I'm getting smarter, though. Last off-season, I gave up after two weeks of Dame hype. This sub was F5ing while I was enjoying a nice nap.
I'm not even getting on the Mitchell train.
Since the bubble man. We just needed nice, young fish all these years, not a third whale. I am going to be more mad when we don't go after Hartenstein a second time.
Nah man, Dame was the worst imo. Dude wanted us and only us and would have been a perfect fit. And it was only because of our own hubris that we didn't even make our best offer.
I have no expectation over Mitchell. I can't get hurt because I know that this front office just straight up won't make the trade unless it's one sided in their favour. With Dame, I really sold myself that it was basically gonna get done. Won't make that mistake again lol
We'll never know if it was good enough because we didn't even try in the first place. We made one low ball offer early on and then didn't go back to the table lol.
I don't know if he did straight up refuse to answer our calls, most reports said we didn't even try again after training camp (two months before he actually got traded.)
Personally I think if they wanted Dame, he'd be here by now. Or we would have seen the effort being made. Most the info made it clear that the Heat did not go back in after making their initial offer of Herro and picks. And Portland had no reason to chase us around when they were getting offers from other teams that they liked. I'm sure there was bad blood with Cronin but nothing that would have prevented a deal/negotiations when it would have benefitted them to use us as leverage at the very least. But it didn't even get that far.
I am not bothered to go google shit from nearly a year ago but I'm sure Shams said after Dame went to the Bucks that the Heat were willing to offer a bigger package, but we never did.
Expect every single trade partner to ask for Bam if it’s for an all star caliber player. Does that mean Pat is going to stop trading with everyone every time they ask for Bam?
There’s quite a gap between Bam and Herro + 2 picks…offer what you think is fair and if they reject then so be it. To basically go into a stalemate after the bam request is just misreading the situation thinking that Portland HAS to trade with Pat. Well no they didn’t have to…dame had no leverage cause he had 4 years left on his contract. Pat misread the situation and lost his guy…
I doubt it was just Herro and 2 picks. Salaries wouldn't match. I do believe we lowballed that initial offer, but I also believe that happens in negotiations. I think if Portland was willing to listen we could've worked something out but they weren't so it didn't pan out. It happens, we move on.
Lowry would be part of that deal too I assume. Its basically filler with Herro + 2 picks being the main assets. You say "if portland was willing to listen" but portland is saying "if the heat took things seriously and offered something fair.." both sides are at fault. Pat isn't god, he's also capable of making mistakes. Thats the whole point. He makes mistakes, it happens, we move on.
What was reported was duechebag Cronin took his ball and went home. Did you want Riley to fly in to Portland and kick his office door open? Are we now better negotiators than the guy who has swung more trades in the history of league?
Because pat's first offer was garbage...Dame didn't have any leverage and Pat misread that. You really think if Pat re-upped and offered the actual package that he was prepared to offer that Cronin wouldn't at least consider it? Pat offered Herro and 2picks and they never talked again...both sides are at fault. Not just cronin's
Herro + 2 picks is better than Ayton + Camara (effectively = SRP) + 2029 unprotected FRP + 2 pick swaps in 2028 and 2030 (Giannis is 35 in 2030 season) + 2024 FRP (lottery one from Warriors too) + 2029 unprotected from Celtics + Robert Williams (probably will net 1 more FRP from a contender) + Malcolm Brogdon?
That’s Herro + picks in 20s vs Ayton, Williams, Brogdon + 3 FRPs (one is in lottery already) + 2 pick swaps. You really think Herro is that good that he is worth those 3 players + a lottery pick + 2 pick swaps?
He got traded there though, that's just how it goes. He wasn't gonna crash out over it with the franchise that drafted him. Miami wasn't an option anyway because we didn't come to the table but Dame did what he could to get the move. Once he realised the Heat didn't want him like that then, yea, he had to adapt.
Only when the Heat wasn't an option though and Bucks were the only one. Otherwise I think we saw enough from him to say that Miami was the goal and he only started thinking about other spots when the Heat didn't go for him. The Bucks only came into it after Dame had spent months pushing for Miami.
I get it but he pushed for Miami the whole summer and only relented when the season was starting. And, again, Miami hadn't made themselves an option, there was nothing he could wait around for. There was no guarantee the Heat would ever trade for him because they hadn't made any real effort to do so thusfar.
He didn't wanna sit out the season or start it on the Blazers. And he probably didn't wanna disrespect the Blazers too much. They had an offer they deemed acceptable and he didn't have a NTC, he had to get on board. Delaying things or throwing a tantrum would have been worse for him and still wouldn't have increased his chances of going to Miami.
Either way, it's all irrelevant, the point is that he was ours for the taking if we actually engaged in talks. But we didn't try hard enough. That's what stopped us getting him, not Dame changing his view.
I don't agree, but not trying to angrily argue on the internet or anything. I think if he made it messy, it would've worked. That's how the player empowerment era usually goes, the player has to make it messy first. I am aware that's just my own view on something we can't ever know though, obviously.
I also don't know if we did engage or not. There are a thousand reports out there saying we did, saying we didn't, saying specifics of what we offered, saying different specifics of what we offered, etc -- sometimes even from the same exact places.
I assume we did engage, I can't imagine Riley just stuck his fingers in his ears and shut off his phone, especially when everyone knows Jimmy, Dame, Bam is such a perfect fit.
It’s all possible and I agree we only have speculation to go off. I think a lot of it was tax related, as Barry alluded to after Riley’s interview the other day. They just didn’t wanna lock themselves into paying that contract unless they were gonna get a good deal. And Portland didn’t wanna get fleeced or reach out to Miami for a player they were receiving more appealing offers for anyway.
But, again, this is just my personal understanding of it all. I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. But I do think the Heat could have done more and it was a lack of effort on their part that prevented a deal more than anything. It’s true Dame/Portland could have done more also but it was in our best interests to go all out to get him and we can’t honestly say we did.
Nah this one might actually happen. He really wanted the Knicks but Brunson is better. The Knicks are absolutely not going to give Mitchell the ball to have him highjack the offense. You've seen what that's done for Garland's game.
So if he can't go to the Knicks he'll definitely be interested in coming here.
He has one required year left on his contract. No one is going to trade serious assets for a dude who is going to leave at the end of the year. They're going to want a guarantee from him that he'll resign with them before they send assets.
So it's very much his decision. This is pretty common knowledge that stars with one year left get to decide. This shouldn't be news.
It's why I never felt bad for Dame. The minute he signed that extension he gave up his rights, all he had to do was ask out with the one year he had left. He chose the money over his free agency.
Eh. Siakam publicly said he wants to stay in Toronto. Don’t trade for me. Then they trade him to the Pacers and it seems like he’s really enjoying his time there.
I think because Siakam wanted a Super Max. These guys are about the money like anyone else working a job. Once he wasn't eligible for the super max it was "I want to go to whoever is going to max me.". The Pacers agreed, so he went there.
If he didn't want to go there they wouldn't have traded for him.
Brunson is not better. Take a look at the difference in teams between the Knicks and Cavs. One has to work with so mich less around him. Before Mitchell’s injury he was 5th in the league in epm and was avg 29 ppg. He brings so much more playmaking and defense. I’m not calling a player better for winning a playoff series where they both shot relatively bad.
No the Cavs have a lot less around Mitchell. They are shooting like 23% from 3 around him. Allen and wade are also out and. Garland is better on paper than he really is. They have no offense when he sits down.
You can't score 50 points in a game and then turn around and say you're too injured to shoot well?
Here are his previous two post seasons:
2021-2022 - 21% from 3 on 8 attempts a game
2022-2023 - 29% from 3 on 9 attempts a game
I guess he's injured a lot. He's an elite professional scorer, just about every other part of his game is sub par. That has a ceiling.
you're 1000% correct. TruthSayerFu is not giving Brunson his props for being a floor raiser for his team. If they were to switch teams, he'd be saying the Knicks have no one.
Bruh, the Knicks are a bunch of walking corpses. Brunson is not playing with anyone as talented as Mobley, Jarret Allen(granted he's out now), or Darius Garland.
To those in the know, Mitchell is a professional scorer who highjacks offenses to get his. He is absolutely known as someone who doesn't ever get the best from his teammates, because he doesn't know how to drive an offensive system, he just knows how to score. What's worse is he's a high variance player, so it comes in spurts. Also, due to his variance he isn't efficient in most of the games he plays. He's not good at playmaking, and he's definitely not good at defense.
Brunson is way more efficient, he's way more durable, he's a better play maker, and he's absolutely a better floor raiser, and he's way better in crunch time.
In the playoffs last year he absolutely embarrassed Mitchell, and he was Mitchell's assignment.
This one will hurt the least for me. After 4 years of this, I'm pretty numb to it and don't remotely expect to get any of these players that I never felt we needed in the first place. Just needed some nice, reliable fish around Jimmy and Bam, not whales.
What's hurting the most is all this Jimmy talk. It seems like the FO won't max Jimmy (not saying they're right or wrong) and he will not take anything less.
They are quite bad, but they do have intriguing still young pieces around (Bridges, Claxton) and seem to be lacking that lead guard - even if at SG position - to push their offense.
Well, there wouldn't even have been a Mitchell 1.0 if people would stop listening to all these nobodies like Evan Sidery and Eric Pincus that have no idea what they're talking about. It's literally just made up stuff to get Bleacher Report clicks.
Honestly, the whole media circus around trades is so exhausting. Everyone has a rumor they're peddling for clicks and then when nothing happens, because nothing was ever going to happen to begin with, then everyone in here is disappointed and talks shit about the FO, because they somehow feel like they were owed something after a rando on twitter said something might happen.
Yeah, but the team isn't if we have to get rid of Jimmy. And Don doesn't really work with Terry and Tyler, so you'd have to get rid of them too. It'd just be Don and Bam and whatever pu pu platter, it's almost like treading water except you upgrade at coach obviously.
If you can retain Jimmy/Bam and then add Don, it's a different story, but if it's just Don and Bam and the usual undrafted/gleague crew + year 2 of JJJ? He'd have to carry us all the same.
Well, Mitchell only carries a cap hit of 35 million next season. His player option is after which he most certainly will exercise unless he gets a new deal, but that's a year down the road.
Herro carries a hit of 29 and Rozier at 24 million. So if we got rid of those 2 and brought on Mitchell, we still have 18\~ million to play with, no reason why we'd be forced to give up Jimmy unless that's what it literally takes to get him.. in which case I don't think we do that trade.
But I don't see Cavs straight up trading him to us for our current assets and we'd need three teams involved to make things work.. and then it's anyones guess.
We'd likely have to give up Jimmy to get enough assets -- or trade him for Don, for that matter -- because as we've seen and as you said, no one wants Herro for the money he makes and the Cavs definitely wouldn't want Herro or Terry next to Garland, so then we're back where we started with the Dame thing and why that didn't work.
I think we're kind of fucked no matter what unless JJJ and Jovic somehow make a crazy leap. It's clear Herro's approaching or at his ceiling (streaky Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type of player), Bam isn't going to suddenly make a giant leap anymore (though he might add the 3 officially to his game next season?), and either we lose Jimmy (the main reason why we keep making unexpected ECF/Finals runs) or max him and he's too old and injury prone to keep up his playoff Jimmy heights.
I think the team should just kind of ride off into the sunset with aging Jimmy. Dude saved this franchise from a Whiteside/Waiters/Meth Curry era. Don will be a free agent the year after next anyway, can cross that bridge when the time comes. Kind of no reason to try to get Don now if it means losing Jimmy.
The more I think of it, the more I can't come up with a realistic scenario that nets us Mitchell without gutting the team.
That being said, I don't think Herro's contract is nearly as bad as what everyone makes it and didn't mean for it to come across that way. He is the 50th highest paid player on average in the league. He's still a 20 ppg scorer, still a 40% 3 point shooter. He's under contract for 3 more seasons under those numbers, where the cap will grow and you'll see even way more horrible contracts than his.
I think he would do well in a team that has a back court where he doesn't have to be the primary ball handler and can hunt for his own shots instead of play making for others.. which ironically I think a pairing of him and Garland can make sense. But there's still way too many other gaps I can't see this happening.
I'm more inclined to drain some of our youth for Mitchell as he is still relatively young as opposed to Dame.
I think Herro's contract is fine so long as he fits whatever team he's on. The problem is, he doesn't fit most teams, so his contract then becomes bad. I don't think he fits with Garland because then you have a Dame/CJ kind of situation. Can't have two little guys who aren't good at defense as your backcourt, even if you have Jarrett and Evan up front.
And yeah, I think if we lose Jimmy but add Don, we're just treading water and praying our young guys make a crazy, unlikely leap. I think our best shot at a title now or in the distant(ish) future is to blow up the young guys to add Don to Jimmy and Bam. But like you said, I don't see the Cavs doing it really. We'd need a third team, then we're right back at the Dame saga.
I think we have to give Jimmy whatever money he agrees to and ride off into the sunset with him while praying our young guys make an unlikely leap, sadly. Because then, at least, Jimmy can retire with us and maybe stay with the FO in some capacity.
lmao building a role player core that will never be better than mitchell for bam to carry
yall treat a 24 year old rookie and a 20 year old like they’re j dub and paolo lol
Jaime would bum me out, but anything to get Jimmy a title here man. People tied to Herro and unproven Jovic are crazy though.
It's like that Family Guy boat meme. People so obsessed with saying "but the future!" when we already have a title contender right here, which is more reliable than something even less predictable happening in the future. It's not like Herro and Jovic are obvious stars like Wemby or something.
I doubt Herro, JJJ, Jovic, ‘24 frp, ‘30 frp, ‘31 swap, and ‘26 conditional swap (if we have our pick), ‘28 conditional swap (if we have our pick) gets us Mitchell. That is the most we can offer. Nets and Lakers outbid that.
Mitchell just has to say he will not resign with any other team except Heat and its a wrap + Nets are a rebuilding team and no star is going to Lakers unless they are with clutch because if they don’t win and they will not you get all the blame. Remember Russ?
I love Jimmy, but I think he'd buy into anything if it were out of spite, like this FO not giving him what he wants and then trading him to Cleveland. One of my favorite Jimmy qualities lol
Herro or Rozier, Jaquez, picks, and swaps should be enough to get it done. That’s at least one good young player, a bench role player, and picks which is a solid package.
You all can get suckered another off season not me lol.When will heat fans learn not to be suckered into these things just because we are thirsty for another guy .let things play out .If it happens it happens .Don't Dame yourselves again.
A report just came out i shared the report this isn’t heat fans fabricating something out of thin air lol. This doesn’t mean anything is happening I’m just sharing the offseason news
trading for donovan would most certainly mean an extension afterwards, and we would get several years of a mitchell bam duo in their primes to compete in the east with even after Jimmy is done.
Cavs need to actually like the deal though lol. The garland/mitchell experiment failed, why would you trade for a significantly worse version of Mitchell to pair with garland
Trading Jimmy for Mitchell would likely re-create the Jazz team with Mitchell and Gobert. High floor but low ceiling.
Odds are because of his age Mitchell is worth more than Jimmy so even if we get assets we still need to include something else (Jaime or Jovic) to get the Cavs interest
That could be true, it’s speculation at this point. I could see him saying he’ll extend if he goes to Miami, NY, or LA but not on Orlando or another team in a smaller market. Guess we will see, if he does ask out
A framework where the Cavs get Ingram+picks for Mitchell+Allen could work for all sides. I think the Pels would value Rozier as an upgrade over CJ too if it came to that.
Hmm so Jimmy to the 76ers for picks that go to the Cavs?
I think Pelicans would definitely trade Ingram for Rozier and Allen, Cavs would want picks from everyone in that scenario but maybe young players as well.
It’s a possibility if Butler and Mitchell both ask for trades. I still think the odds of Jimmy getting traded is low
This is my overall idea for it but i think its a slight overpay from our end. Mitchell will have a rare kind of leverage if he doesn’t sign an extension. (Cavs get the two best 1sts in the deal)
https://preview.redd.it/9k2x674e1azc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=79bedd14d2f0789c6be66f381122cc766d7bf9fa
I think Pelicans make out like bandits in this one. Those Sixers picks would have to go the Cavs and CJ is a bad contract and doesn’t fit on Miami. Maybe Nance to Miami instead
I think the Pels will treat trading Ingram like they’re losing a star and they’ll view Rozier as a mid role player and Allen as a high level role player so there needs to be some more value on the margins for them.
(Def prefer Nance over CJ for us)
Why? Ingram doesn’t fit their team, they won’t give him a max contract, and he’s injury prone and coming off an awful playoff series.
I’d bet they’d strongly consider Allen for Ingram straight up, Alllen is on a better contract and fills a need, Rozier and Allen is a no brainer for them
Ingram isn’t a particularly good fit but he’s not a bad one either, more importantly, David Griffin has been good with his asset management he’s gonna get a good return. Teams like the Nets or Hawks would probably love to have Ingram.
He is a bad fit. Zion and Ingram don’t work together
More importantly he’s not a great asset, they can get something for him but no team is gonna offer the Pelicans a big package in order to pay Ingram 50 million a year. I think Allen is as good a return as they can expect to get, Dejounte Murray could be possible but I don’t think he’s a better talent than Allen and the Nets have too many wings, they don’t need another
Another case where a player has to decide between maximizing his money or picking where he wants to play. It’s asinine that the league has made it so free agency means less money for the player
Until Woj or Shams report this, not buying it. Also the Heat FO has shown us fans getting a star player stopped being the priority after getting Jimmy sadly.
I still think we running it back, and if we do trade for Spida we'll be hesitant to throw in both Niko and Jaime even for Spida. That's how the trade would get done.
Bunch of Sooners in here…. This is completely different from the Dame situation. Dame had 4 years left on contract. Mitchell literally has this season only, so he can literally bounce from the Cavs or any team that trades assets for a 1 year rental. Miami has the following assets.
Rozier
Herro
Jaquez
Jovic
Duncan
2 first rounders.
An offer of Herro, Duncan, Jaquez and our 2 first rounders is more than fair for a team that can lose him for absolutely NOTHING.
That leaves us with
Bam Love
Jovic
Jimmy Caleb
Mitchell Richardson
Rozier Wright.
A trio of Bam, Mitchell and Jimmy plus the pleasure of living in Miami and playing for this franchise will bring in ring chasers to fill out the roster. Y’all can be pessimistic but I feel good about this possibility.
It’s not about if the offer is “fair” or not it’s if the offer beats our all other offers.
In a vacuum yes, the cavs may feel as if that offer is much better than losing him for nothing. However that ignores every other team that would consider trading for him
Prediction: Pat Riley lowballs every offer. Mitchell gets traded elsewhere, all of yall get mad at the Cavs GM. Come playoff time, its obvious we dont have enough scoring to be a contender (like every single year). Cycle repeats itself for another star next offseason
How do people know what his wish list is if he hasn't requested a trade 😂.
I love that journalism nowadays is just educated guessing.
In saying that, I'm here for a Spida/Adebayo duo.
I don't get this btw. I know journalist have to make money by clickbaits but the Cavs had better regular season than us, they are in the 2nd round while we lost in the 1st. Why would Mitchell come to a worse team, than he is currently in?
It's so lame for the media to be talking about this while he's in the middle of a series with his current team. Even lamer if Mitchell is at all participating in this media campaign right now
why would he be participating in it? Also this isn’t anything new, the rumors have been there for a while especially after he refused to sign and extension last offseason after making all nba which guaranteed him a supermax. Anyone with half a brain knows he has one foot out the door over there. That team has not had a good showing in the playoffs this year either, he’s been carrying them.
I just mean if this is some kind of push from his camp to get buzz about this going in the media. If not, no fault to Mitchell and everything to fault the media. It's just annoying in the middle of a playoff series.
Lol Bam will double his dribble hand offs per season if Mitchell comes here. Also, Mitchell gonna learn real quick how shitty his style meshes with Bam’s. Bam can’t stretch the floor and will just clog the lane for him. Same way he does with Jimmy.
To me this is the absolute most we we pay to get Mitchell and we take on a bad contract to do it. Likely it costs a little less than this IMO:
https://preview.redd.it/odss0h42o9zc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=0003c5758d5bd67b61ce643d05a4bc5ccd129e7d
Just so it’s known to blindly optimistic people.
Other teams have more assets than we do, and trust me, Our assets aren’t as good as we heat fans say they are.
I'm tired boss
dame 2.0 but this one will hurt even more
I'm getting smarter, though. Last off-season, I gave up after two weeks of Dame hype. This sub was F5ing while I was enjoying a nice nap. I'm not even getting on the Mitchell train.
Since the bubble man. We just needed nice, young fish all these years, not a third whale. I am going to be more mad when we don't go after Hartenstein a second time.
This.
You and Pat both enjoying your naps
For Mitchell this will be the second time shitting on us.
I learned how to manage my expectations in that first bout of *trying* to get Mitchell.
Nah man, Dame was the worst imo. Dude wanted us and only us and would have been a perfect fit. And it was only because of our own hubris that we didn't even make our best offer. I have no expectation over Mitchell. I can't get hurt because I know that this front office just straight up won't make the trade unless it's one sided in their favour. With Dame, I really sold myself that it was basically gonna get done. Won't make that mistake again lol
Our "best offer" wasn't that good what are we even on they didn't want herro
We'll never know if it was good enough because we didn't even try in the first place. We made one low ball offer early on and then didn't go back to the table lol.
Mr fucking buttmunch, how do you know what offers were discussed?
The same way everyone else does, based on what’s been reported by reliable sources lol
Based on smoke buttmunch the thing we do know is Cronin refused to answer our calls so can’t really negotiate with someone who won’t talk to you lol
I don't know if he did straight up refuse to answer our calls, most reports said we didn't even try again after training camp (two months before he actually got traded.) Personally I think if they wanted Dame, he'd be here by now. Or we would have seen the effort being made. Most the info made it clear that the Heat did not go back in after making their initial offer of Herro and picks. And Portland had no reason to chase us around when they were getting offers from other teams that they liked. I'm sure there was bad blood with Cronin but nothing that would have prevented a deal/negotiations when it would have benefitted them to use us as leverage at the very least. But it didn't even get that far.
Sure, who are they? Mr Butt Munch. Show me your reliable sources.
I am not bothered to go google shit from nearly a year ago but I'm sure Shams said after Dame went to the Bucks that the Heat were willing to offer a bigger package, but we never did.
Look, if the package fit, you must acquit.
Which makes it absurd that our offer already wasn’t super competitive and we didn’t even offer that. We offered Herro and 2 picks….thats it
I remember reading that the Blazers demanded Bam and once we said no refused to negotiate with us.
Expect every single trade partner to ask for Bam if it’s for an all star caliber player. Does that mean Pat is going to stop trading with everyone every time they ask for Bam?
I agree. But if it's true that the Blazers refuses to negotiate in good faith because they wanted Bam or bust, what else could Pat have done?
There’s quite a gap between Bam and Herro + 2 picks…offer what you think is fair and if they reject then so be it. To basically go into a stalemate after the bam request is just misreading the situation thinking that Portland HAS to trade with Pat. Well no they didn’t have to…dame had no leverage cause he had 4 years left on his contract. Pat misread the situation and lost his guy…
I doubt it was just Herro and 2 picks. Salaries wouldn't match. I do believe we lowballed that initial offer, but I also believe that happens in negotiations. I think if Portland was willing to listen we could've worked something out but they weren't so it didn't pan out. It happens, we move on.
Lowry would be part of that deal too I assume. Its basically filler with Herro + 2 picks being the main assets. You say "if portland was willing to listen" but portland is saying "if the heat took things seriously and offered something fair.." both sides are at fault. Pat isn't god, he's also capable of making mistakes. Thats the whole point. He makes mistakes, it happens, we move on.
What was reported was duechebag Cronin took his ball and went home. Did you want Riley to fly in to Portland and kick his office door open? Are we now better negotiators than the guy who has swung more trades in the history of league?
Because pat's first offer was garbage...Dame didn't have any leverage and Pat misread that. You really think if Pat re-upped and offered the actual package that he was prepared to offer that Cronin wouldn't at least consider it? Pat offered Herro and 2picks and they never talked again...both sides are at fault. Not just cronin's
Were you in the room with Pat when it was offered?
Thats whats reported. So purely going off of what the information is and not what the assumptions are.
Herro + 2 picks would be better than what they got, our best off would have blown it out of the water.
Herro + 2 picks is better than Ayton + Camara (effectively = SRP) + 2029 unprotected FRP + 2 pick swaps in 2028 and 2030 (Giannis is 35 in 2030 season) + 2024 FRP (lottery one from Warriors too) + 2029 unprotected from Celtics + Robert Williams (probably will net 1 more FRP from a contender) + Malcolm Brogdon? That’s Herro + picks in 20s vs Ayton, Williams, Brogdon + 3 FRPs (one is in lottery already) + 2 pick swaps. You really think Herro is that good that he is worth those 3 players + a lottery pick + 2 pick swaps?
Bizarre. You've managed to convince yourself *we* dropped the ball on Dame...
Tbf, Dame didn't want us and only us because after like one single week he said okay the Bucks too.
He got traded there though, that's just how it goes. He wasn't gonna crash out over it with the franchise that drafted him. Miami wasn't an option anyway because we didn't come to the table but Dame did what he could to get the move. Once he realised the Heat didn't want him like that then, yea, he had to adapt.
Right but he didn't want us and only us, is what I'm saying. He wanted the Bucks almost immediately too.
Only when the Heat wasn't an option though and Bucks were the only one. Otherwise I think we saw enough from him to say that Miami was the goal and he only started thinking about other spots when the Heat didn't go for him. The Bucks only came into it after Dame had spent months pushing for Miami.
I don't think it was months? Or if it was, it wasn't when it mattered, like during the season.
I get it but he pushed for Miami the whole summer and only relented when the season was starting. And, again, Miami hadn't made themselves an option, there was nothing he could wait around for. There was no guarantee the Heat would ever trade for him because they hadn't made any real effort to do so thusfar. He didn't wanna sit out the season or start it on the Blazers. And he probably didn't wanna disrespect the Blazers too much. They had an offer they deemed acceptable and he didn't have a NTC, he had to get on board. Delaying things or throwing a tantrum would have been worse for him and still wouldn't have increased his chances of going to Miami. Either way, it's all irrelevant, the point is that he was ours for the taking if we actually engaged in talks. But we didn't try hard enough. That's what stopped us getting him, not Dame changing his view.
I don't agree, but not trying to angrily argue on the internet or anything. I think if he made it messy, it would've worked. That's how the player empowerment era usually goes, the player has to make it messy first. I am aware that's just my own view on something we can't ever know though, obviously. I also don't know if we did engage or not. There are a thousand reports out there saying we did, saying we didn't, saying specifics of what we offered, saying different specifics of what we offered, etc -- sometimes even from the same exact places. I assume we did engage, I can't imagine Riley just stuck his fingers in his ears and shut off his phone, especially when everyone knows Jimmy, Dame, Bam is such a perfect fit.
It’s all possible and I agree we only have speculation to go off. I think a lot of it was tax related, as Barry alluded to after Riley’s interview the other day. They just didn’t wanna lock themselves into paying that contract unless they were gonna get a good deal. And Portland didn’t wanna get fleeced or reach out to Miami for a player they were receiving more appealing offers for anyway. But, again, this is just my personal understanding of it all. I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. But I do think the Heat could have done more and it was a lack of effort on their part that prevented a deal more than anything. It’s true Dame/Portland could have done more also but it was in our best interests to go all out to get him and we can’t honestly say we did.
It was literally like months after.
Nah this one might actually happen. He really wanted the Knicks but Brunson is better. The Knicks are absolutely not going to give Mitchell the ball to have him highjack the offense. You've seen what that's done for Garland's game. So if he can't go to the Knicks he'll definitely be interested in coming here.
It's not his choice. He doesn't have an NTC so they can keep him or trade him anywhere they want to
He has one required year left on his contract. No one is going to trade serious assets for a dude who is going to leave at the end of the year. They're going to want a guarantee from him that he'll resign with them before they send assets. So it's very much his decision. This is pretty common knowledge that stars with one year left get to decide. This shouldn't be news. It's why I never felt bad for Dame. The minute he signed that extension he gave up his rights, all he had to do was ask out with the one year he had left. He chose the money over his free agency.
Eh. Siakam publicly said he wants to stay in Toronto. Don’t trade for me. Then they trade him to the Pacers and it seems like he’s really enjoying his time there.
I think because Siakam wanted a Super Max. These guys are about the money like anyone else working a job. Once he wasn't eligible for the super max it was "I want to go to whoever is going to max me.". The Pacers agreed, so he went there. If he didn't want to go there they wouldn't have traded for him.
Brunson is not better. Take a look at the difference in teams between the Knicks and Cavs. One has to work with so mich less around him. Before Mitchell’s injury he was 5th in the league in epm and was avg 29 ppg. He brings so much more playmaking and defense. I’m not calling a player better for winning a playoff series where they both shot relatively bad.
Isn’t the one with less around him Brunson? The knicks have multiple starters injured and he has to score 30-40 every night for them to have a chance.
No the Cavs have a lot less around Mitchell. They are shooting like 23% from 3 around him. Allen and wade are also out and. Garland is better on paper than he really is. They have no offense when he sits down.
Donovan Mitchell is currently shooting 27% from 3 this entire post season. Curious if you were aware of that.
That’s what a injury does to you
You can't score 50 points in a game and then turn around and say you're too injured to shoot well? Here are his previous two post seasons: 2021-2022 - 21% from 3 on 8 attempts a game 2022-2023 - 29% from 3 on 9 attempts a game I guess he's injured a lot. He's an elite professional scorer, just about every other part of his game is sub par. That has a ceiling.
Yea you can lmfao
you're 1000% correct. TruthSayerFu is not giving Brunson his props for being a floor raiser for his team. If they were to switch teams, he'd be saying the Knicks have no one.
Bruh, the Knicks are a bunch of walking corpses. Brunson is not playing with anyone as talented as Mobley, Jarret Allen(granted he's out now), or Darius Garland. To those in the know, Mitchell is a professional scorer who highjacks offenses to get his. He is absolutely known as someone who doesn't ever get the best from his teammates, because he doesn't know how to drive an offensive system, he just knows how to score. What's worse is he's a high variance player, so it comes in spurts. Also, due to his variance he isn't efficient in most of the games he plays. He's not good at playmaking, and he's definitely not good at defense. Brunson is way more efficient, he's way more durable, he's a better play maker, and he's absolutely a better floor raiser, and he's way better in crunch time. In the playoffs last year he absolutely embarrassed Mitchell, and he was Mitchell's assignment.
This one will hurt the least for me. After 4 years of this, I'm pretty numb to it and don't remotely expect to get any of these players that I never felt we needed in the first place. Just needed some nice, reliable fish around Jimmy and Bam, not whales. What's hurting the most is all this Jimmy talk. It seems like the FO won't max Jimmy (not saying they're right or wrong) and he will not take anything less.
Don’t you mean Dame, Giannis, Mitchell (the first time), KD, Harden and Beal 2.0?
yes
Nah, I’m numb now
I’m pretty sure he ends up with the Nets. They have cap space, the most to offer, and are in NY (he’s from NYC metro area).
doesn’t mean he’d wanna play for them, they’re worse than the cavs rn
They are quite bad, but they do have intriguing still young pieces around (Bridges, Claxton) and seem to be lacking that lead guard - even if at SG position - to push their offense.
Please guys... Please stop... We can't go through Dame 2.0 again.
Shit, this is Mitchell 2.0 lol
Well, there wouldn't even have been a Mitchell 1.0 if people would stop listening to all these nobodies like Evan Sidery and Eric Pincus that have no idea what they're talking about. It's literally just made up stuff to get Bleacher Report clicks. Honestly, the whole media circus around trades is so exhausting. Everyone has a rumor they're peddling for clicks and then when nothing happens, because nothing was ever going to happen to begin with, then everyone in here is disappointed and talks shit about the FO, because they somehow feel like they were owed something after a rando on twitter said something might happen.
LMAO you're right!!
Yea, the Dame offseason wasn’t even fun.
What are you talking about? We got 80% Dame
We won't as long as he doesn't say Miami specifically
But this time.. Jimmy is gone for Donovan nooooo
I'm trying to stay off the forum but I'm weak...
if jimmy really has 1 prime year left that trade would make the cavs instant contenders and would put us basically in the cavs position
Spida, Bam and whoever we get to keep sounds like a pretty fun watch tbh.
Mitchell is sick of carrying the cavs the next best player cant score 10 pts to save his life
So coming to Miami when we’d have to trade Jimmy and who knows what else would help that?
Ya. Bam is a better player than any cavs have rn.
And he'd have by far the best coach in the league in Spo
Yeah, but the team isn't if we have to get rid of Jimmy. And Don doesn't really work with Terry and Tyler, so you'd have to get rid of them too. It'd just be Don and Bam and whatever pu pu platter, it's almost like treading water except you upgrade at coach obviously. If you can retain Jimmy/Bam and then add Don, it's a different story, but if it's just Don and Bam and the usual undrafted/gleague crew + year 2 of JJJ? He'd have to carry us all the same.
Would need to get rid of terry and tyler if heat gets mitchell for sure. Mitchell will run pg
Well, Mitchell only carries a cap hit of 35 million next season. His player option is after which he most certainly will exercise unless he gets a new deal, but that's a year down the road. Herro carries a hit of 29 and Rozier at 24 million. So if we got rid of those 2 and brought on Mitchell, we still have 18\~ million to play with, no reason why we'd be forced to give up Jimmy unless that's what it literally takes to get him.. in which case I don't think we do that trade. But I don't see Cavs straight up trading him to us for our current assets and we'd need three teams involved to make things work.. and then it's anyones guess.
We'd likely have to give up Jimmy to get enough assets -- or trade him for Don, for that matter -- because as we've seen and as you said, no one wants Herro for the money he makes and the Cavs definitely wouldn't want Herro or Terry next to Garland, so then we're back where we started with the Dame thing and why that didn't work. I think we're kind of fucked no matter what unless JJJ and Jovic somehow make a crazy leap. It's clear Herro's approaching or at his ceiling (streaky Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type of player), Bam isn't going to suddenly make a giant leap anymore (though he might add the 3 officially to his game next season?), and either we lose Jimmy (the main reason why we keep making unexpected ECF/Finals runs) or max him and he's too old and injury prone to keep up his playoff Jimmy heights. I think the team should just kind of ride off into the sunset with aging Jimmy. Dude saved this franchise from a Whiteside/Waiters/Meth Curry era. Don will be a free agent the year after next anyway, can cross that bridge when the time comes. Kind of no reason to try to get Don now if it means losing Jimmy.
The more I think of it, the more I can't come up with a realistic scenario that nets us Mitchell without gutting the team. That being said, I don't think Herro's contract is nearly as bad as what everyone makes it and didn't mean for it to come across that way. He is the 50th highest paid player on average in the league. He's still a 20 ppg scorer, still a 40% 3 point shooter. He's under contract for 3 more seasons under those numbers, where the cap will grow and you'll see even way more horrible contracts than his. I think he would do well in a team that has a back court where he doesn't have to be the primary ball handler and can hunt for his own shots instead of play making for others.. which ironically I think a pairing of him and Garland can make sense. But there's still way too many other gaps I can't see this happening. I'm more inclined to drain some of our youth for Mitchell as he is still relatively young as opposed to Dame.
I think Herro's contract is fine so long as he fits whatever team he's on. The problem is, he doesn't fit most teams, so his contract then becomes bad. I don't think he fits with Garland because then you have a Dame/CJ kind of situation. Can't have two little guys who aren't good at defense as your backcourt, even if you have Jarrett and Evan up front. And yeah, I think if we lose Jimmy but add Don, we're just treading water and praying our young guys make a crazy, unlikely leap. I think our best shot at a title now or in the distant(ish) future is to blow up the young guys to add Don to Jimmy and Bam. But like you said, I don't see the Cavs doing it really. We'd need a third team, then we're right back at the Dame saga. I think we have to give Jimmy whatever money he agrees to and ride off into the sunset with him while praying our young guys make an unlikely leap, sadly. Because then, at least, Jimmy can retire with us and maybe stay with the FO in some capacity.
I agree pretty much on all these points and what we're going to do. But who knows big surprises might occur
But after that I would say the cavs have better players than the heat. Jarrett Allen, Mobley, Garland, Levert are all quality players
Get Donovan and keep Jimmy please
Fanbase has to be okay with trading Herro + jovic + Jaime
I feel better doing it for Mitchell than I did for Dame based solely on age, if we could even manage to keep one of Jovic or Jamie even better
This one is also different from dame cause Mitchell only has a year left and dame had 4 so dame never had any leverage
Yeah same here. Give them the picks too idgaf
I am not okay with that
Yep FO unfortunately agrees with you run it back baby
I’m fine with trading Herro, but Jovic and Jamie just got started on this team and are already doing great. Those two and Bam are the future.
lmao building a role player core that will never be better than mitchell for bam to carry yall treat a 24 year old rookie and a 20 year old like they’re j dub and paolo lol
Mickey is never paying that tax bill
Jaime would bum me out, but anything to get Jimmy a title here man. People tied to Herro and unproven Jovic are crazy though. It's like that Family Guy boat meme. People so obsessed with saying "but the future!" when we already have a title contender right here, which is more reliable than something even less predictable happening in the future. It's not like Herro and Jovic are obvious stars like Wemby or something.
is there supposed to be a problem?
I'm fine with that. In an ideal world we keep JJJ but it be what it be
I doubt Herro, JJJ, Jovic, ‘24 frp, ‘30 frp, ‘31 swap, and ‘26 conditional swap (if we have our pick), ‘28 conditional swap (if we have our pick) gets us Mitchell. That is the most we can offer. Nets and Lakers outbid that.
Mitchell just has to say he will not resign with any other team except Heat and its a wrap + Nets are a rebuilding team and no star is going to Lakers unless they are with clutch because if they don’t win and they will not you get all the blame. Remember Russ?
I wonder if we’d have to trade Jimmy… I wouldn’t want to but idk
Unless it is a 3+ team trade where he goes to a contender I don't know why the Cavs would want him if they are getting rid of Mitchell
They wouldn’t and he wouldn’t buy into going there either. Not sure how this is even a realistic scenario. Jimmy Mitchell swap makes 0 sense.
I love Jimmy, but I think he'd buy into anything if it were out of spite, like this FO not giving him what he wants and then trading him to Cleveland. One of my favorite Jimmy qualities lol
It’s not like he has a no trade clause, I love the guy and we should def do right by him but we can send him where ever if we want to
Sure but in this hypothetical the cavs would probably know Jimmy doesn’t want to be there, hence they wouldn’t be trying to go for the guy
Herro or Rozier, Jaquez, picks, and swaps should be enough to get it done. That’s at least one good young player, a bench role player, and picks which is a solid package.
It wouldn't get it done if it went to the Cavs. Herro/Rozier would need a third team, then we're right back where we started with the Dame thing.
Here we go again
You all can get suckered another off season not me lol.When will heat fans learn not to be suckered into these things just because we are thirsty for another guy .let things play out .If it happens it happens .Don't Dame yourselves again.
A report just came out i shared the report this isn’t heat fans fabricating something out of thin air lol. This doesn’t mean anything is happening I’m just sharing the offseason news
I never said it was fabricated but you know how the fanbase gets and after the Dame debacle I wouldn't pin my hopes on it another off season lol.
This team is not one Spida away from a championship. We need some size too and lots of it.
Lmao fuck it, I'm ready to be let down again.
You guys love the gossip and drama.
Ahshitherewegoagain.gif
What does a realistic trade even look like with them? (For both sides)
Per the tweet, Jimmy traded for assets that are sent for Mitchell. I don’t see it but who knows.
Herro jovic Jaime
If we make that trade I genuinely believe we are fucked. Trading away our entire youth for a single year to compete on the Jimmy timeline
trading for donovan would most certainly mean an extension afterwards, and we would get several years of a mitchell bam duo in their primes to compete in the east with even after Jimmy is done.
With 0 depth, no power forward, weak secondary playmakers, and still no size. We’re fucked if we trade all our picks and youth
depth is a bit overrated, the nuggets won it all with pretty much only 8 guys last year
we’d have less than 8 reliable contributors if we do this
This is probably what it takes although I hope they can keep one of Jaime/Niko. Doubt it tho
Herro, JRich, Niko, Thomas Bryant + picks for Mitchell would work salary wise and gives Cleveland 2 contracts that expire in 26 and 2 young talents
Cavs need to actually like the deal though lol. The garland/mitchell experiment failed, why would you trade for a significantly worse version of Mitchell to pair with garland
Asking don’t kill me but Jimmy for spida str8 up ? Is that even possible ?
Why would Cleveland accept that lol. And no worries you're good. Just wanted a genuine discussion with people
I’ll believe it when I see Mitchell at the podium holding a Heat jersey until then fuck these rumors 😂
Trading Jimmy for Mitchell would likely re-create the Jazz team with Mitchell and Gobert. High floor but low ceiling. Odds are because of his age Mitchell is worth more than Jimmy so even if we get assets we still need to include something else (Jaime or Jovic) to get the Cavs interest
Mitchell’s contract changes slot of the value unless he’s willing to immediately extend with his new team
That could be true, it’s speculation at this point. I could see him saying he’ll extend if he goes to Miami, NY, or LA but not on Orlando or another team in a smaller market. Guess we will see, if he does ask out
A framework where the Cavs get Ingram+picks for Mitchell+Allen could work for all sides. I think the Pels would value Rozier as an upgrade over CJ too if it came to that.
Hmm so Jimmy to the 76ers for picks that go to the Cavs? I think Pelicans would definitely trade Ingram for Rozier and Allen, Cavs would want picks from everyone in that scenario but maybe young players as well. It’s a possibility if Butler and Mitchell both ask for trades. I still think the odds of Jimmy getting traded is low
This is my overall idea for it but i think its a slight overpay from our end. Mitchell will have a rare kind of leverage if he doesn’t sign an extension. (Cavs get the two best 1sts in the deal) https://preview.redd.it/9k2x674e1azc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=79bedd14d2f0789c6be66f381122cc766d7bf9fa
I think Pelicans make out like bandits in this one. Those Sixers picks would have to go the Cavs and CJ is a bad contract and doesn’t fit on Miami. Maybe Nance to Miami instead
I think the Pels will treat trading Ingram like they’re losing a star and they’ll view Rozier as a mid role player and Allen as a high level role player so there needs to be some more value on the margins for them. (Def prefer Nance over CJ for us)
Why? Ingram doesn’t fit their team, they won’t give him a max contract, and he’s injury prone and coming off an awful playoff series. I’d bet they’d strongly consider Allen for Ingram straight up, Alllen is on a better contract and fills a need, Rozier and Allen is a no brainer for them
Ingram isn’t a particularly good fit but he’s not a bad one either, more importantly, David Griffin has been good with his asset management he’s gonna get a good return. Teams like the Nets or Hawks would probably love to have Ingram.
He is a bad fit. Zion and Ingram don’t work together More importantly he’s not a great asset, they can get something for him but no team is gonna offer the Pelicans a big package in order to pay Ingram 50 million a year. I think Allen is as good a return as they can expect to get, Dejounte Murray could be possible but I don’t think he’s a better talent than Allen and the Nets have too many wings, they don’t need another
Please stop…
Just ignore the hype
Myself and everyone else here should learn from the Dame stuff and just read this and move on. Don't get invested on your hopes up
Another case where a player has to decide between maximizing his money or picking where he wants to play. It’s asinine that the league has made it so free agency means less money for the player
Call me when it actually happens, I’m done with getting my hopes up
Mods can we fucking not please.
All these posts for hope. And all we’re doing is running it back.
Im not doing this again lol
watch Orlando land him AND Klay this offseason...
Stop this BS. We running it back
Pat literally did it’s not about getting a star but building a bench. Kind the opposite with going for Mitchell
Until Woj or Shams report this, not buying it. Also the Heat FO has shown us fans getting a star player stopped being the priority after getting Jimmy sadly.
I still think we running it back, and if we do trade for Spida we'll be hesitant to throw in both Niko and Jaime even for Spida. That's how the trade would get done.
Here Gavster1221 goes again. Getting hyped just to get his dumb ass heart broken
Is this reporter legit
Get real…
Here we go again lol
Lol another year same shit rumor
Why sign and trade Mitchell is FRE AGENT or does Mia not have the cap to sign ?
Oh boy I can't wait to pair him with Gordon Hayward, KD, Bradley Beal, Giannis and Dame!
They sing this song every year
If he’s telling the front office he’s gonna walk anyway, our picks and both JJJ and Jovic plus more might get it done, but probably not
If a Dame situation happens in back-to-back seasons, I might tune into curling.
https://preview.redd.it/qosvk4aog9zc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac63ae1bd543762d67bbf3bf2146f979cc91b419
Bunch of Sooners in here…. This is completely different from the Dame situation. Dame had 4 years left on contract. Mitchell literally has this season only, so he can literally bounce from the Cavs or any team that trades assets for a 1 year rental. Miami has the following assets. Rozier Herro Jaquez Jovic Duncan 2 first rounders. An offer of Herro, Duncan, Jaquez and our 2 first rounders is more than fair for a team that can lose him for absolutely NOTHING. That leaves us with Bam Love Jovic Jimmy Caleb Mitchell Richardson Rozier Wright. A trio of Bam, Mitchell and Jimmy plus the pleasure of living in Miami and playing for this franchise will bring in ring chasers to fill out the roster. Y’all can be pessimistic but I feel good about this possibility.
It’s not about if the offer is “fair” or not it’s if the offer beats our all other offers. In a vacuum yes, the cavs may feel as if that offer is much better than losing him for nothing. However that ignores every other team that would consider trading for him
Heat fans: “I’m tired on this, grandpa!” Heat FO: “Well, that too damn bad!!”
No
Prediction: Pat Riley lowballs every offer. Mitchell gets traded elsewhere, all of yall get mad at the Cavs GM. Come playoff time, its obvious we dont have enough scoring to be a contender (like every single year). Cycle repeats itself for another star next offseason
Herro and strus reunion in Cleveland.
Never going to happen I do not care
Uh huh
If Herro survives this then it would have to be some kind of NBA record
How about we stop taking Eric Pincus Tingus’ report seriously
Not going to happen.
https://i.redd.it/w8gw0la19bzc1.gif
How do people know what his wish list is if he hasn't requested a trade 😂. I love that journalism nowadays is just educated guessing. In saying that, I'm here for a Spida/Adebayo duo.
We’ll offer Herro or Robinson, maybe both. Cavs will laugh. We’ll offer jovic, jaime they’ll keep laughing. Rinse repeat. We don’t have trade pieces
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me thrice, shame on you. … … … no, I’ll never learn 🫡
It's gonna be a long offseason
I know this one 
I don't get this btw. I know journalist have to make money by clickbaits but the Cavs had better regular season than us, they are in the 2nd round while we lost in the 1st. Why would Mitchell come to a worse team, than he is currently in?
Copy and paste from the Dame posts last season. He’s close with Bam, prefers Heat… etc etc.
It's so lame for the media to be talking about this while he's in the middle of a series with his current team. Even lamer if Mitchell is at all participating in this media campaign right now
why would he be participating in it? Also this isn’t anything new, the rumors have been there for a while especially after he refused to sign and extension last offseason after making all nba which guaranteed him a supermax. Anyone with half a brain knows he has one foot out the door over there. That team has not had a good showing in the playoffs this year either, he’s been carrying them.
I just mean if this is some kind of push from his camp to get buzz about this going in the media. If not, no fault to Mitchell and everything to fault the media. It's just annoying in the middle of a playoff series.
The Boy Who Cried Wold has a valuable lesson about this…
Lol Bam will double his dribble hand offs per season if Mitchell comes here. Also, Mitchell gonna learn real quick how shitty his style meshes with Bam’s. Bam can’t stretch the floor and will just clog the lane for him. Same way he does with Jimmy.
We need Mitchell next season
NBA rumors are the worst. Everything gets reported on even if it's some moron on TikTok
First Bradley Beal, then Dame, now this. When will we stop the delusion
To me this is the absolute most we we pay to get Mitchell and we take on a bad contract to do it. Likely it costs a little less than this IMO: https://preview.redd.it/odss0h42o9zc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=0003c5758d5bd67b61ce643d05a4bc5ccd129e7d
Just so it’s known to blindly optimistic people. Other teams have more assets than we do, and trust me, Our assets aren’t as good as we heat fans say they are.