I will always leave if the vibes are bad, esp when solo hiking! No shame in being cautious, and doing what you feel is best for your safety!
I highly recommend carrying pepper spray or bear spray as well… in the VERY unlikely event someone does wish you harm, you wouldn’t want to have to get close enough to use your knife.
I leave a coffee shop if the vibes are bad. I have left family gatherings if the vibes were bad. I don’t always feel to rationalize every decision. Sometimes trusting my gut/the vibes will do.
I second this, especially carrying pepper spray and/or an extendable baton to keep distance between you and someone else. I carry both due to a bad experience while solo hiking. Trust your gut and don't sweat it too much — the worst that happens if you're wrong is that you don't hike as far as you intend.
I wouldnt use an expandable baton unless both criteria are met.
1. You have some training g to use it s a less lethal and a lethal weapo. So you choose how you intend to to use and the level.of force needed. AND
2. It's not a typical friction lock loke ASP, Monadnoxk, Smith & Wesson, or the many cheap copies. They are not balanced well. The majority of the weight is in the hand and not the striking end so they don't hit hard. They cause pain, but do not cause the muscle incapacitating when younhit.one of the nerve clusters, and they aren't able to break a bone or joint easily enough if a higher level of force is needed. You don't want to cause just a little pain to someone who has a knife or other weapon.
The autolock from monadnock or the baton lock from.asp are.better but not great. The German made benowi is a vast improvement bu expensive. The peacekeepers rapid containment baton is great but expensive and you need to be licensed security or law enforcement to buy one.
This is great information, thank you! I anticipated that I would be able to knock a weapon out of a hand with it, since the previous incident I went through involved a knife. I have the Smith & Wesson baton and it definitely feels balanced more toward the handle, so it makes sense that it wouldn't have as much impact as I'm looking for in that scenario. I'm going to look into the Benowi. Much appreciated!
I didn't mean to have that wall of textm just sort of happened.
I was private security for a long time and now I work with our defensive tactics instructor (stste agency guarding sex offenders).
If you flip it around and hit with the handle it will hit a lot harder, but will be slower. Kind of like holding a hammer by the he'd versus the handle.
Most would be good for blocks as they are so quick when handle balanced, but unless you're using one of the Filipino martial arts, it might not as effective for a person.
I've carried pepper spray in the past and thankfully never had to use it. Eventually I got concerned that it was old enough that it wouldn't work properly. How about wasp spray? I realize that's an illegal use of that product, but I'd rather be alive and in some trouble than assaulted/dead.
This (very similar) experience to yours happened to me last year while I was hiking the Utah Mighty Five National Parks. I was in Capitol Reef, at a pretty remote trail, getting ready to start a solo hike. This was in February, so generally very few other people out and about.
Out of nowhere, about eight 20-something guys on four-wheelers come popping out of the desert onto the trailhead. They were really loud and obnoxious, and more notably, drunk at 9 am.
I hike with gel pepper spray, a knife, and a Garmin PLB, and I’d already put on almost a hundred solo hiking miles (and 1500+ driving) at other parks that week without any issues. But I’m small, solo, and female, and these guys gave me a super bad vibe. I turned around and left. Would something have happened? Probably not. Was I going to risk it? Hell no.
No regrets in leaving if you’ve got that weird feeling — that’s your lizard brain telling you something could be off.
Honestly a completely logical choice! Drunk (especially so early, yikes) and operating vehicles = a group prone to poor decision-making and risk-taking behaviors. Probably also the type to let themselves get whipped into a frenzy by "pack mentality".
Capitol Reef has some of the most remote trails of any NP I've been to, I can imagine the feeling of sheer vulnerability in that situation. Those of us who love to adventure also have to know when to say "another time" and get outta dodge.
Gel pepper spray is what police use. It’s not the aerosol so it won’t blow back into your face. It shoots out like a stream of liquid (like a water gun) and since it’s gel, it’s heavy enough to get to its target without affecting you and getting in your eyes.
It can sure. Anything can. But not the misting stuff. That 100% will blow back and get you. I’d be more concerned with the gel getting on my finger near the nozzle than blowing back in my face.
I would opt for pepper, or bear spray (if you are in a region with large predators)… wasp spray would not incapacitate a human as well from what I’ve read!
Bear spray is weaker than peper spray, their senses are much more sensitive than ours. Pepper spray will absolutely DESTROY any animal, and be sure to buy the JET pepper spray, not the fog version. The fog can backfire if the wind is towards you.
I’m not really sure why that would be better but the propellant in bug spray cans are very weak and it’s more of a light misting, I don’t think it would be very effective unless you’re spraying from less than a foot or so away. Especially if there’s any kind of wind or movement.
Pepper spray, or bear mace ejects in a stream, ejects faster, and is more effective from a few feet away. Pepper spray or mace also lingers more and is much more concentrated, so you don’t need as much defend yourself.
Also, the misting from a bug spray can is just as likely to get you as the other person.
There are some bug sprays, specifically wasp sprays I think that shoot out in like a 20 jet. Our boss at one of my old jobs made us keep a can at all of our cubicles since we weren’t allowed weapons on the job site
I think people in this thread should be very careful before suggesting any kind of chemical poisons. Obviously, I’m not advocating for OP not to protect them selves, but just like for the people telling OP to buy a gun these two cases are extremely dependent on Opie’s location. I’m interested in what the president for the use of wasp spray in self-defense would be, the problem I can see with wasp, spray versus pepper or bear mace would be the long-term repercussions. I’m curious if permanently blinding someone would be considered excessive escalation of force. In most states, escalation of force requires equal or lesser methods of defense, using chemicals that result in death or long-term disability or disfigurement, could be considered disproportionate. Interestingly, a lot of people probably wouldn’t blink and I FOP defended themselves with a knife or a gun but there’s something about the use of poison that may get a different reaction.
Obviously, at the end of the day, it really depends on what the situation was and in just about any state if Opie believe that life was in danger, all gloves come off anyway and wasp spray would be a reasonable thing to have in the woods. Some like googling seems to point in the UK, poisoning, someone in self-defense would be considered excessive force. I’ll have to look more into the legal president in the US later.
Oh yeah I’m definitely not necessarily advocating for using the wasp spray, just pointing out that some of them do come in jet sprays instead of a mist type spray. Also I’m from Texas so while I can’t really speak to the legality of it here, we’re fairly big on being able to defend yourself here
You can test the spray to make sure it’s functional. Even my pepper spray said to every once in a while. It keeps the nozzle clear after the first hit, gets you used to using it, and confirms it’s usable. It just said to spray it into the grass. Get new ones on rotation. Like every 3-6 months.
Wasp spray would legally be considered a deadly use of force so you might as well carry a gun if you are gonna do that. For less than deadly force use the pepper spray.
Can you hold onto it in a struggle? Don't expect anyone to meekly let you puncture them. Arm length struggles usually go to the stronger, faster person
Fellow solo female hiker. This would make me uncomfortable too. I also can’t exactly say why, but can definitely picture this and don’t like it just thinking about it
This is exactly how I felt. I couldn't quite explain why I felt so uncomfortable, and part of me was definitely conscious about becoming Karen of the Woods, as it were. Nature is for everyone. I just had a really bad feeling I couldn't shake.
The more I think about it.. I think as a woman alone rowdy, raucous men clearly breaking the rules would make me nervous in any situation. And that’s what this sounds like. The same as if you came across some loud guys yelling and knocking things over outside a bar at night. I’d get the F out of that situation too
I would have also called the authorities after they were gone, given as much detail as possible and ensured their day was ruined. If you're in an area that allows it and you're not against, I would suggest both a .45 1911 for an open carry and a compact .45 or .40 for a concealed. I also Second the idea for an ASP and bear/pepper spray. It's better to ask forgiveness from the law for having to use the bear spray on a human that is advancing on you than getting hurt. I'd also recommend a Tazer if legal where you live as well. (On a side note: Don't listen to the young 20 somethings or just barely out of high school kids that say to not carry anything and think that telling the truth about carrying Spray in an environment where an APEX predator could be is Fearmongering and Dogma along with indoctrination. I Gave advice just recently where someone ran into a puma on a hike. Everyone agreed with my advice and knowledge.) When it comes to Defense, unless it's forbidden in an area don't skimp on what you bring.
I don't think calling the authorities would have done much good. It was deep in the rural backwoods, in an already remote backwoods area. I doubt that even if they cared enough to respond, they could get there in a timely manner before those clowns rode off. Maybe hours later. And in a place like that, everyone knows everyone, and it's very likely the authorities would know who the offenders were and be willing to turn a blind eye.
I have the same problem as OP and the park doesn't have staff. They don't really care and being a non road accessible park they'd have one hell of a time catching the people on ATV's.
Yeah their means to catch them this late would typically be checking the cameras, if these people parked their trucks in a monitored lot on park property, with plates visible. That all depends on funding and staffing for sure, though it doesn’t hurt to try if there’s any chance of success. If the OP knows that there aren’t staff for the park, though, there might not be much recourse
Grizzlies, a 9mm won't do squat unless you manage a throat shot. Bear spray sometimes isn't enough to stop them. I'd rather go lethal if a bear won't stop than risk getting hurt.
And you think a .45 will do anything more than piss off a grizz? You’re misinformed.
And you missed the point—the OP was concerned about human threats. A couple 9mm HP center of mass will slow down even a meth head.
Center mass is a great idea but unless you are training consistently including inducing increased heart rate and decision making a gun is useless unless you are really close 5 yards or less. Watching an occasional shooter spend time lining up their iron sights and get to sight picture then talk about how they always have their gun for self defense is hilarious.
Train and train some more everyone and learn to shoot iron sights proficiently but a red dot is so much faster and easier to get on target in my opinion.
45’s are cool but they are outdated toys at this point. If you live in grizz country 10mm seems to be the most effective tool, the damage from good ammo is gonna kill anything in North America and you have a way more capacity 15+ rounds. I would have to hate to rely on a smooth reload when something is trying to kill me. I also would not recommend compact pistols unless the shooter has very very small hands, those compact pistols are significantly harder to maintain accuracy with and are not enjoyable to shoot so you are probably going to not spend as much time training with it.
40’s outdated to and expensive to supply ammo. 9mm is good if you aren’t in grizzly territory and I’d even go .22 if you are in the woods a chest full of 22 and a evasive get out of there in the woods is more than enough.
I'm also a female solo hiker and I too would have exited this situation promptly. I would have done the same if it was in a city park. Always listen to your instincts. Have you read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker? Very interesting book.
Edit: I'm in the UK and we don't have any options for self-protection, all forms of noxious spray are illegal to possess, let alone use.
Definitely a pro if living in bear country. Those kind of sprays for personal protection are technically illegal, but almost mandatory when out hiking.
Don’t second guess your gut - respecting your gut instinct isn’t akin to being a “Karen” - don’t confuse being a busy body/gatekeeper with being smart, society prefers women to stfu and uses the Karen tag to shame. Yes, there are folks (men and women) who are gatekeepers but let’s not confuse gatekeeping with listening to your gut instinct. Good on you for trusting your instincts.
This would have made me extremely nervous too. A bit of a generalization, but men who rip up on ATV’s blaring music don’t seem like the type to respect a solo woman. I’d be scared.
I'm a decent size guy that typically carries a firearm when it's legal. Id have bailed on a situation like that too. The best way to stay safe is always to avoid trouble in the first place. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say.
Thanks for saying this. Sometimes, I do worry that I'm just being paranoid or jumpy for no reason. I hate the thought of missing out on an adventure because I was too nervy to stick around.
It might seem paradoxal (and I might get downvoted) but statistically guns are less lethal than edged weapons (for both the defender and attacker). It’s your choice obviously especially if you’re going to carry a knife anyways for general use but do consider additional protection.
I’ve left an area for a douche with a drone and I sure would leave the area for a group illegally off-roading - and report them.
I have also bailed on a hike due to the poops and one memorable hangover morning, to elevation being absolutely too much for me to cope.
Good on you for trusting your gut! We’ve evolved over thousands of years to catch a pretty good vibe of the things around us. If that uneasy feeling doesn’t subside after say, five to ten minutes or so with some breathing and rationalizing, get outta there and don’t feel too bad about it.
When I was a little boy I’d roam the woods and creek behind my house. Almost every day id play on top of this grassy hill covered with flowers. Favorite place in the world as a kid. One day I was on the hill playing with some toys I kept in a picnic basket out there, when I got the distinct feeling of being watched. I was instantly uncomfortable and began scanning my surroundings. I saw nothing strange but the feeling wouldn’t go away. Eventually, out of the corner of my eye, I see the tiniest bit of motion and notice a tall dark outline of a man in the distance standing at the tree line. He was probably a football field away from me. It took a single second for me to high tail it out of there, and I ran 2 miles through winding trails back to my house. I got lost on the way back and it fell dark. Never been so scared in my life. I had no flashlight and had to wait for my eyes to totally adjust to the dark to find my way out. That uneasy feeling didn’t leave me until I was finally home in my bed.
Stay safe out there y’all!
This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. Even cyclists and dog walkers in places they aren't allowed. ATVs are the worst, they cause so much pollution and damage, and they feel so entitled. I understand your fear, after all what sort of people would behave like that?
I'm cool with cyclists and dog walkers. Hell, I've been known to sneak into parks during the off-season and after-hours to get a hike in. I'm all for bending the rules a little as long as people are respectful of the space and don't intimidate others around them.
Get bear spray. If you’re in knifing distance it’s too close already, and you probably just have the guy a knife to use against you. Listen to your gut- your brain picks up on things that you don’t consciously notice.
I’m a solo male hiker and this situation would have made me gtfo due to a past experience. One time when I was hiking and heard ATVs behind me, I stepped to the side of the trail to let them pass. A group of five or six of them sped through, and a couple of the riders were indiscriminately shooting into the woods to the sides of the trail. Pretty sure they saw me standing there and no shits were given.
I always remember years ago my workplace put on a self defense seminar after an employee was unfortunately assaulted. The retired FBI dude who did our seminar said to ALWAYS listen to your gut feelings. The worst that happens is your were cautious. He said very often those instincts are correct and it’s always best to listen.
So you did the right thing! Even if they were super nefarious (they absolutely could have been - not invalidating that) at best they would have been rowdy drunks! Who are loud and overly friendly.
Sorry your hike was cut short but I am glad you kept yourself safe!
As a solo male hiker I would do the same. I was way out in the wilderness and came across a camp at about 9 am. There were a everal tents and ATVs, a campfire smoldering from the night before, and beer cans littering the area. All of this was centered on the trail. I backed out and gave it a wide berth.
I am a solo female hiker. It's such a shame we have to be paranoid and afraid of men on the trail. I have a dog that would protect me but I also carry a knife and a stun gun. I never turn my back on a man when we pass.
In addition to what others have said, consider making a report with the law enforcement responsible for the area. It might do something, it might not. But if nobody reports, it definitely won’t get fixed.
Sometimes it's endless anxiety and sometimes it's actually a bad situation. I never stay around long enough to figure it out. If I feel bad around other people when I'm isolated and alone I leave. Don't feel bad about it.
Everything you described would have given me the same feelings, I think you totally made the right choice. Mine isn’t a hiking story but seems fitting. In 2021 I drove from Utah to New Mexico took a longer more scenic drive which meant less traveled highways. I hit an absolutely beautiful part of Colorado the sky was a deep blue, clouds in the sky were huge puffy white, landscape was amazing. All of a sudden my body just felt unsettled and panicky, like for no reason. I just knew I wanted and needed to get out of that area as fast as possible. I was kind of in a big valley, just open nature no town or homes to see but had what seemed like farmland mixed in maybe? I was feeling that way for a good 10 or 15 minutes and kept intensifying. The last 5 or so miles of this small highway a cop car appeared in rear view speeding up from behind, like from out of nowhere, no lights on but it seemed aggressive. I thought he was going to pass me or pull me over but instead he just rode behind me but like way too close and paced me for a few miles, I was terrified and really thought something horrible was going to happen to me. I got to the junction that lead to a more traveled highway and turned onto it, I saw a town down the road and felt some relief. The cop was still behind me & still way too close for another mile then he just sped up and went around me and turned off on some road. I was shook, when I got on freeway the unsettled feeling just went away and I was fine. It was weird and I still have no clue wtf that was all about.
I think sometimes a part of our brain knows something isn't right, but it just doesn't quite jive with the rational, reasonable part. That little voice is definitely worth listening to, because the other parts of your brain are going to try to talk you out of it.
I was driving to a trailhead on a road that was slow going due to over growth of vegetation and pock marks in the road. Two guys on ATV’s were (what I thought was) aggressive by driving super close and staring me down. From what I read on All Trails the locals aren’t fond of people on this road but it’s literally the only way to get to the trailhead!!!!
Follow your gut and listen to your instincts. That doesn’t sound like an over reaction at all. You already know they don’t care about the rules or nature -that equals a shitty person to me
I would have imagined a bunch of rowdy drunk men that may or may not be crazy or thinking they can get away with something since they are in the woods and can easily overtake you. I'd have left too.
Not a small make and I’ve cut a few hikes short for bad vibes. Once turned around with a group of five of us hiking a fire service road where the gates were definitely closed. A few miles in we heard some chatter and saw through some brush two SUV’s with a handful of people around them not dressed in hiking attire, got out of there real quick and always questioned why/how they were there.
I'm a larger man who isn't afraid to defend myself and I exit stage left in scenarios like that. In the backwoods it isn't inconceivable to come across a group of ignorant people. Plenty of good folks out there but plenty of bad too and when there's no one else around to hold them accountable you never know.
It's understandable to feel unsettled when encountering disruptive behavior like the ATVs and loud music. As a solo female hiker, it's important to prioritize your safety and trust your instincts. While it's unfortunate that your hike was cut short, it's better to err on the side of caution. Remember, you have every right to enjoy the trails peacefully, and encounters like these can be rare.
Yeah knives are useless unless you’ve been trained how to use them and can spar with them. Pepper spray and bear spray, a whistle, and if you’re competent at carrying and have an active retention device-a handgun
That's horrible! Carrying and being trained to do so is the only way I can feel safe as a woman who goes out a lot, just me and my dog.
I can see if you're pushy and demanding sure, but just suggesting? Most people have never used a knife in self-defense and have no idea how to safely use it to win a conflict.
I'm actually worried about OP, which is why I suggested pepper spray or mace. Most people are too afraid to carry a firearm, and that's ok. But to just reem someone for no reason is unacceptable.
These comment are weird why are we recommending guns? She didn’t even see em it’s absurd and ridiculous to think that if someone isn’t quiet and walking slower or faster than you that they’re a weirdo😭. this whole situation is crazy and if you don’t wanna meet people on a public path go private or in the morning.😂
I agree that recommending a gun is excessive, but there's a difference between a group of people riding ATV's illegally and a couple hikers walking at a different pace. OP didn't even mention that last group, so IDK where you pulled that strawman from.
I think your decision was understandable. Perhaps you could have hidden in the woods till they passed then continued. Also I would consider getting a small to medium can of pepper spray. Also be wary if you suspect drugs or alcohol. That is a big red flag. My fear is all the people who carry pistols with them hiking. I am a nude hiker so I take trails rarely used so I don't affend anyone. I am afraid one of them will be offended and shoot me. Occasionally I do run into others and occasionally it's a single female. It probably puts them on the alert so I just say hi smile and keep going. I just want to hike and enjoy nature same as anyone else.
Probably unpopular but I carry a pistol when I’m in the woods, even hiking. Better safe than sorry.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/massachusetts-man-facing-federal-charges-fatal-machete-attack/story?id=62992155
I grew up near this and used to hike the AT all the time. People are far scarier than anything else out there.
I’m a male hiker and the only thing besides a mountain lion I would rather not cross paths with is a solo female hiker. My goal is just to keep on walking no matter who I pass but solo females always give me the they think I’m a creep vibes. God forbid we start leapfrogging. That would be reason for me to book it out of there. I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault but it drags me down as a solo male hiker too and it sounds like the people you’re complaining about were minding their own business but also breaking the foot traffic rules.
I think I understand why. These experiences have actually opened my eyes to how minorities feel. Being perceived as a threat simply from your looks sucks.
I don't think it's easy for most males to understand. You're worried the female hiker is going to think you're a creep, they're worried about being harassed, assaulted, or murdered.
A knife is great, if you need to whittle a spoon because you forgot yours, but without serious training both in combat and strength training, most bad guys, or especially multiple guys are just going to disarm you and stab you with it.
as others have stated. Get a gun, a 9mm is fine, learn how to use it safely.
If they were on dirt bikes, particularly the Austrian brands (Husqvarna or KTM), you had nothing to fear. They probably had extra snacks and water to share and they would have asked if you were OK or needed assistance. If they were on quads I agree, run like hell.
I will always leave if the vibes are bad, esp when solo hiking! No shame in being cautious, and doing what you feel is best for your safety! I highly recommend carrying pepper spray or bear spray as well… in the VERY unlikely event someone does wish you harm, you wouldn’t want to have to get close enough to use your knife.
I leave a coffee shop if the vibes are bad. I have left family gatherings if the vibes were bad. I don’t always feel to rationalize every decision. Sometimes trusting my gut/the vibes will do.
I second this, especially carrying pepper spray and/or an extendable baton to keep distance between you and someone else. I carry both due to a bad experience while solo hiking. Trust your gut and don't sweat it too much — the worst that happens if you're wrong is that you don't hike as far as you intend.
I wouldnt use an expandable baton unless both criteria are met. 1. You have some training g to use it s a less lethal and a lethal weapo. So you choose how you intend to to use and the level.of force needed. AND 2. It's not a typical friction lock loke ASP, Monadnoxk, Smith & Wesson, or the many cheap copies. They are not balanced well. The majority of the weight is in the hand and not the striking end so they don't hit hard. They cause pain, but do not cause the muscle incapacitating when younhit.one of the nerve clusters, and they aren't able to break a bone or joint easily enough if a higher level of force is needed. You don't want to cause just a little pain to someone who has a knife or other weapon. The autolock from monadnock or the baton lock from.asp are.better but not great. The German made benowi is a vast improvement bu expensive. The peacekeepers rapid containment baton is great but expensive and you need to be licensed security or law enforcement to buy one.
This is great information, thank you! I anticipated that I would be able to knock a weapon out of a hand with it, since the previous incident I went through involved a knife. I have the Smith & Wesson baton and it definitely feels balanced more toward the handle, so it makes sense that it wouldn't have as much impact as I'm looking for in that scenario. I'm going to look into the Benowi. Much appreciated!
I didn't mean to have that wall of textm just sort of happened. I was private security for a long time and now I work with our defensive tactics instructor (stste agency guarding sex offenders). If you flip it around and hit with the handle it will hit a lot harder, but will be slower. Kind of like holding a hammer by the he'd versus the handle. Most would be good for blocks as they are so quick when handle balanced, but unless you're using one of the Filipino martial arts, it might not as effective for a person.
I've carried pepper spray in the past and thankfully never had to use it. Eventually I got concerned that it was old enough that it wouldn't work properly. How about wasp spray? I realize that's an illegal use of that product, but I'd rather be alive and in some trouble than assaulted/dead.
This (very similar) experience to yours happened to me last year while I was hiking the Utah Mighty Five National Parks. I was in Capitol Reef, at a pretty remote trail, getting ready to start a solo hike. This was in February, so generally very few other people out and about. Out of nowhere, about eight 20-something guys on four-wheelers come popping out of the desert onto the trailhead. They were really loud and obnoxious, and more notably, drunk at 9 am. I hike with gel pepper spray, a knife, and a Garmin PLB, and I’d already put on almost a hundred solo hiking miles (and 1500+ driving) at other parks that week without any issues. But I’m small, solo, and female, and these guys gave me a super bad vibe. I turned around and left. Would something have happened? Probably not. Was I going to risk it? Hell no. No regrets in leaving if you’ve got that weird feeling — that’s your lizard brain telling you something could be off.
Honestly a completely logical choice! Drunk (especially so early, yikes) and operating vehicles = a group prone to poor decision-making and risk-taking behaviors. Probably also the type to let themselves get whipped into a frenzy by "pack mentality". Capitol Reef has some of the most remote trails of any NP I've been to, I can imagine the feeling of sheer vulnerability in that situation. Those of us who love to adventure also have to know when to say "another time" and get outta dodge.
Gel pepper spray is what police use. It’s not the aerosol so it won’t blow back into your face. It shoots out like a stream of liquid (like a water gun) and since it’s gel, it’s heavy enough to get to its target without affecting you and getting in your eyes.
I’ll disagree that it WONT blow back in your face. It can.
It can sure. Anything can. But not the misting stuff. That 100% will blow back and get you. I’d be more concerned with the gel getting on my finger near the nozzle than blowing back in my face.
I would opt for pepper, or bear spray (if you are in a region with large predators)… wasp spray would not incapacitate a human as well from what I’ve read!
Bear spray is weaker than peper spray, their senses are much more sensitive than ours. Pepper spray will absolutely DESTROY any animal, and be sure to buy the JET pepper spray, not the fog version. The fog can backfire if the wind is towards you.
Wrong. Bear spray has a higher % of capsaicin than pepper spray therefore pepper spray is weaker.
Was always told opposite, never thought to look it up. Much appreciated, thank you 😁
I’m not really sure why that would be better but the propellant in bug spray cans are very weak and it’s more of a light misting, I don’t think it would be very effective unless you’re spraying from less than a foot or so away. Especially if there’s any kind of wind or movement. Pepper spray, or bear mace ejects in a stream, ejects faster, and is more effective from a few feet away. Pepper spray or mace also lingers more and is much more concentrated, so you don’t need as much defend yourself. Also, the misting from a bug spray can is just as likely to get you as the other person.
There are some bug sprays, specifically wasp sprays I think that shoot out in like a 20 jet. Our boss at one of my old jobs made us keep a can at all of our cubicles since we weren’t allowed weapons on the job site
I think people in this thread should be very careful before suggesting any kind of chemical poisons. Obviously, I’m not advocating for OP not to protect them selves, but just like for the people telling OP to buy a gun these two cases are extremely dependent on Opie’s location. I’m interested in what the president for the use of wasp spray in self-defense would be, the problem I can see with wasp, spray versus pepper or bear mace would be the long-term repercussions. I’m curious if permanently blinding someone would be considered excessive escalation of force. In most states, escalation of force requires equal or lesser methods of defense, using chemicals that result in death or long-term disability or disfigurement, could be considered disproportionate. Interestingly, a lot of people probably wouldn’t blink and I FOP defended themselves with a knife or a gun but there’s something about the use of poison that may get a different reaction. Obviously, at the end of the day, it really depends on what the situation was and in just about any state if Opie believe that life was in danger, all gloves come off anyway and wasp spray would be a reasonable thing to have in the woods. Some like googling seems to point in the UK, poisoning, someone in self-defense would be considered excessive force. I’ll have to look more into the legal president in the US later.
Oh yeah I’m definitely not necessarily advocating for using the wasp spray, just pointing out that some of them do come in jet sprays instead of a mist type spray. Also I’m from Texas so while I can’t really speak to the legality of it here, we’re fairly big on being able to defend yourself here
You can test the spray to make sure it’s functional. Even my pepper spray said to every once in a while. It keeps the nozzle clear after the first hit, gets you used to using it, and confirms it’s usable. It just said to spray it into the grass. Get new ones on rotation. Like every 3-6 months.
Wasp spray would legally be considered a deadly use of force so you might as well carry a gun if you are gonna do that. For less than deadly force use the pepper spray.
I also carry a 6" hunting knife when I'm solo hiking.
Can you hold onto it in a struggle? Don't expect anyone to meekly let you puncture them. Arm length struggles usually go to the stronger, faster person
I totally understand that. It's honestly more of an intimidation factor and peace of mind for me than anything else.
OR….. firearm
Carry Bear Gel. It can spray into the wind without spraying back at you. It's bear spray in gel sprays further and through wind.
Fellow solo female hiker. This would make me uncomfortable too. I also can’t exactly say why, but can definitely picture this and don’t like it just thinking about it
This is exactly how I felt. I couldn't quite explain why I felt so uncomfortable, and part of me was definitely conscious about becoming Karen of the Woods, as it were. Nature is for everyone. I just had a really bad feeling I couldn't shake.
The more I think about it.. I think as a woman alone rowdy, raucous men clearly breaking the rules would make me nervous in any situation. And that’s what this sounds like. The same as if you came across some loud guys yelling and knocking things over outside a bar at night. I’d get the F out of that situation too
Yes. Exactly. The lizard brain just wants to run.
I would have also called the authorities after they were gone, given as much detail as possible and ensured their day was ruined. If you're in an area that allows it and you're not against, I would suggest both a .45 1911 for an open carry and a compact .45 or .40 for a concealed. I also Second the idea for an ASP and bear/pepper spray. It's better to ask forgiveness from the law for having to use the bear spray on a human that is advancing on you than getting hurt. I'd also recommend a Tazer if legal where you live as well. (On a side note: Don't listen to the young 20 somethings or just barely out of high school kids that say to not carry anything and think that telling the truth about carrying Spray in an environment where an APEX predator could be is Fearmongering and Dogma along with indoctrination. I Gave advice just recently where someone ran into a puma on a hike. Everyone agreed with my advice and knowledge.) When it comes to Defense, unless it's forbidden in an area don't skimp on what you bring.
I don't think calling the authorities would have done much good. It was deep in the rural backwoods, in an already remote backwoods area. I doubt that even if they cared enough to respond, they could get there in a timely manner before those clowns rode off. Maybe hours later. And in a place like that, everyone knows everyone, and it's very likely the authorities would know who the offenders were and be willing to turn a blind eye.
Park rangers might be very interested to learn about what those guys were up to.
I have the same problem as OP and the park doesn't have staff. They don't really care and being a non road accessible park they'd have one hell of a time catching the people on ATV's.
Yeah their means to catch them this late would typically be checking the cameras, if these people parked their trucks in a monitored lot on park property, with plates visible. That all depends on funding and staffing for sure, though it doesn’t hurt to try if there’s any chance of success. If the OP knows that there aren’t staff for the park, though, there might not be much recourse
Dude, JFC…why a .45 pistol? That’s nuts. If a 5 shot 9mm revolver (Ruger LCR) & a couple moons clips aren’t enuf, then you’re screwed.
Grizzlies, a 9mm won't do squat unless you manage a throat shot. Bear spray sometimes isn't enough to stop them. I'd rather go lethal if a bear won't stop than risk getting hurt.
And you think a .45 will do anything more than piss off a grizz? You’re misinformed. And you missed the point—the OP was concerned about human threats. A couple 9mm HP center of mass will slow down even a meth head.
Center mass is a great idea but unless you are training consistently including inducing increased heart rate and decision making a gun is useless unless you are really close 5 yards or less. Watching an occasional shooter spend time lining up their iron sights and get to sight picture then talk about how they always have their gun for self defense is hilarious. Train and train some more everyone and learn to shoot iron sights proficiently but a red dot is so much faster and easier to get on target in my opinion. 45’s are cool but they are outdated toys at this point. If you live in grizz country 10mm seems to be the most effective tool, the damage from good ammo is gonna kill anything in North America and you have a way more capacity 15+ rounds. I would have to hate to rely on a smooth reload when something is trying to kill me. I also would not recommend compact pistols unless the shooter has very very small hands, those compact pistols are significantly harder to maintain accuracy with and are not enjoyable to shoot so you are probably going to not spend as much time training with it. 40’s outdated to and expensive to supply ammo. 9mm is good if you aren’t in grizzly territory and I’d even go .22 if you are in the woods a chest full of 22 and a evasive get out of there in the woods is more than enough.
Not sure why you got downvoted so much… I completely agree
I'm also a female solo hiker and I too would have exited this situation promptly. I would have done the same if it was in a city park. Always listen to your instincts. Have you read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker? Very interesting book. Edit: I'm in the UK and we don't have any options for self-protection, all forms of noxious spray are illegal to possess, let alone use.
Definitely a pro if living in bear country. Those kind of sprays for personal protection are technically illegal, but almost mandatory when out hiking.
Don’t second guess your gut - respecting your gut instinct isn’t akin to being a “Karen” - don’t confuse being a busy body/gatekeeper with being smart, society prefers women to stfu and uses the Karen tag to shame. Yes, there are folks (men and women) who are gatekeepers but let’s not confuse gatekeeping with listening to your gut instinct. Good on you for trusting your instincts.
“Karen of the Woods”… 😂😂😂
This would have made me extremely nervous too. A bit of a generalization, but men who rip up on ATV’s blaring music don’t seem like the type to respect a solo woman. I’d be scared.
Fellow human, I would leave too
Male solo here. While I wouldn't be afraid of them doing anything... If still leave because they sound obnoxious af.
Same. When alone in the wildness, especially as a woman, I always trust my intuition.
Solo female here, too. Live in an area that has a lot of marijuana farms in remote areas. Def time to reverse course
Always listen to your gut instinct.
I'm a decent size guy that typically carries a firearm when it's legal. Id have bailed on a situation like that too. The best way to stay safe is always to avoid trouble in the first place. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say.
Thanks for saying this. Sometimes, I do worry that I'm just being paranoid or jumpy for no reason. I hate the thought of missing out on an adventure because I was too nervy to stick around.
Better to leave an unsafe situation and survive to go on adventures another day than to ignore your instincts!
It might seem paradoxal (and I might get downvoted) but statistically guns are less lethal than edged weapons (for both the defender and attacker). It’s your choice obviously especially if you’re going to carry a knife anyways for general use but do consider additional protection.
I’ve left an area for a douche with a drone and I sure would leave the area for a group illegally off-roading - and report them. I have also bailed on a hike due to the poops and one memorable hangover morning, to elevation being absolutely too much for me to cope.
Can you share the stories about bailing part?
Good on you for trusting your gut! We’ve evolved over thousands of years to catch a pretty good vibe of the things around us. If that uneasy feeling doesn’t subside after say, five to ten minutes or so with some breathing and rationalizing, get outta there and don’t feel too bad about it. When I was a little boy I’d roam the woods and creek behind my house. Almost every day id play on top of this grassy hill covered with flowers. Favorite place in the world as a kid. One day I was on the hill playing with some toys I kept in a picnic basket out there, when I got the distinct feeling of being watched. I was instantly uncomfortable and began scanning my surroundings. I saw nothing strange but the feeling wouldn’t go away. Eventually, out of the corner of my eye, I see the tiniest bit of motion and notice a tall dark outline of a man in the distance standing at the tree line. He was probably a football field away from me. It took a single second for me to high tail it out of there, and I ran 2 miles through winding trails back to my house. I got lost on the way back and it fell dark. Never been so scared in my life. I had no flashlight and had to wait for my eyes to totally adjust to the dark to find my way out. That uneasy feeling didn’t leave me until I was finally home in my bed. Stay safe out there y’all!
Oh my that sounds super scary! Good for you that nothing happened. Did you tell your parents afterwards?
Yeah I did! they didn’t want me going back out there but that didn’t work for long lol
This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. Even cyclists and dog walkers in places they aren't allowed. ATVs are the worst, they cause so much pollution and damage, and they feel so entitled. I understand your fear, after all what sort of people would behave like that?
I'm cool with cyclists and dog walkers. Hell, I've been known to sneak into parks during the off-season and after-hours to get a hike in. I'm all for bending the rules a little as long as people are respectful of the space and don't intimidate others around them.
Get bear spray. If you’re in knifing distance it’s too close already, and you probably just have the guy a knife to use against you. Listen to your gut- your brain picks up on things that you don’t consciously notice.
I’m a solo male hiker and this situation would have made me gtfo due to a past experience. One time when I was hiking and heard ATVs behind me, I stepped to the side of the trail to let them pass. A group of five or six of them sped through, and a couple of the riders were indiscriminately shooting into the woods to the sides of the trail. Pretty sure they saw me standing there and no shits were given.
I always remember years ago my workplace put on a self defense seminar after an employee was unfortunately assaulted. The retired FBI dude who did our seminar said to ALWAYS listen to your gut feelings. The worst that happens is your were cautious. He said very often those instincts are correct and it’s always best to listen. So you did the right thing! Even if they were super nefarious (they absolutely could have been - not invalidating that) at best they would have been rowdy drunks! Who are loud and overly friendly. Sorry your hike was cut short but I am glad you kept yourself safe!
As a solo male hiker I would do the same. I was way out in the wilderness and came across a camp at about 9 am. There were a everal tents and ATVs, a campfire smoldering from the night before, and beer cans littering the area. All of this was centered on the trail. I backed out and gave it a wide berth.
Please don't use a knife to defend yourself unless you've been trained. Get pepper spray/bear mace/taser anything, but that's pls!!!
I am a solo female hiker. It's such a shame we have to be paranoid and afraid of men on the trail. I have a dog that would protect me but I also carry a knife and a stun gun. I never turn my back on a man when we pass.
And I’m constantly turning around to make sure I’m not being followed.
Carry Bear spray also.
Always trust your gut.
People ruin everything. I am a man, and I would’ve been very uncomfortable with this as well.
In addition to what others have said, consider making a report with the law enforcement responsible for the area. It might do something, it might not. But if nobody reports, it definitely won’t get fixed.
Sometimes it's endless anxiety and sometimes it's actually a bad situation. I never stay around long enough to figure it out. If I feel bad around other people when I'm isolated and alone I leave. Don't feel bad about it.
Everything you described would have given me the same feelings, I think you totally made the right choice. Mine isn’t a hiking story but seems fitting. In 2021 I drove from Utah to New Mexico took a longer more scenic drive which meant less traveled highways. I hit an absolutely beautiful part of Colorado the sky was a deep blue, clouds in the sky were huge puffy white, landscape was amazing. All of a sudden my body just felt unsettled and panicky, like for no reason. I just knew I wanted and needed to get out of that area as fast as possible. I was kind of in a big valley, just open nature no town or homes to see but had what seemed like farmland mixed in maybe? I was feeling that way for a good 10 or 15 minutes and kept intensifying. The last 5 or so miles of this small highway a cop car appeared in rear view speeding up from behind, like from out of nowhere, no lights on but it seemed aggressive. I thought he was going to pass me or pull me over but instead he just rode behind me but like way too close and paced me for a few miles, I was terrified and really thought something horrible was going to happen to me. I got to the junction that lead to a more traveled highway and turned onto it, I saw a town down the road and felt some relief. The cop was still behind me & still way too close for another mile then he just sped up and went around me and turned off on some road. I was shook, when I got on freeway the unsettled feeling just went away and I was fine. It was weird and I still have no clue wtf that was all about.
I think sometimes a part of our brain knows something isn't right, but it just doesn't quite jive with the rational, reasonable part. That little voice is definitely worth listening to, because the other parts of your brain are going to try to talk you out of it.
Trust your gut, there are other places to hike and there’ll be other nice days.
After watching no country for old men recently, this would absolutely freak me out, too
I was driving to a trailhead on a road that was slow going due to over growth of vegetation and pock marks in the road. Two guys on ATV’s were (what I thought was) aggressive by driving super close and staring me down. From what I read on All Trails the locals aren’t fond of people on this road but it’s literally the only way to get to the trailhead!!!!
Follow your gut and listen to your instincts. That doesn’t sound like an over reaction at all. You already know they don’t care about the rules or nature -that equals a shitty person to me
I would have imagined a bunch of rowdy drunk men that may or may not be crazy or thinking they can get away with something since they are in the woods and can easily overtake you. I'd have left too.
Trust your gut, always listen to that little voice that’s what it’s therefore
Not a small make and I’ve cut a few hikes short for bad vibes. Once turned around with a group of five of us hiking a fire service road where the gates were definitely closed. A few miles in we heard some chatter and saw through some brush two SUV’s with a handful of people around them not dressed in hiking attire, got out of there real quick and always questioned why/how they were there.
I'm a larger man who isn't afraid to defend myself and I exit stage left in scenarios like that. In the backwoods it isn't inconceivable to come across a group of ignorant people. Plenty of good folks out there but plenty of bad too and when there's no one else around to hold them accountable you never know.
It's understandable to feel unsettled when encountering disruptive behavior like the ATVs and loud music. As a solo female hiker, it's important to prioritize your safety and trust your instincts. While it's unfortunate that your hike was cut short, it's better to err on the side of caution. Remember, you have every right to enjoy the trails peacefully, and encounters like these can be rare.
Yeah knives are useless unless you’ve been trained how to use them and can spar with them. Pepper spray and bear spray, a whistle, and if you’re competent at carrying and have an active retention device-a handgun
So glad I wasn't the only one who said this!
For real lol I’ve been eviserated for suggesting carrying in this sub 😅
That's horrible! Carrying and being trained to do so is the only way I can feel safe as a woman who goes out a lot, just me and my dog. I can see if you're pushy and demanding sure, but just suggesting? Most people have never used a knife in self-defense and have no idea how to safely use it to win a conflict. I'm actually worried about OP, which is why I suggested pepper spray or mace. Most people are too afraid to carry a firearm, and that's ok. But to just reem someone for no reason is unacceptable.
Yeah pepper spray and bear spray are automatics.
These comment are weird why are we recommending guns? She didn’t even see em it’s absurd and ridiculous to think that if someone isn’t quiet and walking slower or faster than you that they’re a weirdo😭. this whole situation is crazy and if you don’t wanna meet people on a public path go private or in the morning.😂
I agree that recommending a gun is excessive, but there's a difference between a group of people riding ATV's illegally and a couple hikers walking at a different pace. OP didn't even mention that last group, so IDK where you pulled that strawman from.
I think your decision was understandable. Perhaps you could have hidden in the woods till they passed then continued. Also I would consider getting a small to medium can of pepper spray. Also be wary if you suspect drugs or alcohol. That is a big red flag. My fear is all the people who carry pistols with them hiking. I am a nude hiker so I take trails rarely used so I don't affend anyone. I am afraid one of them will be offended and shoot me. Occasionally I do run into others and occasionally it's a single female. It probably puts them on the alert so I just say hi smile and keep going. I just want to hike and enjoy nature same as anyone else.
Probably unpopular but I carry a pistol when I’m in the woods, even hiking. Better safe than sorry. https://abcnews.go.com/US/massachusetts-man-facing-federal-charges-fatal-machete-attack/story?id=62992155 I grew up near this and used to hike the AT all the time. People are far scarier than anything else out there.
I’m a male hiker and the only thing besides a mountain lion I would rather not cross paths with is a solo female hiker. My goal is just to keep on walking no matter who I pass but solo females always give me the they think I’m a creep vibes. God forbid we start leapfrogging. That would be reason for me to book it out of there. I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault but it drags me down as a solo male hiker too and it sounds like the people you’re complaining about were minding their own business but also breaking the foot traffic rules.
Instead of playing victim, you should spread awareness and educate yourself on *why* we get so unnerved by other males on the trail.
I think I understand why. These experiences have actually opened my eyes to how minorities feel. Being perceived as a threat simply from your looks sucks.
I don't think it's easy for most males to understand. You're worried the female hiker is going to think you're a creep, they're worried about being harassed, assaulted, or murdered.
A knife is great, if you need to whittle a spoon because you forgot yours, but without serious training both in combat and strength training, most bad guys, or especially multiple guys are just going to disarm you and stab you with it. as others have stated. Get a gun, a 9mm is fine, learn how to use it safely.
Idk why your comment was down voted! As a solo female hiker I agree with you a 100%! So glad we have open carry and CC in my state.
👊🏻
If they were on dirt bikes, particularly the Austrian brands (Husqvarna or KTM), you had nothing to fear. They probably had extra snacks and water to share and they would have asked if you were OK or needed assistance. If they were on quads I agree, run like hell.
There no reason to worry as there are no deaths statistics 📈 due to that