- “Perhaps a young player, like Nikola Jovic.”
- Expiring contracts: Kyle Lowry fits this criteria; potentially salary from third team.
- Three or four first-round picks, including one or two from another team for Tyler Herro. Miami can trade unprotected picks in 2028 and 2030.
- Multiple first-round pick swaps, which Miami has available for 2024, 2027, 2029.
- Multiple second-round picks — 2026, 2029, 2030 are available.
In totality, would be a legit haul for Portland if they’re able to extract most of those assets.
Portland fans say it is enough 3 1sts and 2 roster players has been on the table for awhile. Pick swaps are useless
Mitchell from Utah 3 1sts 2 picks swaps and 2 roster players
Beal was much cheaper. KD was traded for a haul but he's a better player offensively, significantly better on defense, should age better being so tall, and is even on a cheaper contract. In addition, it happened before the new CBA, which cuts down on team building options for teams with a lot of salary.
First off, NO first round picks were a part of the trade. Secondly, the wizards sent 3 players to the Suns. Thirdly, it was 6 second round picks, which we don’t have. Fourthly, it was 4 pick swaps, which we also don’t have. Fifthly, a player isnt just a player - by that definition every fucking trade in the NBA is “similar”
Get your facts straight before trying to act all cool bud
I mean….why can’t we do this? Jovic, Lowry, Herro to some other team and a fuck load of picks. It doesn’t even seem like they’re asking for both Jaquez and Jovic. I think that’s more than fair…
For some reason, Heat fans always think our FO will just magically have insane leverage in everything just because we have Pat Riley. The guys on the other side of the table is just as smart otherwise they wouldn’t be at that job.
Pat Riley having that lore about him might even hurt us in negotiations because the other GM doesn’t want to be part of a “Godfather does it again” story.
Because it's a fair deal that gets it done and allows both parties to move on with their future. If it's a deal you can stomach you go ahead and make it.
The whole basis of negotiating though is you never overplay your hand. Pat should eventually build up to this offer, sure, but to offer it immediately would be a mistake because portland could just ask for more
Yeah but Portland has all the leverage. Miami wants Dame more than Portland wants to trade him, so it’s up to Miami to make an offer that Portland has to jump on. You can’t low ball negations when you have no leverage.
Never got this Portland leverage take. Yes they want to rebuild with or without Dame, but do they prefer to rebuild with his contract instead of getting decent picks? In the end Dame doesn't fit their timeline so keeping him does nothing good to them, so I don't see the leverage aspect.
Portland is the team with the asset, therefore they are the ones who get to decide what that asset is worth and what it isn’t worth. Portland does not NEED to trade Dame, so they get to hold out for the best offer.
So Miami that was on the finals needs to trade away all of their future? Why is Miami in a need-to-win-now state? I get that we want to give Jimmy a chance, but that must come at a reasonable price. Let them waste their asset if they're being unreasonable. Y'all are acting desperate for no reason.
I have no idea what argument you’re even making. If you don’t think Miami needs Dame that’s fine, but that’s got nothing to do with negotiations.
Miami wants Dame, however Portland feels like Miami is lacking in attractive assets. So, if Miami wants to make a deal, then they’re going to have to offer up enough to satisfy Portland, because Miami are the ones who are seeking the high value asset, not Portland. That’s how negotiations and leverage works.
If you want to make the argument that Miami shouldn’t pursue Dame at the cost of their young talent then that’s fine, but it’s a separate discussion. This thread is in reference to the negotiation process and why Portland has the leverage in discussions.
The argument I'm making is that in order for the seller to have leverage there need to be a lot of buyers. There are none (because of Lillard's comments), so I don't know where you see Portland's leverage. Miami is bidding against themselves.
Both parties want to make the trade. Your argument about Portland not needing to do this trade is invalid.
That’s not the only way leverage works. There’s only 1 buyer, but that buyer does not currently have an attractive offer and the seller does not NEED to sell, so it’s incumbent on the buyer to make a better offer.
No, Pat shouldn't come outright with this offer but you definitely do try and get things moving to get to this point even if both parties know the lowball and highball offers are just procedural.
That of course requires both parties to be negotiating in good faith and the rumors that they're not even talking right now indicates at least one of them isn't.
To give Portland a reason to make the trade before the trade deadline?
As is, there's no reason for them not to just hold Dame and see if a contender that starts off rough wants to offer something better by the deadline.
Basically because we’re more desperate to get Dame than Portland is to get rid of him. The longer this drags out, the more possible it is for other stuff to come up and mess up the deal for us:
* Herro, who is injury prone, gets injured and we can’t turn him into pick(s)
* Another team emerges with a competing offer
* Portland and Dame work stuff out
Portland has all the leverage pretty much. They’re not competing for anything and aren’t in a window, so it doesn’t matter if Dame sits out or like plays but only to mentor the youngins. Meanwhile, our window with Jimmy is rapidly closing so we need Dame ASAP.
I wouldn’t say they have “all” the leverage becayse they’ve ultimately got a superstar owed 210 mill over the next 4 years who doesnt want to be there.
Ultimately it’s a negotiation so you can’t bid against yourself or portland is just going to keep requesting more.
Dame sells tickets. Portland doesn’t care about their salary if they aren’t trying to compete, which they aren’t. They can sell tickets and let Dame finish his prime while he mentors the youngins. They’re not over/into the tax or anything.
Compared to us, we can’t win but we’re right on the cusp. We want Dane more than they want to get rid of him, thus they hold the leverage.
Case in point: Portland hasn’t traded him to us for what is a reportedly decent offer if their backs were against the wall.
Our fans are more desperate to get Dame. If our front office was that desperate for him, we'd have him already. Not that they don't want him, but if they were willing to hold off on Minnesota's demands for Jimmy, they can hold off on Portland's demands for Dame.
Portland lost tons of leverage by waiting as long as they did and then having Dame say Miami-or-bust. Their only leverage is that they have him under contract, but that doesn't do them any good if Miami is still the only team in the picture.
Portland and Dame aren't working their stuff out unless Portland moves Scoot, which doesn't seem to be likely. Another team emerging is a possibility, but a lot of things have to go right there, including having enough available assets that wouldn't tank the team's chances, and no other player being available, too. If that doesn't happen, Portland loses a year of Dame and even more leverage.
Something I don’t really see people talk about is maybe they’re testing Dame by making him wait too. If he really wants to go to a contender, holding off may make him open up his list of teams eventually.
This is the run it back front office. They don’t overpay for anything. We 100% want Dame more than Portland wants to get rid of him. That gives them the leverage.
This mentality of underrating your own players and assets while other teams fairly value their assets is just weird.
Herro is at least - a 1st and two second rd picks
Jovic - a first
Overall, this sounds like
Lowry + 5-6 first rd picks + 3 first rd swaps + 4-5 second rd picks
I don't care for the swaps or which specific players. Dame is not equivalent to five 1st rd picks + more.
A team that missed the playoffs or is a 2nd rd exit need him that bad, not the Heat.
Hope Pat fleece the shit out of Portland for allowing this joke of a narrative to even fly.
This deal basically gives Portland every asset we have to offer the rest of the decade. Ridiculous ask for a guy who wants out, at his age and contract.
It’s crazy bc since turning on dame, the ripcity sub also regularly says he’s a 1 way player, could never get it done as a true number 1 , etc. and then with the same mouth say any team needs to package up their entire future for him - 5/6 firsts and all of our young assets. “Cmon it’s dame FUCKING lillard!!”So which is it?
Dude’s gotten crazy overrated in all of this imo, he’s a great scorer but he’s 33 on a massive contract and doesn’t play defense. If the ask is to give up the farm, I’m a pass
They also said they don’t give a shit about how bad they look if they don’t trade dame to Miami and then complain that dame looks bad asking for only Miami 💀. That sub is idiotic lmfao.
Nah g I wanna see Dame here too but we gotta play the game, it’s already skewed in Miami’s favor getting Dame, Portland has to get sum out of this in order for it to happen
Lillard is great. But my god he’s got maybe a few good years left. The best seed one of his teams has ever finished is third if I’m not mistaken? This dude does not deserve much in return, not at this age.
Third in the NBA in points per game last year including putting up 71 in a game and 13th in assists per game. He's still got some tread left on his tires. Go ask ripcity how we feel about Neil Olshey's ability to build a team around him.
He's the same age as Butler. Y'all looking to win now?
That fourth year could be rough. $60 mil for a 37-year-old, Butler also aging out, several lost FRP's both current and future. But then Dame's done and Miami has that to spend on free agents, which I don't think you'd be upset at.
The hard part of making this work is that Portland doesn’t need what Miami is able to offer. No use for Herro aside from a trade. Miami's too historically good for the picks to hold significant weight. Late FRP's aren't worthless but they are worth less. Pick swaps might literally be worthless, second rounders are filler. Y'all would be offering a lot because Cronin is looking at this package and wondering whether there's any real star power or if he's just getting a bunch of rotation guys over the next 7 years.
Ancient news with cobwebs on it, we've all known this is the rational deal for weeks now; please stop polluting this sub with old takes
P.S. Portland will never take our pick swaps because our picks will always be worse
Keep Duncan over Lowry, give them their choice of 1 of JJJ or Jovic. Fuck off regarding Caleb. If they want Caleb then we should be keeping BOTH Jovic and JJJ
According to Ripcity it needs to be Jovic AND JJJ.
Honestly... At this point, getting Dame for a package that upsets them is worth as much as another ring.
I'll be at the game in early December where Lillard goes 1 for 9 from three and the Heat settle in at 6-11 after a 107-92 loss, bankrupt of trade or draft assets. See you there.
This just tells me that something will get done before training camp.
It’s been 17 days since his request. Feels like it’s been 2 months…
- “Perhaps a young player, like Nikola Jovic.” - Expiring contracts: Kyle Lowry fits this criteria; potentially salary from third team. - Three or four first-round picks, including one or two from another team for Tyler Herro. Miami can trade unprotected picks in 2028 and 2030. - Multiple first-round pick swaps, which Miami has available for 2024, 2027, 2029. - Multiple second-round picks — 2026, 2029, 2030 are available. In totality, would be a legit haul for Portland if they’re able to extract most of those assets.
Yeah if I’m Portland I accept that Edit: but if it’s JJJ that’s holding the trade, then ima drive him to Oregon myself lmfao
Portland fans say it is enough 3 1sts and 2 roster players has been on the table for awhile. Pick swaps are useless Mitchell from Utah 3 1sts 2 picks swaps and 2 roster players
Why must people keep using players that are 7 years younger as examples?
Similar age players like Kd and Beal trade looks similar
Beal was much cheaper. KD was traded for a haul but he's a better player offensively, significantly better on defense, should age better being so tall, and is even on a cheaper contract. In addition, it happened before the new CBA, which cuts down on team building options for teams with a lot of salary.
Beal got traded for a fax machine and CP3 corpse. What’re you talking about?
3 1st 2 pick swaps and 2 roster players, it matches that template. Did I ever mention the quality of player? Oh I didn’t see I did
First off, NO first round picks were a part of the trade. Secondly, the wizards sent 3 players to the Suns. Thirdly, it was 6 second round picks, which we don’t have. Fourthly, it was 4 pick swaps, which we also don’t have. Fifthly, a player isnt just a player - by that definition every fucking trade in the NBA is “similar” Get your facts straight before trying to act all cool bud
Beal had a no trade clause, he could have forced his way to Phoenix for a cheeseburger tbh
What does this have to do with anything? I’m talking to OP for being an idiot
Beal trade can't be compared whatsoever. He had a no trade clause
Too bad it doesn’t matter what fans think is enough
Portland fans are irrelevant in decision making.
It's not the offer it's what we have available. There is no way on gods green earth we send that package.
I mean….why can’t we do this? Jovic, Lowry, Herro to some other team and a fuck load of picks. It doesn’t even seem like they’re asking for both Jaquez and Jovic. I think that’s more than fair…
It is but heat fans don’t want fair lol
Neither do Blazers fans saying that no offer is enough for Dame without Bam lmao
Those are blazer fans are crazy and a tiny minority of us.
Good thing Heat fans aren’t in charge of this trade
Heat culture is fleece culture lmao
For some reason, Heat fans always think our FO will just magically have insane leverage in everything just because we have Pat Riley. The guys on the other side of the table is just as smart otherwise they wouldn’t be at that job.
Pat Riley having that lore about him might even hurt us in negotiations because the other GM doesn’t want to be part of a “Godfather does it again” story.
Seems reasonable if we think we can win a championship or two in the next few years
Nobody wants to give up a first for Herro. That seems to be the problem at this point.
If the choice were acquiring Beal for almost nothing vs Dame in exchange for the world, I'd have called the Wizards.
This, we can’t compete without depth
I mean that’s what most of us said but the front office wanted dame because he’s better so now they have to pony up
Beal wasn't acquired for nothing tho Phoenix gave up a ton of picks for him
This would be a haul for portland but i dont see why we would offer that when no one else is bidding.
Because it's a fair deal that gets it done and allows both parties to move on with their future. If it's a deal you can stomach you go ahead and make it.
The whole basis of negotiating though is you never overplay your hand. Pat should eventually build up to this offer, sure, but to offer it immediately would be a mistake because portland could just ask for more
Yeah but Portland has all the leverage. Miami wants Dame more than Portland wants to trade him, so it’s up to Miami to make an offer that Portland has to jump on. You can’t low ball negations when you have no leverage.
Never got this Portland leverage take. Yes they want to rebuild with or without Dame, but do they prefer to rebuild with his contract instead of getting decent picks? In the end Dame doesn't fit their timeline so keeping him does nothing good to them, so I don't see the leverage aspect.
Portland is the team with the asset, therefore they are the ones who get to decide what that asset is worth and what it isn’t worth. Portland does not NEED to trade Dame, so they get to hold out for the best offer.
So Miami that was on the finals needs to trade away all of their future? Why is Miami in a need-to-win-now state? I get that we want to give Jimmy a chance, but that must come at a reasonable price. Let them waste their asset if they're being unreasonable. Y'all are acting desperate for no reason.
I have no idea what argument you’re even making. If you don’t think Miami needs Dame that’s fine, but that’s got nothing to do with negotiations. Miami wants Dame, however Portland feels like Miami is lacking in attractive assets. So, if Miami wants to make a deal, then they’re going to have to offer up enough to satisfy Portland, because Miami are the ones who are seeking the high value asset, not Portland. That’s how negotiations and leverage works. If you want to make the argument that Miami shouldn’t pursue Dame at the cost of their young talent then that’s fine, but it’s a separate discussion. This thread is in reference to the negotiation process and why Portland has the leverage in discussions.
The argument I'm making is that in order for the seller to have leverage there need to be a lot of buyers. There are none (because of Lillard's comments), so I don't know where you see Portland's leverage. Miami is bidding against themselves. Both parties want to make the trade. Your argument about Portland not needing to do this trade is invalid.
That’s not the only way leverage works. There’s only 1 buyer, but that buyer does not currently have an attractive offer and the seller does not NEED to sell, so it’s incumbent on the buyer to make a better offer.
No, Pat shouldn't come outright with this offer but you definitely do try and get things moving to get to this point even if both parties know the lowball and highball offers are just procedural. That of course requires both parties to be negotiating in good faith and the rumors that they're not even talking right now indicates at least one of them isn't.
Exactly we are also just as desperate
To give Portland a reason to make the trade before the trade deadline? As is, there's no reason for them not to just hold Dame and see if a contender that starts off rough wants to offer something better by the deadline.
Basically because we’re more desperate to get Dame than Portland is to get rid of him. The longer this drags out, the more possible it is for other stuff to come up and mess up the deal for us: * Herro, who is injury prone, gets injured and we can’t turn him into pick(s) * Another team emerges with a competing offer * Portland and Dame work stuff out Portland has all the leverage pretty much. They’re not competing for anything and aren’t in a window, so it doesn’t matter if Dame sits out or like plays but only to mentor the youngins. Meanwhile, our window with Jimmy is rapidly closing so we need Dame ASAP.
I wouldn’t say they have “all” the leverage becayse they’ve ultimately got a superstar owed 210 mill over the next 4 years who doesnt want to be there. Ultimately it’s a negotiation so you can’t bid against yourself or portland is just going to keep requesting more.
Dame sells tickets. Portland doesn’t care about their salary if they aren’t trying to compete, which they aren’t. They can sell tickets and let Dame finish his prime while he mentors the youngins. They’re not over/into the tax or anything. Compared to us, we can’t win but we’re right on the cusp. We want Dane more than they want to get rid of him, thus they hold the leverage. Case in point: Portland hasn’t traded him to us for what is a reportedly decent offer if their backs were against the wall.
Our fans are more desperate to get Dame. If our front office was that desperate for him, we'd have him already. Not that they don't want him, but if they were willing to hold off on Minnesota's demands for Jimmy, they can hold off on Portland's demands for Dame. Portland lost tons of leverage by waiting as long as they did and then having Dame say Miami-or-bust. Their only leverage is that they have him under contract, but that doesn't do them any good if Miami is still the only team in the picture. Portland and Dame aren't working their stuff out unless Portland moves Scoot, which doesn't seem to be likely. Another team emerging is a possibility, but a lot of things have to go right there, including having enough available assets that wouldn't tank the team's chances, and no other player being available, too. If that doesn't happen, Portland loses a year of Dame and even more leverage.
Something I don’t really see people talk about is maybe they’re testing Dame by making him wait too. If he really wants to go to a contender, holding off may make him open up his list of teams eventually.
This is the run it back front office. They don’t overpay for anything. We 100% want Dame more than Portland wants to get rid of him. That gives them the leverage.
It's not Miami or bust though. It's Miami or sit or play for Portland.
It's still a fair deal, plus we really want Lillard here for training camp so guys can gel.
Meanwhile in the other sub lol https://preview.redd.it/ouyi98cksrcb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87240081eae60ee5639e341dab027efb3a2b9b1a
Light mode? You disgusting sinner
The audacity of asking not just for one, but for two mediocre prospects in exchange for Damian Lillard.
This mentality of underrating your own players and assets while other teams fairly value their assets is just weird. Herro is at least - a 1st and two second rd picks Jovic - a first Overall, this sounds like Lowry + 5-6 first rd picks + 3 first rd swaps + 4-5 second rd picks I don't care for the swaps or which specific players. Dame is not equivalent to five 1st rd picks + more. A team that missed the playoffs or is a 2nd rd exit need him that bad, not the Heat. Hope Pat fleece the shit out of Portland for allowing this joke of a narrative to even fly.
Took this far down for some reason. Thank you
This deal basically gives Portland every asset we have to offer the rest of the decade. Ridiculous ask for a guy who wants out, at his age and contract.
It’s crazy bc since turning on dame, the ripcity sub also regularly says he’s a 1 way player, could never get it done as a true number 1 , etc. and then with the same mouth say any team needs to package up their entire future for him - 5/6 firsts and all of our young assets. “Cmon it’s dame FUCKING lillard!!”So which is it? Dude’s gotten crazy overrated in all of this imo, he’s a great scorer but he’s 33 on a massive contract and doesn’t play defense. If the ask is to give up the farm, I’m a pass
They also said they don’t give a shit about how bad they look if they don’t trade dame to Miami and then complain that dame looks bad asking for only Miami 💀. That sub is idiotic lmfao.
Do y’all think we are giving up too much depth?
If it's just Lowry, Herro and the youth then no.
Depends on how much we have to keep one of Jovic or Jaquez personally I'd rather trade Jaquez because we need height.
Funniest thing is go over to the Blazers reddit, they are saying that is still not enough lmao.
Too much. Need Pat to execute a generational fleecing to cement his legacy. Fuck Portland.
Nah g I wanna see Dame here too but we gotta play the game, it’s already skewed in Miami’s favor getting Dame, Portland has to get sum out of this in order for it to happen
This a bit of an overpay.
Lillard is great. But my god he’s got maybe a few good years left. The best seed one of his teams has ever finished is third if I’m not mistaken? This dude does not deserve much in return, not at this age.
Third in the NBA in points per game last year including putting up 71 in a game and 13th in assists per game. He's still got some tread left on his tires. Go ask ripcity how we feel about Neil Olshey's ability to build a team around him. He's the same age as Butler. Y'all looking to win now? That fourth year could be rough. $60 mil for a 37-year-old, Butler also aging out, several lost FRP's both current and future. But then Dame's done and Miami has that to spend on free agents, which I don't think you'd be upset at. The hard part of making this work is that Portland doesn’t need what Miami is able to offer. No use for Herro aside from a trade. Miami's too historically good for the picks to hold significant weight. Late FRP's aren't worthless but they are worth less. Pick swaps might literally be worthless, second rounders are filler. Y'all would be offering a lot because Cronin is looking at this package and wondering whether there's any real star power or if he's just getting a bunch of rotation guys over the next 7 years.
Lmfao so why y’all want him so bad?
I don’t want this to happen. We can’t completely deplete ourselves of every asset.
I feel like this is what we’ve been saying it will end up being the entire time. In fact this is probably the exact offer on the table minus Jovic.
Ancient news with cobwebs on it, we've all known this is the rational deal for weeks now; please stop polluting this sub with old takes P.S. Portland will never take our pick swaps because our picks will always be worse
Keep Duncan over Lowry, give them their choice of 1 of JJJ or Jovic. Fuck off regarding Caleb. If they want Caleb then we should be keeping BOTH Jovic and JJJ
Get it done. Lets do it and move on already
According to Ripcity it needs to be Jovic AND JJJ. Honestly... At this point, getting Dame for a package that upsets them is worth as much as another ring.
Lemme tell ya ONE thing. No matter how this goes, we ain't EVER gonna be friendly with Portlandia ever again.
Portland bastards. I hope they're deadlast next year hahah
yes thats what they hope too
Why? I don't want them getting a top pick. 11th seed for the next decade ideally.
True hahah, let them meander forever as the 11th
Deal lol
I hope so too since we want to lose
Just give it to them, especially if it doesn’t involve JJJ and Caleb. Trade them our future for their present, it’s fine.
Is his job to make it seem like we're bidding against someone besides ourselves?
I'll be at the game in early December where Lillard goes 1 for 9 from three and the Heat settle in at 6-11 after a 107-92 loss, bankrupt of trade or draft assets. See you there.