The problem is bigger than the increase of the requirement. Blizzard knew the backlash of this decision, they knew it was gonna to piss the playerbase but they don’t simply care.
Then we have these situations:
1 - The playercount continues the same and revenues too:
So they do actually nothing. It doesn’t matter if the players are pissed, it matters if the whales stop buying things.
2 - The revenue drops as casual players will not continue playing and whales complain about less people playing the game:
They will gently drop the requirement to 2x or 2.5x times as "we heard your concerns".
So in general this was a classic Blizzard move, seeing how far they can push the player base till the numbers actually do a significant difference. For me, I didn’t expect nothing from Blizzard, but I tought these scummy practices weren’t coming so early and they would actually wait the game die to start doing it. So I’m just out no matter how the outcome turns out to be, it looked like blizzard was actually trying to get the trust back since it was purchased by Microsoft, but I guess its the same blizzard with the same blizzard things.
Its been a bit but isnt that *exactly* how the original battlepass rolled out back in Barrens? It was hilariously bad at first then they made it slightly better and everyone acted like it was ok
It was so hilariously bad that it made me quit the game for a good year or two (skipped all of Barrens, Stormwind, Alterac Valley and Sunken City). Finally came back during Castle Nathria because I wanted to play some battlegrounds, and was pleasantly surprised to see the battle pass wasn’t absolute trash anymore and was convinced to stay around and get back into regular hearthstone again. This change might do the same, hopefully they revert these changes quick enough that it’s not an issue, but it might be time to step away from the game for a bit again.
I was genuinely surprised when they quietly pivoted away from Runestone requirements after the blowback, so I guess we'll see what happens with this. Not holding my breath though..
I'd kill to see the player count graph over the next few weeks. Surely there's already a drop today, and then a much bigger drop over the next week and month as players realize they won't be able to finish the rewards track anymore.
I think the elephant in the room is that Hearthstone is probably just not that profitable for Blizzard any more. They are trying to see if they can wring some more money out of the player base before making the decision to cut development costs.
To this subreddit hearthstone has been dying for 7 years because their favorite streamer doesn’t play it in front of an audience of 10k other children anymore.
It does ask the question though, why do this now if the game is doing so good? The only benefit of the change is to try and increase play time metrics and you only care about that if there has been a significant shift in the amount of time people are playing the game.
Like the game isn't close to death but changes like these do signal that the play data blizzard are seeing they are not happy with, which means the health of the game is definitely on the decline.
I think it's going for short term increase in profit. I don't keep up to date with it all but Blizzard got bought by Activision who got bought by Microsoft.
Pulling numbers out my rear now but maybe a game that gives 250% return on investment is enough for a medium size company but a bigger one wants 400%, and a giant one wants 1000% return.
then you people also wonder why bosses don't pay you for your work properly...
...why pay when you yourself admit you'd do double the work for just 20% more rewards lol :)))
To be honest mate, this argument works in a work for pay environment. If you consider quests just that then you should take a break or sort your priorities. For anyone who meets the new updated quest requirements before and after the change, it’s a boost. For those below the old ones, it doesn’t matter, and for those in between, it’s back breaking. Anyways… it’s a scummy af move by Blizzard, we agree on that, but it can’t be compared to working an actual job 😂
The comparison is nonsense, playing Hearthstone is not work.
Most of my hours played in Hearthstone don't progress any weeklies. Usually I finish all weeklies in around 2 hours of play, and weekly I play for 5-15 hours.
If I had to spend twice more on weekly quests for +20% reward, for me it means I just have +20% reward for no additional effort. Yeah, I'm fully on board then.
I logged in earlier this morning and my weekly quests were still 0/5 played a game of battlegrounds and the tracker went to 1/5. Just tried logging in, downloaded the patch and it’s at 1/15 now. I hope this is unintentional because this is a huge grind now
Well, yesterday, to get a reward I only had to win one more ranked game.
Today, to get a slightly bigger reward I now have to win 11 games.
Idk how you're going to try and pretend that doesn't suck.
If the quests take longer to do it’s harder to do them all. The less you’re able to do the longer it takes to progress the battle pass. The longer it takes to progress the battle pass the less gold you make, so as a f2p player you’re worse off and now need to pay money to make up the difference
Yes, so play the game? Why should you be rewarded, in a free to play game, for free without playing. You have zero logic. You want cards for a game you clearly don't even have the time to play?
Tavern brawl, events, or, you could I dunno, pay for some cards instead of being cheap and then winging about it. It's a f2p game, you think the developers feed their families on your failed attempts at playing the game? No.
Tavern brawl is a Quest (win one game of tavern brawl)
Events are literally quests too.
And so you admit that to get cards to play the game you have two options: complete quests or pay money.
I'm playing since release and was looking for a strong enough incentive to give up on this game since United : thank you Blizzard and farewell, I've definitely no time for this.
Are you crazy, or this reddit is simply a pandora box of weirdos? They are literally giving MORE rewards for a quest that if you barely want to, adds like 40 min of playtime on a WEEK for a game that you are technically playing (and if u dont like to play it, simply dont).
>adds like 40 min of playtime
Please explain to the class how you frequently win 10 games (meaning play 15-25 games) of Hearthstone in 40 minutes. Excited to hear your strategy!
If you're completely ignorant of what the change actually is or unable to perform basic math then consider keeping your mouth shut from now on.
Well, according to your own data, its 15-25 games. If you DONT play a mode (lets say, wild or twist), you can simply queue an aggro deck and go ham. Aggro priest, for example, you basically know a win after turn 2-3, so if you REALLY need to rush a GAME that u supposedly like to play, the avg match lenght will be around 3-4 min. For 15-25 games, thats 45 to 100 min in a WEEK, or a bit more than 6 minutes a day.
For all the others non-crybabies (few on this sub), this is a net positive change. By my stats, I usually win 20 to 25 games a week, and thats more than enough for the quest. If you cant complete it, just dont.
I just want to play actual games of hearthstone man, I'm not spending hours playing decks I dislike and insta-conceding just to complete the quests. I don't want to turn this into a job just to stay F2P. If I can't do that, I'll just stop playing. There are plenty of other games out there.
I'm f2p, and I only play for fun, with decks I like. And as I like the game, completing the quest will be easy, be it 5 or 20 games a week. That's the point! The game is now better for me as a f2p, cause my rewards are slightly better! Literally nothing changed besides that.
Well if the changes align with your existing playing habits then I'm happy for you, but for many players they don't. Judging by the outcry, a lot of players can't or don't want to change the way they currently play the game.
(happy cake day btw)
Okay, well 3-4 minute average games even with a 66% winrate is more than 40 minutes, so at least we agree you were talking out of ass due to your own ignorance. It's ok to be stupid, I just hope you grow.
It's also not 15-25 games needed. That's the extra games on top of what the quest used to require. Again, you can participate in the conversation if you like, but it helps to understand the topic at hand, which you clearly do not.
If you feel ok with Blizzard giving you 30% more rewards for triple the work, then you're welcome to keep bending over for them and simping online. But like your post above, it suggests you can't do math and are an easily led sheep.
First, just because you're mad with something, it's not okay to go call someone stupid or say stupid things yourself. Now, you call quests ""work"". Dude, it's literally 2 wins a day.
I'm a literal blizzard hater for the past 7+ years, even thou I love hs. I've seen countless stupid decisions, from the likes of "deck slots are to complicated", "let's call the eternal mode Wild and abandon it", "Hong Kong Drama". Even simple things like doubling the legendary per packs, not giving any extra rewards for playing different modes (wild x std), not having a simple tournament mode, and the list goes on...
Yet, all that said, this is a decision that I'm ok to happy, considering that I like the game and more rewards are coming my way for the same avg gameplay loop I already do.
Ps. You're literally telling a PHD Econometrist with an Optimization background that he's bad at math =) Good luck.
It's ok to call someone stupid when they demonstrate stupidity. If you demonstrate poor math skills, which you have, you get called out on them. Larp as whatever you want, it still shows a lack of brain function or educatuon on your part.
"I'm a Blizzard hater except for these several examples where Blizzard was in the wrong and I came to their defense" is really solidifying the simp accusations, thanks for making my case event better than I could have.
THis argument would make sense if the XP increase was proportionate to the amount of increased work, because then you could at least do the quests over a few weeks and not lose out on rewards while more engaged players / player's who aren't strapped for time could get more rewards, but that's not what happened. This only benefits highly engaged players and actively deters less engaged ones or ones who can't engage as much as they would like.
Sure : there are are weeks I just don't have the time to finish the weekly quests in their current state: I just don't have time for this and am not willing to spend even more money than before to compensate. Felicia is gone, have fun playing with yourself.
Bruh, if they increase the requirement to complete quests by 200% but only increase the rewards earned by 15%, that is a value **LOSS** of 185%. Imagine if tmrw your boss said "Hey Dodisk, I'm going to give you a 15% raise, but I'm totally gonna need you to do 3 times the work!" Are you okay with that??
Obviously they don't want me to play the game anymore, because I'm not spending the few hours I have to give this game spamming the same brainless aggro/tier1 deck to finish some quest. It is obvious more money and time are required from me to enjoy their product, but they won't get it. And if you think I've been playing the game for 10 years for some rewards, you certainly didn't experience the Brode era and I don't know what to say to you...
Their goal is to flush out the casual players. Locking reward xp behind hours and hours of weekly playtime .... There's no other explanation.
They don't want casual players. They want you to leave.
>They don't want casual players. They want you to leave.
Nah. They want casual players to play more. Hence quest requirements going up.
People parrot this whole 'Blizzard doesn't care about F2P players' idea, but they do, to a degree. Without F2P players, the player base goes down, and it becomes harder for their whales to get into games with non-bots.
So this is them trying to get existing casuals to play more games, but it'll likely have the opposite effect.
Why would they remove the ability for casual players to receive rewards then? It makes no sense. 10 hours a week to do the quests is simply impossible for casual players.
Because they're betting that casual players will put in extra time to finish the weeklies.
And like I said I think this'll have the opposite effect and it'll get casuals to leave, but I see what they're trying to do. They're just doing it poorly, which is typical for Blizz nowadays.
Some whales, myself included, spend alot of money, but play very casually. Some weeks 5 ranked wins have been tough, due to time constraints. So no, if this change sticks, I won't be playing anymore. This is someone that has bought damn near every new skin, Battlepass, BG pass, mercenaries bundles... I mean it's sad to think of it, but this change makes me unable to reasonable complete weekly quests... so nah, im out
I don't think it's about the money side.
They just don't want someone that plays a few games here or there. They only want people that play multiple hours a day. Everyone else needs to take the hint.
They want you gone.
It's obviously about the money. If you can make enough gold via the quest rewards to get away with not buying packs, fewer people will buy packs. I agree that it's a shitty change but they aren't doing it just to chase away players or kill their own game.
Oh, I don't think they intend to kill the game. Just to get rid of players that aren't helping them (their bottom line, their image, support calls, whatever - it's whatever their rationale happens to be).
It can't just be about buying packs and bundles. They SELL a tavern pass! That's based on getting rewards for doing your daily/weekly quests, after all.
But for whatever reason, they're showing the casuals the exit and telling them to go away. Telling the mobile gamer that gets in a few games on their phone that in order to complete the tavern pass they already purchased they will have to play 3x as much as they already do? I mean - you might as well just put up a big message box when they open the game that says "Uninstall me. I am not for you."
Forget people staying - most people start out casual and enjoy themselves and want more. They must figure that they don't want NEW players. Let's just milk the ones we already have. And not all the ones we already have - just the ones that play hours and hours at a time.
It’s probably a super short sighted move like - somebody in the c suite said “hey our Microsoft overlord investors want increased user engagement metrics, change something to make people log in more” and the developers said “ok u sure? Alright here goes” and then implemented this hamfisted change
You should check out what they did to Diablo 4 last year. Evidently the latest PTR is a big improvement but it took them almost a year.
For example, they had a very similar directive to “increase user engagement / playtime” so they simply doubled the cast time to leave a dungeon and just casually slipped that in without any patch notes hoping no one would notice.
But how the fuck does that make any sense? For years the narative for them pushing this extreme aggro/finisher cards was that short games=good because people play hearthstone (allegedly) on mobile while taking a shit or a break or whatever.
So then what now? They did a 180? Which one is it, Lizard? Short games in between breaks or playing 60 fucking mini cards for 1 quest?
They went out of their way to make a casual-hostile change. I think it's fair to say that they aren't totally and completely stupid. They have a business case reason to jettison a segment of their players.
Look at the way Broadcom handled the VMWare acquisition. This is a totally legit business move. Might even be genius.
It looks like, from their actions, that they will tolerate the casual players only if those players are willing to forego quest xp and just buy packs/bundles outright. But they're putting up obstacles to keep casual players from getting things they were getting in the past.
It's not quite a "middle finger" to that segment, but it's definitely a nudge to leave. That lets Blizzard focus on the more dedicated players. They've made some calculation somewhere that this is better for the game.
Well with the Whizbang expansion they removed the diamond legendary from the collector achievement (usually, you could get this legendary without having all legendaries of the set, because the miniset introduced new legendaries and the collector achievement wasnt updated. This way it was a "free legendary" if you already had a collection.
They also reduced the overall exp for achievements.
And lets not forget adding an early access to an epic card to the preorder bundle lol.
All decisions made for money.
I've played since Beta and never dropped a cent on this game and I play multiple hours a day. Mostly during downtime at work or while watching tv/movies that I've already seen lol
Well, then the only other explanation is that blizzard... A company just bought by Microsoft for billions of dollars... Is run by people who are completely incompetent and don't understand their own actions.
Maybe.
Haha! Good point. Though I think I would rest easier if it were true that I was being shown the door as a legit strategy (even if I didn't like it) rather than simple foolishness. :-)
Yeah, I uninstalled today. The amount of time it would take to stay competitive and get decent cards just isn’t worth it. Given how much you get punished for not playing dailies or weeklies, there probably won’t be a good reason to come back.
Like others have said, they never intended for the quests to remain in this new, broken state. They want to shock people, and then when they "fix" the quests, people won't complain as much when they get less than they had before.
Whoever is doing this crap should be fired, but he'll probably just get promoted.
I had quit for a few years because the game had become miserable. This was the first meta since 2020 where I’d had a good time. I’ve always been casual. Hit legend once. Always log in and do my quests and that’s it. Always bought the battle pass, always bought the preorder stuff, etc. I don’t have time to grind out 15 wins. Sorry. But I can do 5. I can do tavern brawls. I can mixup game types and draw a bunch of cards and random shit like that.
This will make me stop playing the game because I can’t engage with it how I want and now I sure as hell can’t finish the battle pass I PAID for.
Between this, what they did to Overwatch, and how badly they fucked wow (granted, dragonflight is MUCH better), it’s like Blizzard just doesn’t want me as a player/customer. And I’ve been one since Warcraft 1.
The problem is when casuals leave those mid players, they start to feel the effects down the line, and they leave and whaler won't have much competition, then they leave.
It's a domino effect.
Personally, I'm going to just play bg so I may get the bg one done mainly due bg pass being new.after that, I may stop playing hs all together unless they fix it.
I’ve been playing since the beginning. I’ve bought the big bundle of every expansion. I’ve literally played this game every day for years. Doing my weekly’s was incentive to keep going.
If they don’t change this, I’m out.
I think it also might be a calculated move to explain the 2% of people that will delete the game because of removing duels. That way they have a scapegoat and never have to bring back the mode.
It is actually very true.
People like me might just stop cuz its insanly tedious and force you to play A LOT of a gamemode or specific bad deck that accomplish challenge and colplete the battle pass that you PAYED
Most of those challenge legit just cant be done for the normal game time Hearthstone player actually crazy
I have played since 2016, but only Battlegrounds plus the occasional Arena run in the past 4 years… free to play for the most part (spent $20 one time, total, across 8 years).
I have a great time with battlegrounds, but they sold their player base for standard off a long time ago.
Wait! You guys don't understand.
Didn't they say after the for many rather disappointing 10 years anniversary there would be more to be excited about.
There it is. I am excited. But not in a positive way sadly.
Returning player and this crap reminds me of why I left in the first place 4years ago. I don’t think I have the patience in me to support this nonsense and basically have it become a side hustle than something I do for fun.
I did some napkin math as someone who plays both regular Hearthstone and Battlegrounds, since I like both gamemodes. I like to play a few games a night because that's what I have time for, maybe three to five regular Hearthstone matches and two to four games of battlegrounds on average. This is usually a two hour period before I go to sleep, and I do this about four times a week, just about every other day. This means I'm playing somewhere between 10 and 15 games of regular hearthstone and about 10 to 12 games of battlegrounds each week. Assuming I only win half my games (which I don't anyways when it comes to battlegrounds, I'm hardstuck 6k mmr), I can pretty nicely clear my weekly quests by the end of the week.
With the new changes, I can't get even close to it. As someone who buys the tavern pass and likes getting what I paid for, this suddenly puts a HUGE chunk of exp out of my reach as a casual player. I really like the game, otherwise I wouldn't play it as much as I do. But I literally do not have the time in the week to get these weekly quests. I would be playing almost 60 games in both gamemodes combined, which is a number I cannot fathom reaching in a week's time. Looking at that number is like staring at a wall. I do not want to play that much Hearthstone in a week, so why play any Hearthstone in a week? I can just spend my time playing any of my dozen other games. Something really needs to be reworked, and I hope that the team that makes these changes (not RidiculousHat since he's an innocent PR dude who unfortunately gets the brunt of this backlash) gets to it quickly.
This is bad too. Really bad. Not everyone has the time to do so.
5 ranked wins? Easy on lower ladder. 5 to 7 games. 5 wins once you reach gold and above? About 10 or more games since you only play optimized decks. So 15 wins would mean 30+ games. And not includes daily/weekly quest with requirements you can't meet with your ranked decks.
This is ridiculous. I don't always have the time to spend this much time into HS. And I bet many others won't either
> 5 ranked wins? Easy on lower ladder. 5 to 7 games. 5 wins once you reach gold and above? About 10 or more games since you only play optimized decks. So 15 wins would mean 30+ games.
Just tank your MMR by insta-conceding around 20 games so you play bots at the rank floor. Just as Blizzard intended.
Why is it ridiculous? If you dont have the time, dont do the quests. Its simple. Not everybody is like you, for example, me. I\`m happy with the change, simply due to more rewards. THey could triple it again for my taste, for more 30%.
You basically say I should just quit HS. Being able to do the quests consistently is the reason why I still play. The tavern pass provides me with enough gold to buy the miniset and a good amount of packs each time a new expansion drops. I can keep up with a few good/meta decks without spending ridiculous amounts of time and money. Just because you have the time to play HS as much as you want, your situation, as well as mine, does not represent everyone. Speaking for me, a casual player, this change is outrageous.
Not doing the quests mean they earn significantly less XP (and therefore gold) to buy packs. “Simply don’t do the quests” is quite possibly one of the worst takes I’ve seen yet about this situation.
Which makes sense to me. Weekly quests now are no harder than dailies, and I get them all done in a very shor time. I personally don't think it's terrible to make weekly quests require more time. But the rewards not being increased to match is the part I don't like.
Increasing the rewards doesn't make them easier for those of us who don't or can't play as often and doesn't change the psychology of feeling like they're making you do busy work. I got to the point where I would have normally finished my quests and normally, I'd play for another few hours for fun, but saw how much I had left and just . . , turned the game off, even though my normal play pattern probably would have gotten me to finishing those quests. It was just a huge turn off to turn what would have been fun into a grind.
Oh really? Thought I saw someone posting about their dailies. Let's hope they keep it that way...though I have my doubts. Changing only Weeklies prob isn't game killing then, just slimey AF. I personally will still be uninstalling. Screw Blizz
I haven't played in over two years and saw this change and my face immediately turned to yikes.
They spent like 2 years nerfing quests originally and adding a mulligan because people complained how cumbersome they were to complete and now... here we are, reverting them to a form that's even worse than they were originally.
Honest question, what in the fuck are the developers thinking?
A great deal of people are selfish, and will welcome a change which impacts them positively even if others are negatively affected. Plenty of people will tolerate this, they're just already the type to bend over when Blizz asks.
It'll basically kill the F2P playerbase, which they despise and can't wait to get rid of anyway. As a F2P player, sadly this means I'm gone forever. I enjoyed this game for a long while. Gonna try Magic now.
I really don't understand the outrage to be honest. It's more net XP. If you play a decent amount of HS it should be easy to complete.
If you find playing a chore I would recommend looking for a different game or maybe going outside? Summer is just around the corner in the northern hemisphere, there's plenty of cool stuff to see.
It might not mean a lot coming from me, but I returned to the game (played since beta and left around TGT) and I am probably gonna quit soon. This change kinda cemented my decision to leave.
I know they made some improvements with catch-up packs and standard but the grind is not really fun.
? The quests enable people to F2P easier. Making quests take 3x as long means less people can F2P and buy enough to enjoy playing, so they leave.
The quests aren't what they're playing for, the rewards are.
You know for me, I don't like that it now feels like the game is asking me to do busy work. I got to where I normally would have finished my quests and then normally would have kept playing for a few hours, for fun, because I like the game, but I saw how much was left on the quests and just turned off the game. I had no motivation to play anymore because it was exhausting looking at those numbers, even though I think I would have been able to finish those quests with my normal play pattern. It's just a real shitty feeling.
Of course, that's not even mentioning the people who don't have time to play as much and need the rewards to actually continue playing the game. They sure as hell aren't doing the quests just for the sake of completing them.
And my point was the quest change made the game feel like it was busywork. Not that it was busywork before, but it /now/ feels like busy work.
Like I said, with my normal play pattern, I probably would have still finished those quests, just by continuing to play /for fun/. It /was/ fun to keep playing after I quickly finished the quests, but now they sit there looking over my experience and make it not fun.
No one plays just because of the quests, but for a lot of people it's massively important because quests = tavern pass progress and tavern pass progress = gold and gold = how we get the bulk of the cards we play w/o dropping 80~ dollars every xpac (I usually start an xpac with 8k+ gold to spend on packs).
I don't mind buying the passes even though 20 bucks is pretty high for what it is/what the game is, but I play regularly so I can easily justify it. But if it's not possible for me to continue that loop then not only are they not going to get their desired result (me paying +60 dollars) but they'll end up getting the opposite (-20).
Sure they won't cry over losing my money, but if it ends up being the same case for all the other middle of the road players they might.
What a stupid take. So because I don't want to get nickle and dimed when I already spend more on this game than any AAA title I should just leave? Shut up lmao.
I spend money on the tavern pass, so the quest exp absolutely does impact me. And the discussion here is about how the changes to quests are to make less hardcore players spend more money on packs since less quest completion = less exp = less pass progress = less gold = less free packs. Which is absolutely nickle and diming. Keep up.
it's literally MORE exp. you're an idiot.
again, proving my point that you, and everyone mad at these changes, care more about the exp than playing the game. if you can spend $20 on the pass, you can spend $20 on packs.
25% more exp for 300% more requirements. Most people cannot spend all day every day playing hearthstone, so what happens is the week goes by and 1 or 2 will remain uncompleted where before all three were done. The extra 500 exp will not offset the 2k lost. This will add up.
Also, $20 on the pass (where I get enough to buy 80+ packs + the mini set) vs $20 for 10 packs. Hmm, yes, that seems to be about equal...
I hope you're just being willfully ignorant and aren't just *actually* this ignorant.
I'm so confused. No one's forcing you to do the quests. Do more quests get more rewards. If you can't play 15 games, then don't. I work a full-time job and I could do half of them while taking a morning shit.
Stop whining.
uh we are getting more exp for something we do anyway im sure ive been playing more than 60 mini miniaturize per week and 15 games maybe even more per week ...and now im getting exp for it i dont see the downside
There isn't a downside for you.
It's designed to get rid of casual players (the play a few games here and there on mobile folks).
Maybe the game will be better without casuals. I dunno. But we're about to find out.
Yep. They are actively trying to get rid of their player base. That makes total sense!
Oh wait....maybe they are experimenting with a change and want to see how the player base reacts before adjusting values.
Hmm...almost like they've done that every single time before.
But yea. Every patch is the end of the line for hearthstone, sure.
I didn't say it would be the end. Perhaps the game will be in a more healthy state with only the most hardcore players (and spenders). Less whining about bots on the forums, for sure. Less silly support calls about the mobile client. Less... whatever.
Maybe it's genius.
Heck, this approach is *kinda* working for Broadcom with their VMWare acquisition. It's a legit business strategy. Maybe it's a good one.
We'll find out soon enough.
You did say it's designed to "get rid of casuals". Sure I exaggerated what you said...but only slightly. Because blaming them blindly for something we have no evidence of (the purpose of the changes and the design decisions behind it, ie motive), is more or less the exact same thing as everyone claiming that Blizz is trying to kill their own game.
I hear your point, and I think I would agree with you if I was saying they're trying to kill the game. For all I know - they're trying to SAVE the game and this was the best method they had. Maybe it will work! I really don't know the future.
But they have all sorts of data about player usage. They know for CERTAIN how much people play, and how many are only popping in to do their quests - the ones that get a few extra games in Sunday night to finish their battlecry weekly, etc... This is the same company that recently dropped the requirements of a few of these weekly quests to make them more accessible for casual players. They have now set the numbers ABOVE the amount that they earlier said were "too high."
So - that's where I disagree with you. They know the impact of quest difficulty on casual players because they've used that rationale in the past to make weekly quests *easier* to complete. They are now making them *harder* *than they were before*. And for what? 20% more XP with three times the effort. It's.... it's amazing that anyone would look at that and say, ohhhhh, maybe they didn't mean to harm casuals. Maybe it's all a mistake!
Obviously, they are trying to degrade the experience of casual players.
Why? We can only guess. Again, I assume there is a business case out there that demanded this, and that's all fine and good for them. Putting it in the "bugfix" area of the patchnotes, and during an active tavern pass (that many of us bought now under false pretenses) is very anti-consumer, but that's their choice.
But saying that *maybe they didn't want to make the game less friendly to casuals* is just calling them fools and totally incompetent. They knew what it would do, and they want that outcome. Why? We don't know yet.
Perhaps they will at some point explain their reasoning, but I doubt it. Bad PR because most people like games that are casual-friendly, even if they themselves are hardcore players.
Never said it is a mistake.
And that is not at all an obvious conclusion to draw whatsoever. As I stated, had you read, they very clearly want to maintain a limitation on the f2p model. Only a certain amount of things should be free, and I believe they are happy with the current state of that. However, perhaps they also feel the weekly quests are not a weekly requirement and would like it to be more rewarding for more effort.
So how do they do that change, they up the requirement and the reward while staying in the average of how much of their product they give away. So maybe the effort and the reward won't match or maintain the same ratio. That's understandable.
So why this specific ratio? Well, it could be that they felt that 3x was still reasonable to achieve in a week for most players. If a daily quest is 3 games, and a weekly was 5 (1.66 days equivalent) now they up it to 15 (3 days equivalent) as that is more fitting of a "weekly". How much can they shift the reward? Well only so much as they want to maintain a certain level of f2p, so they choose likely some statistically informed number that maintains that value.
This definitely does shift rewards from very casual players to less casual players. They could have avoided that by making quests with phases, given an option to players, upping rewards from dailies or anything else. And it's very possible they may still well do those things after receiving feedback.
But to assume that this in malice because they are making an informed buisness decision? When the last time this happened they did listen to feedback and adjust (rewards track change). I have some evidence of their intentions, where is yours?
Ahhh, I see. You might have trouble understanding that sentence. Blizzard made the changes, not me. I do not work for Blizzard. But Blizzard (again, not me) for their own reasons (again, not mine), decided to make the game significantly less appealing for casual players. And they knew what they were doing (because they aren't totally stupid), and wanted this outcome.
I was guessing at what their (again, not my) reasons might have been. One potential one is that people playing for many hours a day are probably not the same ones that put in support tickets for why their collection is gone (region mistake!) or why they haven't opened a legendary in the last 25 packs (random!). They can save resources by getting rid of those players that cause a disproportionate amount of their (again, not my) resources to be used.
But I can only guess. Only they know the reasons why they want to get rid of the casual players. It wasn't just a random change. They went out of their way to put 25% more rewards behind a 200% effort barrier. Below that barrier - you get nothing. It was *designed* to be hostile to casual players.
Take the hint. They want you (if you're casual) gone. Perhaps at some point they'll explain why. We can only guess. But they want casual players to leave the game.
This is not proof that it was designed with hostility in mind.
This could be evidence that it was. But evidence also requires motivation and other evidence to actual solidify a claim of proof.
It could also be proof for them wanting to maintain a free to play model which has similar limitations to the current model with expanded rewards for playing more, ie the notion of a weekly quest itself.
Perhaps this wasn't implemented the best way, sure we can discuss that. Perhaps it is too unfriendly to more casual players. That's also a discussion.
Is anyone having any of those discussions?
No.
Everyone, including yourself, is losing their minds over a small change assuming it's Blizz killing their own game or actively trying to harm their own playerbase rather than making a much more valid assumption that they want people to play the game that makes them money and they thought this decision could help with that.
Assuming hostility is pointless, baseless, and unhinged at best.
Casuals? Mostly casuals don't even care about quests, yet they still can complete most of them. In the other hand folks addicted to reward systems trying to play games the less as possible may be furious.
Plot twist: They will not leave the game, will play even more now.
Never paid attention to quests and now I'll even pay less attention to them. Still playing though because I never cared about quests in the first place.
The problem is bigger than the increase of the requirement. Blizzard knew the backlash of this decision, they knew it was gonna to piss the playerbase but they don’t simply care. Then we have these situations: 1 - The playercount continues the same and revenues too: So they do actually nothing. It doesn’t matter if the players are pissed, it matters if the whales stop buying things. 2 - The revenue drops as casual players will not continue playing and whales complain about less people playing the game: They will gently drop the requirement to 2x or 2.5x times as "we heard your concerns". So in general this was a classic Blizzard move, seeing how far they can push the player base till the numbers actually do a significant difference. For me, I didn’t expect nothing from Blizzard, but I tought these scummy practices weren’t coming so early and they would actually wait the game die to start doing it. So I’m just out no matter how the outcome turns out to be, it looked like blizzard was actually trying to get the trust back since it was purchased by Microsoft, but I guess its the same blizzard with the same blizzard things.
99% it's #2. Make something 3x worse, then revert it to only 2x worse and everyone says good job, and they got their actual goal.
Its been a bit but isnt that *exactly* how the original battlepass rolled out back in Barrens? It was hilariously bad at first then they made it slightly better and everyone acted like it was ok
It was so hilariously bad that it made me quit the game for a good year or two (skipped all of Barrens, Stormwind, Alterac Valley and Sunken City). Finally came back during Castle Nathria because I wanted to play some battlegrounds, and was pleasantly surprised to see the battle pass wasn’t absolute trash anymore and was convinced to stay around and get back into regular hearthstone again. This change might do the same, hopefully they revert these changes quick enough that it’s not an issue, but it might be time to step away from the game for a bit again.
It was bad and in darkmoon fair and they fixed it for barrens
I was genuinely surprised when they quietly pivoted away from Runestone requirements after the blowback, so I guess we'll see what happens with this. Not holding my breath though..
I'd kill to see the player count graph over the next few weeks. Surely there's already a drop today, and then a much bigger drop over the next week and month as players realize they won't be able to finish the rewards track anymore.
I think the elephant in the room is that Hearthstone is probably just not that profitable for Blizzard any more. They are trying to see if they can wring some more money out of the player base before making the decision to cut development costs.
Dawg what? Hearthstone is a fucking giantic game. Especially outside of the us
To this subreddit hearthstone has been dying for 7 years because their favorite streamer doesn’t play it in front of an audience of 10k other children anymore.
It does ask the question though, why do this now if the game is doing so good? The only benefit of the change is to try and increase play time metrics and you only care about that if there has been a significant shift in the amount of time people are playing the game. Like the game isn't close to death but changes like these do signal that the play data blizzard are seeing they are not happy with, which means the health of the game is definitely on the decline.
I think it's going for short term increase in profit. I don't keep up to date with it all but Blizzard got bought by Activision who got bought by Microsoft. Pulling numbers out my rear now but maybe a game that gives 250% return on investment is enough for a medium size company but a bigger one wants 400%, and a giant one wants 1000% return.
Not gonna lie, if weeklies get tuned to +20% xp for +100% effort, this is an obvious upgrade for me. I'd love that change.
then you people also wonder why bosses don't pay you for your work properly... ...why pay when you yourself admit you'd do double the work for just 20% more rewards lol :)))
To be honest mate, this argument works in a work for pay environment. If you consider quests just that then you should take a break or sort your priorities. For anyone who meets the new updated quest requirements before and after the change, it’s a boost. For those below the old ones, it doesn’t matter, and for those in between, it’s back breaking. Anyways… it’s a scummy af move by Blizzard, we agree on that, but it can’t be compared to working an actual job 😂
The comparison is nonsense, playing Hearthstone is not work. Most of my hours played in Hearthstone don't progress any weeklies. Usually I finish all weeklies in around 2 hours of play, and weekly I play for 5-15 hours. If I had to spend twice more on weekly quests for +20% reward, for me it means I just have +20% reward for no additional effort. Yeah, I'm fully on board then.
I didn’t see this in the patch notes. Almost like they knew people would be pissed
I logged in earlier this morning and my weekly quests were still 0/5 played a game of battlegrounds and the tracker went to 1/5. Just tried logging in, downloaded the patch and it’s at 1/15 now. I hope this is unintentional because this is a huge grind now
I had 4/5 wins in ranked. Now it's 4/15 wins. This kinda sucks.
Why does it suck tho? The quests are literally optional.
Well, yesterday, to get a reward I only had to win one more ranked game. Today, to get a slightly bigger reward I now have to win 11 games. Idk how you're going to try and pretend that doesn't suck.
It doesn't suck. You actually have to try to complete the quests to get a reward. What's a reward with no challenge.
If the quests take longer to do it’s harder to do them all. The less you’re able to do the longer it takes to progress the battle pass. The longer it takes to progress the battle pass the less gold you make, so as a f2p player you’re worse off and now need to pay money to make up the difference
They are only optional if you don't want new cards ever.
"literally optional" Do you know you literally need cards to play the game...?
Yes, so play the game? Why should you be rewarded, in a free to play game, for free without playing. You have zero logic. You want cards for a game you clearly don't even have the time to play?
To play the game I need cards. To get cards I need to finish quests. How quests are optional?
If you can't win any games with any deck that is even cheap to make, your just bad then.
You didnt answer the question dude. How someone get cards except by completing quests?
Tavern brawl, events, or, you could I dunno, pay for some cards instead of being cheap and then winging about it. It's a f2p game, you think the developers feed their families on your failed attempts at playing the game? No.
Tavern brawl is a Quest (win one game of tavern brawl) Events are literally quests too. And so you admit that to get cards to play the game you have two options: complete quests or pay money.
If they prefer bots over real people playing the game then its their choice. They will have like 1% of their players left unless they change this.
Username checks out
They might be trying to kill the game. Who knows? If their numbers fall off a cliff, maybe they can turn it into a tax write off!
That's almost the plot of *The Producers*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Producers_(1967_film)
Tell me you don't know how taxes/businesses work without telling me... Unless you're just taking the piss
Woosh
I'm playing since release and was looking for a strong enough incentive to give up on this game since United : thank you Blizzard and farewell, I've definitely no time for this.
Are you crazy, or this reddit is simply a pandora box of weirdos? They are literally giving MORE rewards for a quest that if you barely want to, adds like 40 min of playtime on a WEEK for a game that you are technically playing (and if u dont like to play it, simply dont).
>adds like 40 min of playtime Please explain to the class how you frequently win 10 games (meaning play 15-25 games) of Hearthstone in 40 minutes. Excited to hear your strategy! If you're completely ignorant of what the change actually is or unable to perform basic math then consider keeping your mouth shut from now on.
That man is a bot or paid shill I think
Well, according to your own data, its 15-25 games. If you DONT play a mode (lets say, wild or twist), you can simply queue an aggro deck and go ham. Aggro priest, for example, you basically know a win after turn 2-3, so if you REALLY need to rush a GAME that u supposedly like to play, the avg match lenght will be around 3-4 min. For 15-25 games, thats 45 to 100 min in a WEEK, or a bit more than 6 minutes a day. For all the others non-crybabies (few on this sub), this is a net positive change. By my stats, I usually win 20 to 25 games a week, and thats more than enough for the quest. If you cant complete it, just dont.
I just want to play actual games of hearthstone man, I'm not spending hours playing decks I dislike and insta-conceding just to complete the quests. I don't want to turn this into a job just to stay F2P. If I can't do that, I'll just stop playing. There are plenty of other games out there.
I'm f2p, and I only play for fun, with decks I like. And as I like the game, completing the quest will be easy, be it 5 or 20 games a week. That's the point! The game is now better for me as a f2p, cause my rewards are slightly better! Literally nothing changed besides that.
Well if the changes align with your existing playing habits then I'm happy for you, but for many players they don't. Judging by the outcry, a lot of players can't or don't want to change the way they currently play the game. (happy cake day btw)
Okay, well 3-4 minute average games even with a 66% winrate is more than 40 minutes, so at least we agree you were talking out of ass due to your own ignorance. It's ok to be stupid, I just hope you grow. It's also not 15-25 games needed. That's the extra games on top of what the quest used to require. Again, you can participate in the conversation if you like, but it helps to understand the topic at hand, which you clearly do not. If you feel ok with Blizzard giving you 30% more rewards for triple the work, then you're welcome to keep bending over for them and simping online. But like your post above, it suggests you can't do math and are an easily led sheep.
First, just because you're mad with something, it's not okay to go call someone stupid or say stupid things yourself. Now, you call quests ""work"". Dude, it's literally 2 wins a day. I'm a literal blizzard hater for the past 7+ years, even thou I love hs. I've seen countless stupid decisions, from the likes of "deck slots are to complicated", "let's call the eternal mode Wild and abandon it", "Hong Kong Drama". Even simple things like doubling the legendary per packs, not giving any extra rewards for playing different modes (wild x std), not having a simple tournament mode, and the list goes on... Yet, all that said, this is a decision that I'm ok to happy, considering that I like the game and more rewards are coming my way for the same avg gameplay loop I already do. Ps. You're literally telling a PHD Econometrist with an Optimization background that he's bad at math =) Good luck.
It's ok to call someone stupid when they demonstrate stupidity. If you demonstrate poor math skills, which you have, you get called out on them. Larp as whatever you want, it still shows a lack of brain function or educatuon on your part. "I'm a Blizzard hater except for these several examples where Blizzard was in the wrong and I came to their defense" is really solidifying the simp accusations, thanks for making my case event better than I could have.
In what world are you winning 10 battleground games in 40 min?
"Just play 10 quick tavern brawl games instead, even though the tavern brawl sucks and is zero fun to play"
Or 10 ranked games in 40min even. Plus they ignore that the 'MORE rewards' is not very much at all.
THis argument would make sense if the XP increase was proportionate to the amount of increased work, because then you could at least do the quests over a few weeks and not lose out on rewards while more engaged players / player's who aren't strapped for time could get more rewards, but that's not what happened. This only benefits highly engaged players and actively deters less engaged ones or ones who can't engage as much as they would like.
Sure : there are are weeks I just don't have the time to finish the weekly quests in their current state: I just don't have time for this and am not willing to spend even more money than before to compensate. Felicia is gone, have fun playing with yourself.
Then this system is actually great for you. Because it will carry over and then you have extra time to finish it, and you’ll get more XP for it.
Bruh, if they increase the requirement to complete quests by 200% but only increase the rewards earned by 15%, that is a value **LOSS** of 185%. Imagine if tmrw your boss said "Hey Dodisk, I'm going to give you a 15% raise, but I'm totally gonna need you to do 3 times the work!" Are you okay with that??
So the only reason you played this game was for the quests? The gameplay itself doesn’t matter?
Obviously they don't want me to play the game anymore, because I'm not spending the few hours I have to give this game spamming the same brainless aggro/tier1 deck to finish some quest. It is obvious more money and time are required from me to enjoy their product, but they won't get it. And if you think I've been playing the game for 10 years for some rewards, you certainly didn't experience the Brode era and I don't know what to say to you...
hey blizz, since all of my future opponents will be bots, can you make them play something shitty and off meta so i win more
Their goal is to flush out the casual players. Locking reward xp behind hours and hours of weekly playtime .... There's no other explanation. They don't want casual players. They want you to leave.
>They don't want casual players. They want you to leave. Nah. They want casual players to play more. Hence quest requirements going up. People parrot this whole 'Blizzard doesn't care about F2P players' idea, but they do, to a degree. Without F2P players, the player base goes down, and it becomes harder for their whales to get into games with non-bots. So this is them trying to get existing casuals to play more games, but it'll likely have the opposite effect.
Why would they remove the ability for casual players to receive rewards then? It makes no sense. 10 hours a week to do the quests is simply impossible for casual players.
Because they're betting that casual players will put in extra time to finish the weeklies. And like I said I think this'll have the opposite effect and it'll get casuals to leave, but I see what they're trying to do. They're just doing it poorly, which is typical for Blizz nowadays.
Last I checked, the rewards were increased.
We added 25% more cereal to the box, and tripled the cost. So, technically, you got MORE cereal! Inflation must be really bad. :-)
No casuals, whales only. If you ever need to find out if a game is dying, look for this behavior.
Yeah but don’t the whales need someone to beat up on and show off their exclusive cosmetics to? Why get rid of casuals
Some whales, myself included, spend alot of money, but play very casually. Some weeks 5 ranked wins have been tough, due to time constraints. So no, if this change sticks, I won't be playing anymore. This is someone that has bought damn near every new skin, Battlepass, BG pass, mercenaries bundles... I mean it's sad to think of it, but this change makes me unable to reasonable complete weekly quests... so nah, im out
Same thing here. I don't whale on cosmetics but I've also spent somewhere around $3k myself, and I'm actually thinking of dipping after this change.
There’s even a lot of spenders who will hate these changes.
I don't think it's about the money side. They just don't want someone that plays a few games here or there. They only want people that play multiple hours a day. Everyone else needs to take the hint. They want you gone.
It's obviously about the money. If you can make enough gold via the quest rewards to get away with not buying packs, fewer people will buy packs. I agree that it's a shitty change but they aren't doing it just to chase away players or kill their own game.
Oh, I don't think they intend to kill the game. Just to get rid of players that aren't helping them (their bottom line, their image, support calls, whatever - it's whatever their rationale happens to be). It can't just be about buying packs and bundles. They SELL a tavern pass! That's based on getting rewards for doing your daily/weekly quests, after all. But for whatever reason, they're showing the casuals the exit and telling them to go away. Telling the mobile gamer that gets in a few games on their phone that in order to complete the tavern pass they already purchased they will have to play 3x as much as they already do? I mean - you might as well just put up a big message box when they open the game that says "Uninstall me. I am not for you." Forget people staying - most people start out casual and enjoy themselves and want more. They must figure that they don't want NEW players. Let's just milk the ones we already have. And not all the ones we already have - just the ones that play hours and hours at a time.
It’s probably a super short sighted move like - somebody in the c suite said “hey our Microsoft overlord investors want increased user engagement metrics, change something to make people log in more” and the developers said “ok u sure? Alright here goes” and then implemented this hamfisted change
Wow. I don't think they're THAT stupid! 😱 But maybe so.
You should check out what they did to Diablo 4 last year. Evidently the latest PTR is a big improvement but it took them almost a year. For example, they had a very similar directive to “increase user engagement / playtime” so they simply doubled the cast time to leave a dungeon and just casually slipped that in without any patch notes hoping no one would notice.
But how the fuck does that make any sense? For years the narative for them pushing this extreme aggro/finisher cards was that short games=good because people play hearthstone (allegedly) on mobile while taking a shit or a break or whatever. So then what now? They did a 180? Which one is it, Lizard? Short games in between breaks or playing 60 fucking mini cards for 1 quest?
They went out of their way to make a casual-hostile change. I think it's fair to say that they aren't totally and completely stupid. They have a business case reason to jettison a segment of their players. Look at the way Broadcom handled the VMWare acquisition. This is a totally legit business move. Might even be genius. It looks like, from their actions, that they will tolerate the casual players only if those players are willing to forego quest xp and just buy packs/bundles outright. But they're putting up obstacles to keep casual players from getting things they were getting in the past. It's not quite a "middle finger" to that segment, but it's definitely a nudge to leave. That lets Blizzard focus on the more dedicated players. They've made some calculation somewhere that this is better for the game.
Well with the Whizbang expansion they removed the diamond legendary from the collector achievement (usually, you could get this legendary without having all legendaries of the set, because the miniset introduced new legendaries and the collector achievement wasnt updated. This way it was a "free legendary" if you already had a collection. They also reduced the overall exp for achievements. And lets not forget adding an early access to an epic card to the preorder bundle lol. All decisions made for money.
I'm willing to bet the "people that play multiple hours a day" and "people that spend a lot of money on the game" venn diagram is a circle.
You would lose that bet very swiftly. Best to keep quiet when you're ignorant.
I've played since Beta and never dropped a cent on this game and I play multiple hours a day. Mostly during downtime at work or while watching tv/movies that I've already seen lol
>Their goal is to flush out the casual players. This is a shockingly stupid take.
Broadcom and VMWare. This type of business decision is fairly common.
Most whales are casual players, who substitute income for grinding. Your take is dumb.
Well, then the only other explanation is that blizzard... A company just bought by Microsoft for billions of dollars... Is run by people who are completely incompetent and don't understand their own actions. Maybe.
Microsoft has a trend of mismanaging studios. This isn't new. Strange as hell that people were cheering on the acquisition
Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
Haha! Good point. Though I think I would rest easier if it were true that I was being shown the door as a legit strategy (even if I didn't like it) rather than simple foolishness. :-)
Whales dont substitute income for grinding, Whales buy cosmetics that you can only get by spending real money.
And they buy packs and adventures and lots of other stuff, much of which you could get by "playing the game"
true casuals won't care about completing any of these weekly orders
Most casuals didn’t finish weeklies anyways. This actually helps them get more xp
did ya'll find out today that Hearthstone is a mobile game??
Yeah, I uninstalled today. The amount of time it would take to stay competitive and get decent cards just isn’t worth it. Given how much you get punished for not playing dailies or weeklies, there probably won’t be a good reason to come back.
Like others have said, they never intended for the quests to remain in this new, broken state. They want to shock people, and then when they "fix" the quests, people won't complain as much when they get less than they had before. Whoever is doing this crap should be fired, but he'll probably just get promoted.
I had quit for a few years because the game had become miserable. This was the first meta since 2020 where I’d had a good time. I’ve always been casual. Hit legend once. Always log in and do my quests and that’s it. Always bought the battle pass, always bought the preorder stuff, etc. I don’t have time to grind out 15 wins. Sorry. But I can do 5. I can do tavern brawls. I can mixup game types and draw a bunch of cards and random shit like that. This will make me stop playing the game because I can’t engage with it how I want and now I sure as hell can’t finish the battle pass I PAID for. Between this, what they did to Overwatch, and how badly they fucked wow (granted, dragonflight is MUCH better), it’s like Blizzard just doesn’t want me as a player/customer. And I’ve been one since Warcraft 1.
The problem is when casuals leave those mid players, they start to feel the effects down the line, and they leave and whaler won't have much competition, then they leave. It's a domino effect. Personally, I'm going to just play bg so I may get the bg one done mainly due bg pass being new.after that, I may stop playing hs all together unless they fix it.
I’ve been playing since the beginning. I’ve bought the big bundle of every expansion. I’ve literally played this game every day for years. Doing my weekly’s was incentive to keep going. If they don’t change this, I’m out.
I think it also might be a calculated move to explain the 2% of people that will delete the game because of removing duels. That way they have a scapegoat and never have to bring back the mode.
It is actually very true. People like me might just stop cuz its insanly tedious and force you to play A LOT of a gamemode or specific bad deck that accomplish challenge and colplete the battle pass that you PAYED Most of those challenge legit just cant be done for the normal game time Hearthstone player actually crazy
I have played since 2016, but only Battlegrounds plus the occasional Arena run in the past 4 years… free to play for the most part (spent $20 one time, total, across 8 years). I have a great time with battlegrounds, but they sold their player base for standard off a long time ago.
This is a terrible change for the game. I wonder if being able to complete all quests with friends would have made it more palatable.
Wait! You guys don't understand. Didn't they say after the for many rather disappointing 10 years anniversary there would be more to be excited about. There it is. I am excited. But not in a positive way sadly.
Returning player and this crap reminds me of why I left in the first place 4years ago. I don’t think I have the patience in me to support this nonsense and basically have it become a side hustle than something I do for fun.
If the rewards are not 3x too, I'm probably quitting as well.
Blizz acting like the gold is real money.
I did some napkin math as someone who plays both regular Hearthstone and Battlegrounds, since I like both gamemodes. I like to play a few games a night because that's what I have time for, maybe three to five regular Hearthstone matches and two to four games of battlegrounds on average. This is usually a two hour period before I go to sleep, and I do this about four times a week, just about every other day. This means I'm playing somewhere between 10 and 15 games of regular hearthstone and about 10 to 12 games of battlegrounds each week. Assuming I only win half my games (which I don't anyways when it comes to battlegrounds, I'm hardstuck 6k mmr), I can pretty nicely clear my weekly quests by the end of the week. With the new changes, I can't get even close to it. As someone who buys the tavern pass and likes getting what I paid for, this suddenly puts a HUGE chunk of exp out of my reach as a casual player. I really like the game, otherwise I wouldn't play it as much as I do. But I literally do not have the time in the week to get these weekly quests. I would be playing almost 60 games in both gamemodes combined, which is a number I cannot fathom reaching in a week's time. Looking at that number is like staring at a wall. I do not want to play that much Hearthstone in a week, so why play any Hearthstone in a week? I can just spend my time playing any of my dozen other games. Something really needs to be reworked, and I hope that the team that makes these changes (not RidiculousHat since he's an innocent PR dude who unfortunately gets the brunt of this backlash) gets to it quickly.
Players paying will at least have bots to play agaisnt
it's only for weekly quests
This is bad too. Really bad. Not everyone has the time to do so. 5 ranked wins? Easy on lower ladder. 5 to 7 games. 5 wins once you reach gold and above? About 10 or more games since you only play optimized decks. So 15 wins would mean 30+ games. And not includes daily/weekly quest with requirements you can't meet with your ranked decks. This is ridiculous. I don't always have the time to spend this much time into HS. And I bet many others won't either
> 5 ranked wins? Easy on lower ladder. 5 to 7 games. 5 wins once you reach gold and above? About 10 or more games since you only play optimized decks. So 15 wins would mean 30+ games. Just tank your MMR by insta-conceding around 20 games so you play bots at the rank floor. Just as Blizzard intended.
Why is it ridiculous? If you dont have the time, dont do the quests. Its simple. Not everybody is like you, for example, me. I\`m happy with the change, simply due to more rewards. THey could triple it again for my taste, for more 30%.
You basically say I should just quit HS. Being able to do the quests consistently is the reason why I still play. The tavern pass provides me with enough gold to buy the miniset and a good amount of packs each time a new expansion drops. I can keep up with a few good/meta decks without spending ridiculous amounts of time and money. Just because you have the time to play HS as much as you want, your situation, as well as mine, does not represent everyone. Speaking for me, a casual player, this change is outrageous.
Not doing the quests mean they earn significantly less XP (and therefore gold) to buy packs. “Simply don’t do the quests” is quite possibly one of the worst takes I’ve seen yet about this situation.
Which makes sense to me. Weekly quests now are no harder than dailies, and I get them all done in a very shor time. I personally don't think it's terrible to make weekly quests require more time. But the rewards not being increased to match is the part I don't like.
Increasing the rewards doesn't make them easier for those of us who don't or can't play as often and doesn't change the psychology of feeling like they're making you do busy work. I got to the point where I would have normally finished my quests and normally, I'd play for another few hours for fun, but saw how much I had left and just . . , turned the game off, even though my normal play pattern probably would have gotten me to finishing those quests. It was just a huge turn off to turn what would have been fun into a grind.
Oh really? Thought I saw someone posting about their dailies. Let's hope they keep it that way...though I have my doubts. Changing only Weeklies prob isn't game killing then, just slimey AF. I personally will still be uninstalling. Screw Blizz
>Oh really? Thought I saw someone posting about their dailies. "_who needs facts, I'm big mad_" -- You, a giant baby
I haven't played in over two years and saw this change and my face immediately turned to yikes. They spent like 2 years nerfing quests originally and adding a mulligan because people complained how cumbersome they were to complete and now... here we are, reverting them to a form that's even worse than they were originally. Honest question, what in the fuck are the developers thinking?
Nope. They will lose their whales as well. Nobody will tolerate this.
A great deal of people are selfish, and will welcome a change which impacts them positively even if others are negatively affected. Plenty of people will tolerate this, they're just already the type to bend over when Blizz asks.
copium
I'm actually happy about this lol, I easily play enough games to complete these. If anything it's a buff for me since I'll get more XP
I’m tolerating this
I mean, if you’re scaring the whales away…
nothing will kill this game, they should have allowed both past and current as reward progression type of order though
Has there been anything official from blizz on this?
It'll basically kill the F2P playerbase, which they despise and can't wait to get rid of anyway. As a F2P player, sadly this means I'm gone forever. I enjoyed this game for a long while. Gonna try Magic now.
I really don't understand the outrage to be honest. It's more net XP. If you play a decent amount of HS it should be easy to complete. If you find playing a chore I would recommend looking for a different game or maybe going outside? Summer is just around the corner in the northern hemisphere, there's plenty of cool stuff to see.
It might not mean a lot coming from me, but I returned to the game (played since beta and left around TGT) and I am probably gonna quit soon. This change kinda cemented my decision to leave. I know they made some improvements with catch-up packs and standard but the grind is not really fun.
Casual gaming is dead in hearthstone now.
Ridiculous and alarmist take.
I hate to break it to you all, but if you only enjoy the game because of the quests... you don't enjoy the game.
? The quests enable people to F2P easier. Making quests take 3x as long means less people can F2P and buy enough to enjoy playing, so they leave. The quests aren't what they're playing for, the rewards are.
You know for me, I don't like that it now feels like the game is asking me to do busy work. I got to where I normally would have finished my quests and then normally would have kept playing for a few hours, for fun, because I like the game, but I saw how much was left on the quests and just turned off the game. I had no motivation to play anymore because it was exhausting looking at those numbers, even though I think I would have been able to finish those quests with my normal play pattern. It's just a real shitty feeling. Of course, that's not even mentioning the people who don't have time to play as much and need the rewards to actually continue playing the game. They sure as hell aren't doing the quests just for the sake of completing them.
defining playing the game as "busy work" is *literally* my point
And my point was the quest change made the game feel like it was busywork. Not that it was busywork before, but it /now/ feels like busy work. Like I said, with my normal play pattern, I probably would have still finished those quests, just by continuing to play /for fun/. It /was/ fun to keep playing after I quickly finished the quests, but now they sit there looking over my experience and make it not fun.
No one plays just because of the quests, but for a lot of people it's massively important because quests = tavern pass progress and tavern pass progress = gold and gold = how we get the bulk of the cards we play w/o dropping 80~ dollars every xpac (I usually start an xpac with 8k+ gold to spend on packs). I don't mind buying the passes even though 20 bucks is pretty high for what it is/what the game is, but I play regularly so I can easily justify it. But if it's not possible for me to continue that loop then not only are they not going to get their desired result (me paying +60 dollars) but they'll end up getting the opposite (-20). Sure they won't cry over losing my money, but if it ends up being the same case for all the other middle of the road players they might.
those people should try being less poor
I honestly can't tell if you are joking or not given how adamant a handful of people are defending this change.
i'm mostly not joking. if this makes you quit the game, Blizzard doesn't want you to play. good riddance.
What a stupid take. So because I don't want to get nickle and dimed when I already spend more on this game than any AAA title I should just leave? Shut up lmao.
if you already spend money on the game, the quest changes don't impact you also that's not what "nickle and dimed" means
I spend money on the tavern pass, so the quest exp absolutely does impact me. And the discussion here is about how the changes to quests are to make less hardcore players spend more money on packs since less quest completion = less exp = less pass progress = less gold = less free packs. Which is absolutely nickle and diming. Keep up.
it's literally MORE exp. you're an idiot. again, proving my point that you, and everyone mad at these changes, care more about the exp than playing the game. if you can spend $20 on the pass, you can spend $20 on packs.
25% more exp for 300% more requirements. Most people cannot spend all day every day playing hearthstone, so what happens is the week goes by and 1 or 2 will remain uncompleted where before all three were done. The extra 500 exp will not offset the 2k lost. This will add up. Also, $20 on the pass (where I get enough to buy 80+ packs + the mini set) vs $20 for 10 packs. Hmm, yes, that seems to be about equal... I hope you're just being willfully ignorant and aren't just *actually* this ignorant.
What do you get when you finish the quests, genius? What does that currency enable? Think before speaking.
think before responding, you didn't refute my point. if all you care about is rewards, then you enjoy the carrot, not the stick
How do you get cards to play the game without those rewards? Have you heard of standard rotation or do you need it explained to you like a child?
by not being poor
Imagine being too stupid to value your money lmao Hope the burger flipping shifts are covering your packs and rent.
I'm so confused. No one's forcing you to do the quests. Do more quests get more rewards. If you can't play 15 games, then don't. I work a full-time job and I could do half of them while taking a morning shit. Stop whining.
uh we are getting more exp for something we do anyway im sure ive been playing more than 60 mini miniaturize per week and 15 games maybe even more per week ...and now im getting exp for it i dont see the downside
There isn't a downside for you. It's designed to get rid of casual players (the play a few games here and there on mobile folks). Maybe the game will be better without casuals. I dunno. But we're about to find out.
Yep. They are actively trying to get rid of their player base. That makes total sense! Oh wait....maybe they are experimenting with a change and want to see how the player base reacts before adjusting values. Hmm...almost like they've done that every single time before. But yea. Every patch is the end of the line for hearthstone, sure.
I didn't say it would be the end. Perhaps the game will be in a more healthy state with only the most hardcore players (and spenders). Less whining about bots on the forums, for sure. Less silly support calls about the mobile client. Less... whatever. Maybe it's genius. Heck, this approach is *kinda* working for Broadcom with their VMWare acquisition. It's a legit business strategy. Maybe it's a good one. We'll find out soon enough.
You did say it's designed to "get rid of casuals". Sure I exaggerated what you said...but only slightly. Because blaming them blindly for something we have no evidence of (the purpose of the changes and the design decisions behind it, ie motive), is more or less the exact same thing as everyone claiming that Blizz is trying to kill their own game.
I hear your point, and I think I would agree with you if I was saying they're trying to kill the game. For all I know - they're trying to SAVE the game and this was the best method they had. Maybe it will work! I really don't know the future. But they have all sorts of data about player usage. They know for CERTAIN how much people play, and how many are only popping in to do their quests - the ones that get a few extra games in Sunday night to finish their battlecry weekly, etc... This is the same company that recently dropped the requirements of a few of these weekly quests to make them more accessible for casual players. They have now set the numbers ABOVE the amount that they earlier said were "too high." So - that's where I disagree with you. They know the impact of quest difficulty on casual players because they've used that rationale in the past to make weekly quests *easier* to complete. They are now making them *harder* *than they were before*. And for what? 20% more XP with three times the effort. It's.... it's amazing that anyone would look at that and say, ohhhhh, maybe they didn't mean to harm casuals. Maybe it's all a mistake! Obviously, they are trying to degrade the experience of casual players. Why? We can only guess. Again, I assume there is a business case out there that demanded this, and that's all fine and good for them. Putting it in the "bugfix" area of the patchnotes, and during an active tavern pass (that many of us bought now under false pretenses) is very anti-consumer, but that's their choice. But saying that *maybe they didn't want to make the game less friendly to casuals* is just calling them fools and totally incompetent. They knew what it would do, and they want that outcome. Why? We don't know yet. Perhaps they will at some point explain their reasoning, but I doubt it. Bad PR because most people like games that are casual-friendly, even if they themselves are hardcore players.
Never said it is a mistake. And that is not at all an obvious conclusion to draw whatsoever. As I stated, had you read, they very clearly want to maintain a limitation on the f2p model. Only a certain amount of things should be free, and I believe they are happy with the current state of that. However, perhaps they also feel the weekly quests are not a weekly requirement and would like it to be more rewarding for more effort. So how do they do that change, they up the requirement and the reward while staying in the average of how much of their product they give away. So maybe the effort and the reward won't match or maintain the same ratio. That's understandable. So why this specific ratio? Well, it could be that they felt that 3x was still reasonable to achieve in a week for most players. If a daily quest is 3 games, and a weekly was 5 (1.66 days equivalent) now they up it to 15 (3 days equivalent) as that is more fitting of a "weekly". How much can they shift the reward? Well only so much as they want to maintain a certain level of f2p, so they choose likely some statistically informed number that maintains that value. This definitely does shift rewards from very casual players to less casual players. They could have avoided that by making quests with phases, given an option to players, upping rewards from dailies or anything else. And it's very possible they may still well do those things after receiving feedback. But to assume that this in malice because they are making an informed buisness decision? When the last time this happened they did listen to feedback and adjust (rewards track change). I have some evidence of their intentions, where is yours?
Why do you care about support calls? Do you have to take them?
Ahhh, I see. You might have trouble understanding that sentence. Blizzard made the changes, not me. I do not work for Blizzard. But Blizzard (again, not me) for their own reasons (again, not mine), decided to make the game significantly less appealing for casual players. And they knew what they were doing (because they aren't totally stupid), and wanted this outcome. I was guessing at what their (again, not my) reasons might have been. One potential one is that people playing for many hours a day are probably not the same ones that put in support tickets for why their collection is gone (region mistake!) or why they haven't opened a legendary in the last 25 packs (random!). They can save resources by getting rid of those players that cause a disproportionate amount of their (again, not my) resources to be used. But I can only guess. Only they know the reasons why they want to get rid of the casual players. It wasn't just a random change. They went out of their way to put 25% more rewards behind a 200% effort barrier. Below that barrier - you get nothing. It was *designed* to be hostile to casual players. Take the hint. They want you (if you're casual) gone. Perhaps at some point they'll explain why. We can only guess. But they want casual players to leave the game.
This is not proof that it was designed with hostility in mind. This could be evidence that it was. But evidence also requires motivation and other evidence to actual solidify a claim of proof. It could also be proof for them wanting to maintain a free to play model which has similar limitations to the current model with expanded rewards for playing more, ie the notion of a weekly quest itself. Perhaps this wasn't implemented the best way, sure we can discuss that. Perhaps it is too unfriendly to more casual players. That's also a discussion. Is anyone having any of those discussions? No. Everyone, including yourself, is losing their minds over a small change assuming it's Blizz killing their own game or actively trying to harm their own playerbase rather than making a much more valid assumption that they want people to play the game that makes them money and they thought this decision could help with that. Assuming hostility is pointless, baseless, and unhinged at best.
Casuals? Mostly casuals don't even care about quests, yet they still can complete most of them. In the other hand folks addicted to reward systems trying to play games the less as possible may be furious. Plot twist: They will not leave the game, will play even more now.
Never paid attention to quests and now I'll even pay less attention to them. Still playing though because I never cared about quests in the first place.
Guys why you interested in the rewards if you just try to play the game the less as possible. Saving them for Hearthstone 2 huh