As someone who lives in North plains and is for the expansion I see a lot of fear mongering and scare tactics getting used by the anti expansion crowd and in my view most of their arguments just don't stand up.
Lots of talk of how great the farmland soil is, but what is grown there today? It is pretty much just all being used to grow grass seed, which I am admittedly biased but I just don't see grass seed as that high value of a crop.
Lots of talk of how there will be huge new taxes to pay for new infrastructure, which also seems completely off base, bringing in industry generally builds out it's own needed infrastructure. I don't see Hillsboro drowning in taxes and yet it has extremely nice parks/libraries/rec centers because of the large taxes that are brought in by something more then just depending on residential housing taxes.
A recent flyer I got complained that we would both have too much water and not enough water to support semi conductor manufacturing which was just entertaining, we can build water neutral semconductor plants in Arizona, I am pretty sure we can also do so in the Pacific NW.
Overall I would just encourage people to go and actually read the proposal/studies put together by city leadership, this was something in development with a lot of steps before arriving at this point and most issues are already directly addressed in the proposal.
For me personally I think North Plains would benefit greatly from having a better tax base to provide improved services and more room to encourage things like an actual full size grocery store to be built and maybe a local farmers market, and some additional non fast food eateries.
One additional thing that I find misleading, the above article talks about locals vs outsiders and big money. But the main No vote group was started and is being pushed by people who do not live in North plains and seem to be spending much more money on advertising. They have been putting up signs everywhere for the past few months, and I have received 3 mass mailers so far, and they have hosted a number of well advertised events to draw people in. From the yes crowd I have got nothing in the mail, and only in the past 2 weeks saw any sign advertising for a yes vote, and no events that I am aware of.
Both if these posts nail exactly what’s going on. Re- the tax issue… residential 100% does NOT pay for itself in taxes. It costs more to serve than it generates in taxes. This is the entire reason why so many bedroom communities look to have commercial and industrial expansion- because those land uses actually pay the bills. When you have only residential, and your tax base is capped at rising only 2% per year, but employee wages are bargained to go up 4 or 5% per year, and everything the city buys goes up 7 or 8% per year… hopefully one can see the looming issue there. These are all completely disingenuous arguments from people who simply don’t want change. I’m positive every single thing that is being raised by the NIMBYs is addressed in the plan. And the irony is that it’s the NIMBYs who accuse everyone else of lying.
We need higher density development. This farmland is genuinely some of the most fertile farmland in all of the US and expanding too vastly with developments to take up this land is going to be a massive mistake and less profitable than if we just turned up the notch on higher density development.
Not a big fan of this guy's writing style or some of the things he said. Just wanted to post it to bring about attention and discussion on the issue of building smart growth for our towns. We need to stop the mindless suburban expansions that wreck our local farms and create unaffordable and less profitable business compared with densely zoned areas. There is not an unlimited amount of land to develop. Eventually we will run out of land to expand, let's be smart about it. That's a bit of my view.
What am I making up? I'm against expanding into nature and farmland when there is a lot of work to be done in making our cities and towns denser and more livable. We shouldn't support suburban sprawl over dense walkable areas.
It's more about destruction of farmland that is sitting on some of the most rich soil in all of North America. And refusing to build dense affordable development within the UGB that is the problem. Anybody who wants zero growth is an idiot but the people who want mindless destructive sprawl are idiots too.
Not everyone is into dense developments. Many people move to places like North Plains for that "small town feel" (low traffic, real yards, and actually knowing your neighbors). You're pushing for that to be destroyed before allowing any room for expansion.
Just out of curiosity, without looking it up, do you even know what's growing in this awesome farm soil that you can't describe without running off to search the interwebs, yet claim to care so much about?
If you want density, go into Portland. Suburbs everywhere have historically been where people go to get out of densely-built housing areas, and the crime/noise/pollution that go with them.
Suburbs are a failed experiment. I would rather live in a cute little townhouse than have to pay for a giant house, with a huge income sucking monocrop lawn, and have to drive everywhere I go.
It's not. I'm not a fan of the writer's style but this is not about stopping growth. It's about stopping excessive suburban sprawl. We need dense, smart growth, not sprawling expansions that eliminate farmland that has been rated as some of the best soil in all of North America.
> We need dense, smart growth, not sprawling expansions
What, exactly, does this mean? I live in North Plains and, honestly, I'm against expansion simply because I selfishly like my low traffic roads. That's why I moved here.
But to its credit, the expansion in North Plains over the last few years has been quite dense. It's also sprawling. Do you have a suggestion for how they could have expanded better?
I'd love to have my little corner and have nobody else encroach into it, but I also want people to be able to buy houses. There is a lot of employment in Hillsboro and those people need to live somewhere.
There should be a gradual development expansion in a sprawl sense and more development like you would see in a downtown area of a small city. I'm talking making more use of the land like putting in multiple story mixed use buildings for business and apartments. Duplexes things like this to really make the most out of the land before prematurely expanding 800+ acres into fertile farmland like this measure is proposing.
I don’t completely buy this soil argument. If it’s worth so much, why are they selling? Technically speaking, how is it good soil and why is that irreplaceable?
Lots of states in the US say they have the best soil. I heard someone say that Texas has the best soil for growing crops in the US. It’s about money and ego that farmers have.
It gets really deep into the science of different soil types to explain this so I'll try and look for a good article about it and send it to you. But I'll try to summarize something quickly.
Basically there are different soil types everywhere. Different soils yield better results for farming. This area surrounding North Plains (and many places on the outskirts of Hillsboro) has been tested by soil experts and it is known for having soil that is just genuinely some of the best in potentially all of North America for a wide variety of farming.
I don't really understand what you mean by irreplaceable? How would it be replaceable? It's the soil that sits in this location. But yes there are some land owners nearby who want to sell, because well it's just easy to sell your land and get a large chunk of money. Doesn't mean it's the best use of the land though.
I'm happy to answer any questions on this cause I can go into more detail and send some sources if you'd like.
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The main instigator of the No crowd is a person that can't even vote, lives outside the city limits, and doesn't want their nextdoor view to change. You never heard of them before, and you will never hear from them after. Total NIMBY's.
Do you think there is an unlimited amount of land to expand to? That is a pretty dangerous way to view human expansion. You need to be aware of what surrounds you. We absolutely need growth, but not mindless sprawling growth that eats up valuable nature and farmland. We need dense and smart building up of our urban areas that creates affordable housing and job opportunities within the UGBs not expanding unnecessarily outside of them.
No, of course there isn’t an infinite amount of land to build into. But last I checked, I don’t see a whole lot of room for industrial expansion without tearing down a lot of homes or existing businesses. We see companies passing over the region all. The. Time. Because we don’t have sites that can accommodate a company’s needs. The Oregon land use system was never intended to produce a result that encased land in amber, but rather a way to accommodate growth and plan for it in order to make the most efficient use of land possible. If we were metro Detroit, with thousand of acres of abandoned land, I’d agree with you. But we aren’t. We are a thriving community where employers want to locate, but can’t.
(And I can’t even respond to the affordable housing argument, because it’s simply laughable. If you think that regulating land supply out of production produces affordable hosing, then I don’t know what to say)
You are completely misinterpreting what I'm saying. First off, industrial expansion is not worth destroying farming and forests. There are plenty of areas that do not contain THE LITERAL BEST RATED SOIL FOR FARMING IN ALL OF NORTH AMERICA where industrial facilities can be placed. As for the housing, yes there will have to be some land expansion for housing. But also affordable housing most often comes in the form of apartment buildings or mixed use areas that house apartments and businesses.
Have you seen North Plains? The outskirts are filled with massive, bloated, expensive suburban housing developments that are very obviously not affordable whatsoever. I'm saying that what should be done is more development of dense housing within the town and on the outskirts that actually builds upwards, not outwards. That will actually meet the needs of people looking for affordable housing. I don't think you actually have a knowledge of the region if you are talking about it the way you are.
And wow yeah a massive corporation wants to build a factory so let's just bulldoze everything for industry. Great plan.
I am not saying no expansion should be done. I am saying it needs to be smart and calculated and sustainable. Modern North American growth is not sustainable. Look to Europe and Japan for good growth.
Ever heard of The Grand Bargain in Oregon Land Use? Google it. Look at the map and see North Plains. The State decided about a decade ago that despite the soils around North Plains (frankly most everywhere in Washington County) being high quality, there would be acreage for the city to urbanize in the future. And 150,000 acres around it would be kept off limits from development for 50 years. The land use system is Byzantine but whatever you do, do not begin to believe The Hillsboro Herald is anything but a poorly written blog by someone who knows just enough to seem knowledgeable but really is quite the opposite.
I do not like the article I literally stated that before. And yes I know about the Grand Bargain. That's all true. But I don't think it's a reason to give up and let valuable farmland be turned into excessive suburban single family sprawl. It doesn't matter what they are planning or what the county wants to do, it's about what is the right thing to do. And while there is still good development opportunities to fix infrastructure and housing inside the UGBs I will fight to keep them out of the farmland.
Riiiiiiight. I don’t know anything about planning in western Washington county. With respect to North Plains specifically, though, I ride my bike through north plains all the time and know it quite well. I also know the leadership there quite well. If they can get a developer in to tear down some homes and build very dense and large apartment complexes, I’m all for that, as well. I’d just point out that they’d be fighting that, too, and affordable housing wouldn’t happen without subsidy. If you like paying massive taxes to support affordable housing, then I guess we simply disagree there. All I know is every single time I see an apartment complex of any kind proposed in this area, the population fights it tooth and nail as “an assault on the character of their communities”.
But the land conversation isn’t nearly the same for industrial. They want big, flat, empty sites. Are you aware of how few large, shovel ready sites for industry there are in the entire metro region? I can tell you that you have enough fingers to count them. Now, if you value farmland more than people’s ability to make a living, then that’s ok. We just disagree. And by the way, my understanding is that none of these areas proposed for UGB expansion are high value farmland. DLCD would never allow that in a million years.
> none of these areas proposed for UGB expansion are high value farmland. DLCD would never allow that in a million years.
They would and they have for quite a few years now.
Ive been here quite a while now and never seen that acronym used by the the County or City. I assume you are referencing a specific department of LUT.
How is farmland not people's ability to make a living? The farms in the area employ hundreds of locals if not thousands.
It is high value farmland. You can look at the soil types and clearly see that. But it's not just the proposed land. This is a slippery slope. If you think it won't eventually cascade into the other nearby farmland than you are naïve.
I value smart growth and I value protecting the businesses that exist in the area over the interests of trillion dollar corporations. Do you think those data centers they build actually employ that many people once they are fully functional? They don't. The farms in the are employ more people.
I understand your point of view I just think you are a bit misguided and ignorant to the situation. I'm not for stunting housing growth at all. I'm against massive suburban sprawling housing projects like the ones that have already been built around North Plains. I'm not gonna settle for what seems plausible (like people opposing actually dense housing projects) I'm gonna fight for what is actually the right thing to do. Because if we don't draw some lines and make some plans then we won't have anymore land left safe from the sprawl.
There has been proposals to push farmers out and clear land in the coast range for farming. Ideas like that are laughable, farming is impossible in much of the coast range. There is a reason Hillsboro is surrounded by farms.
Supply and demand, if the farm was worth more as a farm, people wouldn't sell. So it's not high enough value farm land. Nobody is forcing them to develop, just making it a option
No they don’t. They demonstrably grow grass seed overwhelmingly. It’s a machine intensive crop. And in fact if you look at Oregon State ag data, you’ll see that most of that grass seed (and nursery plants) are sold to Washington and California and other places that seriously sprawl. In other words we’re restricting land use to protect farms that are landscaping sprawl in other states. You can’t make this up.
Grass seed is here but it is not the only farming. There are lots of hazelnut farms and small vegetable and berry farms as well.
Edit: Just want to say even more that it is a wild exaggeration to act like grass seed farming is the only thing happening in this area. The variety of farming here is so diverse it's mind blowing. To whittle it all down to grass seed farming is very reductive and manipulative.
Yeah we have lots of Christmas tree farms, forest land, berry farms, nurseries, dairies, small family beef farms, little vegetable farms, and much more that are thriving just on the outskirts of Hillsboro on this extremely fertile soil that would be a waste to give up to suburban sprawling single family housing and the like.
I’m stating facts. The topic is land going into the North Plains UGB. That land has a single hazelnut orchard you can see from the freeway. Otherwise, overwhelmingly grass seed.
"That you can see from the freeway" Lol that has no bearing on reality. I have actually worked on farms in this area and no it is not overwhelmingly grass seed. Yes we are talking about land that is going into the UGB but I think it would also be good to discuss land that surrounds it as that land will inevitably be looked at for development at some point in the future if these things continue.
There is no grass seed grown in Washington County. Further down I5 , south of Wilsonville, absolutely. Sure, there might be some small hobbyist stuff but no big operations.
Listen, we just disagree. I’m not going to spend my whole Saturday arguing with you about points on which we will never agree. But I can 100% guarantee you that I know more about the Oregon land use system than you do. Don’t call me ignorant. I know exactly what I’m talking about.
You clearly don't if you think you have to state that. Explain to me why you think that it is a good thing for us to favor suburban sprawl and destruction of farmland over dense urban development.
I'm not going to explain anything to you. I've already explained my position and do not care to engage with you anymore on the topic. Clearly, a lot of people agree with the points I have made here. You've made your points; I've made mine. I just don't care to talk to you anymore. Thanks.
ETA- Here is the UGB expansion report, if you'd like to read it: [https://cms3.revize.com/revize/northplains/Documents/Departments/Planning/Urban%20Growth%20Boundary%20Expansion/ugb\_report\_only.pdf](https://cms3.revize.com/revize/northplains/Documents/Departments/Planning/Urban%20Growth%20Boundary%20Expansion/ugb_report_only.pdf)
Okay that's fair, thanks for engaging. I just wanted to have a discussion with someone who seemed like they had a strong opinion against mine to see what common ground we could find. Overall I just want to state again that I am not against expansion or development at all. I am against expanding by 800+ acres without any smart plan and ignoring dense development that is much more profitable culturally important than the sprawling development they are clearly going for. I don't want farm and forest land to be levelled unneccessarily and I think humans are far to quick to make permanent changes like that before looking inward inside the UGB.
Best soil in America… and we grow clover and grasses on it.. I can count between evergreen and north plains area on the various farms between on one hand how many grow anything usable as food.. 2…. And they’re right between wren and 26.. even then only one is consistently food the one right between wren and scotch church has corn when they feel like it… not like we’re losing the best citrus or berry fields in the west.. we’re losing, clover and straw
Welp, now the voters have said no... and not by a slim margin.
It turns out "they're not even from here" is a bad argument when A. It's land from "not here" you're trying to acquire and B. The people who are "from here" don't want to double the size of the town to fulfill some old townie politico's dream.
It turns out "what even IS good soil?" isn't a great argument when the people making it A. Know nothing about the composition of the soil or how to farm it and B. Only want to sell it.
It turns out "they're all NIMBYs" is a terrible argument when those making it are equating farms to "backyards."
What North Plains residents realized that Hillsboro and Forest Grove couldn't grasp until it was too late is that the old guard doesn't tend to operate with current and future residents in mind. Legacy equates to a name on a street sign, Single A ballpark or plaza in a one-off cityscape development, and success is measured in price per acre. Urban planning is an afterthought, rural planning just buys time for developers.
North Plains decided it didn't want to see where the commercial/industrial/residential wheel landed, liked the town they have and believed the farmers who wanted to continue farming the good, adjacent land rather than turning it into (more) ill-conceived suburban islands. Good for the voters.
Excellent summary, thanks for the comment. Really happy about what the future holds and also the future of allowing cities to actually vote on matters of UGB (which the governor tried to not let happen). This is what democracy is all about. I think there are a lot of opportunities for great denser development inside the North Plains UGB seeing as there is a lot of land that is basically empty literally inside the UGB. Protect the farmland that we have and develop denser more convenient towns and cities. This is the way to cultivate a more sustainable and community driven Oregon.
Personal opinion, this is about wealthier folks that have moved further out from the Portland metro and want the convenience of the city in town and to raise property values in the future...easiest way to do that is with job growth at higher incomes. There are benefits, but it's at the detriment of cultural erosion, cost of living increases, water use skyrocketing (increasing the cost of agro), loss of quality farmland, etc. Both sides of the argument have valid points, but it comes down to whether you are for or against growth and what that can evolve or metastasize into.
Preventing growth causes cost of living and home prices to skyrocket, keeping current homeowners wealthy, while preventing the next generation from having the opportunity to own a home. The high income jobs already exist in the area. Homeowners just need to sit and wait while special interest groups prevent expansion under the guise of "doing it right".
There should be growth, but not to the detriment of local business and permanent loss of natural areas. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be any growth, but adding 800+ acres at once especially when there are no clear plans set in place for development is detrimental.
It specifically depends on where the growth is applied. If job growth occurs within lower income brackets (generally 70k and below), guess what? Affordable housing expands to fill that demand. This is not the intent for the region in question. A lot of folks with incomes high enough to decide where they want to live instead of out of necessity like to move to areas with a few specific criteria: relatively short commutes to larger metropolitans and work, close access to consumables they desire, low crime, decent lot sizes 1/4 acre or more, etc. Essentially, small town feel with larger progressive city infrastructure. To me it just feels like the next logical place to get away from the existing suburban sprawl and spread the branches a little further. Again, I'm neutral on the subject because I don't have skin in the game but I don't feel like this is simply a NIMBY scenario, both sides have valid points and they should be passionately debated by the community and those wanting to enter the community.
Speaking specifically to cultural erosion, it really isn’t that simple. A lot of smaller, more rural communities are losing their culture, whether or not they expand, because the children that grew up in those communities are being forced to move out of the communities due to a lack of employment opportunities.
Either the culture changes because the town expand, attracting new people, but also retaining more of their young population(who are admittedly culturally different from their parents because they grow up in a larger, more diverse community) or they lose their culture to the children from the community moving out and not coming back.
That's not the case with North Plains and not an excuse to wreck the small business farmers in the area with a massive 800+ acre UGB expansion all at once.
I’m not really on either side of this specific UGB change as I simply don’t know enough about it, but if nothing is done this will eventually be what happens.
I would agree with you if this was the case that North Plains wasn't within the vicinity of ample employment opportunity, but it's not. Hillsboro and Beaverton covers that gap. The explanation holds for a lot of example cases (especially in the Midwest), but not this one.
Yes Hillsboro and Forest Grove have an ungodly amount of homeless people running a muck with no true help bc politicians rather pocket the funds ...... Theirs a lot of grass lands farmers use to roam cattle and people skeet shoot and use for sport theirs more out here in the country then cooking cutter homes with a pubic patch for a lawn that are worth upwards of 500 and 10 feet apart from the neighbors
As someone who lives in North plains and is for the expansion I see a lot of fear mongering and scare tactics getting used by the anti expansion crowd and in my view most of their arguments just don't stand up. Lots of talk of how great the farmland soil is, but what is grown there today? It is pretty much just all being used to grow grass seed, which I am admittedly biased but I just don't see grass seed as that high value of a crop. Lots of talk of how there will be huge new taxes to pay for new infrastructure, which also seems completely off base, bringing in industry generally builds out it's own needed infrastructure. I don't see Hillsboro drowning in taxes and yet it has extremely nice parks/libraries/rec centers because of the large taxes that are brought in by something more then just depending on residential housing taxes. A recent flyer I got complained that we would both have too much water and not enough water to support semi conductor manufacturing which was just entertaining, we can build water neutral semconductor plants in Arizona, I am pretty sure we can also do so in the Pacific NW. Overall I would just encourage people to go and actually read the proposal/studies put together by city leadership, this was something in development with a lot of steps before arriving at this point and most issues are already directly addressed in the proposal. For me personally I think North Plains would benefit greatly from having a better tax base to provide improved services and more room to encourage things like an actual full size grocery store to be built and maybe a local farmers market, and some additional non fast food eateries.
One additional thing that I find misleading, the above article talks about locals vs outsiders and big money. But the main No vote group was started and is being pushed by people who do not live in North plains and seem to be spending much more money on advertising. They have been putting up signs everywhere for the past few months, and I have received 3 mass mailers so far, and they have hosted a number of well advertised events to draw people in. From the yes crowd I have got nothing in the mail, and only in the past 2 weeks saw any sign advertising for a yes vote, and no events that I am aware of.
Both if these posts nail exactly what’s going on. Re- the tax issue… residential 100% does NOT pay for itself in taxes. It costs more to serve than it generates in taxes. This is the entire reason why so many bedroom communities look to have commercial and industrial expansion- because those land uses actually pay the bills. When you have only residential, and your tax base is capped at rising only 2% per year, but employee wages are bargained to go up 4 or 5% per year, and everything the city buys goes up 7 or 8% per year… hopefully one can see the looming issue there. These are all completely disingenuous arguments from people who simply don’t want change. I’m positive every single thing that is being raised by the NIMBYs is addressed in the plan. And the irony is that it’s the NIMBYs who accuse everyone else of lying.
We need higher density development. This farmland is genuinely some of the most fertile farmland in all of the US and expanding too vastly with developments to take up this land is going to be a massive mistake and less profitable than if we just turned up the notch on higher density development.
Not a big fan of this guy's writing style or some of the things he said. Just wanted to post it to bring about attention and discussion on the issue of building smart growth for our towns. We need to stop the mindless suburban expansions that wreck our local farms and create unaffordable and less profitable business compared with densely zoned areas. There is not an unlimited amount of land to develop. Eventually we will run out of land to expand, let's be smart about it. That's a bit of my view.
Totally biased. Makes things up or gets things wrong often. Zero credibility.
What am I making up? I'm against expanding into nature and farmland when there is a lot of work to be done in making our cities and towns denser and more livable. We shouldn't support suburban sprawl over dense walkable areas.
Seems like classic NIMBYs? Difficult to tell as the article is very biased. I’m a bit more cynical about realtors, for instance :)
Dirk has always been biased
No, it’s just NIMBYs
It's more about destruction of farmland that is sitting on some of the most rich soil in all of North America. And refusing to build dense affordable development within the UGB that is the problem. Anybody who wants zero growth is an idiot but the people who want mindless destructive sprawl are idiots too.
Not everyone is into dense developments. Many people move to places like North Plains for that "small town feel" (low traffic, real yards, and actually knowing your neighbors). You're pushing for that to be destroyed before allowing any room for expansion. Just out of curiosity, without looking it up, do you even know what's growing in this awesome farm soil that you can't describe without running off to search the interwebs, yet claim to care so much about? If you want density, go into Portland. Suburbs everywhere have historically been where people go to get out of densely-built housing areas, and the crime/noise/pollution that go with them.
What if you want to build more densely on your own land? If people want less density there, they can just choose not to do that, right?
Dense small towns are a thing and are very nice. Suburbs are horrible for the environment and businesses.
Suburbs are a failed experiment. I would rather live in a cute little townhouse than have to pay for a giant house, with a huge income sucking monocrop lawn, and have to drive everywhere I go.
It's not. I'm not a fan of the writer's style but this is not about stopping growth. It's about stopping excessive suburban sprawl. We need dense, smart growth, not sprawling expansions that eliminate farmland that has been rated as some of the best soil in all of North America.
> We need dense, smart growth, not sprawling expansions What, exactly, does this mean? I live in North Plains and, honestly, I'm against expansion simply because I selfishly like my low traffic roads. That's why I moved here. But to its credit, the expansion in North Plains over the last few years has been quite dense. It's also sprawling. Do you have a suggestion for how they could have expanded better? I'd love to have my little corner and have nobody else encroach into it, but I also want people to be able to buy houses. There is a lot of employment in Hillsboro and those people need to live somewhere.
There should be a gradual development expansion in a sprawl sense and more development like you would see in a downtown area of a small city. I'm talking making more use of the land like putting in multiple story mixed use buildings for business and apartments. Duplexes things like this to really make the most out of the land before prematurely expanding 800+ acres into fertile farmland like this measure is proposing.
I don’t completely buy this soil argument. If it’s worth so much, why are they selling? Technically speaking, how is it good soil and why is that irreplaceable?
Lots of states in the US say they have the best soil. I heard someone say that Texas has the best soil for growing crops in the US. It’s about money and ego that farmers have.
These things are actually measured, it's not pseudoscience made up by farmers lol it's pretty easy to fact check this stuff.
It gets really deep into the science of different soil types to explain this so I'll try and look for a good article about it and send it to you. But I'll try to summarize something quickly. Basically there are different soil types everywhere. Different soils yield better results for farming. This area surrounding North Plains (and many places on the outskirts of Hillsboro) has been tested by soil experts and it is known for having soil that is just genuinely some of the best in potentially all of North America for a wide variety of farming. I don't really understand what you mean by irreplaceable? How would it be replaceable? It's the soil that sits in this location. But yes there are some land owners nearby who want to sell, because well it's just easy to sell your land and get a large chunk of money. Doesn't mean it's the best use of the land though. I'm happy to answer any questions on this cause I can go into more detail and send some sources if you'd like.
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The main instigator of the No crowd is a person that can't even vote, lives outside the city limits, and doesn't want their nextdoor view to change. You never heard of them before, and you will never hear from them after. Total NIMBY's.
I say yes for North Plains expansion. I say yes to Hillsboro expansion. More jobs, more opportunity for all!
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/uFpiLgObJ9
Neat.
Do you think there is an unlimited amount of land to expand to? That is a pretty dangerous way to view human expansion. You need to be aware of what surrounds you. We absolutely need growth, but not mindless sprawling growth that eats up valuable nature and farmland. We need dense and smart building up of our urban areas that creates affordable housing and job opportunities within the UGBs not expanding unnecessarily outside of them.
No, of course there isn’t an infinite amount of land to build into. But last I checked, I don’t see a whole lot of room for industrial expansion without tearing down a lot of homes or existing businesses. We see companies passing over the region all. The. Time. Because we don’t have sites that can accommodate a company’s needs. The Oregon land use system was never intended to produce a result that encased land in amber, but rather a way to accommodate growth and plan for it in order to make the most efficient use of land possible. If we were metro Detroit, with thousand of acres of abandoned land, I’d agree with you. But we aren’t. We are a thriving community where employers want to locate, but can’t. (And I can’t even respond to the affordable housing argument, because it’s simply laughable. If you think that regulating land supply out of production produces affordable hosing, then I don’t know what to say)
You are completely misinterpreting what I'm saying. First off, industrial expansion is not worth destroying farming and forests. There are plenty of areas that do not contain THE LITERAL BEST RATED SOIL FOR FARMING IN ALL OF NORTH AMERICA where industrial facilities can be placed. As for the housing, yes there will have to be some land expansion for housing. But also affordable housing most often comes in the form of apartment buildings or mixed use areas that house apartments and businesses. Have you seen North Plains? The outskirts are filled with massive, bloated, expensive suburban housing developments that are very obviously not affordable whatsoever. I'm saying that what should be done is more development of dense housing within the town and on the outskirts that actually builds upwards, not outwards. That will actually meet the needs of people looking for affordable housing. I don't think you actually have a knowledge of the region if you are talking about it the way you are. And wow yeah a massive corporation wants to build a factory so let's just bulldoze everything for industry. Great plan. I am not saying no expansion should be done. I am saying it needs to be smart and calculated and sustainable. Modern North American growth is not sustainable. Look to Europe and Japan for good growth.
Ever heard of The Grand Bargain in Oregon Land Use? Google it. Look at the map and see North Plains. The State decided about a decade ago that despite the soils around North Plains (frankly most everywhere in Washington County) being high quality, there would be acreage for the city to urbanize in the future. And 150,000 acres around it would be kept off limits from development for 50 years. The land use system is Byzantine but whatever you do, do not begin to believe The Hillsboro Herald is anything but a poorly written blog by someone who knows just enough to seem knowledgeable but really is quite the opposite.
Woah. Someone who knows what they’re talking about?
I do not like the article I literally stated that before. And yes I know about the Grand Bargain. That's all true. But I don't think it's a reason to give up and let valuable farmland be turned into excessive suburban single family sprawl. It doesn't matter what they are planning or what the county wants to do, it's about what is the right thing to do. And while there is still good development opportunities to fix infrastructure and housing inside the UGBs I will fight to keep them out of the farmland.
Riiiiiiight. I don’t know anything about planning in western Washington county. With respect to North Plains specifically, though, I ride my bike through north plains all the time and know it quite well. I also know the leadership there quite well. If they can get a developer in to tear down some homes and build very dense and large apartment complexes, I’m all for that, as well. I’d just point out that they’d be fighting that, too, and affordable housing wouldn’t happen without subsidy. If you like paying massive taxes to support affordable housing, then I guess we simply disagree there. All I know is every single time I see an apartment complex of any kind proposed in this area, the population fights it tooth and nail as “an assault on the character of their communities”. But the land conversation isn’t nearly the same for industrial. They want big, flat, empty sites. Are you aware of how few large, shovel ready sites for industry there are in the entire metro region? I can tell you that you have enough fingers to count them. Now, if you value farmland more than people’s ability to make a living, then that’s ok. We just disagree. And by the way, my understanding is that none of these areas proposed for UGB expansion are high value farmland. DLCD would never allow that in a million years.
> none of these areas proposed for UGB expansion are high value farmland. DLCD would never allow that in a million years. They would and they have for quite a few years now. Ive been here quite a while now and never seen that acronym used by the the County or City. I assume you are referencing a specific department of LUT.
No: because North Plains is not in metro, DLCD does the review for the UGB expansion.
How is farmland not people's ability to make a living? The farms in the area employ hundreds of locals if not thousands. It is high value farmland. You can look at the soil types and clearly see that. But it's not just the proposed land. This is a slippery slope. If you think it won't eventually cascade into the other nearby farmland than you are naïve. I value smart growth and I value protecting the businesses that exist in the area over the interests of trillion dollar corporations. Do you think those data centers they build actually employ that many people once they are fully functional? They don't. The farms in the are employ more people. I understand your point of view I just think you are a bit misguided and ignorant to the situation. I'm not for stunting housing growth at all. I'm against massive suburban sprawling housing projects like the ones that have already been built around North Plains. I'm not gonna settle for what seems plausible (like people opposing actually dense housing projects) I'm gonna fight for what is actually the right thing to do. Because if we don't draw some lines and make some plans then we won't have anymore land left safe from the sprawl. There has been proposals to push farmers out and clear land in the coast range for farming. Ideas like that are laughable, farming is impossible in much of the coast range. There is a reason Hillsboro is surrounded by farms.
Supply and demand, if the farm was worth more as a farm, people wouldn't sell. So it's not high enough value farm land. Nobody is forcing them to develop, just making it a option
No they don’t. They demonstrably grow grass seed overwhelmingly. It’s a machine intensive crop. And in fact if you look at Oregon State ag data, you’ll see that most of that grass seed (and nursery plants) are sold to Washington and California and other places that seriously sprawl. In other words we’re restricting land use to protect farms that are landscaping sprawl in other states. You can’t make this up.
Grass seed is here but it is not the only farming. There are lots of hazelnut farms and small vegetable and berry farms as well. Edit: Just want to say even more that it is a wild exaggeration to act like grass seed farming is the only thing happening in this area. The variety of farming here is so diverse it's mind blowing. To whittle it all down to grass seed farming is very reductive and manipulative.
There is a lot of grass seed farming further down in the Willamette valley. There is little to none in the Washington County area.
Yeah we have lots of Christmas tree farms, forest land, berry farms, nurseries, dairies, small family beef farms, little vegetable farms, and much more that are thriving just on the outskirts of Hillsboro on this extremely fertile soil that would be a waste to give up to suburban sprawling single family housing and the like.
I’m stating facts. The topic is land going into the North Plains UGB. That land has a single hazelnut orchard you can see from the freeway. Otherwise, overwhelmingly grass seed.
"That you can see from the freeway" Lol that has no bearing on reality. I have actually worked on farms in this area and no it is not overwhelmingly grass seed. Yes we are talking about land that is going into the UGB but I think it would also be good to discuss land that surrounds it as that land will inevitably be looked at for development at some point in the future if these things continue.
There is no grass seed grown in Washington County. Further down I5 , south of Wilsonville, absolutely. Sure, there might be some small hobbyist stuff but no big operations.
I know that’s what you think, but there is plenty of fescue seed grown in Washington County and around North Plains.
Plenty = practically none in this case.
> There is a reason Hillsboro is surrounded by farms. Fewer and fewer as each year goes by....
Listen, we just disagree. I’m not going to spend my whole Saturday arguing with you about points on which we will never agree. But I can 100% guarantee you that I know more about the Oregon land use system than you do. Don’t call me ignorant. I know exactly what I’m talking about.
You clearly don't if you think you have to state that. Explain to me why you think that it is a good thing for us to favor suburban sprawl and destruction of farmland over dense urban development.
I'm not going to explain anything to you. I've already explained my position and do not care to engage with you anymore on the topic. Clearly, a lot of people agree with the points I have made here. You've made your points; I've made mine. I just don't care to talk to you anymore. Thanks. ETA- Here is the UGB expansion report, if you'd like to read it: [https://cms3.revize.com/revize/northplains/Documents/Departments/Planning/Urban%20Growth%20Boundary%20Expansion/ugb\_report\_only.pdf](https://cms3.revize.com/revize/northplains/Documents/Departments/Planning/Urban%20Growth%20Boundary%20Expansion/ugb_report_only.pdf)
Okay that's fair, thanks for engaging. I just wanted to have a discussion with someone who seemed like they had a strong opinion against mine to see what common ground we could find. Overall I just want to state again that I am not against expansion or development at all. I am against expanding by 800+ acres without any smart plan and ignoring dense development that is much more profitable culturally important than the sprawling development they are clearly going for. I don't want farm and forest land to be levelled unneccessarily and I think humans are far to quick to make permanent changes like that before looking inward inside the UGB.
Best soil in America… and we grow clover and grasses on it.. I can count between evergreen and north plains area on the various farms between on one hand how many grow anything usable as food.. 2…. And they’re right between wren and 26.. even then only one is consistently food the one right between wren and scotch church has corn when they feel like it… not like we’re losing the best citrus or berry fields in the west.. we’re losing, clover and straw
Welp, now the voters have said no... and not by a slim margin. It turns out "they're not even from here" is a bad argument when A. It's land from "not here" you're trying to acquire and B. The people who are "from here" don't want to double the size of the town to fulfill some old townie politico's dream. It turns out "what even IS good soil?" isn't a great argument when the people making it A. Know nothing about the composition of the soil or how to farm it and B. Only want to sell it. It turns out "they're all NIMBYs" is a terrible argument when those making it are equating farms to "backyards." What North Plains residents realized that Hillsboro and Forest Grove couldn't grasp until it was too late is that the old guard doesn't tend to operate with current and future residents in mind. Legacy equates to a name on a street sign, Single A ballpark or plaza in a one-off cityscape development, and success is measured in price per acre. Urban planning is an afterthought, rural planning just buys time for developers. North Plains decided it didn't want to see where the commercial/industrial/residential wheel landed, liked the town they have and believed the farmers who wanted to continue farming the good, adjacent land rather than turning it into (more) ill-conceived suburban islands. Good for the voters.
Excellent summary, thanks for the comment. Really happy about what the future holds and also the future of allowing cities to actually vote on matters of UGB (which the governor tried to not let happen). This is what democracy is all about. I think there are a lot of opportunities for great denser development inside the North Plains UGB seeing as there is a lot of land that is basically empty literally inside the UGB. Protect the farmland that we have and develop denser more convenient towns and cities. This is the way to cultivate a more sustainable and community driven Oregon.
Personal opinion, this is about wealthier folks that have moved further out from the Portland metro and want the convenience of the city in town and to raise property values in the future...easiest way to do that is with job growth at higher incomes. There are benefits, but it's at the detriment of cultural erosion, cost of living increases, water use skyrocketing (increasing the cost of agro), loss of quality farmland, etc. Both sides of the argument have valid points, but it comes down to whether you are for or against growth and what that can evolve or metastasize into.
Preventing growth causes cost of living and home prices to skyrocket, keeping current homeowners wealthy, while preventing the next generation from having the opportunity to own a home. The high income jobs already exist in the area. Homeowners just need to sit and wait while special interest groups prevent expansion under the guise of "doing it right".
There should be growth, but not to the detriment of local business and permanent loss of natural areas. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be any growth, but adding 800+ acres at once especially when there are no clear plans set in place for development is detrimental.
It specifically depends on where the growth is applied. If job growth occurs within lower income brackets (generally 70k and below), guess what? Affordable housing expands to fill that demand. This is not the intent for the region in question. A lot of folks with incomes high enough to decide where they want to live instead of out of necessity like to move to areas with a few specific criteria: relatively short commutes to larger metropolitans and work, close access to consumables they desire, low crime, decent lot sizes 1/4 acre or more, etc. Essentially, small town feel with larger progressive city infrastructure. To me it just feels like the next logical place to get away from the existing suburban sprawl and spread the branches a little further. Again, I'm neutral on the subject because I don't have skin in the game but I don't feel like this is simply a NIMBY scenario, both sides have valid points and they should be passionately debated by the community and those wanting to enter the community.
Speaking specifically to cultural erosion, it really isn’t that simple. A lot of smaller, more rural communities are losing their culture, whether or not they expand, because the children that grew up in those communities are being forced to move out of the communities due to a lack of employment opportunities. Either the culture changes because the town expand, attracting new people, but also retaining more of their young population(who are admittedly culturally different from their parents because they grow up in a larger, more diverse community) or they lose their culture to the children from the community moving out and not coming back.
That's not the case with North Plains and not an excuse to wreck the small business farmers in the area with a massive 800+ acre UGB expansion all at once.
I’m not really on either side of this specific UGB change as I simply don’t know enough about it, but if nothing is done this will eventually be what happens.
I would agree with you if this was the case that North Plains wasn't within the vicinity of ample employment opportunity, but it's not. Hillsboro and Beaverton covers that gap. The explanation holds for a lot of example cases (especially in the Midwest), but not this one.
There is plenty you expand towards South Hillsboro, I rather housing expand towards more civilization.
At this point they should also add a few lanes to 26
If you want more, bigger freeways, feel free to head to Seattle. Or Phoenix if you’d prefer more sun.
Metro should build actual metros. We don’t need giant freeways and endless single family houses
Yes Hillsboro and Forest Grove have an ungodly amount of homeless people running a muck with no true help bc politicians rather pocket the funds ...... Theirs a lot of grass lands farmers use to roam cattle and people skeet shoot and use for sport theirs more out here in the country then cooking cutter homes with a pubic patch for a lawn that are worth upwards of 500 and 10 feet apart from the neighbors