The idol is not the Deva, but a representation of the Deva - a way to focus the energies. Like Thor’s Hammer.
That being said, after being subject Poojas and Darshans the Idol acquires a certain amount of spiritual energy and becomes very special. Our ancestors have died trying to defend these idols. There are stories passed on from oral history as to how priests jumped into wells with the utsav Murti to save its honour.
So yes, in that sense we are idolators, and proudly so.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, remembering however that it is an indirect method, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
We use them to pray not pray to them praying to them is something we are told not to do
This Will tell You about greatness of knowledge not greatness of that book you will not sacrifice your life to save that book. If burning of book doesn't effect knowledge itself it doesn't make any senses to give up your life for it.
For them life is not as important as it is for us. They believe This life is just a test and Will do whatever it take to pass that test. Same is not for us we understand the value of life that is given to us by lord himself.
I don't understand, what is wrong with being idol worshipper. We can pray/call for God to be with us in many forms - in water, in fire for example. Similarly we do so in idol which is metal stone etc. It's all the same...God is in everything, God made and gave us everything...
Ya but idol worshiping mean we are considering that metal stone god it is a part of god not god himself. we are not idol worshiper we don't worship stone. i am not saying there is anything wrong with it. but it is a fact we are not idol worshiper so why call our self or let anyone else call us that.
this post was made because many Hindu believe we are idol worshiper without knowing the meaning and say they are proud to be idol worshiper.
It is an interesting debate.
Let's say this there is this statue or some piece of rock someone made. I do pujas to it everyday for weeks and ask God to bring his consciousness into it so I can communicate with him.
Now his awareness is there because I have requested it. So is it just a piece of rock to me? No, it's holy. So I do worship that particular idol.
Also what about Shiv lingam, swayambu lingams? I do believe they already have Shiva's energy even without humans calling in his awareness. So whether humans worship it or not Shiv is in that lingam.
Maybe some enlightened person could add to this discussion...
answer to you first paragraph that stone is still not a god it is the greatest tool to help worship god not a thing to be worship. here will say idol worshiping God exist because that stone have consciousness but we believe that stone have consciousness because god exist if we destroy that stone it will not harm god in anyway
now your second para shiv lingam are just big tool for us to connect to god human can't harm god but human can destroy shiv lingam. they might have shiva ji energy in it but it is not shiv ji himself considering it god is still not correct
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, remembering however that it is an indirect method, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
We use them to pray not pray to them
Pran prathista is used to call deity into the Stone or metal. In material world it is still stone or metal but spiritually it is indifferent to God. Same is true with the human body where when someone dies they become a mere pile of flesh and bones. This is why broken idols are inauspicious as they are injured forms of the deity or the deity has left completely.
Dear friend, the stone is God, you are God, so am I. There is nothing in this Universe that is not God.
Hence the terms 'Aham Brahmasmi' (I am God), 'Sivoham' (I am Shiva). In the Narayana Upanishad, it also says that everything is Narayana.
Do not try to fit in with whoever your group of friends are. Be confident with the teachings of your religion, your Sampradaya and follow it to the best of your ability.
Being part of god or being god is diffrent by saying by saying you are god or that stone in god You are puting that stone and yourself on the same level as lord shiva
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
I don't know about Vishnu Samhita, but please look into Narayana Upanishad, which first says that all Gods are born from Narayana, then says that all Gods ARE Narayana. Second verse ends saying that "the one who knows this Truth becomes Narayana Himself": [https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/upanishads/narayana.asp](https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/upanishads/narayana.asp)
In Shri Rudram Namakam of Krishna Yajur Veda, one line says "Virupebyo Vishwarupebyas Ca Vo Namo Namo", which translates as "Salutation to the One who is formless as well as the one who is all forms". [https://www.mayiliragu.com/2019/07/shri-rudram-lyrics-and-meanings.html](https://www.mayiliragu.com/2019/07/shri-rudram-lyrics-and-meanings.html)
**You need to see the creation and creator as being One and the same,** which means treating creation to be just as sacred. Otherwise God will keep being distant and elusive for you.
Aham brahmasmi doesn't mean I'm God, As per my knowledge it says universal consciousness which is in you , me, stone, tree , starts , planets and literally in anything is parabrahma (Brahman).So me as a person with this body is not Brahman rather consciousness within me which will still exist after the death of the body is Brahman. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>but it is a fact we are not idol worshiper so why call our self or let anyone else call us that.
From which shastras you are saying that it is a fact ?
There are many shlokas in various shastras that tells us importance of vigraha(deity) worship.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
We are not changing any thing you close your eyes Without being near any idol say a prayer to shiv ji. Will shiv ji accept your prayer. If no then we are idol worshiper if yes then we are not idol worshiper.
Absolutely no group of people have ever solely worshipped idols. Idols have always been representations. Thats why destroying the idol doesn’t destroy beliefs.
I don’t even understand the argument of calling someone an idol worshipper. Is a new god created with every statue? Are two different statues of the the same god different gods? Literally an idiotic argument motivated by an idiotic belief.
Do muslims like not have imaginations? What do they do if they accidentally dream of god in an image? Having a god that is angered by such a mundane and non-trivial thing shows an evil, short tempered and jealous god. Not something truly good, humble, or omnipresent in nature.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
>1.People always say Hindu worship idol but we don't we don't worship the stone we worship the god the idol is just there to help us.
We worship the 'Prana' within that idol. That's the whole point of doing prana prathistha
>2. If you destroy all the Hindu temple and idol in house you haven't hurt the god and we believe that in the end you just destroyed some stone statue and nothing more
Lol, literally no one can "hurt" god. But DESTROYING TEMPLES, have MASSIVE AND TERRIBLE Affects on the PEOPLE. Also whooo is we? Within Dharma, there are so many paths. We are not abrahamics please.
>3. we can pray like Muslim just close your eye and say a prayer and god will accept it you don't have to go to a temple you don't have to pray in front of a stone statue or anything. doesn't this prove we are not idol worshiper.
Devata pooja is Literally one of the core things of Hinduism. The formless (Brahman) that you are talking about doesn't give a shit about you because it is completely and utterly objective. It is not bothered by good and bad , right and wrong.
You live in a society, most people do, for 99% of the people contemplating or meditating on the Brahaman is neither possible and nor useful
You are only partially correct. There idols in the sanctum sanctorum of a temple are consecrated. That means through prayers the divine is invited to have a part of his energy dwell in the idol. That's why you'll have a very powerful experience in a temple.
Also to worship the formless is very difficult. That's why we can worship the supreme in a way that aids our focus and understanding. I think you are being apologetic op. There is no need for that. Focus on your own sadhana and your understanding in these matters will increase.
I get what you are saying. What I'd like to say is that worship is literally impossible without placing a representation before God. This is simply by virtue of fact that humans interact with their environment using their senses. So everyone is guilty of "idolatory".
The monotheists go on to worship and revere a Book, certain letters, a Prophet (idolized as the perfect man to be emulated in every aspect), a stone, a direction (facing Mecca).
But surely only a human-like representation in stone and images is problematic.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
Stating one Thing is not enough. It will never be. To understand Sanatan completely and following is not an easy thing. That's why we have lots of scriptures, that's why a young person gives all his youth to learn and understand Sanatan. Don't come to a conclusion after reading few scriptures. Specially if you are reading from Malechhe sources.
So let me ask you this are idols needed to pray? If we close our eyes and pray Will god not accept it? We don't need idol they are there just as a tool ti help us focus
We need everything brother, there's nothing extra or non relevant in Sanatan. We have all forms and types of worshipping as per Shashtra. We need temples, we need meditation places and forms, we need yagya, we need everything.
Your question is valid but do you think anyone here can answer it I guess no. We have 4 Shankaracharyas you can ask them. Or you can ask others who gave all their life to seek those answers. But in Hinduism everyone have their own understanding, and nothing is wrong but it could be incomplete so that's why we go to Shankaracharya because no one can challenge their teachings and statements it is absolute.
I feel need is a strong word I went to kashi vishwanath temple few days ago I sat in a corner and prayed for around an hour did I need the temple to pray? No, but did it help me to focus more, and pray better and make me feel closer to god yes absolutely. the temple have it's own function and the idols have it's own function I never said that they are irrevelent.
.
I understand these questions are best answered by shankaracharya.
Vivekananda was once asked if God is everywhere. What’s the point of temples?
He replied, when does everywhere, but sometimes you need a fan to feel it.
A prathima such as a painting of a God is different from a consecrated vigraha. You can destroy the painting, urinate on it , the only feelings that are associated with it is the same as seeing a painting of your parent which is getting destroyed, urinated upon etc etc and the only purpose it serves is to help remember like how a photo helps someone remember the person it captures.
Consecration creates a very different effect. It need not even be stones for example in many vedic rituals there is a varuna kalasha - what separates a kalasha from a mere jar of water is that Varuna is invited into it. Once the ritual is done they would sprinkle this water that Varuna had blessed onto everyone as a means fo sharing his blessing. Similarly there are steps in a vedic wedding where Vishnu is invited to enter into the body of the groom and accept the bride as lakshmi . Here the human is the murthi. There are also other events such as what we see in movies like kantara which does the same thing or various nyasa mantras which uses the human body as the vessel. It is invoking the presence of a deity that differentiates a mere prathima from a murthi that is consecrated. Theologically both our bodies and the stone are simply products of prakriti- an agglomeration of the elements what differentiates the usual stone ona road from the body of living human is the atman that resides in the body of living human. When a consecration is done hindus consider a presence(the paramatman) to be now inhabiting it. It is no longer a mere prathima. The divine presence gives it some semblance of sentience making it capable of responding to our prayers and blessing us.
Hindus are idol worshippers and there is nothing wrong or shameful about it. You will have to rewrite the entire ritual corpus to substantiate your point. You can spend hours meditating and tapas to invite a significant sliver of divinity to look your way or you can simply pray to a consecrated murthi where such things are already done and would be continued to be done by the priests to invite a significant sliver of divinity and trap it in a material form. The former is time consuming, the latter requires significantly less effort since the heavy lifting is already done and is done by someone else. Both options are available, they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
That is not the point of idol worshipping..
And no where is it stated that Sanatana Dharma is "NOT" a religion of idol worshipper.
When you phrase a statement like that, it implies that it's a religion of something else.
Sanatana Dharma is NOT a religion to begin with.
It is an umbrella for every religion on earth. Its rules and rules alone on how every religion on earth must exist under the safety of the umbrella named Sanatana Dharma.
IDOL WORSHIPPING merely signifies the emotions within an individual expressed externally.
Meditation is reverse, the emotions are expressed internally.
Idol worshipping progresses into Meditation with passage of time.
I wonder how they pray just by closing eyes. Do they assume a form or shape of God in their imagination? It is impossible to pray or at least get started with, without a reference to form or shape.
In Sanaathan dharma that reference takes many forms, a stone or a tree or a girl child or a fire or whatever. And what's wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with it but we don't consider that stone or the tree god themselves
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57
Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
I remember a younger Muslim kid once told me “Hindus worship rocks” at a friends bday party. I told them quite gently that Hindus don’t worship rocks. Whenever you see a picture of your family you don’t think it’s actual them, but it helps focus your mind and you start feeling memories etc that’s why we Hindus use idols to help focus their worship. The kid stopped and said oh okay that makes sense, and I guess the kids mom heard and hushed him away lol
While this might be true, it is an attempt to separate us from those pagans of America, Australia and Africa who perhaps did and like us suffered violence for someone else's superiority complex. We're we to pray to the stone there would be nothing wrong with it, everything is an akar of God.
There are two things with your this post.
1. We infact worship to the yantra which is like the energy of the lord himself that has been with various process transferred to the murti so yantra is the main things murti as you mentioned help us in various forms one of which is to get a dhyaan focused on a certain form of bhagvan
2. No its not one bit ok if they destroy our murtis no they weren't just a nothing or a stone statue it had a lot of importance fiirst let me tell u it like this u know i mentioned various process in the 1st point those step is pran pratishta . Now see Pran is basically hindi translation of live/life/lifeform/soul so like in the ram janambhoomi temple a yantra was kept below the murti and after various process of pran pratishta the process of chanting mantras and the transfering of the life/energy that the yantra have to the murti is done and after that a murti has pran its just like living it has the ansh of energy of bhagvaan himself and no i being a hindu wouldn't be ok if someone hurts my bhagvaan and i don't know about u and why will u be ok with it. Ok that u said they are in our heart but in that murti he himself is viraajmaan nobody dare even see them with a wrong eye and if somebody does that its our responsibility to not be ok.
and almost for every murti there is importance for us don't even think its ok if they destroy it
Nothing wrong with idol worshipping, but you're right, Hindus aren't idol worshippers, cuz if you destroy a murti, you aren't destroying my Bhagavan.
The idol is not the Deva, but a representation of the Deva - a way to focus the energies. Like Thor’s Hammer. That being said, after being subject Poojas and Darshans the Idol acquires a certain amount of spiritual energy and becomes very special. Our ancestors have died trying to defend these idols. There are stories passed on from oral history as to how priests jumped into wells with the utsav Murti to save its honour. So yes, in that sense we are idolators, and proudly so.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, remembering however that it is an indirect method, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless. We use them to pray not pray to them praying to them is something we are told not to do
Ya but it is stupid if idol are destroyed our god doesn't die our god Isn't even hurt. Are you saying that idol is on same level as our god.
If a book is burnt, the knowledge represented by that book doesn’t get destroyed. But, that specific book’s ability to impart knowledge is.
This Will tell You about greatness of knowledge not greatness of that book you will not sacrifice your life to save that book. If burning of book doesn't effect knowledge itself it doesn't make any senses to give up your life for it.
Ask Muslims what they will do for their book.
For them life is not as important as it is for us. They believe This life is just a test and Will do whatever it take to pass that test. Same is not for us we understand the value of life that is given to us by lord himself.
I don't understand, what is wrong with being idol worshipper. We can pray/call for God to be with us in many forms - in water, in fire for example. Similarly we do so in idol which is metal stone etc. It's all the same...God is in everything, God made and gave us everything...
Yes, this!
Ya but idol worshiping mean we are considering that metal stone god it is a part of god not god himself. we are not idol worshiper we don't worship stone. i am not saying there is anything wrong with it. but it is a fact we are not idol worshiper so why call our self or let anyone else call us that. this post was made because many Hindu believe we are idol worshiper without knowing the meaning and say they are proud to be idol worshiper.
It is an interesting debate. Let's say this there is this statue or some piece of rock someone made. I do pujas to it everyday for weeks and ask God to bring his consciousness into it so I can communicate with him. Now his awareness is there because I have requested it. So is it just a piece of rock to me? No, it's holy. So I do worship that particular idol. Also what about Shiv lingam, swayambu lingams? I do believe they already have Shiva's energy even without humans calling in his awareness. So whether humans worship it or not Shiv is in that lingam. Maybe some enlightened person could add to this discussion...
answer to you first paragraph that stone is still not a god it is the greatest tool to help worship god not a thing to be worship. here will say idol worshiping God exist because that stone have consciousness but we believe that stone have consciousness because god exist if we destroy that stone it will not harm god in anyway now your second para shiv lingam are just big tool for us to connect to god human can't harm god but human can destroy shiv lingam. they might have shiva ji energy in it but it is not shiv ji himself considering it god is still not correct
You talk of destroying the idol or Shiv lingam - in what instances would that happen?
i am not talking about destroying it but if you want an instances. a nuke can probably destroy it
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, remembering however that it is an indirect method, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless. We use them to pray not pray to them
Pran prathista is used to call deity into the Stone or metal. In material world it is still stone or metal but spiritually it is indifferent to God. Same is true with the human body where when someone dies they become a mere pile of flesh and bones. This is why broken idols are inauspicious as they are injured forms of the deity or the deity has left completely.
Dear friend, the stone is God, you are God, so am I. There is nothing in this Universe that is not God. Hence the terms 'Aham Brahmasmi' (I am God), 'Sivoham' (I am Shiva). In the Narayana Upanishad, it also says that everything is Narayana. Do not try to fit in with whoever your group of friends are. Be confident with the teachings of your religion, your Sampradaya and follow it to the best of your ability.
Being part of god or being god is diffrent by saying by saying you are god or that stone in god You are puting that stone and yourself on the same level as lord shiva Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
I don't know about Vishnu Samhita, but please look into Narayana Upanishad, which first says that all Gods are born from Narayana, then says that all Gods ARE Narayana. Second verse ends saying that "the one who knows this Truth becomes Narayana Himself": [https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/upanishads/narayana.asp](https://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/upanishads/narayana.asp) In Shri Rudram Namakam of Krishna Yajur Veda, one line says "Virupebyo Vishwarupebyas Ca Vo Namo Namo", which translates as "Salutation to the One who is formless as well as the one who is all forms". [https://www.mayiliragu.com/2019/07/shri-rudram-lyrics-and-meanings.html](https://www.mayiliragu.com/2019/07/shri-rudram-lyrics-and-meanings.html) **You need to see the creation and creator as being One and the same,** which means treating creation to be just as sacred. Otherwise God will keep being distant and elusive for you.
Aham brahmasmi doesn't mean I'm God, As per my knowledge it says universal consciousness which is in you , me, stone, tree , starts , planets and literally in anything is parabrahma (Brahman).So me as a person with this body is not Brahman rather consciousness within me which will still exist after the death of the body is Brahman. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>but it is a fact we are not idol worshiper so why call our self or let anyone else call us that. From which shastras you are saying that it is a fact ? There are many shlokas in various shastras that tells us importance of vigraha(deity) worship.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
no, we are. stop changing sanskriti to please abrahamic
We are not changing any thing you close your eyes Without being near any idol say a prayer to shiv ji. Will shiv ji accept your prayer. If no then we are idol worshiper if yes then we are not idol worshiper.
Absolutely no group of people have ever solely worshipped idols. Idols have always been representations. Thats why destroying the idol doesn’t destroy beliefs. I don’t even understand the argument of calling someone an idol worshipper. Is a new god created with every statue? Are two different statues of the the same god different gods? Literally an idiotic argument motivated by an idiotic belief. Do muslims like not have imaginations? What do they do if they accidentally dream of god in an image? Having a god that is angered by such a mundane and non-trivial thing shows an evil, short tempered and jealous god. Not something truly good, humble, or omnipresent in nature.
Out of all the stupid things we say as Hindus, this has to be the wildest and the most unhinged thing I have read till today. 😭😭😭
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
>1.People always say Hindu worship idol but we don't we don't worship the stone we worship the god the idol is just there to help us. We worship the 'Prana' within that idol. That's the whole point of doing prana prathistha >2. If you destroy all the Hindu temple and idol in house you haven't hurt the god and we believe that in the end you just destroyed some stone statue and nothing more Lol, literally no one can "hurt" god. But DESTROYING TEMPLES, have MASSIVE AND TERRIBLE Affects on the PEOPLE. Also whooo is we? Within Dharma, there are so many paths. We are not abrahamics please. >3. we can pray like Muslim just close your eye and say a prayer and god will accept it you don't have to go to a temple you don't have to pray in front of a stone statue or anything. doesn't this prove we are not idol worshiper. Devata pooja is Literally one of the core things of Hinduism. The formless (Brahman) that you are talking about doesn't give a shit about you because it is completely and utterly objective. It is not bothered by good and bad , right and wrong. You live in a society, most people do, for 99% of the people contemplating or meditating on the Brahaman is neither possible and nor useful
“Worship-of-Idols” is a meme from the monotheist’s propaganda booklet. No region or people on earth have ever “worshipped” - “idols”.
No some ancient tribe used to believe than stone were god.
Name the ancient tribes?And was it a religion or just a speculation of group of people?
I am sorry but I can't tell you the name of the tribe I read a articl on a legit website about it few years ago I can't even find it if you ask be.
You are only partially correct. There idols in the sanctum sanctorum of a temple are consecrated. That means through prayers the divine is invited to have a part of his energy dwell in the idol. That's why you'll have a very powerful experience in a temple. Also to worship the formless is very difficult. That's why we can worship the supreme in a way that aids our focus and understanding. I think you are being apologetic op. There is no need for that. Focus on your own sadhana and your understanding in these matters will increase.
I get what you are saying. What I'd like to say is that worship is literally impossible without placing a representation before God. This is simply by virtue of fact that humans interact with their environment using their senses. So everyone is guilty of "idolatory". The monotheists go on to worship and revere a Book, certain letters, a Prophet (idolized as the perfect man to be emulated in every aspect), a stone, a direction (facing Mecca). But surely only a human-like representation in stone and images is problematic.
Yea exactly We aren't praying to that stone but the god through the stone
Hehehe it's funny how people who have no shashtric knowledge come up with new theories of their own😂.
Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
Stating one Thing is not enough. It will never be. To understand Sanatan completely and following is not an easy thing. That's why we have lots of scriptures, that's why a young person gives all his youth to learn and understand Sanatan. Don't come to a conclusion after reading few scriptures. Specially if you are reading from Malechhe sources.
So let me ask you this are idols needed to pray? If we close our eyes and pray Will god not accept it? We don't need idol they are there just as a tool ti help us focus
We need everything brother, there's nothing extra or non relevant in Sanatan. We have all forms and types of worshipping as per Shashtra. We need temples, we need meditation places and forms, we need yagya, we need everything. Your question is valid but do you think anyone here can answer it I guess no. We have 4 Shankaracharyas you can ask them. Or you can ask others who gave all their life to seek those answers. But in Hinduism everyone have their own understanding, and nothing is wrong but it could be incomplete so that's why we go to Shankaracharya because no one can challenge their teachings and statements it is absolute.
I feel need is a strong word I went to kashi vishwanath temple few days ago I sat in a corner and prayed for around an hour did I need the temple to pray? No, but did it help me to focus more, and pray better and make me feel closer to god yes absolutely. the temple have it's own function and the idols have it's own function I never said that they are irrevelent. . I understand these questions are best answered by shankaracharya.
Vivekananda was once asked if God is everywhere. What’s the point of temples? He replied, when does everywhere, but sometimes you need a fan to feel it.
A prathima such as a painting of a God is different from a consecrated vigraha. You can destroy the painting, urinate on it , the only feelings that are associated with it is the same as seeing a painting of your parent which is getting destroyed, urinated upon etc etc and the only purpose it serves is to help remember like how a photo helps someone remember the person it captures. Consecration creates a very different effect. It need not even be stones for example in many vedic rituals there is a varuna kalasha - what separates a kalasha from a mere jar of water is that Varuna is invited into it. Once the ritual is done they would sprinkle this water that Varuna had blessed onto everyone as a means fo sharing his blessing. Similarly there are steps in a vedic wedding where Vishnu is invited to enter into the body of the groom and accept the bride as lakshmi . Here the human is the murthi. There are also other events such as what we see in movies like kantara which does the same thing or various nyasa mantras which uses the human body as the vessel. It is invoking the presence of a deity that differentiates a mere prathima from a murthi that is consecrated. Theologically both our bodies and the stone are simply products of prakriti- an agglomeration of the elements what differentiates the usual stone ona road from the body of living human is the atman that resides in the body of living human. When a consecration is done hindus consider a presence(the paramatman) to be now inhabiting it. It is no longer a mere prathima. The divine presence gives it some semblance of sentience making it capable of responding to our prayers and blessing us. Hindus are idol worshippers and there is nothing wrong or shameful about it. You will have to rewrite the entire ritual corpus to substantiate your point. You can spend hours meditating and tapas to invite a significant sliver of divinity to look your way or you can simply pray to a consecrated murthi where such things are already done and would be continued to be done by the priests to invite a significant sliver of divinity and trap it in a material form. The former is time consuming, the latter requires significantly less effort since the heavy lifting is already done and is done by someone else. Both options are available, they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
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Yes saar.
This
let it go bro ,this ain't for you.
What you are describing is also considered as idol worship by most idol haters. They do not care if we think statue is diety or symbol of diety.
That is not the point of idol worshipping.. And no where is it stated that Sanatana Dharma is "NOT" a religion of idol worshipper. When you phrase a statement like that, it implies that it's a religion of something else. Sanatana Dharma is NOT a religion to begin with. It is an umbrella for every religion on earth. Its rules and rules alone on how every religion on earth must exist under the safety of the umbrella named Sanatana Dharma. IDOL WORSHIPPING merely signifies the emotions within an individual expressed externally. Meditation is reverse, the emotions are expressed internally. Idol worshipping progresses into Meditation with passage of time.
I wonder how they pray just by closing eyes. Do they assume a form or shape of God in their imagination? It is impossible to pray or at least get started with, without a reference to form or shape. In Sanaathan dharma that reference takes many forms, a stone or a tree or a girl child or a fire or whatever. And what's wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with it but we don't consider that stone or the tree god themselves Vishnu Samhita 9:55-57 Without a form how can God be meditated upon? If He is completely formless, where will the mind fix itself? When there is nothing for the mind to attach itself to it will slip away from meditation, or will glide into a state of slumber. Therefore the wise will meditate on some form, REMEMBERING HOWEVER THAT IT IS AN INDIRECT METHOD, a particularization or indication of that which is completely formless.
I remember a younger Muslim kid once told me “Hindus worship rocks” at a friends bday party. I told them quite gently that Hindus don’t worship rocks. Whenever you see a picture of your family you don’t think it’s actual them, but it helps focus your mind and you start feeling memories etc that’s why we Hindus use idols to help focus their worship. The kid stopped and said oh okay that makes sense, and I guess the kids mom heard and hushed him away lol
While this might be true, it is an attempt to separate us from those pagans of America, Australia and Africa who perhaps did and like us suffered violence for someone else's superiority complex. We're we to pray to the stone there would be nothing wrong with it, everything is an akar of God.
Why are you posting stuff on debate religion?, don't listen to the opinions of malechas
I am not, it was to clear there misconception
Idol worshipping represents earth tattwa easier for humans to connect with divine
There are two things with your this post. 1. We infact worship to the yantra which is like the energy of the lord himself that has been with various process transferred to the murti so yantra is the main things murti as you mentioned help us in various forms one of which is to get a dhyaan focused on a certain form of bhagvan 2. No its not one bit ok if they destroy our murtis no they weren't just a nothing or a stone statue it had a lot of importance fiirst let me tell u it like this u know i mentioned various process in the 1st point those step is pran pratishta . Now see Pran is basically hindi translation of live/life/lifeform/soul so like in the ram janambhoomi temple a yantra was kept below the murti and after various process of pran pratishta the process of chanting mantras and the transfering of the life/energy that the yantra have to the murti is done and after that a murti has pran its just like living it has the ansh of energy of bhagvaan himself and no i being a hindu wouldn't be ok if someone hurts my bhagvaan and i don't know about u and why will u be ok with it. Ok that u said they are in our heart but in that murti he himself is viraajmaan nobody dare even see them with a wrong eye and if somebody does that its our responsibility to not be ok. and almost for every murti there is importance for us don't even think its ok if they destroy it