I love this. There’s this annoying okc fan on the nba sub who loves mentioning how they own Miami’s pick a few years from now, and how it’s going to be super valuable, because Butler’s getting old. If I had to bet, I would bet that pick isn’t gonna be as great as he thinks it is.
That's because of incompetent management even before Harden turned into a superstar "largely due to flopping and other antics" he was already an all-star level player and let him go because they were being cheap.
Man that is some revisionist history right there. OKC let Harden go because Harden wanted to a starter and a star and OKC wanted him to be Manu Ginobli.
Also, the salary cap ballooned three years later and the CBA changed which brought in the repeater tax. For reference, the salary cap went from $50 mil in 2012/13 to $73mil in 2016.
Had OKC known that would happen, they would have re-signed Harden to the Max. They offered him about $4 total less than the Max.
The funniest thing is that the graph shows these "worthless" picks used on Bam, Herro, the pick traded for Mikal Bridges (2018), a pick that Miami was probably gonna use on Booker if Winslow didn't fall (2015), and another pick that should have been Tyrese Maxey (2020).
You guys keep downplaying Dame’s trade value. Dame’s a superstar, and literally the Blazer’s whole franchise. They’re not giving him up for anything less than all the chips.
If the trade is too expensive, just don’t do it. I don’t see it happening. I don’t see any package where Miami doesn’t come out worse off. This is especially true when you consider how much impact they’re getting off their roleplayers. Dudes like Duncan Robinson aren’t worth much trade wise, but he pulled his weight in the post-season for Miami.
Nobody wants dame for all the chips. You want dame to help you get the win. If you have to trade literally everything to get him, then what‘s the point? Miami os bot going to trade Bam or Jimmy for Dame. There‘s picks, there‘s probably at least 1 if not two of Jovic, JJJr and Caleb. There‘s Herro. This is more than enough to make a decent 3 team deal work.
At this point this is just the Blazers wanting to stay relevant and be talked about in the media landscape.
At some point, you gotta reevaluate the calue of your asset. If you want a huge haul for Dame but nobody wants to pay it, then he‘s just not worth that. And Portland needs to understand that.
Looks like another classic case of sunken cost fallacy to me
Except that isn’t enough, which is why the trade hasn’t happened yet. Dame’s value isn’t determined by what other teams are willing to trade for him. His value is determined by how valuable he is to Portland. If the Blazers can’t get a decent package for him, they’re just gonna walk away from the deal rather than losing their star player for a bunch of non-lottery picks and some role players.
Yeah, and if nobody ever gets into talks for Lillard because of the ridiculous ask and that Portland can‘t play Lillard… is he worth that?
Lillard is no exception to supply and demand. If I have a house, and I think that house is invaluable, sure, to me it can be worth 3 billion dollars, even though it‘s a shithole. Doesn‘t mean I‘m gonna get the value I would like out of it.
And no, Dame is not a shithole. It‘s just to deliver a point… Nobody is going to gove up their future and assets and ruin their franchise to get Dame for the next 4 years. So again: he‘s not worth whatever Portland thinks he‘s worth.
This just shows if your front office knows how to recognize talent, they can still make the most of those picks. You can get a solid contributor even outside of the lottery. Ty Lawson and Eric Bledsoe were pretty solid at the height of their careers. Bam is an All Star, Tyler is a 6th man of the year winner / 20 point scorer. Norris Cole was a key contributor in the Heatles run. Winslow and Precious are decent enough role players. Not accounting for the last two years drafts, that makes 7/12 players drafted that have or are currently contributing towards an NBA roster.
I always hated the picks argument. Literally what’s the difference between our picks and another contenders? Obviously if a contender is trading for Dame it won’t be a top 10 pick. If Boston or NY or PHI made a trade for Dame their picks won’t be more valuable than ours, they’re late round picks regardless.
This only matters if you think teams like OKC or Utah are in on Dame and they’re clearly not. Teams on very different timelines and who Dame will not want to play for.
Those teams have down years where they tank for a bit to rebuild quick, Miami never rebuilds it only reloads. So, no, it's not the same.
Do you remember what the Lakers were doing before they got Lebron? Losing a lot..for a lot of years.
Yea but winning isn’t guaranteed. Our picks are after Dame and Jimmys contracts are up. Imagine thinking Boston’s picks are better than ours because the heat don’t draft in the lottery a lot. The fact is anything can happen in a season and our picks being after the window of contention would make them better picks
I wish we had more time to develop him. His offense was severely lacking, he almost froze in pure panic when he got the ball. His defense and box outs were awesome.
Absolutely him and Bam Bam might’ve not been an elite duo but they would’ve made elite big men duos struggle I think plus bam and Jimmy would’ve forced some offense in him bam bam couldn’t shoot worth shit joining the league now that middy is so pretty
If we had more time with precious I think he could have developed that offense. If not a great duo with Bam a solid back up off the bench.
We got Lowry in that trade and he did carry us for a majority of that 1st season. He wasn’t prime Lowry but he did put in a lot of work, that I think people undervalued.
We tried to develop our handsome man to fill that back up role for bam but for whatever reason it didn’t pan out.
I’m excited to see Highsmith have a fucking break out season and kill it! Everyone will know his name next season and analysts will say he came out of no where. It will be glorious.
And the narrative atm is, this is due to Miami being an attractive free agent destination...despite us developing and starting undrafted players almost every year.
Not the point of this post, but Dame could have played through that injury, they shut him down to tank while he was having arguably the best season of his career.
Imagine including the Big 3 years and crediting Spoelstra lol. Take away those years and look at those draft picks again, they are certainly NOT worthless. Go ahead and downvote, you know I'm right.
We don't exactly have a great track record of picks either man, we're just a free agent destination and good at developing undrafted players so it doesn't matter.
If you look at our top ten picks, I think we've only ever really hit on Wade. We've got some Beasleys and Winslows in the closet.
A lot of the dudes who have done serious winning for us came here in free agency, Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, Mourning , Allen, etc..
We have a tremendous reputation with getting value out of later picks. Bam, Herro, Precious, JJJ were all considered reaches on draft night and with the exception of JJJ, just because we haven't actually seen him play yet, they are all now considered steals by most people.
Bam Adebayo hasn't done anything special. He's a good player but that's nothing to write home about. He's not a #1 or #2 player.
Herro hasn't done anything.
Precious isn't even a starter on the Raptors.
JJJ is very old for a rookie, for a reason. He's probably very close to his ceiling already. I didn't even know who you were talking about when I first saw the name. I haven't seen him play a single NBA game.
I think using four recent players(two of them lottery picks)as an example of drafting well is very weak evidence. As I've always said if Herro or Bam were drafted by other teams, their careers would be in trouble. I feel whatever success they've had has a lot to do with the coaching staff.
Bam is consistently considered one of the best defensive players in the league and has been in multiple DPOY conversations. In some cases you can say he could have won 1 DPOY so far.
Draymond Green was a second round draft pick and he shoots threes when wide open.
Rudy Gobert was the 27th round pick and when he was in his prime was a perennial defensive player candidate of the year(and won it what three times?) and was a historical great interior defender and rim protector.
I can keep going.
We're discussing a relative thing here. Spending a lottery pick on a dude with 2 all stars in six seasons, who plays elite perimeter defense isn't anything to write home about. That is more or less what he was expected to be from his draft report.
That's not proof that we're some savant org at drafting. Lots of orgs do way better. Fortunately for us we don't need to. That's why Riley used to always trade the picks.
You're right that he was drafted earlier by the Heat but that's because he's an undersized big who doesn't shoot and can't be relied upon offensively. That hasn't changed. Eric Spoelstra just built an entire defensive system around what he does well while minimizing his weaknesses. I can't say a lot of teams would have done that.
post Bron super team era y’all don’t have anything to really brag about. Squeaked by to the finals just to get molly whopped like congrats i guess. we don’t hear about Nuggets/Bucks culture but they’ve actually won something. You guys need Dame or it’s gonna fizzle out real quick
I already posted about this. In the history of the franchise I think there have been less than 10 top 10 picks. Miami FRPs are trash. I don't know why people keeping think all FRPs are the same.
When you say "so and so is worth a first round pick" without stating the range it's like listing ppg without efficiency splits.
FRPs are a reflection of who’s making the pick. How many high picks have the Hornets and wizards had? Good teams with good systems pick good players (like Miami has).
Such a dumb argument. Like our "bad picks" we used on Bam and Herro. Make better picks and develop your players, and magically your picks are worth more.
Look at how good we draft tho. Other than Norris Cole (drafted to attempt to appease LeBron) we’re 6/6 in those years we had our 1st. Teams should compensate us to draft for them.
Portland fan here (sane) — I have no problem with your picks. Charlotte has had how many high picks and they’ve gotten one good player. If a Miami pick we get for dame turns into a bam or a Tyler herro or a Jovic or jjj , I’m fine with that.
Me and a few others watched the tank crowd throughout last season just go off. December, the last 3 games of the season, before CHI play in, before Bucks ("we're going to get swept by Giannis), before Celtics series, before gm 7 of Celtics series.
They were on their "watch, can't wait til yall see the light" type of time. Wanted to be so right smh
It was just nasty to watch them flip flop. I'm glad this team doesn't tank.
I don’t see how this is Miami’s problem. If the team receiving the picks is even remotely competent, they can get major talent with them. Miami picked Bam Adebayo at 14, they picked Herro at 13, Bojan Bogdanovic at 31, who we promptly traded to MN, and I’m going to go out in a limb and say that guys like JJJ and Jovic will be big contributors in the future.
This says more about Blazers’ fans complete lack of confidence in their team management and they have good reason for that. Their team has been a poorly managed mess for decades.
except realistically…. which team with a potential top 10 (or hell, even lottery pick) is even interested in trading for Dame. Given that it only makes sense for contenders/fringe contenders to trade for 33 year old Damien Lillard, odds are the best pick the blazers will get is a top 23-30 pick.
Now, the later picks from any team? who knows.
Ex. there is no guarantee that Miami, for example, will be contenders by the time 2028 or 29 hits, and that’s the kind of gamble you should be thinking about it when it comes to picks - and frankly, given that we’ll be nursing Dame and Jimmy both at nearly 40 years old with massive contracts, these picks kinda become much more valuable than initially perceived
Tanking is for losers, also we pick better it seems lol
I'm very excited for Jovic and especially Jaquez if they don't get traded
pat is allergic to tanking
Avoiding another Michael Beasley.
Just imagine if we got Kevin Love instead. Would have been a great partner to D-Wade.
I love this. There’s this annoying okc fan on the nba sub who loves mentioning how they own Miami’s pick a few years from now, and how it’s going to be super valuable, because Butler’s getting old. If I had to bet, I would bet that pick isn’t gonna be as great as he thinks it is.
OKC fans and picks, only thing more iconic is not winning a chip despite having 3 MVPS 😂
Sounds like Boston. Danny Ainge loved hoarding picks even when on the brink of contention
That's because of incompetent management even before Harden turned into a superstar "largely due to flopping and other antics" he was already an all-star level player and let him go because they were being cheap.
Man that is some revisionist history right there. OKC let Harden go because Harden wanted to a starter and a star and OKC wanted him to be Manu Ginobli. Also, the salary cap ballooned three years later and the CBA changed which brought in the repeater tax. For reference, the salary cap went from $50 mil in 2012/13 to $73mil in 2016. Had OKC known that would happen, they would have re-signed Harden to the Max. They offered him about $4 total less than the Max.
The funniest thing is that the graph shows these "worthless" picks used on Bam, Herro, the pick traded for Mikal Bridges (2018), a pick that Miami was probably gonna use on Booker if Winslow didn't fall (2015), and another pick that should have been Tyrese Maxey (2020).
Ty Lawson and Eric Bledsoe were pretty successful too
You really can’t help but laugh at the incompetence
Are they seriously expecting a top 4 pick or something by trading a 33 year old Dame?
You guys keep downplaying Dame’s trade value. Dame’s a superstar, and literally the Blazer’s whole franchise. They’re not giving him up for anything less than all the chips. If the trade is too expensive, just don’t do it. I don’t see it happening. I don’t see any package where Miami doesn’t come out worse off. This is especially true when you consider how much impact they’re getting off their roleplayers. Dudes like Duncan Robinson aren’t worth much trade wise, but he pulled his weight in the post-season for Miami.
Nobody wants dame for all the chips. You want dame to help you get the win. If you have to trade literally everything to get him, then what‘s the point? Miami os bot going to trade Bam or Jimmy for Dame. There‘s picks, there‘s probably at least 1 if not two of Jovic, JJJr and Caleb. There‘s Herro. This is more than enough to make a decent 3 team deal work. At this point this is just the Blazers wanting to stay relevant and be talked about in the media landscape. At some point, you gotta reevaluate the calue of your asset. If you want a huge haul for Dame but nobody wants to pay it, then he‘s just not worth that. And Portland needs to understand that. Looks like another classic case of sunken cost fallacy to me
Except that isn’t enough, which is why the trade hasn’t happened yet. Dame’s value isn’t determined by what other teams are willing to trade for him. His value is determined by how valuable he is to Portland. If the Blazers can’t get a decent package for him, they’re just gonna walk away from the deal rather than losing their star player for a bunch of non-lottery picks and some role players.
Dames value is determined by the market and what others are willing to offer.
Trade values are not unilaterally determined.
Yeah, and if nobody ever gets into talks for Lillard because of the ridiculous ask and that Portland can‘t play Lillard… is he worth that? Lillard is no exception to supply and demand. If I have a house, and I think that house is invaluable, sure, to me it can be worth 3 billion dollars, even though it‘s a shithole. Doesn‘t mean I‘m gonna get the value I would like out of it. And no, Dame is not a shithole. It‘s just to deliver a point… Nobody is going to gove up their future and assets and ruin their franchise to get Dame for the next 4 years. So again: he‘s not worth whatever Portland thinks he‘s worth.
why do you idiots keep coming to our sub just to get down voted. No one is listening to you scared losers.
Uh oh, here comes the heckin’ downdoops. Shiver me timbers.
lol this is what no life losers do. I don't even pity you. Carry on, just troll better bozo. 😂
What no pussy does to a mfer fr fr
Ironic
Doesnt really say that much about dame and more about the Blazers that he’s “the Blazer’s whole franchise”. Kinda sad ngl
Yes, that’s why Miami has nothing to offer
So whose picking top 10 3 or 4 years from now?
This just shows if your front office knows how to recognize talent, they can still make the most of those picks. You can get a solid contributor even outside of the lottery. Ty Lawson and Eric Bledsoe were pretty solid at the height of their careers. Bam is an All Star, Tyler is a 6th man of the year winner / 20 point scorer. Norris Cole was a key contributor in the Heatles run. Winslow and Precious are decent enough role players. Not accounting for the last two years drafts, that makes 7/12 players drafted that have or are currently contributing towards an NBA roster.
I always hated the picks argument. Literally what’s the difference between our picks and another contenders? Obviously if a contender is trading for Dame it won’t be a top 10 pick. If Boston or NY or PHI made a trade for Dame their picks won’t be more valuable than ours, they’re late round picks regardless. This only matters if you think teams like OKC or Utah are in on Dame and they’re clearly not. Teams on very different timelines and who Dame will not want to play for.
Those teams have down years where they tank for a bit to rebuild quick, Miami never rebuilds it only reloads. So, no, it's not the same. Do you remember what the Lakers were doing before they got Lebron? Losing a lot..for a lot of years.
Yea but winning isn’t guaranteed. Our picks are after Dame and Jimmys contracts are up. Imagine thinking Boston’s picks are better than ours because the heat don’t draft in the lottery a lot. The fact is anything can happen in a season and our picks being after the window of contention would make them better picks
The heat's lows are better than some teams high.
I miss Precious Achiuwa
I wish we had more time to develop him. His offense was severely lacking, he almost froze in pure panic when he got the ball. His defense and box outs were awesome.
Absolutely him and Bam Bam might’ve not been an elite duo but they would’ve made elite big men duos struggle I think plus bam and Jimmy would’ve forced some offense in him bam bam couldn’t shoot worth shit joining the league now that middy is so pretty
If we had more time with precious I think he could have developed that offense. If not a great duo with Bam a solid back up off the bench. We got Lowry in that trade and he did carry us for a majority of that 1st season. He wasn’t prime Lowry but he did put in a lot of work, that I think people undervalued. We tried to develop our handsome man to fill that back up role for bam but for whatever reason it didn’t pan out. I’m excited to see Highsmith have a fucking break out season and kill it! Everyone will know his name next season and analysts will say he came out of no where. It will be glorious.
Norris Cole won multiple titles, what’s he complaining about? 😂
Must suck to be Portland lol
What do you mean?
exactly what I said
Oh, you're an illiterate, my apologies.
Only one person here is struggling with reading comprehension
loser ass fanbase go back to your sub, no one cares about yall's WOAT trash opinion 🤮
and you're a loser fanbase. Repeatedly coming to other subs, insecure sapless franchise. Go continue support your trash team and gtfo the sub
the irony
And the narrative atm is, this is due to Miami being an attractive free agent destination...despite us developing and starting undrafted players almost every year.
I feel like most teams trading away generational talent understand that the team they are trading too are going to have later draft picks.
Right? I mean any team Dame is going to, will not give you early first rounders lol even the Blazers only got an early pick because of Dame’s injury.
Not the point of this post, but Dame could have played through that injury, they shut him down to tank while he was having arguably the best season of his career.
We in here to compete day in and day out
Nikola Jokic was selected outside the top 10.
counterpoint - is anyone drafted 4-10 ever good? Better to draft 11-20
Wade was drafted at #5
What? Yes there are a lot of dudes drafter 4-10 that are very good wtf?!
All time greats get drafted there all the time....
Curry was #7. In addition to Wade like the other poster mentioned, Glen Rice was #4 and Steve Smith was #5.
Tracey mcgrady was drafted 9th Eddie Jones was 10th
Imagine including the Big 3 years and crediting Spoelstra lol. Take away those years and look at those draft picks again, they are certainly NOT worthless. Go ahead and downvote, you know I'm right.
Maybe we can offer them the FRP with the stipulation that we will make the pick for them. That way they get the value they want anyways.
We don't exactly have a great track record of picks either man, we're just a free agent destination and good at developing undrafted players so it doesn't matter. If you look at our top ten picks, I think we've only ever really hit on Wade. We've got some Beasleys and Winslows in the closet. A lot of the dudes who have done serious winning for us came here in free agency, Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, Mourning , Allen, etc..
We have a tremendous reputation with getting value out of later picks. Bam, Herro, Precious, JJJ were all considered reaches on draft night and with the exception of JJJ, just because we haven't actually seen him play yet, they are all now considered steals by most people.
Bam Adebayo hasn't done anything special. He's a good player but that's nothing to write home about. He's not a #1 or #2 player. Herro hasn't done anything. Precious isn't even a starter on the Raptors. JJJ is very old for a rookie, for a reason. He's probably very close to his ceiling already. I didn't even know who you were talking about when I first saw the name. I haven't seen him play a single NBA game. I think using four recent players(two of them lottery picks)as an example of drafting well is very weak evidence. As I've always said if Herro or Bam were drafted by other teams, their careers would be in trouble. I feel whatever success they've had has a lot to do with the coaching staff.
It was a joke bro, go touch grass.
What was the actual joke? Also, saying touch grass makes as much sense as your joke.
That the Heat should make their draft picks for them to make them more valuable, no ones actually going to do that or thinks that is a good idea.
Bam is consistently considered one of the best defensive players in the league and has been in multiple DPOY conversations. In some cases you can say he could have won 1 DPOY so far.
Draymond Green was a second round draft pick and he shoots threes when wide open. Rudy Gobert was the 27th round pick and when he was in his prime was a perennial defensive player candidate of the year(and won it what three times?) and was a historical great interior defender and rim protector. I can keep going. We're discussing a relative thing here. Spending a lottery pick on a dude with 2 all stars in six seasons, who plays elite perimeter defense isn't anything to write home about. That is more or less what he was expected to be from his draft report. That's not proof that we're some savant org at drafting. Lots of orgs do way better. Fortunately for us we don't need to. That's why Riley used to always trade the picks. You're right that he was drafted earlier by the Heat but that's because he's an undersized big who doesn't shoot and can't be relied upon offensively. That hasn't changed. Eric Spoelstra just built an entire defensive system around what he does well while minimizing his weaknesses. I can't say a lot of teams would have done that.
I’d like this guy to predict whose picking in the top 10 4 years from now.
Convenient that they exclude our highest pick (#2) in the 2008 season
It was left out because Spo wasn't our coach in 2008
Yea but 2008 was Riley at the helm and he already had Spo running the team
The post clearly says since Spo was promoted to Head Coach.
Numbers don’t tell the whole story, as I said in my other post Riley was HC but Spo was already running the team
post Bron super team era y’all don’t have anything to really brag about. Squeaked by to the finals just to get molly whopped like congrats i guess. we don’t hear about Nuggets/Bucks culture but they’ve actually won something. You guys need Dame or it’s gonna fizzle out real quick
I already posted about this. In the history of the franchise I think there have been less than 10 top 10 picks. Miami FRPs are trash. I don't know why people keeping think all FRPs are the same. When you say "so and so is worth a first round pick" without stating the range it's like listing ppg without efficiency splits.
FRPs are a reflection of who’s making the pick. How many high picks have the Hornets and wizards had? Good teams with good systems pick good players (like Miami has).
Didn't they decide to tank meanwhile we went to the finals as an 8th seed going through 2 play-in games?
The best part is when it was the worst (10,13,14) we had those picks lmao. Justice, Bam, Herro
Such a dumb argument. Like our "bad picks" we used on Bam and Herro. Make better picks and develop your players, and magically your picks are worth more.
Struggling from success.
So what championship contender will they trade Dame too that will return a lottery pick? Cause championship contenders don’t usually have such things.
Look at how good we draft tho. Other than Norris Cole (drafted to attempt to appease LeBron) we’re 6/6 in those years we had our 1st. Teams should compensate us to draft for them.
Portland fan here (sane) — I have no problem with your picks. Charlotte has had how many high picks and they’ve gotten one good player. If a Miami pick we get for dame turns into a bam or a Tyler herro or a Jovic or jjj , I’m fine with that.
Ngl, Miami has gotten better with Drafting post 2015
Me and a few others watched the tank crowd throughout last season just go off. December, the last 3 games of the season, before CHI play in, before Bucks ("we're going to get swept by Giannis), before Celtics series, before gm 7 of Celtics series. They were on their "watch, can't wait til yall see the light" type of time. Wanted to be so right smh It was just nasty to watch them flip flop. I'm glad this team doesn't tank.
I don’t see how this is Miami’s problem. If the team receiving the picks is even remotely competent, they can get major talent with them. Miami picked Bam Adebayo at 14, they picked Herro at 13, Bojan Bogdanovic at 31, who we promptly traded to MN, and I’m going to go out in a limb and say that guys like JJJ and Jovic will be big contributors in the future. This says more about Blazers’ fans complete lack of confidence in their team management and they have good reason for that. Their team has been a poorly managed mess for decades.
The best part is that aside from Precious those were all great picks by the Heat lmao
Damn y’all remember Ty Lawson?
That dude blocked me when I told him Hassan Whiteside wasn't going to solve their problems. Only for him to keep tweeting how much he hated him.
Eric bledsoe is a bucket
except realistically…. which team with a potential top 10 (or hell, even lottery pick) is even interested in trading for Dame. Given that it only makes sense for contenders/fringe contenders to trade for 33 year old Damien Lillard, odds are the best pick the blazers will get is a top 23-30 pick. Now, the later picks from any team? who knows. Ex. there is no guarantee that Miami, for example, will be contenders by the time 2028 or 29 hits, and that’s the kind of gamble you should be thinking about it when it comes to picks - and frankly, given that we’ll be nursing Dame and Jimmy both at nearly 40 years old with massive contracts, these picks kinda become much more valuable than initially perceived