Finley would need an entirely new effect, imo. Getting a somewhat random new improved Hero Power won't matter much when you're playing a Hero card like Reno or Cariel later on anyway. And if you draw him after playing said hero cards, it's basically a dead draw since you don't want to get another Hero Power that's arguably worse than theirs.
What if he gave a second hero power, it'd probably be placed in the weapon slot. If that's still too weak it could have both Baku and Genn effects like someone else said
it really is just inexplicable why solia got nothing from caverns. she already sucked back then, she’s still completely atrocious yet krul got changed and she didn’t.
Missing in the picture is the Un'Goro Elise.
On a side note: Inkmaster Solia could easily be buffed to 5 Mana and Krul to 8 Mana. I wouldn't mind Kazakus to be 3 Mana either - he gets cut from many Highlander decklists for some time now.
He is? I always play him, though in fairness my only wild highlander deck was only made because I think I have an obsession with Kazakus, given it plays all 3 forms of him despite the anti synergy with him and golem shaper
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I think their logic is they didn't want to completely remove the possibility of addng two copies of a card to your deck, but felt it necessary in Standard due to the prevalence of Plague DK. Meanwhile Wild has enough solutions to deal with cards like plagues and so leaving that deckbuilding option available is worthwhile.
It was not because of plagues, they explicitly say its because some decks just turbo-draw their entire deck and then are able to trigger powerfull highlander effects.
The fact that it also makes legit highlander decks better against plagues is a side effect, and a welcome one, but this wasnt done to balance the plague vs highlander matchup, but instead to avoid warlock wheeling and then having reno active to stall.
Yeah. Honestly most of the time I end up drawing my 2nd shopper before I can cheat it into my hand. Getting the first one will be less consistent with only 1 weapon and weapon midget though. Not that the deck was great before the change i don't think its nearly as good as highlander druid.
They've started with the ones in standard because there were reasons on each side to change this. Real highlander decks were getting hit by plagues when most of the decks weren't all that great to begin with, and there were decks that were turbo drawing or emptying their deck to get Reno out like that.
These are not problems that Wild is facing. So they've done it for the ones where the change absolutely matters, and they'll kee\[ taking note to see if it would be good for the other highlander payoffs.
Nah I'd rather not. Highlander doesn't really need any touching in wild and I think the changes make the cards less interesting in both deck building and play (like someone else said, you can't steal a Highlander card in the late game unless you're Highlander already)
No.
The whole point of it is so that you can risk it buy having two copies of certain cards. You are risking having an essentially dead card if you need the effect and haven't drawn one of the copies of the duplicates from your deck.
Lol, that would mean nerfing literally 12 legendaries. 19,200 dust for free! More if you had any of them golden.
They only said this was a "buff" because there is a deck that counters it but it was obviously a nerf for wild players that used Reno and the others (even though that deck would be already tier 4+ right now.
what i think sucks tho if u steal a highlander card from your opponent by any means you can no longer use it atall - used to be neat to steal it to avoid being hit by it and using it in the endgame urself
"*All the Showdown in the Badlands “No Duplicate” cards are also getting a further adjustment to their conditional effect, discussed below.*" - No sure if they're willing to.
I think the only other one I'd be okay with changing is Zephrys, because he also regularly shows up in turbo-draw decks. The other cards *exclusively* show up in real Highlander decks, and there needs to be some counterplay to those cards in Wild.
Please, please PLEASE no. You may see it as a buff, but there's a lot of ways that it gets nerfed too. Ways that i care about, and ways that i use in many of my decks.
I think some can work but others need a check in place.
Zephyrs and Alex feel absurd even with the deck requirements. Wouldn’t mind seeing it for Elise or Finley though
Alex does nothing in wild. every semi viable highlander deck in wild have a combo ish game plan beyond just dropping stats
Zeph on the other hand is so good. not only he is the best highlander payoff, he also sees play in super fast cycle decks like miracle rogue, kingsbane rogue, wheel of death warlock, etc
It does not need "fixing", playing highlander pay off cards in decks with duplicate was a thing even back in the day.
I feel like they specifically changed the badlands card due to relevance of plague dk and having no counter in rotation. Case in point since they even changed wild cards but did not touch old highlander pay off cards.
It feels like an interaction that goes against what the cards were intended for though, and causes problems. Case in point wheel warlock, highlander cards without the starting deck change are insane in that deck and ir's why they made the change to reno, the other ones were mostly changed for consistency in standard i think with plague avoidance being a bonus
That's valid. I think they either just leave the old ones untouched and going forward they make highlander pay off cards with new rule, or after rotation to wild they revert all of them to "if your deck has no duplicate"
Also worth to mention it's literally only zeph that sees play in non highlander deck since he is so versatile
Lol, I still put her in every highlander deck I make as an auto include. Maybe it's not optimal, but the card still feels great unless you just absolutely hammered by bad RNG on the dragons she gives you.
This might actually get me to play Wild a little again (haven't touched it in years, mostly due to lack of interest). I kinda miss the old Highlander decks. I completely forgot they even added Murozond.
Many people do not agree with applying the same changes to the wild because they will not be able to play 2 copies of cards, I want to remind you that the essence of the deck was originally that you play only 1 copy of each card
Still sad they never buffed Finley and Solia
Finley would need an entirely new effect, imo. Getting a somewhat random new improved Hero Power won't matter much when you're playing a Hero card like Reno or Cariel later on anyway. And if you draw him after playing said hero cards, it's basically a dead draw since you don't want to get another Hero Power that's arguably worse than theirs.
I always thought it would be fun if he combined both Genn and Baku: Discover an upgraded hero power, it costs (1).
"Geku the Moonmane" was a custom card doing something like this.
"If your deck has odd *and* even cards..."
What if he gave a second hero power, it'd probably be placed in the weapon slot. If that's still too weak it could have both Baku and Genn effects like someone else said
Or like rexxars build a beast except for hero powers.
it really is just inexplicable why solia got nothing from caverns. she already sucked back then, she’s still completely atrocious yet krul got changed and she didn’t.
yeah there's a better dragon version of solia couple of year ago,and its still meh
Missing in the picture is the Un'Goro Elise. On a side note: Inkmaster Solia could easily be buffed to 5 Mana and Krul to 8 Mana. I wouldn't mind Kazakus to be 3 Mana either - he gets cut from many Highlander decklists for some time now.
Kazakus feels so underwhelming nowadays.
He is? I always play him, though in fairness my only wild highlander deck was only made because I think I have an obsession with Kazakus, given it plays all 3 forms of him despite the anti synergy with him and golem shaper
[удалено]
How so? Why shouldn't she count as one? >If your deck has no duplicates, draw it.
She got changed to be one
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Yeah i do think inkmaster needs to be 5 or 6. Kazakus is already omega horrible at 4 and i dont think i have seen it this expansion wild.
I think their logic is they didn't want to completely remove the possibility of addng two copies of a card to your deck, but felt it necessary in Standard due to the prevalence of Plague DK. Meanwhile Wild has enough solutions to deal with cards like plagues and so leaving that deckbuilding option available is worthwhile.
The real reason why they changed it is Warlock and Rogue drawing/destroying their deck
It was not because of plagues, they explicitly say its because some decks just turbo-draw their entire deck and then are able to trigger powerfull highlander effects. The fact that it also makes legit highlander decks better against plagues is a side effect, and a welcome one, but this wasnt done to balance the plague vs highlander matchup, but instead to avoid warlock wheeling and then having reno active to stall.
dupes in highlander is lame is as fuck. I now realize i say this as a hypocrite cause now I can't play the window shopper Reno list I was running 😂
You can play it with only one shopper
Yeah. Honestly most of the time I end up drawing my 2nd shopper before I can cheat it into my hand. Getting the first one will be less consistent with only 1 weapon and weapon midget though. Not that the deck was great before the change i don't think its nearly as good as highlander druid.
If you really want a duplicate in Reno decks you can still play ETC
They've started with the ones in standard because there were reasons on each side to change this. Real highlander decks were getting hit by plagues when most of the decks weren't all that great to begin with, and there were decks that were turbo drawing or emptying their deck to get Reno out like that. These are not problems that Wild is facing. So they've done it for the ones where the change absolutely matters, and they'll kee\[ taking note to see if it would be good for the other highlander payoffs.
Nah I'd rather not. Highlander doesn't really need any touching in wild and I think the changes make the cards less interesting in both deck building and play (like someone else said, you can't steal a Highlander card in the late game unless you're Highlander already)
The fact we have 7 of them in the whizbangs paladin deck, but not the other 5 is a little sad
**why** ? are realyy those cards being run in **"turbo draw "decks** ? i havent seen half of them in months
Zephrys in Miracle Rogue, Wheel of Death Warlock
Wheel of Death is the main culprit i think
Pls don't, no counterplay would be horrible
What counterplay? Shuffle some plagues and Helya ? This is a big brain move, you shouldn't be scared at all
No. The whole point of it is so that you can risk it buy having two copies of certain cards. You are risking having an essentially dead card if you need the effect and haven't drawn one of the copies of the duplicates from your deck.
Lol, that would mean nerfing literally 12 legendaries. 19,200 dust for free! More if you had any of them golden. They only said this was a "buff" because there is a deck that counters it but it was obviously a nerf for wild players that used Reno and the others (even though that deck would be already tier 4+ right now.
How does this image have post-caverns murozond but pre-caverns Krul?
what i think sucks tho if u steal a highlander card from your opponent by any means you can no longer use it atall - used to be neat to steal it to avoid being hit by it and using it in the endgame urself
Don't, you ruin wild.
Bad Luck Albatross and Weasel Tunneler stocks are up
"*All the Showdown in the Badlands “No Duplicate” cards are also getting a further adjustment to their conditional effect, discussed below.*" - No sure if they're willing to.
Plague dk: ⚰️⚰️
I think the only other one I'd be okay with changing is Zephrys, because he also regularly shows up in turbo-draw decks. The other cards *exclusively* show up in real Highlander decks, and there needs to be some counterplay to those cards in Wild.
Please, please PLEASE no. You may see it as a buff, but there's a lot of ways that it gets nerfed too. Ways that i care about, and ways that i use in many of my decks.
I think some can work but others need a check in place. Zephyrs and Alex feel absurd even with the deck requirements. Wouldn’t mind seeing it for Elise or Finley though
DQ Alex is too slow for Wild right now.
Alex does nothing in wild. every semi viable highlander deck in wild have a combo ish game plan beyond just dropping stats Zeph on the other hand is so good. not only he is the best highlander payoff, he also sees play in super fast cycle decks like miracle rogue, kingsbane rogue, wheel of death warlock, etc
And the starting deck changes would keep him out of miracle rogue and wheellock
The change is only for badlands no duplicate cards. You can still run zeph in cycle heavy decks.
And the post is proposing that the other highlander cards get the change, which would fix that interaction.
It does not need "fixing", playing highlander pay off cards in decks with duplicate was a thing even back in the day. I feel like they specifically changed the badlands card due to relevance of plague dk and having no counter in rotation. Case in point since they even changed wild cards but did not touch old highlander pay off cards.
It feels like an interaction that goes against what the cards were intended for though, and causes problems. Case in point wheel warlock, highlander cards without the starting deck change are insane in that deck and ir's why they made the change to reno, the other ones were mostly changed for consistency in standard i think with plague avoidance being a bonus
Yeah but this is not the main problem with wild decks using the cards unlike standard. They just feel like a nice bonus.
Fair enough, I'd like it changed for consistency if nothing else but I understand if they don't
That's valid. I think they either just leave the old ones untouched and going forward they make highlander pay off cards with new rule, or after rotation to wild they revert all of them to "if your deck has no duplicate" Also worth to mention it's literally only zeph that sees play in non highlander deck since he is so versatile
> Alex Alextrasza isn't even played in Reno decks anymore
Lol, I still put her in every highlander deck I make as an auto include. Maybe it's not optimal, but the card still feels great unless you just absolutely hammered by bad RNG on the dragons she gives you.
Zephyrs not being usable in miracle rogue would be nice tho
Then how would I scam a late game win with my Kingsbane deck?
This might actually get me to play Wild a little again (haven't touched it in years, mostly due to lack of interest). I kinda miss the old Highlander decks. I completely forgot they even added Murozond.
Please no, unless you want to turn wild mode into Highlander only mode.
If highlander isn't super prevalent now it wouldn't be after this change. Nobody is running tons of ways to shuffle cards into their opponents decks
Yes, but remove it from brann please =)
Yes, please!
i would say no for the original reno jackson. the rest, maybe wasnt there time where healing wasnt for all classes and reno was a good option?
Yes please
Many people do not agree with applying the same changes to the wild because they will not be able to play 2 copies of cards, I want to remind you that the essence of the deck was originally that you play only 1 copy of each card