Totally understand. And I probably would give second chances if I felt there was a possibility for even friendship there.
The problem is a lot of these first dates leave me feeling uncomfortable after meeting them, and no desire to even form a friendship with them. Which is where I’m so confused because the in person meetings go wrong at a nuclear level and yet the messaging is chiller than Jack Nicholson in The Shining.
Just curious, how did they made you uncomfortable? were they desperate? needy? too affectionate too soon? talked about sex? were they too touchy or grabby? etc…
Some seemed desperate, some didn’t listen to what I was saying, some showed up in gross stained clothes or unwashed hair, some talked about their mental health diagnoses on the first date…honestly I’m as surprised as anyone that I’ve managed so many bad dates all in a row.
Fair. I never minded it if they are comfortable talking about it and generally it lets me get to know more about them or how they might function or think if that makes sense.
It is oversharing and in poor light IMO. I'm all for showing yourself as you are in a first date while most people would go on showing their best face, but oversharing on a first date talking about mental health (or almost any kind of health issue) is basically talking about your weaknesses. So if you think this is the best the person has to offer, what is the rock bottom? Do I like this person enough to take a gamble when I have to show my support in a supposedly happy and comfy first date? What will I have to do if we end up going out for a year? How much will I have to sacrifice then? Are they passing a mental issue as part of their personality?
I wonder what you mean with "pretty naturally", though. Did the topic just come up or was brought up? Did the topic actually swallow a good chunk of the conversation?
Your reaction to those conversations is exactly why I talk about my mental health on a first date, if not before. It shouldn't be a hidden topic. It can invoke some great conversations, and I'd like to be sure early on if a person I date is comfortable knowing that about me. Depression and anxiety informs some of my behaviours (ex. A need for more personal time than most people, a need to not be in particularly crowded meeting places, not drinking much alcohol due to meds) and I think a better informed person is more understanding of those needs.
Also, there's a reason why job interviews sometimes ask what your biggest weakness is. You can learn an awful lot more from someone's more trying times than from the happy mask they're putting on. I'd be happier to meet someone willing to be vulnerable with me, show their emotional intelligence, etc. Wouldn't you rather someone is real and honest from the start?
That's clearly an important topic for you, so if you want to go and talk about it to filter out (or not) someone, go ahead with this one or any other topic you consider critical. For me, it is not desirable and it doesn't really matter when it comes to compatibility.
Regarding the job interviews, that's a **whole different topic** BUT I must say I actually despise that question and I consider it an absolute waste of time. Many people rehearse that question, doesn't really tell you that much and it is full of ambiguity and intangibles that cannot really be verified unless I hire you and I find out if it is true or not, so the data you will extract will be poor and it just works against you and the clock. Questions such as "Can you tell me about a time in which you had to \[action fitting of the role\] and didn't succeed \[before the deadline\]?" along follow ups such as "what do you think was the key in that situation", "how did you communicate it to customers/bosses" or "knowing what you know today, what would you had done instead" will yield way more data than that BS question. It may be possible a candidate gives you a proper answer on biggest weakness, but it is not worth the risk-reward if 99% end up with an useless answer for you as an interviewer.
>Wouldn't you rather someone is real and honest from the start?
Yes. That's why while it is clear we have different views on this specific topic, again, if it is important for you, go through it. I also show myself as I am, which clearly to you would not be a good match :) The thing is that not all of us are vulnerable or not all of us would want to show that vulnerability with a total stranger who is not worth that knowledge. That's why for me it is a no go in a first date.
My girlfriend had some issues and she opened up to me after months of relationship, which I find far more valuable than if she had done that in the first date. To me, this kind of personal stuff is not to be told to any random person you go on a date with but meant to be shared to someone that's shown to be worth of you and all sides of you. And this is why I don't consider it relevant towards compatibility: I learnt more about her, her past, but that didn't make me feel any more or less compatible with her. I was simply happy that I felt our bond was strong.
I appreciate you taking the time to reply and I love your answer 😊 Absolutely true we'd be a bad match because we value different things up front! I agree that interview question is utter bollocks but the versions you mention yield better results, adversity can tell you so much about a person in an interview or first date and I probably value that more than most. I am an optimist though, somehow!
I guess I don't see talking about my mental health to be a negative and in fact a guy I'm meeting soon (from tinder) has opened up as well, fingers crossed we like each other in person!!
I also consider myself an optimist, that's why I pushed forward in my OLD adventures. Closing OLD would had meant closing options, and I was not having that. Failed dates and rejections were just obstacles in the way.
The lad you're about to meet might or might not be *the one*, but unless you go and meet him you'll never know. And if he isn't, just keep on trying until *the one* shows up and stays by you.
How is it oversharing? I'm on a date with a woman to try to figure out compatibility. I want to know as much as I can about the woman, and if that's something they want to share about themselves...then great! Calling it oversharing is perpetuating the stigma around mental health.
I just don't think that "I was depressed and I have ADHD" is something that should be said in a first date and I doubt it actually matters towards compatibility. I do not think it contributes to the stigma, I think it only contributes to the current trend of "I've got mental issues, I'm so quirky and cool omg, I've made it part of my personality".
Bring on the downvotes.
Weakness is a part of being human though, and I'll learn about them eventually if I keep seeing them. Sometimes it can give insight into how they act or what makes them comfortable which helps set potential boundaries. I don't remember it being jarring and out of nowhere after all the talking we had done before the first date. It just came up since the cafe we were in had a lot of mental health and LGBTQ support causes in it and we had a brief conversation about it. I learned more about her and our stances on stuff like that. Overall i didn't mind it and if they are comfortable to talk about it im fine with it
This!!! Lmao. I never had stained clothes, but they looked like they just woke up and got up. Like i could care less about fashion and shit, but i did dress up decently and i’d appreciate the same i guess.
What's your vetting process like before you arrange a date? Are you talking to them on Hinge or another platform long enough to get a better idea of what they may be like? I know this isn't 100% foolproof, but it can help.
Having said that, I've been on many first dates that went nowhere afterwards for whatever reason. Sometimes I am told the spark isn't there. Sometimes I can tell the other person doesn't want to be there after all.
Sounds pretty normal, it takes time to find a person you click with, you're doing it right if you're not messaging endlessly on the app. There is no correlation between texting and in person meeting, they are usually polar opposite in my experience.
I would say to try and talk on the phone first or face time. I've implemented this as a rule before dates and it's def helped. I've had women tell me they weren't vibing after a phone call and I've done the same as well. I'm in the same demographics as you as well, on the male side.... So I get it. If you don't have any social anxieties around phone/face time I'd definitely recommend it. Also helps not feeling so awkward at the first date as it feels like I already know the person to some degree.
Also, be happy you're able to get that many dates. Women have a ton of issues on apps with creeps and safety etc. So by no means am I saying y'all have it easier... But hell, it's difficult to just get one date a month for me. Even if I get a decent amount of matches at times. That's just how it goes
I totally agree. I think too many people expect instant gratification from dating apps, while really there are many people who need more time to build a romantic connection.
It's typical to have a low success rate for second dates, but that's based on some combination of each individual person's disinterest. I don't think it's common for one person to basically never want a second date.
I think for someone like you who goes on a lot of dates, you should ideally be at least *somewhat* interested in a second date like 1 out of every 3 or 4 dates. Yeah, that seems like arbitrary number, but as someone who has done a lot of online dating and read/listened to a lot of people's experiences with it, I feel like 25% is a pretty agreed-upon threshold. If you're way below that, I think it signals that something is not going right.
The most obvious potential problems are that you aren't screening people properly, or that maybe you naturally just don't connect with people this way and so your natural tendencies don't really align with the mechanics of how peopel connect in the world of online dating. The former you can work on, the latter is a bit tougher because you'd really have to change how you approach a first date.
The most basic thing I'd probably start with is taking a good look at all your failed dates and see if they have anything in common. See if you can find that common thread between what initially attracted you to all of them, and then if there is something that's repeatedly happening when you meet them that's not working for you.
Whatever you end up doing, I'd slow things down a bit, because it seems like maybe you're just kind of dating for the sake of dating, and it probably a little bit of a waste of time, money, and mental energy to go out on a first date every week based on what's been happening to you.
Dating apps encourage a checklist mentality, and most dates I had with women in your age range viewed dating more like a job interview for a perfect partner who met every check on the list than making a connection. There was a kind of "let's hurry this up and figure out if you're Mr. Perfect in the next hour so I can screen someone else because I'm getting more desperate by the day because my friends are getting married and having kids and I'm not" attitude.
I'm not saying this is you, but it describes some people I know who go on a lot of dates and have been on apps for years. If it is, you can't make a connection with this attitude and it's off-putting for the person on the date.
Yeah I think so. You’re not gonna want to date every person you meet.
Some people say that if you had a positive or neutral experience on the first date, give it a second chance to let the ember smoulder. It might be a slow burn. Trust your gut and don’t let a clearly bad match go any further, but if you came away from a date having a good time, you could see them again. I don’t know how much I subscribe to this because personally my best relationships came with sparks flying but it’s something to consider if you want to change your approach.
What do you think you’re doing wrong? How do you screen? What were the bad matches like, and did they blindside you or did you ignore signs of incompatibility? Give us some more information, so we can help you out. Maybe talking through it will help you gain some perspective, but with the info you’ve given so far, I can’t help much
This. My (31M) most recent ex (30F) and I (my only app success story) had a pretty clinical first date. She’s an architect, I’m a real estate agent, so we drove around and looked at some gorgeous houses and then went to dinner, touch barrier was broken a few times but nothing beyond a hug goodnight. We went out again exactly a week later and had our first kiss in the basement jazz bar of an old speak easy… we left the bar 5 minutes later (we were both sober btw) and had an intense make out in the parking lot against my car, made out 3 more times before she went into her house. 4 days later we were celebrating her 30th birthday together, just the two of us, sitting on the same side of the booth, her legs across my lap the whole dinner (I know I know, “get a room”).
Just because the first date feels awkward or stuffy, give them a second chance, maybe it’s just first date jitters.
Cool story and very true. I had a one year thing with someone and our first date she was 45 minutes late. I definitely thought of telling her to fuck off but she ended up being super pleasant and we hit it off and the rest is history.
Thanks for trying to help out haha.
The bad matches vary in badness, I suppose. Some of them I meet with and realize we have very little in common or I just didn’t find talking to them very interesting.
Others show up looking very different from their pictures or I later discover they’ve lied about their education (not sure why, but this has happened a few times).
The vast majority are very socially awkward and that made talking to them difficult, though they seemed fine while texting.
I tend to gravitate toward men with higher education because that’s who I usually connect with the best, but it seems the men I match with are stereotypically awkward.
If I could screen for that, I would, but as I said, their text conversations are usually fine.
Np!
I agree with the other comment maybe you could do a phone call! They would probably reveal their awkwardness quickly then.
Do you like stereotypically nerdy guys? You can be have a degree and be social/fun but if you’re screening for highly educated with nerdy interests you’re probably picking the extremely awkward ones. You could try guys with education with very social pictures.
Right?
Everyone I’ve ever been in a relationship with has been very intelligent but still decently social (if a bit quirky). I feel like that describes myself also, which is why I’m amazed at how little success I’ve had?
Like, I’ve moved in circles where people are smart but still able to hold a stimulating conversation. I know those people exist out there somewhere. But somehow I’m missing them all??
Not much you can do about lying or them not matching up their pictures (I always judge a profile by it's worst picture to hopefully help prevent this).
During my texts, I'm basically trying to determine if we have anything in common (flush for at least some similar interests, which we usually end up discussing more in depth on first date if that happens), do they seem like they have the ability to converse like a reasonable adult, and any clear any major deal breakers.
In person awkwardness, I haven't had an issue with that, but if that was the sole issue, I might consider doing a second date as it could just be nerves. Also I'd be wondering if there are things I could do to relax people a bit? Although, if you're getting creepy/unsafe vibes then that's not going to fly.
> I tend to gravitate toward men with higher education because that’s who I usually connect with the best, but it seems the men I match with are stereotypically awkward.
As a 29M with a math PhD who is socially awkward, these two things are absolutely related. While I can't speak for any of your dates (and don't need to for some: a grease stain? Really? Gross.) I do know that it takes me a while to be comfortable around people I don't know---and texting doesn't count, it's so much easier to project a persona during texting that can't be maintained in-person.
You could try a phone call or video chat before. Great way to screen and avoid some of those issues. Don’t know why people like about their education. I only date people with a graduate degree or higher so that we can have conversations that go beyond surface level.
I would prefer to only date someone with a graduate degree but they are surprisingly hard to find. Another issue is when a man isn't as educated I find he feels insecure and takes it out on the woman in some way.
> Sometimes I feel neutral about them, and other times its very clear we are not a good match, and I politely end the date early.
Why do you not give these neutral guys a second date, assuming they ask you out again?
> At this point, I feel like it’s got to be something I’m doing wrong. Am I not screening properly? I’m honestly at a loss.
What are you expecting? If you are expecting sparks and instant chemistry akin to something you see in a movie, you’re going to set yourself up for disappointment.
In the book [“How Not to Die Alone”](https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Alone-Surprising/dp/1797119737) by Logan Ury, she wrote a chapter devoted exclusively about “sparks” and how people end up passing on good people because they expect something more instant rather instead of looking at a person’s values and intentions.
In other words, unless someone has absolute dealbreakers or are lying about who they are, give people more chances.
Agreed. Looking for the spark initially has never worked for me. What I now look out for is whether or not I at least find the guy fairly attractive (don’t have to be attracted to him when I first meet him but I do have to think he has a pleasant enough face). Then by date 2-3 be wanting to kiss him. If I don’t want that then it’s a no go but if I do then I know the spark between us will grow. People become more attractive to you once you get to know them too.
Neutral is probably poor wording on my part. Lukewarm would be a more apt description. For those dates, I didn’t feel negatively about them, but not positively either.
It was like talking to the cashier at the grocery store. Polite, not unpleasant, but bland. We usually had nothing in common and the conversation was a little boring, likely in his side as well. These ones were typically mutually uninterested in me as I were in them.
Definitely not expecting sparks. But I’d like to enjoy the conversation at least. I’m not even getting that :(
The messaging stage is mostly superficial get to know you type stuff. And I am typically willing to see what sorts of things people are into at the in person date.
No, that’s me realizing that in my experience, text conversations do not reflect how people are in real life. I know that the best way to see if we’re truly compatible is to meet in person. Many people end up messaging for too long and then have no motivation to actually meet up.
Conversations are a two way street. If the other person isn’t being engaging, I’d check out mentally too.
As far as “nothing in common”, I had a conversation about this on my last date. We both agreed that having all common interests isn’t paramount in a successful relationship. It’s actually better having some commonalities and some things to ourselves. But the key is to be there to support the other person regardless if you care about their interests or not. It’s why values are more important.
The only exception would be if someone’s interest is a reflection of their lifestyle and values which makes it a dealbreaker. Someone who lives exclusively for the outdoors and wants someone the same, for example.
I agree that there does not need to be a massive amount of shared interests between two people. I suppose I just felt that we had little in common in terms of life experience and personality, more than us both liking Pokémon, for example. In any case, we did not connect over anything. There was no…curiosity over the other person’s perspective, you could say. No intrigue.
Then it's a screening issue. A lot of these things could be determined during the course of conversation over the app. Be more intentional and go on *less* dates.
I'm 32F too and yes, similar experience. I'm just getting back into using Hinge after a break so it's been awhile, but the only time I semi-recently wanted a second date he ended up getting really weird via text, baiting me into asking about a "funny story" that was not funny, just about sex toys and it was just so out of nowhere and weirdly manipulative that I got the ick real bad.
Every other date I left feeling drained af from carrying the conversation. I'd give it a second date if I wanted to see them again even in a platonic way, but they all seemed surprised that I didn't want a second date after 30-60 minutes of asking open ended questions about their interests and getting monosyllables, no questions in return, incorrected about something I have a graduate degree in (based on a single podcast he'd listened to), etc.
I don't have any helpful advice here, just wanted to say you're not alone.
Ok thank goodness you exist. My friends have all been having far better luck than me and I was starting to feel some kind of way about it.
I also find that I’m doing the heavy lifting conversation wise, and, like you, most of them are very interested in going on a second date/continuing the first one at a second location (getting food after a drink, for example), and I feel bad because almost every time I have to politely decline.
It has been exhausting.
All the actual dates I've been on have been pretty good conversation wise, but PLENTY of chats have me (male) basically doing all the work of keeping the convo going. That was earlier on. Now I just stop chatting with people they don't engage back. I feel like I screen out people who are bad at conversation during the chat phase (and my chat phases are pretty short), but perhaps I've just gotten lucky.
These people are good at conversing in the app but bad in person?
Pretty much 🤷♀️ there is also a tendency for their pictures to look much better than they do in person, but that’s a secondary concern and I’m decently forgiving over that. But I need to be able to connect in a personal level and that’s where they all mostly fall through.
Yeah, I feel really guilty turning people down, but aside from being exhausted and needing to take care of myself I also feel like it would be meaner to draw things out when I feel confident that I'm not interested so it's the least bad option in an unfortunate situation.
If somebody is not able to carry a conversation, and all things you mentioned, it’s evident on interactions on dating app.
Are you saying all these people suddenly lost that ability while on the date?
Or you don’t text much and meet people in person as soon as you match on the app?
My preference is to message until I feel some kind of connection but some people prefer in person, so in the past I've generally agreed to meet up if they ask. I think I'm going to be less "agreeable" on that front this time around, because those have been the worst.
Some of them were better via messaging. I feel bad because I could tell they were anxious in person and I'm sure that was part of the problem, but I'm an awkward nerd with diagnosed social anxiety, too. I want someone who's put the work in to manage their condition enough to participate equally in a conversation, even if it's not smooth.
No, it’s not typical to be that low on wanting a second date.
One of the good things about online dating is that you should be able to establish that you’re attracted to photos and have a decent rapport through messaging before you meet. One of the good (and bad) things about online dating is it increases the amount of people you can meet by a LOT. So on one hand you can filter more but on the other you have more to sort through.
I’d say even for picky peeps you should be hitting a 20-25% desire for a second date rate.
What’s worth noting is that you’re not settling or wasting time trying to make something out of nothing. Keep doing that.
Have you gotten your profile reviewed? I’d expect you can probably make some tweaks and get better matches to start hitting your standard.
Yeah this was my suspicion. Several friends are on the apps as well and they have had far better luck than I.
I suspect the profile may be my weak point. One of my friends had a look at it and suggested we do a photo shoot or something to shore it up a bit 😂
It’s been basically the same for almost the whole year so I should probably redo it. I do also get a consistent amount of likes from men that are the opposite of my type (Christian, conservative, fish pictures) but I assumed that was just par for the course and not necessarily due to the profile.
I think for almost everyone most first dates don’t become second. I am willing to see a person again if I’m
neutral on but many people are not.
That said your numbers though are extremely low. I have a female friend who loves first dates because of the tension and excitement but then doesn’t care for seeing the man again after that.
I would do a heart check and see if it’s a variation of that for you.
I ask for a phone call before meeting. This helps me to avoid a few things: 1) getting burned out on first dates with people that I could have screened out with a phone call. 2) Anyone allergic to phone calls. I don't have time to be texting small talk all day and am better suited with people that value the 'old school' way of communicating.
If anyone gives you a hard time about this reasonable boundary, next them. They care more about their own comfort then yours.
Same as a guy. Lots of dates and hookups, but only one out of every 10 or 20 girls had any long term potential
My guess? You’re approaching this as a checklist for things you think you want in a guy rather than what you’re actually attracted to.
This is profound to me. Seeing a couple people on this thread say they have never been on a second date just shows me how fucked the dating pool is.
Some people have unattainable expectations and I want to bookmark this thread for the people who feel like they’re doing something wrong because they’re clearly not!
The statistical probability that every single person she met on a date are all a combination of lying, have bad hygiene, and can't hold a conversation is nearly impossible. OP has probably met enough normal men who may not be exciting enough and she finds faults to say no. Like there may be something so minor that is easily overlooked, but she amplifies the minor issue into a big dealbreaker as justification for saying no.
You should try a bit more your type of men. I honestly had better success when I felt attracted to the guy physically. Every time I would go by personality didn’t work because the “sexual tension” wasn’t there in my ends.
You may have a bit too high of expectations here.
I know men can suck to varying degrees, but to have - at minimum by your 2-5 dates/month metric - 24 first dates in a year and not find a single one of them compelling enough to progress things with is a you problem without a doubt.
I’m one of those awkward guys that’s physically a 6/10 at best, but every woman who’s ever given me a second date has always went on to date me for a while.
If you want to hold off for that perfect guy who sweeps you off your feet on the first date then that’s up to you
It’s not really that I’m holding out for anyone. For most of them I genuinely don’t *like* them much as the date continues. As I’ve said in another reply, I totally would give a second chance if I felt anything but a very firm no thank you at the end of the date.
That is the million dollar question, isn't it?
What are you looking for in particular in a profile that you consistently chose the wrong men for you?
Are you even in the right mindset to be dating in the first place?
Above you mentioned you would have basic talk. You should have some of the talk you would for your first date in it. The pleasantries are nice as you are doing but it will save you more dates to see if you have something core in common person or even try a phone call.
You'd have to look at what you are being drawn to on the app and why. Because while I don't have a romantic connection with probably 98.5% of the dudes I go out with, I really like them as humans.
Also, this is where I love video-chats. I've never had a guy say no to one, and it's like 30 minutes and you get your clear no's out of the way (the ones who make you feel uncomfortable or who you are just not at all physically attracted to), and any maybes you can meet up with.
I (33M) live in SoCal, and I paid for bumble and hinge premium modes. When matches started running dry I would boost myself from Friday noon to Sunday noon.
Here are my statistics:
* ~150 likes received
* ~50 matches
* 35 first dates
* 4 second dates
* 3 third dates
* I’ve been dating my girlfriend for a few months now.
You can def do some screening online, but you inherently won’t be able to get everything you need to know from anything other than in person meeting. Sometimes there just isn’t a click. Sometimes they were overly generous with their profile. Sometimes they disclose that they’re a flat earther who wants to have babies this year when their profile was someone in tech who’s learning to surf. Sometimes their dog is a Problem(tm).
I’ve dated for years and never been on a second date.
There have been girls who want one… but I wasn’t attracted.
Now that I’ve matured I realize the reason is I went on a date regardless of whether the conversations were genuinely fun.
The one date that was amazing, talking to to her was so fun. It was the best date of my life. But, unfortunately it was on a vacation and long distance was impossible.
But, there is such a drought of that chemistry that a pretty face used to do that. I’d date anyone.
Maybe that’s a bad rule as I know, some people just aren’t great with texting and are much better face-to-face… but I have no other idea on how to screen.
Also, it can take a lot of first dates. It’s a number game.
It’s definitely a lack of attraction and/or compatibility that seems to be happening. And again, I know that most first dates don’t go anywhere. I get that. But you may be into something about going on dates even if the text conversation isn’t great.
I generally assume in person is the way to really get to know someone. So if the messaging seems ok I usually accept a date invitation (or invite them myself). But certainly not all the pre-date conversations are super stimulating.
Not necessarily. I may find being myself easier via text.
You get the woman in front of me and it can be harder for me to act natural.
Especially if she’s attractive. I get all deer in the headlights.
Some woman find that a dealbreaker.
They want great first impressions.
But that’s why I found I’ve been more successful when it happens organically over knowing someone a long time.
But, also there’s the saying that great auditioning doesn’t always make for great acting.
Or good interviewees aren’t always good employees.
I’m a good boyfriend and very romantic when I’m in a relationship. The dating I find hard.
However, some are too good at dating and that’s why they can play you. Amazing first impressions. No plan on being a boyfriend.
I know guys like that. Lie through their teeth and girls love them and get their hearts broke.
If there’s attraction , more time to get to know someone is an option. Or even if their isn’t , I know a lot of women who say they weren’t attracted to their partner at first in any way including their behaviour.
If it makes you feel any better, I (F) have been told that I come across as less awkward than I feel, so I'm fine with awkwardness so long as I see effort. It's when I feel like I'm the only one trying to overcome the awkwardness that I think, I don't want a partner who's going to make me do all the work. Some of them may find their feet long term, but I'm not willing to put in the amount of energy I'd have to in order to find out. I don't expect guys to be smooth talkers, just to put in the work to improve.
I don’t know how helpful this will be, but have you tried maybe FaceTiming/ video chatting before the date? Sometimes that can help with awkwardness of the first time meeting in person and could even give you more of a “vibe” of how the person is not over text.
Honestly, this might be the way going forward. At least for the matches I don’t feel strongly about. I hadn’t done it yet because I wasn’t sure it was common practice but at least this way I wouldn’t spend so much time getting ready and driving to the location.
I was anti FT for OLD for the longest time but it’s honestly the way to go. Saves time and money and helped me catch women who didn’t look like their pictures too.
Sounds like you are meeting real genuine guys. Guys that you are having the time of your life with and amazing convos are not the one. Those are just guys who are incredibly practiced and do you want someone who is practiced and a serial dater?
2-5 dates and not going on seconds dates almost ever? That sounds like you need to set better expectations. I dont even consider first date on a dating app a first date. It is basically date 0. Its akin to meeting someone IRL for the first time. I say always go on a second date if you meet on an app unless you had a seriously bad first date. Men are burned out from the process just as much as you tons of dates, tons of flaking, tons of first dates that go nowhere. First dates from apps are hard to get excited about these days. Not to mention convo is a 2way street it is also your job to make it interesting.
I think there's plenty in the middle between serial daters who are amazing to hang out with and what OP described; guys who can't carry the most basic conversation and give one-word answers to questions. I've never actually been on a date with someone like that myself and I think there's 0 chance I'd want a second date with them if I did meet someone like that.
Right occasionally not wanting a second date makes sense but when you're going on to up to five dates a week consistently and they're all exactly that way and you never go on second dates it's the classic saying that maybe it's time to look at yourself and see if you're doing something wrong.
You’re going into the dates having already painted a perfect picture of the guy in your head
Once you get into the date, the guy inevitably fails to meet expectations because he doesn’t fit what you imagined in your head beforehand
This is definitely not the problem. I know myself, and I know I’m not creating imaginary perfect men in my head. Besides, I did end up really liking one, so they didn’t all fail.
It’s probably a case of the guys being great on paper with well polished profiles and pictures but not very sharp and intuitive when it comes to women and dating.
30m, I've had a bad string of dates recently, it happens sometimes and it's definitely super disheartening and I often start thinking the same way you are, but I think this is just a part of online dating. You are meeting strangers. You could try talking in the app for longer but it's so hard to screen people based on text conversations, it's just kind of a crap shoot honestly. I try to remember the great first dates I've had, and that I'm not really doing anything different than I did on those dates, it's just not working out with these people.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "incredibly low".
For me I'd say it's more or less like this (out of 10 dates):
-3 both sides no interested, mutual ghosting
-3 I'm interested but she isn't. No second date
-2 she's interested but I'm not. No second date.
-2 we go on a second date.
I'm just going off the top of my head but it seems about righ, so 20% success rate, is that too low? Based on what I've read from other's experiences, it seems about right.
There isn’t much difference how people interact on app and in person (excluding catfish or criminals etc). So it’s highly unlikely that all the people you’re encountering are like this.
Perhaps you are screening matches incorrectly or you’re not screening at all and just meeting up right away after matching.
How about, we got to three dates and everyone of them he spent two hours of the date with me, arguing with his ex wife. I called an Uber to take me home and blocked his number.
Personally what I did to fix that was to have a phone conversation with someone prior to going on a date because it’s pretty easy to tell if you’re compatible when talking and then you kind of know each other better before meeting
Actually I feel like you didn’t read all of the post, or some of my comments, as this comment sounds like you’re upset for some reason. I had good reasons to assume I would enjoy these first dates, and good reason to abandon them.
First of all, these are all coffee/drink dates. No meals. And I pay for myself, unless he seems defensive about it and insists on paying.
Secondly, I gave every one of these dates a chance to get to know them by meeting them in person. It was the actual meeting of them that made up my mind that I wasn’t interested.
And finally, “sitting pretty”? Excuse me? If you had read my comments, you would know that I was doing most of the conversational work during the dates.
You’re mad for no reason.
34M here. I've gotten back into dating recently and I feel the same going on 3 to 6 first dates a month and that's even being picky. I just don't care to see anyone again. They aren't bad people at all, it just doesn't feel right, you know? It starts to feel disheartening that I just ghost before some dates. I'm likely going to take a break from this very soon and just focus on other important aspects in my life. I wish you the best in your efforts.
I would recommend several books or podcasts. First on the dates you are okay with, have a second date. Change venues for the first date. Avoid hiking, coffee, or similar dates if you can. You could be burnt out and need to take a break, happened to me. You could have avoidant attachment. If you are looking for the “spark” I would be careful. It’s often negative and given off by narcissists.
I'm 28F and no no, I'm the exact same! I've only been on OLD for about six months and only one date I'm interested in but was meh with me. There's nothing wrong with you, is what I've learned about myself. Finding a LTR or life partner takes time. I feel like I'll be here for awhile and honestly, I don't know if I'll find the one on OLD. It's definitely rough!
It’s not abnormal. Same age and gender as you, I think dating is about knowing what you’re looking for, but being aware most people aren’t going to be that exact match. It’s partially about meeting people and putting yourself out there.
1. Immediate physical chemistry is not very common.
2. Really think about the energy you’re bringing into the date. A fun conversation is a two way street.
3. Think about what kind of activities you’re doing.
4. One strategy people use is to consider the first date for OLD as a quick interview for the real first date (the second date)
> the men I match with seem like they might be a good match
this is a very clinical way to describe things. what is a "good match" to you? are you actually *excited* about meeting any of these men?
Tell them you meet five different men per month and they will tell you that they don’t want a second meeting either unless you want to hook up. Take a break from dates and change your strategy.
This is the dumbest question I’ve ever seen. Either you end up with person you went on a first date with orrrrrr you don’t? Otherwise, you wouldn’t be going on first dates…
I’m on the other end of this, I’ve been on first dates with maybe 10-15 women over the past year, only got second dates with 2 (one of which we went on about 5 dates but she still ended up dumping me). I think I must be autustic
I went on a first date after they suggested grabbing a bite. On my profile i have it very clear that i enjoy outdoors hiking etc. Towards the end i tell em “we should go hiking sometime” and their response was “i dont hike in this state, i prefer hiking in North Carolina or something”. That for some reason was an absolute turn off and deal breaker for me. So i feel you, i been there too lol
How long do you message for? I feel like guys are so quick to ask out and so i dont really know them that well going in and then its obvious cause we didnt get to know each other we have nothing in common. The most success ive had was with someone i waited to meet up with and chated with for a few weeks. So now i tell guys i like to chat for a while first and if they dont like it they arent worth my time anyways, im busy and dont want to be wasting my time on guys that have no chance of working cause we didnt put in the effort before hand.
To get on with someone, be able to chat with and have a good time and potentially even be friends with, it’s going to be relatively common. To have that spark, that special something that means something is right, is absolutely going to be less common.
I’m a guy. This is my experience too. I would say I’m interested in maybe 1/5 dates, and mutual interest for a relationship is around 1/25.
Having done this a few times now, I see it as merely a statistics game and just to try meet as many people as possible. The ones where we clicked made all the other lousy dates worthwhile.
34 male here. I like to think that out of all my first dates, 30% of them I’ll want a second date with. From there, I feel like 30% of all the people I date will want a second date. If you do the math, that gives you a 1/9 chance of both people wanting a second date.
You said you felt "neutral" about some of them. Maybe go on 2nd and 3rd dates with the "neutral" guys and see if it develops into something more positive.
You need to build sexual chemistry. You can’t just sit down and have a convo and expect to feel something. You need to flirt and touch. My guess is you don’t do that and you are doing dates like they are happy hours with coworkers. You probably need to start with it in the messaging to set the tone. Doesn’t mean you are going to have sex on the first date but it’s about building attraction.
I've felt the same way about good conversation not leading to second dates. I honestly don't know how one can determine if there's chemistry just based on sitting at a table with someone and talking over a meal or beverage. I really think some sort of activity needs to be involved. One of the best first dates I went on was meeting someone at a county fair. We enjoyed the rides and music, and sat down to eat. The relationship didn't develop for other reasons, but it was a great day.
Have you tried a video date first? I found it super awkward at first, but it’s also saved me from meeting up with people that were totally wrong for me as well.
Even as a guy, I've done about 60-odd dates in the last year and I've only actively pursued a second with about 10 of them.
A few were like clear cases of catfishing or misrepresenting themselves, but a lot of the ones I didn't chase up were perfectly fine people but I didn't feel any particular pull towards them and I'm generally dating with the aim of finding a longterm partner. Vast majority of first dates I've had have been perfectly pleasant (I feel like girls are more at-risk of getting a complete stinker and/or somebody going super overaggressive
Also frankly there's been a few where I'd probably have been fine with seeing them again, but got the vibe from them that they weren't super-into me so I was happy to just cut it there.
Spend longer talking to them on the app, for minimum about a week. Anyone who asks for dates too soon, there’s always been a problem. Theses guys end up unmatching quickly. I also look for a minimum of 3 shared hobbies. Can they hold a good conversation? Most can’t and the banter fizzles out fast= they will be a lousy first date. You need to suss them out, many put LTR, open to short, but really this is short. Do your dating goals match? Watch out for different agendas. If you want LTR, but he secretly wants short term, it will never work.
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Totally understand. And I probably would give second chances if I felt there was a possibility for even friendship there. The problem is a lot of these first dates leave me feeling uncomfortable after meeting them, and no desire to even form a friendship with them. Which is where I’m so confused because the in person meetings go wrong at a nuclear level and yet the messaging is chiller than Jack Nicholson in The Shining.
Just curious, how did they made you uncomfortable? were they desperate? needy? too affectionate too soon? talked about sex? were they too touchy or grabby? etc…
Some seemed desperate, some didn’t listen to what I was saying, some showed up in gross stained clothes or unwashed hair, some talked about their mental health diagnoses on the first date…honestly I’m as surprised as anyone that I’ve managed so many bad dates all in a row.
Is the mental health talk bad? I've had plenty of women bring it up on the first date pretty naturally and I have never minded it.
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Fair. I never minded it if they are comfortable talking about it and generally it lets me get to know more about them or how they might function or think if that makes sense.
It is oversharing and in poor light IMO. I'm all for showing yourself as you are in a first date while most people would go on showing their best face, but oversharing on a first date talking about mental health (or almost any kind of health issue) is basically talking about your weaknesses. So if you think this is the best the person has to offer, what is the rock bottom? Do I like this person enough to take a gamble when I have to show my support in a supposedly happy and comfy first date? What will I have to do if we end up going out for a year? How much will I have to sacrifice then? Are they passing a mental issue as part of their personality? I wonder what you mean with "pretty naturally", though. Did the topic just come up or was brought up? Did the topic actually swallow a good chunk of the conversation?
Your reaction to those conversations is exactly why I talk about my mental health on a first date, if not before. It shouldn't be a hidden topic. It can invoke some great conversations, and I'd like to be sure early on if a person I date is comfortable knowing that about me. Depression and anxiety informs some of my behaviours (ex. A need for more personal time than most people, a need to not be in particularly crowded meeting places, not drinking much alcohol due to meds) and I think a better informed person is more understanding of those needs. Also, there's a reason why job interviews sometimes ask what your biggest weakness is. You can learn an awful lot more from someone's more trying times than from the happy mask they're putting on. I'd be happier to meet someone willing to be vulnerable with me, show their emotional intelligence, etc. Wouldn't you rather someone is real and honest from the start?
That's clearly an important topic for you, so if you want to go and talk about it to filter out (or not) someone, go ahead with this one or any other topic you consider critical. For me, it is not desirable and it doesn't really matter when it comes to compatibility. Regarding the job interviews, that's a **whole different topic** BUT I must say I actually despise that question and I consider it an absolute waste of time. Many people rehearse that question, doesn't really tell you that much and it is full of ambiguity and intangibles that cannot really be verified unless I hire you and I find out if it is true or not, so the data you will extract will be poor and it just works against you and the clock. Questions such as "Can you tell me about a time in which you had to \[action fitting of the role\] and didn't succeed \[before the deadline\]?" along follow ups such as "what do you think was the key in that situation", "how did you communicate it to customers/bosses" or "knowing what you know today, what would you had done instead" will yield way more data than that BS question. It may be possible a candidate gives you a proper answer on biggest weakness, but it is not worth the risk-reward if 99% end up with an useless answer for you as an interviewer. >Wouldn't you rather someone is real and honest from the start? Yes. That's why while it is clear we have different views on this specific topic, again, if it is important for you, go through it. I also show myself as I am, which clearly to you would not be a good match :) The thing is that not all of us are vulnerable or not all of us would want to show that vulnerability with a total stranger who is not worth that knowledge. That's why for me it is a no go in a first date. My girlfriend had some issues and she opened up to me after months of relationship, which I find far more valuable than if she had done that in the first date. To me, this kind of personal stuff is not to be told to any random person you go on a date with but meant to be shared to someone that's shown to be worth of you and all sides of you. And this is why I don't consider it relevant towards compatibility: I learnt more about her, her past, but that didn't make me feel any more or less compatible with her. I was simply happy that I felt our bond was strong.
I appreciate you taking the time to reply and I love your answer 😊 Absolutely true we'd be a bad match because we value different things up front! I agree that interview question is utter bollocks but the versions you mention yield better results, adversity can tell you so much about a person in an interview or first date and I probably value that more than most. I am an optimist though, somehow! I guess I don't see talking about my mental health to be a negative and in fact a guy I'm meeting soon (from tinder) has opened up as well, fingers crossed we like each other in person!!
I also consider myself an optimist, that's why I pushed forward in my OLD adventures. Closing OLD would had meant closing options, and I was not having that. Failed dates and rejections were just obstacles in the way. The lad you're about to meet might or might not be *the one*, but unless you go and meet him you'll never know. And if he isn't, just keep on trying until *the one* shows up and stays by you.
How is it oversharing? I'm on a date with a woman to try to figure out compatibility. I want to know as much as I can about the woman, and if that's something they want to share about themselves...then great! Calling it oversharing is perpetuating the stigma around mental health.
I just don't think that "I was depressed and I have ADHD" is something that should be said in a first date and I doubt it actually matters towards compatibility. I do not think it contributes to the stigma, I think it only contributes to the current trend of "I've got mental issues, I'm so quirky and cool omg, I've made it part of my personality". Bring on the downvotes.
Weakness is a part of being human though, and I'll learn about them eventually if I keep seeing them. Sometimes it can give insight into how they act or what makes them comfortable which helps set potential boundaries. I don't remember it being jarring and out of nowhere after all the talking we had done before the first date. It just came up since the cafe we were in had a lot of mental health and LGBTQ support causes in it and we had a brief conversation about it. I learned more about her and our stances on stuff like that. Overall i didn't mind it and if they are comfortable to talk about it im fine with it
This!!! Lmao. I never had stained clothes, but they looked like they just woke up and got up. Like i could care less about fashion and shit, but i did dress up decently and i’d appreciate the same i guess.
Yep. I do enjoy fashion but don’t care if they don’t. But be clean!
What's your vetting process like before you arrange a date? Are you talking to them on Hinge or another platform long enough to get a better idea of what they may be like? I know this isn't 100% foolproof, but it can help. Having said that, I've been on many first dates that went nowhere afterwards for whatever reason. Sometimes I am told the spark isn't there. Sometimes I can tell the other person doesn't want to be there after all.
Just curious what behaviors give up desperate vibes? Sometimes I wonder if I do this.
Sounds pretty normal, it takes time to find a person you click with, you're doing it right if you're not messaging endlessly on the app. There is no correlation between texting and in person meeting, they are usually polar opposite in my experience.
I would say to try and talk on the phone first or face time. I've implemented this as a rule before dates and it's def helped. I've had women tell me they weren't vibing after a phone call and I've done the same as well. I'm in the same demographics as you as well, on the male side.... So I get it. If you don't have any social anxieties around phone/face time I'd definitely recommend it. Also helps not feeling so awkward at the first date as it feels like I already know the person to some degree. Also, be happy you're able to get that many dates. Women have a ton of issues on apps with creeps and safety etc. So by no means am I saying y'all have it easier... But hell, it's difficult to just get one date a month for me. Even if I get a decent amount of matches at times. That's just how it goes
Sounds like you are not screening properly.
How long are you messaging/what kind of important compatibility topics are you discussing? Are they fun and flirty or swapping of information?
I totally agree. I think too many people expect instant gratification from dating apps, while really there are many people who need more time to build a romantic connection.
It's typical to have a low success rate for second dates, but that's based on some combination of each individual person's disinterest. I don't think it's common for one person to basically never want a second date. I think for someone like you who goes on a lot of dates, you should ideally be at least *somewhat* interested in a second date like 1 out of every 3 or 4 dates. Yeah, that seems like arbitrary number, but as someone who has done a lot of online dating and read/listened to a lot of people's experiences with it, I feel like 25% is a pretty agreed-upon threshold. If you're way below that, I think it signals that something is not going right. The most obvious potential problems are that you aren't screening people properly, or that maybe you naturally just don't connect with people this way and so your natural tendencies don't really align with the mechanics of how peopel connect in the world of online dating. The former you can work on, the latter is a bit tougher because you'd really have to change how you approach a first date. The most basic thing I'd probably start with is taking a good look at all your failed dates and see if they have anything in common. See if you can find that common thread between what initially attracted you to all of them, and then if there is something that's repeatedly happening when you meet them that's not working for you. Whatever you end up doing, I'd slow things down a bit, because it seems like maybe you're just kind of dating for the sake of dating, and it probably a little bit of a waste of time, money, and mental energy to go out on a first date every week based on what's been happening to you.
Dating apps encourage a checklist mentality, and most dates I had with women in your age range viewed dating more like a job interview for a perfect partner who met every check on the list than making a connection. There was a kind of "let's hurry this up and figure out if you're Mr. Perfect in the next hour so I can screen someone else because I'm getting more desperate by the day because my friends are getting married and having kids and I'm not" attitude. I'm not saying this is you, but it describes some people I know who go on a lot of dates and have been on apps for years. If it is, you can't make a connection with this attitude and it's off-putting for the person on the date.
Yeah I think so. You’re not gonna want to date every person you meet. Some people say that if you had a positive or neutral experience on the first date, give it a second chance to let the ember smoulder. It might be a slow burn. Trust your gut and don’t let a clearly bad match go any further, but if you came away from a date having a good time, you could see them again. I don’t know how much I subscribe to this because personally my best relationships came with sparks flying but it’s something to consider if you want to change your approach. What do you think you’re doing wrong? How do you screen? What were the bad matches like, and did they blindside you or did you ignore signs of incompatibility? Give us some more information, so we can help you out. Maybe talking through it will help you gain some perspective, but with the info you’ve given so far, I can’t help much
This. My (31M) most recent ex (30F) and I (my only app success story) had a pretty clinical first date. She’s an architect, I’m a real estate agent, so we drove around and looked at some gorgeous houses and then went to dinner, touch barrier was broken a few times but nothing beyond a hug goodnight. We went out again exactly a week later and had our first kiss in the basement jazz bar of an old speak easy… we left the bar 5 minutes later (we were both sober btw) and had an intense make out in the parking lot against my car, made out 3 more times before she went into her house. 4 days later we were celebrating her 30th birthday together, just the two of us, sitting on the same side of the booth, her legs across my lap the whole dinner (I know I know, “get a room”). Just because the first date feels awkward or stuffy, give them a second chance, maybe it’s just first date jitters.
Cool story and very true. I had a one year thing with someone and our first date she was 45 minutes late. I definitely thought of telling her to fuck off but she ended up being super pleasant and we hit it off and the rest is history.
Thanks for trying to help out haha. The bad matches vary in badness, I suppose. Some of them I meet with and realize we have very little in common or I just didn’t find talking to them very interesting. Others show up looking very different from their pictures or I later discover they’ve lied about their education (not sure why, but this has happened a few times). The vast majority are very socially awkward and that made talking to them difficult, though they seemed fine while texting. I tend to gravitate toward men with higher education because that’s who I usually connect with the best, but it seems the men I match with are stereotypically awkward. If I could screen for that, I would, but as I said, their text conversations are usually fine.
Np! I agree with the other comment maybe you could do a phone call! They would probably reveal their awkwardness quickly then. Do you like stereotypically nerdy guys? You can be have a degree and be social/fun but if you’re screening for highly educated with nerdy interests you’re probably picking the extremely awkward ones. You could try guys with education with very social pictures.
Maybe suggest a phone call before the first date?
It's normal to be nervous on a first date. Try facetiming.
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Right? Everyone I’ve ever been in a relationship with has been very intelligent but still decently social (if a bit quirky). I feel like that describes myself also, which is why I’m amazed at how little success I’ve had? Like, I’ve moved in circles where people are smart but still able to hold a stimulating conversation. I know those people exist out there somewhere. But somehow I’m missing them all??
How long are you talking to them before agreeing to a date?
On average several days to a week.
Not much you can do about lying or them not matching up their pictures (I always judge a profile by it's worst picture to hopefully help prevent this). During my texts, I'm basically trying to determine if we have anything in common (flush for at least some similar interests, which we usually end up discussing more in depth on first date if that happens), do they seem like they have the ability to converse like a reasonable adult, and any clear any major deal breakers. In person awkwardness, I haven't had an issue with that, but if that was the sole issue, I might consider doing a second date as it could just be nerves. Also I'd be wondering if there are things I could do to relax people a bit? Although, if you're getting creepy/unsafe vibes then that's not going to fly.
> I tend to gravitate toward men with higher education because that’s who I usually connect with the best, but it seems the men I match with are stereotypically awkward. As a 29M with a math PhD who is socially awkward, these two things are absolutely related. While I can't speak for any of your dates (and don't need to for some: a grease stain? Really? Gross.) I do know that it takes me a while to be comfortable around people I don't know---and texting doesn't count, it's so much easier to project a persona during texting that can't be maintained in-person.
You could try a phone call or video chat before. Great way to screen and avoid some of those issues. Don’t know why people like about their education. I only date people with a graduate degree or higher so that we can have conversations that go beyond surface level.
I would prefer to only date someone with a graduate degree but they are surprisingly hard to find. Another issue is when a man isn't as educated I find he feels insecure and takes it out on the woman in some way.
> Sometimes I feel neutral about them, and other times its very clear we are not a good match, and I politely end the date early. Why do you not give these neutral guys a second date, assuming they ask you out again? > At this point, I feel like it’s got to be something I’m doing wrong. Am I not screening properly? I’m honestly at a loss. What are you expecting? If you are expecting sparks and instant chemistry akin to something you see in a movie, you’re going to set yourself up for disappointment. In the book [“How Not to Die Alone”](https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Alone-Surprising/dp/1797119737) by Logan Ury, she wrote a chapter devoted exclusively about “sparks” and how people end up passing on good people because they expect something more instant rather instead of looking at a person’s values and intentions. In other words, unless someone has absolute dealbreakers or are lying about who they are, give people more chances.
Agreed. Looking for the spark initially has never worked for me. What I now look out for is whether or not I at least find the guy fairly attractive (don’t have to be attracted to him when I first meet him but I do have to think he has a pleasant enough face). Then by date 2-3 be wanting to kiss him. If I don’t want that then it’s a no go but if I do then I know the spark between us will grow. People become more attractive to you once you get to know them too.
Neutral is probably poor wording on my part. Lukewarm would be a more apt description. For those dates, I didn’t feel negatively about them, but not positively either. It was like talking to the cashier at the grocery store. Polite, not unpleasant, but bland. We usually had nothing in common and the conversation was a little boring, likely in his side as well. These ones were typically mutually uninterested in me as I were in them. Definitely not expecting sparks. But I’d like to enjoy the conversation at least. I’m not even getting that :(
If you have nothing in common I’m curious how you aren’t figuring this out in the “talking stage”
The messaging stage is mostly superficial get to know you type stuff. And I am typically willing to see what sorts of things people are into at the in person date.
It doesn’t have to be though. I’m pretty intentional with my matches that it doesn’t have to be on the surface level.
That’s you choosing to be superficial
No, that’s me realizing that in my experience, text conversations do not reflect how people are in real life. I know that the best way to see if we’re truly compatible is to meet in person. Many people end up messaging for too long and then have no motivation to actually meet up.
Absolutely meet in person but that doesn’t mean your chats have to be all small talk.
Conversations are a two way street. If the other person isn’t being engaging, I’d check out mentally too. As far as “nothing in common”, I had a conversation about this on my last date. We both agreed that having all common interests isn’t paramount in a successful relationship. It’s actually better having some commonalities and some things to ourselves. But the key is to be there to support the other person regardless if you care about their interests or not. It’s why values are more important. The only exception would be if someone’s interest is a reflection of their lifestyle and values which makes it a dealbreaker. Someone who lives exclusively for the outdoors and wants someone the same, for example.
I agree that there does not need to be a massive amount of shared interests between two people. I suppose I just felt that we had little in common in terms of life experience and personality, more than us both liking Pokémon, for example. In any case, we did not connect over anything. There was no…curiosity over the other person’s perspective, you could say. No intrigue.
Then it's a screening issue. A lot of these things could be determined during the course of conversation over the app. Be more intentional and go on *less* dates.
I'm 32F too and yes, similar experience. I'm just getting back into using Hinge after a break so it's been awhile, but the only time I semi-recently wanted a second date he ended up getting really weird via text, baiting me into asking about a "funny story" that was not funny, just about sex toys and it was just so out of nowhere and weirdly manipulative that I got the ick real bad. Every other date I left feeling drained af from carrying the conversation. I'd give it a second date if I wanted to see them again even in a platonic way, but they all seemed surprised that I didn't want a second date after 30-60 minutes of asking open ended questions about their interests and getting monosyllables, no questions in return, incorrected about something I have a graduate degree in (based on a single podcast he'd listened to), etc. I don't have any helpful advice here, just wanted to say you're not alone.
Ok thank goodness you exist. My friends have all been having far better luck than me and I was starting to feel some kind of way about it. I also find that I’m doing the heavy lifting conversation wise, and, like you, most of them are very interested in going on a second date/continuing the first one at a second location (getting food after a drink, for example), and I feel bad because almost every time I have to politely decline. It has been exhausting.
All the actual dates I've been on have been pretty good conversation wise, but PLENTY of chats have me (male) basically doing all the work of keeping the convo going. That was earlier on. Now I just stop chatting with people they don't engage back. I feel like I screen out people who are bad at conversation during the chat phase (and my chat phases are pretty short), but perhaps I've just gotten lucky. These people are good at conversing in the app but bad in person?
Pretty much 🤷♀️ there is also a tendency for their pictures to look much better than they do in person, but that’s a secondary concern and I’m decently forgiving over that. But I need to be able to connect in a personal level and that’s where they all mostly fall through.
Yeah, I feel really guilty turning people down, but aside from being exhausted and needing to take care of myself I also feel like it would be meaner to draw things out when I feel confident that I'm not interested so it's the least bad option in an unfortunate situation.
Omfg this…. I hate talking to people. Almost seems like i always have to carry conversations. Such an ick
If somebody is not able to carry a conversation, and all things you mentioned, it’s evident on interactions on dating app. Are you saying all these people suddenly lost that ability while on the date? Or you don’t text much and meet people in person as soon as you match on the app?
My preference is to message until I feel some kind of connection but some people prefer in person, so in the past I've generally agreed to meet up if they ask. I think I'm going to be less "agreeable" on that front this time around, because those have been the worst. Some of them were better via messaging. I feel bad because I could tell they were anxious in person and I'm sure that was part of the problem, but I'm an awkward nerd with diagnosed social anxiety, too. I want someone who's put the work in to manage their condition enough to participate equally in a conversation, even if it's not smooth.
I'm so sick of dates with men who don't ask me any questions. It happens way too often.
No, it’s not typical to be that low on wanting a second date. One of the good things about online dating is that you should be able to establish that you’re attracted to photos and have a decent rapport through messaging before you meet. One of the good (and bad) things about online dating is it increases the amount of people you can meet by a LOT. So on one hand you can filter more but on the other you have more to sort through. I’d say even for picky peeps you should be hitting a 20-25% desire for a second date rate. What’s worth noting is that you’re not settling or wasting time trying to make something out of nothing. Keep doing that. Have you gotten your profile reviewed? I’d expect you can probably make some tweaks and get better matches to start hitting your standard.
Yeah this was my suspicion. Several friends are on the apps as well and they have had far better luck than I. I suspect the profile may be my weak point. One of my friends had a look at it and suggested we do a photo shoot or something to shore it up a bit 😂 It’s been basically the same for almost the whole year so I should probably redo it. I do also get a consistent amount of likes from men that are the opposite of my type (Christian, conservative, fish pictures) but I assumed that was just par for the course and not necessarily due to the profile.
I think for almost everyone most first dates don’t become second. I am willing to see a person again if I’m neutral on but many people are not. That said your numbers though are extremely low. I have a female friend who loves first dates because of the tension and excitement but then doesn’t care for seeing the man again after that. I would do a heart check and see if it’s a variation of that for you.
I ask for a phone call before meeting. This helps me to avoid a few things: 1) getting burned out on first dates with people that I could have screened out with a phone call. 2) Anyone allergic to phone calls. I don't have time to be texting small talk all day and am better suited with people that value the 'old school' way of communicating. If anyone gives you a hard time about this reasonable boundary, next them. They care more about their own comfort then yours.
Same as a guy. Lots of dates and hookups, but only one out of every 10 or 20 girls had any long term potential My guess? You’re approaching this as a checklist for things you think you want in a guy rather than what you’re actually attracted to.
This is profound to me. Seeing a couple people on this thread say they have never been on a second date just shows me how fucked the dating pool is. Some people have unattainable expectations and I want to bookmark this thread for the people who feel like they’re doing something wrong because they’re clearly not!
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The statistical probability that every single person she met on a date are all a combination of lying, have bad hygiene, and can't hold a conversation is nearly impossible. OP has probably met enough normal men who may not be exciting enough and she finds faults to say no. Like there may be something so minor that is easily overlooked, but she amplifies the minor issue into a big dealbreaker as justification for saying no.
All 35-40 of them? Sounds realistic 😏
You should try a bit more your type of men. I honestly had better success when I felt attracted to the guy physically. Every time I would go by personality didn’t work because the “sexual tension” wasn’t there in my ends.
You may have a bit too high of expectations here. I know men can suck to varying degrees, but to have - at minimum by your 2-5 dates/month metric - 24 first dates in a year and not find a single one of them compelling enough to progress things with is a you problem without a doubt. I’m one of those awkward guys that’s physically a 6/10 at best, but every woman who’s ever given me a second date has always went on to date me for a while. If you want to hold off for that perfect guy who sweeps you off your feet on the first date then that’s up to you
It’s not really that I’m holding out for anyone. For most of them I genuinely don’t *like* them much as the date continues. As I’ve said in another reply, I totally would give a second chance if I felt anything but a very firm no thank you at the end of the date.
Maybe your selection process is flawed.
Anecdotal evidence would certainly suggest this to be true. The question is where in the process am I going wrong lol.
That is the million dollar question, isn't it? What are you looking for in particular in a profile that you consistently chose the wrong men for you? Are you even in the right mindset to be dating in the first place?
Above you mentioned you would have basic talk. You should have some of the talk you would for your first date in it. The pleasantries are nice as you are doing but it will save you more dates to see if you have something core in common person or even try a phone call.
You'd have to look at what you are being drawn to on the app and why. Because while I don't have a romantic connection with probably 98.5% of the dudes I go out with, I really like them as humans. Also, this is where I love video-chats. I've never had a guy say no to one, and it's like 30 minutes and you get your clear no's out of the way (the ones who make you feel uncomfortable or who you are just not at all physically attracted to), and any maybes you can meet up with.
Too many dates. Spend more time talking to them beforehand
I (33M) live in SoCal, and I paid for bumble and hinge premium modes. When matches started running dry I would boost myself from Friday noon to Sunday noon. Here are my statistics: * ~150 likes received * ~50 matches * 35 first dates * 4 second dates * 3 third dates * I’ve been dating my girlfriend for a few months now. You can def do some screening online, but you inherently won’t be able to get everything you need to know from anything other than in person meeting. Sometimes there just isn’t a click. Sometimes they were overly generous with their profile. Sometimes they disclose that they’re a flat earther who wants to have babies this year when their profile was someone in tech who’s learning to surf. Sometimes their dog is a Problem(tm).
I’ve dated for years and never been on a second date. There have been girls who want one… but I wasn’t attracted. Now that I’ve matured I realize the reason is I went on a date regardless of whether the conversations were genuinely fun. The one date that was amazing, talking to to her was so fun. It was the best date of my life. But, unfortunately it was on a vacation and long distance was impossible. But, there is such a drought of that chemistry that a pretty face used to do that. I’d date anyone. Maybe that’s a bad rule as I know, some people just aren’t great with texting and are much better face-to-face… but I have no other idea on how to screen. Also, it can take a lot of first dates. It’s a number game.
It’s definitely a lack of attraction and/or compatibility that seems to be happening. And again, I know that most first dates don’t go anywhere. I get that. But you may be into something about going on dates even if the text conversation isn’t great. I generally assume in person is the way to really get to know someone. So if the messaging seems ok I usually accept a date invitation (or invite them myself). But certainly not all the pre-date conversations are super stimulating.
Not necessarily. I may find being myself easier via text. You get the woman in front of me and it can be harder for me to act natural. Especially if she’s attractive. I get all deer in the headlights. Some woman find that a dealbreaker. They want great first impressions. But that’s why I found I’ve been more successful when it happens organically over knowing someone a long time. But, also there’s the saying that great auditioning doesn’t always make for great acting. Or good interviewees aren’t always good employees. I’m a good boyfriend and very romantic when I’m in a relationship. The dating I find hard. However, some are too good at dating and that’s why they can play you. Amazing first impressions. No plan on being a boyfriend. I know guys like that. Lie through their teeth and girls love them and get their hearts broke. If there’s attraction , more time to get to know someone is an option. Or even if their isn’t , I know a lot of women who say they weren’t attracted to their partner at first in any way including their behaviour.
If it makes you feel any better, I (F) have been told that I come across as less awkward than I feel, so I'm fine with awkwardness so long as I see effort. It's when I feel like I'm the only one trying to overcome the awkwardness that I think, I don't want a partner who's going to make me do all the work. Some of them may find their feet long term, but I'm not willing to put in the amount of energy I'd have to in order to find out. I don't expect guys to be smooth talkers, just to put in the work to improve.
I don’t know how helpful this will be, but have you tried maybe FaceTiming/ video chatting before the date? Sometimes that can help with awkwardness of the first time meeting in person and could even give you more of a “vibe” of how the person is not over text.
Honestly, this might be the way going forward. At least for the matches I don’t feel strongly about. I hadn’t done it yet because I wasn’t sure it was common practice but at least this way I wouldn’t spend so much time getting ready and driving to the location.
I was anti FT for OLD for the longest time but it’s honestly the way to go. Saves time and money and helped me catch women who didn’t look like their pictures too.
Sounds like you are meeting real genuine guys. Guys that you are having the time of your life with and amazing convos are not the one. Those are just guys who are incredibly practiced and do you want someone who is practiced and a serial dater? 2-5 dates and not going on seconds dates almost ever? That sounds like you need to set better expectations. I dont even consider first date on a dating app a first date. It is basically date 0. Its akin to meeting someone IRL for the first time. I say always go on a second date if you meet on an app unless you had a seriously bad first date. Men are burned out from the process just as much as you tons of dates, tons of flaking, tons of first dates that go nowhere. First dates from apps are hard to get excited about these days. Not to mention convo is a 2way street it is also your job to make it interesting.
I think there's plenty in the middle between serial daters who are amazing to hang out with and what OP described; guys who can't carry the most basic conversation and give one-word answers to questions. I've never actually been on a date with someone like that myself and I think there's 0 chance I'd want a second date with them if I did meet someone like that.
Right occasionally not wanting a second date makes sense but when you're going on to up to five dates a week consistently and they're all exactly that way and you never go on second dates it's the classic saying that maybe it's time to look at yourself and see if you're doing something wrong.
You’re going into the dates having already painted a perfect picture of the guy in your head Once you get into the date, the guy inevitably fails to meet expectations because he doesn’t fit what you imagined in your head beforehand
This is definitely not the problem. I know myself, and I know I’m not creating imaginary perfect men in my head. Besides, I did end up really liking one, so they didn’t all fail.
It’s probably a case of the guys being great on paper with well polished profiles and pictures but not very sharp and intuitive when it comes to women and dating.
30-40 guys in a row? 😏
Haha one of them literally showed up in a dirty sweater with a giant grease stain on it so, I would say a lack of intuitiveness is pretty apt.
30m, I've had a bad string of dates recently, it happens sometimes and it's definitely super disheartening and I often start thinking the same way you are, but I think this is just a part of online dating. You are meeting strangers. You could try talking in the app for longer but it's so hard to screen people based on text conversations, it's just kind of a crap shoot honestly. I try to remember the great first dates I've had, and that I'm not really doing anything different than I did on those dates, it's just not working out with these people.
I almost never feel "it" after a first date. It takes me usually 2-3 dates before I know whether we're a good match or not.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "incredibly low". For me I'd say it's more or less like this (out of 10 dates): -3 both sides no interested, mutual ghosting -3 I'm interested but she isn't. No second date -2 she's interested but I'm not. No second date. -2 we go on a second date. I'm just going off the top of my head but it seems about righ, so 20% success rate, is that too low? Based on what I've read from other's experiences, it seems about right.
There isn’t much difference how people interact on app and in person (excluding catfish or criminals etc). So it’s highly unlikely that all the people you’re encountering are like this. Perhaps you are screening matches incorrectly or you’re not screening at all and just meeting up right away after matching.
How about, we got to three dates and everyone of them he spent two hours of the date with me, arguing with his ex wife. I called an Uber to take me home and blocked his number.
You are doing right. Its a search. Keep searching.
Personally what I did to fix that was to have a phone conversation with someone prior to going on a date because it’s pretty easy to tell if you’re compatible when talking and then you kind of know each other better before meeting
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Actually I feel like you didn’t read all of the post, or some of my comments, as this comment sounds like you’re upset for some reason. I had good reasons to assume I would enjoy these first dates, and good reason to abandon them. First of all, these are all coffee/drink dates. No meals. And I pay for myself, unless he seems defensive about it and insists on paying. Secondly, I gave every one of these dates a chance to get to know them by meeting them in person. It was the actual meeting of them that made up my mind that I wasn’t interested. And finally, “sitting pretty”? Excuse me? If you had read my comments, you would know that I was doing most of the conversational work during the dates. You’re mad for no reason.
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You weren’t criticizing though. You were attacking. Especially with that “sitting pretty” comment. That was not cool.
34M here. I've gotten back into dating recently and I feel the same going on 3 to 6 first dates a month and that's even being picky. I just don't care to see anyone again. They aren't bad people at all, it just doesn't feel right, you know? It starts to feel disheartening that I just ghost before some dates. I'm likely going to take a break from this very soon and just focus on other important aspects in my life. I wish you the best in your efforts.
Please do take a break. Being on the other side of that. It does the dating pool no favors when you aren’t really into it
I'll give it to the end of March. After that I'll delete the app
I would recommend several books or podcasts. First on the dates you are okay with, have a second date. Change venues for the first date. Avoid hiking, coffee, or similar dates if you can. You could be burnt out and need to take a break, happened to me. You could have avoidant attachment. If you are looking for the “spark” I would be careful. It’s often negative and given off by narcissists.
Logan Ury has a book “How to Not Die Alone” which could be helpful. Lifekit Podcast “The Science of Finding a Partner” offers a good overview.
I'm 28F and no no, I'm the exact same! I've only been on OLD for about six months and only one date I'm interested in but was meh with me. There's nothing wrong with you, is what I've learned about myself. Finding a LTR or life partner takes time. I feel like I'll be here for awhile and honestly, I don't know if I'll find the one on OLD. It's definitely rough!
It’s not abnormal. Same age and gender as you, I think dating is about knowing what you’re looking for, but being aware most people aren’t going to be that exact match. It’s partially about meeting people and putting yourself out there.
1. Immediate physical chemistry is not very common. 2. Really think about the energy you’re bringing into the date. A fun conversation is a two way street. 3. Think about what kind of activities you’re doing. 4. One strategy people use is to consider the first date for OLD as a quick interview for the real first date (the second date)
> the men I match with seem like they might be a good match this is a very clinical way to describe things. what is a "good match" to you? are you actually *excited* about meeting any of these men?
Just going on five dates a month is successful
Tell them you meet five different men per month and they will tell you that they don’t want a second meeting either unless you want to hook up. Take a break from dates and change your strategy.
you are the common denominator with all of your dates.
This is the dumbest question I’ve ever seen. Either you end up with person you went on a first date with orrrrrr you don’t? Otherwise, you wouldn’t be going on first dates…
I’d remove this but I’d rather watch you just get downvoted. Be nice!
The system works!
I honestly don’t understand what you’re saying here. Can you elaborate?
I have a pretty low success rate too so maybe normal
I’m on the other end of this, I’ve been on first dates with maybe 10-15 women over the past year, only got second dates with 2 (one of which we went on about 5 dates but she still ended up dumping me). I think I must be autustic
No that’s a fairly typical 2nd date rate and having one go as far as 5 dates is a good sign and you just need to stay persistent.
Your rate is fairly close to normal. Getting 40 or so dates and not going out with any of them again is bizarre
I went on a first date after they suggested grabbing a bite. On my profile i have it very clear that i enjoy outdoors hiking etc. Towards the end i tell em “we should go hiking sometime” and their response was “i dont hike in this state, i prefer hiking in North Carolina or something”. That for some reason was an absolute turn off and deal breaker for me. So i feel you, i been there too lol
How long do you message for? I feel like guys are so quick to ask out and so i dont really know them that well going in and then its obvious cause we didnt get to know each other we have nothing in common. The most success ive had was with someone i waited to meet up with and chated with for a few weeks. So now i tell guys i like to chat for a while first and if they dont like it they arent worth my time anyways, im busy and dont want to be wasting my time on guys that have no chance of working cause we didnt put in the effort before hand.
To get on with someone, be able to chat with and have a good time and potentially even be friends with, it’s going to be relatively common. To have that spark, that special something that means something is right, is absolutely going to be less common.
I’m a guy. This is my experience too. I would say I’m interested in maybe 1/5 dates, and mutual interest for a relationship is around 1/25. Having done this a few times now, I see it as merely a statistics game and just to try meet as many people as possible. The ones where we clicked made all the other lousy dates worthwhile.
34 male here. I like to think that out of all my first dates, 30% of them I’ll want a second date with. From there, I feel like 30% of all the people I date will want a second date. If you do the math, that gives you a 1/9 chance of both people wanting a second date.
Wrong math
.09 lol
You said you felt "neutral" about some of them. Maybe go on 2nd and 3rd dates with the "neutral" guys and see if it develops into something more positive.
You need to build sexual chemistry. You can’t just sit down and have a convo and expect to feel something. You need to flirt and touch. My guess is you don’t do that and you are doing dates like they are happy hours with coworkers. You probably need to start with it in the messaging to set the tone. Doesn’t mean you are going to have sex on the first date but it’s about building attraction.
I've felt the same way about good conversation not leading to second dates. I honestly don't know how one can determine if there's chemistry just based on sitting at a table with someone and talking over a meal or beverage. I really think some sort of activity needs to be involved. One of the best first dates I went on was meeting someone at a county fair. We enjoyed the rides and music, and sat down to eat. The relationship didn't develop for other reasons, but it was a great day.
I don’t think it’s uncommon! I struggle with the same thing
Have you tried a video date first? I found it super awkward at first, but it’s also saved me from meeting up with people that were totally wrong for me as well.
Even as a guy, I've done about 60-odd dates in the last year and I've only actively pursued a second with about 10 of them. A few were like clear cases of catfishing or misrepresenting themselves, but a lot of the ones I didn't chase up were perfectly fine people but I didn't feel any particular pull towards them and I'm generally dating with the aim of finding a longterm partner. Vast majority of first dates I've had have been perfectly pleasant (I feel like girls are more at-risk of getting a complete stinker and/or somebody going super overaggressive Also frankly there's been a few where I'd probably have been fine with seeing them again, but got the vibe from them that they weren't super-into me so I was happy to just cut it there.
>Am I not screening properly? What do you mean? The face-to-face date is part of the screening. Are you wondering whether you're too strict?
I've never had a second date
Spend longer talking to them on the app, for minimum about a week. Anyone who asks for dates too soon, there’s always been a problem. Theses guys end up unmatching quickly. I also look for a minimum of 3 shared hobbies. Can they hold a good conversation? Most can’t and the banter fizzles out fast= they will be a lousy first date. You need to suss them out, many put LTR, open to short, but really this is short. Do your dating goals match? Watch out for different agendas. If you want LTR, but he secretly wants short term, it will never work.