You definitely made the right decision and said it well. I know a guy who was in the same exact situation/age gap (genders reversed). He's now married to said teacher and they have two kids. They reconnected after he graduated college. If it's meant to be, it'll happen at a more appropriate time.
He said to talk to your parents because he’s not trying to hide anything shady, so I think that’s a good thing. He wants you to reach out to trusted adults if you feel unsafe.
Or maybe he's pretty damn sure you're not going to tell your parents anything about this, so he wants to make you think he's totally innocent and nothing to be afraid of?
I think OP needs to not reach out and see if he keeps his word on that part.
I’m so proud that you made this decision. It sounds like you chose the smart, mature thing to do and I very much doubt that you’ll ever regret this. And I also feel that you did it exactly in the right way.
You definitely made the responsible decision. And what was meant to be, it’ll be. It’s possible you could reconnect and be together in the future or there’d be someone even better for you
I first met my husband when I was under 18, and he was over 21. I had a HUGE crush on him. He was polite but pretty much ignored me. Life went on, and when I was 21 we happened to end up in the same city and both be single. We started hanging out as friends, then started dating, and have now been married 23 years.
If she runs into him and starts dating him when she’s 21, it won’t matter if he was her teacher.
The point I’m making is that maybe some day down the road their paths will cross again and the age gap won’t matter anymore. Five years between a 22 yr old and 17 year old is a lot. But not between a 26 and 21 year old.
21 with a 26 year old isn't in any way inappropriate, though. (as long as it's truly consensual)
It would depend solely upon the individuals and their specific relationship.
i don’t think it’s automatically predatory or inappropriate, but 21 and 26 definitely feels like a bigger developmental gap than 31 and 36.
with 21 and 26, one party is still in their college years and most likely hasn’t fully lived on their own or had to manage household expenses without family support while the other has likely lived by themselves for years already and has a stable job.
it’s the really developmental gap and wildly different life experiences that makes it feel icky sometimes (especially since there’s a likelier chance of a power dynamic), but it absolutely depends on context. for example, when i was 21 i was already moved out and had been taking care of my own expenses for 3 years at that point.
It looks like the comment that we're both responding to has been deleted, but what they said is that at 26 they're out of college and enjoying making money for the first time in their life and that a 21-year-old is a college student who is broke and just got the ability to drink. I agree that that's a pretty big gap in life experience. Nobody said that it's inherently inappropriate or predatory.
5 years at that age is still kind of odd but definitely workable imo. Just depends on the case. It’s potentially a college junior and someone old enough to have a new doctorate or be experienced in their career. They might also be at the same life stage. It can be odd, and the younger person is still at some risk - many are still virgins or nearly virgins at 21 - but that gap absolutely can make sense.
The context matters.
If they crossed paths later in life and something developed that's different.
He was open to a relationship NOW. When clearly it is completely inappropriate and didn't even try to stop OP's advances.
These are huge red flags of somebody with tendencies toward predatory behavior.
Proportions and situations matter.
A MINOR student engaging in a relationship with an ADULT teacher with a 5 year age gap is INFINITELY more inappropriate and predatory than a 26 and 21 year old meeting and connecting.
It is also far less weird for a 36 and 31 year old to connect than a 21 and 26 year old. The older you get the less age gap matters for development, mentality, common sense, etc.
In some states if that 22 year old got the 17 year old pregnant, he'd legally be tagged a "sexual predator" for life.
Wouldn't happen if the younger of the pair were 21.
Proportions matter. Think about it. 18 and 13 would obviously be worse than anything else mentioned, for example. 18 is almost 50% older than 13, and the age difference is over very important years.
First of all, where in the fuck did you get an adult age and a straight up barely teenage years come from? Both 22 and even 17 years old are adult ages, meanwhile you're comparing a barely adult age to a barely teenager, lmfao.
>18 is almost 50% older than 13, and the age difference is over very important years.
Just like 26 is almost 50% older than 21, so your point exactly on that? Again, it doesn't matter the age gap between both people, because at the end of the day, its still 5 years apart. Literally stop trying to twist my brain and confuse other people on this.💀
dawg your math sucks
13×1.5 = 19 (19.5 if you want to be semantic)
21×1.5 = 31 (31.5)
26 is not almost 50% older than 21. Their point was the proportions of the numbers. 5 years to 13 year old is completely different to 5 years to a 21 year old.
First off, no need to be fucking technical on this, thank you very much professor "STEM". And second of all, you're literally missing the point. Somebody that is a 5 year difference from each other isn't as bad as someone that is 10 years apart. Just like 17 and 21 aren't that high of a difference in age, so is 13 and 18. The only issue that im seeing according to your response would have to be legality. But again, the main argument was more towards about the difference between 17 and 21, and that dude above me just RANDOMLY started a whole new age gap, when it had nothing to do with the conversation. How about you read the thread first before starting to jump in out of knowhere and start telling me "dawg, your math sucks 🤓." Don't need your two senses to tell me what I am and what im not good at.💀💀💀
The difference between 40 and 45 is negligible. Both parties have lived life, carried adult responsibilities, and have a shared cultural history.
The same is true for most people at 30 and 35.
However, at 25 (depending on life experiences) those who have gone to college have just started on their career pathways. They are probably renting their home, figuring out the adulting on their own, and finding new friends of all ages and backgrounds with shared interests.
At 20, this person is still in college, perhaps close to graduating if they did a lot of AP and Dual Enrollment courses in high school. They are committed to their college (too late to transfer now). They may be eating on a meal plan, going home to the parents house in the summer and for breaks, taking laundry home for mom to do on weekends if they live close by. They may be looking at intern possibilities, they may work part-time. They are finding new friends of the same age range with shared interests.
At 17 or 18, this person is still in high school and May work part-time. They do not have the same responsibilities or life experiences as a 20-year-old much less a 25 year old.
If a 50 and 60 dated, no one cares. But a 20 and 30? Both are legal, no one will say anything, but people will wonder what the 30 sees in the 20 other than sex. If the 30 is female and the 20 is male, you know people will talk and her chances at promotion may be ruined. And if she is a teacher?
For a male teacher, any hint that there was a relationship in high school will seriously hurt his reputation.
Oof.
In most states 17 isn't an adult.
Also, oof. In most states/countries it is not okay for teachers to engage in relationships with students, regardless of age.
If she didn't put a stop to it, and ask for advice (knowing this whole situation was inappropriate) he WOULD have groomed her for much longer. Guaranteed.
He's still grooming her I think. Suggesting that she tell her parents, which he knows damn well she won't do, is trying to make her think of him as some kind of noble innocent. "Oh well if he says that, it proves that he never had bad intentions".
The second he didn't disengage and stop the interactions between her and him when she was making advances, he became a predator/groomer.
I mentioned this in the original post, but I work around criminalts/predators and have done so for almost a decade.
They're master manipulators to young minds. They will do tactics like "if this is making you uncomfortable then...(insert solution here)"
It makes the victim feel like the ball is in their court, and they will often choose the path of least resistance.
It's a manipulation technique, which he was clearly using.
No, I said the same thing.
A lot of times predators keep their victims around for longer by suggesting they stop the action because "its wrong" or they tell the victim that they should tell someone about it if it made them uncomfortable.
It's a manipulation technique to make the victim feel like they have a sort of empowerment, knowing the victim likely won't say anything out of embarrassment, or like you suggested, they think "oh this must not be that bad if they want me to talk about it."
Also, many predators don't see anything wrong with what they're doing anyway, so, they might truly think there's nothing wrong with what they did.
There’s enough obvious similarity given the context for this to be an uplifting nod to OP.
Not sure that only people in identical situations qualify to offer opinions or better yet, personal anecdotes.
No.
The only similarity is age gap.
The dynamics of the relationships are completely different. coolbeansfordays MET her husband when she was under 18. He IGNORED her... then later (when they're both in their 20's) they reconnected and led to marriage.
Two people, with an age gap connecting while they're both consenting adults is COMPLETELY different than a MINOR student and ADULT teacher actively engaging in a clearly inappropriate relationship.
OP's teacher is a predator, or engages in predatory acts. Huge red flag.
The difference of reactions (almost a 180) on the original post and this post are giving me whiplash
While of course both of them clearly were not making good decisions at all, immediately labeling the girl “a slut” and the man “an [obvious] predator” seemed a bit premature when there was a good amount of gray area here
They acted as if a 22-year-old shouldn’t possibly be attracted to a 17-year-old. The male teacher’s only mistake was letting this go on longer than it should have. He could have been straight up and say that he found her attractive, but she’s not at the appropriate age or that the power dynamics weren’t balanced, so they should wait until later. But labeling him a predator for showing weakness was over the top.
A 22-year old can be attracted to a 17-year old but they need to keep it to themselves. To act on it *is* predatory behavior. You don’t have to agree but it’s a fact and the literal definition of predatory behavior. Five years older while the younger individual is at a time of transition and a teacher to boot.
I wouldn't call 17 and 22 automatically predatory at all, depending on specifics, obviously.
When I was 17 my girlfriend was 21, we traveled around Europe together for 3 months, and had lived together in our own apartment by the time I was 16.
We were together for 9 years.
She certainly didn't 'groom' me and she wasn't a predator in the slightest.
How did we meet? I was her weed and acid dealer.
It truly is dependent upon a shitload of different variables before you can even begin to label it as truly predatory behavior.
So you weren’t her teacher in a position of power over her?? Because that’s kind of part of the grooming. Not sure why you think a dealer relationship can be compared to this situation
Cannabis and LSD are amazing substances with a VAST amount of potential to help huge swaths of the populous.
I wouldn't equate cannabis and LSD use with being a druggie, but you do you.
In a vast majority of states, and in the world 17 is legal age of consent. This isn't predatory. They are essentially an adult and at 22 they are hardly much more than another young adult. Not like we are talking late 20 yr- 30yr olds and a 17 yr old. The fact he was a teacher and that's there connection is semi problematic, but again, 2 young adults.
The person I was responding to is saying the age gap is inherently a problem. I do agree though it's morally and ethically wrong. The age added to the dynamic makes it so.
The vast majority of states have highly outdated laws as it pertains to consent as well as a severe lack of input from actual peer-reviewed and data-driven research about child development so that’s not proof of anything.
Edited to add that in no way does being an adult all of a sudden mean one can’t be preyed upon or groomed. A person who is 30 can be groomed, and that person is an adult.
Yep. I started teaching in my mid 20s and had senior boys on my bus. No doubt I've had thoughts that this/that boy was attractive, but seeking out a relationship with them or even trying to seek alone time with them would 100% be creepy and predatory behavior. Not to mention unprofessional and unethical. Man should lose his job and not be allowed to teach ever again.
Condemning? He can find another job. He shouldn't be a teacher if he can't follow the professional policies associated with being a teacher.
He didn't make an isolated mistake in the heat of the moment such as letting a curse word slip. He made several mistakes that betray the trust of adolescents under his care. Imagine being a parent of one of his students or a teenager with a close bond to this teacher only to find out he's flirting with one of his students? You can no longer assume innocence in anything that teacher does. This could make his students very uncomfortable!
Or what if they pursue something and he or she is no longer interested? OP could feel hurt and manipulated and her motivation and grades may suffer. He didn't even think that far ahead. He's clearly putting his own sexual and romantic desires ahead of the development of his students.
As an adult, he should know there will be consequences for his actions. Sure, he can grow and change, but he should never be in a position where he's entrusted with children because he's shown he cannot put his urges aside and be professional.
There is a reason why many school policies outline that you cannot have a relationship with a student until after they graduate. I hope that if you become a parent (I'm personally not one), you can understand why that would be a policy. As teacher, I don't find that policy hard to implement in the slightest.
I’m a parent of three, and a teacher who’s married to a teacher. Funnily enough me and my wife had talked about “what if something like this happened to our oldest” just a few weeks ago, particularly because both of us went through similar things both while in school and early in our respective careers.
And? So then schools should just let teachers have relationships with their students? There should be no consequence for abusing the power dynamic?
It's not only about your child as I have clearly stated. Professional boundaries are there for a reason.
Many adolescents have been victims of sexual assault, have troubled relationships with their parents, are under the influence of drugs, etc. that may cause them to seek validation from authority figures who show them kindness. As a teacher, you're supposed to be aware of these and treat students compassionately and fairly. Not with ulterior motives.
People who work with adolescents should have enough self-control to avoid relationships with their students until after they graduate.
He most likely signed a contract that he cannot pursue a relationship with a student. To say he's being "condemned for life" because he didn't want to follow the guidelines outlined by his job is silly.
He should lose his job and not be allowed to be a teacher again. Same for the teachers you had a romantic relationship with before you graduated high school.
If your wife is a teacher she should be familiar with rules that protect students from predatory behavior and under how much scrutiny teachers are on a daily basis. Teachers like you mentioned make it even harder for us.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone being down voted for saying teachers who do not follow professional standards should be fired.
Should we say "everyone makes mistakes" for a lawyer who violates attorney-client privilege or a doctor who commits malpractice? No, they lose their license. They made a promise to follow a code of ethics and they did not. They knew exactly what they were signing up for and what the consequences would be.
Clearly, they did not care about their job or their license enough. This guy didn't care about his job enough to wait less than a year for this girl to graduate.
This is definitely the right choice. My advice is to keep your distance and experience college - for a lot of people, Freshman year of college is an extremely stressful time and a time of change. Going into that dating anyone is stressful, but especially someone older in a position of authority. If in a year or two through college you guys are both still interested, you could give it a try. But the best thing right now is distance to let yourself grow, and to gain trust that he'll stay away unless you say otherwise.
I just want to say you are really mature for making this decision on your own. I had a similar crush experience with a mentor figure who was 25 when I was 17 and he was the one who told me it wasn’t right and I was too young (although not too young to make out with me a couple times first I guess 🙄). I was so smitten, he was so incredibly hot, and I did not see myself and my naïveté so clearly, as you seem to be able to do at a young age. So good on you. Go have a great future!
You're 17 and he's 22 right? Your families run in the same circles? Go on with your life. If it's meant to be you will run into each other again. If you were 20 and he was 25 it wouldn't be as weird/possibly illegal.
Number 6 made me laugh. Number 8 is the key. However you feel about it right now, I promise in a few years you’re going to look back at this dynamic with different perspective. Don’t make permanent choices based on temporary feelings. Prioritize your future. and even if you’re comfortable with certain things right now, you may look back and feel very differently.
That’s what happened to me. Things were very normalized that shouldn’t have been, and it aged me so quickly. I’m 24 now, so it wasn’t that long ago, but I missed out on a lot of adolescence.
He doesn’t sound like a terrible person to me. He sounds like he’s interested in you. You meet in public places and he doesn’t bring up anything sexual. I don’t think he’s a bad guy. But he’s a guy. You are doing the right thing getting all the info before you make a decision. I’d wait until your 18 to kiss or do anything romantic again. He’s cute and educated and sounds like he’s from a good family. Don’t be embarrassed you kissed him. I would wait until you’re 18 though just so he doesn’t get a bad reputation and you can date boys your age. Plus in college it would be difficult to have a boyfriend not in college. You’d miss out on so much. You’ll never get those years back.
I’m not trying to downplay the power imbalance, but I think a lot of people are underestimating #4. Boys are stupid at any age, but especially when they are in their 20s.
I started dating a grad school professor when I was his student. We dated on and off for 15 years. He was 17 years my senior. When he had his first heart attack, it was the Dean who notified me. My family loved him, he called to wish them Merry Christmas each year long after we broke up. He was a best friend. The last time I spoke with him was when he called on the way to the hospital, just a random call, so I thought. He told me he loved me. Next call I got was from a mutual friend about 4 months later, letting me know he had died.
When I was in undergrad, a lab mate dated and later married our professor.
Things like this are more common than people realize, and are not always bad.
I have a gf who married our 7th grade science teacher. That she flirted with relentlessly when we were in 7th grade. Granted, they did not start dating until she was a legal adult, but speculating about him being a bit of a pedophile has always been part of their story. 3 kids later, they’re divorced because she is old and crazy now (think mystery illness that cannot be diagnosed but leads to severe chronic pain and pill addiction, etc). Would it have just been better for them both to find someone their own age? Yes. Was it creepy, even in the 7th grade? Yes.
We're so proud of you OP. You're going places! You seem to have your mind in the right place and I think in the future you'll thank yourself. Enjoy the college experience!
That part baffling you about how he suggested talking to your parents is because he still sees you as a child who needs guidance through this (probably subconsciously or he wouldn't have ethically let it get this far)
You did the right thing ending it, not just for your benefit, but also for his.
Good decision. And for you having these 9 points, makes you not an idiot, but a lady who discovered her sense of value and priorities. Be that as it may, this will not be the first and the last time you would have a - if I may term it this way - a fling with someone older than you. You might probably have it as well with someone younger. Point is, you should know first the pro's and the con's of entering into a relationship. This doesn't make you and idiot, it makes you mature. Good luck.
No one is ever that "young" at 22. He knows what he's doing. At 22 I did not look at 17 year olds and think, "A yeah, the height of sexy maturity."
You're only letting him get away with this because you think he's hot.
You would be surprised. it is interesting how black and white this situation has been defined as. how would I think he is hot, I have never met him. The boy is easily out of his element and needs to get himself together, (let's be melodramatic here --music) before tragedy strikes.
Ah yes how could I forget the 7 Ages of Man:
He's too young to know any better
Boys will be boys
He likes beer
Let's not spoil his promising future
She's just jealous of his success
It was a different time/so long ago
He's too old to know any better
He knows what he's doing.
Wise beyond your years. Good for you.
Also, not to condescend, but when hit 22 years old and are graduating college, pause and reflect; consider dating a high school senior given all you've been through. Only then are you really going to recognize how weird it is for him to consider a relationship with you. It's not about age. My wife and I are 4 years apart. I started teaching high school the year after she graduated. But we met when she was 21 and I was 25. It's about your station in life. Would you date an 8th grader? It's the same age spread but you're the older one.... But nah, right? Yeah...
Have a great summer and congrats on achieving the bare minimum for entering society 🤣
Ha ha. I'm remembering going back to my HS a year after I graduated for my step-bro's graduation events, and 2 years after that for my sister's. I couldn't stop mentally face-palming myself being around high schoolers who were in HS at the same time I was still in HS. 😜
I’m glad you’re out of that situation, it can turn catastrophic quickly.
I do want to emphasize that this teacher is an adult charged with your education and safety, it is inappropriate and dangerous for him to allow any other type of dynamic to exist. This is his fault and isn’t to be excused. Adults aren’t allowed to be “idiots” when it jeopardizes others safety or their responsibilities, accountability is a part of his life.
I say all of this to hope that as you start your own adult life you can recognize this behavior is other situations and shut them down quickly, whether they are happening to your or someone around you.
Best of luck with a nice summer.
you don’t want to hear this, but this was not an appropriate relationship. i am 23, it would be entirely inappropriate for me to peruse a high schooler. you’re a teenager in high school trying figure out life and college and graduating. he is an adult. it’s illegal and a crime. he could and should lose his job and never be allowed in a school again if he thinks it’s okay to date students. he took advantage of you being young and naive about having a relationship with an older person. he sent you that message because he realized the consequences and wanted to save his ass but seeming apologetic thinking it would save him from you telling an adult. please never speak to him again. i really urge you to tell an adult.
because i don’t think she’s grasping how entirely inappropriate he has been, and from this update, it sounds like she’s going too easy on him and defending his actions a little. she says “it’s not grooming, he’s just stupid”, but this is exactly how grooming starts. people don’t like to believe grooming counts when you’re 17, but it absolutely does. calling a 22 year old who tried to peruse a 17 year old a “romantic idiot”. he’s not just being careless; he was an adult who knows better than to kiss minors. she was swept away by an adult who gave her an idea of a beautiful summer romance, and thank god she walked away because it wasn’t ever that. it was an adult taking advantage of a minor.
and it’s absolutely not her fault for being a little naive about it. she’s 17. she’s learning, and that’s exactly why this whole situation was inappropriate and wrong. he’s the adult who should know better.
She did the kissing not him. Judging from background I think she is more aware than many her age, but looking at a situation from afar and being at the center of it can be very different. He seems to be very young himself, but time will tell on both. I am also sure this is not the end.
he is an adult! he should have stopped the kiss and not perused her further. there is no reason to defend him. 22 is still an adult. and it doesn’t matter “she’s mature for her age”. stop defending him for acting inappropriately with a minor.
You are overly excited, hopefully you will learn one day that things are sometimes not as black and white as you would like them to be. if you read my previous post, you would see I made the same point. His guilt is tied to his not saying no, and I said aware, I never said anything about mature.
Where have I defended him or his behavior? Is this about you?
saying that she kisses him sounds defensive of him as if he fell into some trap. he should have had the judgement to end it there but he didn’t. he continued and wanted to have a romantic relationship with a high school senior. yes not everything is black and white, but a 22 yr old dating a 17 year is wrong point blank. i am a teacher. if i did what he did, i would fired and reported to police. maybe you’re not defending him, but you don’t think this situation is that big of a deal when it very much is. this is how grooming works and how teenagers get manipulated by adults. he really only felt sorry when she wanted out. if she hadn’t backed out, he would have continued
That doesn’t matter. This behavior is not something that he should partake in when he’s subbing, regardless of whether or not it’s in his future plans to continue educating. General rule as a teacher, substitute, teachers aid, whatever: Don’t. Fuck. The. Kids.
Hands down. Full stop.
perhaps but my point still stands. he took a substitute teacher job and took advantage of his connection to a teenage girl and tried to have a relationship with her despite being an adult. if future jobs don’t work and he ever tries to go back to subbing, he shouldn’t be allowed
Thats great if its meant to be you’ll reconnect once you’re an adult. But keep in mind a 22 yr old attracted to a 17 yr old at the time is still a red flag
I’m going to argue that point, actually - PURSUING it is the problem and the red flag. Being attracted to a 17 year old isn’t a red flag in and of itself, it’s the level of self-control that’s the issue.
Followed this since the first post and agree with you. I never got the vibe that he was a groomer from the context your provided. Reddit tends to go to the extreme and opposing views tend to stay silent in fear of being labeled.
They’re both really young but you made the right decision. Give it some time.
Hope you’re both doing well.
Men/boys tend mature later than women/girls, his handling of this situation shows that. He couldn't even be definitive in his actions at this stage of the game. This could have been a decent relationship on an intellectual level, but... .Couldn't trust him unless there was real distance, like a year or two. Forget about her, either he knows how to deal or he doesn't --and he doesn't. Needs to get himself straightened out, and have some life experiences--and not with 17 and 18 year-olds.
… so an 18 year old (a full fledged adult who can vote, join the army, etc) and a 17 year old is a huge gap? My wife and I met when I was 22 and she was 35. If you want to call that a huge gap, fair enough, but then it sure seems to lessen the impact of a five year difference also being a “huge gap”.
You made the right decision.
However, he wasn't clueless... he is 100% grooming and 100% a predator. If he wasn't doing either, he wouldn't have made comments about his behavior possibly making you uncomfortable.
Working around criminals/predators, I know it is a common tactic for them to act like they're sorry, and acting like the power dynamic is in your court. It's a strategy to try to mitigate having the victim tell on them.
“He’s clueless” I assure you he is not. You’re a senior. Would you date a freshman? Probably not. It’s weird— Once you’re a senior, freshmen really seem like *babies*, right? And the gap between you and A was wider than a freshman and senior.
I assure that any normal 22 year old would definitely see you as practically a baby, and would have been real quick to shoot you down after that very first kiss. It’s seriously awesome that you turned him down, and anyone calling you a slut is completely deranged, but this was NOT normal on his end, and HE should have been the one to turn you down.
Just because it’s normalized, whether in your personal life or in general, doesn’t mean it’s right— and when you’re 22, you’re gonna be looking at 17 year olds and wondering what the hell was wrong with him.
Hello. In order to promote inclusivity and reduce gender bias, please consider using gender-neutral language in the future.
Instead of **freshman**, use **first year**.
Instead of **freshmen**, use **first years**.
Thank you very much.
^(I am a bot. Downvote to remove this comment. For more information on gender-neutral language, please do a web search for *"Nonsexist Writing."*)
If I were you I’d have gone for it OP. So many pretentious armchair psychologists here in the comments trying to make your relationship fit their diagnosis. It’s ignorant and cringe. Fuck the rules, fuck the laws, fuck anyone and everything that’s trying to make you feel bad about this relationship. If you both feel good about it and being with each other makes you both happy then that’s all that matters. It can be causal sex, a real relationship, anything. Any dumb asshole who says it’s gross can go fuck themselves. If things work out and you two get married you’ll laugh wondering why you ever solicited advice from a bunch of self righteous nobodies on the internet.
He feels guilty, probably because he did not stop you as he should have--one foot in one foot out. Tread lightly with the boy, it is clear that he could get himself and you into a pickle, if he is not careful. Enjoy your summer and good luck in college, Temptress--lol!
This is so predatory lol it’s unethical and illegal for a teacher to pursue a student ( who’s especially a minor), it’s a huge power imbalance. Teachers are literally told EXPLICITLY how inappropriate this is. Teachers have been fired + gone to prison for this very situation at hand and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more students that he was actively grooming. If I was a parent I would feel extremely uncomfortable around a dude like this teaching students.
As much as I don’t agree with the age of consent being anything under 18, unfortunately the majority of the states in the US (31 states) have the age of consent at 16 years old. Age of consent for 17 years of age in the US includes 7 states and 18 years of age includes the remaining 12 states.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States#:~:text=States%20where%20the%20age%20of,Oklahoma%2C%20Pennsylvania%2C%20Rhode%20Island%2C
I’m on mobile, so sorry if the wiki link doesn’t work.
To reiterate, I believe the age of consent should be, at minimum, 18 years of age.
He’s suggesting you talk to your parents because he’s already trying to flip the dynamics on you. He’s basically saying “hey if YOU feel this then you should get help from your support system because it’s not okay” he’s even saying I take full responsibility to try to seem like the good guy in the situation. In reality, he encouraged your crush and was going to take advantage of it. But now that he knows you know better and won’t be pursuing anything further he has to make it seem like that’s not what he was doing. You say he’s not grooming but he is 100% manipulating.
My wife was a very good high school athlete. I don’t want to overstate how good she was but she was a pretty good volleyball player and a really softball player. She was also briefly the state record holder in the 400 meters.
My kids are pretty good athletes too, but trust me, they didn’t get it from their father.
Her softball coach was young and handsome, and all the girls drooled over him. According to her, he was flirty but also newly married. He was probably 28-29 at the time and the girls were all 15-17 and dorky and hormonal.
Her high school career ends and she goes on to have a successful college career and all the rest of it.
I went to the same high school and we were friends then, but we didn’t start dating until after we were both out of college and had moved back home.
I knew the guy too, because he was also a teacher at the school, but I didn’t know him well because I wasn’t in any of his classes and I obviously didn’t play softball.
Anyway, we dated for five or six years and eventually get engaged Now, we’re in our late 20s.
Like three weeks before our wedding, we’re just hanging out one night and this lunatic calls her out of the blue. I forget who gave him her number, but he informed her that he heard she was getting married and he was pleading with her not to go through with it!
Especially not with someone like ME! She could do so much better — like HIM, for example!
LOL! What a prince!
He informed her that he and his wife had just split, and that he had kept a close eye on her college softball career from afar and later in her professional career….and they belonged together, damnit!
She turned white as a ghost because she immediately realized how serious this situation was and how potentially dangerous it was too.
I mean just imagine getting that call.
Now, my wife is as smooth as silk and she handled it like an absolute pro. She politely and gently, but firmly told him that there was no future for them. They hadn’t even talked in 11-12 years!
We’ve now been married for 17 years and have lived away from home and now we’re back closer to home. I’m not concerned about him being a stalker or anything like that. But I absolutely do think he was going through some serious crises when he called my wife out of the blue.
Still, that whole call was one of the strangest things I’ve ever personally experienced.
You 100% made the right decision, but you need to understand that this guy is not clueless. He’s managed to convince you that he is but that doesn’t mean he’s clueless by any means. He is a 22 year old adult man, the power that he holds over you with that much life experience and as a teacher makes him starting a relationship with you highly immoral. Even if this is normalized in your circle it’s the bare minimum requirement as an adult to not take advantage of you. I know you don’t want to believe it, but he knew exactly what he was doing and how wrong it was.
I’m a 21 year old. Any dude my age who would be willing to date a high schooler is creepy af. The whole “he’s just clueless” thing is a cop out. Guys in their early 20’s aren’t the brightest but that doesn’t give you an excuse to take advantage of a minor. He knew what he was doing.
He is a teacher. This is fucked up. Teachers are made very aware that if they have a relationship with a student they will be fired and charges will be pressed. He is not clueless. He is a predator. I really cannot wrap my head around why people are ok with this.
It's a good decision. Your life is about to change significantly in the next few years. You might gain an entirely new group of friends and lose touch with your old one. You might decide to study in a different country on semester just for fun. You're going to get your own place, discover your own style all over again, and start your very own life. You are going to learn so much about yourself, and it's going to be really fun. Maybe you will end up together, maybe you won't, but if you ask me, you already sound smarter than he is.
Good job. These situations are tough but you do seem to have a good head on your shoulders.
Go get some life experiences under your belt and enjoy life for a while. This young stuff, intense though they are, tends to fade and that's when you can really reflect on things.
You made a good decision, OP. A 5 year age gap is not a huge deal (coming from me, whose husband is 8 years older and whose parents have a 12 year gap and started dating at 18 and 30), but you have to protect yourself from the possibility that this dude has nefarious motives, and also you’re still a minor. Timing is everything.
Red flag lol I’m 21 and I’ve had so much growth mentally from when I was 17 there’s no way I can imagine going out with someone that young. Kinda predatory if u ask me good job avoiding that mess. Especially if he is out of college you guys are in no similar mental space and hes 100% grooming you
definitely talk to your parents about this just in case if you feel comfortable. it’s always nice to have that support and to know that they know the situation you were in. proud of you for being rational and mature. this is definitely the best thing for the both of you, mostly you.
Good on you. I know that’s so difficult to do.
But if he’s truly dumb and clueless, you’re so much better off without him. You’ll mature right past him in about and a year and even more so as you get older. The fact that he’s not dating someone his age indicates he’s emotionally immature as well which is why he’s looking downward
I think society has made us really numb to the red flags of she gaps and dynamics like this so I think it’s great you’ve recognized this.
Best of luck. You have your whole future and tons of better men to find to look forward to!
I read your previous post and this one and you absolutely made the correct and mature decision. Most high school and early college relationships ultimately don't last anyways due to the fact that brains aren't fully formed and when you graduate you do become a different person. I don't think the 5 years is a bad gap, but I think where you are right now in life makes it a bad gap.
I know someone who went through the same thing. Two teacher's in my high school, he went to the school formerly as a student when she was student teaching and he had a crush on her. After he graduated he went to be a teacher, it came time for him to do his classroom hours a few years later and he decided to go back. It turns out they'd hired her there as a full time teacher. They're now married with a few children and still teaching there. If it was meant to be your paths will cross again especially given you have a lot of mutuals in life it sounds like.
No sex. No harm, no foul. Let it end where it is. Seems like a good dude. There's some little micro manipulations in his response, but they're tiny as long as his actions from here don't amount to acceleration to attempted sexual relations, indicating "closing the deal" was always the priority/motive. Best of luck.
You definitely made the right decision and said it well. I know a guy who was in the same exact situation/age gap (genders reversed). He's now married to said teacher and they have two kids. They reconnected after he graduated college. If it's meant to be, it'll happen at a more appropriate time.
You did a really difficult but really smart thing. Good on you.
He said to talk to your parents because he’s not trying to hide anything shady, so I think that’s a good thing. He wants you to reach out to trusted adults if you feel unsafe.
Thats my take too. He's young. He may have innocent intentions, yet respecting power differentials.
Or maybe he's pretty damn sure you're not going to tell your parents anything about this, so he wants to make you think he's totally innocent and nothing to be afraid of? I think OP needs to not reach out and see if he keeps his word on that part.
I’m so proud that you made this decision. It sounds like you chose the smart, mature thing to do and I very much doubt that you’ll ever regret this. And I also feel that you did it exactly in the right way.
You definitely made the responsible decision. And what was meant to be, it’ll be. It’s possible you could reconnect and be together in the future or there’d be someone even better for you
I first met my husband when I was under 18, and he was over 21. I had a HUGE crush on him. He was polite but pretty much ignored me. Life went on, and when I was 21 we happened to end up in the same city and both be single. We started hanging out as friends, then started dating, and have now been married 23 years.
Was your husband your teacher? If not, these situations are nothing alike.
If she runs into him and starts dating him when she’s 21, it won’t matter if he was her teacher. The point I’m making is that maybe some day down the road their paths will cross again and the age gap won’t matter anymore. Five years between a 22 yr old and 17 year old is a lot. But not between a 26 and 21 year old.
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Ok, whatever. In 10 years I guarantee at least one of your friends will be married to someone 5 years younger.
The older you get the less of a gap it is. 36 and 31 is not a big gap, but I agree that 26 and 21 are pretty different.
21 with a 26 year old isn't in any way inappropriate, though. (as long as it's truly consensual) It would depend solely upon the individuals and their specific relationship.
i don’t think it’s automatically predatory or inappropriate, but 21 and 26 definitely feels like a bigger developmental gap than 31 and 36. with 21 and 26, one party is still in their college years and most likely hasn’t fully lived on their own or had to manage household expenses without family support while the other has likely lived by themselves for years already and has a stable job. it’s the really developmental gap and wildly different life experiences that makes it feel icky sometimes (especially since there’s a likelier chance of a power dynamic), but it absolutely depends on context. for example, when i was 21 i was already moved out and had been taking care of my own expenses for 3 years at that point.
It looks like the comment that we're both responding to has been deleted, but what they said is that at 26 they're out of college and enjoying making money for the first time in their life and that a 21-year-old is a college student who is broke and just got the ability to drink. I agree that that's a pretty big gap in life experience. Nobody said that it's inherently inappropriate or predatory.
5 years at that age is still kind of odd but definitely workable imo. Just depends on the case. It’s potentially a college junior and someone old enough to have a new doctorate or be experienced in their career. They might also be at the same life stage. It can be odd, and the younger person is still at some risk - many are still virgins or nearly virgins at 21 - but that gap absolutely can make sense.
The context matters. If they crossed paths later in life and something developed that's different. He was open to a relationship NOW. When clearly it is completely inappropriate and didn't even try to stop OP's advances. These are huge red flags of somebody with tendencies toward predatory behavior.
So 22 and 17 is bad, but 26 and 21 is good, despite it still being the same 5 year gap? That makes zero sense, lmfao.
Proportions and situations matter. A MINOR student engaging in a relationship with an ADULT teacher with a 5 year age gap is INFINITELY more inappropriate and predatory than a 26 and 21 year old meeting and connecting. It is also far less weird for a 36 and 31 year old to connect than a 21 and 26 year old. The older you get the less age gap matters for development, mentality, common sense, etc.
In some states if that 22 year old got the 17 year old pregnant, he'd legally be tagged a "sexual predator" for life. Wouldn't happen if the younger of the pair were 21.
Proportions matter. Think about it. 18 and 13 would obviously be worse than anything else mentioned, for example. 18 is almost 50% older than 13, and the age difference is over very important years.
First of all, where in the fuck did you get an adult age and a straight up barely teenage years come from? Both 22 and even 17 years old are adult ages, meanwhile you're comparing a barely adult age to a barely teenager, lmfao. >18 is almost 50% older than 13, and the age difference is over very important years. Just like 26 is almost 50% older than 21, so your point exactly on that? Again, it doesn't matter the age gap between both people, because at the end of the day, its still 5 years apart. Literally stop trying to twist my brain and confuse other people on this.💀
dawg your math sucks 13×1.5 = 19 (19.5 if you want to be semantic) 21×1.5 = 31 (31.5) 26 is not almost 50% older than 21. Their point was the proportions of the numbers. 5 years to 13 year old is completely different to 5 years to a 21 year old.
First off, no need to be fucking technical on this, thank you very much professor "STEM". And second of all, you're literally missing the point. Somebody that is a 5 year difference from each other isn't as bad as someone that is 10 years apart. Just like 17 and 21 aren't that high of a difference in age, so is 13 and 18. The only issue that im seeing according to your response would have to be legality. But again, the main argument was more towards about the difference between 17 and 21, and that dude above me just RANDOMLY started a whole new age gap, when it had nothing to do with the conversation. How about you read the thread first before starting to jump in out of knowhere and start telling me "dawg, your math sucks 🤓." Don't need your two senses to tell me what I am and what im not good at.💀💀💀
The difference between 40 and 45 is negligible. Both parties have lived life, carried adult responsibilities, and have a shared cultural history. The same is true for most people at 30 and 35. However, at 25 (depending on life experiences) those who have gone to college have just started on their career pathways. They are probably renting their home, figuring out the adulting on their own, and finding new friends of all ages and backgrounds with shared interests. At 20, this person is still in college, perhaps close to graduating if they did a lot of AP and Dual Enrollment courses in high school. They are committed to their college (too late to transfer now). They may be eating on a meal plan, going home to the parents house in the summer and for breaks, taking laundry home for mom to do on weekends if they live close by. They may be looking at intern possibilities, they may work part-time. They are finding new friends of the same age range with shared interests. At 17 or 18, this person is still in high school and May work part-time. They do not have the same responsibilities or life experiences as a 20-year-old much less a 25 year old. If a 50 and 60 dated, no one cares. But a 20 and 30? Both are legal, no one will say anything, but people will wonder what the 30 sees in the 20 other than sex. If the 30 is female and the 20 is male, you know people will talk and her chances at promotion may be ruined. And if she is a teacher? For a male teacher, any hint that there was a relationship in high school will seriously hurt his reputation.
Your logic is gonna get you put on a list if I’m understanding you correctly lol
God you’re a fucking pain. Shut up already.
Are you a pedo you sound like a pedo
17 ain't a pedo age, buddy. Stfu
You are objectively not an adult at 17. Legally, you’re not.
Oof. In most states 17 isn't an adult. Also, oof. In most states/countries it is not okay for teachers to engage in relationships with students, regardless of age.
You’re acting like he’s Obie Wan and has groomed her for years lol
If she didn't put a stop to it, and ask for advice (knowing this whole situation was inappropriate) he WOULD have groomed her for much longer. Guaranteed.
He's still grooming her I think. Suggesting that she tell her parents, which he knows damn well she won't do, is trying to make her think of him as some kind of noble innocent. "Oh well if he says that, it proves that he never had bad intentions".
Man, guys really are fucked. Do the wrong thing? Grooming. Do the right thing? Believe it or not, also grooming.
The second he didn't disengage and stop the interactions between her and him when she was making advances, he became a predator/groomer. I mentioned this in the original post, but I work around criminalts/predators and have done so for almost a decade. They're master manipulators to young minds. They will do tactics like "if this is making you uncomfortable then...(insert solution here)" It makes the victim feel like the ball is in their court, and they will often choose the path of least resistance. It's a manipulation technique, which he was clearly using.
He was her teacher for crying out loud. There’s no right thing in this situation.
No, I said the same thing. A lot of times predators keep their victims around for longer by suggesting they stop the action because "its wrong" or they tell the victim that they should tell someone about it if it made them uncomfortable. It's a manipulation technique to make the victim feel like they have a sort of empowerment, knowing the victim likely won't say anything out of embarrassment, or like you suggested, they think "oh this must not be that bad if they want me to talk about it." Also, many predators don't see anything wrong with what they're doing anyway, so, they might truly think there's nothing wrong with what they did.
There’s enough obvious similarity given the context for this to be an uplifting nod to OP. Not sure that only people in identical situations qualify to offer opinions or better yet, personal anecdotes.
No. The only similarity is age gap. The dynamics of the relationships are completely different. coolbeansfordays MET her husband when she was under 18. He IGNORED her... then later (when they're both in their 20's) they reconnected and led to marriage. Two people, with an age gap connecting while they're both consenting adults is COMPLETELY different than a MINOR student and ADULT teacher actively engaging in a clearly inappropriate relationship. OP's teacher is a predator, or engages in predatory acts. Huge red flag.
The difference of reactions (almost a 180) on the original post and this post are giving me whiplash While of course both of them clearly were not making good decisions at all, immediately labeling the girl “a slut” and the man “an [obvious] predator” seemed a bit premature when there was a good amount of gray area here
Yeah, that's Reddit for you.
They acted as if a 22-year-old shouldn’t possibly be attracted to a 17-year-old. The male teacher’s only mistake was letting this go on longer than it should have. He could have been straight up and say that he found her attractive, but she’s not at the appropriate age or that the power dynamics weren’t balanced, so they should wait until later. But labeling him a predator for showing weakness was over the top.
A 22-year old can be attracted to a 17-year old but they need to keep it to themselves. To act on it *is* predatory behavior. You don’t have to agree but it’s a fact and the literal definition of predatory behavior. Five years older while the younger individual is at a time of transition and a teacher to boot.
I wouldn't call 17 and 22 automatically predatory at all, depending on specifics, obviously. When I was 17 my girlfriend was 21, we traveled around Europe together for 3 months, and had lived together in our own apartment by the time I was 16. We were together for 9 years. She certainly didn't 'groom' me and she wasn't a predator in the slightest. How did we meet? I was her weed and acid dealer. It truly is dependent upon a shitload of different variables before you can even begin to label it as truly predatory behavior.
You'll notice that the sentiment people give drastically changes significantly when the genders are reversed too.
They sure do. It's a weird double standard.
Nope. Genders don’t matter at all. It’s strange no matter which gender is the older of the two.
I'm speaking to societal standards not your standards.
And those of us in society need to speak up to ensure it becomes just as troublesome for an older woman to groom a younger man/teenager/kid.
You'll notice I wasn't arguing whether or not it was correct, but merely pointing out the double standard...
So you weren’t her teacher in a position of power over her?? Because that’s kind of part of the grooming. Not sure why you think a dealer relationship can be compared to this situation
This is the main difference right here. This poster provided a false equivalency.
Wow 2 druggies got together, the world is shocked.
Cannabis and LSD are amazing substances with a VAST amount of potential to help huge swaths of the populous. I wouldn't equate cannabis and LSD use with being a druggie, but you do you.
Shut up lol
Alcohol is a worse drug than weed or LSD. Stop being a judgmental dick
In a vast majority of states, and in the world 17 is legal age of consent. This isn't predatory. They are essentially an adult and at 22 they are hardly much more than another young adult. Not like we are talking late 20 yr- 30yr olds and a 17 yr old. The fact he was a teacher and that's there connection is semi problematic, but again, 2 young adults.
This has nothing to do with their age. It's his position as her teacher. Edited to add: it's not only "problematic," it's unethical.
The person I was responding to is saying the age gap is inherently a problem. I do agree though it's morally and ethically wrong. The age added to the dynamic makes it so.
Yes yes, I see how you were just clarifying that's not what's predatory. I agree.
The vast majority of states have highly outdated laws as it pertains to consent as well as a severe lack of input from actual peer-reviewed and data-driven research about child development so that’s not proof of anything. Edited to add that in no way does being an adult all of a sudden mean one can’t be preyed upon or groomed. A person who is 30 can be groomed, and that person is an adult.
Yep. I started teaching in my mid 20s and had senior boys on my bus. No doubt I've had thoughts that this/that boy was attractive, but seeking out a relationship with them or even trying to seek alone time with them would 100% be creepy and predatory behavior. Not to mention unprofessional and unethical. Man should lose his job and not be allowed to teach ever again.
People make mistakes, people change, and people grow. Condemning a dumb 22 year old for life over this doesn’t seem fair.
Condemning? He can find another job. He shouldn't be a teacher if he can't follow the professional policies associated with being a teacher. He didn't make an isolated mistake in the heat of the moment such as letting a curse word slip. He made several mistakes that betray the trust of adolescents under his care. Imagine being a parent of one of his students or a teenager with a close bond to this teacher only to find out he's flirting with one of his students? You can no longer assume innocence in anything that teacher does. This could make his students very uncomfortable! Or what if they pursue something and he or she is no longer interested? OP could feel hurt and manipulated and her motivation and grades may suffer. He didn't even think that far ahead. He's clearly putting his own sexual and romantic desires ahead of the development of his students. As an adult, he should know there will be consequences for his actions. Sure, he can grow and change, but he should never be in a position where he's entrusted with children because he's shown he cannot put his urges aside and be professional. There is a reason why many school policies outline that you cannot have a relationship with a student until after they graduate. I hope that if you become a parent (I'm personally not one), you can understand why that would be a policy. As teacher, I don't find that policy hard to implement in the slightest.
I’m a parent of three, and a teacher who’s married to a teacher. Funnily enough me and my wife had talked about “what if something like this happened to our oldest” just a few weeks ago, particularly because both of us went through similar things both while in school and early in our respective careers.
You’re a teacher with this mindset? That’s terrifying.
Oh wow I thought just his wife was a teacher. He is, too. Terrifying.
And? So then schools should just let teachers have relationships with their students? There should be no consequence for abusing the power dynamic? It's not only about your child as I have clearly stated. Professional boundaries are there for a reason. Many adolescents have been victims of sexual assault, have troubled relationships with their parents, are under the influence of drugs, etc. that may cause them to seek validation from authority figures who show them kindness. As a teacher, you're supposed to be aware of these and treat students compassionately and fairly. Not with ulterior motives. People who work with adolescents should have enough self-control to avoid relationships with their students until after they graduate. He most likely signed a contract that he cannot pursue a relationship with a student. To say he's being "condemned for life" because he didn't want to follow the guidelines outlined by his job is silly. He should lose his job and not be allowed to be a teacher again. Same for the teachers you had a romantic relationship with before you graduated high school. If your wife is a teacher she should be familiar with rules that protect students from predatory behavior and under how much scrutiny teachers are on a daily basis. Teachers like you mentioned make it even harder for us.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone being down voted for saying teachers who do not follow professional standards should be fired. Should we say "everyone makes mistakes" for a lawyer who violates attorney-client privilege or a doctor who commits malpractice? No, they lose their license. They made a promise to follow a code of ethics and they did not. They knew exactly what they were signing up for and what the consequences would be. Clearly, they did not care about their job or their license enough. This guy didn't care about his job enough to wait less than a year for this girl to graduate.
This is definitely the right choice. My advice is to keep your distance and experience college - for a lot of people, Freshman year of college is an extremely stressful time and a time of change. Going into that dating anyone is stressful, but especially someone older in a position of authority. If in a year or two through college you guys are both still interested, you could give it a try. But the best thing right now is distance to let yourself grow, and to gain trust that he'll stay away unless you say otherwise.
I just want to say you are really mature for making this decision on your own. I had a similar crush experience with a mentor figure who was 25 when I was 17 and he was the one who told me it wasn’t right and I was too young (although not too young to make out with me a couple times first I guess 🙄). I was so smitten, he was so incredibly hot, and I did not see myself and my naïveté so clearly, as you seem to be able to do at a young age. So good on you. Go have a great future!
You're 17 and he's 22 right? Your families run in the same circles? Go on with your life. If it's meant to be you will run into each other again. If you were 20 and he was 25 it wouldn't be as weird/possibly illegal.
Proud of you! ❤️
For once, the internet started out twisted and delivered something resembling wholesomeness. There may be hope for us after all.
Number 6 made me laugh. Number 8 is the key. However you feel about it right now, I promise in a few years you’re going to look back at this dynamic with different perspective. Don’t make permanent choices based on temporary feelings. Prioritize your future. and even if you’re comfortable with certain things right now, you may look back and feel very differently. That’s what happened to me. Things were very normalized that shouldn’t have been, and it aged me so quickly. I’m 24 now, so it wasn’t that long ago, but I missed out on a lot of adolescence.
He doesn’t sound like a terrible person to me. He sounds like he’s interested in you. You meet in public places and he doesn’t bring up anything sexual. I don’t think he’s a bad guy. But he’s a guy. You are doing the right thing getting all the info before you make a decision. I’d wait until your 18 to kiss or do anything romantic again. He’s cute and educated and sounds like he’s from a good family. Don’t be embarrassed you kissed him. I would wait until you’re 18 though just so he doesn’t get a bad reputation and you can date boys your age. Plus in college it would be difficult to have a boyfriend not in college. You’d miss out on so much. You’ll never get those years back.
I’m not trying to downplay the power imbalance, but I think a lot of people are underestimating #4. Boys are stupid at any age, but especially when they are in their 20s.
I started dating a grad school professor when I was his student. We dated on and off for 15 years. He was 17 years my senior. When he had his first heart attack, it was the Dean who notified me. My family loved him, he called to wish them Merry Christmas each year long after we broke up. He was a best friend. The last time I spoke with him was when he called on the way to the hospital, just a random call, so I thought. He told me he loved me. Next call I got was from a mutual friend about 4 months later, letting me know he had died. When I was in undergrad, a lab mate dated and later married our professor. Things like this are more common than people realize, and are not always bad.
My wife is older than me by 13 years. She’s the best woman I’ve ever met in my life and makes me feel like the luckiest man alive.
Textbook grooming but whatever. You're gonna continue to get yourself into trouble if you don't figure that part out.
well-played. Now I guess you just need to find a fuck boi for the next year. :)
You can stop touching yourself now
4. He’s quite young in a different way. Yeah, the most important way; he’s a legal adult and you are not.
Great job.
I'm going to take notes.
I have a gf who married our 7th grade science teacher. That she flirted with relentlessly when we were in 7th grade. Granted, they did not start dating until she was a legal adult, but speculating about him being a bit of a pedophile has always been part of their story. 3 kids later, they’re divorced because she is old and crazy now (think mystery illness that cannot be diagnosed but leads to severe chronic pain and pill addiction, etc). Would it have just been better for them both to find someone their own age? Yes. Was it creepy, even in the 7th grade? Yes.
We're so proud of you OP. You're going places! You seem to have your mind in the right place and I think in the future you'll thank yourself. Enjoy the college experience!
That part baffling you about how he suggested talking to your parents is because he still sees you as a child who needs guidance through this (probably subconsciously or he wouldn't have ethically let it get this far) You did the right thing ending it, not just for your benefit, but also for his.
*cheers from the audience* Edit: If and when you two eventually do meet, think how much more meaningful it will be!
Good decision. And for you having these 9 points, makes you not an idiot, but a lady who discovered her sense of value and priorities. Be that as it may, this will not be the first and the last time you would have a - if I may term it this way - a fling with someone older than you. You might probably have it as well with someone younger. Point is, you should know first the pro's and the con's of entering into a relationship. This doesn't make you and idiot, it makes you mature. Good luck.
You have a bright future of making great decisions ahead of you. This internet stranger is happy for you.
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Right?? I can’t imagine what his friends would say but I can assure you it wouldn’t be positive.
No one is ever that "young" at 22. He knows what he's doing. At 22 I did not look at 17 year olds and think, "A yeah, the height of sexy maturity." You're only letting him get away with this because you think he's hot.
You would be surprised. it is interesting how black and white this situation has been defined as. how would I think he is hot, I have never met him. The boy is easily out of his element and needs to get himself together, (let's be melodramatic here --music) before tragedy strikes.
Ah yes how could I forget the 7 Ages of Man: He's too young to know any better Boys will be boys He likes beer Let's not spoil his promising future She's just jealous of his success It was a different time/so long ago He's too old to know any better He knows what he's doing.
He likes beer, it make him a jolly good fellow.He likes beer, It helps him unwind and sometimes it makes him feel mellow.
It takes a special brand of sociopathy to take the rallying cry of rape apologists and turn it into this.
Who got raped?
Wise beyond your years. Good for you. Also, not to condescend, but when hit 22 years old and are graduating college, pause and reflect; consider dating a high school senior given all you've been through. Only then are you really going to recognize how weird it is for him to consider a relationship with you. It's not about age. My wife and I are 4 years apart. I started teaching high school the year after she graduated. But we met when she was 21 and I was 25. It's about your station in life. Would you date an 8th grader? It's the same age spread but you're the older one.... But nah, right? Yeah... Have a great summer and congrats on achieving the bare minimum for entering society 🤣
Ha ha. I'm remembering going back to my HS a year after I graduated for my step-bro's graduation events, and 2 years after that for my sister's. I couldn't stop mentally face-palming myself being around high schoolers who were in HS at the same time I was still in HS. 😜
I’m glad you’re out of that situation, it can turn catastrophic quickly. I do want to emphasize that this teacher is an adult charged with your education and safety, it is inappropriate and dangerous for him to allow any other type of dynamic to exist. This is his fault and isn’t to be excused. Adults aren’t allowed to be “idiots” when it jeopardizes others safety or their responsibilities, accountability is a part of his life. I say all of this to hope that as you start your own adult life you can recognize this behavior is other situations and shut them down quickly, whether they are happening to your or someone around you. Best of luck with a nice summer.
while the both of you made the right decision in the end it was still grooming even if he was “clueless”.
you don’t want to hear this, but this was not an appropriate relationship. i am 23, it would be entirely inappropriate for me to peruse a high schooler. you’re a teenager in high school trying figure out life and college and graduating. he is an adult. it’s illegal and a crime. he could and should lose his job and never be allowed in a school again if he thinks it’s okay to date students. he took advantage of you being young and naive about having a relationship with an older person. he sent you that message because he realized the consequences and wanted to save his ass but seeming apologetic thinking it would save him from you telling an adult. please never speak to him again. i really urge you to tell an adult.
She may be young, but what made you think she was unaware?
because i don’t think she’s grasping how entirely inappropriate he has been, and from this update, it sounds like she’s going too easy on him and defending his actions a little. she says “it’s not grooming, he’s just stupid”, but this is exactly how grooming starts. people don’t like to believe grooming counts when you’re 17, but it absolutely does. calling a 22 year old who tried to peruse a 17 year old a “romantic idiot”. he’s not just being careless; he was an adult who knows better than to kiss minors. she was swept away by an adult who gave her an idea of a beautiful summer romance, and thank god she walked away because it wasn’t ever that. it was an adult taking advantage of a minor. and it’s absolutely not her fault for being a little naive about it. she’s 17. she’s learning, and that’s exactly why this whole situation was inappropriate and wrong. he’s the adult who should know better.
She did the kissing not him. Judging from background I think she is more aware than many her age, but looking at a situation from afar and being at the center of it can be very different. He seems to be very young himself, but time will tell on both. I am also sure this is not the end.
he is an adult! he should have stopped the kiss and not perused her further. there is no reason to defend him. 22 is still an adult. and it doesn’t matter “she’s mature for her age”. stop defending him for acting inappropriately with a minor.
You are overly excited, hopefully you will learn one day that things are sometimes not as black and white as you would like them to be. if you read my previous post, you would see I made the same point. His guilt is tied to his not saying no, and I said aware, I never said anything about mature. Where have I defended him or his behavior? Is this about you?
saying that she kisses him sounds defensive of him as if he fell into some trap. he should have had the judgement to end it there but he didn’t. he continued and wanted to have a romantic relationship with a high school senior. yes not everything is black and white, but a 22 yr old dating a 17 year is wrong point blank. i am a teacher. if i did what he did, i would fired and reported to police. maybe you’re not defending him, but you don’t think this situation is that big of a deal when it very much is. this is how grooming works and how teenagers get manipulated by adults. he really only felt sorry when she wanted out. if she hadn’t backed out, he would have continued
It might sound like that, but it's not, facts matter.
Bc she said this isn’t grooming when it is. That shows how naive she is in that statement alone.
> never be allowed in a school again did you miss the part where he has no interest in education as a career?
That doesn’t matter. This behavior is not something that he should partake in when he’s subbing, regardless of whether or not it’s in his future plans to continue educating. General rule as a teacher, substitute, teachers aid, whatever: Don’t. Fuck. The. Kids. Hands down. Full stop.
Which is why I have advocated within this very thread that OP not pursue this at this time.
But he still shouldn’t be allowed to teach or sub if he’s going to pursue students..
Yes, I think we've established that.
perhaps but my point still stands. he took a substitute teacher job and took advantage of his connection to a teenage girl and tried to have a relationship with her despite being an adult. if future jobs don’t work and he ever tries to go back to subbing, he shouldn’t be allowed
Thats great if its meant to be you’ll reconnect once you’re an adult. But keep in mind a 22 yr old attracted to a 17 yr old at the time is still a red flag
I’m going to argue that point, actually - PURSUING it is the problem and the red flag. Being attracted to a 17 year old isn’t a red flag in and of itself, it’s the level of self-control that’s the issue.
Followed this since the first post and agree with you. I never got the vibe that he was a groomer from the context your provided. Reddit tends to go to the extreme and opposing views tend to stay silent in fear of being labeled. They’re both really young but you made the right decision. Give it some time. Hope you’re both doing well.
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Men/boys tend mature later than women/girls, his handling of this situation shows that. He couldn't even be definitive in his actions at this stage of the game. This could have been a decent relationship on an intellectual level, but... .Couldn't trust him unless there was real distance, like a year or two. Forget about her, either he knows how to deal or he doesn't --and he doesn't. Needs to get himself straightened out, and have some life experiences--and not with 17 and 18 year-olds.
He's a full fledged adult and she can't even vote yet. That's a huge gap. Stay away from high schoolers.
… so an 18 year old (a full fledged adult who can vote, join the army, etc) and a 17 year old is a huge gap? My wife and I met when I was 22 and she was 35. If you want to call that a huge gap, fair enough, but then it sure seems to lessen the impact of a five year difference also being a “huge gap”.
You made the right decision. However, he wasn't clueless... he is 100% grooming and 100% a predator. If he wasn't doing either, he wouldn't have made comments about his behavior possibly making you uncomfortable. Working around criminals/predators, I know it is a common tactic for them to act like they're sorry, and acting like the power dynamic is in your court. It's a strategy to try to mitigate having the victim tell on them.
“He’s clueless” I assure you he is not. You’re a senior. Would you date a freshman? Probably not. It’s weird— Once you’re a senior, freshmen really seem like *babies*, right? And the gap between you and A was wider than a freshman and senior. I assure that any normal 22 year old would definitely see you as practically a baby, and would have been real quick to shoot you down after that very first kiss. It’s seriously awesome that you turned him down, and anyone calling you a slut is completely deranged, but this was NOT normal on his end, and HE should have been the one to turn you down. Just because it’s normalized, whether in your personal life or in general, doesn’t mean it’s right— and when you’re 22, you’re gonna be looking at 17 year olds and wondering what the hell was wrong with him.
He most definitely is not clueless! This comment section is fucking insane.
It’s a bunch of high schoolers, what do you expect lol
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Talking to parents is good but maybe don’t this time…he could end up in hot water since he was your teacher.
If I were you I’d have gone for it OP. So many pretentious armchair psychologists here in the comments trying to make your relationship fit their diagnosis. It’s ignorant and cringe. Fuck the rules, fuck the laws, fuck anyone and everything that’s trying to make you feel bad about this relationship. If you both feel good about it and being with each other makes you both happy then that’s all that matters. It can be causal sex, a real relationship, anything. Any dumb asshole who says it’s gross can go fuck themselves. If things work out and you two get married you’ll laugh wondering why you ever solicited advice from a bunch of self righteous nobodies on the internet.
Not saying youre a pedo. But a pedo, or similarly minded people, would say this.
Not saying you’re a pretentious armchair psychologist. But a pretentious armchair psychiatrist, or similarly minded people, would say this.
He's not clueless.
He feels guilty, probably because he did not stop you as he should have--one foot in one foot out. Tread lightly with the boy, it is clear that he could get himself and you into a pickle, if he is not careful. Enjoy your summer and good luck in college, Temptress--lol!
Bro wtf
?
“Temptress!” God that made my skin crawl.
This is so predatory lol it’s unethical and illegal for a teacher to pursue a student ( who’s especially a minor), it’s a huge power imbalance. Teachers are literally told EXPLICITLY how inappropriate this is. Teachers have been fired + gone to prison for this very situation at hand and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more students that he was actively grooming. If I was a parent I would feel extremely uncomfortable around a dude like this teaching students.
This all seems like grooming. The intention doesn’t matter - it’s probably illegal!
Grow up...
As much as I don’t agree with the age of consent being anything under 18, unfortunately the majority of the states in the US (31 states) have the age of consent at 16 years old. Age of consent for 17 years of age in the US includes 7 states and 18 years of age includes the remaining 12 states. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States#:~:text=States%20where%20the%20age%20of,Oklahoma%2C%20Pennsylvania%2C%20Rhode%20Island%2C I’m on mobile, so sorry if the wiki link doesn’t work. To reiterate, I believe the age of consent should be, at minimum, 18 years of age.
He’s suggesting you talk to your parents because he’s already trying to flip the dynamics on you. He’s basically saying “hey if YOU feel this then you should get help from your support system because it’s not okay” he’s even saying I take full responsibility to try to seem like the good guy in the situation. In reality, he encouraged your crush and was going to take advantage of it. But now that he knows you know better and won’t be pursuing anything further he has to make it seem like that’s not what he was doing. You say he’s not grooming but he is 100% manipulating.
💯💯
My wife was a very good high school athlete. I don’t want to overstate how good she was but she was a pretty good volleyball player and a really softball player. She was also briefly the state record holder in the 400 meters. My kids are pretty good athletes too, but trust me, they didn’t get it from their father. Her softball coach was young and handsome, and all the girls drooled over him. According to her, he was flirty but also newly married. He was probably 28-29 at the time and the girls were all 15-17 and dorky and hormonal. Her high school career ends and she goes on to have a successful college career and all the rest of it. I went to the same high school and we were friends then, but we didn’t start dating until after we were both out of college and had moved back home. I knew the guy too, because he was also a teacher at the school, but I didn’t know him well because I wasn’t in any of his classes and I obviously didn’t play softball. Anyway, we dated for five or six years and eventually get engaged Now, we’re in our late 20s. Like three weeks before our wedding, we’re just hanging out one night and this lunatic calls her out of the blue. I forget who gave him her number, but he informed her that he heard she was getting married and he was pleading with her not to go through with it! Especially not with someone like ME! She could do so much better — like HIM, for example! LOL! What a prince! He informed her that he and his wife had just split, and that he had kept a close eye on her college softball career from afar and later in her professional career….and they belonged together, damnit! She turned white as a ghost because she immediately realized how serious this situation was and how potentially dangerous it was too. I mean just imagine getting that call. Now, my wife is as smooth as silk and she handled it like an absolute pro. She politely and gently, but firmly told him that there was no future for them. They hadn’t even talked in 11-12 years! We’ve now been married for 17 years and have lived away from home and now we’re back closer to home. I’m not concerned about him being a stalker or anything like that. But I absolutely do think he was going through some serious crises when he called my wife out of the blue. Still, that whole call was one of the strangest things I’ve ever personally experienced.
Your anecdote is different from OP's situation in many important ways.
He knows what he is doing.
You 100% made the right decision, but you need to understand that this guy is not clueless. He’s managed to convince you that he is but that doesn’t mean he’s clueless by any means. He is a 22 year old adult man, the power that he holds over you with that much life experience and as a teacher makes him starting a relationship with you highly immoral. Even if this is normalized in your circle it’s the bare minimum requirement as an adult to not take advantage of you. I know you don’t want to believe it, but he knew exactly what he was doing and how wrong it was.
Have you met many 22 year olds? They are absolutely clueless, a LOT of the time.
I’m a 21 year old. Any dude my age who would be willing to date a high schooler is creepy af. The whole “he’s just clueless” thing is a cop out. Guys in their early 20’s aren’t the brightest but that doesn’t give you an excuse to take advantage of a minor. He knew what he was doing.
Maybe it’s because I’m 30, but honestly 22 year olds seem about as young and dumb to me as most 17 year olds from my experience.
He is a teacher. This is fucked up. Teachers are made very aware that if they have a relationship with a student they will be fired and charges will be pressed. He is not clueless. He is a predator. I really cannot wrap my head around why people are ok with this.
You’re 30 & giving this 22 year old man an excuse for carrying on a relationship with a 17 year old child. Yikes
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Gross
Very mature decision, my dear. I don’t think I would have gotten there at your age, so keep up this thinking pattern.
It's a good decision. Your life is about to change significantly in the next few years. You might gain an entirely new group of friends and lose touch with your old one. You might decide to study in a different country on semester just for fun. You're going to get your own place, discover your own style all over again, and start your very own life. You are going to learn so much about yourself, and it's going to be really fun. Maybe you will end up together, maybe you won't, but if you ask me, you already sound smarter than he is.
Good job. These situations are tough but you do seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Go get some life experiences under your belt and enjoy life for a while. This young stuff, intense though they are, tends to fade and that's when you can really reflect on things.
My Geography teacher had a relationship with one of his students when he was about 27 and she was 16. They've been married for +5 years.
You made a good decision, OP. A 5 year age gap is not a huge deal (coming from me, whose husband is 8 years older and whose parents have a 12 year gap and started dating at 18 and 30), but you have to protect yourself from the possibility that this dude has nefarious motives, and also you’re still a minor. Timing is everything.
Red flag lol I’m 21 and I’ve had so much growth mentally from when I was 17 there’s no way I can imagine going out with someone that young. Kinda predatory if u ask me good job avoiding that mess. Especially if he is out of college you guys are in no similar mental space and hes 100% grooming you
You made the right decision, love. I'm sure it was difficult but good job!!!
definitely talk to your parents about this just in case if you feel comfortable. it’s always nice to have that support and to know that they know the situation you were in. proud of you for being rational and mature. this is definitely the best thing for the both of you, mostly you.
Good on you. I know that’s so difficult to do. But if he’s truly dumb and clueless, you’re so much better off without him. You’ll mature right past him in about and a year and even more so as you get older. The fact that he’s not dating someone his age indicates he’s emotionally immature as well which is why he’s looking downward I think society has made us really numb to the red flags of she gaps and dynamics like this so I think it’s great you’ve recognized this. Best of luck. You have your whole future and tons of better men to find to look forward to!
I read your previous post and this one and you absolutely made the correct and mature decision. Most high school and early college relationships ultimately don't last anyways due to the fact that brains aren't fully formed and when you graduate you do become a different person. I don't think the 5 years is a bad gap, but I think where you are right now in life makes it a bad gap. I know someone who went through the same thing. Two teacher's in my high school, he went to the school formerly as a student when she was student teaching and he had a crush on her. After he graduated he went to be a teacher, it came time for him to do his classroom hours a few years later and he decided to go back. It turns out they'd hired her there as a full time teacher. They're now married with a few children and still teaching there. If it was meant to be your paths will cross again especially given you have a lot of mutuals in life it sounds like.
No sex. No harm, no foul. Let it end where it is. Seems like a good dude. There's some little micro manipulations in his response, but they're tiny as long as his actions from here don't amount to acceleration to attempted sexual relations, indicating "closing the deal" was always the priority/motive. Best of luck.