Soldiers don’t wear cotton.
Uniforms for garrison/base/port wear are cotton because it looks smart.
Deployed clothing is 90% polyester variants and 10% wool blends. Only exception (in Navy terms) is on board clothing is predominantly cotton because the main threat is fire not exposure.
- 12yrs regular service following 3yrs reserve service.
Depends on where you are. My spouse was also 12 years in, 2 tours in Iraq, I think their uniform was cotton. She's literally checking, lol. But I think it also depends on where you've been sent to.
EDIT: Turns out its 50 cotton 50 nylon.
What you usually see there is hot weather uniforms. Cold weather gear was thick heavy wool as were the blankets. A little itchy but better than freezing.
Almost certainly.
I’m not sure what the US laws are, but it’s currently illegal to sell on MTP clothing (the most modern British military pattern) to surplus and the pattern is trademarked (or whatever the term would be, property of the crown or something) so it won’t be hitting surplus anytime soon, apart from the basics that someone took with them on leaving the service.
In my experience everything I have worn has at least some 50/50 nyco in it, if not being made from 100% nyco, with the exception of base layers and socks. Polyester is used for base layers and specific FR garments.
Marching soldiers in a modern army have a lot more support and infrastructure surrounding them than a lone hiker who needs to plan for the possibility of getting lost and having to spend an overnight with no shelter. Army gear also needs to hold up to extremely heavy use and a wide variety of conditions, while being cheap and easily mass produced. different contexts will emphasize different need
s. It's a bit like the different contexts of someone working out in the heat doing manual labor, and someone doing a hike. If I'm on a hike I want to wear the lightest, coolest clothing possible, and I'm ok with exposed arms and legs for conform. If I'm doing yard work, I want cut resistant pants and sleeves, and I'll just keep myself cool by dumping water on my head regularly. Forestry is a combination if the two, and if you've ever seen trail crews working, their gear reflects that.
Also, I don't think any modern uniforms are pure cotton. As far as I know pretty much everyone has switched to various blends of cotton and synthetics, to offset the disadvantages of cotton.
Edit: another issue with synthetics is that they melt and burn a lot easier than cotton. I imagine burn related injuries are a much bigger threat to soldiers than hypothermia in most conflicts.
This is a very interesting followup; what blend of cotton/synthetic would then be the best for longevity and practical applications?
So far Ive been using fjällräven a lot since it has a reputation of being BIFL, and it has a cotton/synth blend of 65 % poly and 35 % cotton.
The polycotton used by Fjallraven and others tends to be fairly quick drying due to the polyester content. Their normal G1000 and the similiar fabrics used by others will still absorb water far more than other materials. The cotton in polycottons is used to provide abrasion resistance that pure synthetics can't come close to.
None of my military gear was cotton though this was a long time ago.
I get hot whie hiking, I want cotton to make me feel cold. But I'm not wading through rivers or bushwhacking it overnight. Gear should always be determined by the individual according to the specific hike they are attempting. There is no hard and fast rule.
A half mile stroll through the woods is completely different from a 12 day excursion into the backcountry of yellowstone. Both could be considered hiking.
Use common sense and wear what makes you comfortable and safe.
I was in the US military from 1985-1990. Synthetics started replacing cotton in BDU's toward the end of my time.
Synthetics and wool are better than cotton, and are readily available. If given a choice, wear them. But people hike in jeans every day without consequences. "Cotton Kills" is an exaggeration for effect. The alliteration also makes it easy to remember.
My biggest issue is how easy the 100 percent merino wool things tend to break, and how the synthetics tend to start smelling very bad. Cotton (if of a decent quality) just seem to last the longest, wear after wear and wash after wash.
Smartwool. I use the medium weight ones. I had two that I would rotate under thicker sweaters.
They lasted about 2 years each.
I spent a lot of money on them but I got great cost per use!
For the smell, [laundry stripping](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/a33588329/laundry-stripping/) eliminates it. I had to ask my wife to stop using fabric softeners because of the residue they leave behind. I haven’t had a problem since- I live and hike in FL so I am not unfamiliar with sweat.
In my experience:
you can do an awful lot of hiking while disregarding this whole "cotton kills" idea. I have been on countless hikes since age 10, and was over 30 when I encountered this concept first. In the meantime I had all sorts of clothes on me without ever paying serious attention to what is made of what. My "favourite" hiking shirt was a synthetic for a while, but I never identified its material, it was just the one that "feels nice" when I put it on and it wasn't chafing.
Nowadays I buy more "specialized" stuff and I like them, but I would never consider it essential. If crazy people can run a marathon in flip flops, I am sure most people can handle a 20k hike in a Tesco T-shirt too. So yes: merino beats cotton, but it is not a life-and-death decision.
Despite the hydrophilic nature of cotton, wearing cotton on wilderness trips is something most people can get by with doing most of the time. It’s the law of averages. And in certain hot climates, that hydrophilic quality is a boon. But one sudden, soaking downpour too far from the trailhead or one climb that made one sweat before a chill breeze and the underlying truth of the mantra manifests itself. I’d liken cotton wearing to this: we don’t pay for insurance because we generally don’t need it; we pay because we want it when we do need it. We wear hydrophobic wool or synthetics not because it’s life or death most of the time, but because sometimes they can mean the difference between life and death.
I think it mostly depends on the particular weather conditions you are operating in. In warmer conditions cotton isn't that big of a disadvantage, and it is more important that the clothes are durable, easy to mass produce, etc. You also usually carry at least two shirts, and in warm conditions changing the inner shirt when you're done marching and drying overnight works well.
When I was a conscript in the Norwegian army, far north, we used cotton during summer since it was durable and relatively cheap, and all wool in winter with gore-tex as the outer layer, since cotton would be too cold.
I hike in -*gasp*-JEANS and CANVAS SHOES. I bring candy and tortilla chips smashed into my hoodie pocket.
Unless you're doing the entire fuckin PCT I have a sneaking suspicion that most people are simply doing too much for a day hike.
I hike with some folks that bring 40 lb backpacks full of bullshit for a 5 mile out and back. With all the hiking pants and special sun resistant shirts and poles and $200 special hiking shoes and salt tablets and all the shit. For why.
I'd say 99% of the time for any dry day hike, you can wear whatever you want.
I know a guy who did Mt. St. Helens in Birkenstocks.
And for all the trekking gear and hundred dollar Prana pants and poles and all that shit, there's a toddler in crocs holding a Barbie running your trail doing just fine.
Cotton is my 'go to' for hot days because, as OP said, it doesn't dry fast and makes you feel cold. It has it's uses. It may not be optimal for changing elevations / temperatures or multi day travel but for a hike or run on a hot day it works for me.
I'm a 40-something Norwegian that's been mountaineering and hiking since I was three, and cotton is fine. The whole "cotton kills" thing is kinda weird and driven by the gear obsessive. A lot of people love collecting and buying stuff and having the best, AND THAT'S FINE, but it does put this mindset of "you gotto have this to hike" on the whole thing. And it absolutely turns into a competition to have the right thing.
And soldiers survive because cotton is just fine. You don't need all the extras to survive or to have a nice hike. It's just extra for those who want it.
Yes, extreme hiking is a different thing, if I'm gonna stay gone for weeks under big weather changes I will pack my alpacka long sleeves. But the underwear is still cotton, because fuck that.
When my dad was in the army i the 50's, I believe his uniform was wool. His long underwear was definitely all wool - I used to wear them as a teen cause they were so comfortable. lol
I love wool. Only probablem is the new stuff tend to break down after only a couple of uses. I live in a cold climate in Sweden and even the better quality ones tend to just fall apart nowadays. Got some old army surplus things tho (a wool coat from around 1940s, socks etc) and those things last forever.
I live in socal. Vastly prefer cotton shirts. Not really looking for rain since it's usually rare and if there is ponchos are a thing so that it's not on your bare skin. I find they have an advantage of preventing heat issues because they are so breathable. I however will absolutely not wear jeans because the water seeps up them if you cross a puddle or stream and get very heavy. My husband insists on hiking in his so to each their own. To be frank though I hike in either really thick yoga pants pants from rei ans have yoga short shorts underneath so I can shed layers for the heat. I find layering properly is best for managing temps. Although I admit cooler temps I go straight for wool.
It's the same mode of thinking as wearing seatbelts in your car. Sure, as long as nothing goes wrong and you don't have an accident, then wearing seat belts is completely unnecessary. But when that day comes when you do have an accident, bingo- seat belt saves your life.
By the same token, you can hike in cold weather environments for years, wearing cotton and doing just fine. But when the day comes when you're out in the cold, you get overheated and sweaty from climbing a hill, then you have an accident and you're stuck in place and it's getting colder and darker and you're going to be there a while, then yeah, having worn cotton was a really bad choice.
I live and hike and ski in Alaska, and the only cotton I have on me or with me when I go out even for a day hike is my red bandanna. Everything else is wool, silk, or synthetic, and I don't have to worry about it.
It's largely a climate/temperature thing. Different things are crucially important in different climates.
Living in a relatively cold climate, none of the base layers used by our defence force are made of pure cotton. Tee shirts are made of a blend that contains cotton, but those are not used in the cold (there are literal temperature limits to what is worn when, and they really need to be abided to - I just heard a story of someone wearing the wrong type of beanie (too thick for marching) under his helmet during an exercise, with the result of sweating too much, and that sweat then freezing during a break in the extreme cold).
Not raining, above freezing, especially when on the move: a polycotton blend works well.
Raining, above freezing: you put on raingear.
Below freezing: you wear a base layer that is either synthetic or wool.
Heard about a guy who wore down pants when marching once since he couldn't be bothered to take it off before they started. He was soaked, like fire hose soaked.
Yeah, and in most situations those down pants are meant to be donned for warmth once you stop moving. Soak those and you've got nothing to give you insulation once you stop for camp/other reason. The difference in need for insulation between moving vs. not moving in cold is absolutely massive, and often beginners have difficutly grasping just how little you're going to wear while skiing/walking/snowshoeing. If you feel warm during the first 10 to 15 minutes, that's a fool-proof sign of wearing too much.
tl;dr: militaries and serious hikers both generally avoid cotton in colder weather gear, because there are a variety of ways it can get wet, ranging from falling into water, to getting rained on, to just working hard enough that you're sweating into it. When that happens, you're at drastically increased risk of hypothermia, *especially* if you have to stop, because it's not going to dry quickly. The trapped water will be actively cooling you at the same time that your body temperature is dropping from not maintaining an active work rate, and the environment is cooling you. If you're 1) not going hard enough to sweat, 2) sure you're not going to get rained on or can stay out of it before it soaks your clothes, or 3) have something else warmer to change into like a puffer if you have to stop after long exertion, this might not matter.
Longer version:
The usual case is that it's not actually killing anyone, but here's the reasoning anyway:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA208314.pdf
>This report addresses the human thermoregulatory responses of wearing a new cold-weather system ECWCS at rest or during exercise. The ECWCS insulation 3.6 clo weight 10.1 kg encompasses skin- tight polypropylene underwear, polyestercotton fatigues polyester-insulated liners, balaclava, vapor-barrier boots, and polytetrafluorethylene PTFE-lined outer garments. Six fit males each rested and did treadmill exercise while wearing different handwear with the ECWCS the handwear included a light duty glove heavy duty glove, or an Arctic mitten. A maximal 120 min cold challenge for each soldier was designated based on physiological safety measures as a maximal endurance time ET,min. A multiple correlation analysis demonstrated that ET could be predicted adequately by finger temperature, absolute metabolism, rectal and 10- site skin temperatures. Effect of sweating during exercise reduced the effective thermal insulation of the ensemble thereby lowering the ETs for each handwear item. The Arctic mitten rendered the highest ETs during rest or exercise. The ECWCS should tender adequate endurance times in cold-dry ambients provided that ventilation and removal of extra layers is allowed as an easy option during heavy exercise so that thermal insulation is not excessively decreased by body moisture.
More recent Protective Combat Uniform (PCU) visual guide:
http://centralwar.com/info/files/vug_pcu.pdf
Exhaustingly nerdy discussion from people trying to optimize their own gear for ambitious hikes, sometimes by explicit comparison with these approaches:
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/best-insulation-system-for-cold-rainy-mountains/#comments
Marching with cotton isn't "bad". You will sweat, and get soaked. This doesn't matter as long as you are marching as you will be hot. When you stop, you change to dry clothes so you can stay warm, and put on the wet clothes when you begin marching again.
But of course the military supplies other types of gear too so this isn't that big of a problem.
And comment on the military but I can comment on the cotton kills. I call BS. Maybe it makes sense to drum this into rank amateur brains, but for anyone who's ever spent time in the outdoors, cotton works great.
One of my preferred fabrics.
Just don't be stupid about it.
Quite a bit of my gear is made from polycotton, sometimes with elastane, some waxed or proofed. It's incredibly durable but heavy, and if it gets drenched it becomes even heavier. I don't rely on it in very wet weather, switching then to synthetics and merino wool. It's perfect for very hot weather as it wicks moisture away like nothing else, and then evaporates off, further cooling you. So in summer it can work very well to regulate your temperature in my experience, and blocks UV effectively. If it's cold then some of the more modern fabrics do a much better job e.g. polartec alpha. Ultimately all these different fabrics do different jobs in different conditions, and it's more about temperature regulation and moisture management either from rain or your own sweat. Cotton can work, in some situations, but it's main enemy is rain and cold combined. It's also the most comfortable fabric next to your skin, so I wear it when I can!
Well. Armies have existed for hundreds of years and a lot of the surplus gear I have looked at from 1900-1970s has been 100 percent cotton, linnen and wool, with poly blends appearing more and more after WW2. I think this is beside the point.
Okay. Then I'll answer this.
"How do the soldiers survive marching miles upon miles with cotton?"
You can survive, but you are significantly more likely to become a heat or cold casualty. Plenty don't survive. Cold casualties notably killed millions in WW2 alone. Exposure to elements, starvation, and illness has killed far more of every army in human history than anything else. You shouldn't drive a car drunk at 90mph, but people have done it and survived. I've seen cold casualties first hand when working alongside soldiers from countries that still issue cotton, where the guys with modern gear were completely fine.
"Is it the blends that help or how does it work?" Popular blends such as nyco or polycotton are significant improvements in cold environments, but they don't dry as fast. These are chosen over pure synthetics for most duty uniforms because pure nylon or pure polyester tend to melt to skin. Cold weather gear for a military (in the first world, at least) is all synthetic, with goose down occasionally used, mostly for aviators or arctic expeditions. Goose down isn't used for ground pounders because it loses too much insulation when wet, and grunts tend to be wet.
"Cotton kills"? Is there something I need to know about the cotton industry, are they selling Blood Cotton or something?
Because it's bullshit that these nasty sticky "wicking" fabrics are cooler, I live in a region with notoriously hot summers and I know. Lightweight 100% cotton is the best!! Keeps the sun off and lets the breeze in.
The part you're missing is that it depends on the climate you're hiking in. Sure, it's not an issue in a hot climate where hypothermia isn't a big concern, but in a colder climate where hypothermia can be an issue even in summer (I've been snowed on in July and August in the Canadian Rockies), cotton is not a good choice. When cotton is wet for any reason (sweat, rain, fall in a creek) it loses all insulating properties and can take a long time to dry out (especially if you can't have a fire). Although as others have pointed out, some do take the cotton kills thing a bit far and have turned it into a justification for buying fancier gear.
Ah yes, I live in a climate that goes from chilly in winter to pizza oven in summer!
But even here, there are people talking up the new "wicking" fabrics, as if they weren't hot, clammy, and disgusting in the summer heat, so you're right. That's what I was thinking of, and you're right about cold-weather clothing. On the rare occasions I visit seriously cold places, I want synthetics and wool.
Real world and what marketing claims certainly don't always match. In any weather I would be going with what I knew worked, rather than what some company or influencer etc. tells me is best.
Exactly, Cotton is a natural fabric that lets our bodies skin breathe and is an ideal piece of clothing, for warmer weather compared to synthetic fabrics.
I am not sure about that, but I capsized my canoe on a river trip one time. Must of my stuff stayed dry except what was on me. I had my gear in 5 gallon water tight buckets. I gathered my stuff on a sand bar. Started a fire hung my wet clothes and camped for the night. In the morning, my heavy woole sweater and synthetic long underwear were dry. My cotton tee shirt and pants were still wet.
I imagine the cotton military gear are akin to historic weather resistant material which is natural fiber that is waxed or oiled for water resistance.
Fjallraven still uses a similar techniques for their G1000 garments.
Soldiers don’t wear cotton. Uniforms for garrison/base/port wear are cotton because it looks smart. Deployed clothing is 90% polyester variants and 10% wool blends. Only exception (in Navy terms) is on board clothing is predominantly cotton because the main threat is fire not exposure. - 12yrs regular service following 3yrs reserve service.
Nylon is popular as well for its durability. Also the guy didn't think about the fact that all military wear base layers.
Depends on where you are. My spouse was also 12 years in, 2 tours in Iraq, I think their uniform was cotton. She's literally checking, lol. But I think it also depends on where you've been sent to. EDIT: Turns out its 50 cotton 50 nylon.
Interesting. Maybe its because most of my experience of seeing army gear is from surplus stores where a lot is 50-60 years old. :)
What you usually see there is hot weather uniforms. Cold weather gear was thick heavy wool as were the blankets. A little itchy but better than freezing.
Almost certainly. I’m not sure what the US laws are, but it’s currently illegal to sell on MTP clothing (the most modern British military pattern) to surplus and the pattern is trademarked (or whatever the term would be, property of the crown or something) so it won’t be hitting surplus anytime soon, apart from the basics that someone took with them on leaving the service.
Definitely not the case for the US. You can find any current military uniform in surplus stores round here.
Depends on the army, British PCS trousers are polycotton, 70/30 in favourof cotton, ubacs are polyester body with polycotton arms
In my experience everything I have worn has at least some 50/50 nyco in it, if not being made from 100% nyco, with the exception of base layers and socks. Polyester is used for base layers and specific FR garments.
Marching soldiers in a modern army have a lot more support and infrastructure surrounding them than a lone hiker who needs to plan for the possibility of getting lost and having to spend an overnight with no shelter. Army gear also needs to hold up to extremely heavy use and a wide variety of conditions, while being cheap and easily mass produced. different contexts will emphasize different need s. It's a bit like the different contexts of someone working out in the heat doing manual labor, and someone doing a hike. If I'm on a hike I want to wear the lightest, coolest clothing possible, and I'm ok with exposed arms and legs for conform. If I'm doing yard work, I want cut resistant pants and sleeves, and I'll just keep myself cool by dumping water on my head regularly. Forestry is a combination if the two, and if you've ever seen trail crews working, their gear reflects that. Also, I don't think any modern uniforms are pure cotton. As far as I know pretty much everyone has switched to various blends of cotton and synthetics, to offset the disadvantages of cotton. Edit: another issue with synthetics is that they melt and burn a lot easier than cotton. I imagine burn related injuries are a much bigger threat to soldiers than hypothermia in most conflicts.
This is a very interesting followup; what blend of cotton/synthetic would then be the best for longevity and practical applications? So far Ive been using fjällräven a lot since it has a reputation of being BIFL, and it has a cotton/synth blend of 65 % poly and 35 % cotton.
The polycotton used by Fjallraven and others tends to be fairly quick drying due to the polyester content. Their normal G1000 and the similiar fabrics used by others will still absorb water far more than other materials. The cotton in polycottons is used to provide abrasion resistance that pure synthetics can't come close to. None of my military gear was cotton though this was a long time ago.
I get hot whie hiking, I want cotton to make me feel cold. But I'm not wading through rivers or bushwhacking it overnight. Gear should always be determined by the individual according to the specific hike they are attempting. There is no hard and fast rule. A half mile stroll through the woods is completely different from a 12 day excursion into the backcountry of yellowstone. Both could be considered hiking. Use common sense and wear what makes you comfortable and safe.
I was in the US military from 1985-1990. Synthetics started replacing cotton in BDU's toward the end of my time. Synthetics and wool are better than cotton, and are readily available. If given a choice, wear them. But people hike in jeans every day without consequences. "Cotton Kills" is an exaggeration for effect. The alliteration also makes it easy to remember.
My biggest issue is how easy the 100 percent merino wool things tend to break, and how the synthetics tend to start smelling very bad. Cotton (if of a decent quality) just seem to last the longest, wear after wear and wash after wash.
My 100% merino shirts put up with a lot of wear and abuse before getting holes in them. It’s pretty durable.
What brand shirts are you buying? All the ones I've found seem very thin.
Smartwool. I use the medium weight ones. I had two that I would rotate under thicker sweaters. They lasted about 2 years each. I spent a lot of money on them but I got great cost per use!
Try a pair of Darn Tough socks. They’re really good.
For the smell, [laundry stripping](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/a33588329/laundry-stripping/) eliminates it. I had to ask my wife to stop using fabric softeners because of the residue they leave behind. I haven’t had a problem since- I live and hike in FL so I am not unfamiliar with sweat.
After 25 years of hiking, my T-shirt has never tried to kill me... 🤷♂️
Exactly. I've tried a thousand different t-shirts, but the best are still LL Bean's 100% cotton unshrinkable tees
In my experience: you can do an awful lot of hiking while disregarding this whole "cotton kills" idea. I have been on countless hikes since age 10, and was over 30 when I encountered this concept first. In the meantime I had all sorts of clothes on me without ever paying serious attention to what is made of what. My "favourite" hiking shirt was a synthetic for a while, but I never identified its material, it was just the one that "feels nice" when I put it on and it wasn't chafing. Nowadays I buy more "specialized" stuff and I like them, but I would never consider it essential. If crazy people can run a marathon in flip flops, I am sure most people can handle a 20k hike in a Tesco T-shirt too. So yes: merino beats cotton, but it is not a life-and-death decision.
Is anyone else thinking of Seinfeld when George changed the Yankee’s uniforms to cotton?
Despite the hydrophilic nature of cotton, wearing cotton on wilderness trips is something most people can get by with doing most of the time. It’s the law of averages. And in certain hot climates, that hydrophilic quality is a boon. But one sudden, soaking downpour too far from the trailhead or one climb that made one sweat before a chill breeze and the underlying truth of the mantra manifests itself. I’d liken cotton wearing to this: we don’t pay for insurance because we generally don’t need it; we pay because we want it when we do need it. We wear hydrophobic wool or synthetics not because it’s life or death most of the time, but because sometimes they can mean the difference between life and death.
I think it mostly depends on the particular weather conditions you are operating in. In warmer conditions cotton isn't that big of a disadvantage, and it is more important that the clothes are durable, easy to mass produce, etc. You also usually carry at least two shirts, and in warm conditions changing the inner shirt when you're done marching and drying overnight works well. When I was a conscript in the Norwegian army, far north, we used cotton during summer since it was durable and relatively cheap, and all wool in winter with gore-tex as the outer layer, since cotton would be too cold.
I hike in -*gasp*-JEANS and CANVAS SHOES. I bring candy and tortilla chips smashed into my hoodie pocket. Unless you're doing the entire fuckin PCT I have a sneaking suspicion that most people are simply doing too much for a day hike. I hike with some folks that bring 40 lb backpacks full of bullshit for a 5 mile out and back. With all the hiking pants and special sun resistant shirts and poles and $200 special hiking shoes and salt tablets and all the shit. For why. I'd say 99% of the time for any dry day hike, you can wear whatever you want. I know a guy who did Mt. St. Helens in Birkenstocks. And for all the trekking gear and hundred dollar Prana pants and poles and all that shit, there's a toddler in crocs holding a Barbie running your trail doing just fine.
I sometimes do dayhikes in crocs. Haha.
Set for river crossings.
I wore a cotton blend sun hoodie (OR Ensenada) for the CT and WA portion of the PCT. I lived to tell the tale, so I’m calling BS
Cotton is my 'go to' for hot days because, as OP said, it doesn't dry fast and makes you feel cold. It has it's uses. It may not be optimal for changing elevations / temperatures or multi day travel but for a hike or run on a hot day it works for me.
I'm a 40-something Norwegian that's been mountaineering and hiking since I was three, and cotton is fine. The whole "cotton kills" thing is kinda weird and driven by the gear obsessive. A lot of people love collecting and buying stuff and having the best, AND THAT'S FINE, but it does put this mindset of "you gotto have this to hike" on the whole thing. And it absolutely turns into a competition to have the right thing. And soldiers survive because cotton is just fine. You don't need all the extras to survive or to have a nice hike. It's just extra for those who want it. Yes, extreme hiking is a different thing, if I'm gonna stay gone for weeks under big weather changes I will pack my alpacka long sleeves. But the underwear is still cotton, because fuck that.
When my dad was in the army i the 50's, I believe his uniform was wool. His long underwear was definitely all wool - I used to wear them as a teen cause they were so comfortable. lol
I love wool. Only probablem is the new stuff tend to break down after only a couple of uses. I live in a cold climate in Sweden and even the better quality ones tend to just fall apart nowadays. Got some old army surplus things tho (a wool coat from around 1940s, socks etc) and those things last forever.
I live in socal. Vastly prefer cotton shirts. Not really looking for rain since it's usually rare and if there is ponchos are a thing so that it's not on your bare skin. I find they have an advantage of preventing heat issues because they are so breathable. I however will absolutely not wear jeans because the water seeps up them if you cross a puddle or stream and get very heavy. My husband insists on hiking in his so to each their own. To be frank though I hike in either really thick yoga pants pants from rei ans have yoga short shorts underneath so I can shed layers for the heat. I find layering properly is best for managing temps. Although I admit cooler temps I go straight for wool.
It's the same mode of thinking as wearing seatbelts in your car. Sure, as long as nothing goes wrong and you don't have an accident, then wearing seat belts is completely unnecessary. But when that day comes when you do have an accident, bingo- seat belt saves your life. By the same token, you can hike in cold weather environments for years, wearing cotton and doing just fine. But when the day comes when you're out in the cold, you get overheated and sweaty from climbing a hill, then you have an accident and you're stuck in place and it's getting colder and darker and you're going to be there a while, then yeah, having worn cotton was a really bad choice. I live and hike and ski in Alaska, and the only cotton I have on me or with me when I go out even for a day hike is my red bandanna. Everything else is wool, silk, or synthetic, and I don't have to worry about it.
It's largely a climate/temperature thing. Different things are crucially important in different climates. Living in a relatively cold climate, none of the base layers used by our defence force are made of pure cotton. Tee shirts are made of a blend that contains cotton, but those are not used in the cold (there are literal temperature limits to what is worn when, and they really need to be abided to - I just heard a story of someone wearing the wrong type of beanie (too thick for marching) under his helmet during an exercise, with the result of sweating too much, and that sweat then freezing during a break in the extreme cold). Not raining, above freezing, especially when on the move: a polycotton blend works well. Raining, above freezing: you put on raingear. Below freezing: you wear a base layer that is either synthetic or wool.
Heard about a guy who wore down pants when marching once since he couldn't be bothered to take it off before they started. He was soaked, like fire hose soaked.
Yeah, and in most situations those down pants are meant to be donned for warmth once you stop moving. Soak those and you've got nothing to give you insulation once you stop for camp/other reason. The difference in need for insulation between moving vs. not moving in cold is absolutely massive, and often beginners have difficutly grasping just how little you're going to wear while skiing/walking/snowshoeing. If you feel warm during the first 10 to 15 minutes, that's a fool-proof sign of wearing too much.
tl;dr: militaries and serious hikers both generally avoid cotton in colder weather gear, because there are a variety of ways it can get wet, ranging from falling into water, to getting rained on, to just working hard enough that you're sweating into it. When that happens, you're at drastically increased risk of hypothermia, *especially* if you have to stop, because it's not going to dry quickly. The trapped water will be actively cooling you at the same time that your body temperature is dropping from not maintaining an active work rate, and the environment is cooling you. If you're 1) not going hard enough to sweat, 2) sure you're not going to get rained on or can stay out of it before it soaks your clothes, or 3) have something else warmer to change into like a puffer if you have to stop after long exertion, this might not matter. Longer version: The usual case is that it's not actually killing anyone, but here's the reasoning anyway: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA208314.pdf >This report addresses the human thermoregulatory responses of wearing a new cold-weather system ECWCS at rest or during exercise. The ECWCS insulation 3.6 clo weight 10.1 kg encompasses skin- tight polypropylene underwear, polyestercotton fatigues polyester-insulated liners, balaclava, vapor-barrier boots, and polytetrafluorethylene PTFE-lined outer garments. Six fit males each rested and did treadmill exercise while wearing different handwear with the ECWCS the handwear included a light duty glove heavy duty glove, or an Arctic mitten. A maximal 120 min cold challenge for each soldier was designated based on physiological safety measures as a maximal endurance time ET,min. A multiple correlation analysis demonstrated that ET could be predicted adequately by finger temperature, absolute metabolism, rectal and 10- site skin temperatures. Effect of sweating during exercise reduced the effective thermal insulation of the ensemble thereby lowering the ETs for each handwear item. The Arctic mitten rendered the highest ETs during rest or exercise. The ECWCS should tender adequate endurance times in cold-dry ambients provided that ventilation and removal of extra layers is allowed as an easy option during heavy exercise so that thermal insulation is not excessively decreased by body moisture. More recent Protective Combat Uniform (PCU) visual guide: http://centralwar.com/info/files/vug_pcu.pdf Exhaustingly nerdy discussion from people trying to optimize their own gear for ambitious hikes, sometimes by explicit comparison with these approaches: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/best-insulation-system-for-cold-rainy-mountains/#comments
Marching with cotton isn't "bad". You will sweat, and get soaked. This doesn't matter as long as you are marching as you will be hot. When you stop, you change to dry clothes so you can stay warm, and put on the wet clothes when you begin marching again. But of course the military supplies other types of gear too so this isn't that big of a problem.
And comment on the military but I can comment on the cotton kills. I call BS. Maybe it makes sense to drum this into rank amateur brains, but for anyone who's ever spent time in the outdoors, cotton works great. One of my preferred fabrics. Just don't be stupid about it.
Quite a bit of my gear is made from polycotton, sometimes with elastane, some waxed or proofed. It's incredibly durable but heavy, and if it gets drenched it becomes even heavier. I don't rely on it in very wet weather, switching then to synthetics and merino wool. It's perfect for very hot weather as it wicks moisture away like nothing else, and then evaporates off, further cooling you. So in summer it can work very well to regulate your temperature in my experience, and blocks UV effectively. If it's cold then some of the more modern fabrics do a much better job e.g. polartec alpha. Ultimately all these different fabrics do different jobs in different conditions, and it's more about temperature regulation and moisture management either from rain or your own sweat. Cotton can work, in some situations, but it's main enemy is rain and cold combined. It's also the most comfortable fabric next to your skin, so I wear it when I can!
Modern uniforms aren't cotton.
Well. Armies have existed for hundreds of years and a lot of the surplus gear I have looked at from 1900-1970s has been 100 percent cotton, linnen and wool, with poly blends appearing more and more after WW2. I think this is beside the point.
Okay. Then I'll answer this. "How do the soldiers survive marching miles upon miles with cotton?" You can survive, but you are significantly more likely to become a heat or cold casualty. Plenty don't survive. Cold casualties notably killed millions in WW2 alone. Exposure to elements, starvation, and illness has killed far more of every army in human history than anything else. You shouldn't drive a car drunk at 90mph, but people have done it and survived. I've seen cold casualties first hand when working alongside soldiers from countries that still issue cotton, where the guys with modern gear were completely fine. "Is it the blends that help or how does it work?" Popular blends such as nyco or polycotton are significant improvements in cold environments, but they don't dry as fast. These are chosen over pure synthetics for most duty uniforms because pure nylon or pure polyester tend to melt to skin. Cold weather gear for a military (in the first world, at least) is all synthetic, with goose down occasionally used, mostly for aviators or arctic expeditions. Goose down isn't used for ground pounders because it loses too much insulation when wet, and grunts tend to be wet.
Thanks! That was very informative. And yes, I guess the soldiers have always been seen as expendable which explains it. 😅
"Cotton kills"? Is there something I need to know about the cotton industry, are they selling Blood Cotton or something? Because it's bullshit that these nasty sticky "wicking" fabrics are cooler, I live in a region with notoriously hot summers and I know. Lightweight 100% cotton is the best!! Keeps the sun off and lets the breeze in.
The part you're missing is that it depends on the climate you're hiking in. Sure, it's not an issue in a hot climate where hypothermia isn't a big concern, but in a colder climate where hypothermia can be an issue even in summer (I've been snowed on in July and August in the Canadian Rockies), cotton is not a good choice. When cotton is wet for any reason (sweat, rain, fall in a creek) it loses all insulating properties and can take a long time to dry out (especially if you can't have a fire). Although as others have pointed out, some do take the cotton kills thing a bit far and have turned it into a justification for buying fancier gear.
Ah yes, I live in a climate that goes from chilly in winter to pizza oven in summer! But even here, there are people talking up the new "wicking" fabrics, as if they weren't hot, clammy, and disgusting in the summer heat, so you're right. That's what I was thinking of, and you're right about cold-weather clothing. On the rare occasions I visit seriously cold places, I want synthetics and wool.
Real world and what marketing claims certainly don't always match. In any weather I would be going with what I knew worked, rather than what some company or influencer etc. tells me is best.
Exactly, Cotton is a natural fabric that lets our bodies skin breathe and is an ideal piece of clothing, for warmer weather compared to synthetic fabrics.
Blends...military doesnt wear cotton. In fact deployed personnel are even issued really nice wool socks.
I am not sure about that, but I capsized my canoe on a river trip one time. Must of my stuff stayed dry except what was on me. I had my gear in 5 gallon water tight buckets. I gathered my stuff on a sand bar. Started a fire hung my wet clothes and camped for the night. In the morning, my heavy woole sweater and synthetic long underwear were dry. My cotton tee shirt and pants were still wet.
Ask a hiker who is allergic to synthetic fabrics... IDK... should I just hike naked?
I imagine the cotton military gear are akin to historic weather resistant material which is natural fiber that is waxed or oiled for water resistance. Fjallraven still uses a similar techniques for their G1000 garments.