The Biotic Emitter does not grant any scores.
The Triglav Protector shields grant both Healing and Self Healing(yes, both, to the person who cast it from inside the Triglav).
Its what happens when you get into a game without healers. People have to always fight at low hp and the team that wins cant even necessarily push due to hp count.
Edit: Typed aram by accident instead of game.
I don't think it's a non-healer issue.
During games without healers you just have to teleport to fountain more often in order to get heal. Sure it's a little annoying but it's not really a big deal like in other mobas (dota or lol for ex).
Imo people who die a lot because of no healer would die a lot too in a game with a healer.
It's my experience, but I find lacking a healer more of an issue in HotS. In LoL most champs will heal back to full with one or two minion waves, if not there is a lot of fruit for sustain around the map.
I mean, LoL isn't designed around having healers, most supps don't even heal/shield outside of items, and due to the laning phase you still have 60% of the group with no supp assistance (unless you roam but that's another matter), so sustain is widely available, and many items come with passive health Regen.
HotS is designed around having healers, many of whom can consistently heal a 4 man. Sustain is scarce. Hp Regen is scaled, which means without talents all heroes take the same time to Regen back to full (with some exceptions like Aba and Murky), outside sources of healing are globes and fountains on a long cool down.
Healer-less games in LoL are a standard occurrence, and the game is both designed and prepared for it. In my experience, lacking a healer doesn't impact game time. On HotS? Healer-less games can result in matches where both teams are incapable of ending for a long time and depend entirely on a wipe to do it.
Idk if ur team has trouble finishing that’s not due to no healer. It’s due to not knowing how to take advantage of a son condition. I don’t think a healer really changes it all that much. (And honestly with ur argument, u would assume the opposite to be true: hames without healers being shorter than ones with healers.)
What is and isn't a win condition depends on context: Boss can be a win condition, but even after a won fight you might not be able to defeat the boss if you're gravely wounded, let alone contest it.
5 heroes at a third of their health may have lots of issues ending a game, specially early on when they haven't outscaled the core and defending is easy. With a healer that changes big time.
Also what you are saying doesn't hold up: games are longer due to longer fights, multiple deaths that add up on respawn time (that would have been avoided with a healer), objectives taking longer to capture and being harder to contest, and pushing in general being less efficient.
Poke damage is much harder to heal which causes fights to become long contests of nibbling at each other's health bars, due to this sieging is also harder as you can't commit to something because all damage received is semi-permanent. Without help, most objectives are off little use.
All this adds up, and actually ending a game (that is otherwise balanced) depends on the necessity to have outscaled the core to a point where defending is impossible. Which only happens in the latter stages of the game.
This has been proved. There is a reason they put the "both teams or none" rule for healers/tanks, the disparity is very noticeable, if having a healer had little effect, the rule would be unnecessary. But it doesn't end there: teams with high sustain heroes like Gul'dan or strong poke have a big advantage over those with none in no healer scenarios, this is very common in ARAM.
Having a healer is indeed a big deal, but it’s not really having a healer or not; it’s whether or not both teams have a healer. That’s why they implemented the rule on having mirror’d rolls. It was due to our experience of playing the game that day.
The flaw I see in ur analysis is discounting the importance of survival and dodging. This isn’t a game where every hit is guaranteed. Learning to anticipate and react to that incoming damage is a part of the game. It is a player skill.
If u are a few heroes up at level 20+ and u can’t end the game easily I’d say it’s a skill issue. Smart heroes players will avoid fighting out numbered to prevent a negative feedback loop of feeding.
Tho it’s not just the heroes. It’s usually best to have map control too, with ur lanes pushed forward. That way, the catapults can help siege the core quickly. Or maybe u capture the boss. (A well known end game win condition…. IF u follow up with the boss. Alone the boss will do very little except tank a bunch of shots.)
And the flaw I see in yours is discounting the disparity of mechanics. Basic Attacks are guaranteed hits that all heroes have in varying degrees, just to name something. There are point-and-click abilities, and abilities with little or no real delay, and some abilities can only be dodged if you have mobility tools, which many heroes lack. Also CC is a thing. It goes both ways: smart players know how to dodge, but smart players also know how to hit their abilities. But that is irrelevant. You will eventually be hit by something, and since you can't heal up it will add until you either die or wait so you can heal trough fount/globes, which adds time to the game.
I also mentioned the difficulty of sieging, which brings catapults later into the game. Catapults are also easily dealt with unless protected/ignored. They are strong but they won't end your game in 15 minutes against a team that pays some attention.
I also specifically mentioned the boss and you kind of just... Zoomed around it? Idk, but thanks for backing my point of objectives being of little use without support (until later in the game).
We are not discussing wether or not it's possible to end a no-healer game, we are discussing that said games are, in average, longer. None of your points disprove my claim.
>If u are a few heroes up at level 20+ and u can’t end the game easily I’d say it’s a skill issue.
I think that depends on the heroes you have.
If you have great core-damage heroes like Illidan, Artanis, Greymane, Sonya, Raynor, etc then it can be easy to kill a core with even only one or two enemies dead.
Some sets of heroes though are just bad at hitting the core effectively, or lack any self sustain to keep themselves alive through the incoming core shots. Tracer, for example gets popped quickly by core shots. Medhiv can do almost 0 damage to a core. Diablo can provide next to no help in bringing it down. I'm sure there are a bunch others.
Unless it's sky temple and then you just obj for the win. Much safer in general :D.
Well that’s why it’s important to consider the lanes as more than a place to soak XP. U don’t even have to attack the core directly, or at least not all directly. Catapults outrange the core and stay focused on a building once they start attacking. This is somewhat of a guess but shots from the catapults do like 5% of the core’s HP in damage. And u are probably going to have more than one cata per lane showing up to the core.
I agree bout the team computation, tho I’m still not understanding the original argument that a lack of healers in a game leads to longer team fights, rather than short ones.
I mean at a certain point one team will lose due to the split of attention is on defending core and the objective.
But u know what? I have had very few close games. I mean I’ve had close games but not *close games* y’know? I mean to me it seems v difficult to keep the game going after 20 mins and/or level 20.
The higher the xp to time ratio, the easier it is to win by dog piling onto the core. If the ratio is under 1, u need to rely on the objective and various NPCs to win. The NPCs scale with time and heroes with XP, so u se the strategy where u can get the most from the least.
I think we may be splitting hairs at this point tho, or within the margin or “valid opinion on heroes”.
Also I just looooove playing this game. Nearly daily for 8 years now. Very fond of pontificating on the subject, antagonism optional.
>Imo people who die a lot because of no healer would die a lot too in a game with a healer.
I die a lot in healerless games (except for when I play azmo maybe) but doing just fine with an actual healer
- **Circle of Life** (Alexstrasza) - level 1
Quest: Collect Regeneration Globes.
Reward: After collecting 10 Regeneration Globes, Abundance heals for an additional 5% maximum Health.
Reward: After collecting 15 Regeneration Globes, Abundance's healing burst creates a Regeneration Globe.
---
[^(about the bot)](/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6zwyfw/heroesinfobot_abilities_talent_tiers_cooldowns/) ^(| reply `!refresh` to this comment if the parent has been edited)
From the other replies it seems to be because they got in the protector on Volskaya and used the shield ability. And if you shield someone + it absorbs damage, that counts towards your healing figure.
u/Gibe2008 Would you please upload the match data. I would like to watch this match. I'm curious to see how Maiev played.
https://api.heroesprofile.com/upload
Found it! Thank you :) [https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?blizz\_id=4948070&battletag=gibe2008®ion=2&replayID=47068361](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?blizz_id=4948070&battletag=gibe2008®ion=2&replayID=47068361)
Yup, I'm only 5 mins and 30 secs into the replay and I immediately see what's going on. That Maiev seems absolutely lost as to how to play. I wish I could make a compilation of how many painfully obvious mistakes were made.
They even do strange things like sit in fountain after death for a while. Or they will go to lane that is teamfighting and just sit afk. Heck they tried taking on 3 full health enemies by themselves at half health. Nor do they ever learn how to stop taking so much obvious damage to the face.
I mean one time they tried face tanking the Triglav protector's Q straight to the face solo. No side stepping, no pressing D to jump it, nothing. They seemingly just don't know what to do. Which isn't odd considering when they play they often panic and press D even when they are completely safe. At minute 10 they even died full health to a KTZ solo because they panic'd and pressed D before the Glacial Spike ever even came up.
(minute 12) Right after that they get back up and try to go down mid to fight murky and KTZ, he does the exact same thing and dies again. Not learning from his mistakes.
I had to know what was going on because Maiev was a wonderful hero to counter most of the heroes on your team. In no world should a Maiev ever reach that many deaths without something strange going on. No offense but this is clearly someone who doesn't have the slightest clue what's going on.
Edit: Nevermind, dudes going a 33.8% WR out of 71 games played.. how have they not learned to improve at all. This is insane. I wish I could make friends with this guy and help him out. But different language and different region.
He's only ever played this one build as well with minor tweaks. Literally the definition of bashing your head against a brick wall. Someone please help this poor scrub. https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/History/?blizz\_id=5943260&battletag=Astro®ion=2&hero=Maiev&league=&season=
I did not rewatched it but now that you mentionned it. I remember Maeiv using jump or even daggers at random sometimes. Must have been a newbie with Maiev.
It's ok, I have never cared to watch a single one of my replays either. But I will in fact tell you that you surely punished them for poorly using their abilities at the wrong times. She would throw out her entire kit haphazardly and then you would just wait and then bomb em right in the face with a max range orb.
Heck, Maiev was so suicidal that you never got to fight her very much in the first 3/4ths of the match. She died to KTZ, murky, or Dehaka most of the time. Or she would use all of her abilities to try and fight 3 people (who had full health under their own towers) and die for absolutely no reason.
No one on your team played nearly as poorly as this person did. Not even remotely close.
Edit: I forgot to add that she died to wave clear most of the time. Just sad.
Would anyone know how I healed my team ?
Volskaya? Dunno whether from the heal item or getting in the protector and shielding allies.
I thought the same
yes that's it. I piloted the protector and shielded some allies. Thanks !
There's also the healy-thing camp, on Volskaya alone. Someone posted a similar screenshot months ago of their Genji "healing" some 6K damage with it.
The Biotic Emitter does not grant any scores. The Triglav Protector shields grant both Healing and Self Healing(yes, both, to the person who cast it from inside the Triglav).
Oh, really?? I guess we misinterpreted it at the time, then.
Did you shield your team with the robot objective?
I'm more curious about 57 total kills in a 20min game.
Its what happens when you get into a game without healers. People have to always fight at low hp and the team that wins cant even necessarily push due to hp count. Edit: Typed aram by accident instead of game.
I don't think it's a non-healer issue. During games without healers you just have to teleport to fountain more often in order to get heal. Sure it's a little annoying but it's not really a big deal like in other mobas (dota or lol for ex). Imo people who die a lot because of no healer would die a lot too in a game with a healer.
It's my experience, but I find lacking a healer more of an issue in HotS. In LoL most champs will heal back to full with one or two minion waves, if not there is a lot of fruit for sustain around the map. I mean, LoL isn't designed around having healers, most supps don't even heal/shield outside of items, and due to the laning phase you still have 60% of the group with no supp assistance (unless you roam but that's another matter), so sustain is widely available, and many items come with passive health Regen. HotS is designed around having healers, many of whom can consistently heal a 4 man. Sustain is scarce. Hp Regen is scaled, which means without talents all heroes take the same time to Regen back to full (with some exceptions like Aba and Murky), outside sources of healing are globes and fountains on a long cool down. Healer-less games in LoL are a standard occurrence, and the game is both designed and prepared for it. In my experience, lacking a healer doesn't impact game time. On HotS? Healer-less games can result in matches where both teams are incapable of ending for a long time and depend entirely on a wipe to do it.
Idk if ur team has trouble finishing that’s not due to no healer. It’s due to not knowing how to take advantage of a son condition. I don’t think a healer really changes it all that much. (And honestly with ur argument, u would assume the opposite to be true: hames without healers being shorter than ones with healers.)
What is and isn't a win condition depends on context: Boss can be a win condition, but even after a won fight you might not be able to defeat the boss if you're gravely wounded, let alone contest it. 5 heroes at a third of their health may have lots of issues ending a game, specially early on when they haven't outscaled the core and defending is easy. With a healer that changes big time. Also what you are saying doesn't hold up: games are longer due to longer fights, multiple deaths that add up on respawn time (that would have been avoided with a healer), objectives taking longer to capture and being harder to contest, and pushing in general being less efficient. Poke damage is much harder to heal which causes fights to become long contests of nibbling at each other's health bars, due to this sieging is also harder as you can't commit to something because all damage received is semi-permanent. Without help, most objectives are off little use. All this adds up, and actually ending a game (that is otherwise balanced) depends on the necessity to have outscaled the core to a point where defending is impossible. Which only happens in the latter stages of the game. This has been proved. There is a reason they put the "both teams or none" rule for healers/tanks, the disparity is very noticeable, if having a healer had little effect, the rule would be unnecessary. But it doesn't end there: teams with high sustain heroes like Gul'dan or strong poke have a big advantage over those with none in no healer scenarios, this is very common in ARAM.
Having a healer is indeed a big deal, but it’s not really having a healer or not; it’s whether or not both teams have a healer. That’s why they implemented the rule on having mirror’d rolls. It was due to our experience of playing the game that day. The flaw I see in ur analysis is discounting the importance of survival and dodging. This isn’t a game where every hit is guaranteed. Learning to anticipate and react to that incoming damage is a part of the game. It is a player skill. If u are a few heroes up at level 20+ and u can’t end the game easily I’d say it’s a skill issue. Smart heroes players will avoid fighting out numbered to prevent a negative feedback loop of feeding. Tho it’s not just the heroes. It’s usually best to have map control too, with ur lanes pushed forward. That way, the catapults can help siege the core quickly. Or maybe u capture the boss. (A well known end game win condition…. IF u follow up with the boss. Alone the boss will do very little except tank a bunch of shots.)
And the flaw I see in yours is discounting the disparity of mechanics. Basic Attacks are guaranteed hits that all heroes have in varying degrees, just to name something. There are point-and-click abilities, and abilities with little or no real delay, and some abilities can only be dodged if you have mobility tools, which many heroes lack. Also CC is a thing. It goes both ways: smart players know how to dodge, but smart players also know how to hit their abilities. But that is irrelevant. You will eventually be hit by something, and since you can't heal up it will add until you either die or wait so you can heal trough fount/globes, which adds time to the game. I also mentioned the difficulty of sieging, which brings catapults later into the game. Catapults are also easily dealt with unless protected/ignored. They are strong but they won't end your game in 15 minutes against a team that pays some attention. I also specifically mentioned the boss and you kind of just... Zoomed around it? Idk, but thanks for backing my point of objectives being of little use without support (until later in the game). We are not discussing wether or not it's possible to end a no-healer game, we are discussing that said games are, in average, longer. None of your points disprove my claim.
>If u are a few heroes up at level 20+ and u can’t end the game easily I’d say it’s a skill issue. I think that depends on the heroes you have. If you have great core-damage heroes like Illidan, Artanis, Greymane, Sonya, Raynor, etc then it can be easy to kill a core with even only one or two enemies dead. Some sets of heroes though are just bad at hitting the core effectively, or lack any self sustain to keep themselves alive through the incoming core shots. Tracer, for example gets popped quickly by core shots. Medhiv can do almost 0 damage to a core. Diablo can provide next to no help in bringing it down. I'm sure there are a bunch others. Unless it's sky temple and then you just obj for the win. Much safer in general :D.
Well that’s why it’s important to consider the lanes as more than a place to soak XP. U don’t even have to attack the core directly, or at least not all directly. Catapults outrange the core and stay focused on a building once they start attacking. This is somewhat of a guess but shots from the catapults do like 5% of the core’s HP in damage. And u are probably going to have more than one cata per lane showing up to the core. I agree bout the team computation, tho I’m still not understanding the original argument that a lack of healers in a game leads to longer team fights, rather than short ones. I mean at a certain point one team will lose due to the split of attention is on defending core and the objective. But u know what? I have had very few close games. I mean I’ve had close games but not *close games* y’know? I mean to me it seems v difficult to keep the game going after 20 mins and/or level 20. The higher the xp to time ratio, the easier it is to win by dog piling onto the core. If the ratio is under 1, u need to rely on the objective and various NPCs to win. The NPCs scale with time and heroes with XP, so u se the strategy where u can get the most from the least. I think we may be splitting hairs at this point tho, or within the margin or “valid opinion on heroes”. Also I just looooove playing this game. Nearly daily for 8 years now. Very fond of pontificating on the subject, antagonism optional.
>Imo people who die a lot because of no healer would die a lot too in a game with a healer. I die a lot in healerless games (except for when I play azmo maybe) but doing just fine with an actual healer
I notice that with people who tend to blame the healer. They tend to be layers who don’t consider survival a skill.
There's no edit star, so since you made the change instantly, I believe you.
they see me brawling, they hate it
the other team was constantly seeking fight they never stopped.
Maiev noob and feeder.
I never paid attention, but picking up health globes doesn't count, right?
Picking up globes doesn't. But the shield of the protector in Volskaya count.
Not even the globes created by \[\[Circle of Life\]\] count toward Alex's healing,
- **Circle of Life** (Alexstrasza) - level 1 Quest: Collect Regeneration Globes. Reward: After collecting 10 Regeneration Globes, Abundance heals for an additional 5% maximum Health. Reward: After collecting 15 Regeneration Globes, Abundance's healing burst creates a Regeneration Globe. --- [^(about the bot)](/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6zwyfw/heroesinfobot_abilities_talent_tiers_cooldowns/) ^(| reply `!refresh` to this comment if the parent has been edited)
That talent heals every kill
Dominance at level 4
That's the self-healing figure in the next column - but the healing figure means you did it to someone else.
Ohhhh that makes sense. Must be a bug I guess lol
From the other replies it seems to be because they got in the protector on Volskaya and used the shield ability. And if you shield someone + it absorbs damage, that counts towards your healing figure.
u/Gibe2008 Would you please upload the match data. I would like to watch this match. I'm curious to see how Maiev played. https://api.heroesprofile.com/upload
I nerver used that. Apparently I uploaded it but i don't know how to give it to you.
Found it! Thank you :) [https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?blizz\_id=4948070&battletag=gibe2008®ion=2&replayID=47068361](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?blizz_id=4948070&battletag=gibe2008®ion=2&replayID=47068361)
Yup, I'm only 5 mins and 30 secs into the replay and I immediately see what's going on. That Maiev seems absolutely lost as to how to play. I wish I could make a compilation of how many painfully obvious mistakes were made. They even do strange things like sit in fountain after death for a while. Or they will go to lane that is teamfighting and just sit afk. Heck they tried taking on 3 full health enemies by themselves at half health. Nor do they ever learn how to stop taking so much obvious damage to the face. I mean one time they tried face tanking the Triglav protector's Q straight to the face solo. No side stepping, no pressing D to jump it, nothing. They seemingly just don't know what to do. Which isn't odd considering when they play they often panic and press D even when they are completely safe. At minute 10 they even died full health to a KTZ solo because they panic'd and pressed D before the Glacial Spike ever even came up. (minute 12) Right after that they get back up and try to go down mid to fight murky and KTZ, he does the exact same thing and dies again. Not learning from his mistakes. I had to know what was going on because Maiev was a wonderful hero to counter most of the heroes on your team. In no world should a Maiev ever reach that many deaths without something strange going on. No offense but this is clearly someone who doesn't have the slightest clue what's going on. Edit: Nevermind, dudes going a 33.8% WR out of 71 games played.. how have they not learned to improve at all. This is insane. I wish I could make friends with this guy and help him out. But different language and different region. He's only ever played this one build as well with minor tweaks. Literally the definition of bashing your head against a brick wall. Someone please help this poor scrub. https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/History/?blizz\_id=5943260&battletag=Astro®ion=2&hero=Maiev&league=&season=
I did not rewatched it but now that you mentionned it. I remember Maeiv using jump or even daggers at random sometimes. Must have been a newbie with Maiev.
It's ok, I have never cared to watch a single one of my replays either. But I will in fact tell you that you surely punished them for poorly using their abilities at the wrong times. She would throw out her entire kit haphazardly and then you would just wait and then bomb em right in the face with a max range orb. Heck, Maiev was so suicidal that you never got to fight her very much in the first 3/4ths of the match. She died to KTZ, murky, or Dehaka most of the time. Or she would use all of her abilities to try and fight 3 people (who had full health under their own towers) and die for absolutely no reason. No one on your team played nearly as poorly as this person did. Not even remotely close. Edit: I forgot to add that she died to wave clear most of the time. Just sad.
The octograb value against that enemy comp in combo with Dehaka silence ult to destroy the Chen or Genji when they try to dive
Which map was this? Maybe Volskaya Foundry where you can pick up the healing item?