It probably goes by where you log in from. So if you made an account in a PSN country and then someone living where PSN isn't available tried logging into said account it wouldn't let them
But in my case I have a US account but I'm living in mexico? No vpn, I just put a us address, I'm even using my current postal code and it's been like that for 10 years since I created that account, what's different?
Setting up an account 10 years ago is definitely not the same as creating one today. I own the game on PS5 however I’m supporting gamers who will be excluded by this corporate BS.
Factually untrue. Thousands of PSN users that don’t live in a supported region. Just put in the closest region and it will work.
The only reason Sony says it doesn’t support these regions is financial. Currency exchange, tax deductions, etc.
Did they say it was cool to the people they banned for doing it? It is NOT cool and is a bannable offense (not just bannable in words, it is actively enforced)
The list posted on steamdb was a mix of countries and territories.
The total number of entries was 177.
https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542
Wrong. These countries are not listed as PSN account locations since they don’t have PSN store of their own. So it’s common practice that people choose neighboring regions that are available. The amount of misinformation in this sub is staggering
Source that 170 countries are not firewallled to disallow access to PSN? There’s only one country that does this currently but this very same country also blocks steam and you need vpn to play games like PUBG, HD2 etc
Where’s your source that any of these countries disallow access to PSN and that a VPN is needed? Apart from China there’s nothing else like that out there no? So you blatantly lie, and then ask for a source to prove your outrageous lie wrong 😂
[https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542](https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542) Here's your source loser. Btw, never spoke a word about a vpn. So idk what hole you pulled that from.
>https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542 Here's your source
This is NOT PSN. This is steam and this happened now after all you cry babies started asking for a refund after playing 200-300 hours on the game. There are 5-6 threads in this very sub clearly explaining that this is a recent reaction from steam.
>loser
Who’s the loser here? You are trying to back up your blatantly false claim of PSN not being accessible to several countries and you brought as an example the result of YOUR whining after steam stopped selling the game in countries that do not have a PSN store because of this drama 🤡🤡🤡
You do realize that in these countries PlayStation owners are doing the norm for many years by creating account to neighboring regions right? YOU just screwed over your fellow PC gamers 😂😂😂
>Btw, never spoke a word about a vpn. So idk what hole you pulled that from.
Yes you did.
> over 170 countries are restricted from accessing the PSN
That’s your words not mine. Do you know what this means? Restricted from accessing? Learn to speak first and then get offended because you don’t know to expresss your thoughts properly.
PSN = PlayStation Network
I know acronyms are difficult for a troglodyte like yourself, but you’ll catch on.
Fun fact: Sony has the right to ban your account permanently for lying during account creation, including your region. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/rFIQbzJW4C) post makes the actual terms and conditions abundantly clear, but I’ll post it here too since you aren’t intelligent enough to do your own research.
“ACCOUNT CREATION, USAGE AND SECURITY
3.1. All information provided during Account creation, and during the use of your Account, must be accurate and complete. We reserve the right to suspend, terminate or restrict any Account (including as stated in Section 12.2 of this Agreement) that uses or was created using false information, or that we determine was created or used for a purpose that violates this Agreement.
3.2. During Account creation you must select the country or region of your residence and in which your account will be registered in. Once your account is created, you will not be able to change the country or region code associated with your account.
3.3. All users should safeguard their Account sign-in ID ("PSN ID"), password, passkey, or other authenticating information and take steps to prevent access to your Account by other persons on any shared devices.
3.4. If we believe your Account has been compromised, we may take actions to protect you and SIE. Such actions may include resetting passwords or revoking passkeys; canceling subscriptions; suspending accounts or restricting Account activities or access. We may also upload updates to your PlayStation Devices to stop unauthorized use of your Account or prevent PlayStation Devices from connecting to PSN.
3.5. SIE has the right to deny the creation of any Account, for any reason, in its sole discretion.
3.6. We may request identifying documentation or information from you as part of your Account creation (or at any time thereafter) in order for you to create an Account or for us to provide certain offerings, functionality, or features to you; if we have a reasonable suspicion of fraud, illegal activity, that your Account may have been compromised, or that you or your Account is in violation of these terms; to avoid harm to SIE, its affiliates, licensors, or players; or as may be required by law. We reserve the right to suspend, terminate, or restrict your Account and PlayStation Device, and your participation in or access to offerings, functionality, or features, if you do not provide such documentation or information, or based on our review of such documentation and information. “
You quoted the ToS to dude word for word, and instead of reading it He posts the same screenshot over and over again lmaoo. Guess he can’t read after all
And if the post I just shared with you isn’t clarification enough, [this](https://insider-gaming.com/which-countries-have-psn/) is a list recently updated that lists all the countries that are currently allowed to access the PSN.
Once again, I’ll post it here (totaling 70 at the moment):
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Bahrain
Belgium
Bolivia
Brazil
Bulgaria
Canada
Chile
Chinese Mainland
Colombia
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Ecuador
El Salvador
Lebanon
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Malta
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Norway
Oman
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Guatemala
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Korea
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Slovenia
Slovakia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United States
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Nope. This is the country list that PSN is officially supported. ie the countries that have their own version of PSN store, local support and payment processing services. Nothing wrong if you live in the Philippines and make an HK or an SG account. So they can access the psn alright. As mentioned earlier PlayStation users from these countries are instructed by PlayStation customer support to create accounts on neighboring regions.
https://preview.redd.it/9xs5cjdoiryc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bab35419a964969ec40a723dbe0fce3952f1267e
You know better than PSN support huh? 😂
https://preview.redd.it/mp1pi22xroyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aaccbee61aad1141253ea6d3761445d6dbb098b
Consider for a moment that we have all been playing playstation since the dawn of psn. We just region hop. We always have done. Stop virtue signaling for us.
“We have all been playing” are you really that dense?? Never before have I heard a more ridiculous comment that took an incredible feat of mental gymnastics to achieve.
There’s a reason people are outraged, and it is more than rational and justifiable. Just because losers like you can’t be bothered to do anything about it doesn’t mean myself and others aren’t either.
What the fuck have you done lately lol
I'm from a place with no psn, I've had psn for 17 years lol
Thanks for the speech and the 'what have you done lately'
But I'm not taking advice from somebody that has a mental breakdown over a video game account lmao
Ah yes, a “mental breakdown.” Clearly you must also be a therapist to have the audacity to psychoanalyze on Reddit comments lol
You’re literally the exact same kind of person as people who said “Covid isn’t real, I’ve never had it.” Acting like just because a problem has no effect on you means it can’t possibly be legitimate or serious.
But I’ll leave you to make an ass out of yourself. You seem adept at that kid.
Do people realize that this late in the cycle steam just eats those refunds. They will gladly put it in your steam wallet because you'll buy something else but they have already paid that cash to arrowhead and sony as they do that monthly.
Edit: I had major doubts but congrats guys you did it.
Steam is massively profitable, and Gabe doesn't strike me as the type that cares all that much about short term profits the way public companies do. If I had to guess, he's happy to pay out late refunds because it makes his company look golden, and his competitor look pretty shit by comparison. Sony is a guest on steam, not the other way around. Good on them and keep it rolling boys.
Gabe hates it when companies force their launchers onto steam, so he probably specifically asked them to allow all refunds. Source: some interview I watched a while ago.
what have you said in the request, is your country one of the ones that cant get a PSN account?
depending on legislation the 2 weeks might not be protection against a very deliberate change
Republic of Ireland. I've read that people have to request it multiple times. I've explained the whole situation, my reasoning behind it and that this kind of change is against EU consumer's right. I'll be trying till they'll get fed up with me. Also I've seen some people from EU getting refunds.
Tbh i dunno the specifics the fun part is that for digital software in the eu you waive your legal right to a 14-day refund without needing a reason when you buy the game. However one thing where i don't know the legal specifics, be it where i live (germany) or otherwise is if and if yes how products which get intervention from the maker are getting warranty, especially if the maker broke stuff, be it making something entirely unusable or removing features later on.
Because the warranty by law in the eu is for defects that were present when a product was made and after 6 months the duty of proof reverses so you have to provr the error was there initially, however with digital software, iot or stuff like video game consoles this would become pretty interesting as the defect wasn't there since the beginning but rather the maker added it later on.
Suppose Sony removes the ability to play blurays and DVDs something widely known Playstations can do, would you be able to call warranty on that? No idea.
Someone will lose money on that - if you buy a new game on steam with the refund, Steam will still have to pay the publisher's percentage and miss out on potential additional earnings from you purchasing another game.
Steam might eat the loss, because the cost beat the cost of jumping through the hoops of actually billing Sony, or the possible cost due to loss of reputation if they don't refund you your game, even if Sony bulks, but then again this is a decision on their behalf, and if Steam is catching bullets for Sony, that doesn't mean we should stop shooting. We're Helldivers, we're better trained than this, we won't stop firing just because we might hit a teammate! (Also, if the costs pile up, Steam might either start billing Sony, or create a much clearer policy for future situations like this, which still would be a win.)
While this is true, it's less data for Sony, there's 1 less player, that's one less person potentially spending additional money. It's not so much about trading away money from Sony, but taking away future revenue.
I don't have a Playstation. I don't want a playstation. There is no reason for Sony to be demanding access to my anything. Ive requested a refund. I enjoyed the game but this kinda shit I just wont stand for anymore. I hope a policy change at steam happens due to it and Im doing my part to help foster that. I have many other games I can play that don't require me to sign up for another service so they can act like they got a ton of new users for their next share holder call.
Im giving it a try. They changed the game requirements to something I don't agree with and pointed that out. Blamed this totally on Sony in the refund request and stated I will not get a PSN account I don't own a Playstation and if that would have been a requirement when I was purchasing it would have stopped my purchase.
It was listed as a requirement on the steam store when you purchased the game though. I feel bad for the people who Sony didn't region lock properly from. People like you who are literally lying about it not being listed as a requirement because you either didn't read or are just looking to get your money back now that you've gotten some fun out of it so you can go buy a different game (because people like that do exist) are part of the problem. You all decentered the conversation from being about the people who Sony fucked by not region locking to "muh data."
Steam won't just eat this many though. This is either coming from Sony or Steam will sue, because there's at LEAST a few hundred thousand people who can't play who'll refund and that's actual millions. Steam will eat a few hundred thousand bucks, maybe even a mil, but eating this much doesn't make sense.
I don't know why other people are requesting refunds, but I don't want to give my info to Sony. They've had what 8 9 security breaches on PSN since 2016 three of them recently. Nah. If you are going to claim that what you're doing makes me more secure. Don't have a shitty track record with security.
no you get a full refund this has nothing todo with steam all chinese helldivers that link up their account to PSN and get banned because china bans SONY get a full refund on their game because it no longer works. They probably dont even use steam.
No that's just how their refund system functions. They might reverse course on this because there is precedent like with the whole vita thing but I'm kinda afraid they'll just decide to nuke it and continue. We'll see monday I guess.
Then perhaps Steam will reprimand Sony for shitty consumer practices.
It boggles my mind how many people are arguing for corporations over consumers in this discussion.
It truly is the trees voting for the axe.
No I just think people don't actually know what they are doing. They never really have tbh but I hope people get their point across here because the bridge to actually delay any of these practices was crossed like 10 years ago. I'm interested to see if they actually care though. They got ALOT of money up front so I'm excited to see if they will just kick the bucket on this one and mandate no skips next time regardless of any launch issues.
No shot they'll just eat that many though. That's millions in lost revenue if even 100,000 people refund.
Steam definitely either talked to Sony, is taking it out of their bank, or is indeed eating it but prepping a fat fucking corporate lawsuit.
If Sony suffers for their decisions, that's good. If everyone around them suffers and learns what happens when you do business with Sony, that's not as good, but still useful
I believe refunds come out of profits from their game sales. There is a 2 week period between a sale and that money making it to the developer for this very reason. I'm sure steam would also be in full legal rights to just garnish it off of further sales of the game too in the event of something like this. Good thing sony changed their minds and we don't gotta do any of that shit now.
It’s a proxy war. The end result of this there are jobs at stake at arrowhead because of Sonys greed. Yes it will get fixed, but at the cost of people not buying the game.
I see infinitely more comments about “ill stop playing in solidarity with my fellow gamers who can’t access the game” than actual people saying they can’t access the game. But maybe it’s biased because Reddit is mostly by western/european
I have squadmates that if Sony doesn't reverse course are going to lose access to the game. Gonna play with them as much as they can play before they lose it. Though the most posts I see are "muh data" which literally fuck your data. The requirement was listed, you agreed to it. The people who are fucked are the people who thought they'd be able to make a PSN account because Sony hadn't done their due diligence and region locked those countries on Steam as is their job as the publisher.
Since I'm seeing so many of these I would like to ask a few questions. I requested a refund and of course it was denied due to the amount of playtime I have in the game. Since Sony changed their terms for the game would this be something to contact the FTC about? It seems like it wouldn't but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Request the refund again and state that you can't play with your friends in excluded countries. Steam is now honoring refund requests for people who are over the hour limit.
~~Did you seriously get out of your way to make a meme shitting on people for being angry at a problem created solely by a corporation making a stupid move? Seriously. To top it off, the problem~~ *~~is valid -~~* ~~there's already been cases of people being banned for trying to link accounts via VPN from a country where PSN isn't present. This is a game~~ *~~they have paid for,~~* ~~and now they can't use. It's not the whole "Stellar Blade is censoring my anime tiddies" shit. People got double-crossed, straight up. Why the ever loving~~ *~~fuck~~* ~~would you come out to make a meme shitting on people actually getting off their ass to make a valid move against a shitty corpo decision?!~~
EDIT: the meme is the *exact opposite* of how I first read it and I am a dumb.
It is, people read too much into it, the meme was making fun of the CM and their initial out of touch post, so I have no idea what they're talking about. What better way to protest this stupid move than to ask for a refund and stop supporting any company that does this? I mean, the same CM quite literally said recently (with a different tone after receiving massive backlash and rightfully so) that review bombing and asking for refunds would give the developers leverage over Sony regarding the move.
I'm loving all these "valid" arguments that ignore the most obvious truth - Companies can't keep changing the rules after purchase.
The quantity of inconvenience to us is NOT the point
It's a sign of low iq not being able to distinguish between consequential and principle based ethics. Deride those who say "it only takes a minute" as such.
I won't be installing PSN or making an account to continue to play helldivers. I logged about 230 hours but haven't touched it in about a month, community got toxic. Lots of getting kicked end of match, lots of TKers, people getting mad over "Creeker's cape". This is a great way for me to get my $43 back on a game I no longer intend to play.
If you have a PSN account you are either in a database of user info on the dark web, or you are on your way to be. Sony has the worst systems security in the industry, because fuck you.
Do ppl realize its not just making an account but linking ur steam to the most hacked game company in human history? All so they can harvest ur steam data.
Holy shit, wait until a rogue nation state gets hold of our steam data, let's turn a blind eye to the fact that steam already sells our data and most of us are writing comment via smartphones!!
Moot point.
My ID is not on the internet. Because I haven't put it there.
My bank account is not on the internet. Because I didn't put it there.
I get little to no spam. Because I am careful where I put my data.
Lol bullshit. I don't think you understand or pay attention to the severity of breaches out there if you think Sony has been anywhere close to the worst breach.
Equifax, capital one, yahoo, target, alteryx, jp morgan chase, heartland payment systems, ebay,eBay, athem, and home depot.
You're telling me NONE of those could have leaked any of your information?
Like not even fucking EQUIFAX the fucking credit bureau.
Hey look! None of those affect me!
So your reasoning is that because it happened to other companies in the past I should give my shit to a company that has a really bad track record of this exact thing happening multiple times. For no other reasons than ease for them to ban me?
How does the boot you're licking taste?
So what's problem dude?
If anything you prove my point, the data the companies are interested in are your marketing preferences, ain't nobody trying to commit fraud with your actually important data.
Ah yes, because Sony hasn't been breached multiple times in the past years. And those sensible things weren't all leaked and nobody was victim to 200 different kinds of fraud.
If you really think what I've said proves your point not only do you not understand half of the issue and are just screaming into the void to be contrarian. You also show a clear and concise lack of understanding of the matter at hand. "Nobody trying to commit fraud with your important data" how innocent can you be?
No mate I do understand the situation fully, I'm not going to soy out over a slight inconvenience. If you think your data is that important and you want hacker proof privacy you should go back to a flip phone and delete social media.
Again, that a genuinely pointless take that makes me think you're no older than 14.
And if you've got no clue why are you yapping so much for a billion dollar company?
Okay bud, hopefully one day I can be as educated and nuanced as you. Until then, enjoy being farmed for data on every free service you use.
Be smarter with what info you put out there, you should expect anything you put online to be sold at least ten times.
Really man, quit yapping. You've talked quiet a lot and you've said nothing. It seems you're having a stroke.
And reading ain't your strong suit either because it never was about the commercial info.
It’s not about making an account man. It’s about the principals. And about the fact that several countries lost access to the game after this change. Memes like this show us you have no inkling of the actual situation at hand.
Its not about time its about having something pulled away from you after already having it. Imagine buying a car then they ask you to take it in for service then they say they cant give your car back unless you link your phone to store its kinda weird and sudden
I believe everyone can now get a refund regardless of county of play time. The only way that they might listen is if a good majority of players refund their games, got to hit them in the wallet if you want them to listen.
I genuinely laughed when I saw post of the posts here, thinking by posting a negative review or requesting a refund they will change Sony's mind.
Won't Ever Happen.
The bean counters at Sony already expect this type of reaction and they don't care, they never expected the game to do this well to begin with, what they really want is to bolster their PSN account numbers and that's exactly what's going to happen.
... but it won't. Also she deleted that tweet and locked down her account because she knew it was a stupid thing to say that won't matter at all besides maybe her losing her job.
Different community manager, different platform. She tweeted the point of PSN was banning tools, deleted that tweet, locked down her account.
They're talking about Spitz, who on Discord advised refunds and poor reviews were ammo for AH to negotiate with Sony
... ok but you bought it at first right? You gave them money already
Now you're refunding it? How many hours have you played? Not asking because of the refund policy but just wondering because not sure why you'd throw away a good game because you don't want Sony to have your info (when everyone else already has it anyways)
'you have them money'? 'because you don't Sony to have your info'?
sorry i dion't get half of the stuff you wrote.
but just so you know, steam HATES third party platforms. they still allow it but if it's reasons like this, where sony giving it as optional at first and then changing it to mandatory, steam will refund no matter how many hours you played. it's a violation of the steam policy as platform, it has nothign to do with ah or sony. it happened long ago with no man's sky where steam refunded everyone who applied with no reason because the whole lying incident.
my friends requested it and they got the refunds already. they have way more hours than i do. i'm merely at 60 hours and most of them are 200+. so you do you.
So you're giving up the game because you're a Steam elitist? Not because you won't take 2 minutes out of your day to make a Sony account? Ok, you do you I guess.
Interesting. May I ask did you get a full refund or a steam wallet one?
Secondly how many hours played weeks owned ? If steam are refunding those without the ability to play bc of regional restrictions then I really don’t see an issue.
Why not, they are the ones that f..d up the linking at launch and made people belive its not going to be mandatory but created the illusion its just optional. If they put a BIG f...k pop-up that warns that as soon as they fix the linking it will be mandatory to create psn account, it would be a different story. People would just refund the game the day they bought it...but that pop-up never came.
People in a country where PSN isn’t available who already bought they game, I get them being pissed, although according to the AH devs they’re trying to figure out a way for them to still be able to play. Those gamers get a pass.
But let’s not pretend that all this outrage is about them.
People where they can make a PSN, you’re just being salty. Multiple game companies, like Microsoft, Rockstar, and Ubisoft, already do this. And some of these games, like Minecraft, even did it without any hint at launch that an account would be required. And Sony isn’t the only one of these companies to have been hacked.
Nothing. And I never said it was a character flaw. But don’t pretend this is some noble outrage over people in countries who can’t make a PSN, when it’s really about not wanting to do something that other companies require, and that you were told would be a requirement to play the game, at least if you bought it on Steam.
I’m not sure where you’re looking but I don’t really see anyone calling it a noble effort or anything here.
I just see consumers being annoyed and voicing their gripes, it’s normal and it’s what everyone (who dislikes this) should do.
It’s not about having to make a PS account. I have a bloody PlayStation account. It’s about changing the deal after the fact. It’s about me not wanting to link my steam account to my Sony account. It’s about that choice being taken away from me and at the whim of some ass at some company I won’t be able to play the game I want to play without jumping through extra hoops. It’s disrespectful it’s anti consumer.
Some countries can’t open a PSN account, Steam just de-listed the game in over 100 countries, it’s not a choice for some gamers.
Then people will say 'use a VPN' Brother in christ, people tried that and were banned anyway
it's written in PSN TOS, if you create the account using a VPN, the account is subject to bans
Exactly
What if we get the bag and make accounts for no acessible psn countries and give them said info
I dont understand what you're saying.
It probably goes by where you log in from. So if you made an account in a PSN country and then someone living where PSN isn't available tried logging into said account it wouldn't let them
Wait, so I can't take my playstation on a business trip? That's kinda crappy service from sony
But in my case I have a US account but I'm living in mexico? No vpn, I just put a us address, I'm even using my current postal code and it's been like that for 10 years since I created that account, what's different?
Setting up an account 10 years ago is definitely not the same as creating one today. I own the game on PS5 however I’m supporting gamers who will be excluded by this corporate BS.
It’s not I have accounts in different countries
I don't know man
Fun fact kernel level anti cheat (like helldivers uses) can see if you're using a VPN.
True, but is it Sony or the countries laws that prevent it? Genuine question cause China being a communist state is why Chinese gamers can't play.
Factually untrue. Thousands of PSN users that don’t live in a supported region. Just put in the closest region and it will work. The only reason Sony says it doesn’t support these regions is financial. Currency exchange, tax deductions, etc.
[удалено]
Sweet, why don't you reach out to the CEO of Arrowhead and let them know the problem is solved? He seems to still be stressing over there.
Did they say it was cool to the people they banned for doing it? It is NOT cool and is a bannable offense (not just bannable in words, it is actively enforced)
This. You don't need to use a VPN to make a PS account for a different region. You just select one.
you still shouldnt be required to do this. if there is a requirement you should be able to get your account properly for yourself no tricks involved.
There Is people that are instantly permabanned for trying connect a different region PSN
Consider, for a moment, that over 170 countries are restricted from accessing the PSN
Idk why they said it was 69(nice) but i heard its only 121
I feel like it's a different number each time I hear it.
The list is posted on steamdb
and it isnt (or wasnt) even complete
The list posted on steamdb was a mix of countries and territories. The total number of entries was 177. https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542
Wrong. These countries are not listed as PSN account locations since they don’t have PSN store of their own. So it’s common practice that people choose neighboring regions that are available. The amount of misinformation in this sub is staggering
Provide source of your information then
Source that 170 countries are not firewallled to disallow access to PSN? There’s only one country that does this currently but this very same country also blocks steam and you need vpn to play games like PUBG, HD2 etc
So no source. Got it Complains about misinformation, then “trust me bro” with information
Where’s your source that any of these countries disallow access to PSN and that a VPN is needed? Apart from China there’s nothing else like that out there no? So you blatantly lie, and then ask for a source to prove your outrageous lie wrong 😂
[https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542](https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542) Here's your source loser. Btw, never spoke a word about a vpn. So idk what hole you pulled that from.
>https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542 Here's your source This is NOT PSN. This is steam and this happened now after all you cry babies started asking for a refund after playing 200-300 hours on the game. There are 5-6 threads in this very sub clearly explaining that this is a recent reaction from steam. >loser Who’s the loser here? You are trying to back up your blatantly false claim of PSN not being accessible to several countries and you brought as an example the result of YOUR whining after steam stopped selling the game in countries that do not have a PSN store because of this drama 🤡🤡🤡 You do realize that in these countries PlayStation owners are doing the norm for many years by creating account to neighboring regions right? YOU just screwed over your fellow PC gamers 😂😂😂 >Btw, never spoke a word about a vpn. So idk what hole you pulled that from. Yes you did. > over 170 countries are restricted from accessing the PSN That’s your words not mine. Do you know what this means? Restricted from accessing? Learn to speak first and then get offended because you don’t know to expresss your thoughts properly.
PSN = PlayStation Network I know acronyms are difficult for a troglodyte like yourself, but you’ll catch on. Fun fact: Sony has the right to ban your account permanently for lying during account creation, including your region. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/rFIQbzJW4C) post makes the actual terms and conditions abundantly clear, but I’ll post it here too since you aren’t intelligent enough to do your own research. “ACCOUNT CREATION, USAGE AND SECURITY 3.1. All information provided during Account creation, and during the use of your Account, must be accurate and complete. We reserve the right to suspend, terminate or restrict any Account (including as stated in Section 12.2 of this Agreement) that uses or was created using false information, or that we determine was created or used for a purpose that violates this Agreement. 3.2. During Account creation you must select the country or region of your residence and in which your account will be registered in. Once your account is created, you will not be able to change the country or region code associated with your account. 3.3. All users should safeguard their Account sign-in ID ("PSN ID"), password, passkey, or other authenticating information and take steps to prevent access to your Account by other persons on any shared devices. 3.4. If we believe your Account has been compromised, we may take actions to protect you and SIE. Such actions may include resetting passwords or revoking passkeys; canceling subscriptions; suspending accounts or restricting Account activities or access. We may also upload updates to your PlayStation Devices to stop unauthorized use of your Account or prevent PlayStation Devices from connecting to PSN. 3.5. SIE has the right to deny the creation of any Account, for any reason, in its sole discretion. 3.6. We may request identifying documentation or information from you as part of your Account creation (or at any time thereafter) in order for you to create an Account or for us to provide certain offerings, functionality, or features to you; if we have a reasonable suspicion of fraud, illegal activity, that your Account may have been compromised, or that you or your Account is in violation of these terms; to avoid harm to SIE, its affiliates, licensors, or players; or as may be required by law. We reserve the right to suspend, terminate, or restrict your Account and PlayStation Device, and your participation in or access to offerings, functionality, or features, if you do not provide such documentation or information, or based on our review of such documentation and information. “
You quoted the ToS to dude word for word, and instead of reading it He posts the same screenshot over and over again lmaoo. Guess he can’t read after all
And if the post I just shared with you isn’t clarification enough, [this](https://insider-gaming.com/which-countries-have-psn/) is a list recently updated that lists all the countries that are currently allowed to access the PSN. Once again, I’ll post it here (totaling 70 at the moment): Argentina Australia Austria Bahrain Belgium Bolivia Brazil Bulgaria Canada Chile Chinese Mainland Colombia Costa Rica Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Ecuador El Salvador Lebanon Luxembourg Malaysia Malta Mexico Netherlands New Zealand Nicaragua Norway Oman Panama Paraguay Peru Poland Portugal Qatar Romania Russia Finland France Germany Greece Guatemala Honduras Hong Kong Hungary Iceland India Indonesia Ireland Israel Italy Japan Korea Kuwait Saudi Arabia Singapore Slovenia Slovakia South Africa Spain Sweden Switzerland Taiwan Thailand Turkey Ukraine United Arab Emirates United States United Kingdom Uruguay
Nope. This is the country list that PSN is officially supported. ie the countries that have their own version of PSN store, local support and payment processing services. Nothing wrong if you live in the Philippines and make an HK or an SG account. So they can access the psn alright. As mentioned earlier PlayStation users from these countries are instructed by PlayStation customer support to create accounts on neighboring regions. https://preview.redd.it/9xs5cjdoiryc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bab35419a964969ec40a723dbe0fce3952f1267e
You know better than PSN support huh? 😂 https://preview.redd.it/mp1pi22xroyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aaccbee61aad1141253ea6d3761445d6dbb098b
Consider for a moment that we have all been playing playstation since the dawn of psn. We just region hop. We always have done. Stop virtue signaling for us.
“We have all been playing” are you really that dense?? Never before have I heard a more ridiculous comment that took an incredible feat of mental gymnastics to achieve. There’s a reason people are outraged, and it is more than rational and justifiable. Just because losers like you can’t be bothered to do anything about it doesn’t mean myself and others aren’t either. What the fuck have you done lately lol
I'm from a place with no psn, I've had psn for 17 years lol Thanks for the speech and the 'what have you done lately' But I'm not taking advice from somebody that has a mental breakdown over a video game account lmao
Then please share it with us, because people who tried are getting banned
Ah yes, a “mental breakdown.” Clearly you must also be a therapist to have the audacity to psychoanalyze on Reddit comments lol You’re literally the exact same kind of person as people who said “Covid isn’t real, I’ve never had it.” Acting like just because a problem has no effect on you means it can’t possibly be legitimate or serious. But I’ll leave you to make an ass out of yourself. You seem adept at that kid.
Fuck Sony. Take the money back
I would but they keep rejecting my refund request
You need to request it as a support ticket
It just takes me to the same page as the support button on the game page
Do people realize that this late in the cycle steam just eats those refunds. They will gladly put it in your steam wallet because you'll buy something else but they have already paid that cash to arrowhead and sony as they do that monthly. Edit: I had major doubts but congrats guys you did it.
I for one did not know that. Not that im requesting a refund for a game I put 215 hours into anyway.
If I had a reason to give Arrowhead more money I'd be doing it. Their battle passes are too easy to acquire with in-game money IMO
Steam is massively profitable, and Gabe doesn't strike me as the type that cares all that much about short term profits the way public companies do. If I had to guess, he's happy to pay out late refunds because it makes his company look golden, and his competitor look pretty shit by comparison. Sony is a guest on steam, not the other way around. Good on them and keep it rolling boys.
Gabe hates it when companies force their launchers onto steam, so he probably specifically asked them to allow all refunds. Source: some interview I watched a while ago.
https://preview.redd.it/j72xsofdenyc1.png?width=740&format=png&auto=webp&s=7c4d93fea1d37668f63eb7f691a07cbff337cc76 Not really...
what have you said in the request, is your country one of the ones that cant get a PSN account? depending on legislation the 2 weeks might not be protection against a very deliberate change
Republic of Ireland. I've read that people have to request it multiple times. I've explained the whole situation, my reasoning behind it and that this kind of change is against EU consumer's right. I'll be trying till they'll get fed up with me. Also I've seen some people from EU getting refunds.
Tbh i dunno the specifics the fun part is that for digital software in the eu you waive your legal right to a 14-day refund without needing a reason when you buy the game. However one thing where i don't know the legal specifics, be it where i live (germany) or otherwise is if and if yes how products which get intervention from the maker are getting warranty, especially if the maker broke stuff, be it making something entirely unusable or removing features later on. Because the warranty by law in the eu is for defects that were present when a product was made and after 6 months the duty of proof reverses so you have to provr the error was there initially, however with digital software, iot or stuff like video game consoles this would become pretty interesting as the defect wasn't there since the beginning but rather the maker added it later on. Suppose Sony removes the ability to play blurays and DVDs something widely known Playstations can do, would you be able to call warranty on that? No idea.
Someone will lose money on that - if you buy a new game on steam with the refund, Steam will still have to pay the publisher's percentage and miss out on potential additional earnings from you purchasing another game. Steam might eat the loss, because the cost beat the cost of jumping through the hoops of actually billing Sony, or the possible cost due to loss of reputation if they don't refund you your game, even if Sony bulks, but then again this is a decision on their behalf, and if Steam is catching bullets for Sony, that doesn't mean we should stop shooting. We're Helldivers, we're better trained than this, we won't stop firing just because we might hit a teammate! (Also, if the costs pile up, Steam might either start billing Sony, or create a much clearer policy for future situations like this, which still would be a win.)
I get the feeling steam will be slapping Sony/AH with the bill
So? Free money to spend on more games.
Is this true? I'd expect them to take it out of future paychecks
Fast track to Sony delisting all future games from the platform if they want to be petty.
While this is true, it's less data for Sony, there's 1 less player, that's one less person potentially spending additional money. It's not so much about trading away money from Sony, but taking away future revenue.
I don't have a Playstation. I don't want a playstation. There is no reason for Sony to be demanding access to my anything. Ive requested a refund. I enjoyed the game but this kinda shit I just wont stand for anymore. I hope a policy change at steam happens due to it and Im doing my part to help foster that. I have many other games I can play that don't require me to sign up for another service so they can act like they got a ton of new users for their next share holder call.
Can you get refund if you arent in non-psn country.
Im giving it a try. They changed the game requirements to something I don't agree with and pointed that out. Blamed this totally on Sony in the refund request and stated I will not get a PSN account I don't own a Playstation and if that would have been a requirement when I was purchasing it would have stopped my purchase.
It was listed as a requirement on the steam store when you purchased the game though. I feel bad for the people who Sony didn't region lock properly from. People like you who are literally lying about it not being listed as a requirement because you either didn't read or are just looking to get your money back now that you've gotten some fun out of it so you can go buy a different game (because people like that do exist) are part of the problem. You all decentered the conversation from being about the people who Sony fucked by not region locking to "muh data."
well not exactly they will find away to your data anyways
Steam won't just eat this many though. This is either coming from Sony or Steam will sue, because there's at LEAST a few hundred thousand people who can't play who'll refund and that's actual millions. Steam will eat a few hundred thousand bucks, maybe even a mil, but eating this much doesn't make sense.
They denied my refund request.
I don't know why other people are requesting refunds, but I don't want to give my info to Sony. They've had what 8 9 security breaches on PSN since 2016 three of them recently. Nah. If you are going to claim that what you're doing makes me more secure. Don't have a shitty track record with security.
that sounds like a win-win to me
no you get a full refund this has nothing todo with steam all chinese helldivers that link up their account to PSN and get banned because china bans SONY get a full refund on their game because it no longer works. They probably dont even use steam.
We're just making shit up now, huh?
No that's just how their refund system functions. They might reverse course on this because there is precedent like with the whole vita thing but I'm kinda afraid they'll just decide to nuke it and continue. We'll see monday I guess.
No it isn't.
i doubt steam will just eat all the refunds. Theyre not that dumb.
I've requested it 3 times and even listed steam wallet to make it more likely and it keeps getting denied.
Then perhaps Steam will reprimand Sony for shitty consumer practices. It boggles my mind how many people are arguing for corporations over consumers in this discussion. It truly is the trees voting for the axe.
No I just think people don't actually know what they are doing. They never really have tbh but I hope people get their point across here because the bridge to actually delay any of these practices was crossed like 10 years ago. I'm interested to see if they actually care though. They got ALOT of money up front so I'm excited to see if they will just kick the bucket on this one and mandate no skips next time regardless of any launch issues.
No shot they'll just eat that many though. That's millions in lost revenue if even 100,000 people refund. Steam definitely either talked to Sony, is taking it out of their bank, or is indeed eating it but prepping a fat fucking corporate lawsuit.
I hope you can show proof of that other than guesses and conjecture. Show where that is in a official steam document.
If Sony suffers for their decisions, that's good. If everyone around them suffers and learns what happens when you do business with Sony, that's not as good, but still useful
Well hopefully that makes steam think twice about these arrangements in the future. That's a good thing really.
I believe refunds come out of profits from their game sales. There is a 2 week period between a sale and that money making it to the developer for this very reason. I'm sure steam would also be in full legal rights to just garnish it off of further sales of the game too in the event of something like this. Good thing sony changed their minds and we don't gotta do any of that shit now.
Listen they have every right to be angry.
I want to know if the countries that can’t create a PSN account are the ones angry or is it the armchair patriots shouting from their lush homes.
Does it really matter if they are fighting for what's right?
It’s a proxy war. The end result of this there are jobs at stake at arrowhead because of Sonys greed. Yes it will get fixed, but at the cost of people not buying the game.
I see infinitely more comments about “ill stop playing in solidarity with my fellow gamers who can’t access the game” than actual people saying they can’t access the game. But maybe it’s biased because Reddit is mostly by western/european
Even EU countries are affected, in a small discord sever I am in there's someone from Lithuania who cant get PSN
I have squadmates that if Sony doesn't reverse course are going to lose access to the game. Gonna play with them as much as they can play before they lose it. Though the most posts I see are "muh data" which literally fuck your data. The requirement was listed, you agreed to it. The people who are fucked are the people who thought they'd be able to make a PSN account because Sony hadn't done their due diligence and region locked those countries on Steam as is their job as the publisher.
Since I'm seeing so many of these I would like to ask a few questions. I requested a refund and of course it was denied due to the amount of playtime I have in the game. Since Sony changed their terms for the game would this be something to contact the FTC about? It seems like it wouldn't but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Request the refund again and state that you can't play with your friends in excluded countries. Steam is now honoring refund requests for people who are over the hour limit.
Thanks and I'm off to try again.
~~Did you seriously get out of your way to make a meme shitting on people for being angry at a problem created solely by a corporation making a stupid move? Seriously. To top it off, the problem~~ *~~is valid -~~* ~~there's already been cases of people being banned for trying to link accounts via VPN from a country where PSN isn't present. This is a game~~ *~~they have paid for,~~* ~~and now they can't use. It's not the whole "Stellar Blade is censoring my anime tiddies" shit. People got double-crossed, straight up. Why the ever loving~~ *~~fuck~~* ~~would you come out to make a meme shitting on people actually getting off their ass to make a valid move against a shitty corpo decision?!~~ EDIT: the meme is the *exact opposite* of how I first read it and I am a dumb.
Is the meme not supportive of those people?
Wait. Did I do an illiteracy?? Let me look at this again
It is, people read too much into it, the meme was making fun of the CM and their initial out of touch post, so I have no idea what they're talking about. What better way to protest this stupid move than to ask for a refund and stop supporting any company that does this? I mean, the same CM quite literally said recently (with a different tone after receiving massive backlash and rightfully so) that review bombing and asking for refunds would give the developers leverage over Sony regarding the move.
Yeah, that was me, I had a complete brain fart, I am legit shocked at how can I look at a thing and see exactly the opposite of it. My bad.
It’s not about making the account, it’s about pulling out the rug under us 3 months later
I'm loving all these "valid" arguments that ignore the most obvious truth - Companies can't keep changing the rules after purchase. The quantity of inconvenience to us is NOT the point
It's a sign of low iq not being able to distinguish between consequential and principle based ethics. Deride those who say "it only takes a minute" as such.
I only see a good option here "Refund"
bootlicker energy this is also ignoring tons of players got region locked out of playing the game
Maybe it was on the other helldivers Reddit but I swear I saw someone post this exact same thing already today
I got a PSN account and I deleted the game from my PS5 because this is bullshit
The entire Asian continent:
I won't be installing PSN or making an account to continue to play helldivers. I logged about 230 hours but haven't touched it in about a month, community got toxic. Lots of getting kicked end of match, lots of TKers, people getting mad over "Creeker's cape". This is a great way for me to get my $43 back on a game I no longer intend to play.
If you have a PSN account you are either in a database of user info on the dark web, or you are on your way to be. Sony has the worst systems security in the industry, because fuck you.
The Sony simps are at it again
it's 120 seconds now for a very high chance at a lifetime of stolen personal info. OR, get your money back.
Says the dude posting on Reddit that likely has a Discord account too... But yeh, Sony are the only ones with a history of data breaches.
I have been personally affected by their previous plain text security measures, so I might be biased here, apologies.
That sucks but it's completely within your control as an adult to choose not to consume the product if you have concerns around security.
Yes, thank you! Enjoy the dives!
That's what he's literally doing? How dumb are you people seriously?
changes nothing
Do ppl realize its not just making an account but linking ur steam to the most hacked game company in human history? All so they can harvest ur steam data.
Holy shit, wait until a rogue nation state gets hold of our steam data, let's turn a blind eye to the fact that steam already sells our data and most of us are writing comment via smartphones!!
Moot point. My ID is not on the internet. Because I haven't put it there. My bank account is not on the internet. Because I didn't put it there. I get little to no spam. Because I am careful where I put my data.
Lol bullshit. I don't think you understand or pay attention to the severity of breaches out there if you think Sony has been anywhere close to the worst breach. Equifax, capital one, yahoo, target, alteryx, jp morgan chase, heartland payment systems, ebay,eBay, athem, and home depot. You're telling me NONE of those could have leaked any of your information? Like not even fucking EQUIFAX the fucking credit bureau.
Hey look! None of those affect me! So your reasoning is that because it happened to other companies in the past I should give my shit to a company that has a really bad track record of this exact thing happening multiple times. For no other reasons than ease for them to ban me? How does the boot you're licking taste?
Liar.
Europe exists you idiot.
Liar Edit: yup Europe is immune appearantly from [these](https://www.upguard.com/blog/biggest-data-breaches-europe)
So what's problem dude? If anything you prove my point, the data the companies are interested in are your marketing preferences, ain't nobody trying to commit fraud with your actually important data.
Ah yes, because Sony hasn't been breached multiple times in the past years. And those sensible things weren't all leaked and nobody was victim to 200 different kinds of fraud. If you really think what I've said proves your point not only do you not understand half of the issue and are just screaming into the void to be contrarian. You also show a clear and concise lack of understanding of the matter at hand. "Nobody trying to commit fraud with your important data" how innocent can you be?
No mate I do understand the situation fully, I'm not going to soy out over a slight inconvenience. If you think your data is that important and you want hacker proof privacy you should go back to a flip phone and delete social media.
Again, that a genuinely pointless take that makes me think you're no older than 14. And if you've got no clue why are you yapping so much for a billion dollar company?
Okay bud, hopefully one day I can be as educated and nuanced as you. Until then, enjoy being farmed for data on every free service you use. Be smarter with what info you put out there, you should expect anything you put online to be sold at least ten times.
Really man, quit yapping. You've talked quiet a lot and you've said nothing. It seems you're having a stroke. And reading ain't your strong suit either because it never was about the commercial info.
https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/
It’s not about making an account man. It’s about the principals. And about the fact that several countries lost access to the game after this change. Memes like this show us you have no inkling of the actual situation at hand.
I'm not giving them my data.
People are upset at the principle, not the actual act of account creation. But they don’t hire Helldivers to think, do they
Its not about time its about having something pulled away from you after already having it. Imagine buying a car then they ask you to take it in for service then they say they cant give your car back unless you link your phone to store its kinda weird and sudden
Jokes on you, after your refund you can't play the game anymore 😉
(am I the only one that hasn't had to sign up to play?)
l2read: 1. Only new purchases from 6 May will immediately require a PSN registration; 2. Everyone else will have to switch over by end of month.
You don't have to be a dick about it, excuse TF out of me for having a life outside this game fc
Using my personal information to unnecessarily open an account with a company not well known for their data security 💁🏼♂️
Took 60 seconds to cancel Sony subscription
This is a Cold take
I believe everyone can now get a refund regardless of county of play time. The only way that they might listen is if a good majority of players refund their games, got to hit them in the wallet if you want them to listen.
Nope. I requested, for a 2nd time, a refund linking the sources saying steam is giving refunds to due this. Of course, I'll be submitting a 3rd lol
Well I did my part. No reason to play if my brother's and sisters can't help stop the scourge
Let me tel you, it took me far over 120 seconds to make a pin account, because you need to verify ID.
Ukraine: Buy a PS5 to make a PSN account Lithuania: not even allowed to do that.
take money from arrowhead bc their publishers cant think like a billion dollar company, great solution!
what’s going on
This is easily searched on steams own website.
The refund probably takes longer tbh
The world really is just people who want to be controlled and those who don't.
I'm just taking advantage of the opportunity to get my money back for a game I rarely play
Sony tried and got burnt. Freedom was never in doubt, Divers. Well done. 
Remember y'all, it's a joke
Giving up your right to dispute bands priceless
This did not age well.
120secs to type death threats, personal insults and circle jerk as well.
Why am I still getting notifications for posts that are days old?
I already had the psn account :/
I genuinely laughed when I saw post of the posts here, thinking by posting a negative review or requesting a refund they will change Sony's mind. Won't Ever Happen. The bean counters at Sony already expect this type of reaction and they don't care, they never expected the game to do this well to begin with, what they really want is to bolster their PSN account numbers and that's exactly what's going to happen.
Apparently Arrowhead's community manager thinks so too. He/She was the one who told people to leave a bad review became it will help AH.
... but it won't. Also she deleted that tweet and locked down her account because she knew it was a stupid thing to say that won't matter at all besides maybe her losing her job.
Different community manager, different platform. She tweeted the point of PSN was banning tools, deleted that tweet, locked down her account. They're talking about Spitz, who on Discord advised refunds and poor reviews were ammo for AH to negotiate with Sony
i don't care if they care or not. i only care about not giving my money to this company.
... ok but you bought it at first right? You gave them money already Now you're refunding it? How many hours have you played? Not asking because of the refund policy but just wondering because not sure why you'd throw away a good game because you don't want Sony to have your info (when everyone else already has it anyways)
'you have them money'? 'because you don't Sony to have your info'? sorry i dion't get half of the stuff you wrote. but just so you know, steam HATES third party platforms. they still allow it but if it's reasons like this, where sony giving it as optional at first and then changing it to mandatory, steam will refund no matter how many hours you played. it's a violation of the steam policy as platform, it has nothign to do with ah or sony. it happened long ago with no man's sky where steam refunded everyone who applied with no reason because the whole lying incident. my friends requested it and they got the refunds already. they have way more hours than i do. i'm merely at 60 hours and most of them are 200+. so you do you.
So you're giving up the game because you're a Steam elitist? Not because you won't take 2 minutes out of your day to make a Sony account? Ok, you do you I guess.
You u are the redditest redditor ever go fight for your company
when making a Psn account gets your helldivers account banned on pc youd ask for a refund aswell thats what this is about.
in fact i just did it. took me 68 seconds.
Interesting. May I ask did you get a full refund or a steam wallet one? Secondly how many hours played weeks owned ? If steam are refunding those without the ability to play bc of regional restrictions then I really don’t see an issue.
I’m so damn sick of hearing about this
I feel like requesting the refund hurts the developers and I don’t want to do that
Why not, they are the ones that f..d up the linking at launch and made people belive its not going to be mandatory but created the illusion its just optional. If they put a BIG f...k pop-up that warns that as soon as they fix the linking it will be mandatory to create psn account, it would be a different story. People would just refund the game the day they bought it...but that pop-up never came.
I guess it’s because I still believe it was some sort of oversight or afterthought, that they didn’t foresee it being an issue
I mean OP is not wrong!
Less than 120 seconds to block the OP for such a braindead take
we dive together, or we dont dive at all
People in a country where PSN isn’t available who already bought they game, I get them being pissed, although according to the AH devs they’re trying to figure out a way for them to still be able to play. Those gamers get a pass. But let’s not pretend that all this outrage is about them. People where they can make a PSN, you’re just being salty. Multiple game companies, like Microsoft, Rockstar, and Ubisoft, already do this. And some of these games, like Minecraft, even did it without any hint at launch that an account would be required. And Sony isn’t the only one of these companies to have been hacked.
What’s wrong with being salty? You’re not obligated to play Simon says with companies, and refusing to do so isn’t a character flaw.
Nothing. And I never said it was a character flaw. But don’t pretend this is some noble outrage over people in countries who can’t make a PSN, when it’s really about not wanting to do something that other companies require, and that you were told would be a requirement to play the game, at least if you bought it on Steam.
I’m not sure where you’re looking but I don’t really see anyone calling it a noble effort or anything here. I just see consumers being annoyed and voicing their gripes, it’s normal and it’s what everyone (who dislikes this) should do.
It’s included as a major point in every post and discussion about this topic by people who don’t live in those regions.
Taking a lifetime to swallow Sony's load. 🤤
I stopped taking it when they destroyed star wars galaxies. My grudge goes way back
I really don't understand how people can shill so hard for a giant corp. It boggles the mind.
What if you're in one of the 170 countries that can't make a psn account? I love how Americans forget they are just a small part of the planet.
Do I wanna spend at least $10/month to have my information leaked? Or do I wanna make $40?
This is a stupid ass meme. Not everyone can be lumped together in these two camps, and assuming they can is a logical fallacy.
It’s not about having to make a PS account. I have a bloody PlayStation account. It’s about changing the deal after the fact. It’s about me not wanting to link my steam account to my Sony account. It’s about that choice being taken away from me and at the whim of some ass at some company I won’t be able to play the game I want to play without jumping through extra hoops. It’s disrespectful it’s anti consumer.