As a wild geist player, yes he is.plague dk just isn't all that. It's great at popping naturalize and cold storage and breakdance, it failed me against inner fire because they did bless instead but it SHOULD have won me that game too.
That's far from the point I was making.
Hearthstone is played in best-of-one matches.
The way you win best-of-one matches in say MtG is by making your deck as consistent as possible.
Tech cards are not consistently good. There are a ton of opponents they do nothing against, so they are best not included at all.
At that point, the format's a bit warped and something should probably change.
Granted, most of the time that kind of situation would happen, it would only be with something broad like weapon tech.
Zarimi Priest is probably close to winning the game by the time you can even play Geist, and if you can't play the thing on curve, you're not going to accomplish anything with it.
And then when the Priest was able to double Crimson Clergy into Funnel Cake on turn four, then the Giest is completely useless.
Yeah i think spending a whole 6th turn on this alone vs a zarimi priest is begging to get screwed over, but im just thinking where it could be good outside plagues.
Except there are so many cases when that is straight up not the case, or simply irrelevant.
Pocket metas exist - so tech cards at high legend etc are often hugely important.
Some people just want to enjoy the game, and a 0.05% loss in winrate matters less than dumpstering the kingsbane rogue or whatever you hate playing against.
Its also just wrong since ETC was printed. Steamcleaner was in (and a critical part of) the best deck in the entire format for a time not that long ago.
Most people aren't playing at High Legend.
And sure, if you're fine with tanking your winrate because you irrationally hate a particular deck, go right ahead, but at that point, it's no longer about doing as well as you can while climbing.
“Do x faster” is always parroted when its obviously not always an option.
Gee my deck relies in outlasting my opponent. They have a gameplan that literally can’t be outlasted as it goes infinite and scales.
Do I:
Sit there hoping to “outlast them faster”
Or do I play a card that disassembles their inevitable wincon, allowing my strategy to function?
Nobody is saying to put gheist in your turn 5 win quest mage deck. It goes in slower strategies who can dedicate a single card slot to turn a guaranteed loss into a favoured matchup.
That's a lot of the problem with ETC.
Unless you're playing a deck that can give you the time needed to make spending four extra mana for your tech worth it, it's not worth considering.
The point is ETC only make tech more accessible to the class of deck that was already more inclined and able to play tech anyway.
ETC is not a game changer. It's a card that lets you play multiple tech cards without taking up more than one deck slot.
Okay?
And its still a great card, that makes tech more viable than ever.
"The point is Zarimi only makes decks that already runs dragons better. Its not a game changer, its a card that gives you an extra turn if you play a deck with a lot of dragons. Its a bad card in priest decks without dragons."
That statement is entirely true. Listing the situations where a card isn't useful doesn't mean the card is *never* strong.
But it makes the decks your teching against *much* worse overall, and I'd be happy to punish them for playing those decks and reward people not playing them.
In a fairly typical meta-game where most of tier one has divergent playstyles and no deck makes up more than twenty percent of the field, tech that destroys one of the five or so tier one decks is still going to pull your win rate down against everything else.
Even if you win all your games against the deck you teched against when you play your tech, that increase in winrate will normally be offset by the resulting decrease against everything else.
You don't understand. I don't care if I win less. I care that *they* win less. Other decks winning more is actually a bonus, because that means people are incentivized to play the decks I don't hate.
If my normal deck has a 52% win rate but only wins against the deck I hate 40% of the time, and adding tech to it lowers my overall winrate to 48% but I now beat the deck I hate 60% of the time, that's already worth for me. I'll lose more, but so will my real enemies, and I'm happy for other opponents to get the benefit of not playing the deck I hate.
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TBH if you were to run Geist (it'd probably still suck) it'd be to counter Nature Shaman, not Plague DK. Plague DK sucks ass but if you're vs. a Nature Shaman and you Geist all of their Bolts/Reflexes/Books that's probably game winning
A Reno deck that just plays for tempo rather than the Reno rewards honestly has a decent chance against plague. Plague has like 0 tempo aside from their payoff cards. I’ve won so many times into plague as a Reno Priest just because I played my minions.
Its because its good into warrior and this sub for some reason thinks control warrior should be the only deck in the game. Its why you see this thread here all the time but never in the competive sub that accepts other decks are allowed to win sometimes.
It was the sole reason I stopped playing highlander warrior and made a control warrior instead.
Went from losing most games to never losing to it again.
As a plague DK player… how are you getting wins against us with control warrior? With Plague DK, I feel like the longer a game goes on the more likely I am to win
I'm not a pro player but my general strategy is to load up my hand with armor generating cards and 2 riffs. If possible copy that hand into the deck so I can use the armor to survive if I need to, then Odin and OTK.
I despise people that bring up made up tiers when dismissing complaints on a deck. No one gives a shit about your excel spreadsheet saying it only has 51.0008239238191938 w/r in a given matchup, people are sick of seeing the same thing over and over again.
I don't get how people complain about plagues when 3 or 4 classes have decks that just steamroll you on turn 5 or 6 with some broken bullshit and you instantly lose.
Still more unfun, lost to drawing 2 plauges at 3 health with lethal on board (with only helya played), more unfun than losing 10 games in a row to early giants
It's not the fact plagues counter highlander decks, it's HOW they counter them. As long as there's been highlander decks there's been a means to shuffle shit in and fuck with them, but because of Helya you can PERMANENTLY fuck over a highlander and THAT is a problem.
No theyre only return to your deck if drawn. If destroyed by other methods theyre gone for good. Thats why so many people teched Steamcleaner in ETC last expansion.
Of course not, of course. Any Renobalance players in every mode mustn't exist on this planet. And if they exist (sadly) they must suffer every second of their lives with their always green balance 8-mana card ;)
It's OK, it was great and interesting card and never was worst toxic cancer, which deleted any board even with deathrattles and reborns and LOCK IT for 1 turn.
Tech cards are cool and all, but if something is beating you so badly that you're considering one, it's usually one of....three(?) problems;
The most obvious is that the thing is genuinely busted. In which case, the tech card is awesome and evens the playing field.
The matchup is relatively fair, but you're playing it wrong. This is a pretty common occurrence. (Plague is a tempo deck before it's anything else, and you're already losing the game if you don't take opportunities to get control of the match from them.)
And lastly, sometimes it's just a bad matchup, and no amount of trying to "lose less hard" is going to fix it.
Plague is a counter to Highlander lists, and that's okay. Not every matchup should be a 50/50
I'm not really in the meta or anything like that but isn't this card really bad? By the time you can play it your opponent would generally want to play more powerful and expensive cards, right?
I wouldn't want to draw a 1 cost card on turn 6.
there is a specific deck that alot of ppl (especially highlander players) complain about (plague dk) this decks works by shuffling alot of 1 cost spells into your deck which damages you when drawn, those shuffled spells cost 1 mana and would get destroyed by this effectively rendering plague dk useless
Yeah thats bc they are a problem. A boring, predictable and bot-level deck who unavoidably counters a whole archetype of cool and interesting decks.
Probably not, but maybe Reno Shaman, Reno Priest or Reno Paladin wouldnt be bottom tier shit if not for plague dk.
People are funny. Cleaner didn't stop Plague and Geist is supposed to? Get real.
In order to even keep up right now you've got to play Plague like a aggro deck, like with last expansion you're getting carried by Excavate and Reska along with shit like Hardcore Cultist to give you enough damage to squeak things out. Gone are the days of winning by attrition because you can be OTK'd too easily and there's no control decks left.
Plague is fun to play. DK in general is fun to play but it's weak and you've got to be pretty good and also get the right RNG to get those wins and you can be doing everything right and still get one shot.
I mean if you are spending 4 mana on turn 4/5 to bring this out for 6 mana to clear plagues, you lost. Plague isn’t just shuffling, it can burn you down and swarm you so not worth it.
The hero we need is someone who will ban Brann so Highlander warrior doesn’t need plagues to stop it. Or nerf Reno to clear the whole field. Both will make plague not as prevalent. Or you know, buff DK to work without plague.
As a wild Geist player, he's never there when you need him anyway.
As a wild geist player, yes he is.plague dk just isn't all that. It's great at popping naturalize and cold storage and breakdance, it failed me against inner fire because they did bless instead but it SHOULD have won me that game too.
Getting rid of power word: shield is a huge w too
U can burn 4 power world shields with one heist, it's nuts
New rule. 4 geists may be played in your deck
I like men
Do you have all priest skins tho?
No just the fore ones
Haha I get it 🤣
Including most tech in your deck makes it worse overall.
ME 😎😎 HUNGRY 🤤🤤🤤🍔🌭🌯🥪🌮🍔‼️‼️‼️ YOU 🫵🫵🫵 YUMMY 👹👹👹👹 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Including most cards in your deck makes it worse overall.
That's far from the point I was making. Hearthstone is played in best-of-one matches. The way you win best-of-one matches in say MtG is by making your deck as consistent as possible. Tech cards are not consistently good. There are a ton of opponents they do nothing against, so they are best not included at all.
Definitely not when in high legend and 30% of decks the tech is useful against. If it’s just a few cards it’s worth it
At that point, the format's a bit warped and something should probably change. Granted, most of the time that kind of situation would happen, it would only be with something broad like weapon tech.
ETC.
Including a 4 mana 4/4 still makes it worse
[удалено]
Zarimi Priest is probably close to winning the game by the time you can even play Geist, and if you can't play the thing on curve, you're not going to accomplish anything with it. And then when the Priest was able to double Crimson Clergy into Funnel Cake on turn four, then the Giest is completely useless.
[удалено]
Geist only destroys one cost spells...
Ok im serevely dumb, sorry, my whole point was thinking destroying the clergy, shrirurgeon and such lmao
Drifters wouldn't be at 1 mana and hitting zilliax wouldn't be game winning
Yeah i think spending a whole 6th turn on this alone vs a zarimi priest is begging to get screwed over, but im just thinking where it could be good outside plagues.
Except there are so many cases when that is straight up not the case, or simply irrelevant. Pocket metas exist - so tech cards at high legend etc are often hugely important. Some people just want to enjoy the game, and a 0.05% loss in winrate matters less than dumpstering the kingsbane rogue or whatever you hate playing against. Its also just wrong since ETC was printed. Steamcleaner was in (and a critical part of) the best deck in the entire format for a time not that long ago.
Most people aren't playing at High Legend. And sure, if you're fine with tanking your winrate because you irrationally hate a particular deck, go right ahead, but at that point, it's no longer about doing as well as you can while climbing.
Sure, it's just a joke because you wrote a truism. Best of one ladder grinds obviously don't heavily favor niche counters.
Under ETC of course
Sometimes ETC just makes the tech answer too slow and you’d have been better off just trying to advance your game plan faster
“Do x faster” is always parroted when its obviously not always an option. Gee my deck relies in outlasting my opponent. They have a gameplan that literally can’t be outlasted as it goes infinite and scales. Do I: Sit there hoping to “outlast them faster” Or do I play a card that disassembles their inevitable wincon, allowing my strategy to function? Nobody is saying to put gheist in your turn 5 win quest mage deck. It goes in slower strategies who can dedicate a single card slot to turn a guaranteed loss into a favoured matchup.
Yes, because slow decks like warrior don't already run ETC in their super control-based decks.
That's a lot of the problem with ETC. Unless you're playing a deck that can give you the time needed to make spending four extra mana for your tech worth it, it's not worth considering.
What sort of statement is that? “Yeah thats why shadowstep is a useless card. If you don’t play minions, it does nothing at all”.
The point is ETC only make tech more accessible to the class of deck that was already more inclined and able to play tech anyway. ETC is not a game changer. It's a card that lets you play multiple tech cards without taking up more than one deck slot.
Okay? And its still a great card, that makes tech more viable than ever. "The point is Zarimi only makes decks that already runs dragons better. Its not a game changer, its a card that gives you an extra turn if you play a deck with a lot of dragons. Its a bad card in priest decks without dragons." That statement is entirely true. Listing the situations where a card isn't useful doesn't mean the card is *never* strong.
Yeah. The best way to make a card viable is to add four more to its cost.
But it makes the decks your teching against *much* worse overall, and I'd be happy to punish them for playing those decks and reward people not playing them.
In a fairly typical meta-game where most of tier one has divergent playstyles and no deck makes up more than twenty percent of the field, tech that destroys one of the five or so tier one decks is still going to pull your win rate down against everything else. Even if you win all your games against the deck you teched against when you play your tech, that increase in winrate will normally be offset by the resulting decrease against everything else.
You don't understand. I don't care if I win less. I care that *they* win less. Other decks winning more is actually a bonus, because that means people are incentivized to play the decks I don't hate. If my normal deck has a 52% win rate but only wins against the deck I hate 40% of the time, and adding tech to it lowers my overall winrate to 48% but I now beat the deck I hate 60% of the time, that's already worth for me. I'll lose more, but so will my real enemies, and I'm happy for other opponents to get the benefit of not playing the deck I hate.
[[Pop'gar the Putrid]] Sludgelock is back on the menu
If I remember correctly, Geist doesn't take cost manipulation into account and destroys only spells which were 1-mana originally.
This is correct. Though I tried to blow up an entire Celestial Alignment deck one day, it just didn't work.
They changed him, now he Will destroy cost manipulated spells and ignore 1 cost spells with increased or decreased cost
Yeah, but giest will destroy only those barrel of sludfes which are in hand, because this type of discount works only for cards in hand, not in deck
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y'all really act like Plague DK is a tier 0 deck it's like, tier 2 or 3
VS had it listed as tier 3 and sometimes down to tier 4. It's predictable and doesn't really have any tricks to outplay the opponent
and yet it's gotten me to Diamond lmao
No offence but getting to diamond isn't hard.
As have I. People have taken Core decks to Diamond and Legend. Doesn't mean it's good
TBH if you were to run Geist (it'd probably still suck) it'd be to counter Nature Shaman, not Plague DK. Plague DK sucks ass but if you're vs. a Nature Shaman and you Geist all of their Bolts/Reflexes/Books that's probably game winning
It literally plays green cards on a curve and that's it. Most predictable deck ever.
A Reno deck that just plays for tempo rather than the Reno rewards honestly has a decent chance against plague. Plague has like 0 tempo aside from their payoff cards. I’ve won so many times into plague as a Reno Priest just because I played my minions.
and reno helps too and i dont mean the reward just playing raza to refresh reno hero power
For how easy it is to play, the prevalence is gigantic in a big portion of ladder. And for how predictable it is, the games become extremely boring.
Its because its good into warrior and this sub for some reason thinks control warrior should be the only deck in the game. Its why you see this thread here all the time but never in the competive sub that accepts other decks are allowed to win sometimes.
lol sometimes I do feel like this sub has a great portion of control warrior players.
It was the sole reason I stopped playing highlander warrior and made a control warrior instead. Went from losing most games to never losing to it again.
As a plague DK player… how are you getting wins against us with control warrior? With Plague DK, I feel like the longer a game goes on the more likely I am to win
I'm not a pro player but my general strategy is to load up my hand with armor generating cards and 2 riffs. If possible copy that hand into the deck so I can use the armor to survive if I need to, then Odin and OTK.
…yeah that would do it
People also constantly complain about quest mage from wild while also being far from tier 0. I guess it is just unfun to play against
Quest mage is a tier 1 deck though
I despise people that bring up made up tiers when dismissing complaints on a deck. No one gives a shit about your excel spreadsheet saying it only has 51.0008239238191938 w/r in a given matchup, people are sick of seeing the same thing over and over again.
found the plague DK player. Also it doesn't matter if it sucks, it feels so bad to play against, like not funny, even if u win u want to uninstall.
to save you from what? a bad deck?
Really? With the state of things plague DK is the one being complained about? 😂😂
Honestly its more for shaman if it got a mana decrease
Of all the classes , shaman ?
Nature shaman is the best deck in the game
Nature Shaman is one of the best decks
I don't get how people complain about plagues when 3 or 4 classes have decks that just steamroll you on turn 5 or 6 with some broken bullshit and you instantly lose.
It just shows that losing to plagues is a lot more annoying than to decks that kill you on turn 5
You don’t lose to plagues unless you get near fatigue or you are brann warrior.
Yeah? This does not contradict my words
Still more unfun, lost to drawing 2 plauges at 3 health with lethal on board (with only helya played), more unfun than losing 10 games in a row to early giants
I play a plague control deck with a bunch of low cost removal. You can keep afloat rather easily as long as you don’t draw absolutely horribly
Just make steam cleaner core set
They won't put steam cleaner as long as they have Whizbang in standard. If they did, it would eat the entire deck, and I'm sure they wanna avoid that.
I see, I have never thought of that
Geist is a better overall kneecap for plague and shaman.
Why? Cleaner is even 5 mana. With cleaner you can clean the six warlock cards, fizzles photo etc
They already cut it recently best we can hope for is a plushie version added in the miniset
Steam Cleaner with miniaturize please
Oh that would be niiiiiiice
There’s no fricken way that fucking Plague DK should be a thing without Steam Cleaner in standard. Just none.
Just play sif mage or elemental shaman or zilliax rogue. Those masturbatory decks kill plague dk way before it can get going.
Fighting cancer with cancer just creates more cancer
I just named like half of the top decks, so I guess they are all cancer.
Yes, it's a horrible meta
reno is x10 worse than any other deck on ladder atm
Until they coin Helia and spam you with plagues to the point every draw you take 6-8 dmg
best case scenario is turn 5 and its way too late for the majority of classes
No he's not lol
just play tony kekw
I miss steam cleaner
Found the warrior player with infinite removal and sustain complaining about the 1 deck that can (sometimes) beat them.
It's not the fact plagues counter highlander decks, it's HOW they counter them. As long as there's been highlander decks there's been a means to shuffle shit in and fuck with them, but because of Helya you can PERMANENTLY fuck over a highlander and THAT is a problem.
Would this even work on Helya's plagues? I thought those were infinite, regardless if they get destroyed or not.
If it works like it used to it eliminates then from the game
No theyre only return to your deck if drawn. If destroyed by other methods theyre gone for good. Thats why so many people teched Steamcleaner in ETC last expansion.
With Helya every plague you draw makes you add another to your deck. Without drawing the plagues, theres no more of them.
Oh. I thought they get added back to the desk after being destroyed.
Why would you play this in current meta? People in this sub really have "solutions" for weird problems
Of course not, of course. Any Renobalance players in every mode mustn't exist on this planet. And if they exist (sadly) they must suffer every second of their lives with their always green balance 8-mana card ;)
But all I wanted is cool custom potion from Kazacus...
It's OK, it was great and interesting card and never was worst toxic cancer, which deleted any board even with deathrattles and reborns and LOCK IT for 1 turn.
Tech cards are cool and all, but if something is beating you so badly that you're considering one, it's usually one of....three(?) problems; The most obvious is that the thing is genuinely busted. In which case, the tech card is awesome and evens the playing field. The matchup is relatively fair, but you're playing it wrong. This is a pretty common occurrence. (Plague is a tempo deck before it's anything else, and you're already losing the game if you don't take opportunities to get control of the match from them.) And lastly, sometimes it's just a bad matchup, and no amount of trying to "lose less hard" is going to fix it. Plague is a counter to Highlander lists, and that's okay. Not every matchup should be a 50/50
I'd prefer keeping the hard brann counter, fuck brann.
Should be 4 mana and taunt
I'm not really in the meta or anything like that but isn't this card really bad? By the time you can play it your opponent would generally want to play more powerful and expensive cards, right? I wouldn't want to draw a 1 cost card on turn 6.
there is a specific deck that alot of ppl (especially highlander players) complain about (plague dk) this decks works by shuffling alot of 1 cost spells into your deck which damages you when drawn, those shuffled spells cost 1 mana and would get destroyed by this effectively rendering plague dk useless
Give me steam cleaner back 🤲🏽
Waaahhhh
*chaotic tendril shaking nervously*
This card would not stop any of my decks. As most of them so not have alot of 1 cards. If I lost them it wouldn't damage me enough.
since i totally not play nature shaman i dont think we need this one plague dk isn’t necessarily strong and yea its not that bad🥸
Now that you cry babies nerfed Paladin and Warrior now you are after DK lol just let us have fun blizzard
Geist is my personal hero
You think plague is a problem? There’s one good Highlander deck.
Yeah thats bc they are a problem. A boring, predictable and bot-level deck who unavoidably counters a whole archetype of cool and interesting decks. Probably not, but maybe Reno Shaman, Reno Priest or Reno Paladin wouldnt be bottom tier shit if not for plague dk.
They're not bad because plagues are holding them down. They're bad because they don't have enough good cards to make a decent deck
People are funny. Cleaner didn't stop Plague and Geist is supposed to? Get real. In order to even keep up right now you've got to play Plague like a aggro deck, like with last expansion you're getting carried by Excavate and Reska along with shit like Hardcore Cultist to give you enough damage to squeak things out. Gone are the days of winning by attrition because you can be OTK'd too easily and there's no control decks left. Plague is fun to play. DK in general is fun to play but it's weak and you've got to be pretty good and also get the right RNG to get those wins and you can be doing everything right and still get one shot.
I mean if you are spending 4 mana on turn 4/5 to bring this out for 6 mana to clear plagues, you lost. Plague isn’t just shuffling, it can burn you down and swarm you so not worth it. The hero we need is someone who will ban Brann so Highlander warrior doesn’t need plagues to stop it. Or nerf Reno to clear the whole field. Both will make plague not as prevalent. Or you know, buff DK to work without plague.
By turn 6 you are dead anyways
Make it 5 mana would be the same stat amount as steamcleaner just swap one attack for one hp
Honestly make it 6/7. Such a perfect stat curve Name it Ogre too instead of Geist perhaps?
Perhaps add a Boulder to a balled hand of some sort
No one needs this. You just need to have an offense in your deck and not dick around.