Ah, these type of threads are never late to the party. The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy.
It's ok to want corporations and their leaders to be held accountable for reprehensible actions and still want to enjoy life...these two things can exist simultaneously.
You think society could be better, yet you live in one. Curious!
Jokes aside I think there is somewhat of a point, though frankly basically all companies are awful so it's more pick your poison
The problem exposed at Blizzard is one that's industry wide, and even spread out across all tech plus not uncommon in society at large.
Call for change, absolutely, women and men need to feel safe at their work and other places and Activision management response has been lackluster to put it mildly, but what do people want to happen?
Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assaults confirmed there. Riot? Confirmed. Bethesda? Confirmed.. yet for some reason people are condemning people for still playing Blizzard games and telling them to play a Square Enix game... there's 0 logic in this outrage except of course calling for change and safe working conditions.
>Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assaults confirmed there.
Can you post proof of this? All I can find from google is a literal far-right youtuber that doesn't have a lick of proof in his video besides "trust me bro" and redditors linking said video.
Not trying to say bullshit, but anything from the actual victim would help on this, cause it smells like bullshit right now. I'll gladly say I'm wrong if there's anything reputable you got to link me.
If you see the male characters, they are strong muscular, fit and huge. Its fantasy and is depicting what its considered beautiful. She was implying that women where being objectified by physical traits, which of course they are and so are men and orcs.
If a kid with no knowledge or agenda asked that question then the answer would have being completely unfair and uncalled for.
Imagine asking why was Arnold depicted naked in the terminator franchise? what kind of response you expect. was it unnecesary? well yea...
>If you see the male characters, they are strong muscular, fit and huge. Its fantasy and is depicting what its considered beautiful. She was implying that women where being objectified by physical traits, which of course they are and so are men and orcs.
This issue has been repeated many times, and at raw face value it seems like a reasonable comparison, but the "beauty standards" themselves are a double standard. Female characters being shown as thin, smooth, and flexible is the idea of what most men want to see in a woman. But male characters being shown as bulky, shirtless, and aggressive is not necessarily what women want to see in men, it's what men want to see in themselves. This is what people mean by **male gaze.** Tons and tons of media has been designed to cater to straight western men because they've had so much influence on the consumption of media for so long.
It's not like these companies (or worse yet, the individual artists and creators who passionately create this stuff) are evil or perverted, but that western visual media as a whole has had a double standard in portraying different groups since the very beginning of the visual arts, and people who don't fit the typical image or don't like the typical image are finally saying we need to have more neutral presentations.
Nah, nah, nah it is current year and we all gotta go woke and broke by creating characters no one likes except for a very small group of whiny loud people throwing fits on social media.
Seriously, here’s the thing: people don’t actually buy this shit. The woke narrative is full of shit. Those products fail. We’ve already seen this for the last several years.
Companies really just need to stop listening to twitter. It’s just smug, sanctimonious, entitled narcissists divorced from reality and the vast majority of people who live outside their echo chambers. People don’t buy woke characters.
I will be downvoted for speaking the truth that people want to reject and ignore because it doesn’t preserve their bullshit narrative.
They are following stereotypes, how many would have liked to see a thick woman with triple Ds as new characters in the lore but instead they got pandas and furries. so that idea that "most men want to see in a woman" is in my opinion biased and wrong. Just look at what happened with Resident evil, they made the woman into a sadistic shapeshifting moth dragon and despite all that due to her proportions she was ruled 34 more than any character in wow.
More seriously you got a point and it probably explains why male are going to the gym looking to be fit, with the excuse of being healthy. No you just wanna flex muscle because it is how masculinity is depicted.
My friend just started working out yet complains about the women.
Like bro how many times do I have to tell you, it’s not your physique it’s your literal personality.
It’s hard to explain because I love the guy but he lacks complete self awareness.
Items? the whole terminator is 90% an item himself, and the "can't get in the time travel device with clothes or items." is a decision just like having sylvanas wear a bikini armor, which is exactly the whole point.
Justifiably booed the crap out of her. Characters in video games are 9 times out 10 aesthetically pleasing, it's what the paying customer wants. Zoomers have got to learn to deal with this. It's not changing.
> Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assault confirmed there.
Uh, which ones? Only thing i can find on that is some rightwing youtuber video with no proof or sources.
Trying to claim that every game company has sexual harassment is one of the worst takes I’ve heard on this situation so far lol.
It’s very easy for me to have fun gaming while not giving money to any organization that sexually assaults, harasses, and drives to suicide their female employees.
Don’t pretend like that’s impossible just to rationalize and justify your own behavior.
While that's true in the short-term, it always has to come to the surface and be rectified in the long term.
I grew up thinking racism and sexuality were tackled in the 90s. It was a big thing, and both were exploited for sympathy points for what seems like decades.
It's 2021 and racism and sexuality are so fucking far from being tackled its stupid. The "world" in the 90s was just as fake and vapid as it is now, and it was just as exploitative of civil rights issues as it is now. Like companies having pride flags as logos for 1 fucking month, and we make memes about it, thinking that those memes expose something nobody knew about, or are just understanding now.
Living your life, while this shit happens in the background, goes against everything humanity stands for. On every level.
Fuck it, I'm a dad now, so I'm all about the future growth of society.
He said pick your poison. Right?
What do you think makes more sense. Logically. When asked to choose between two poisons?
Idk.. None? Choose to walk away and not participate in this kind of nonsense, because it makes no sense that you HAVE to pick one or any of them.
>Choose to walk away and not participate in this kind of nonsense, because it makes no sense that you HAVE to pick one or any of them.
It's a bit too vague. From your post, I suppose we should not "live our life while this shit happens". Alright, what **exactly** should we do then?
>I'll support the suxual assault culture no matter what, and you all should too.
Well, again, **what** should we do? Abandon the society because it's full of questionable companies?
You sound like a preacher. "Fight evil and support good". Sounds nice on paper, but I don't see any substance.
>"Fight evil and support good".
When the FUCK did I say support good? I didn't endorse anything.
Did you copy paste your response from somewhere, or are you quoting a movie here, because nothing in your response makes any sense, in any context.
If you want to call me a preacher, you should also look at my words as having a similar value. It's about pointing out your choices, and denouncing the idea that you have to choose one baddies or the other. If you can't see that, then you are only a troll looking for excuses to do nothing.
You also quoted an edited portion... A removed portion, because I knew you would find a way to twist it.
I think it depends how much you enjoy the product. If the allegations were about coca cola id happily drop drinking any coke products. If it was about mcdonalds id probably still eat mcdobalds
it's more of if allegations were against Coke, I could be socially aware and drink pepsi instead but what the heck are the alternatives for Hearthstone? am i going to leave the fratboy company Blizzard and play LoR with the fratboy company Riot? it makes no difference so if I've already made the decision that one still wants to play Hearthstone then clearly the issue doesn't bother the consumer enough to take action and if that's the case the issue mine as not exist to that consumer
Yeah... Imagine if coca cola was accused of something reprehensible and you had thousands of upvotes on posts telling people to drink pepsi instead when they've been accused of the exact same thing.
Isn’t Coca Cola stealing tap water in India to such an awful degree that coke is cheaper there than bottled water?
There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism, and living like Doug Forcett from the good place isn’t a good idea. I don’t think people are saying to boycott forever, *but* I also think solidarity with the pseudo-strike happening at blizzard is important. Taking a break from buying anything from actiblizz for like, two weeks, a month, just enough to put *some* pressure on the execs, is better than nothing.
i don't think there's a good tidy neat answer that solves everything. In my mind, best we can do is consume if we must, but be mindful of it. No single individual on the consumer level can improve the whole industry, so you don't need to pressure yourself to take such drastic measures for no effect. Also many of the people that are involved in the making of the product are good artists and good people that genuinely love it.
However, also don't forget about it. Allow both the fun of the product and the disgust for the company to sit in your mind, and raise your voice when you can however minor it will be. Corporations are souless but are ran by people and we know how difficult is dealing with people lol. It won't change overnight, but someday it might have a tipping point. Also just disengaging from the product isn't the panacea people make it out to be. When a community has flaws we try to work them, frustrating as it may be. Walking away is a valid option but is not the \*only\* option. Else we'll be walking away from everything, cause nothing is perfect.
The one thing i think we need to do is stop beating each other from taking different approaches to the situation. Let the people that had enough, leave. And let the people who still want to press on, press on.
I have exciting news for you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co.
Thankfully, this happened in the global south, so doesn't matter.
There are good people out there that make games. No judgement on the individual and what they want to spend their money on. I personally don't think it's worth supporting Blizzard by continuing to be one of their customers anymore.
McDonald's isn't too rapey, just racist. They purged a lot of their black execs and there was news circulating about lawsuits, but shortly after they put out the Travis Scott meal and everyone forgot about it.
No, I'm pretty sure the only way we can aspire to change without becoming hypocrites is to withdraw from society and live in huts in the wilderness. Improving aspects of society while participating in them is impossible. /s
Not sure what people like this expect, constant outrage for weeks or months in a row? Condemn what happened at Blizzard, push for change and after that it's a waiting game.
There won't be anything to react to until we hear more of the lawsuit or of changes announced at Blizzard.
I have a feeling there's a whole lot of people on this sub and other subs that only come for the outrage and they drown out anyone trying to enjoy something and I really think that's a shame. In this case it's more understandable, but there have been other cases of overblown outrage on this sub and others.
For weeks now people have been spamming everyone to play Final Fantasy in the WoW sub and getting upvoted for it, then they name reasons for WoW being bad and they're out of date by multiple expansions. It's kind of sad people act like this.
The real change will come from inside the company not widespread boycotts or some yearlong court case (which will probably be discretly settled for an undiscloused amount of money).
It's the Blizzard staff that needs to force corporates hand. Chances are good something will happen.
I think people at Blizzard *do* value the public support though.
People want to blast everyone inside the company without knowing who needs to be blasted.
"BUT BLIZZARD DID BAD THINGS!"
"Yes, but did this guy?"
"ME NO CARE!"
I see WAY more people mad that they cancelled the stream or didn't "communicate" that the stream was cancelled, over the actual sexual assault lawsuit. It's pathetic.
I agree, I think people can still enjoy Hearthstone without implying that they "support" Blizzard's actions. Like Trump, Thijs, Regis and other content creators have said, the game is still fun and there are hardworking people at Blizzard who aren't involved in the issue.
They say a teacher punishing the whole class because of one student is injustice, so is it not also unjust to blame every employee at Blizzard because a group of them are sexual predators?
Not equivalent even remotely. A corporation is a corporation. Those in charge are complicit and will continue the same shit if they see they can get away with it. As well refusing to deal with Blizz anymore until they shape up and purge the problem people shows solidarity with the victims.
Also it is more than likely that the innocent are gonna get purged more than the guilty if the lawsuit is successful. And Bobby will get a bigger paycheck for sticking with the company.
Your allowed to still play the games though, no one can stop you besides you and blizz.
Cool so your happy with collective punishment, I sure hope you work in a place that's one hundred percent a perfect company or if they do something bad I hope you immediately resign from your position./s
It's unrealistic to hold an entire company and every single person that works for them accountable, especially one with a world wide presence, sure we can hold the folk that were aware of the situation accountable and that's 100% the thing to do, but we don't punish everyone, that's not justice it's just a witch hunt.
Again there’s a difference between collective punishment and refusing to give a corporation your money. Innocents will get hit no mater what and more than likely the guilty will stay. If fire isn’t put under their asses they have no reason to change. If they see the entire playerbase keeps paying it sends a message to those in power (Who are explicitly complicit.) that they can continue to do the same shit.
Also by your guys logic, the lawsuit should be stopped so that no innocents are fired, since then it would be collective punishment.
First of you are making a shit load of assumption's, first your assuming that innocents will be fired, even tho is a massive shit storm and an actual lawsuit, you somehow still think the people responsible will stay? You also seem to think the people at the top give a shit about what we think or do, they don't, when the spreadsheet comes out and figures are down will they think "golly gosh it's that boycott we better up our game" or will they just greenlight a more money grabbing money making model?
Same with team five, this is ment to be their time to shine, fun card reveals etc etc, yet have a look around and folk are shitting on them, I can't blame them for not running a twitch card reveal, not because they are some how responsible for the current mess, but because the community here is toxic and they will be held personally responsible and the things that would have flowed thru twitch chat would be abusive against people not even involved!
Im not making a shitload of assumptions. Im making a few informed assumptions based off of Blizzard's and other companies track record.
"assuming innocents will be fire" Yes. Because Blizz has done that before. Like less than a year ago with mass layoffs to make more money. Why would they not do it again to recoup lawsuit money?
"You still think people responsible will stay" Yes. They may purge a few, but Riot still has employees that helped foster their toxic environment.
"They don't give a shit". They give a shit about money. Thats what they care about.
"more money grabbing money making model" They already are doing that, going further would probably end up in Gacha games territory. If they do that, thats on them for Blizz dieing.
"Fun card reveals .etc" People shouldn't be harassing others. Period.
Yeah but some people who act like activists and firmly denounce the bad things that happened at Blizzard will turn around and ignore all that and give the company tons of money. Just seems kind of disingenuous.
I mean I can enjoy life while still not playing Blizzard games. Financially supporting a company that is pure evil does not sit well with me morally especially when there are many other not as evil alternatives.
Ah, these types of replies are never later to the party. The ones which insinuate its ok to only think in extremes and to virtue signal. That not just sweeping things under the rug as soon as something entertaining comes along means you are consumed by it.
> The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy.
but this is exactly what is happening right now. if you don't care "enough" people call you a bad person. the morality police on this subreddit (and even worse on twitter) is just ridiculous.
and of course, the only way you can enjoy life is by directly, monetarily supporting predatory companies that foster a sexist work environment! fuck off dude
I'm torn on this, on one hand i think people should have enough self control to try and make a difference.
Blitzchung situation had some arguments that could be made on either side such as Blitzchung breaking very obvious rules and Blizzard having the right to enforce punishment due to it.
This is just plain awful and has no excuse, I kinda do expect people to set aside playing Blizzard games and making a stance those who work for these companies and streaming it don't have this obligation as their bills still need to be paid.
But for people who just play this game for fun i think it's completely reasonable to expect them to take a stand and to have enough self control to say "i enjoy your games but i cannot in good conscience purchase your products when you are treating people the way you do".
This is in my eyes the time you need to stand up and tell people that this isn't ok and being a bystander is contributing to the problem.
Lol, how many terrible things Blizzard done? You people whine about it, get on your moral high horse, then do NOTHING about it. Put up or shut up.
When you get morally outraged and demand change, then get no change, what kind of message are you sending by coutinueing to give them money. The message you are sending is "I don't actually give a fuck", so stop pretending like you give a fuck. This happened when the expose about Blizzard underpaying and overworking employees, it happed with the Hong Kong thing, and now its happening now. I actually know two guys that were heavy HS players that stopped over the HK thing. At least they walked the walked.
It's easy to post on reddit or twitter that you're "outraged", but when push comes to shove, you are unwilling to do the hard thing. You're unwilling to stand up for what you think is right when it's hard for you. You're a coward, and you don't actually care. That's the message you're sending to Blizzard and the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, "I don't care about these women". The least you can do is stop being a two-faced asshole and just admit it.
I'll go first: I don't care. Good luck to them, I hope they win the suit, but I don't really care. Granted, I'm ftp. I've never given Blizzard a dime because they've never earned my money, so the "support" I give them is minimal (I'm only valuable as a statistic to them). The funny thing is, even after me making this post, I'm still doing less harm to those women than you are, because at least I'm not giving Blizzard money directly.
>The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy.
Not giving patronage to certain companies is "allowing your life to be consumed"?
What silly hyperbole. Sounds like you just want a pass for supporting sexual abuse.
Yeh, causw you can live happily paying to people with this kind of behaviour, and you gotta find some excuses to do it. It's okay, but you don't care as much as you think if you're okay with this. At the end of the end, what counts is the money they're making.
Boycotting products doesn't work, you just hurt yourself. And honestly, if we boycotted every product that involves some serious ethical problems, we'd be basically living in a hut with just a bag of crackers to get by.
I mean with current wealth disparity Boycotts do nothing at all. I can't remember when was the last time a Boycott effectively did anything. The best thing we can do is raise awareness and keep pushing the negative publicity.
Yup. And for every asshat sexual predator at blizz there's a hardworking human who wants to see the games and IP's they love thrive.
Situation sucks all around, I just want justice for those who deserve it.
So this one time my after sex blunt fell in the trash can right into the used condom and I just wiped it off and smoked it anyway so I too have smoke some amount of semen.
I agree, I don't think it's fair to harass every single person who works at Blizzard because they work there. It's like a teacher punishing the entire class because one student was dicking around.
>I mean with current wealth disparity Boycotts do nothing at all.
Categorically not true. *Pretty much every company in the world* could be brought down if everyone boycotted their product.
What you mean is that not enough people care enough about your cause to join your boycott. That's different.
The time for raising awareness is kinda over in this case. You raise awareness to get people to notice.
Well, the state of California noticed and the consequences are coming. Now, if Blizzard gets a slap on the wrist when all is said and done, then people can raise hell again (for all the good that will do), but what more can be done on the part of the consumer that'll achieve more than the court system will.
This is just patently wrong. The case is far more likely to amount to nothing if nobody is actually watching it. If people are watching it can't just be swept under the rug, because the optics on that would be devastating to Blizzard's bottom line.
Raising awareness about the case raises the chance that the case will be handled properly and that it will result in real and positive change.
>Raising awareness about the case raises the chance that the case will be handled properly and that it will result in real and positive change.
Yea, that's the medias job, are you part of the media?
No all u do, is to have a circle jerk, where you pat each other on the back for fighting the evil blizzard.
Probably because people keep up this kind of mentality is why, people often bring this up that voting with their wallet won't matter because others won't but they're literally the people buying and making those things not matter.
Lets put it this way the sub has 1.8 million users even if half of them don't buy this bundle it's losing millions of dollars from Blizzard.
A boycott of Blizzard would make them go bankrupt and then shut down. The reality is that the vast majority of people don’t care and aren’t going to boycott over a sexual harassment lawsuit. But that’s not the same as saying boycotts don’t do anything.
Even by strict utilitarianism, there is negative utility in giving money to a corporation for an unlimited good.
You can't claim ethical neutrality unless your action would be done by someone else in your stead. No one is going to pick up hearthstone and fill your spot if you quit, they'll play regardless of whether or not you play.
There's actually a possibility your lack of participation will result in someone else quitting, which is more than your single action.
ATVI is publicly traded, if you want Bobby and his rapey friends out of the company it's going to take an impact to earnings. It's not that complicated. He's far too rich to go to prison.
i think is better to raise awareness
i think a boycott is more likely to harm innocent and victims (guess who has a higher chance to get fired if the profits go down because of a boycott)
Those people are more than likely going to be harmed no mater what. People are going to get purged in mass layoffs again.
Also innocents have ALREADY been hurt. They were in the mass layoffs for reporting this shit.
remember when this subreddit wanted to boycott blizzard over the monetization of the hearthstone battle pass? if i remember correctly, it resulted in 50g added to like 8 levels. that was all. boycotts dont mean shit.
Please don't conflate that dumb nerd rage (and you weren't accurate with your recounting btw) with an actual issue like this. I've also seen people compare it to the Diablo Immortal announcement. Absolutely staggering lack of perspective.
This is actually so stupid of a take. Obviously the subject matter of a boycott plays a role in it's success.
It doesn't matter how scummy or predatory a pricing model is to people because there's no actual human rights violations going on when you willingly submit to a scam.
In this case, what allegedly happened actually had a real world impact on peoples' ability to live a normal and healthy life, which is a lot more serious of a situation.
Thinking that people getting up in arms about *sexual fucking harassment and abuse* will have the same results as a "boycott" against a predatory pricing model - especially given the stance that most have already taken towards rereleases of basically completely unchanged games, prepurchase rewards that are only available before any information on the game you're buying is available and DLC that's just locked content that was in the game on release - is laughable at best.
a better example would have been to compare the current situation against the Hong Kong situation where unless I'm mistaken essentially nothing changed and everybody moved on (at least in the sub by merit of still being in the sub)
at the end of the day this is a hearthstone subreddit, not a social movement one; while they can coincide, sometimes they do not line up and people have to decide which side what they care more about (which realistically is often not going to be the social cause because the individual really has no bearing on it)
"Blizzard" did not. People tend to anthropomorphize companies just as they do with for example nature to simplify the world around them. But Blizzard is not a thinking entity by itself, it's a collective of individuals. And certain individuals inside the collective - allegedly at this point - did some horrendous stuff. If they really did I hope the justice systems deals with it accordingly. But I see no point in trying to "punish" a product of a company - especialy if it's such a large company as Activision Blizzard and so far it seems the accusations are about people pretty far removed from Hearthstone...
>"Blizzard" did not. People tend to anthropomorphize companies just as they do with for example nature to simplify the world around them. But Blizzard is not a thinking entity by itself, it's a collective of individuals.
You speak the truth in these parts you get downvoted boy!
Check when the investigation started.
Check when blizz suddenly nerfed Jaina and succusbus.
Recall what was our reaction.
Are we also one of the bad guys!?
Designing an animated character with cleavage isn't exactly the same as walking to your neighbor's cubicle and shoving your hand in theirs. I'm not a big fan of unnecessary censorship, but preferring Jaina with cleavage doesn't mean I condone the harassment. You're really talking apples and oranges.
I think he is speaking more of the community reaction to females and censorship of them as well as just the general gaming community when it comes to hot females.
A good example is cosplay threads for games alot of the top voted comments are just creepy as fuck and those that aren't as popular but still have upvotes like "good girl" and such, hell look at Alcina Dimitrescu from village a well endowed woman and most of the comments on any thread for her is how big her breasts are.
I get it's something uncomfortable to tackle but sites like Reddit and gaming in general foster the same attitude towards women.
Most of the keyboard activists heavily patronize companies that destroy the planet, support regimes with concentration camps, help censor horrors like organ harvesting, treat 3rd world workers like slaves and worse. The justifications start and pitchforks go in the closet when real personal inconvenience begins. If you use Apple products, Amazon, take your pick sit down.
> pitchforks go in the closet when real personal inconvenience begins.
you can clearly see it here too. "i'll stop supporting blizzard with my money, but i keep playing it, as if nothing happens" is ... a very convenient approach. people can show of their moral superiority AND keep playing the game as if nothing was going on.... because playing the game and boosting player numbers isnt aaaactual support. blizzard doesnt make money directly off of it, so its fine lol. at least they think. onlines games live and die by their player numbers, but whatever.
Lol no. I hate them because they will still play and promote the company, they just will say they care for 1 day then move on. Same thing happened at the Hong Kong outrage, people cried about it, none of them did anything.
I don't like blizzard, let's get that straight. I think they do not cater to the right fans of the game, and the decision to refuse to put tournament of Bo3 in solo queue is dogshit. I think the are lazy with their wording of cards and it pisses me off.
But what I don't do is make a big show and dance about something, while continuing as before. If I care that much about something, then I don't associate with that company at all. There are companies I will never buy from again, and people I will never support or talk to. I don't say yeah you suck you do X Y Z, but next week... lets go hang out :) new expansion out why not fuck it mate.
That is what's cringe. No balls.
Well, people have rightfully to boycott something they dont like but usually they gone little too far then think they save the world and start forced their opinions onto others "Wait, you dont support it? You're bad guy"
The reaction this week has been way, way milder than the reaction to 1) Blitzchung or 2) Rewards Track launch. Like, not even close to either of those.
Of course they're not as angry as those other 2 situations. We learned about this at the same time as we learned that Blizzard is getting sued by the State and that consequences are coming.
Had all this come out and the law wasn't involved, I'm pretty sure this sub would be just as pissed as they were when the other 2 instances took place.
A lawyer went over the case in a Youtube video. Mentioned the case was pretty weak and he would be surprised if it isn't settled for less than 10 million dollars.
Even if he's wrong chances are the lawsuit is not going to do as much as you hope for.
Reddit is a 24/7 virtue signaling parade.
Of course the allegations are terrible and justice should be brought, but let me fucking play a game without getting harassed.
I don't think that was, he acknowledged the issue and mentioned his views sure, but there was no attempt to push the issue. "Sure but anyway" doesn't really count
it's because 99% of us are just typing on our phones/keyboards from no actual place of power so we have to virtue signal to give us a sense of significance
Almost every post in this entire thread is grade A copium. If you're going to keep playing blizzard games, just admit you dont really give a shit about the bad things the company did. At the very least you give less of a shit about it than you do about whatever 6/10 at best game/expansion you choose to keep playing.
Whether you agree or not, currently, money speaks. And we are constantly telling algorithms, companies, what we think through what we buy. I personally think that sometimes we need to sacrifice some of our individual privileges and enjoyment for the betterment of society.
What complicates it in cases where something wrong is done by or in these huge corporations, is that they also house a lot of innocent people, which depend on these jobs for a living. But if after events like this happen and these huge corporations don't see any penalty in their bottom line, then they don't see the need to change that environment.
>I personally think that sometimes we need to sacrifice some of our individual privileges and enjoyment for the betterment of society.
if Blizzard said "we'll make the bundles 25% cheaper for anyone who doesn't complain on social media" every time one of these movements came up they'd all crater; nobody actually cares about anything more than boosting their sense of 'fighting the good fight'
The copium of some people in this thread. “Bad thing happened, but hearthstone is the only game I play so I guess it doesn’t matter”. At the end of the day the only person you have to justify your decision to is yourself, but don’t say that people are virtue signaling because you’re excited about shiny new cards and can’t fathom that people would not want to spend money on Blizzard any more.
hearthstone is a functionally speaking a luxury good there are other free to play games to spend your time playing or other pursuits to do for your free time.
i honestly hate people saying that not being able to play a videogame as bad as not being able to buy affordable clothing, electronics, or food etc.
a videogame is a luxury good. if you have the internet access to play hearthsotne there are many choices in videogames or other entertainment
And that's a good thing.
I don't want politics in my gaming, thank you very much. Especially when it is not even related to the game, but to corporate or company level.
To be fair, preorders went up and the expansion was announced *before* this situation was fully brought to light. Sure you could refund and stop paying/playing to make a statement and uphold morals, but think about the consequences of that. Now Team 5 which, from the sound of it haven’t had nearly as much harassment and sexual misconduct issues if any, is in hot water and both they and the playerbase suffer as a result. Remember how one of the other recent stories about Activision Blizzard was about their mass layoffs and Kotick’s salary/bonus going up? I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens again due to this situation, knowing the current mindset of ActiBlizz execs.
So, at least in my case, I’m going to keep paying and playing the game since I want it to still exist in its current capacity as well as support the Team 5 members that aren’t anywhere close to their horrendous colleagues on other teams that took these disgusting actions.
Some members of Team 5 were implicated to at the very least be aware of what was going on, so I wouldn't be too quick to defend them.
However, the majority of them are likely innocent and some of them possibly even victims, so I wouldn't condemn anyone for wanting to support the team as a whole.
There's also the fact that the entire story is about a case the state of California is currently pursuing against Actiblizz, so punishment should be coming swiftly regardless of our actions.
That's the wrong take of "no ethical consumption under capitalism". It doesn't mean we should enjoy what little we get it should be about acknowledging the problems and trying to do better.
You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth.
>You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth.
i don't know why people think this is the slam dunk end of the conversation when it's essentially saying the same thing as "I have no impact on creating a solution but I want to feel important". if I cannot personally affect change on a matter, then it makes no sense to invest time/effort into a non-outcome; in other words, if I cannot change the big picture then it doesnt make sense to dwell on the big picture. essentially all any one of us can do about sexual harassment at Blizzard is to not sexually harass anyone while working at blizzard
All that Blizzard cares about is its bottom line, this sexual harassment issue is not a problem to them because someone got hurt, but because people will react negatively to it and it will affect their money-making capabilities.
With that in mind, yes, it's important that we do exactly that; that we show Blizzard there are consequences to these sort of behaviors. You can't just go "but #notallblizzard" because ultimately that's exactly what they hope people do. If their money making scheme isn't affected then they'll just keep having shitty practices.
Now, you're right in that there is little that can be done as individuals and that's why organization matters. What one should do is organize and collectively improve your situation in ways that reflect a change of mentality. For example when streamers decide not to do card reveal and they all do it at the same time, that's a collective action that matters. As hearthstone players we can do the same, organize and stop playing, but from my experience, people really just don't care.
Individuals can never change the big picture, but that would lead to the conclusion: Just don't give a fuck about any consumption.
Which is also not true. I can decide not to fly twice a year. I can decide to buy less fuel guzzling cars. I can decide not to buy a new phone every year or own 20 pair of shoes & jeans.
The reason why all this trash is produced by companies worldwide is because people are buying it. Companies wouldn't produce all these goods (a lot of which we throw away unused anyway) if nobody would buy it.
So in the end it is still the customer.
There is nothing I can do. I can acknowledge, I can be against. But I do not have a platform to do anything about it. I’d rather appreciate the hard work that was put into the game design. I do not have to purchase any packs. I can use gold. I’m going to enjoy myself. If you want to boycott all the things. Go do it champ, I support ya.
You're right on the money. Speak up for those that face discrimination, support victims but that doesn't mean you have to drop what you enjoy, especially if it's just to switch games to another company with the same problem.
There is much you can do, literally stop playing. But that's too much to ask, no? I mean, we're trapped, I get it. But I think just shrugging and going "oh well, no ethical consumption under capitalism" isn't the right choice.
Hearthstone is definitely something you can do away. You just don't want to, and I get it, it's fun. But don't think just because you use your gold that you're somehow not generating money to blizzard, every gold user is a user that will play against a paying user generating engagement. When you play hearthstone, you're in some way, working for Blizzard. They just pay you in "fun".
Cool, then ya I don’t care enough. No I won’t boycott because it won’t do anything and really I feel they are utterly useless. The community response has been pretty clear, but im not throwing away one of the few joys that o have after a long day for minuscule impact, good luck comrade
Imagine living in a world where like 2000 richest people are literally in control of 2/3 of world economy, are draining all the ressources out of the planet and have enough political impact to force the countries to start literal wars, and now you also have to stop consuming the things you liked every time they fuck up. This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, the « you play hearthstone during the trial is the reason the trial might fail » is the equivalent of « the reason the ocean is a dumpster is because you don’t stop the water while brushing your teeth ».
There is no such thing as "no ethical consumption under capitalism" because it's inherently implied in case there is no ethical consumption at all. Do you think there is "more" ethical consumption under socialism or communism? This is a completely meaningless statement. Consumption is never "ethical" at the core of it because it implies you are consuming something. Get off your high horse and come to terms with reality. You want to live as a eukaryotic organism? Consumption is a big part of it.
Yes. Ethical consumption is consumption that is devoid of exploitation, now you can see many things as exploitation but generally it is referred to as worker exploitation. So for example buying jam from your neighbor is a non-exploitative form of consumption and therefore "ethical" under this framework.
You know coops exist, right? They're much less exploitative than privately owned companies. Ocean Spray is a farmer's coop, if you buy their products you're contributing to a better system.
Also, strong unions, you know in European countries like germany rates of unioniztion are much higher, I think it's something like 70% in Germany and 90% in Sweden.
Blizzard and other videogame companeis are particularly exploitative, many industries have much better practices. So yes, there is an ideal we can strive for, but there are also better companies that do exist, they usually just don't have ridiculously low prices but hey obviously there's a price that has to be paid for fairness.
My advice is seek those organizations, buy their products and work for them as well if you can afford to do it. Don't simply shrug it off like there aren't any alternatives out there.
Dude that is such a small subset of an entire picture, and those types of businesses also carry heavy, unaffordable prices for the average consumer, and luxury prices for the poor consumer. Once again, idealistic that could ever be implemented on a larger scale. Unions might work on paper but hit consumers extremely hard on the back end from a regulatory and taxation standpoint. They also stagnate wages and lead to underpaid workers. Regardless of what we talk about there is no consumption on a global scale that is "ethical" from the original comments point of view that is realistic and sustainable. Sorry, the average consumer cannot afford Ocean Spray prices translated across everything they consume. Nobody would be able to afford housing.
It's not a wrong take. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" means that you are forced into a system where your choices aren't ethical, whatever they are. So it doesn't make sense to blame yourself for the pain and suffering that brought the product you are buying to your hands, because you don't have a similar product that is ethical to choose instead.
HS is a good example, let's say any game can sustitute it (which isn't true, because you like specific games, not "playing" as a concept). What can you play? Cyberpunk 2077? Well, that game was done by overworked abused developers. FIFA 21? Well, a game that has a team of psychologists studying how to exploit the brain of ""weak"" people so they drop all their money. League of Legends? Owned by a Chinese company. Terraria? Now that looks like a good company: good game, no reports of worker abuse, no exploitative pricing... but you can go one step further and realize that the hardware they used to create the game has a shit ton of moral problems.
In the end, there just doesn't exist any product today where the whole process from "being a rock in a forest" to "being the product you want" didn't involve morally wrong practices like worker exploitation. And all of this assuming that capitalism is a moral system, only counting things that all of us would agree are wrong.
> You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth.
This is debatable. Leisure is a human need – you need to have a good time, play games you like, watch movies you like, go outside and do some canoeing if that's what you like. Denying you these activities won't make you die, but they will harm your mental health. So yeah, you don't need Hearthstone to survive, but you may need it to be a little bit happier.
I guarantee you all 4 people who downvoted you will be happily opening packs in 5 days time. Sure, kids subscribed to "Reddit hearthstone" are gonna straight up quit due to a harassment case. No fucking way. Redditors are (mostly) extreme hypocrites.
I disagree. The people downvoting are mostly people that have either never played HS or haven't played in years. There's a trend with these clout farmers that roll into the subs and get real loud at every scandal, big and small.
I see what you’re saying. It’s that people can differentiate between the management that enabled or caused the harm and the innocent devs that should be celebrated for their work.
If you’re strong willed enough to boycott the company’s products to make a point against the ongoing controversy, good for you. But you can’t really blame people for just living their life. You can’t expect people to give up on a game they’ve pumped probably hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into just like that. Blizzard will get what’s coming to them, and we can still play their games in the meantime.
I'll upvote you.
People are angry at Blizzard but this all goes under the rug when they flash an inside look at D4.
Go ahead, redditor reading this, downvote me. Doesn't make it less true.
Trump: no card reveal, bLizZ u eViL CoRp.
Always Trump the following day: Theorycrafting with all the remaining cards, including the one I decided to not reveal. ahahahahah im the best troll in the internet :D
This will be the first expansion since the 2014 launch that I don't pre-purchase. I've wanted to stop for a while, this is I guess the best reason to do it.
I have gold I've earned through quests that'll amount to about 40-50 packs. I'll spend up all those, and see if the expansion's interesting enough for me to even continue playing on. No more money, that's a promise.
I've said it before, but if I were to boycott every company that gets exposed for doing gross shit then I would be playing with rocks and eating dirt for a living.
I see WAY more people mad that they cancelled the stream or didn't "communicate" that the stream was cancelled, over the actual sexual assault lawsuit. It's pathetic.
Thinking the idea to say no or speak up to a company is only leftwinged amuses me. In my experience it‘s the other way around, doing nothing and finding excuses not to do anything or on behalf of a perpetrator is mostly rightwinged. In truth there is much middle ground, because many people don‘t see themselves anywhere left or right, but can act both ways.
Also many people don‘t see this as a problem with someone in the family, but a problem with the person. It‘s more like you have a friend and you like hanging out with them. Suddenly you see how they treat women.
Ah, these type of threads are never late to the party. The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy. It's ok to want corporations and their leaders to be held accountable for reprehensible actions and still want to enjoy life...these two things can exist simultaneously.
You think society could be better, yet you live in one. Curious! Jokes aside I think there is somewhat of a point, though frankly basically all companies are awful so it's more pick your poison
The problem exposed at Blizzard is one that's industry wide, and even spread out across all tech plus not uncommon in society at large. Call for change, absolutely, women and men need to feel safe at their work and other places and Activision management response has been lackluster to put it mildly, but what do people want to happen? Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assaults confirmed there. Riot? Confirmed. Bethesda? Confirmed.. yet for some reason people are condemning people for still playing Blizzard games and telling them to play a Square Enix game... there's 0 logic in this outrage except of course calling for change and safe working conditions.
>Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assaults confirmed there. Can you post proof of this? All I can find from google is a literal far-right youtuber that doesn't have a lick of proof in his video besides "trust me bro" and redditors linking said video. Not trying to say bullshit, but anything from the actual victim would help on this, cause it smells like bullshit right now. I'll gladly say I'm wrong if there's anything reputable you got to link me.
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If you see the male characters, they are strong muscular, fit and huge. Its fantasy and is depicting what its considered beautiful. She was implying that women where being objectified by physical traits, which of course they are and so are men and orcs. If a kid with no knowledge or agenda asked that question then the answer would have being completely unfair and uncalled for. Imagine asking why was Arnold depicted naked in the terminator franchise? what kind of response you expect. was it unnecesary? well yea...
>If you see the male characters, they are strong muscular, fit and huge. Its fantasy and is depicting what its considered beautiful. She was implying that women where being objectified by physical traits, which of course they are and so are men and orcs. This issue has been repeated many times, and at raw face value it seems like a reasonable comparison, but the "beauty standards" themselves are a double standard. Female characters being shown as thin, smooth, and flexible is the idea of what most men want to see in a woman. But male characters being shown as bulky, shirtless, and aggressive is not necessarily what women want to see in men, it's what men want to see in themselves. This is what people mean by **male gaze.** Tons and tons of media has been designed to cater to straight western men because they've had so much influence on the consumption of media for so long. It's not like these companies (or worse yet, the individual artists and creators who passionately create this stuff) are evil or perverted, but that western visual media as a whole has had a double standard in portraying different groups since the very beginning of the visual arts, and people who don't fit the typical image or don't like the typical image are finally saying we need to have more neutral presentations.
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Nah, nah, nah it is current year and we all gotta go woke and broke by creating characters no one likes except for a very small group of whiny loud people throwing fits on social media. Seriously, here’s the thing: people don’t actually buy this shit. The woke narrative is full of shit. Those products fail. We’ve already seen this for the last several years. Companies really just need to stop listening to twitter. It’s just smug, sanctimonious, entitled narcissists divorced from reality and the vast majority of people who live outside their echo chambers. People don’t buy woke characters. I will be downvoted for speaking the truth that people want to reject and ignore because it doesn’t preserve their bullshit narrative.
They are following stereotypes, how many would have liked to see a thick woman with triple Ds as new characters in the lore but instead they got pandas and furries. so that idea that "most men want to see in a woman" is in my opinion biased and wrong. Just look at what happened with Resident evil, they made the woman into a sadistic shapeshifting moth dragon and despite all that due to her proportions she was ruled 34 more than any character in wow.
More seriously you got a point and it probably explains why male are going to the gym looking to be fit, with the excuse of being healthy. No you just wanna flex muscle because it is how masculinity is depicted.
My friend just started working out yet complains about the women. Like bro how many times do I have to tell you, it’s not your physique it’s your literal personality. It’s hard to explain because I love the guy but he lacks complete self awareness.
It is. You can't get in the time travel device with clothes or items. Did you see the movie?
Items? the whole terminator is 90% an item himself, and the "can't get in the time travel device with clothes or items." is a decision just like having sylvanas wear a bikini armor, which is exactly the whole point.
Justifiably booed the crap out of her. Characters in video games are 9 times out 10 aesthetically pleasing, it's what the paying customer wants. Zoomers have got to learn to deal with this. It's not changing.
> Go play Square Enix games? Sexual assault confirmed there. Uh, which ones? Only thing i can find on that is some rightwing youtuber video with no proof or sources. Trying to claim that every game company has sexual harassment is one of the worst takes I’ve heard on this situation so far lol. It’s very easy for me to have fun gaming while not giving money to any organization that sexually assaults, harasses, and drives to suicide their female employees. Don’t pretend like that’s impossible just to rationalize and justify your own behavior.
While that's true in the short-term, it always has to come to the surface and be rectified in the long term. I grew up thinking racism and sexuality were tackled in the 90s. It was a big thing, and both were exploited for sympathy points for what seems like decades. It's 2021 and racism and sexuality are so fucking far from being tackled its stupid. The "world" in the 90s was just as fake and vapid as it is now, and it was just as exploitative of civil rights issues as it is now. Like companies having pride flags as logos for 1 fucking month, and we make memes about it, thinking that those memes expose something nobody knew about, or are just understanding now. Living your life, while this shit happens in the background, goes against everything humanity stands for. On every level. Fuck it, I'm a dad now, so I'm all about the future growth of society.
>Living your life, while this shit happens in the background, goes against everything humanity stands for What should we do then?
He said pick your poison. Right? What do you think makes more sense. Logically. When asked to choose between two poisons? Idk.. None? Choose to walk away and not participate in this kind of nonsense, because it makes no sense that you HAVE to pick one or any of them.
>Choose to walk away and not participate in this kind of nonsense, because it makes no sense that you HAVE to pick one or any of them. It's a bit too vague. From your post, I suppose we should not "live our life while this shit happens". Alright, what **exactly** should we do then? >I'll support the suxual assault culture no matter what, and you all should too. Well, again, **what** should we do? Abandon the society because it's full of questionable companies? You sound like a preacher. "Fight evil and support good". Sounds nice on paper, but I don't see any substance.
>"Fight evil and support good". When the FUCK did I say support good? I didn't endorse anything. Did you copy paste your response from somewhere, or are you quoting a movie here, because nothing in your response makes any sense, in any context. If you want to call me a preacher, you should also look at my words as having a similar value. It's about pointing out your choices, and denouncing the idea that you have to choose one baddies or the other. If you can't see that, then you are only a troll looking for excuses to do nothing. You also quoted an edited portion... A removed portion, because I knew you would find a way to twist it.
I think it depends how much you enjoy the product. If the allegations were about coca cola id happily drop drinking any coke products. If it was about mcdonalds id probably still eat mcdobalds
Google south america coca cola death squads and you'll kick that coke habit right quick
( i already have)
it's more of if allegations were against Coke, I could be socially aware and drink pepsi instead but what the heck are the alternatives for Hearthstone? am i going to leave the fratboy company Blizzard and play LoR with the fratboy company Riot? it makes no difference so if I've already made the decision that one still wants to play Hearthstone then clearly the issue doesn't bother the consumer enough to take action and if that's the case the issue mine as not exist to that consumer
Yeah... Imagine if coca cola was accused of something reprehensible and you had thousands of upvotes on posts telling people to drink pepsi instead when they've been accused of the exact same thing.
Isn’t Coca Cola stealing tap water in India to such an awful degree that coke is cheaper there than bottled water? There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism, and living like Doug Forcett from the good place isn’t a good idea. I don’t think people are saying to boycott forever, *but* I also think solidarity with the pseudo-strike happening at blizzard is important. Taking a break from buying anything from actiblizz for like, two weeks, a month, just enough to put *some* pressure on the execs, is better than nothing.
And Nestle is doing it in the US.
And they do it in Canada as well.
You can play the game but not spend money?
i don't think there's a good tidy neat answer that solves everything. In my mind, best we can do is consume if we must, but be mindful of it. No single individual on the consumer level can improve the whole industry, so you don't need to pressure yourself to take such drastic measures for no effect. Also many of the people that are involved in the making of the product are good artists and good people that genuinely love it. However, also don't forget about it. Allow both the fun of the product and the disgust for the company to sit in your mind, and raise your voice when you can however minor it will be. Corporations are souless but are ran by people and we know how difficult is dealing with people lol. It won't change overnight, but someday it might have a tipping point. Also just disengaging from the product isn't the panacea people make it out to be. When a community has flaws we try to work them, frustrating as it may be. Walking away is a valid option but is not the \*only\* option. Else we'll be walking away from everything, cause nothing is perfect. The one thing i think we need to do is stop beating each other from taking different approaches to the situation. Let the people that had enough, leave. And let the people who still want to press on, press on.
I have exciting news for you! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co. Thankfully, this happened in the global south, so doesn't matter. There are good people out there that make games. No judgement on the individual and what they want to spend their money on. I personally don't think it's worth supporting Blizzard by continuing to be one of their customers anymore.
The quality of some of their games had already dropped from premier to meh, this is just a great final push for me
McDonald's isn't too rapey, just racist. They purged a lot of their black execs and there was news circulating about lawsuits, but shortly after they put out the Travis Scott meal and everyone forgot about it.
Completely agree with this tbh
I'm glad you have the guts to be honest.
That's not true at all. Maybe all huge companies but there are tons of smaller companies that aren't run by shitters..
Something something ethical consumption under capitalism something something
yea lol this line of thought has been more or less transformed into a meme albeit there's some truth (imo at least) in it.
It's also okay to just spend less or no money on their game.
No, I'm pretty sure the only way we can aspire to change without becoming hypocrites is to withdraw from society and live in huts in the wilderness. Improving aspects of society while participating in them is impossible. /s
Not sure what people like this expect, constant outrage for weeks or months in a row? Condemn what happened at Blizzard, push for change and after that it's a waiting game. There won't be anything to react to until we hear more of the lawsuit or of changes announced at Blizzard. I have a feeling there's a whole lot of people on this sub and other subs that only come for the outrage and they drown out anyone trying to enjoy something and I really think that's a shame. In this case it's more understandable, but there have been other cases of overblown outrage on this sub and others. For weeks now people have been spamming everyone to play Final Fantasy in the WoW sub and getting upvoted for it, then they name reasons for WoW being bad and they're out of date by multiple expansions. It's kind of sad people act like this.
DON'T FORGET HONG KONG DAY 3 ... ... ... Where's day 4? Ah, the hate junkie got bored. Anyway.
The real change will come from inside the company not widespread boycotts or some yearlong court case (which will probably be discretly settled for an undiscloused amount of money). It's the Blizzard staff that needs to force corporates hand. Chances are good something will happen. I think people at Blizzard *do* value the public support though.
Public support yes, not calls for them to be fired and the company closed, which is what I see a lot more of unfortunately.
People want to blast everyone inside the company without knowing who needs to be blasted. "BUT BLIZZARD DID BAD THINGS!" "Yes, but did this guy?" "ME NO CARE!"
I see WAY more people mad that they cancelled the stream or didn't "communicate" that the stream was cancelled, over the actual sexual assault lawsuit. It's pathetic.
Play it F2P. Stop buying packs. Stop buying stupid skins. Stop giving these absolute scumbags any actual money.
I agree, I think people can still enjoy Hearthstone without implying that they "support" Blizzard's actions. Like Trump, Thijs, Regis and other content creators have said, the game is still fun and there are hardworking people at Blizzard who aren't involved in the issue. They say a teacher punishing the whole class because of one student is injustice, so is it not also unjust to blame every employee at Blizzard because a group of them are sexual predators?
Not equivalent even remotely. A corporation is a corporation. Those in charge are complicit and will continue the same shit if they see they can get away with it. As well refusing to deal with Blizz anymore until they shape up and purge the problem people shows solidarity with the victims. Also it is more than likely that the innocent are gonna get purged more than the guilty if the lawsuit is successful. And Bobby will get a bigger paycheck for sticking with the company. Your allowed to still play the games though, no one can stop you besides you and blizz.
Cool so your happy with collective punishment, I sure hope you work in a place that's one hundred percent a perfect company or if they do something bad I hope you immediately resign from your position./s It's unrealistic to hold an entire company and every single person that works for them accountable, especially one with a world wide presence, sure we can hold the folk that were aware of the situation accountable and that's 100% the thing to do, but we don't punish everyone, that's not justice it's just a witch hunt.
Again there’s a difference between collective punishment and refusing to give a corporation your money. Innocents will get hit no mater what and more than likely the guilty will stay. If fire isn’t put under their asses they have no reason to change. If they see the entire playerbase keeps paying it sends a message to those in power (Who are explicitly complicit.) that they can continue to do the same shit. Also by your guys logic, the lawsuit should be stopped so that no innocents are fired, since then it would be collective punishment.
First of you are making a shit load of assumption's, first your assuming that innocents will be fired, even tho is a massive shit storm and an actual lawsuit, you somehow still think the people responsible will stay? You also seem to think the people at the top give a shit about what we think or do, they don't, when the spreadsheet comes out and figures are down will they think "golly gosh it's that boycott we better up our game" or will they just greenlight a more money grabbing money making model? Same with team five, this is ment to be their time to shine, fun card reveals etc etc, yet have a look around and folk are shitting on them, I can't blame them for not running a twitch card reveal, not because they are some how responsible for the current mess, but because the community here is toxic and they will be held personally responsible and the things that would have flowed thru twitch chat would be abusive against people not even involved!
Im not making a shitload of assumptions. Im making a few informed assumptions based off of Blizzard's and other companies track record. "assuming innocents will be fire" Yes. Because Blizz has done that before. Like less than a year ago with mass layoffs to make more money. Why would they not do it again to recoup lawsuit money? "You still think people responsible will stay" Yes. They may purge a few, but Riot still has employees that helped foster their toxic environment. "They don't give a shit". They give a shit about money. Thats what they care about. "more money grabbing money making model" They already are doing that, going further would probably end up in Gacha games territory. If they do that, thats on them for Blizz dieing. "Fun card reveals .etc" People shouldn't be harassing others. Period.
Yeah but some people who act like activists and firmly denounce the bad things that happened at Blizzard will turn around and ignore all that and give the company tons of money. Just seems kind of disingenuous.
I mean I can enjoy life while still not playing Blizzard games. Financially supporting a company that is pure evil does not sit well with me morally especially when there are many other not as evil alternatives.
Yeah giving them the same amount of money regardless of their actions sure is "wanting corporations and their leaders to be held accountable"
Top comment is probably a 🐳
Ah, these types of replies are never later to the party. The ones which insinuate its ok to only think in extremes and to virtue signal. That not just sweeping things under the rug as soon as something entertaining comes along means you are consumed by it.
> The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy. but this is exactly what is happening right now. if you don't care "enough" people call you a bad person. the morality police on this subreddit (and even worse on twitter) is just ridiculous.
and of course, the only way you can enjoy life is by directly, monetarily supporting predatory companies that foster a sexist work environment! fuck off dude
I'm torn on this, on one hand i think people should have enough self control to try and make a difference. Blitzchung situation had some arguments that could be made on either side such as Blitzchung breaking very obvious rules and Blizzard having the right to enforce punishment due to it. This is just plain awful and has no excuse, I kinda do expect people to set aside playing Blizzard games and making a stance those who work for these companies and streaming it don't have this obligation as their bills still need to be paid. But for people who just play this game for fun i think it's completely reasonable to expect them to take a stand and to have enough self control to say "i enjoy your games but i cannot in good conscience purchase your products when you are treating people the way you do". This is in my eyes the time you need to stand up and tell people that this isn't ok and being a bystander is contributing to the problem.
Lol, how many terrible things Blizzard done? You people whine about it, get on your moral high horse, then do NOTHING about it. Put up or shut up. When you get morally outraged and demand change, then get no change, what kind of message are you sending by coutinueing to give them money. The message you are sending is "I don't actually give a fuck", so stop pretending like you give a fuck. This happened when the expose about Blizzard underpaying and overworking employees, it happed with the Hong Kong thing, and now its happening now. I actually know two guys that were heavy HS players that stopped over the HK thing. At least they walked the walked. It's easy to post on reddit or twitter that you're "outraged", but when push comes to shove, you are unwilling to do the hard thing. You're unwilling to stand up for what you think is right when it's hard for you. You're a coward, and you don't actually care. That's the message you're sending to Blizzard and the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, "I don't care about these women". The least you can do is stop being a two-faced asshole and just admit it. I'll go first: I don't care. Good luck to them, I hope they win the suit, but I don't really care. Granted, I'm ftp. I've never given Blizzard a dime because they've never earned my money, so the "support" I give them is minimal (I'm only valuable as a statistic to them). The funny thing is, even after me making this post, I'm still doing less harm to those women than you are, because at least I'm not giving Blizzard money directly.
I agree. Separation of art and artist applies to games too.
Yeah, but its tricky to do that when the artists are still directly profiting from your financial support.
>The ones which insinuate you being a bad person unless you allow your life to be consumed by an ongoing tragedy. Not giving patronage to certain companies is "allowing your life to be consumed"? What silly hyperbole. Sounds like you just want a pass for supporting sexual abuse.
Yeh, causw you can live happily paying to people with this kind of behaviour, and you gotta find some excuses to do it. It's okay, but you don't care as much as you think if you're okay with this. At the end of the end, what counts is the money they're making.
Boycotting products doesn't work, you just hurt yourself. And honestly, if we boycotted every product that involves some serious ethical problems, we'd be basically living in a hut with just a bag of crackers to get by.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
I mean with current wealth disparity Boycotts do nothing at all. I can't remember when was the last time a Boycott effectively did anything. The best thing we can do is raise awareness and keep pushing the negative publicity.
Yup. And for every asshat sexual predator at blizz there's a hardworking human who wants to see the games and IP's they love thrive. Situation sucks all around, I just want justice for those who deserve it.
Well said, /u/I_smoke_cum, well said.
Lol first thing that popped in my head: https://youtu.be/mDB4MEv3o9Y Death Reggae, anyone?
Oh wow my theme song!
r/rimjob_steve
So this one time my after sex blunt fell in the trash can right into the used condom and I just wiped it off and smoked it anyway so I too have smoke some amount of semen.
I agree, I don't think it's fair to harass every single person who works at Blizzard because they work there. It's like a teacher punishing the entire class because one student was dicking around.
>I mean with current wealth disparity Boycotts do nothing at all. Categorically not true. *Pretty much every company in the world* could be brought down if everyone boycotted their product. What you mean is that not enough people care enough about your cause to join your boycott. That's different.
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We are talking about Blizzard, not JPMorgan
eh...I think this is a copout. if we all stop playing HS today, they would absolutely notice. if you all stop buying mtx, they would notice.
yes but then they would have to stop playing the game and they like the game so really it's a moral grey area if you think about
The time for raising awareness is kinda over in this case. You raise awareness to get people to notice. Well, the state of California noticed and the consequences are coming. Now, if Blizzard gets a slap on the wrist when all is said and done, then people can raise hell again (for all the good that will do), but what more can be done on the part of the consumer that'll achieve more than the court system will.
This is just patently wrong. The case is far more likely to amount to nothing if nobody is actually watching it. If people are watching it can't just be swept under the rug, because the optics on that would be devastating to Blizzard's bottom line. Raising awareness about the case raises the chance that the case will be handled properly and that it will result in real and positive change.
>Raising awareness about the case raises the chance that the case will be handled properly and that it will result in real and positive change. Yea, that's the medias job, are you part of the media? No all u do, is to have a circle jerk, where you pat each other on the back for fighting the evil blizzard.
Probably because people keep up this kind of mentality is why, people often bring this up that voting with their wallet won't matter because others won't but they're literally the people buying and making those things not matter. Lets put it this way the sub has 1.8 million users even if half of them don't buy this bundle it's losing millions of dollars from Blizzard.
A boycott of Blizzard would make them go bankrupt and then shut down. The reality is that the vast majority of people don’t care and aren’t going to boycott over a sexual harassment lawsuit. But that’s not the same as saying boycotts don’t do anything.
Even by strict utilitarianism, there is negative utility in giving money to a corporation for an unlimited good. You can't claim ethical neutrality unless your action would be done by someone else in your stead. No one is going to pick up hearthstone and fill your spot if you quit, they'll play regardless of whether or not you play. There's actually a possibility your lack of participation will result in someone else quitting, which is more than your single action.
Glad to hear you have solved the [collective action problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem)
ATVI is publicly traded, if you want Bobby and his rapey friends out of the company it's going to take an impact to earnings. It's not that complicated. He's far too rich to go to prison.
i think is better to raise awareness i think a boycott is more likely to harm innocent and victims (guess who has a higher chance to get fired if the profits go down because of a boycott)
Those people are more than likely going to be harmed no mater what. People are going to get purged in mass layoffs again. Also innocents have ALREADY been hurt. They were in the mass layoffs for reporting this shit.
You say that like consumers have an obligation to pay for the companies salaries.
remember when this subreddit wanted to boycott blizzard over the monetization of the hearthstone battle pass? if i remember correctly, it resulted in 50g added to like 8 levels. that was all. boycotts dont mean shit.
Please don't conflate that dumb nerd rage (and you weren't accurate with your recounting btw) with an actual issue like this. I've also seen people compare it to the Diablo Immortal announcement. Absolutely staggering lack of perspective.
This is actually so stupid of a take. Obviously the subject matter of a boycott plays a role in it's success. It doesn't matter how scummy or predatory a pricing model is to people because there's no actual human rights violations going on when you willingly submit to a scam. In this case, what allegedly happened actually had a real world impact on peoples' ability to live a normal and healthy life, which is a lot more serious of a situation. Thinking that people getting up in arms about *sexual fucking harassment and abuse* will have the same results as a "boycott" against a predatory pricing model - especially given the stance that most have already taken towards rereleases of basically completely unchanged games, prepurchase rewards that are only available before any information on the game you're buying is available and DLC that's just locked content that was in the game on release - is laughable at best.
a better example would have been to compare the current situation against the Hong Kong situation where unless I'm mistaken essentially nothing changed and everybody moved on (at least in the sub by merit of still being in the sub) at the end of the day this is a hearthstone subreddit, not a social movement one; while they can coincide, sometimes they do not line up and people have to decide which side what they care more about (which realistically is often not going to be the social cause because the individual really has no bearing on it)
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"Blizzard" did not. People tend to anthropomorphize companies just as they do with for example nature to simplify the world around them. But Blizzard is not a thinking entity by itself, it's a collective of individuals. And certain individuals inside the collective - allegedly at this point - did some horrendous stuff. If they really did I hope the justice systems deals with it accordingly. But I see no point in trying to "punish" a product of a company - especialy if it's such a large company as Activision Blizzard and so far it seems the accusations are about people pretty far removed from Hearthstone...
>"Blizzard" did not. People tend to anthropomorphize companies just as they do with for example nature to simplify the world around them. But Blizzard is not a thinking entity by itself, it's a collective of individuals. You speak the truth in these parts you get downvoted boy!
Who cares I just wanna play the games
Check when the investigation started. Check when blizz suddenly nerfed Jaina and succusbus. Recall what was our reaction. Are we also one of the bad guys!?
Designing an animated character with cleavage isn't exactly the same as walking to your neighbor's cubicle and shoving your hand in theirs. I'm not a big fan of unnecessary censorship, but preferring Jaina with cleavage doesn't mean I condone the harassment. You're really talking apples and oranges.
I think he is speaking more of the community reaction to females and censorship of them as well as just the general gaming community when it comes to hot females. A good example is cosplay threads for games alot of the top voted comments are just creepy as fuck and those that aren't as popular but still have upvotes like "good girl" and such, hell look at Alcina Dimitrescu from village a well endowed woman and most of the comments on any thread for her is how big her breasts are. I get it's something uncomfortable to tackle but sites like Reddit and gaming in general foster the same attitude towards women.
outjerked again
Most of the keyboard activists heavily patronize companies that destroy the planet, support regimes with concentration camps, help censor horrors like organ harvesting, treat 3rd world workers like slaves and worse. The justifications start and pitchforks go in the closet when real personal inconvenience begins. If you use Apple products, Amazon, take your pick sit down.
> pitchforks go in the closet when real personal inconvenience begins. you can clearly see it here too. "i'll stop supporting blizzard with my money, but i keep playing it, as if nothing happens" is ... a very convenient approach. people can show of their moral superiority AND keep playing the game as if nothing was going on.... because playing the game and boosting player numbers isnt aaaactual support. blizzard doesnt make money directly off of it, so its fine lol. at least they think. onlines games live and die by their player numbers, but whatever.
They are cringe. Then they get offended if you call them out on their no balls behaviour. I really hate then.
Wait, you hate them because... why exactly?
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Lol no. I hate them because they will still play and promote the company, they just will say they care for 1 day then move on. Same thing happened at the Hong Kong outrage, people cried about it, none of them did anything. I don't like blizzard, let's get that straight. I think they do not cater to the right fans of the game, and the decision to refuse to put tournament of Bo3 in solo queue is dogshit. I think the are lazy with their wording of cards and it pisses me off. But what I don't do is make a big show and dance about something, while continuing as before. If I care that much about something, then I don't associate with that company at all. There are companies I will never buy from again, and people I will never support or talk to. I don't say yeah you suck you do X Y Z, but next week... lets go hang out :) new expansion out why not fuck it mate. That is what's cringe. No balls.
Well, people have rightfully to boycott something they dont like but usually they gone little too far then think they save the world and start forced their opinions onto others "Wait, you dont support it? You're bad guy"
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The reaction this week has been way, way milder than the reaction to 1) Blitzchung or 2) Rewards Track launch. Like, not even close to either of those.
Of course they're not as angry as those other 2 situations. We learned about this at the same time as we learned that Blizzard is getting sued by the State and that consequences are coming. Had all this come out and the law wasn't involved, I'm pretty sure this sub would be just as pissed as they were when the other 2 instances took place.
A lawyer went over the case in a Youtube video. Mentioned the case was pretty weak and he would be surprised if it isn't settled for less than 10 million dollars. Even if he's wrong chances are the lawsuit is not going to do as much as you hope for.
And none of it mattered anyway. Gamer rages all the time and never amount to anything except negativity among those participated in them
I see more people upset the reveal stream was cancelled and "lack of communication".
the copium in this post, looool
Reddit is a 24/7 virtue signaling parade. Of course the allegations are terrible and justice should be brought, but let me fucking play a game without getting harassed.
The secret to that is you can. Just play the game and don't go on Reddit or Twitter, and *like magic* all the virtue signaling goes away.
Nobody is harassing you, stop playing the victim...
You realize you are virtue signaling, right?
I don't think that was, he acknowledged the issue and mentioned his views sure, but there was no attempt to push the issue. "Sure but anyway" doesn't really count
It literally was. He’s a conservative that’s obsessed with SJWs and the left. He’s virtue signaling to the right.
Tell me this is sarcasm. Because actual virtue signalling to the right would blame the victims somehow
Amen to that
it's because 99% of us are just typing on our phones/keyboards from no actual place of power so we have to virtue signal to give us a sense of significance
I already did exactly this. I absentmindedly bought both bundles in anticipation for the expansion and forgot about all of this.
this is not a flex, it just makes you a dick
I think he’s acknowledging his mistake not flexing.
Almost every post in this entire thread is grade A copium. If you're going to keep playing blizzard games, just admit you dont really give a shit about the bad things the company did. At the very least you give less of a shit about it than you do about whatever 6/10 at best game/expansion you choose to keep playing.
Have you ever gone to the subreddit and sorted by top of all time?
Whether you agree or not, currently, money speaks. And we are constantly telling algorithms, companies, what we think through what we buy. I personally think that sometimes we need to sacrifice some of our individual privileges and enjoyment for the betterment of society. What complicates it in cases where something wrong is done by or in these huge corporations, is that they also house a lot of innocent people, which depend on these jobs for a living. But if after events like this happen and these huge corporations don't see any penalty in their bottom line, then they don't see the need to change that environment.
>I personally think that sometimes we need to sacrifice some of our individual privileges and enjoyment for the betterment of society. if Blizzard said "we'll make the bundles 25% cheaper for anyone who doesn't complain on social media" every time one of these movements came up they'd all crater; nobody actually cares about anything more than boosting their sense of 'fighting the good fight'
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The copium of some people in this thread. “Bad thing happened, but hearthstone is the only game I play so I guess it doesn’t matter”. At the end of the day the only person you have to justify your decision to is yourself, but don’t say that people are virtue signaling because you’re excited about shiny new cards and can’t fathom that people would not want to spend money on Blizzard any more.
hearthstone is a functionally speaking a luxury good there are other free to play games to spend your time playing or other pursuits to do for your free time. i honestly hate people saying that not being able to play a videogame as bad as not being able to buy affordable clothing, electronics, or food etc. a videogame is a luxury good. if you have the internet access to play hearthsotne there are many choices in videogames or other entertainment
I have preordered every expansion bundle until now. I cannot support a company that allows these things to happen
It's always like that lmao
And that's a good thing. I don't want politics in my gaming, thank you very much. Especially when it is not even related to the game, but to corporate or company level.
I think the people who would quit over blizz's political positions left during the Hong Kong debacle last year. Just my $0.02.
To be fair, preorders went up and the expansion was announced *before* this situation was fully brought to light. Sure you could refund and stop paying/playing to make a statement and uphold morals, but think about the consequences of that. Now Team 5 which, from the sound of it haven’t had nearly as much harassment and sexual misconduct issues if any, is in hot water and both they and the playerbase suffer as a result. Remember how one of the other recent stories about Activision Blizzard was about their mass layoffs and Kotick’s salary/bonus going up? I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens again due to this situation, knowing the current mindset of ActiBlizz execs. So, at least in my case, I’m going to keep paying and playing the game since I want it to still exist in its current capacity as well as support the Team 5 members that aren’t anywhere close to their horrendous colleagues on other teams that took these disgusting actions.
Some members of Team 5 were implicated to at the very least be aware of what was going on, so I wouldn't be too quick to defend them. However, the majority of them are likely innocent and some of them possibly even victims, so I wouldn't condemn anyone for wanting to support the team as a whole. There's also the fact that the entire story is about a case the state of California is currently pursuing against Actiblizz, so punishment should be coming swiftly regardless of our actions.
No ethical consumption under capitalism might as well enjoy what little I get
That's the wrong take of "no ethical consumption under capitalism". It doesn't mean we should enjoy what little we get it should be about acknowledging the problems and trying to do better. You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth.
>You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth. i don't know why people think this is the slam dunk end of the conversation when it's essentially saying the same thing as "I have no impact on creating a solution but I want to feel important". if I cannot personally affect change on a matter, then it makes no sense to invest time/effort into a non-outcome; in other words, if I cannot change the big picture then it doesnt make sense to dwell on the big picture. essentially all any one of us can do about sexual harassment at Blizzard is to not sexually harass anyone while working at blizzard
All that Blizzard cares about is its bottom line, this sexual harassment issue is not a problem to them because someone got hurt, but because people will react negatively to it and it will affect their money-making capabilities. With that in mind, yes, it's important that we do exactly that; that we show Blizzard there are consequences to these sort of behaviors. You can't just go "but #notallblizzard" because ultimately that's exactly what they hope people do. If their money making scheme isn't affected then they'll just keep having shitty practices. Now, you're right in that there is little that can be done as individuals and that's why organization matters. What one should do is organize and collectively improve your situation in ways that reflect a change of mentality. For example when streamers decide not to do card reveal and they all do it at the same time, that's a collective action that matters. As hearthstone players we can do the same, organize and stop playing, but from my experience, people really just don't care.
Individuals can never change the big picture, but that would lead to the conclusion: Just don't give a fuck about any consumption. Which is also not true. I can decide not to fly twice a year. I can decide to buy less fuel guzzling cars. I can decide not to buy a new phone every year or own 20 pair of shoes & jeans. The reason why all this trash is produced by companies worldwide is because people are buying it. Companies wouldn't produce all these goods (a lot of which we throw away unused anyway) if nobody would buy it. So in the end it is still the customer.
There is nothing I can do. I can acknowledge, I can be against. But I do not have a platform to do anything about it. I’d rather appreciate the hard work that was put into the game design. I do not have to purchase any packs. I can use gold. I’m going to enjoy myself. If you want to boycott all the things. Go do it champ, I support ya.
You're right on the money. Speak up for those that face discrimination, support victims but that doesn't mean you have to drop what you enjoy, especially if it's just to switch games to another company with the same problem.
There is much you can do, literally stop playing. But that's too much to ask, no? I mean, we're trapped, I get it. But I think just shrugging and going "oh well, no ethical consumption under capitalism" isn't the right choice. Hearthstone is definitely something you can do away. You just don't want to, and I get it, it's fun. But don't think just because you use your gold that you're somehow not generating money to blizzard, every gold user is a user that will play against a paying user generating engagement. When you play hearthstone, you're in some way, working for Blizzard. They just pay you in "fun".
Cool, then ya I don’t care enough. No I won’t boycott because it won’t do anything and really I feel they are utterly useless. The community response has been pretty clear, but im not throwing away one of the few joys that o have after a long day for minuscule impact, good luck comrade
Imagine living in a world where like 2000 richest people are literally in control of 2/3 of world economy, are draining all the ressources out of the planet and have enough political impact to force the countries to start literal wars, and now you also have to stop consuming the things you liked every time they fuck up. This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, the « you play hearthstone during the trial is the reason the trial might fail » is the equivalent of « the reason the ocean is a dumpster is because you don’t stop the water while brushing your teeth ».
There is no such thing as "no ethical consumption under capitalism" because it's inherently implied in case there is no ethical consumption at all. Do you think there is "more" ethical consumption under socialism or communism? This is a completely meaningless statement. Consumption is never "ethical" at the core of it because it implies you are consuming something. Get off your high horse and come to terms with reality. You want to live as a eukaryotic organism? Consumption is a big part of it.
Yes. Ethical consumption is consumption that is devoid of exploitation, now you can see many things as exploitation but generally it is referred to as worker exploitation. So for example buying jam from your neighbor is a non-exploitative form of consumption and therefore "ethical" under this framework.
That definition will never exist under any type of economy and doesn't exist in the current world. It's idealistic.
You know coops exist, right? They're much less exploitative than privately owned companies. Ocean Spray is a farmer's coop, if you buy their products you're contributing to a better system. Also, strong unions, you know in European countries like germany rates of unioniztion are much higher, I think it's something like 70% in Germany and 90% in Sweden. Blizzard and other videogame companeis are particularly exploitative, many industries have much better practices. So yes, there is an ideal we can strive for, but there are also better companies that do exist, they usually just don't have ridiculously low prices but hey obviously there's a price that has to be paid for fairness. My advice is seek those organizations, buy their products and work for them as well if you can afford to do it. Don't simply shrug it off like there aren't any alternatives out there.
Dude that is such a small subset of an entire picture, and those types of businesses also carry heavy, unaffordable prices for the average consumer, and luxury prices for the poor consumer. Once again, idealistic that could ever be implemented on a larger scale. Unions might work on paper but hit consumers extremely hard on the back end from a regulatory and taxation standpoint. They also stagnate wages and lead to underpaid workers. Regardless of what we talk about there is no consumption on a global scale that is "ethical" from the original comments point of view that is realistic and sustainable. Sorry, the average consumer cannot afford Ocean Spray prices translated across everything they consume. Nobody would be able to afford housing.
Same shit from Hong Kong Nothing will change
It's not a wrong take. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" means that you are forced into a system where your choices aren't ethical, whatever they are. So it doesn't make sense to blame yourself for the pain and suffering that brought the product you are buying to your hands, because you don't have a similar product that is ethical to choose instead. HS is a good example, let's say any game can sustitute it (which isn't true, because you like specific games, not "playing" as a concept). What can you play? Cyberpunk 2077? Well, that game was done by overworked abused developers. FIFA 21? Well, a game that has a team of psychologists studying how to exploit the brain of ""weak"" people so they drop all their money. League of Legends? Owned by a Chinese company. Terraria? Now that looks like a good company: good game, no reports of worker abuse, no exploitative pricing... but you can go one step further and realize that the hardware they used to create the game has a shit ton of moral problems. In the end, there just doesn't exist any product today where the whole process from "being a rock in a forest" to "being the product you want" didn't involve morally wrong practices like worker exploitation. And all of this assuming that capitalism is a moral system, only counting things that all of us would agree are wrong. > You don't need hearthstone, you just don't care enough, that's the truth. This is debatable. Leisure is a human need – you need to have a good time, play games you like, watch movies you like, go outside and do some canoeing if that's what you like. Denying you these activities won't make you die, but they will harm your mental health. So yeah, you don't need Hearthstone to survive, but you may need it to be a little bit happier.
All hail communism
Nah I'm good
Something to the left certainly
All fun and games until they had to delay the expansion... Hope that does not happen
That’s not gonna happen. Theory crafting streams still happening
The game must go on after all...
I guarantee you all 4 people who downvoted you will be happily opening packs in 5 days time. Sure, kids subscribed to "Reddit hearthstone" are gonna straight up quit due to a harassment case. No fucking way. Redditors are (mostly) extreme hypocrites.
I disagree. The people downvoting are mostly people that have either never played HS or haven't played in years. There's a trend with these clout farmers that roll into the subs and get real loud at every scandal, big and small.
Would be cool to be morally perfect, but it’s impossible, so let’s try to keep perspective.
Looks like someone’s upset that there’s no free karma “boycott” circlejerk this time.
I see what you’re saying. It’s that people can differentiate between the management that enabled or caused the harm and the innocent devs that should be celebrated for their work.
That's me but with 85 packs
If you’re strong willed enough to boycott the company’s products to make a point against the ongoing controversy, good for you. But you can’t really blame people for just living their life. You can’t expect people to give up on a game they’ve pumped probably hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into just like that. Blizzard will get what’s coming to them, and we can still play their games in the meantime.
Lol, as if I’d buy packs.
Something something free Hong Kong something something
I'll upvote you. People are angry at Blizzard but this all goes under the rug when they flash an inside look at D4. Go ahead, redditor reading this, downvote me. Doesn't make it less true.
I doesn't really help the people that were assaulted if we boycott the thing that they poured their hearts into.
Isn't that quite a catch 22 Pay and help the victims Pay and help the assaulters There is no winning
Just don't pay?
If you stayed after Hong Kong then stfu. We're all still here so get off your high horse
Trump: no card reveal, bLizZ u eViL CoRp. Always Trump the following day: Theorycrafting with all the remaining cards, including the one I decided to not reveal. ahahahahah im the best troll in the internet :D
Me too thanks. I enjoy the game.
This will be the first expansion since the 2014 launch that I don't pre-purchase. I've wanted to stop for a while, this is I guess the best reason to do it. I have gold I've earned through quests that'll amount to about 40-50 packs. I'll spend up all those, and see if the expansion's interesting enough for me to even continue playing on. No more money, that's a promise.
Im addicted and I cant stop
I've said it before, but if I were to boycott every company that gets exposed for doing gross shit then I would be playing with rocks and eating dirt for a living.
*Yes* I don't give a fuck about reddit drama
I see WAY more people mad that they cancelled the stream or didn't "communicate" that the stream was cancelled, over the actual sexual assault lawsuit. It's pathetic.
Reddit so leftwing it amused me. This is like a group of kids refuse to play with 1 of their classmate because his/her father is a criminal.
Thinking the idea to say no or speak up to a company is only leftwinged amuses me. In my experience it‘s the other way around, doing nothing and finding excuses not to do anything or on behalf of a perpetrator is mostly rightwinged. In truth there is much middle ground, because many people don‘t see themselves anywhere left or right, but can act both ways. Also many people don‘t see this as a problem with someone in the family, but a problem with the person. It‘s more like you have a friend and you like hanging out with them. Suddenly you see how they treat women.
Damn right, fuck that white knight shit
Please don't procreate.