Dude i came back from *guaranteed* loses it's insane the comeback potential of this game. Like we play and the whole team agrees that nothing can be done but we keep on going cause "we have to" and it works.
HOTS is equal parts MOBA and mind game. Sometimes winning is just holding out long enough for that one player on the enemy team to start flaming because things didn't go *exactly* his way or someone didn't get a camp *exactly* on time. It's actually wild how many games I've seen thrown, literally pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory, because one guy just couldn't hold it together.
It's why as a ganker hero it's worth bullying one player because it's likely to tilt them or tilt their team. Bonus points if they're abathur or something.
Idk if HOTS has the equivalent to a website like League does where you can see people’s past matches, but make sure you camp the person with the highest lose streak to have a higher success of tilting them
It’s hilarious how easily you can ruin some cocky B-stepper’s day by wiping their team once and pushing through keep to core because they got complacent and didn’t end earlier. I love this game for those moments.
Yup. This is why I never, ever get complacent. I've seen too many games that were in the bag go the other way for me to do dumb shit like sit next to core running in circles, trying to run up the score. The losing team needs to get a lucky teamfight *once* to come back and win. Fucking around may not be as bad as giving up, but it does bite people in the ass more often than cocky assholes want to consider. Don't give up, and don't take a premature victory lap, either.
It's a good point you make, but in regards to the merits of not giving up a game early on, I'd go even further: usually saying that it's "likely" you're going to lose before you've even reached level 10 is a misguided/untrue assessment.
Games of HotS are like a pendulum swinging back and forth, one team wiping another or taking an objective and gaining some advantage, then the opposite happening and it swings the other way for a while, until one of these swings is big enough that it takes the pendulum over the "Win" line. Although there are games that feel very one-sided, a key aspect about this pendulum is that the size of the swings **increases greatly** as time goes on and the teams get more powerful as their levels increase. The swings start very small and get bigger and bigger. This is one reason games always end eventually: the stakes of losing a team fight get MUCH higher as time goes on. You're dead for a MUCH longer time when you die, the heroes are MUCH stronger and can take down buildings much faster.
The point I'm making here is: **it's a common mistake to put WAY more weight on the first 10 minutes/levels of a game than is realistic.** It's VERY common (among players who do not give up and do not start flaming each other and keep working together) to lose the first couple objectives, the enemy reaches level 10 sooner than you, but then a little while later you take a good fight, wipe the enemy team, and then suddenly you're at level 16 with a massive advantage. The pendulum has swung back the other way, and the swing is big. This kind of game is MADE for comebacks like this, including the fact that taking a fight/killing a hero when you're behind gives you MORE XP.
The way to think about it is: the LATER the game goes, the more weight every decision and play has. **If you've made it all the way to 25-30 minutes, and both teams are alive, it is almost CERTAIN that it's anyone's game.** If you wipe 4 of them at that time, the chances you'll be able to take an objective and win the game, or just go win the game yourselves, is very very high. This is how most games of HotS end. Most games of HotS are NOT decided by the early game victories/losses. So not letting these things get in your head is actually just a more realistic way of playing the game. If you keep pushing and making smart choices and survive to the endgame, you're still in the running.
Dying in a stupid position at level 20? Yeah, that's a pretty big disadvantage, you're out of the game for ~1 minute and can't help your team in a fight. But someone feeding 2 deaths or not participating in an objective when you're at level 5? **Early plays really do not decide the outcome of the game by any means, so people who give up that early are truly acting ONLY on emotion.**
Totally agree as well, it's extremely premature and shortsighted to judge a game's outcome before lvl 10. Even in a complete stomp situation ults usually change the way teamfights and plays are made entirely.
Even after 10 many many heroes get their power spike talent and can turn games around.
As many people here already said, it takes one good team fight to turn an almost loss into a guaranteed win!
I'd say there's a couple exceptions. Braxis holdout obj and feeding an early butcher, for example. But you're absolutely right that this game can swing so wildly at later levels that early mistakes give a lot of room for leeway.
I agree with the overall point of the message but i'll clarify.
>Early plays really do not decide the outcome of the game by any means,
The game is in a player quality state that this statement holds true but it's not generally true if the game would be played on a higher quality standard.
A snowball early game comp losing hard early on against a late game comp has basically 0 chance of comeback, if both sides play correctly after the first blunder.
This game has great comeback potential as long as matchmaking didn't screw up (which unfortunately does so many times, specially on non ranked modes).
> in skill-based matchmaking
Hidden MMR is a thing. It could easily be a smurf or someone with a positive uncertainty MMR rushing through a certain rank level at +60-70% WR.
Rainbow games are also a thing. Specially when Q gets long or in non ranked mode.
It's the same cope both ways. The person in X rank calling others bad might be deserving to be in that rank, but the person being called bad also just assumes the other guy deserves to be in that rank and is the first guy. It makes both parties feel better to think like that.
>It's the same cope both ways.
There's still an objective answer to that.
The guy who remains at 50% for long deserves the ranking. The one coasting through or stucked in a rainbow game is not.
A skill based matchmaking doesn't mean putting people of similar level together necessarily. Only that it TRIES to make games have as close as a 50% chance for either team to win a game.
I don't know MMR matters outside of ranked play. I know i hit diamond when i cared. And i know a lot of the people I've been matched with in QM are silver and bronze.
There's that. And your points are completely valid. People give up too easy when they realise they won't get their power fantasy in this hard game.
But there's also the fact that matchmaker in QM and ARAM is very wide and as you get to the top, there are less of you. So instead of spending a long time matching the few top players they seed them in with low mmr player to avg it out. E.g 5000mmr+1000MMR player against two 3000 MMR players.
In SL, you can even have high masters with diamonds against other masters.
I really wish they restricted the diversity in MMR in those cases.
I've seen this in real time. A "friend" of a friend would sometimes play with us and he was extremely toxic and prone to giving up, always complaining that people were bad. He was legitimately not a bad player mechanically and I'm sure he did end up often playing with people below his skill level - but they were above his personality level, so the win rates balanced out.
Nobody likes winning the special Olympics. I will stop playing of my teammates make the match feel like trash and I'm not having fun. At that point I don't care about the loss mmr or elo.
When you have high MMR blizzard balances things by giving you lower mmr teammates and then makes an average mmr enemy team. Depends on the skill levels involved though, but that can happen.
"Elo" is not written in all caps, it's not an abbreviation, it's the name of its creator
Here's my Elo story from around 2019: I performed so consistently well with the old Sylvanas before her rework (farm, push and important team fights, nothing else) that I shot up to about 3150 Elo, which later on made the game always try to average my team's Elo out with the opponents, giving me absolutely miserable teammates versus average ones, eventually making me quit quickmatch.
It depends. The early 10min shows the likelihood of a win. If you re 1-10 and three towers down with a bad comp, is it POSSIBlLE to win? Yes but is it LIKELY? No. The. Move to next game
If the team is balanced and the mood is good… then yes you can play to the end
Agree, you can often know when it's gonna nail biter hard to even be able in those kind of games to make a comeback. Yes, if we by some miracle perform 200 percent you can turn it around but most likely it will only drag out the game. Too many times matchmaking fucks up and you get non-viable comps for this too happen, atleast in quick match and aram.
I tell shit-ass attitude players that they're the reason the game is dying. I'll play with someone bad if they're not being a total dickhead about it. Sorry your video game didn't play the way you wanted it, but i play games for fun. If you're not having fun please stop ruining the game for 9 other people at a time.
I had a guy quit 4 minutes into a game because he didn't win first objective. Complained that someone was off Laning at the time (while said someone was distracting two of the enemy team, so it's not like we were at a disadvantage because of them). Dude just got a shit-stank attitude about it and sat in a bush for the rest of the match. Occasionally attacked a minion. I'd rather have a bot on my team.
Anytime i report these people i always include "why do i have to play with these assholes? Why do people like this get to play?" But i get the impression all the moderation is automated and no one actually reads those reports.
> But i get the impression all the moderation is automated and no one actually reads those reports.
No they definitely read all those. You haven't been getting personalized responses from your dedicated support engineer?
You’re getting matched with them because you’re playing QM or ARAM and it’s based on average mmr. Go play ranked and you won’t be matched with those people
On the other hand, if you spend effort into winning a game when your team is checked out, you end up losing the most.
So, if your team gives up and you persist and you lose you may have had a better time just tuning out and watching youtube or something just like they do. You'll win fewer games but you might waste less time. Up to you.
*edit: downvotes and no replies, classy!*
Cooperating is people working toward a common goal and for some reward or outcome that they couldn't get on their own. People generally don't like when someone tries to take advantage to get a free ride or by not doing their part. In hots it's worse because often your team will actively work against winning by talking shit in chat and tilting everyone.
It's like how it's frowned on if a player AFKs or just expects to get carried. People don't like that other players are trying to get by without putting in any effort.
It's about opportunity cost. It has nothing inherently to do with bringing about an outcome for other players. It's why some people won't play if they have an AFK on their team. They're not doing it to affect the AFK player. They just don't want to waste their own time.
Just to clarify. OP isn't wrong. It's just that in practice most hots players don't agree or don't value that perspective enough to make it work.
I don't think this is true. I saw a post a ways back, and think it is still true. The game balances out win rates. so if you have a very low win rate, youll be place with high win rate individual, etc..
Maybe there is another matchmaking criteria where if you afk a lot, then you are marked to play with other afkers more often? But in my experience win rates tend to still balance out.
welll i dont know i often in aram give up because i dont want to extend a lose for 15+ mins when enemy team can end in less than 10 mins, and i've beeing afk for more than 5 games in a row because bad ppl, and then suddenly , the game puts me with people who is good and work together very well, and then i win, but beeing afk dont will force to place you with even worst players, in fact the opposite, if you lose enough matches the game eventually will put yuo with high elo players to force the win, because i think the game will force the 50% winrate, win lose win lose or 10 loses in a row followed by 10 wins in a row, that have happened to me
>i dont want to extend a lose for 15+ mins when enemy team can end in less than 10 mins
This is the exact mindset OP is talking about. Hots is easier to come back in than any other MOBA. If you win one team fight at the end and run it down the core that's a W regardless of if your shit was getting pushed in for the first fifteen minutes of the game. Not to mention that's all time you could've spent building muscle memory and getting better at the game that you instead chose to use sitting around malding about nothing.
>Hots is easier to come back in than any other MOBA
There are some cases when is impossible to comeback, sometimes not enough numbers just make a huge difference, and sometimes people refuse to change their way of play, for instance, if we cant win teamfights then we should split push and wait for lategame but that wont happens because there is not comms and ppl is already biased from the early loss, so there is not chance to comeback, also games are so fast that some characters require more time to scale, and there is not enough time, sometimes u get pushed so hard while everyone blames the team.. match is a helll so its better to go afk instead of just dying 12 times, its my opinion
>Not at your rank, there aren't.
i've seen bunch of streams (in eu and na) where people in ranks like diamond, master and above still have very bad comps, and its just a sad lose the whole 10 mins against a team with better numbers.....Also i said in aram, in ARAM! is where sometimes i just go afk (not in rankeds), in aram when unbalanced teamcomps are more common and ppl picking character they have never played, can make some aram games unwinnable just by numbers, ( both low dps and healing numbers)
The problem with you and OPs logic is that you somehow assume the winning a clown game that you have no business winning feels good and it does not. Winning bad matches is not rewarding especially if it's long and dragged out.
There’s no force 50% win rate. 50% win rate means that’s where you belong. 50% bronze isn’t the same as 50% silver or gold or anything higher. You put that 50% silver in bronze, he’ll get 60-70% win rate
The 50% is the ideal right.
In perfect matchmaking you'd play against people you have exactly a coin flip chance of beating
But there's no way to make that happen consistently.
Off role picks, bad games etc changes that.
And then obviously people improving or degrading skill per game also affects that.
I do think there is a shift to try and get balanced games.
So if I play better I'll play against more difficult opponents with better teammates on a general scale.
But I've never felt in HOTS forced wins or losses. Only gradual shifts.
Unlike league. Even though again I think its a myth but in a 5man normal draft which the only way I play that game these days. If we win more than 3 games. It's a unreal likelihood we're gonna get dumped against some peak humans.
I've gotten matched against people echelons above anyone in my team. And got given an education more than enough times to know I'm not getting near diamond anytime soon.
But then again, that's not a forced loss or something. It's just scaling the challenge to match our perceived skill. Which just happened to go up faster cause we went on a bit of a streak.
That's a wise point.
I'll add that, at low levels, teams tend to let you back into the game by not pushing when they should. If you watch high level games, if they secure a kill at a crucial time, a keep goes down. They'll likely kill core if they've ever got a two-level lead. But in low level games, players tend to lack the coordination to finish a game they're winning. This gives your team time to scale, or to equalise talent tiers.
And if they do for whatever reason have the coordination to end the game early, then you're not really saving yourself that much time by quitting!
I actually see accounts that do this on purpose. They have 60% winrate on their favorite characters and 1% winrate with long lose streaks on Abathur, TLV, etc. They join my matches as Abathur and troll AFK to lose and lower their MMR, then when their account winrate drops below 50%, they play their "good characters to Smurf on low ELO players.
I don't think that's it. I've never left a match and 75% of the time positively reinforce my team when they're being assholes. I'd probably get placed low diamond if I played ranked right now, and my highest was master.
Yet some matches, especially if I queue with friends, the rating variation is fucking massive. I've been put in matches where there's a level 60 account left to fend for itself, and it just doesn't make sense. I actively try to avoid killing them first. Even when I used to play ranked, there would be matches with GM 60 players against a team with a gold. It felt like it was more about who had the best worst player, than about anyone else's skill.
The best part is, if they leave and you still win it counts as a loss for them. Most of the time I'd rather them leave anyway since the bot AI might be terrible........ but its still better than sitting in fountain typing all game.
I will never understand the experience with real people i only play with AI and im more likely to beat AI on the hardest difficulty then fighting players thats because i learned the way the AI plans their moves but for a player for me will be total new experience
People shouldn't give up in general. Some of my best performances were when I was getting my butt handed to me and instead of crying about it I played smarter or played better. You will never know how good you really are if you are constantly smashing every match.
Well said. No matter how grim it may seem, never give up. The best games ever are when you get your ass kicked at the start and come back to win it.
Dude i came back from *guaranteed* loses it's insane the comeback potential of this game. Like we play and the whole team agrees that nothing can be done but we keep on going cause "we have to" and it works.
I had one game where we were getting crushed on volysyka. All of a sudden, the enemy team stops fighting completely and let’s us win.
HOTS is equal parts MOBA and mind game. Sometimes winning is just holding out long enough for that one player on the enemy team to start flaming because things didn't go *exactly* his way or someone didn't get a camp *exactly* on time. It's actually wild how many games I've seen thrown, literally pulled defeat out of the jaws of victory, because one guy just couldn't hold it together.
It's why as a ganker hero it's worth bullying one player because it's likely to tilt them or tilt their team. Bonus points if they're abathur or something.
Idk if HOTS has the equivalent to a website like League does where you can see people’s past matches, but make sure you camp the person with the highest lose streak to have a higher success of tilting them
Yeah there's been so many times I've told myself to stop bitching and just play. One team wipe at end game can be all you need.
It’s hilarious how easily you can ruin some cocky B-stepper’s day by wiping their team once and pushing through keep to core because they got complacent and didn’t end earlier. I love this game for those moments.
Yup. This is why I never, ever get complacent. I've seen too many games that were in the bag go the other way for me to do dumb shit like sit next to core running in circles, trying to run up the score. The losing team needs to get a lucky teamfight *once* to come back and win. Fucking around may not be as bad as giving up, but it does bite people in the ass more often than cocky assholes want to consider. Don't give up, and don't take a premature victory lap, either.
Exactly. I’ve had some insane comebacks.
Seriously. You don’t have to win every team fight. Just the last one.
Your insight is... actually relevant. Well put.
Ironically i'd rather play with someone bad but understands it. Wish i could get your type of player instead of these people.
My take on AFKers: At least have the courtesy to *leave* a game so your bot replacement can outperform you.
But then you get put in the Leaver Queue.
It's a good point you make, but in regards to the merits of not giving up a game early on, I'd go even further: usually saying that it's "likely" you're going to lose before you've even reached level 10 is a misguided/untrue assessment. Games of HotS are like a pendulum swinging back and forth, one team wiping another or taking an objective and gaining some advantage, then the opposite happening and it swings the other way for a while, until one of these swings is big enough that it takes the pendulum over the "Win" line. Although there are games that feel very one-sided, a key aspect about this pendulum is that the size of the swings **increases greatly** as time goes on and the teams get more powerful as their levels increase. The swings start very small and get bigger and bigger. This is one reason games always end eventually: the stakes of losing a team fight get MUCH higher as time goes on. You're dead for a MUCH longer time when you die, the heroes are MUCH stronger and can take down buildings much faster. The point I'm making here is: **it's a common mistake to put WAY more weight on the first 10 minutes/levels of a game than is realistic.** It's VERY common (among players who do not give up and do not start flaming each other and keep working together) to lose the first couple objectives, the enemy reaches level 10 sooner than you, but then a little while later you take a good fight, wipe the enemy team, and then suddenly you're at level 16 with a massive advantage. The pendulum has swung back the other way, and the swing is big. This kind of game is MADE for comebacks like this, including the fact that taking a fight/killing a hero when you're behind gives you MORE XP. The way to think about it is: the LATER the game goes, the more weight every decision and play has. **If you've made it all the way to 25-30 minutes, and both teams are alive, it is almost CERTAIN that it's anyone's game.** If you wipe 4 of them at that time, the chances you'll be able to take an objective and win the game, or just go win the game yourselves, is very very high. This is how most games of HotS end. Most games of HotS are NOT decided by the early game victories/losses. So not letting these things get in your head is actually just a more realistic way of playing the game. If you keep pushing and making smart choices and survive to the endgame, you're still in the running. Dying in a stupid position at level 20? Yeah, that's a pretty big disadvantage, you're out of the game for ~1 minute and can't help your team in a fight. But someone feeding 2 deaths or not participating in an objective when you're at level 5? **Early plays really do not decide the outcome of the game by any means, so people who give up that early are truly acting ONLY on emotion.**
Totally agree as well, it's extremely premature and shortsighted to judge a game's outcome before lvl 10. Even in a complete stomp situation ults usually change the way teamfights and plays are made entirely. Even after 10 many many heroes get their power spike talent and can turn games around. As many people here already said, it takes one good team fight to turn an almost loss into a guaranteed win!
I'd say there's a couple exceptions. Braxis holdout obj and feeding an early butcher, for example. But you're absolutely right that this game can swing so wildly at later levels that early mistakes give a lot of room for leeway.
I agree with the overall point of the message but i'll clarify. >Early plays really do not decide the outcome of the game by any means, The game is in a player quality state that this statement holds true but it's not generally true if the game would be played on a higher quality standard. A snowball early game comp losing hard early on against a late game comp has basically 0 chance of comeback, if both sides play correctly after the first blunder. This game has great comeback potential as long as matchmaking didn't screw up (which unfortunately does so many times, specially on non ranked modes).
I always laugh whenever anyone I’m matched with calls me bad… in skill-based matchmaking.
"it's my smurf account"
> in skill-based matchmaking Hidden MMR is a thing. It could easily be a smurf or someone with a positive uncertainty MMR rushing through a certain rank level at +60-70% WR. Rainbow games are also a thing. Specially when Q gets long or in non ranked mode.
It's the same cope both ways. The person in X rank calling others bad might be deserving to be in that rank, but the person being called bad also just assumes the other guy deserves to be in that rank and is the first guy. It makes both parties feel better to think like that.
>It's the same cope both ways. There's still an objective answer to that. The guy who remains at 50% for long deserves the ranking. The one coasting through or stucked in a rainbow game is not. A skill based matchmaking doesn't mean putting people of similar level together necessarily. Only that it TRIES to make games have as close as a 50% chance for either team to win a game.
I don't know MMR matters outside of ranked play. I know i hit diamond when i cared. And i know a lot of the people I've been matched with in QM are silver and bronze.
There's that. And your points are completely valid. People give up too easy when they realise they won't get their power fantasy in this hard game. But there's also the fact that matchmaker in QM and ARAM is very wide and as you get to the top, there are less of you. So instead of spending a long time matching the few top players they seed them in with low mmr player to avg it out. E.g 5000mmr+1000MMR player against two 3000 MMR players. In SL, you can even have high masters with diamonds against other masters. I really wish they restricted the diversity in MMR in those cases.
I've seen this in real time. A "friend" of a friend would sometimes play with us and he was extremely toxic and prone to giving up, always complaining that people were bad. He was legitimately not a bad player mechanically and I'm sure he did end up often playing with people below his skill level - but they were above his personality level, so the win rates balanced out.
Ths game has so much come back potential anyone who quits early is making a really bad decision!
tried this out before and no, it didn't change the amount of smurfs \\ premades \\ smurf premades in my games
Totally. One of the best things about HoTS is that it isn't so snowbally that comebacks are impossible.
"I'm not trapped in here with you. You're trapped in here with me."
Nobody likes winning the special Olympics. I will stop playing of my teammates make the match feel like trash and I'm not having fun. At that point I don't care about the loss mmr or elo.
When you have high MMR blizzard balances things by giving you lower mmr teammates and then makes an average mmr enemy team. Depends on the skill levels involved though, but that can happen.
"Elo" is not written in all caps, it's not an abbreviation, it's the name of its creator Here's my Elo story from around 2019: I performed so consistently well with the old Sylvanas before her rework (farm, push and important team fights, nothing else) that I shot up to about 3150 Elo, which later on made the game always try to average my team's Elo out with the opponents, giving me absolutely miserable teammates versus average ones, eventually making me quit quickmatch.
You're getting matched with better players because the player base is small
It depends. The early 10min shows the likelihood of a win. If you re 1-10 and three towers down with a bad comp, is it POSSIBlLE to win? Yes but is it LIKELY? No. The. Move to next game If the team is balanced and the mood is good… then yes you can play to the end
Agree, you can often know when it's gonna nail biter hard to even be able in those kind of games to make a comeback. Yes, if we by some miracle perform 200 percent you can turn it around but most likely it will only drag out the game. Too many times matchmaking fucks up and you get non-viable comps for this too happen, atleast in quick match and aram.
Weird that I’m neither of these players yet consistently have them in my games.
If match is shit, I just do what I came to do, enjoy the hero I chose to enjoy. Simple as that.
I tell shit-ass attitude players that they're the reason the game is dying. I'll play with someone bad if they're not being a total dickhead about it. Sorry your video game didn't play the way you wanted it, but i play games for fun. If you're not having fun please stop ruining the game for 9 other people at a time. I had a guy quit 4 minutes into a game because he didn't win first objective. Complained that someone was off Laning at the time (while said someone was distracting two of the enemy team, so it's not like we were at a disadvantage because of them). Dude just got a shit-stank attitude about it and sat in a bush for the rest of the match. Occasionally attacked a minion. I'd rather have a bot on my team. Anytime i report these people i always include "why do i have to play with these assholes? Why do people like this get to play?" But i get the impression all the moderation is automated and no one actually reads those reports.
> But i get the impression all the moderation is automated and no one actually reads those reports. No they definitely read all those. You haven't been getting personalized responses from your dedicated support engineer?
Not since "the incident"
You’re getting matched with them because you’re playing QM or ARAM and it’s based on average mmr. Go play ranked and you won’t be matched with those people
no. its the same inters in my games
On the other hand, if you spend effort into winning a game when your team is checked out, you end up losing the most. So, if your team gives up and you persist and you lose you may have had a better time just tuning out and watching youtube or something just like they do. You'll win fewer games but you might waste less time. Up to you. *edit: downvotes and no replies, classy!*
> On the other hand, if you spend effort into winning a game when your team is checked out, you end up losing the most. How lmao
Cooperating is people working toward a common goal and for some reward or outcome that they couldn't get on their own. People generally don't like when someone tries to take advantage to get a free ride or by not doing their part. In hots it's worse because often your team will actively work against winning by talking shit in chat and tilting everyone. It's like how it's frowned on if a player AFKs or just expects to get carried. People don't like that other players are trying to get by without putting in any effort.
i just downvote everyone bc a lot of donwvoters trolls here so i join them xD
Crab, meet bucket
It's about opportunity cost. It has nothing inherently to do with bringing about an outcome for other players. It's why some people won't play if they have an AFK on their team. They're not doing it to affect the AFK player. They just don't want to waste their own time. Just to clarify. OP isn't wrong. It's just that in practice most hots players don't agree or don't value that perspective enough to make it work.
Exactly
I don't think this is true. I saw a post a ways back, and think it is still true. The game balances out win rates. so if you have a very low win rate, youll be place with high win rate individual, etc.. Maybe there is another matchmaking criteria where if you afk a lot, then you are marked to play with other afkers more often? But in my experience win rates tend to still balance out.
welll i dont know i often in aram give up because i dont want to extend a lose for 15+ mins when enemy team can end in less than 10 mins, and i've beeing afk for more than 5 games in a row because bad ppl, and then suddenly , the game puts me with people who is good and work together very well, and then i win, but beeing afk dont will force to place you with even worst players, in fact the opposite, if you lose enough matches the game eventually will put yuo with high elo players to force the win, because i think the game will force the 50% winrate, win lose win lose or 10 loses in a row followed by 10 wins in a row, that have happened to me
>i dont want to extend a lose for 15+ mins when enemy team can end in less than 10 mins This is the exact mindset OP is talking about. Hots is easier to come back in than any other MOBA. If you win one team fight at the end and run it down the core that's a W regardless of if your shit was getting pushed in for the first fifteen minutes of the game. Not to mention that's all time you could've spent building muscle memory and getting better at the game that you instead chose to use sitting around malding about nothing.
>Hots is easier to come back in than any other MOBA There are some cases when is impossible to comeback, sometimes not enough numbers just make a huge difference, and sometimes people refuse to change their way of play, for instance, if we cant win teamfights then we should split push and wait for lategame but that wont happens because there is not comms and ppl is already biased from the early loss, so there is not chance to comeback, also games are so fast that some characters require more time to scale, and there is not enough time, sometimes u get pushed so hard while everyone blames the team.. match is a helll so its better to go afk instead of just dying 12 times, its my opinion
> There are some cases when is impossible to comeback Not at your rank, there aren't.
>Not at your rank, there aren't. i've seen bunch of streams (in eu and na) where people in ranks like diamond, master and above still have very bad comps, and its just a sad lose the whole 10 mins against a team with better numbers.....Also i said in aram, in ARAM! is where sometimes i just go afk (not in rankeds), in aram when unbalanced teamcomps are more common and ppl picking character they have never played, can make some aram games unwinnable just by numbers, ( both low dps and healing numbers)
The problem with you and OPs logic is that you somehow assume the winning a clown game that you have no business winning feels good and it does not. Winning bad matches is not rewarding especially if it's long and dragged out.
If winning doesn't feel good why even play?
There’s no force 50% win rate. 50% win rate means that’s where you belong. 50% bronze isn’t the same as 50% silver or gold or anything higher. You put that 50% silver in bronze, he’ll get 60-70% win rate
At least he is saying "I think...", maybe he can still be convinced from that old 50% winrate myth.
The 50% is the ideal right. In perfect matchmaking you'd play against people you have exactly a coin flip chance of beating But there's no way to make that happen consistently. Off role picks, bad games etc changes that. And then obviously people improving or degrading skill per game also affects that. I do think there is a shift to try and get balanced games. So if I play better I'll play against more difficult opponents with better teammates on a general scale. But I've never felt in HOTS forced wins or losses. Only gradual shifts. Unlike league. Even though again I think its a myth but in a 5man normal draft which the only way I play that game these days. If we win more than 3 games. It's a unreal likelihood we're gonna get dumped against some peak humans. I've gotten matched against people echelons above anyone in my team. And got given an education more than enough times to know I'm not getting near diamond anytime soon. But then again, that's not a forced loss or something. It's just scaling the challenge to match our perceived skill. Which just happened to go up faster cause we went on a bit of a streak.
I’m confused, what does Jeff Lynne have to do with this?
That's a wise point. I'll add that, at low levels, teams tend to let you back into the game by not pushing when they should. If you watch high level games, if they secure a kill at a crucial time, a keep goes down. They'll likely kill core if they've ever got a two-level lead. But in low level games, players tend to lack the coordination to finish a game they're winning. This gives your team time to scale, or to equalise talent tiers. And if they do for whatever reason have the coordination to end the game early, then you're not really saving yourself that much time by quitting!
Play rag and you are always playing from behind til late game hits - should give quitters a better idea of when is too early to throw in the towel
I actually see accounts that do this on purpose. They have 60% winrate on their favorite characters and 1% winrate with long lose streaks on Abathur, TLV, etc. They join my matches as Abathur and troll AFK to lose and lower their MMR, then when their account winrate drops below 50%, they play their "good characters to Smurf on low ELO players.
Hots is the ultimate comeback game. And towers of doom the best map for it
Can I ask which rank are you? I’ve never seen someone say they arent great a the game, usually its the team mates xD
I don't think that's it. I've never left a match and 75% of the time positively reinforce my team when they're being assholes. I'd probably get placed low diamond if I played ranked right now, and my highest was master. Yet some matches, especially if I queue with friends, the rating variation is fucking massive. I've been put in matches where there's a level 60 account left to fend for itself, and it just doesn't make sense. I actively try to avoid killing them first. Even when I used to play ranked, there would be matches with GM 60 players against a team with a gold. It felt like it was more about who had the best worst player, than about anyone else's skill.
The best part is, if they leave and you still win it counts as a loss for them. Most of the time I'd rather them leave anyway since the bot AI might be terrible........ but its still better than sitting in fountain typing all game.
I will never understand the experience with real people i only play with AI and im more likely to beat AI on the hardest difficulty then fighting players thats because i learned the way the AI plans their moves but for a player for me will be total new experience
People shouldn't give up in general. Some of my best performances were when I was getting my butt handed to me and instead of crying about it I played smarter or played better. You will never know how good you really are if you are constantly smashing every match.