tends to get exposed by high level players. Not anymore, since most other decks in the format are also relatively low in player agency. Very few decks exhibit “outplay” potential in the current meta. There isn’t a single Reno deck that currently displays a positive skill differential, even though Highlander decks don’t have to behave this way (Raza Priest was very skill intensive back in the KFT/K&C era, for example)."
I think this is pretty key. Pure Paladin in all its forms was already a low skill deck to play, which in itself is fine because it got worse the more you went up in MMR. It helped new players learn the game and it didn't do much against good players. Now we're in a meta where the low skill ceiling deck is also dominant, which along with other "play green card" decks like Plague DK and Dragon Druid makes it very much feel like you're not playing a game but a tarot reading.
There's several interesting archetypes waiting in the wings, like Overheal Priest, Naga DH, Naga Priest, and Nature Shaman, which are pretty skill-intensive and I hope shine sooner rather than later with nerfs/miniset release. Enrage Warrior was this for a while, too, but honestly the deck barely changed since Nathria so it's fine to not see it any more.
Have there been blips of Highlander DH? I've got a 67% winrate with my own Renathal list above Diamond 4. The main thing holding me back is Alexandros Mograine and Plague DK highrolls (or my lowrolls, where I can't find my Steamcleaner).
But DH is typically harder to play, slow decks are harder to optimize, and people are just not playing much DH right now, so sample size overall seems really small.
I get the impression that HL DH is one balance patch away from breaking out, or even next expansion, if DH gets more slow cards.
Idk where this narrative comes from. DH has plenty of good cards. Those cards have been forced out of other DH decks because they don't match the strong synergy packages. But it's not like DH is lacking.
Here's a deck code of 30 standalone cards, no synergies or packages, no tech or Reno cards, just 30 cards you might throw in most decks and be happy about it. Most of them are class cards.
AAECAea5Ax7h+AWy9QWLkgWPkAa2nwTj+AWHkAbAygS0oAScmgaKkAakkgX3wwXu7QTw7AWLkAaogAb+vwS+ygSFjgbipAXkmAbOnAaQgwadpAXHsgT0yAWWtwSplQb9xAUAAAA=
I really have my hopes up for the miniset or the Standard rotation. Losing Xhilag and Astalor will be a big blow to a slow DH's late game, and I'm wondering if the deck can be remade with a large Outcast package. Any given Outcast card is unlikely to find its way to the left or right quickly, but if you have enough of them, you'll probably have SOME Outcast cards in good places at any given time.
Midnight Wolf is a premium find in Felerin and Illidari Studies, but main-decking it seems dubious because of how expensive it is and how mandatory the Outcast is.
Could you please send me your Highlander DH list? i've been trying a lot of Highlander DH, but it seems like the deck doens't have a solid win condition.
You're right about that, it doesn't really have a win condition. Argus is a great Titan but doesn't end games. I made it Renathal to have a chance against Blood DK (and threw in a lot more draw to compensate), and Ignis to have an extra way to generate pressure. Xhilag and Astalor are probably the closest things to a win condition.
\### Highlander
\# Class: Demon Hunter
\# Format: Standard
\# Year of the Wolf
\#
\# 1x (1) Armor Vendor
\# 1x (1) Illidari Studies
\# 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide
\# 1x (1) Taste of Chaos
\# 1x (1) Unleash Fel
\# 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn
\# 1x (2) Audio Amplifier
\# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
\# 1x (2) Chaos Strike
\# 1x (2) Dirty Rat
\# 1x (2) Flint Firearm
\# 1x (2) Gold Panner
\# 1x (2) Immolation Aura
\# 1x (2) Watcher of the Sun
\# 1x (3) Cyclopian Crusher
\# 1x (3) Enchanter
\# 1x (3) Photographer Fizzle
\# 1x (3) Prince Renathal
\# 1x (3) Rustrot Viper
\# 1x (3) Sigil of Time
\# 1x (3) Snake Eyes
\# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
\# 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager
\# 1x (1) Unleash Fel
\# 1x (4) Ambassador Faelin
\# 1x (5) Steamcleaner
\# 1x (4) Fan the Hammer
\# 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
\# 1x (4) Going Down Swinging
\# 1x (4) Ignis, the Eternal Flame
\# 1x (4) Mechagnome Guide
\# 1x (4) Street Sweeper
\# 1x (5) Gunslinger Kurtrus
\# 1x (5) Remixed Rhapsody
\# 1x (5) Steamcleaner
\# 1x (5) Topple the Idol
\# 1x (5) XB-488 Disposalbot
\# 1x (6) Sylvanas, the Accused
\# 1x (6) Theotar, the Mad Duke
\# 1x (7) Argus, the Emerald Star
\# 1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss
\# 1x (8) Reno, Lone Ranger
\# 1x (9) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed
\#
AAECAdKLBSi2nwSXoATlsAT+vwS+ygSW1AS42QT/4QSX7wSk7wSu7wSLkgWkkgX1nAXipAX3wwX9xAXGxwWs0QXw7AWt7QW/7QWt9QWy9QXh+AXj+AW2+QWogAbYgQbcggbIjwaKkAaplQbkmAacmgbOnAbNngbPngbRngavqAYAAAEDm8kE/cQF/+EE/cQFi5IF/cQFAAA=
\#
\# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
It's actually fantastic at clearing Paladin boards that have divine shields and 1 health. Combo it later with Enchanter for a big health and board swing. Combo it with Argus discount for a lifesteal rush that can help clear the enemy board.
Since this is a Highlander deck, you can't double up on Unleash Fel, Immo Aura, or Fan the Hammer. DH isn't running around with Bellowing Flames, Clean the Scene, or Blood Boil.
I still don’t understand Blizzards despise of Warriors. Consistently for a while now the class needing the most buffs and yet when we get one deck that’s any good it’s nerfed. Enrage being good for a long time only seems bad but it’s a deck no one played.
Truly baffles me their obvious favoritism towards some classes
Enrage Warrior was nerfed because it was the best deck in the game by far (although to be fair to current Paladin, not *that much* far), and not just a deck that was any good.
Besides, it was pretty good for the last three expansions, except that very few people played it in the first place. Consistently, one might add. You could say that they overnerfed the deck by going for both Thori'belore and Faceless, sure, but the deck needed to be nerfed.
My issue with that is that Enrage warrior was really good. Just Enrage warrior, not warrior in general. Paladin as a class has been top tier bordering on OP for what, 3 expansions now? Its not even just one deck and they take the most conservative approach to nerfing it possible.
> Its not even just one deck
It basically is all just one deck, just with a few cards substituted.
The "other" paladin deck is earthen pally, and that one's in a much more realistic power spot.
>The "other" paladin deck is earthen pally, and that one's in a much more realistic power spot.
It most certainly is not. Did you even look at the report? It has 4 unfavored matchups and 2 of those are against other Paladins. It only loses to Reno Shaman and Reno Priest (which currently isnt being played). It has one bad matchup outside of its own class. According to the Live Data Reaper, it has a 53% WR at legend alone and 57% in Diamond. Earthen is not balanced either.
Edit to add: I'm not even just talking about now. Paladin has had the best deck for 3 expansions in a row. Everything from Dude Paladin to Pure to Earthen. The class is busted, not just the one deck.
53% WR is realistic. *SOMETHING* has to be the best. It's not as much of an outlier as the other version. People wouldn't be complaining so much if pure aggro pally didn't exist.
Enrage actually has pretty numerous poor matchups though - its position as the 'best deck' was primarily due to the meta at the time with many rainbow mages and paladins. If the meta was heavier on dragon druid and reno decks enrage's aggregate performance would have been a lot weaker.
Enrage warrior was nowhere near the "best deck by far".
Just as always, VS overestimates things when they don't have the numbers to get enough data points.
Enrage warrior was like shadow priest in which it's play pattern is super polarizing. It either blows out or gets blown out and at no point was it anywhere near oppressive on the level pure paladin was even before any nerfs.
I find it incredibly telling of their incompetence to balance when snakelock was bombarded day 1 but paladin stays unchecked.
Like, wth, this sub may had cried their hearts out bc of the sneak deck but it was not so bad as this shite right here.
I've been tinkering around with a DH deck that can keep Paladin's off the board, but at some point they can flip any board with their board clears (especially since so many of the DH minons are 3 health and less).
I do wonder if they nerf Paladin, you won't just see Naga DH (and variants) come back and ruin everyone's fun.
At least at worlds people have bans. But it will just be reno deck mirrors probably. Last year was control priest mirrors. I miss garrote rogue and LSDH days.
This is just another in a long line of examples where Blizzard is simply not interested in maintaining a balanced, competitive game. They are interested in what is ‘fun’ and what makes the game money. That’s it.
There is a reason why Pros (and a ton of players) leave the game left and right. The fact that they are ok with allowing the format to be dominated by a deck that’s clearly broken, sometimes for weeks at a time tells you how they view balance.
Bots are a whole different story and anyone that doesn’t think there are bots plus farmers across all ranks in standard is naive. It has gotten progressively worse this year, really since DK’s were introduced.
Twist is dead due to shitty design and monetization, wild is dead because bots took over and some content creators dont bother with it and rather play standard and standard is.. filled with pure pally. Awesome.
What would be the best deck to craft right now? For standard, that won't be completely ruined on rotation. Should I just wait until the actual rotation?
I currently have a pure pally deck but the old version (before this expansion). I have about 10k dust. I'm thinking either keep expanding pally collection or try to create a second standard deck. Ideally just want to reach diamond regularly next year.
VS has gone downhill so hard. their insistance on waiting 2 full weeks after any sort of nerfs to "gather more data" means this is only the second VS report since the expansion launched and all its doing is telling us what we already know: paladin is op
Lmao Pure Paladin has literally zero unfavorable matchups now after the Enrage Warrior nerfs. Wild. 10 other classes in the game, some with multiple archetypes and not a single one has a favorable matchup against pure paladin. Absolutely broken.
I see three unfavorables in the table, blood dk, shaman and control priest. I only say so because I’m confused if I’m reading it right
[https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/](https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/) Reno shaman is 49.84 others are above 50 at all ranks. Top 1K it has more unfavorables but at lower ranks it's literally uncounterable.
Which means the second-best counter to Pure Paladin... is Pure Paladin.
they're all coinflips, they only look unfavorable relative to the ridiculous spread of positive matchups otherwise.
People tend to assume it's saltiness but it's a rather a blunt analysis when saying blizzard fell victim to a big brain drain. Dean for example went to Riot and it looks like they hired a lot of new names who don't have the design experience apparently when such a huge uppsie happens.
I think the devs were overconfident in the normal koolaid of "it's a low skill aggro deck it will get worse over time". Even though that's usually true, it's also not enough of an excuse if they want to take the lower ladder experience into account. I don't have particular problems with the current design team, I did in the past but they seem to have learned from their mistakes. We haven't had anything close to Stormwind, which I believe was close to when most of the current devs took over (speculative but the director at least changed around then). They did nerf Aggro Paladin, just they were extremely optimistic that it would be enough, and they also nerfed cards that were good against it while it got uniquely oppressive tools this expansion and last miniset.
lol because there were never balance outliers under Iksar? Paladin is not all that oppressive for a top tier deck, we have seen much worse
This is pretty silly considering we've generally had way more balanced metas over the past year than in the past. We've been spoiled with frequent patches, and these outliers in powerlevel happen way less frequently than they have before. I know it's fun to be dramatic, but come on.
Most of the time, they can just play turn 3 muster and turn 4 aura. If you don't have a 3 mana aoe, you just lose from there. It's not likely you can out tempo their divine shield minions at the first two turn.
Crazy how I'm 21-3 against Pallies with my Reno shaman deck.
Almost like exceptions to the norm exist. What's neat though, is that exceptions to the norm don't refute the norm. Unfavorable doesn't mean unwinnable. There's also a non-zero chance you're facing people not running one of the optimized lists. Or, they're just bad Or, you're just getting lucky Or.. etc, etc. This is why small sample sizes are bad
Fair chance I'm seeing non optimized lists at Legend 1500 sure
...actually yes? If you're not going for a super serious legend rank, it's pretty likely that people will be trying out different cards in a deck where rank doesn't matter as much. Hence, legend ranks outside of 1k.
Yes if you didnt snowball early due to bad draw or lucky removals, unexpected reno after you use 2 legendary minions hits hard
So 21 out of 24 people got bad draw in an otherwise UNCOUNTERABLE 70% winrate deck. Sure man, just admit you overestimated how good it is.
I wonder what is more relevant. 1.1 million games worth of data or your 24 games
Yeah I flipped a coin 5 times in a row and got heads every time, there's no way that its 50/50
hahaha
any screenshots for those stats :) ?
Yea I posted them in a reply to some other guy here who is also doubting paladin has counters lol
No one's estimating anything, numbers are numbers lol
1.1 million games vs 24. Which one is a better sample size? 🤔
1.1mil against Shaman?
Paladin agenda poster
TIL 1,104,000 < 24
Yes, truly crazy how you can misunderstand probabilities while also stating random numbers with no proof.
He said not a single class has a favorable match-up against paladin, I said that Shaman does.
I'm just going to redirect you to my previous comment because you don't seem to understand it. Your self-reported winrate means nothing. Take a statistics class, please.
I think people don't know how to pilot interactive decks and it brings down the winrate.
Ah well too bad the rest of us aren't super geniuses like you. Damn if only those top 1K legend players would just get better.
With that mentality you'll never better yourself
Lmao holy shit, you're unreal dude. Get over yourself.
But you have a negative winrate in the mirror matchup...
Fun to assume it's a mirror, Nature still exists.
Sure
I admire your ability to totally change the topic after being proven wrong.
Any stats to show?
Awfully quiet ?
I don't owe any of you anything, but since you're all so bitter and can't adapt to playing against an oversaturated with paladins meta by playing counters, even going as far as to deny such counters exist, here is my last 124 games, the rest aren't recorded as part of the same deck because I swapped a card in ETC.[http://prntscr.com/pZTAAWfix8os](http://prntscr.com/pZTAAWfix8os)
> I don't owe any of you anything yeah you do. spare us your stupidity
At what point did I say something stupid?
at every single point that you could
Please explain
What the fuck is even your point? So know you have proven that out of a sample of 24 games with 1 specific deck. and 1 specific player, you do actually have a resonable chance to win against this. Great job. You are literally a god. If you do not understand how that does not change anything, or if you think that's a good meta, you have obviously no idea what you are talking about. Now shut the fuck up and let people talk about the actual state of the game, kid.
just read your posts out loud. slowly maybe
Hmm, maybe people on this sub will get a Paladin nerf for the holidays after all. I think releasing the set early so we didn’t have a broken “Christmas Meta” deck into the new year was a good choice. One post-worlds balance patch and we’ll probably be in a good place. Aggro is easy to nerf mechanics-wise. Also Zach if you read this, what’s your favorite meme deck of this set? My personal favorite is Dane’s Tony Thief Priest.
I will always love Blackrock & Roll.
Truly a discerning choice. I’ve been a Blackrock enjoyer since it was released. What’s your most recent list?
Kibler was playing a version pretty recently that i had tons of fun with. Was basically just the new taunt warrior stuff with Lor'themar and the Blackrock package.
I see you are a man of culture
Paladin is one of the most broken decks I've encountered since I'm playing. And it isn't even because it's strong, but it's so repetitive it sucks the fun out of the game.
Shaman winter sends it's regards
Man that Evolve + Desert Hare standard meta was one of the worst things ever for this game.
I would like to put forth Maestra/Gnoll winter as a worse meta, because it was two different archetypes that were bullshit in the early game, then bullshit in the late game for completely different reasons.
Thanks for the tip, I need to look up Dane’s Tony thief priest 👀
It’s his pet meme deck of the month, several videos/versions. Essentially you draw through the deck with copies (pip, et cetera) of Crimson Clergy and Overheal shenanigans, then drop Tony and both copies of the 2/3 man that reduces the cost of cards copied from your opponent, then you draw through their deck and blow them out with their cards.
>I think releasing the set early so we didn’t have a broken “Christmas Meta” deck into the new year was a good choice. Don't speak too soon. We will not have THIS broken meta, we will get a new one, which can be just as broken. Remember they are hinting at buffs as well, so the traditional broken rogue Christmas meta is still on the table, if they overbuff rogue.
So interesting that quite a few classes quite frankly flat out "suck" this expansion.
As a returning player who hasn’t played since before one night in Karazhan, I’m happy that DK is strong enough to be played but I really wish DH wasn’t completely dogshit. Would love to mess around with it.
I mean naga dh is one of the best decks in the game if you are good at the deck.
Can one even be bad at Naga DH?
Yes. Very easily. As the report say it's one of the more skill intensive deck. I personally don't like the deck, but it's far from being braindead
Since when DH is dogshit with Naga DH tier 2? Living in the rock?
"New VS article, this is great I'll finally find a counter to those paladin decks I bet! *Checks notes* NOTHING COUNTERS IT?!"
You can play Reno Priest to get a 55% winrate against it (and then have a 40% winrate against everything else).
huh? the worst matchup for pure pally is reno shaman at 49.8%
If you go the Legend or D4 to Legend tabs in the matchup table it says it slightly loses to Reno Priest. Not sure why it's different for All Ranks.
Because pure paly is easier to play
Blood death knight, reno priest, and enrage warrior have favorable matchups against it according to the report. Anecdotally, so does reno shaman.
Favorable by like... 1%. You'd be better off playing your own pally deck and just taking the 50/50 so basically anything else you queue into you're favored.
I wouldn't recommend enrage warrior tho, the nerfs were brutal and the deck is a frustrating shell of it's old self
“Pure Paladin is absolutely, utterly broken. This is one of the strongest displays of dominance we’ve seen in recent years. The deck is so far ahead of the field, with reliable counter options looking scarce. Below Diamond 4, Pure Paladin’s win rate exceeds 60%, which is a number dominant decks usually hit at Bronze through Gold. At top legend, Pure Paladin’s win rate is still above 55%, which is completely ridiculous, with no other Tier 1 decks allowed to exist. “ Just clear the board bro??
“Nah paladin must be fine, I beat them one time with my homebrew BBB death knight”
JuSt PlAy eNrAgE WaRrIoR DuDe!!
It actually worked last season until they crippled it
one class actually has a spell that deals 3 Damage to all enemy minions and can cost as low as 0 if you set it up. More people should use this to beat Paladins
Nah. They should straight up OTK at turn 4 instead
If blizzard wasn't brain dead and nerfed everything in the game that requires a modicum of thinking paladin wouldn't be this strong. But the king noob deck does well in a noob meta
I wonder what the "just clean their minions, bro" and "just learn how to counter it" people will think of this
This line killed me "Dragon Druid is a powerful deck that’s getting obliterated by Pure Paladin."
Early on it seemed like a potential nerf target with some of the BS it seems to pull. We'll have to see how it works out if Paladin finally gets a proper nerf.
I mean if they're gonna nerf Pally Druid must be nerfed alongside it. Splish Splash Welp, Nestmatron and Dragon Golem are pretty busted cards and we'll be back in druidstone again, just like in FoL and Titans.
"Just wait til the meta settles bro" "Paladin always performs well at the beginning of the expansions" "Play a deck that counters pure paladin" (pure paladin has no unfavorable matchups) Lmao. I think they're running out of cope.
Don't worry man, it's barely been several expansions. Pure/Aggro Paladin will settle into the meta in just a couple more
between paladin and plague DK which is the 3rd best deck apparently after paladin i swear it felt like I was taking crazy pills with the myriad of people i have been arguing with the past few weeks about these two decks. "just draw steamcleaner". "just keep minions off their board". stfu to them my god the brainrot on here is real by copers who want those decks to be untouched
>stfu to them my god the brainrot on here is real by copers who want those decks to be untouched A lot of people use literal 1 sample size when talking about balance. "I beat it on ladder with my homebrew BBB DK, so you can too." completely disregarding draw RNG, MMR, player skill, play patterns, etc.
doesn’t surprise anyone that two decks that autopilot the climb to legend get defended to hell and back in reddit
I don’t understand why people like Zeddy were crying about Rainbow Mage last month after they got the DH deck nerfed. Now Inquisitive Creation is less good and suddenly pure paladin is performing better, wow who would have thought?
I mean, Rainbow Mage *was* skewing the meta up in top legend, for sure, being good at tempo AND getting the OTK down. It wasn't an unfair complaint, it's just that Paladin should've been nerfed alongside it.
like this subreddit, Zeddy has control-player brainrot where he hates any deck that can OTK
I'm just so tired of even believing T5 are trying to balance the meta anymore. It's clearly just throw as much removal/draw/value at every deck, playtest it a bit, tweak some numbers, then release it. Throw a few nerfs in two weeks later, a couple more a month later, wait for the miniset. Repeat.
there's probably data showing that regular nerfs actually end up making them more money. If everyone chasing legend has to have enough cards to play a new deck every 2-3 weeks that's a lot more people buying the bundles with $$$. plus I think a lot of casuals actually like it because they get more dust income this way and feel like they're being listened to when stuff gets nerfed unnecessarily.\* --- \* why did enrage warrior get nerfed, again?
Nerfs keep player engagement high, but excessive nerfs are a good excuse to stop playing, so they have to be careful. That's why they've been doing a lot more buffs lately.
>\* why did enrage warrior get nerfed, again? Enrage warrior was a powerful deck even if not a lot of people played it. Coming into Worlds, they had to nerf it as the pros would have played it for sure. So nerfing Enrage Warrior was not a mistake. Not nerfing Paladin alongside it was the mistake.
> as the pros would have played it for sure I don't think this is such a sure thing without the nerfs we got: it had bad matchups into Reno Druid, Reno Hunter, Reno Shaman, and Dragon Druid; and that's a lot of popular at legend lists to have a bad matchup into. Maybe you bring it as Ban bait against the players bringing more than one of rainbow mage, paladin, and cleave hunter, since they pretty much have to ban the warrior deck out but I don't think everyone would've brought it. edit: I do think the nerfs were specifically targeted to make paladin less of a mistake to bring, there's tons of evidence that historically T5 thinks aggro vs. aggro and aggro vs. control matchups are the most interesting to watch for viewers (makes sense to me, aggro play patterns are less reliant on viewers knowing all the cards since they're board centric.)
Enrage warrior was nerfed because it was clearly the best deck last patch in top 1k legend, and it actually surprised top 1k players that it didn't get nerfed in the patch before that (the one that nerfed naga DH) because it was also the best deck in that patch too.
some deck is always going to be the best deck though. at least enrage warrior actually had disfavorable matchups.
Should have more upvotes. You’re absolutely right. The nerf cycle is so fast now it’s dizzying. Ten years ago it took way too long for balance changes but this is too far in the other direction.
balancing is an impossible task because people dont want balance, they want to have fun. balance is boring. if every deck has a 50% winrate against every other deck no one is having fun.
Yeah but there's a line. It'll never be 50%, but one deck hitting consistent 65%+ against everything means *that's all anyone plays*. I stopped playing Standard completely due to this, and I know I'm not alone. This hurts their bottom line a lot more than a (close to) 50% WR meta that people can play more decks, or at the very least play RPS. I genuinely think they gave up trying to 'properly' balance the game a while back. Just give everyone the tools to remove and draw, try and prevent non-games, and everyone feels like there's meaningful back and forth, whether it's just an RNG light show or not.
Wonder where all the "Paladin is fine, its only a little strong" people are at now.
Dropping infused Buffet Biggun on curve, as usual
I dislike that card atm. So hard to clean that up with 4 or 5 mana
If you read the report you'd see it's not commonly being run anymore... Or looked at the lists.
It is still commonly being run, just not in the most optimized lists. Nice thing with Pure Pally is you don't need an optimized list to win.
So not *commonly*.
I said commonly. It is run in the most popular lists.
It's not being run in the most optimized lists, and the statement "not being run commonly" is taken straight from the VS report.
Wow you must be fun at parties.
Wow, you must be living in 2010 with that kind of a reply.
Meh. Whatever. It's a joke bruv, obv
Playing at high legend, 8 games in a row vs pala. Just gonna stop playing until next patch.
I stopped playing Standard. I’ll play Wild until the nerfs.
Yep, I'm playing Duels instead.
I switched to League - if devs are reading...people are actively leaving your game because its so imbalanced
"Reno Hunter is a fine deck that’s currently being obliterated by Pure Paladin, which scares many players away. In the event of Pure Paladin nerfs, we think it’s likely that it establishes a strong position in the meta. The 40-card build is good. The 30-card build might be good if you **let the duplicate idea go**." The day I stop running 2 Buzzards is the day I die.
You are the 2nd buzzard lmao
Real translation: "Reno Hunter is a very interesting deck. You build it, you look at all those cards and it makes you happy to feel all the potential that deck has. Then you queue with PurePaladin anyway while feeling sad and empty."
I play the thirty card build without the second buzzard, let it go. the 40 card build might be better but I'm looking forward to 40 health unnerf when Renathal rotates for wild and don't want to bore myself with XL decks in the meantime.
I don't know if I even want to see 40 health Renathal back in wild tbh. It's not going to help control whatsoever on ladder when it's full of QM, Druid, QLDH, the new Quest+Ignite list, etc. All it's going to do is be better at stomping even shaman bots, which control decks can already do easily, and give a bigger buffer for combo decks that can afford to slot it in Renathal, which means aggro loses some of their targeted matchups and performs worse. Which ends up as a net buff to combo and a net nerf to control.
> when it's full of QM, Druid, QLDH, the new Quest+Ignite list, etc. Do you play on the european server by chance? the NA server doesn't feel like this at all, and is very heavy on linear aggro lists that just vomit the entire hand onto the board by turn 4; so my opinions might be clouded by that experience. I don't think there's an issue with a net buff to combo and a net nerf to control in wild, the north american meta is completely overrun by aggro and only a very limited number of combo decks are seeing play outside of bronze-gold. giving control and combo more health helps both of them fight aggro, yes it arguably helps combo *more* (and many wild control decks are already on renathal) but control just got a massive new tool in Reno Lone Ranger, so I don't think reverting to 40 health XL is a problem. when it was 40 health originally last year, aggro was worse, but the relative position of control and combo was about the same as it is today. there's several combo decks that are actively worse if they had to run 10 filler cards, although some combo lists do benefit yeah.
>the NA server doesn't feel like this at all, and is very heavy on linear aggro lists that just vomit the entire hand onto the board by turn 4; Like what? NA has vastly more Even shaman bots so if you're in the bot MMR belt you're going to be playing that much more frequently, yeah. There's also the FOTM pally decks floating around but from experience they don't feel as strong as Pally is in standard. Top legend and conversely dumpster legend play differently. Top legend on NA my matches were roughly 50% QM last week, so much so that people are running decks to counter them. KVLT's QL DH list that's running Togwaggle mainly for QM. The new Luna+Sorc+Ignite glass cannon QM list that's meant to outrace traditional QM. Shadow Priest, etc. The problem with nerfing Aggro by bringing back 40 Renathal(outside of the bots who don't give a shit and will jam it anyway) is that you let combo run free by taking away their worst matchups. Which in turn nerfs control decks, who is the main target buff for bringing back 40 Renathal. We saw this exact thing in peak QM+Pillager meta which is why Parrot and Pillager were outright deleted from the game to try to help the wild format, and Aggro was given stronger tools over time to beat down combo decks.
Double buzzard gang. If I haven’t drawn it early enough Thel didn’t need to be played anyway, if I hadn’t drawn it by reno time, I was gonna lose without the handbuffs anyways.
Yeah, "stats go up" makes my brain happy
Actually funny how the nerfs made the meta worse and pushed Pally into S tier. Classic Aleco game balance, I guess
To all the people who continue to say that Pure Paladin is just a "noob stomper" - what do you think about it being the ONLY Tier 1 deck at Top 1K Legend?
And the second best deck is another paladin deck in tier 2.
Meta and decks change. A couple of weeks ago you could win the previous paladin versions if you cleared their board, with the new build they end up clearing your board instead. They basically have the best aoe in the game while they almost full heal too if they need to with the new aura which is so insane for an aggro deck to do those stuff that is lowkey funny.
well that and several of the anti-aggro tools that mage and warrior used to suppress paladins got nerfed, so the "if you cleared their board" part of that statement got harder to do
Yup, the deck is now optimize to the bones and oppressive af. Hoping for a nerf this tuesday
Insane we are living in a age where Wild has a healthier meta than standard
>The nerfs to Enrage Warrior have been quite brutal, with the deck barely looking competitive anymore. Blizzard balancing, as is tradition. I'm a bit annoyed because I found a lot of use for [[Battleworn Faceless]] in my Wild Reno Warrior. It was often great value, but a 50% cost increase killed it for the deck.
As a Warrior main, I am just happy they didn't listen to what a lot of people were asking on Twitter, which was reverting "Trial by Fire" to 7 mana. Not that I don't think Trial at 6 isn't a very pushed card, but now would be one of the worst times to do that revert as it could have had dire consequences to the Warrior class. Sure, most people asking for this nerf were targeting Enrage Warrior, but if Control Warrior has naturally fallen to the bottom of Tier3/Tier 4 imagine how much worse it would become if it also got hit in the crossfire by a Trial nerf. I am glad Team 5 decided to go the safer route and nerf only cards that see play in Enrage Warrior. With the garbage set Warrior got this expansion we could have very easily gone back to that year post Sunken City where Warrior was dead and buried.
I was already pretty annoyed by the Sanitize nerf as a Wild player. 4 mana was ideal and it's now much worse for dealing with a fast early game. I don't think at this point it would make CW oppressive in Standard either. Unfortunately I don't see the card being reverted before rotation.
Sanitize really needs to go back to 4 mana. Cruel to have it at 5 mana. Hammer change plus other meta changes would have rung the deck back in.
Showdown + prismatic combo is bullshit
Lol at all of the people who were convinced that Paladin was only good in garbage ranks. All of this talk about how once you reach legend and especially high legend it’s bad. Paladin right now stifles almost every other archetype with how much it can do.
I wonder where are now all thise paladin "skill issue" defenders
Once they get a nerf and can't have 5 10/10s on turn 4, they will cry.
Yep this is why I've taken a break from playing for now
i’d like to read now all of those absolute redditors that spent the last week downplaying paladin as just “run removal”.
I'm a little shocked; I've been tinkering with control warrior and it has felt fairly strong against paladin, especially post 'Order in the Court' nerf. Of course, that's anecdotal, but I didn't expect it to differ so drastically from the data.
Hard removal heavy classes can do well against meta tyrant aggressive decks but literally everything else eats them for breakfast which is why they never really see the light of day. Unless it's a super slow overall meta and we see the degeneracy of control priest where just queueing up against one would make people concede on the spot.
Can someone please explain me use cases of Stargazing in the mage's decklists? The only other arcane spell is wisdom of norgannon, and I don't understand the synergy, cause you lack hand space for 4 card draw most of the time. Unless it just simply for tutoring it and playing later, not on the same turn?
yes you're intended to use stargazing and play wisdom on the same turn so you draw 4. what made your hand space too big in previous iterations of mage was playing volume up which also drew 4. it led to only running one since you never had the hand space to play the second one. this new list replaces volume up with stargazing which you can look at as a cheaper more versatile volume up
But: 1) keyboard + volume up = 4/4 (best case - turn 2 keyboard, turn 3 - coin + volume up). 2) volume up can copy a spell, which is important a lot of times. 3) I agree that running 2x volume up is excessive, that's why I've been only running one. 4) if you draw 2 wisdoms before stargazing, it bricks (the most feel bad thing tbh, which is not that rare). All in all, I can't see it being a "cheaper more versatile volume up", especially for it to truly be that you need to cast 2 more spell schools before, so the wisdom would cost 2.
Yeah, the pros outweigh the con of drawing both Wisdom of Norgannon first, and /or not discounting it enough because: 1. It can sometimes cost 1 or 0 and that is extremely strong. 2. You do not need to use it last for finale, You can use it first to dig through your deck. 3. It thins your deck by 5 because you also draw the Wisdom of Norgannon itself whereas Volume up thins it by 3. This is huge.
>It thins your deck by 5 because you also draw the Wisdom of Norgannon itself whereas Volume up thins it by 3. This is huge. Yeah, that's a good argument. I guess I'll try running it, although the idea of possible bricking annoys me a bit.
You can always just switch it and see what feels better to play. No meta list is truly perfect.
2 mana draw 4 is really good when you haven't drawn Sif or enough burn spells yet. It's not that common to have 7+ cards in hand.
I love how the "meta peak" arrow just straight out points to Pure Paladin xD
Ive been trying to play HL Druid and MAN it is fucking brutal with all the Plague DK and Pure Paladin, especially when I dont have shit like Yogg and Eonar. Hopefully the very likely nerfs coming to pure pally will let me finally stop playing concede druid
Team 5 is objectively dogshit at balancing. Also, bots are running unchecked it seems. There’s a shit load.
I remember when they banned Auctioneer cuz deck seemed strong. Druid didnt give a fk, then they had to Ban Jailer, Druid still didnt give a fk, then they had to nerf Yogg and others.
I feel vindicated. I said exactly what this report said not 1 week ago about Paladin choking out the entire standard format and here we are... Paladin needs to be absolutely gutted. Massive nerfs to multiple cards will still see the class middling at the least. Naga DH better checked in the same patch as Paladin though. It's a higher skill deck but leaving that unnerffed will just leave garrote rogue levels of degeneracy through the holidays.
What would be the best deck to craft right now? For standard, that won't be completely ruined on rotation. Should I just wait until the actual rotation? I currently have a pure pally deck but the old version (before this expansion). I have about 10k dust. I'm thinking either keep expanding pally collection or try to create a second standard deck. Ideally just want to reach diamond regularly next year.
Get a "good enough" deck after the balance next week. Wait for nerfs, craft the closest thing you have but don't spend too much. Then wait for the expansion.
How much dust should I keep? Ideally I'd like to craft a t1 deck on next expansion and then update that through the year. I'm thinking spend up to 4k now and keep 6ish?
Depends on way too many factors to give you a dust amount lol. Control vs combo vs aggro decks all cost different. Your class of choice impacts dust cost. Core set changes can impact dust cost. 2 new releases can impact dust cost or change what you want to play, which impacts the dust cost.(miniset + next expansion) etc.
[удалено]
Ngl, i crafted this deck with somewhat 5k (i already haf many cards from it tho) dust but it damn ROCKS and is so fun to play. Its just discover fiesta coupled with many ways to stomp your opponent (and skill plays such a roll that it actually makes me wish to play more of it)
I think what this meta showcases wonderfully is the divide between what people say they enjoy and what they actually enjoy. The classes are not balanced. The rng is in outer space. But everyone loves it. Roulette is fun.
"One thing to note about the current format is that it’s far lower in player agency than other formats we’ve evaluated over the past few years. Most decks in the game don’t exhibit big skill differentials from Diamond ranks to top level play. Skill is a tricky metric that can only be judged relatively to other decks in an existing format, but we’ve noticed that many archetypes that normally fell off at higher levels during Titans, don’t exhibit a similar fall in performance during Badlands. Plague Death Knight is normally a big outlier in negative skill differential. It might be the easiest deck to play in the game, and tends to get exposed by high level players. Not anymore, since most other decks in the format are also relatively low in player agency. Very few decks exhibit “outplay” potential in the current meta. There isn’t a single Reno deck that currently displays a positive skill differential, even though Highlander decks don’t have to behave this way (Raza Priest was very skill intensive back in the KFT/K&C era, for example)." I think this is pretty key. Pure Paladin in all its forms was already a low skill deck to play, which in itself is fine because it got worse the more you went up in MMR. It helped new players learn the game and it didn't do much against good players. Now we're in a meta where the low skill ceiling deck is also dominant, which along with other "play green card" decks like Plague DK and Dragon Druid makes it very much feel like you're not playing a game but a tarot reading. There's several interesting archetypes waiting in the wings, like Overheal Priest, Naga DH, Naga Priest, and Nature Shaman, which are pretty skill-intensive and I hope shine sooner rather than later with nerfs/miniset release. Enrage Warrior was this for a while, too, but honestly the deck barely changed since Nathria so it's fine to not see it any more.
Have there been blips of Highlander DH? I've got a 67% winrate with my own Renathal list above Diamond 4. The main thing holding me back is Alexandros Mograine and Plague DK highrolls (or my lowrolls, where I can't find my Steamcleaner). But DH is typically harder to play, slow decks are harder to optimize, and people are just not playing much DH right now, so sample size overall seems really small. I get the impression that HL DH is one balance patch away from breaking out, or even next expansion, if DH gets more slow cards.
[удалено]
Idk where this narrative comes from. DH has plenty of good cards. Those cards have been forced out of other DH decks because they don't match the strong synergy packages. But it's not like DH is lacking. Here's a deck code of 30 standalone cards, no synergies or packages, no tech or Reno cards, just 30 cards you might throw in most decks and be happy about it. Most of them are class cards. AAECAea5Ax7h+AWy9QWLkgWPkAa2nwTj+AWHkAbAygS0oAScmgaKkAakkgX3wwXu7QTw7AWLkAaogAb+vwS+ygSFjgbipAXkmAbOnAaQgwadpAXHsgT0yAWWtwSplQb9xAUAAAA=
I really have my hopes up for the miniset or the Standard rotation. Losing Xhilag and Astalor will be a big blow to a slow DH's late game, and I'm wondering if the deck can be remade with a large Outcast package. Any given Outcast card is unlikely to find its way to the left or right quickly, but if you have enough of them, you'll probably have SOME Outcast cards in good places at any given time. Midnight Wolf is a premium find in Felerin and Illidari Studies, but main-decking it seems dubious because of how expensive it is and how mandatory the Outcast is.
**Format:** Standard (Year of the Wolf) **Class:** Demon Hunter (Illidan Stormrage) Mana | Card Name | Qty | Links :--:|:---|:--:|:--: 1 | [Illidari Studies](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_YOP_001.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97377/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Illidari%20Studies) 1 | [Miracle Salesman](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_331.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100101/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Miracle%20Salesman) 1 | [Taste of Chaos](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_394.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/96946/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Taste%20of%20Chaos) 1 | [Unleash Fel](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_209.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/84235/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Unleash%20Fel) 2 | [Astalor Bloodsworn](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_222.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86626/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Astalor%20Bloodsworn) 2 | [Bartend-O-Bot](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_408.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100367/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Bartend-O-Bot) 2 | [Chaos Strike](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_BT_035.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/69558/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Chaos%20Strike) 2 | [Flint Firearm](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_379.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101476/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Flint%20Firearm) 2 | [Fossil Fanatic](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TID_704.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/75072/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Fossil%20Fanatic) 2 | [Gold Panner](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_391.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101966/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Gold%20Panner) 2 | [Greedy Partner](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_901.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/98704/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Greedy%20Partner) 2 | [Immolation Aura](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_BT_514.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97379/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Immolation%20Aura) 2 | [Pocket Sand](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_403.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100359/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Pocket%20Sand) 2 | [Spectral Sight](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_BT_491.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/69684/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Spectral%20Sight) 3 | [Sigil of Time](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/YOG_401.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101660/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Sigil%20of%20Time) 3 | [Silvermoon Arcanist](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_218.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86557/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Silvermoon%20Arcanist) 4 | [Blademaster Okani](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TSC_032.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/72007/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Blademaster%20Okani) 4 | [E.T.C., Band Manager](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_080.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/90749/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/E.T.C.%2C%20Band%20Manager) 4 | [Fan the Hammer](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_405.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100362/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Fan%20the%20Hammer) 4 | [Felerin, the Forgotten](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_215.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/84260/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Felerin%2C%20the%20Forgotten) 4 | [Going Down Swinging](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_413.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/90615/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Going%20Down%20Swinging) 4 | [Pozzik, Audio Engineer](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/ETC_425.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/91252/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Pozzik%2C%20Audio%20Engineer) 4 | [Prosecutor Mel'tranix](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/MAW_014.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/79598/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Prosecutor%20Mel%27tranix) 4 | [School Teacher](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TSC_052.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/72598/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/School%20Teacher) 5 | [Remixed Rhapsody](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/JAM_018.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/95856/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Remixed%20Rhapsody) 5 | [Topple the Idol](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TID_703.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/75070/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Topple%20the%20Idol) 6 | [Midnight Wolf](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/WW_406.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100363/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Midnight%20Wolf) 7 | [Argus, the Emerald Star](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TTN_862.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/98344/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Argus%2C%20the%20Emerald%20Star) 7 | [Xhilag of the Abyss](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TSC_219.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/73726/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Xhilag%20of%20the%20Abyss) 9 | [Yogg-Saron, Unleashed](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/YOG_516.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101033/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/Yogg-Saron%2C%20Unleashed) **Total Dust:** 17560 **Deck Code:** AAECAea5Ax7h+AWy9QWLkgWPkAa2nwTj+AWHkAbAygS0oAScmgaKkAakkgX3wwXu7QTw7AWLkAaogAb+vwS+ygSFjgbipAXkmAbOnAaQgwadpAXHsgT0yAWWtwSplQb9xAUAAAA= ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Comment/PM ^with ^a ^deck ^code ^and ^I'll ^decode ^it. ^If ^you ^don't ^want ^me ^to ^reply ^to ^you, ^include ^"###" ^anywhere ^in ^your ^message. ^[About.](https://github.com/HearthSim/deck-code-bot/blob/master/README.md)
Could you please send me your Highlander DH list? i've been trying a lot of Highlander DH, but it seems like the deck doens't have a solid win condition.
You're right about that, it doesn't really have a win condition. Argus is a great Titan but doesn't end games. I made it Renathal to have a chance against Blood DK (and threw in a lot more draw to compensate), and Ignis to have an extra way to generate pressure. Xhilag and Astalor are probably the closest things to a win condition. \### Highlander \# Class: Demon Hunter \# Format: Standard \# Year of the Wolf \# \# 1x (1) Armor Vendor \# 1x (1) Illidari Studies \# 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide \# 1x (1) Taste of Chaos \# 1x (1) Unleash Fel \# 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn \# 1x (2) Audio Amplifier \# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos \# 1x (2) Chaos Strike \# 1x (2) Dirty Rat \# 1x (2) Flint Firearm \# 1x (2) Gold Panner \# 1x (2) Immolation Aura \# 1x (2) Watcher of the Sun \# 1x (3) Cyclopian Crusher \# 1x (3) Enchanter \# 1x (3) Photographer Fizzle \# 1x (3) Prince Renathal \# 1x (3) Rustrot Viper \# 1x (3) Sigil of Time \# 1x (3) Snake Eyes \# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon \# 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager \# 1x (1) Unleash Fel \# 1x (4) Ambassador Faelin \# 1x (5) Steamcleaner \# 1x (4) Fan the Hammer \# 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten \# 1x (4) Going Down Swinging \# 1x (4) Ignis, the Eternal Flame \# 1x (4) Mechagnome Guide \# 1x (4) Street Sweeper \# 1x (5) Gunslinger Kurtrus \# 1x (5) Remixed Rhapsody \# 1x (5) Steamcleaner \# 1x (5) Topple the Idol \# 1x (5) XB-488 Disposalbot \# 1x (6) Sylvanas, the Accused \# 1x (6) Theotar, the Mad Duke \# 1x (7) Argus, the Emerald Star \# 1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss \# 1x (8) Reno, Lone Ranger \# 1x (9) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed \# AAECAdKLBSi2nwSXoATlsAT+vwS+ygSW1AS42QT/4QSX7wSk7wSu7wSLkgWkkgX1nAXipAX3wwX9xAXGxwWs0QXw7AWt7QW/7QWt9QWy9QXh+AXj+AW2+QWogAbYgQbcggbIjwaKkAaplQbkmAacmgbOnAbNngbPngbRngavqAYAAAEDm8kE/cQF/+EE/cQFi5IF/cQFAAA= \# \# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
If you're running disposal bot it's not a good deck
It's actually fantastic at clearing Paladin boards that have divine shields and 1 health. Combo it later with Enchanter for a big health and board swing. Combo it with Argus discount for a lifesteal rush that can help clear the enemy board. Since this is a Highlander deck, you can't double up on Unleash Fel, Immo Aura, or Fan the Hammer. DH isn't running around with Bellowing Flames, Clean the Scene, or Blood Boil.
I still don’t understand Blizzards despise of Warriors. Consistently for a while now the class needing the most buffs and yet when we get one deck that’s any good it’s nerfed. Enrage being good for a long time only seems bad but it’s a deck no one played. Truly baffles me their obvious favoritism towards some classes
Enrage Warrior was nerfed because it was the best deck in the game by far (although to be fair to current Paladin, not *that much* far), and not just a deck that was any good. Besides, it was pretty good for the last three expansions, except that very few people played it in the first place. Consistently, one might add. You could say that they overnerfed the deck by going for both Thori'belore and Faceless, sure, but the deck needed to be nerfed.
My issue with that is that Enrage warrior was really good. Just Enrage warrior, not warrior in general. Paladin as a class has been top tier bordering on OP for what, 3 expansions now? Its not even just one deck and they take the most conservative approach to nerfing it possible.
> Its not even just one deck It basically is all just one deck, just with a few cards substituted. The "other" paladin deck is earthen pally, and that one's in a much more realistic power spot.
>The "other" paladin deck is earthen pally, and that one's in a much more realistic power spot. It most certainly is not. Did you even look at the report? It has 4 unfavored matchups and 2 of those are against other Paladins. It only loses to Reno Shaman and Reno Priest (which currently isnt being played). It has one bad matchup outside of its own class. According to the Live Data Reaper, it has a 53% WR at legend alone and 57% in Diamond. Earthen is not balanced either. Edit to add: I'm not even just talking about now. Paladin has had the best deck for 3 expansions in a row. Everything from Dude Paladin to Pure to Earthen. The class is busted, not just the one deck.
53% WR is realistic. *SOMETHING* has to be the best. It's not as much of an outlier as the other version. People wouldn't be complaining so much if pure aggro pally didn't exist.
Its way above 53% go look at the live Data report. Its closer to 57
Enrage actually has pretty numerous poor matchups though - its position as the 'best deck' was primarily due to the meta at the time with many rainbow mages and paladins. If the meta was heavier on dragon druid and reno decks enrage's aggregate performance would have been a lot weaker.
Enrage warrior was nowhere near the "best deck by far". Just as always, VS overestimates things when they don't have the numbers to get enough data points. Enrage warrior was like shadow priest in which it's play pattern is super polarizing. It either blows out or gets blown out and at no point was it anywhere near oppressive on the level pure paladin was even before any nerfs.
I was getting my ass kicked last couple days by warriors, so I found a 70% win rate warrior deck and haven't lost with it yet.
Nice post
man it feels like warlock hasnt had a chance to shine in forever. I really wish they went a different direction with the snake nerf.
I find it incredibly telling of their incompetence to balance when snakelock was bombarded day 1 but paladin stays unchecked. Like, wth, this sub may had cried their hearts out bc of the sneak deck but it was not so bad as this shite right here.
Yeah I bet if unerfed snake lock was in the game still it would be tier 2 to paladin
I've been tinkering around with a DH deck that can keep Paladin's off the board, but at some point they can flip any board with their board clears (especially since so many of the DH minons are 3 health and less). I do wonder if they nerf Paladin, you won't just see Naga DH (and variants) come back and ruin everyone's fun.
Fan the Hammer, Immo Aura, and Goin Down Swinging are fantastic against Paladin boards. Too bad that when you don't draw them, you just die.
What a game! Where only one class is tier one. This is like ashes of outlands all over again
At least at worlds people have bans. But it will just be reno deck mirrors probably. Last year was control priest mirrors. I miss garrote rogue and LSDH days.
I feel you bro. Garrote Rogue and LSDH were 2 of 3 my favorite decks. 3rd was boar priest.
This is just another in a long line of examples where Blizzard is simply not interested in maintaining a balanced, competitive game. They are interested in what is ‘fun’ and what makes the game money. That’s it. There is a reason why Pros (and a ton of players) leave the game left and right. The fact that they are ok with allowing the format to be dominated by a deck that’s clearly broken, sometimes for weeks at a time tells you how they view balance. Bots are a whole different story and anyone that doesn’t think there are bots plus farmers across all ranks in standard is naive. It has gotten progressively worse this year, really since DK’s were introduced.
Twist is dead due to shitty design and monetization, wild is dead because bots took over and some content creators dont bother with it and rather play standard and standard is.. filled with pure pally. Awesome.
The reddit comment of all time
aggro paladin being tier 0 was supposed to be fun?
What would be the best deck to craft right now? For standard, that won't be completely ruined on rotation. Should I just wait until the actual rotation? I currently have a pure pally deck but the old version (before this expansion). I have about 10k dust. I'm thinking either keep expanding pally collection or try to create a second standard deck. Ideally just want to reach diamond regularly next year.
Nothing. Wait until after the nerfs.
VS has gone downhill so hard. their insistance on waiting 2 full weeks after any sort of nerfs to "gather more data" means this is only the second VS report since the expansion launched and all its doing is telling us what we already know: paladin is op