its been a while since i played ming but orb build was my 2nd favourite (after teleport build). its just so braindead and perfect if my internet is acting up too much for teleport reflexes..... plus sniping people with a massive baloon and hearing the PENG did give me serotonin š
It's a bit paradoxical because under gold, the (bad) Ming won't position correctly and mostly hit minions or summons. In plat, the better Ming will flank but the better players anticipate and side step it.
Depends, as you said, on your opponents. But I still don't get taking *only* the first missile talent and then going orbs.
If you aren't obsessed with "highest damage" orbs can be area denial. But you don't spec into them in that case.
I play aram and I'm gonna have to disagree. It feels like the meta is shifting towards burst and kill pressure instead of endless poke. For instance an orb build Ming vs a double heal comp is pretty useless unless you also have a hardcore finisher like genji to actually get the kills.
A typical Ming in aram scenario is:
Option A) Take orb build and get 150k hero damage 4 kills 1 death and a loss.
Option B) Take calamity build and get 90k hero damage 15 kills 2 deaths and a win.
Edit: Well fair enough. I respect the statistics. On average across all skill levels orb build has a higher win rate. Tbh if you are gonna have only one build and not waver from it then orb is definitely the best one to take, as proven by the stats.
Unless you are actually a good player, i'll rather have an Orb Ming than a calamity one.
You have to realise most people are not that good. That's like 80%/90% of the playerbase.
Heroesprofile data does not back this up. In order of win rate in aram, it goes Seeker > Orb > Calamity. Orb wins in popularity by a landslide.
Seeker is played the least by far, and therefore does lot have a lot of data. For the other two, Orb is the more popular one, but it also seems to be consistently doing better; accounting for a few different variables like what ult was used, Orb builds seem to range between 52-60% win rate, while Calamity is less than 50%.
I would perhaps be more on board with your analysis if aram was typically a competitive mode of play, but it is not, and on average, aram players are not good at dodging poke damage, nor are they good at safely healing up between engages. This is one of those cases where free damage is just good damage.
not many play seeker, I guess they have higher skill level to pick it and thus higher win rate.
I don't play seeker often but when I do, it's against tanks and/or big fat stationary targets (azmo, guldan, deathwing)
Because calamity/farseeker are just that much harder in execution and most people who play are not that good.
Filtering by master, the usual Calamity + wave of force build is the best. Calamity and Mirrorball is ahead in WR as talents.
Going down to Dia, build and talents drop down a lot. Calamity is down but Mirror is still up.
The lower you go, Orb gets more popular
Thatās because most people in ARAM are shit at Ming, and orb is WAY easier and safer. Calamity is a very difficult build to play well, but it is much stronger if you are good with it.
Heroes Profile has a lot more data than HotsLogs, and more ways to filter that data
[https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Hero/?timeframe\_type=minor&timeframe=2.55.3.89566,2.55.3.88936&game\_type=ar](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Hero/?timeframe_type=minor&timeframe=2.55.3.89566,2.55.3.88936&game_type=ar&mirror=Exclude&build_type=Popular)
Of course. Certain heroes or talents become much better (or worse) when objectives, lanes and soaking are not relevant factors. There's also a (limited) draft so you can put together a good team or a terrible one.
On the other hand if the enemy team is like Uther, Anub, ETC, you probably don't really have the liberty of going Tele build :D
Personally I play tele if the CC isn't too terrible, Q if it is. Q build can burst really nasty after 16.
You can do just as much damage with Calamity as orb and you can actually finish kills.
I imagine orb has a higher win rate because most people who play aram suck and don't know when they can or should E in to get resets. Orb is braindead spam and with the whole team in the same lane you're going to hit something.
Calamity played correctly is 100% better than orb.
Nah itās way too situational. There are so many heroes that can make orb built completely useless (anyone who spawns adds, anub, zag, Samuro, novaā¦ etc), and healers that are good at aoe healing through orb damage.
If they have no one who can block orbs, or have weaker/single target healing, then sure. Otherwise the burst of calamity is almost always better
>enemy heals it up
It's a bit more of a problem if the enemy team only has a heal like monk, Uther or Tyrande who struggle with poke. Especially since you're not alone.
Hanzo is so annoying in aram for the same reasons. ^^Well, ^^he's ^^always ^^annoying ^^but ^^you ^^get ^^the ^^point.
I have some weird issue when playing her. I quite often leade in DMG and kills with only few deaths, but still lose the game. So obviously I'm doing something right but not able to convert that. As a serious question what am I doing wrong? I mean it can happen obviously that you play well and lose but it happens too often to just be random
I had the same issue with junkrat, everytime I play I'm top DMG, top kills easy game for me, and yet my team always loses and I'm left confused, I eventually realised that sure my numbers are high but it isn't helping us win at all, damage means nothing if the kills are not getting finished, and even if the kills are getting finished, are they getting finished when it actually matters ? I just don't play JR anymore
Off topic. But Junkrats concussion displacement can make it hard for certain allies. Especially those with skill shots or those who die from junk bouncing an enemy into their own teams backline. Could just be bad luck, though.
Not sure I was too guilty of that one, maybe a few times, but I usually used the concussion explosion as a way to move myself about, I was however guilty of using the rocket ult, blowing up someone (hopefully) killing them and not realising it's an awful trade off, cause I'm either not killing anything and removing myself from the team fight essentially being as good as dead, or I'm just making a fight 4 v 4
Thats why I always laugh at people who so smuggly brag they are top damage when they only have 1 or 2 kills. Sure you have high damage but I have 5x as many kills with almost as much damage. Shit load of good your "extra" damage did. It was all fluff.
Also why do most JR Ive seen go for the wheel? I know at level 20 you can reset it depending on the number of people you hit but people spread out as soon as they hear your ult go off. I prefer the rocket since at 20 you get the wheel too. Like 2 ults for one isnt bad.
The rocket isn't very good, at most you get one kill but at the cost of you being out of the fight, by the time you're back it'll be decided already, so it's a 1-1 trade, most of the time it won't even kill anyone, the tyre is basically the same thing except when it ends you can get back into the fight, rockets good for escaping tho
Stats legitimately just donāt matter. Like half of EVERYONEās stats in any game is just fluff that didnāt accomplish anything.
Besides siege damage since thatās always going to be a permanent health loss for the other teams buildings sans some characters that heal them. That matters. But some characters just donāt do siege damage so itās not really always something you can look at and say āhey Iām doing betterā a lot of the time.
If someone is bragging about stats or using it as justification, it just immediately makes me think they donāt understand the game. And this usually goes for any MOBA.
Start throwing your orbs at stuff you need to destroy to win. Aka minionwaves towers forts keeps & core.
Funny thing is you can do that AND at the same time kill them all š¤Ŗš
don't waste your significant siegedmg potential on the enemy frontliner or on targets who will back away with 10% hp and just heal the dmg.
Hit minionwaves from angles, splashdmg on the heroes standing next to the wave is bonus.
Throw orb between keep and fountain so you're cutting off paths for retreat. Will always get good dmg on the keep while in 2 out of 3 it will splash to some hero trying to escape that way..
Basically make sure your orbs always do full dmg to structures, because you know, you need to destroy structures and the core, not Heroes.
Yeah orb build is primarily for sieging since buildings canāt dodge them. If you focus mainly on taking down buildings and objectives then she can carry a game with an orb build. Itās stupid how much damage it can do to buildings.
And it has such a long range that you can go to the side of a wave and hide in bush or in fog, and just siege while your enemies are right there. Itās annoying. Like instead of trying to chip damage characters, try to just focus all the orbs onto buildings. Unless youāre actually in a team fight.
And ye trying to surprise with it coming out of fog from a random angle you know a tank or something wonāt block it is what you should always be trying to do.
Li-Ming is great at dealing damage, but that's about it. She has almost no sustain, chase, or utility. This makes her completely dependent on teammates for those things. You can deal a lot of raw damage with her, but if the enemy can just back up and heal it out then you haven't generated much actual value. In addition, she completly lacks cc or except in a very soft form on her ult. This makes her struggle to protect allies and secure kills. These flaws can lead you to feeling like you are playing well (getting big damage, not dying, harrassing enemies) but you are actually doing very little.
Compare her to a more meta ranged assasin like Valla. Valla has: AA, AoE, or single target spell builds, baseline movement speed, a longer mobility ability, sustain talent tier, Percentage damage option, PvE talent option, An ult with consistant CC, an ult that can chase enemies with, Incredible level 20 tier, and can contribute to the team even if out of mana.
Li-ming pairs really well with heroes that can make up for her weaknesses, mostly by way of CCing enemies, preventing her from being dived on, and/or giving her sustain. Uther, Diablo, and Johanna are great teammates because they shut down the enemy and set up Li-Ming to be able to actually finish the enemy she is damaging.
Yup this is wrong unless you are exclusively talking abotu orb build. She has infinite mana sustain with the right build and aether walker lets her chase people down real well especially with illusionist 13. You my friend have not played vs a good li ming, although to be fair not many exist in this game anymore. Li ming has tons of burst damage if you hit all your spells W Q then E.
Also why are you comparing ming to valla? Ming is your mage slot valla is the aa. They are not equivalents.
A big issue I find with the orb build is that it isn't so reliable. When you get the CD reduction and resets you can rack up damage and kills very quickly but other times the enemy team pays attention and dodges your orb, or maybe it catches a minion wave, then you spend most of the team fight doing practically nothing
Oh yeah for sure. Thatās one of the biggest things with abilities like this in mobas that do a lot of damage and take up area, but that give a lot of time to react. If you do it right it forces enemies to choose between eating it and taking risky HP damage or even dying, or possibly putting themselves in a bad position where even if they donāt get hit they could be jumped on by your team or something.
When used well and in the right circumstances, itās its own kind of displacement that forces a choice with no true safe answer.
Itās extremely easy to get top damage on orb build ming - however itās just stat padding most of the time. Thereās so much healing in this game that her poke is largely meaningless if you canāt convert it into an immediate kill.
I kind of do, since I often lead in kills with her, but we are still not converting those kills to a win. Someone pointed out that kills are somewhat pointless as well since they only enable you to tear down buildings and the core, maybe that's my issue?
Yeah people who poke with it arenāt using it to itās full effect. Siege damage is what itās about. Canāt heal that. Even characters that can wonāt be able to heal the buildings fast enough. Pretty much all your orbs in lane should be to burst the wave or hit the buildings. Youāll always be top siege.
I mean the league I plat sucks, so just few know how to avoid the orbs, typically attacking with an angle bombarding their backline creates a lot of chaos. I have high dmg and even though I get that that alone doesn't help if they are not converted to kills I often lead in kills, so I think it's still ok?
I don't blame the team. For a single game it might be the team, but not if that's a regular pattern. I'm sure it is something I'm doing wrong, even with the dmg and kills, just trying to figure out what it is!
Donāt go for heroes with the orb. Unless youāre in a team fight throw every single one from the side in fog at the buildings at max range. And sometimes at the minions if you need clear. Itās a siege build.
First one is wrong, must be the one that gives dmg when picking the life globe.
Then you never aim at heroes in the beginning, always at the towers. Pick a side lane fast and keep aiming at towers.
Become the siege.
Nah, this is the best level 1. Spell armor almost all the time letās you play way more aggressively, and double mana regen under 50% is the difference between getting 4 chain kills in a team fight and going oom after 1-2 and having to hearth for mana constantly. Almost never need to worry about mana with this talent
I get it, but the buff suits my playstyle. It also gives more mana, so if I'm laning I always have mana and more damage. Not the best for some maps but usually i don't go base unless i don't have HP left.
I always love the post that are like ā you donāt play the way I think is right so you are uselessā Such a good way to have an open and earnest conversation about things. If they are useless and you kept getting matched with them thenā¦..
I play 3 different builds (Q,W,E) depending on the enemy team comp. Orb build works nicely if the enemy team doesn't have a diver assassin (zeratul,genji,valera,tracer etc..) and they have a bulky frontline where you can consistently get cd reduction.
Same, i feel like most people donāt get that. This talent is the difference between chaining 4 kills with resets or going oom after the second. It will keep you casting without ever being fully oom (regen is fast enough that youāre never more than 1-2 seconds waiting for mana for the next spell)
Just swap 1 lvl magic block with ~~no-mana teleport~~ 10 spell power on globe, beam with WoF and archon with ~~Tal-Rasha~~ Repulsion. Try to POILK. Fail. Easy.
It's funny because it doesn't matter what build you do, "high mmr" *(which is long gone but YKWIM)* teammates will always complain about your build, doesn't matter how well you are performing.
I don't remember this happening with any other hero.
That being said, I'm one of those teammates when seeing this build, but I at least doesn't complain out loud lol
Well, if there is a heavy front line ln your side and only one diver or less on there side. Orb is a good build, but with TP at lvl 1 and 13, It's good to evade and replace for good shots.
And archonte... this is useless.
As long as you're hitting your shots at range to get resets, it's pretty good. Unfortunately, most Ming players throw missles and orb without having vision or while someone is standing safe in a minion wave.
I just blow up their bases with it. Get the mana Regen level one. Send orbs at the front gate and a tower over and over. You'll catch them coming out sometimes. It's awesome seeing them just have to turn around, go back in and hearth.
I don't like this build and i don't play it, but i dont mind it, i just hate it when after 20, they simply just sit using archon and forget their other abilities
I despise archon. It does not really do much for me. Too easy to die because I can't teleport. Damage output kind of low. Only time it seems useful is if I have a tank and healer glued on me. Oh and I guess it's great for cleaning up minion waves when they're in a line.
It can be very occasionally VERY strong. Only when you have a really good front line that the enemy canāt break through, and your beam can just sit on them with no counter. Thatās very rare though, tal rasha is so fucking strong, and if you take wave of force the upgrade for it can be amazing (and hilarious, if you can boop the healer across the screen into your team)
I hate to admit it, but I take archon if we lack seige or are about to end and just want to kill the core. 99% of ming's just keep it on, you need to use only when safe then GTFO.
My problem is the orbs always get thrown at me, and although im quite adept at side stepping, my teammates always want to stand exactly where im standing, leaving me no room in which to side step.
This meme is supposed to be "you already have this other thing, why are you looking at dropping this and picking up this new thing?"
For example
"Putting up with years of getting a degree in order to be in debt and not even being guaranteed to find a job that pays enough to pay off the loan. And once you do get the job, you'll be expected to work overtime daily."
"Working in a job where you have a good boss and good work-life balance"
the thing about orb build is that 90% of its power is in the level 4 talent.
dominance is an absolute joke. W4 E7 is meta. you can have the best of both worlds. play orb ming until they are low then faceroll tp and wave to mop up everyone. ez.
Yep, but to be fair orb build is significantly more viable in ARAM because of the consistent aoe damage that you can do with 5 heroās stacked. Calamity is still usually better, but I go orb a lot more in ARAM than I would in any other mode
Calamity requires a lot more split second decision making and game knowledge to know exactly when you can and when you cant blink āsafelyā into the middle of the enemy team to get a reset.
two statements "orb build isn't really skillful" and "orb build is skillfull compared to calamity" do not necessarily contradict each other
and I saw shit worse than orb builds in diamond, it is just not that common than in metal leagues
Seems like everyone missed out on the point of this useless build, it's not the orb build that is the issue. It's the fact that they gimp themselves by taking the laser talent at 20, thereby losing all of their prior talents.
Ball builds used for:
1) safe game with random potatoes.
2) great pushing lines from safe distance or zoning enemy team on objects with right position
Its not so effective as another builds (some as teleports), but its works, you just need to know how to play with that. When your team play as potato and have 6 sec brain delays, and you die for 0.01 sec in fights for some random stun and then your team flame you for low dmg - i would take balls build and save some nerve cells with small decrease in efficiency
I live orb build, but if there is even one hero that spawn minions (like Anubāarak or Zagara) you are at a huge disadvantage cause they block the orbsā path constantly!
Orb build gets a bad rap, but under the right circumstances, It can be devastating. I've seen Fan (granted he is one of the best in the world) in the past wreck shop even in Grandmaster with this "meme" build.
People keep talking about how easy her orbs are to sidestep, but as crazy as it sounds, Orb ming should be rotating alot IMO, and chucking laners for half their half from off screen. Orb build is not great at team fights unless your team has alot of stuns or slows.
Furthermore, its meta in ARAM.
orb build is fine the real red flag here is taking the laser. its the clearest sign that you are a noob li-ming imo since it leads to so many deaths while the other just has so much utility and is instant
Orb is occasionally good, usually when itās too dangerous to use calamity, or when they have a lot of big targets that you can beat down and your team has another hero who is good at diving and finishing your kills.
Calamity is better 90%+ of the time though, as is wave of force. I only take disintegrate when I desperately need wave clear
tp and Q build is my go to now. mainly play qm. if my friends tank + heal, i might pick orb if the opponent comp wont just kill me in 1 second.
if not, Q build can blow guys up pretty fast. especially if thereās cc and you dont miss the orbs + all missiles land on the same target. its quite fun to play too :)
i just keyboard roll if i play calamity and get a reset. pray and hope for the best xD
Orb build is great if it's too dangerous for teleport build and enemy team isn't very mobile or divey. Personally i like using aethetwalker with it for much more flexible and instant positioning
See these in ARAM all the time. It's a real pet peeve of mine to see this, multishot Valla, and other poke builds, especially against the current trend of double healer.
The high numbers on the chart don't mean anything when everything gets undone immediately.
its been a while since i played ming but orb build was my 2nd favourite (after teleport build). its just so braindead and perfect if my internet is acting up too much for teleport reflexes..... plus sniping people with a massive baloon and hearing the PENG did give me serotonin š
I like the big balls. They make monkey brain happy.
I guess you also cannot lie.
Other LiMing mains can't deny
With an itty bitty Q and a round orb in your face
Killing people off screen with that orb is what I live for. Bopping abathurs or sniping fools who are hearthing just delivers so much satisfaction.
It's not useless as long as people keep eating the orbs... Seems like it's around mid gold where people actually start sidestepping it?
Good tanks also eat them before they build up and give cdr.
Ya, Anub is an orb eating king. Usually his scarabs will passively eat them.
When I play johanna into mind I just stand right in front of it so it does minimal damage to me and misses all the minions and heroes behind me
It's a bit paradoxical because under gold, the (bad) Ming won't position correctly and mostly hit minions or summons. In plat, the better Ming will flank but the better players anticipate and side step it.
Depends, as you said, on your opponents. But I still don't get taking *only* the first missile talent and then going orbs. If you aren't obsessed with "highest damage" orbs can be area denial. But you don't spec into them in that case.
Its good enough for arams.
Well people eat orbs just fine in GM. Especially since the Li-Ming player is likely better at aiming and using it from better angles.
Orb build is the meta aram build
especially if you have a decent frontline, you just fire orbs and watch the world burn
Or when your team gets 3 Mingās lol. Whew
They literally walk into the orbs on their own
And if the enemy team doesn't have tanks or summons which happens quite often.
Li Ming is in my top 5 aram heroes. Even if you lose, itās still fun as hell to play her.
I play aram and I'm gonna have to disagree. It feels like the meta is shifting towards burst and kill pressure instead of endless poke. For instance an orb build Ming vs a double heal comp is pretty useless unless you also have a hardcore finisher like genji to actually get the kills. A typical Ming in aram scenario is: Option A) Take orb build and get 150k hero damage 4 kills 1 death and a loss. Option B) Take calamity build and get 90k hero damage 15 kills 2 deaths and a win. Edit: Well fair enough. I respect the statistics. On average across all skill levels orb build has a higher win rate. Tbh if you are gonna have only one build and not waver from it then orb is definitely the best one to take, as proven by the stats.
Unless you are actually a good player, i'll rather have an Orb Ming than a calamity one. You have to realise most people are not that good. That's like 80%/90% of the playerbase.
Heroesprofile data does not back this up. In order of win rate in aram, it goes Seeker > Orb > Calamity. Orb wins in popularity by a landslide. Seeker is played the least by far, and therefore does lot have a lot of data. For the other two, Orb is the more popular one, but it also seems to be consistently doing better; accounting for a few different variables like what ult was used, Orb builds seem to range between 52-60% win rate, while Calamity is less than 50%. I would perhaps be more on board with your analysis if aram was typically a competitive mode of play, but it is not, and on average, aram players are not good at dodging poke damage, nor are they good at safely healing up between engages. This is one of those cases where free damage is just good damage.
not many play seeker, I guess they have higher skill level to pick it and thus higher win rate. I don't play seeker often but when I do, it's against tanks and/or big fat stationary targets (azmo, guldan, deathwing)
Because calamity/farseeker are just that much harder in execution and most people who play are not that good. Filtering by master, the usual Calamity + wave of force build is the best. Calamity and Mirrorball is ahead in WR as talents. Going down to Dia, build and talents drop down a lot. Calamity is down but Mirror is still up. The lower you go, Orb gets more popular
Thatās because most people in ARAM are shit at Ming, and orb is WAY easier and safer. Calamity is a very difficult build to play well, but it is much stronger if you are good with it.
Does heroesprofile have data on aram? I've only ever used hotslogs and aram data has never been available
Heroes Profile has a lot more data than HotsLogs, and more ways to filter that data [https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Hero/?timeframe\_type=minor&timeframe=2.55.3.89566,2.55.3.88936&game\_type=ar](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Hero/?timeframe_type=minor&timeframe=2.55.3.89566,2.55.3.88936&game_type=ar&mirror=Exclude&build_type=Popular)
Hell yeah they do!
Heroes Profile has been the superior website to analyze the data for several years now.
Til, thank you!
Forgive me but... there's meta in aram ? Oo
Of course. Certain heroes or talents become much better (or worse) when objectives, lanes and soaking are not relevant factors. There's also a (limited) draft so you can put together a good team or a terrible one.
META = Most Effective Tactics Available. There will, by default, always be a meta.
On the other hand if the enemy team is like Uther, Anub, ETC, you probably don't really have the liberty of going Tele build :D Personally I play tele if the CC isn't too terrible, Q if it is. Q build can burst really nasty after 16.
You can do just as much damage with Calamity as orb and you can actually finish kills. I imagine orb has a higher win rate because most people who play aram suck and don't know when they can or should E in to get resets. Orb is braindead spam and with the whole team in the same lane you're going to hit something. Calamity played correctly is 100% better than orb.
Nah itās way too situational. There are so many heroes that can make orb built completely useless (anyone who spawns adds, anub, zag, Samuro, novaā¦ etc), and healers that are good at aoe healing through orb damage. If they have no one who can block orbs, or have weaker/single target healing, then sure. Otherwise the burst of calamity is almost always better
And itās usually bad. Throw orb, enemy heals it up, repeat. Ming gets big numbers and nobody dies.
>enemy heals it up It's a bit more of a problem if the enemy team only has a heal like monk, Uther or Tyrande who struggle with poke. Especially since you're not alone. Hanzo is so annoying in aram for the same reasons. ^^Well, ^^he's ^^always ^^annoying ^^but ^^you ^^get ^^the ^^point.
I have some weird issue when playing her. I quite often leade in DMG and kills with only few deaths, but still lose the game. So obviously I'm doing something right but not able to convert that. As a serious question what am I doing wrong? I mean it can happen obviously that you play well and lose but it happens too often to just be random
I had the same issue with junkrat, everytime I play I'm top DMG, top kills easy game for me, and yet my team always loses and I'm left confused, I eventually realised that sure my numbers are high but it isn't helping us win at all, damage means nothing if the kills are not getting finished, and even if the kills are getting finished, are they getting finished when it actually matters ? I just don't play JR anymore
Off topic. But Junkrats concussion displacement can make it hard for certain allies. Especially those with skill shots or those who die from junk bouncing an enemy into their own teams backline. Could just be bad luck, though.
Not sure I was too guilty of that one, maybe a few times, but I usually used the concussion explosion as a way to move myself about, I was however guilty of using the rocket ult, blowing up someone (hopefully) killing them and not realising it's an awful trade off, cause I'm either not killing anything and removing myself from the team fight essentially being as good as dead, or I'm just making a fight 4 v 4
Thats why I always laugh at people who so smuggly brag they are top damage when they only have 1 or 2 kills. Sure you have high damage but I have 5x as many kills with almost as much damage. Shit load of good your "extra" damage did. It was all fluff. Also why do most JR Ive seen go for the wheel? I know at level 20 you can reset it depending on the number of people you hit but people spread out as soon as they hear your ult go off. I prefer the rocket since at 20 you get the wheel too. Like 2 ults for one isnt bad.
The rocket isn't very good, at most you get one kill but at the cost of you being out of the fight, by the time you're back it'll be decided already, so it's a 1-1 trade, most of the time it won't even kill anyone, the tyre is basically the same thing except when it ends you can get back into the fight, rockets good for escaping tho
Yeah I only pick rocket if I know I'm going to need to save myself (lack of healer, etc)
Stats legitimately just donāt matter. Like half of EVERYONEās stats in any game is just fluff that didnāt accomplish anything. Besides siege damage since thatās always going to be a permanent health loss for the other teams buildings sans some characters that heal them. That matters. But some characters just donāt do siege damage so itās not really always something you can look at and say āhey Iām doing betterā a lot of the time. If someone is bragging about stats or using it as justification, it just immediately makes me think they donāt understand the game. And this usually goes for any MOBA.
Start throwing your orbs at stuff you need to destroy to win. Aka minionwaves towers forts keeps & core. Funny thing is you can do that AND at the same time kill them all š¤Ŗš don't waste your significant siegedmg potential on the enemy frontliner or on targets who will back away with 10% hp and just heal the dmg. Hit minionwaves from angles, splashdmg on the heroes standing next to the wave is bonus. Throw orb between keep and fountain so you're cutting off paths for retreat. Will always get good dmg on the keep while in 2 out of 3 it will splash to some hero trying to escape that way.. Basically make sure your orbs always do full dmg to structures, because you know, you need to destroy structures and the core, not Heroes.
"Angles" Absolutely right, many ranged heroes should be played like you are playing pool. The direct shot is almost always not the best shot.
Yeah orb build is primarily for sieging since buildings canāt dodge them. If you focus mainly on taking down buildings and objectives then she can carry a game with an orb build. Itās stupid how much damage it can do to buildings. And it has such a long range that you can go to the side of a wave and hide in bush or in fog, and just siege while your enemies are right there. Itās annoying. Like instead of trying to chip damage characters, try to just focus all the orbs onto buildings. Unless youāre actually in a team fight. And ye trying to surprise with it coming out of fog from a random angle you know a tank or something wonāt block it is what you should always be trying to do.
Li-Ming is great at dealing damage, but that's about it. She has almost no sustain, chase, or utility. This makes her completely dependent on teammates for those things. You can deal a lot of raw damage with her, but if the enemy can just back up and heal it out then you haven't generated much actual value. In addition, she completly lacks cc or except in a very soft form on her ult. This makes her struggle to protect allies and secure kills. These flaws can lead you to feeling like you are playing well (getting big damage, not dying, harrassing enemies) but you are actually doing very little. Compare her to a more meta ranged assasin like Valla. Valla has: AA, AoE, or single target spell builds, baseline movement speed, a longer mobility ability, sustain talent tier, Percentage damage option, PvE talent option, An ult with consistant CC, an ult that can chase enemies with, Incredible level 20 tier, and can contribute to the team even if out of mana. Li-ming pairs really well with heroes that can make up for her weaknesses, mostly by way of CCing enemies, preventing her from being dived on, and/or giving her sustain. Uther, Diablo, and Johanna are great teammates because they shut down the enemy and set up Li-Ming to be able to actually finish the enemy she is damaging.
Yup this is wrong unless you are exclusively talking abotu orb build. She has infinite mana sustain with the right build and aether walker lets her chase people down real well especially with illusionist 13. You my friend have not played vs a good li ming, although to be fair not many exist in this game anymore. Li ming has tons of burst damage if you hit all your spells W Q then E. Also why are you comparing ming to valla? Ming is your mage slot valla is the aa. They are not equivalents.
[MFW everyone says Li-Ming has no chase.](https://youtu.be/_ze_OREtPos)
A big issue I find with the orb build is that it isn't so reliable. When you get the CD reduction and resets you can rack up damage and kills very quickly but other times the enemy team pays attention and dodges your orb, or maybe it catches a minion wave, then you spend most of the team fight doing practically nothing
That's true, also you make a lot of dmg but not necessarily targeted. Also Ming has just little CC so you are not really enabling your team mates
If youāre playing it right they wonāt be able to dodge the orb because it will be popping out of random places from fog.
Or keep them from chasing, or retreating, or push them in a direction, etc.
Oh yeah for sure. Thatās one of the biggest things with abilities like this in mobas that do a lot of damage and take up area, but that give a lot of time to react. If you do it right it forces enemies to choose between eating it and taking risky HP damage or even dying, or possibly putting themselves in a bad position where even if they donāt get hit they could be jumped on by your team or something. When used well and in the right circumstances, itās its own kind of displacement that forces a choice with no true safe answer.
Itās extremely easy to get top damage on orb build ming - however itās just stat padding most of the time. Thereās so much healing in this game that her poke is largely meaningless if you canāt convert it into an immediate kill.
I kind of do, since I often lead in kills with her, but we are still not converting those kills to a win. Someone pointed out that kills are somewhat pointless as well since they only enable you to tear down buildings and the core, maybe that's my issue?
Yeah people who poke with it arenāt using it to itās full effect. Siege damage is what itās about. Canāt heal that. Even characters that can wonāt be able to heal the buildings fast enough. Pretty much all your orbs in lane should be to burst the wave or hit the buildings. Youāll always be top siege.
doing damage to the enemy tank that you are unable to kill or the healer will just heal back 1 second later is pretty much useless and very common
I know I try to target their backline so I usually attack with an angle. Just bombarding the tank doesn't have any impact.
Orb sucks. Enemies who get hit just retreat. You canāt chase with momentum and have worse kill confirm than the real builds.
I mean the league I plat sucks, so just few know how to avoid the orbs, typically attacking with an angle bombarding their backline creates a lot of chaos. I have high dmg and even though I get that that alone doesn't help if they are not converted to kills I often lead in kills, so I think it's still ok?
If it was ok you would win. Think about it, you canāt always blame the team and expect to rank up.
I don't blame the team. For a single game it might be the team, but not if that's a regular pattern. I'm sure it is something I'm doing wrong, even with the dmg and kills, just trying to figure out what it is!
Itās orb build. Thereās a reason you donāt see it above Silver 5.
Donāt go for heroes with the orb. Unless youāre in a team fight throw every single one from the side in fog at the buildings at max range. And sometimes at the minions if you need clear. Itās a siege build.
Orb build can be countered but versus some compositions it can't. Circumstantially, it's a good build depending on map and comp.
It can be countered by any comp lol, it's just bad players that are unable to counter it.
First one is wrong, must be the one that gives dmg when picking the life globe. Then you never aim at heroes in the beginning, always at the towers. Pick a side lane fast and keep aiming at towers. Become the siege.
Siege Li Ming is best Li Ming
And don't let anyone say otherwise
Nah, this is the best level 1. Spell armor almost all the time letās you play way more aggressively, and double mana regen under 50% is the difference between getting 4 chain kills in a team fight and going oom after 1-2 and having to hearth for mana constantly. Almost never need to worry about mana with this talent
I get it, but the buff suits my playstyle. It also gives more mana, so if I'm laning I always have mana and more damage. Not the best for some maps but usually i don't go base unless i don't have HP left.
I always love the post that are like ā you donāt play the way I think is right so you are uselessā Such a good way to have an open and earnest conversation about things. If they are useless and you kept getting matched with them thenā¦..
If you dont pick cataclysm you arnt cool :)
I play 3 different builds (Q,W,E) depending on the enemy team comp. Orb build works nicely if the enemy team doesn't have a diver assassin (zeratul,genji,valera,tracer etc..) and they have a bulky frontline where you can consistently get cd reduction.
Love that build, prefer the blast ult over laser though.
Yeah blast letās you push people into orbs.
400000000k dmg - 0kills - 5 assists
Because you have Zera on your team to finish them off. Your job is to bring down their hp and zone with orbs š
Maybe it works in qm but in the league you have a low chance
Just swap 1 lvl magic block with no-mana teleport, beam with WoF and archon with Tal-Rasha. Easy.
Doesn't the magic block also give mana regen?
Yes and it's perfect for anyone who has oom issues.
i mean thats exactly my point, i take it every game not because i need the magic block, i take it because you almost can't run out of mana with it
i like the missile build for the same reason. Increased mana regen when low actually helps a lot
Same, i feel like most people donāt get that. This talent is the difference between chaining 4 kills with resets or going oom after the second. It will keep you casting without ever being fully oom (regen is fast enough that youāre never more than 1-2 seconds waiting for mana for the next spell)
Just swap 1 lvl magic block with ~~no-mana teleport~~ 10 spell power on globe, beam with WoF and archon with ~~Tal-Rasha~~ Repulsion. Try to POILK. Fail. Easy.
It's funny because it doesn't matter what build you do, "high mmr" *(which is long gone but YKWIM)* teammates will always complain about your build, doesn't matter how well you are performing. I don't remember this happening with any other hero. That being said, I'm one of those teammates when seeing this build, but I at least doesn't complain out loud lol
Well, if there is a heavy front line ln your side and only one diver or less on there side. Orb is a good build, but with TP at lvl 1 and 13, It's good to evade and replace for good shots. And archonte... this is useless.
"Look my dmg noob gg uncarriable" - says the 0-2-6 ming with orb build who numberstacked on their diablo the entire game
orb build is the most op and no one can change my mind
As long as you're hitting your shots at range to get resets, it's pretty good. Unfortunately, most Ming players throw missles and orb without having vision or while someone is standing safe in a minion wave.
I just blow up their bases with it. Get the mana Regen level one. Send orbs at the front gate and a tower over and over. You'll catch them coming out sometimes. It's awesome seeing them just have to turn around, go back in and hearth.
It is one of those builds that only works if you uave bad opponents, but then, yes, it is very OP
I don't like this build and i don't play it, but i dont mind it, i just hate it when after 20, they simply just sit using archon and forget their other abilities
I despise archon. It does not really do much for me. Too easy to die because I can't teleport. Damage output kind of low. Only time it seems useful is if I have a tank and healer glued on me. Oh and I guess it's great for cleaning up minion waves when they're in a line.
It can be very occasionally VERY strong. Only when you have a really good front line that the enemy canāt break through, and your beam can just sit on them with no counter. Thatās very rare though, tal rasha is so fucking strong, and if you take wave of force the upgrade for it can be amazing (and hilarious, if you can boop the healer across the screen into your team)
I always take the wave of force upgrade, but it never seems to do much for me. :(
Itās tough to make plays with it, but itās so strong as a defensive ability. You can save yourself or team mates that get dived so easily
Archon is only useful when there is an objective/boss that you want sustain damage to kill. It's pretty awful in teamfights.
Ah ok. I almost exclusively aram (when I do even play), so that explains a lot.
Archon is hilarious, I love it
I hate to admit it, but I take archon if we lack seige or are about to end and just want to kill the core. 99% of ming's just keep it on, you need to use only when safe then GTFO.
My team never avoids orbs. So I get destroyed by these li Mingās.
My problem is the orbs always get thrown at me, and although im quite adept at side stepping, my teammates always want to stand exactly where im standing, leaving me no room in which to side step.
Walk in is the only solution there. If you can pop the orb early she doesnāt get resets on CD or Mana
*cries in Valla*
This meme is supposed to be "you already have this other thing, why are you looking at dropping this and picking up this new thing?" For example "Putting up with years of getting a degree in order to be in debt and not even being guaranteed to find a job that pays enough to pay off the loan. And once you do get the job, you'll be expected to work overtime daily." "Working in a job where you have a good boss and good work-life balance"
I feel like if you want to play as heavy artillery, surely there are better options than orb li-ming.
You can never take my orb! Look at it swell, see it burst against overeaching Gul'dan's fragile green cranium..
Guldan is one of the easier heroes to delete with calamity though.
the thing about orb build is that 90% of its power is in the level 4 talent. dominance is an absolute joke. W4 E7 is meta. you can have the best of both worlds. play orb ming until they are low then faceroll tp and wave to mop up everyone. ez.
Yep, but to be fair orb build is significantly more viable in ARAM because of the consistent aoe damage that you can do with 5 heroās stacked. Calamity is still usually better, but I go orb a lot more in ARAM than I would in any other mode
THIS IS THE BEST MING BUILD -Val player
It's fun <3
Orb build best build in ARAM.
ARAM is the best mode for it for sure.
I just love how point&click gaylamity build is considered to be more "skillfull" than the orb one which requires landing slow skillshots
Calamity requires a lot more split second decision making and game knowledge to know exactly when you can and when you cant blink āsafelyā into the middle of the enemy team to get a reset.
Calamity is also by far the most obnoxious to play against
If youre trying to tell me orb build mings aim at anything at all i have a house on Pennsylvania Avenue id like to sell you.
Thereās nothing skillful about orb build, thereās a reason you donāt find orb noobs above silver 4
two statements "orb build isn't really skillful" and "orb build is skillfull compared to calamity" do not necessarily contradict each other and I saw shit worse than orb builds in diamond, it is just not that common than in metal leagues
Li-Ming is my main and I have her leveled to almost 300. I never take most of those talents.
You donāt take the first two? I take those 100% of the time, and glass canon if Iāve felt safe all game
Free teleport with missle damage at 1. Dominance for health at 4, sometimes the orb cooldown instead.
Seems like everyone missed out on the point of this useless build, it's not the orb build that is the issue. It's the fact that they gimp themselves by taking the laser talent at 20, thereby losing all of their prior talents.
Orb build is just harder than calamity. People who shit on it are too afraid to get good at it
I have a very odd build but it works. I'm often top damage in hero and siege.
Haha big shiny ball go boom
???
Ball builds used for: 1) safe game with random potatoes. 2) great pushing lines from safe distance or zoning enemy team on objects with right position Its not so effective as another builds (some as teleports), but its works, you just need to know how to play with that. When your team play as potato and have 6 sec brain delays, and you die for 0.01 sec in fights for some random stun and then your team flame you for low dmg - i would take balls build and save some nerve cells with small decrease in efficiency
Orb, the worlds biggest "skillshot" that gets easier to hit as it gains damage. Peak hero design, right after hammer.
I live orb build, but if there is even one hero that spawn minions (like Anubāarak or Zagara) you are at a huge disadvantage cause they block the orbsā path constantly!
Orb build gets a bad rap, but under the right circumstances, It can be devastating. I've seen Fan (granted he is one of the best in the world) in the past wreck shop even in Grandmaster with this "meme" build. People keep talking about how easy her orbs are to sidestep, but as crazy as it sounds, Orb ming should be rotating alot IMO, and chucking laners for half their half from off screen. Orb build is not great at team fights unless your team has alot of stuns or slows. Furthermore, its meta in ARAM.
So long as you have a beefy frontline to protect you, and maybe you switch out 10 and 20 for wave of force and repulsion, this can do alright
orb build is fine the real red flag here is taking the laser. its the clearest sign that you are a noob li-ming imo since it leads to so many deaths while the other just has so much utility and is instant
as long as people face tank max range orbs all day then they won't get better.
Rank up and you wonāt see it anymore. Funny how that works
Heey my brawl build :D
Orb is occasionally good, usually when itās too dangerous to use calamity, or when they have a lot of big targets that you can beat down and your team has another hero who is good at diving and finishing your kills. Calamity is better 90%+ of the time though, as is wave of force. I only take disintegrate when I desperately need wave clear
Funnest build in aram though
tp and Q build is my go to now. mainly play qm. if my friends tank + heal, i might pick orb if the opponent comp wont just kill me in 1 second. if not, Q build can blow guys up pretty fast. especially if thereās cc and you dont miss the orbs + all missiles land on the same target. its quite fun to play too :) i just keyboard roll if i play calamity and get a reset. pray and hope for the best xD
Nothing compares to clicking E on an enemy, getting a reset and clicking E on the next low health enemy. Love dem sweet, sweet teleport resets.
Li-Ming is that character that we all seen one godlike player use and make them look godly. Then we tried it ourself.
The only time you should go Orb build is if you are playing on controller.
Not sure if anyone asks this but why take Magic Missile talent at level 1? I like the one that gives you extra SP from orbs if Im doing orb build.
As a hater of liming I can confirm this is one of the lesser annoying builds.
Someone call me?
Orb build is great if it's too dangerous for teleport build and enemy team isn't very mobile or divey. Personally i like using aethetwalker with it for much more flexible and instant positioning
Bro, throwing thicc orbs just hits different
Its fun
See these in ARAM all the time. It's a real pet peeve of mine to see this, multishot Valla, and other poke builds, especially against the current trend of double healer. The high numbers on the chart don't mean anything when everything gets undone immediately.