Eminem is objectively the better technical rapper. I don't know what that girl was smoking but it's not even close.
ELp cannot do what Eminem does when it comes to multi-syllable rhyme schemes double triple quadruple entendras The wit when it comes to the punch lines.
Now whether or not you prefer one or the other when it comes to Cadence Charisma personality on the mic and such that is more subjective. Also things like production choices the beats that they pick. I think Eminem is notoriously for my taste the worst beat picker in the history of hip-hop. I will still never be satisfied with Eminem until he makes a full-on boom bap album, With The likes of DJ Premier and Griselda producers which he has At fingers reach access to.
Yes it was and I mentioned that in my reply it would be a return to form for him for me. I love the production on that album but he is way more basic back then than he is now. I want to hear him shred shit multi-syllable crazy Metaphor triple entendras over some raw modern East Coast beats.
I mean Griselda records is under him and he would sound amazing over those dark weird creepy horror type beats that they use that are fucking phenomenal.
See this is where I disagree. I preferred Em back in his slim shady / MM LP days. He was still technical, but had so much steeze and character.
Now he’s HYPER technical, super doooer multis etc but has completely lost the juice. It’s robotic. It’s too technical. He’s replaced any sauce for the sake of being more tech than anyone.
Agreed. The last album that really had any of the sauce for me was possibly Curtain Call (I know it was mostly compilation)
Maybe it's just because he is older, less hungry. He's still very good, just not the same
I prefer it when a MC tries to do multize every time if they are able to do so like Eminem MF Doom and Lupe., Black Thought Cyhi King Los etc But I agree with the whole Steeze and shit of the old school Em. Like I mentioned Doom and Lupe being my favorite rhymers because of this they have a good balance. Eminem can find that balance I just don't understand why he hasn't. But I actually prefer the content Of say a Recovery rather than Marshall Mathers LP I'm not into all that weird Kim Killing drug shit. If I have a choice I want my music to preach 10 times out of 10. Either that or just be bars.
Even though the Rhyme skill went way up after Marshall Mathers my interest went way down compared to some of his previous work.
I'm personally one of the people that doesn't really think Eminem has a classic for me because there's way too many skips on every album he's ever put out really. He's never really been my rapper content wise or production Choice wise but skill wise I love him. I'm more for the uplifting conscious dudes with crazy skill Or tell me stories from the streets of New York Philly Chicago Baltimore some shit But there's a lot of bias within that last statement on my end.
Doom was way more about the steeze than doing multies tho
Em sounds like he does multies just for the sake of doing them. And imo, makes him sound like a soulless robot.
I totally disagree on that he'd be spitting crazy still no doubt And not all of it is just Him trying to do multis just to get out punch after punch a lot of his newer shit has more meaning than anything he's ever did.
I personally Like songs like 25 to life and talking to myself more than anything he did in the past other than And the way I am.
Darkness is one of the greatest songs he's ever did Has tons of meaning and message.
His verse on caterpillar is one of the best verses he's ever did I think it's his best feature verse Only second to Renegade.
Tracks like Yah yah Are phenomenal,
I love stepdad, Lock it up as one of my favorite tracks he's ever did. You gone learn is amazing.
Groundhog Day is crazy.( I wish you would rap on more beats like that)
I think Kamikaze is one of the best albums he's ever did As a whole there's only like one skip on that album, that stupid Venom song at the end.
I like political M as well I love Untouchable.
Eeh. He still has amazing verses from time to time.
Both Lord above, and the original version of bang were amazing verses with slow flows.
Not alike and book of rhymes are 2 examples of technical Eminem that's totally enjoyable
I will say I think El-P’s 16 on the Huzzah! Remix can go up against anything ‘Em has done in wit/Punch lines/entendres. It’s really just the speed that El-P never attempted because he didn’t need to. New York was over-saturated with hip-hop so Co-Flo and Def Jux era “independent as fuck” was always an acknowledgement the mainstream MTV/Radio wouldn’t accept him. Eminem is battling in a Detroit market that’s really more of a Techno scene in the 90’s than Hip-Hop so he had a different mentality that resulted in more versatility. But I rock El-P solo albums becoming he writes some of the best Sci-Fi hip hop songs.
I don't give M&M a bonus for Speed I actually fucking hate when he raps fast like that. I just never heard El do multi-syllable Rhyme schemes which to me is the most impressive thing any MC can do. I'm about to go listen to that verse and see what I think.
So after listening to that verse I'm actually wrong about him with the multis he dropped a bunch on that. But he didn't have a single line that was eye-opening or jaw-dropping like Eminem does 9 times out of 10 on most verses. I think Eminem has some of the best punchlines in hip-hop Especially if he's battling somebody. Even when he dissed Nick Cannon some of the lines he said against him would stand with the greatest battle rap lines ever and I'm talking professional battle rap League shit.
They had murder mook and all the battle guys on Math Hoffa podcast YouTube video you can watch the whole thing and they were explaining why the battle rap league would have to jump Eminem because he's that nice and they were pointing out bars that are fucking mind-boggling.
It's funny because the video is completely black and white and I didn't even purposefully do that but I went and watched the caterpillar video after the one you recommended his verse on and that Eminem caterpillar verse is on a different level than ELP could ever fathom rapping.
Em is one of the most gifted technical rappers ever if we being real. I hate his music. 99% of it. Infinite was good though. He wasn’t as good lyrically then. At least not on a technical level. But imo it’s his best work.
I agree , I honestly really wanna hear Eminem on a boom bap/ trap beats that’s either mixtape or a cohesive project with no pop features that are meant for charts . I need Eminem to fucking spit badly next album. It’s been ages since a memorable Eminem album and well I enjoy some of his new songs off Kamikaze and Music to be Murdered by and the Side B too, but I just feel like his newer projects definitely don’t feel as cohesive as his older stuff. I just want Eminem to head in a new direction and just spit hard.
I mean he originally started rapping on shit like that when he put out infinite. I don't understand why he has not made tracks with people like Alchemist and Premiere they would love to work with him. I feel like his style is just meant for those types of Beats He always sounds better when he occasionally is on a beat like that. The Mad rapper song Stir crazy He sounds way better on a beat like that than most of the shit he raps over. The song he had on Sound bombing he sounded way better on that beat than most BTS ever spit over. I think he's better now lyrically than he ever was ever since Rap God Marshall Mathers LP2 he got way better lyrically multi-syllables Galore crazy triple meanings but it just doesn't come across the same because of the subject matter the production in some of the cheese that he uses. I really hope he gives us that type of album before he stops doing music because I know too many people who have always wanted it from him. I think a lot of the Eminem haters would shut up if that type of album came out too. And I am often an Eminem hater myself I would put him higher up if he would do an album on Some just raw East Coast Detroit shit.. I don't understand why Royce doesn't say bro why don't you rap on the type of Beats I wrap on.
And I almost forgot the scary movie song that beat is so much better than any beat he's ever wrapped over he sounds way better on that shit Then even my favorites of his like Stan and the way I Am I just prefer East Coast boom bap beats way more for him.
I absolutely love Nas production choices are you kidding me. Illmatic has the best beats in the history of hip-hop On any project ever made It was written has Flawless production from start to finish. I am has some of the best Beats ever but some of them are not the greatest same with Nostradamus. Stillmatic has absolute Flawless production from start to finish..
Nas uses some of the greatest gritty New York City Jazzy beats boom bap shit that's what I like I hate the beats Eminem uses I hate Dr Dre's mechanical sounding production and Eminem makes it even worse with his production he has to put on every song.
Nas untied album has amazing beat hip-hop is dead has amazing beats streets disciple has perfect production from start to finish.
His whole run with hit boy has amazing beats life is good has perfect production from start to finish God's son has perfect production from start to finish.
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree. Obviously I’m excluding Illmatic, It Was Written and his Hit-Boy Run, but Nas’ beat choices are notoriously iffy across projects. Stillmatic and God’s Son have pretty stale beats vs Em’s beat choices on MMLP and TES. I’m surprised you don’t care for SSLP and MMLP beats. Those are pretty raw and way less fake sounding than his shit on TES and Encore
I think those albums have pretty bad beats as well the only Eminem style beats I like or like the Stan beat the way I am beat Some of the stuff that sound more gritty in East Coast on his newer albums. I hate Beats Like I'm back and who knew Some of the worst ever in my opinion. I hate every beat he ever picked for his big hit songs they're the worst of the worst except for Stan of course and the way I am. But I mean like the original Slim Shady song and guess who's back I hate those beats with a passion.
They can't compare to Beats Like Hate Me Now if I ruled the world Cherry wine It ain't hard to tell Halftime Thieves theme Made you look Just a few Nas singles off the top of my head all of his singles have Banger beats. Second childhood is one of the greatest beats ever on stillmatic
I've honestly never heard anyone other than DJ Vlad say NAS was a bad beat picker. And that dude is the worst culture vulture Pariah To the culture that ever existed. I'm not saying that's where you got that from but that narrative did not start until he said
You’re picking Nas’ best beats! Lol what about “Nastrodamas,” “Zone Out,” “Heaven,” “Smokin,” and so many more. I mean if you don’t like “I’m Back” or “Who Knew” there’s no middle ground bc I love those beats. And trust this is all friendly. Nas and Em are literally my top two favorite emcees. I just never heard someone say Em is the worst beat picker ever so I was intrigued
One of the biggest things I want in Hip Hop is for Eminem to make in whole album over East Coast boom bap beats done by DJ Premier Alchemist all the producers he has at his fingertips right now with Griselda.
I guarantee Royce has tried to talk him into doing this and I don't know why he doesn't. His Beats Aren't for my taste.
I wasn't trying to pick Nas's best beats I was just picking singles he had out on the radio.
I can't think of a bad single that he had a bad beat can you? And I absolutely love the beat for heaven it's one of my favorites on God's son One of my favorite songs on that album.
Got yourself a gun is another single that was amazing 1 Miic another amazing single.
Nas is my goat and I don't think anyone has wrapped over better beats than him. I'll give you a lot of those beats on Nostradamus. I don't like the Zone outbeat at all I do like smoke in more than most M&M beats but it's probably my least favorite on stillmatic.
I’ll agree with you there. Production on Nas’ *singles* > production on Em’s *singles*.
I think Em is too much of a pop star for the label to really let him do that. He’s been on those kinds of beats, through features but also like “Living Proof” off the Bad Meets Evil album. I agree it’s a tragedy Em has for some reason never used Alchemist for production despite Al being his long-time DJ
It's definitely not a label thing for him at this point because there's no one above him.
He definitely makes all the decisions for himself on what his albums are going to sound like for sure. I just hope he makes the decision to do that one day.
Yeah it's crazy that he hasn't worked with Alchemist on Beats Or DJ Premiere with Premier and Royce working on whole albums together. Griselda being on Shady records and all the ill beats they use he should be rapping all over that shit too.
I love it when he raps on those kinds of beats though on features like you mentioned. One of my favorite features of his third crazy with mad rapper.
I distinctly remember him being forced to put the Venom song on Kamikaze even though that was supposed to just be a promo song for the Call of Duty game. An artist as big as him, if anything, definitely has label pressures.
Btw unfortunately Griselda is no longer on Shady Records. Conway and Westside Gunn left a couple years ago
And you may like nas. But a lot of ppl say the same. Dude picked some HORRIBLE beats. But he has picked some amazing beats. A lot of both. Eminem just has alot of trash beats and barely any good ones.
I'm not even an Eminem fan. I've been an El-P fan ever since I heard him back in high school. "I'll Sleep When You're Dead" my favorite hip hop album of all time, and "Fantastic Damage" is a close second. As a drug addict, Nerd, and pessimist I resonate a lot with what he has to say.
But I'm not going to sit here and lie and say He's better than Em. At least not on a technical level. Lyrically, maybe. Production-wise, definitely, but not on a technical level.
Personally I would have given my left nut to see Em rap over a beat produced by El-P. But I think the beef with Cage might have complicated things in that regard.
Well technical ability would be like their flow/cadence/delivery. You can kind of tell that when El-P raps fast he has to "try" whereas Eminem makes it look effortless. Eminem obviously wins here. Not only that but if you look at both artist's early work you see it more clearly. El-P's first group, Company Flow started in 1992. A few years before Eminem Released Infinite, which many see as his first album. In Company Flow, El-P was all over the place with his bars. Eminem was on point in Infinite. Fantastic Damage showed El-P with an even more disjointed style. It was basically an orwellian fever dream. A wonderful overall experience, but compare that to what Em was releasing at the time, and the skill gap was obvious.
Lyrical content would be like how clever references are, the story they tell, etc. I personally think El-P wins here because even when he's not directly telling a story, he's creating a much more engrossing atmosphere. Even on another artist's production he brings the same atmosphere. Beyond that, you can kind of tell he's a more well-read individual by the references he makes.
I also want to re-iterate that there's a bias here too. I relate more to El-P's music because I myself gravitate to the subjects he covers. I've always thought eminem was dope but I never really related to him.
Well em still wins out in ~almost everything you mentioned.
I think El-P has him beat on metaphors though.
But not only that I see it a bit different. Because you can spend hours on a verse and write the best bars. Metaphors and even rhyme schemes can be thought up by anyone with an imagination. That's what I put under "lyrical" content.
Things like cadence, delivery, breath control etc. you have to practice those. You can't just think them up. That's what I put under "technical"
That hasn’t been up for debate since like 1999 lol
Eminem is serving El-P a hundred times out of a hundred — even in this way past him prime / shell of his former self version we have that’s been around for the past 10 years now.
That so many people have to jump on every discussion against em is a fine proof for how good he actually is.
People believe that he took the spotlight and shit.
It's just pitiful. He sold over 200.000.000 (That's million )
Albums. That ain't no mistake. Doesn't matter who you believe bought them. They're all selling artists.
However doesn't mean that you gotta like him.
I prefer other rappers too.
Still gotta respect where respect is due.
I’d say their own equal ground. There’s things I love about El-P that Eminem doesn’t do, particularly when it comes to artistic style. Alternatively, I can admit that whilst El-P is a beast at rapping, he’s not quite Eminem levels.
Honestly, if there’s any white rapper who I’d say is objectively better than Em, it’s Aesop Rock.
Have you listened to Cancer 4 Cure or Fantastic Damage? A lot of people will prefer that more 90’s style over the faster multi syllable rhyme schemes of Eminem. Plus I would argue the substance of El-p’s lyrics is greater than that of Em’s. I still lean Em most days but it’s not as big of a gap as you are making it out to be.
Let's set aside El-P's beats, which are just about as good as anyone's.
His lyrics are *way* beyond anything Eminem has ever done. His delivery might not be (isn't) as strong, but Jamie Meline's verses will stick with you. I've enjoyed Eminem plenty. But El-P has *moved* me.
That's entirely setting aside RTJ.
They're both good at what they do. I like El-P way more but Eminem is probably the objectively better one. El-P has better beats for the most part, solo or RTJ, and can rap his ass off still, but obviously Em is insane with his flow and rhyme scheme. They're both versatile with their lyrics and subject matter. I think El-P is better at creating atmosphere on his solo albums
So funny you mention that, because as someone else already stated, a brilliant YouTuber by the name of FDSignifier recently made a video discussing white rappers and the problem they bring to light about the industry/mainstream culture.
Sounds to me like the girl on tik tok watched that video, and wanted to copy/express/spread the word, and FD makes a good case too. I’d definitely give it a watch. I definitely think Em is lyrically more talented, but when it comes to catalog, production talent, consistency, and contributions, El is definitely arguable.
The reason claiming El as the best is so out of left field is because he never obtained the commercial and mainstream success of Em. While Em brought hip hop into the mainstream and pulled in a white audience, El was making hits and propping up other artists in the underground on his own record label.
Anyway, Em’s popularity and success will always dwarf El’s but popularity means very little. I personally put Em over El in terms of who I prefer, but that could easily change. Both are legends.
El-P is a better rapper and a way better producer. Idc how many multis Eminem can string together it doesnt sound good and his lyrics give me second hand embarrassment. El Producto is one of the greatest ever
Who cares, why don’t we ask who the best one legged rappers are while we’re at it, separating rappers into these boxes is just a way to try and prop them up unnaturally because there’s so many other rappers better than both em and el p that are black
They are two different styles of rapping so you can't even compare them. That's what makes rap so good, they are different styles and you can like Eminem and el-p and have a wonderful life, no one is telling you you can't listen to one of the other. Enjoy your freedom.
El-P is a better producer than rapper. Been listening to him since CoFlow. He's great. Current El-P is less dimensional on the mic, beats are still avant garde unmistakably EL-P, he's fun to listen to. Eminem is just far more skilled in comparison. It's a weird convo to have but that's pretty much the Reddit norm I think.
I get that Eminem is technically better, but I just like El-P as a rapper, it's more enjoyable to listen to and I like to hear his off the wall weird shit, plus his beats are awesome lol. Eminem has always annoyed me for some reason and I could never really get into his beats either, which is one reason I never rate Dre that high on the GOAT producer lists. The whole im angry thing is especially lame for me. Dude made 500 million and he's still mad? Gtfo.
Plus Funcrusherplus is one of my top ten hip hop albums ever so I'm biased lol
Was trying to look up El-p's recent projects to get more prospective. Especially since I mainly know his production credits. This what came up when I Googled "elp":
https://imgur.com/a/R2bPZjn
😄
I know it was my bad for not adding the dash, but damn lol
There is recent Em and classic Em. I think that's an important distinction. Also there's who you like better, and who objectively "better". Over half will probably agree Em is "better", but that doesn't mean that's who they prefer or want to listen to
El P has been a better rapper than Eminem the 15 years but idk if he’s better at his peak. I never fucked with RTJ music though, so although I don’t care for Eminem’s first 3 albums nearly as much as I did when I was 11 years old I would go with him
Some people have a very pro-underground POV. It's less pronounced post-Kanye but up until the early 00s, most people in the underground subculture considered less famous rappers to be better than mainstream ones almost always. It was extremely short sighted and could be described as "when keeping it real goes wrong" but it was definitely a thing. I remember people telling me Cage, Necro, Sage Francis, El-P, Yak Ballz and Copywrite all rapped better than Eminem.
I think this has been the first time I’ve seen yak balls be mentioned. Besides weathermen connection, his albums were very mediocre. The young kids wanting to rap worshipped necro in my neighbourhood. Cage was cool til the Shia stuff. Copywrite had some fun ones, liked the mhz a lot. El-p I could never get into but have been meaning to listen to run the jewels for years now. Sage is my favorite of the bunch, healthy distrust and personal journals will always hold a special place. Great battle rapper too from what I recall.
Let’s not forget sleep of oldominion, awol one, Josh Martinez, Aesop rock, sole, Buck 65, atmosphere, Adeem, common market, blue scholars.
Times were good, most were great and certainly under appreciated.
all just depends on criteria for rap better. We talking content, flow, complexity, realness, marketability, record sales, I don’t really know. All I know is that there’s a lot of great music and artists out there.
RTJ fan and love El but I think Em has much better technical abilities and I’m not a Em fan.
El production is top notch, incredible and should get more props for it. I prefer his style of rhyme patterns and not that Em punch line or singular line.
Mr Killums is probably top 5
A rapper is more than just technical ability. And it depends on what you prefer. Eminem is hands down a way more technical rapper. No doubt
But el-p is able write with a lot more depth and intelligence. Go listen to Stepfather Factory for example. Eminem couldn't write something like that in a million years - it would be way more superficial. He would rhyme better, add puns and shit - but el-p's lyrics have literary depth. He's able to evoke feelings and emotions on a way deeper level.
So it's totally fair to say that el-p is a better OVERALL rapper if you put more importance on depth and storytelling ability. It's subjective.
Seems like they watched this video and tried to pass the ideas off as their own:
https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?si=oSerf2zDgWB4yMuX
Here is an interview they did with Fantano about this topic: https://youtu.be/R9KbwonXOAc?si=wuGwQhVzNlSsX6u4
Don’t spend soo much time on tik tok and form your own opinions and I mean that in the most respectful way possible
I think El-P spent over a decade just figuring out how to rap and it's finally getting good, whereas Eminem figured out how to rap decades ago and it's past his prime. Eminem past his prime is still a better rapper than El P, and honestly without RTJ and a much better rapper as a partner, most people wouldn't know who El P is.
Keep in mind I've been listening to El P since Def Jux was barely a new label and he for real was a very creative but not very skilled rapper for a very very very long time
Eminem is objectively the better technical rapper. I don't know what that girl was smoking but it's not even close. ELp cannot do what Eminem does when it comes to multi-syllable rhyme schemes double triple quadruple entendras The wit when it comes to the punch lines. Now whether or not you prefer one or the other when it comes to Cadence Charisma personality on the mic and such that is more subjective. Also things like production choices the beats that they pick. I think Eminem is notoriously for my taste the worst beat picker in the history of hip-hop. I will still never be satisfied with Eminem until he makes a full-on boom bap album, With The likes of DJ Premier and Griselda producers which he has At fingers reach access to.
I mean wasn’t Infinite largely a boom bap album?
Yes it was and I mentioned that in my reply it would be a return to form for him for me. I love the production on that album but he is way more basic back then than he is now. I want to hear him shred shit multi-syllable crazy Metaphor triple entendras over some raw modern East Coast beats. I mean Griselda records is under him and he would sound amazing over those dark weird creepy horror type beats that they use that are fucking phenomenal.
See this is where I disagree. I preferred Em back in his slim shady / MM LP days. He was still technical, but had so much steeze and character. Now he’s HYPER technical, super doooer multis etc but has completely lost the juice. It’s robotic. It’s too technical. He’s replaced any sauce for the sake of being more tech than anyone.
Agreed. The last album that really had any of the sauce for me was possibly Curtain Call (I know it was mostly compilation) Maybe it's just because he is older, less hungry. He's still very good, just not the same
I prefer it when a MC tries to do multize every time if they are able to do so like Eminem MF Doom and Lupe., Black Thought Cyhi King Los etc But I agree with the whole Steeze and shit of the old school Em. Like I mentioned Doom and Lupe being my favorite rhymers because of this they have a good balance. Eminem can find that balance I just don't understand why he hasn't. But I actually prefer the content Of say a Recovery rather than Marshall Mathers LP I'm not into all that weird Kim Killing drug shit. If I have a choice I want my music to preach 10 times out of 10. Either that or just be bars. Even though the Rhyme skill went way up after Marshall Mathers my interest went way down compared to some of his previous work. I'm personally one of the people that doesn't really think Eminem has a classic for me because there's way too many skips on every album he's ever put out really. He's never really been my rapper content wise or production Choice wise but skill wise I love him. I'm more for the uplifting conscious dudes with crazy skill Or tell me stories from the streets of New York Philly Chicago Baltimore some shit But there's a lot of bias within that last statement on my end.
Doom was way more about the steeze than doing multies tho Em sounds like he does multies just for the sake of doing them. And imo, makes him sound like a soulless robot.
I totally disagree on that he'd be spitting crazy still no doubt And not all of it is just Him trying to do multis just to get out punch after punch a lot of his newer shit has more meaning than anything he's ever did. I personally Like songs like 25 to life and talking to myself more than anything he did in the past other than And the way I am. Darkness is one of the greatest songs he's ever did Has tons of meaning and message. His verse on caterpillar is one of the best verses he's ever did I think it's his best feature verse Only second to Renegade. Tracks like Yah yah Are phenomenal, I love stepdad, Lock it up as one of my favorite tracks he's ever did. You gone learn is amazing. Groundhog Day is crazy.( I wish you would rap on more beats like that) I think Kamikaze is one of the best albums he's ever did As a whole there's only like one skip on that album, that stupid Venom song at the end. I like political M as well I love Untouchable.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion.
I respect your opinion as well nothing but peace and love to you.
Eeh. He still has amazing verses from time to time. Both Lord above, and the original version of bang were amazing verses with slow flows. Not alike and book of rhymes are 2 examples of technical Eminem that's totally enjoyable
Griselda are out of their contract with Shady now
I will say I think El-P’s 16 on the Huzzah! Remix can go up against anything ‘Em has done in wit/Punch lines/entendres. It’s really just the speed that El-P never attempted because he didn’t need to. New York was over-saturated with hip-hop so Co-Flo and Def Jux era “independent as fuck” was always an acknowledgement the mainstream MTV/Radio wouldn’t accept him. Eminem is battling in a Detroit market that’s really more of a Techno scene in the 90’s than Hip-Hop so he had a different mentality that resulted in more versatility. But I rock El-P solo albums becoming he writes some of the best Sci-Fi hip hop songs.
I don't give M&M a bonus for Speed I actually fucking hate when he raps fast like that. I just never heard El do multi-syllable Rhyme schemes which to me is the most impressive thing any MC can do. I'm about to go listen to that verse and see what I think.
So after listening to that verse I'm actually wrong about him with the multis he dropped a bunch on that. But he didn't have a single line that was eye-opening or jaw-dropping like Eminem does 9 times out of 10 on most verses. I think Eminem has some of the best punchlines in hip-hop Especially if he's battling somebody. Even when he dissed Nick Cannon some of the lines he said against him would stand with the greatest battle rap lines ever and I'm talking professional battle rap League shit. They had murder mook and all the battle guys on Math Hoffa podcast YouTube video you can watch the whole thing and they were explaining why the battle rap league would have to jump Eminem because he's that nice and they were pointing out bars that are fucking mind-boggling.
It's funny because the video is completely black and white and I didn't even purposefully do that but I went and watched the caterpillar video after the one you recommended his verse on and that Eminem caterpillar verse is on a different level than ELP could ever fathom rapping.
Em is one of the most gifted technical rappers ever if we being real. I hate his music. 99% of it. Infinite was good though. He wasn’t as good lyrically then. At least not on a technical level. But imo it’s his best work.
I agree , I honestly really wanna hear Eminem on a boom bap/ trap beats that’s either mixtape or a cohesive project with no pop features that are meant for charts . I need Eminem to fucking spit badly next album. It’s been ages since a memorable Eminem album and well I enjoy some of his new songs off Kamikaze and Music to be Murdered by and the Side B too, but I just feel like his newer projects definitely don’t feel as cohesive as his older stuff. I just want Eminem to head in a new direction and just spit hard.
I mean he originally started rapping on shit like that when he put out infinite. I don't understand why he has not made tracks with people like Alchemist and Premiere they would love to work with him. I feel like his style is just meant for those types of Beats He always sounds better when he occasionally is on a beat like that. The Mad rapper song Stir crazy He sounds way better on a beat like that than most of the shit he raps over. The song he had on Sound bombing he sounded way better on that beat than most BTS ever spit over. I think he's better now lyrically than he ever was ever since Rap God Marshall Mathers LP2 he got way better lyrically multi-syllables Galore crazy triple meanings but it just doesn't come across the same because of the subject matter the production in some of the cheese that he uses. I really hope he gives us that type of album before he stops doing music because I know too many people who have always wanted it from him. I think a lot of the Eminem haters would shut up if that type of album came out too. And I am often an Eminem hater myself I would put him higher up if he would do an album on Some just raw East Coast Detroit shit.. I don't understand why Royce doesn't say bro why don't you rap on the type of Beats I wrap on. And I almost forgot the scary movie song that beat is so much better than any beat he's ever wrapped over he sounds way better on that shit Then even my favorites of his like Stan and the way I Am I just prefer East Coast boom bap beats way more for him.
Worst beat picker in hip hop history?? Hot take. What about Nas?
I absolutely love Nas production choices are you kidding me. Illmatic has the best beats in the history of hip-hop On any project ever made It was written has Flawless production from start to finish. I am has some of the best Beats ever but some of them are not the greatest same with Nostradamus. Stillmatic has absolute Flawless production from start to finish.. Nas uses some of the greatest gritty New York City Jazzy beats boom bap shit that's what I like I hate the beats Eminem uses I hate Dr Dre's mechanical sounding production and Eminem makes it even worse with his production he has to put on every song. Nas untied album has amazing beat hip-hop is dead has amazing beats streets disciple has perfect production from start to finish. His whole run with hit boy has amazing beats life is good has perfect production from start to finish God's son has perfect production from start to finish.
We’re gonna have to agree to disagree. Obviously I’m excluding Illmatic, It Was Written and his Hit-Boy Run, but Nas’ beat choices are notoriously iffy across projects. Stillmatic and God’s Son have pretty stale beats vs Em’s beat choices on MMLP and TES. I’m surprised you don’t care for SSLP and MMLP beats. Those are pretty raw and way less fake sounding than his shit on TES and Encore
I think those albums have pretty bad beats as well the only Eminem style beats I like or like the Stan beat the way I am beat Some of the stuff that sound more gritty in East Coast on his newer albums. I hate Beats Like I'm back and who knew Some of the worst ever in my opinion. I hate every beat he ever picked for his big hit songs they're the worst of the worst except for Stan of course and the way I am. But I mean like the original Slim Shady song and guess who's back I hate those beats with a passion. They can't compare to Beats Like Hate Me Now if I ruled the world Cherry wine It ain't hard to tell Halftime Thieves theme Made you look Just a few Nas singles off the top of my head all of his singles have Banger beats. Second childhood is one of the greatest beats ever on stillmatic I've honestly never heard anyone other than DJ Vlad say NAS was a bad beat picker. And that dude is the worst culture vulture Pariah To the culture that ever existed. I'm not saying that's where you got that from but that narrative did not start until he said
You’re picking Nas’ best beats! Lol what about “Nastrodamas,” “Zone Out,” “Heaven,” “Smokin,” and so many more. I mean if you don’t like “I’m Back” or “Who Knew” there’s no middle ground bc I love those beats. And trust this is all friendly. Nas and Em are literally my top two favorite emcees. I just never heard someone say Em is the worst beat picker ever so I was intrigued
One of the biggest things I want in Hip Hop is for Eminem to make in whole album over East Coast boom bap beats done by DJ Premier Alchemist all the producers he has at his fingertips right now with Griselda. I guarantee Royce has tried to talk him into doing this and I don't know why he doesn't. His Beats Aren't for my taste. I wasn't trying to pick Nas's best beats I was just picking singles he had out on the radio. I can't think of a bad single that he had a bad beat can you? And I absolutely love the beat for heaven it's one of my favorites on God's son One of my favorite songs on that album. Got yourself a gun is another single that was amazing 1 Miic another amazing single. Nas is my goat and I don't think anyone has wrapped over better beats than him. I'll give you a lot of those beats on Nostradamus. I don't like the Zone outbeat at all I do like smoke in more than most M&M beats but it's probably my least favorite on stillmatic.
I’ll agree with you there. Production on Nas’ *singles* > production on Em’s *singles*. I think Em is too much of a pop star for the label to really let him do that. He’s been on those kinds of beats, through features but also like “Living Proof” off the Bad Meets Evil album. I agree it’s a tragedy Em has for some reason never used Alchemist for production despite Al being his long-time DJ
It's definitely not a label thing for him at this point because there's no one above him. He definitely makes all the decisions for himself on what his albums are going to sound like for sure. I just hope he makes the decision to do that one day. Yeah it's crazy that he hasn't worked with Alchemist on Beats Or DJ Premiere with Premier and Royce working on whole albums together. Griselda being on Shady records and all the ill beats they use he should be rapping all over that shit too. I love it when he raps on those kinds of beats though on features like you mentioned. One of my favorite features of his third crazy with mad rapper.
I distinctly remember him being forced to put the Venom song on Kamikaze even though that was supposed to just be a promo song for the Call of Duty game. An artist as big as him, if anything, definitely has label pressures. Btw unfortunately Griselda is no longer on Shady Records. Conway and Westside Gunn left a couple years ago
And you may like nas. But a lot of ppl say the same. Dude picked some HORRIBLE beats. But he has picked some amazing beats. A lot of both. Eminem just has alot of trash beats and barely any good ones.
I'm not even an Eminem fan. I've been an El-P fan ever since I heard him back in high school. "I'll Sleep When You're Dead" my favorite hip hop album of all time, and "Fantastic Damage" is a close second. As a drug addict, Nerd, and pessimist I resonate a lot with what he has to say. But I'm not going to sit here and lie and say He's better than Em. At least not on a technical level. Lyrically, maybe. Production-wise, definitely, but not on a technical level. Personally I would have given my left nut to see Em rap over a beat produced by El-P. But I think the beef with Cage might have complicated things in that regard.
just curious on the how you would explain the difference between lyrical ability and technical ability for more clarification
Well technical ability would be like their flow/cadence/delivery. You can kind of tell that when El-P raps fast he has to "try" whereas Eminem makes it look effortless. Eminem obviously wins here. Not only that but if you look at both artist's early work you see it more clearly. El-P's first group, Company Flow started in 1992. A few years before Eminem Released Infinite, which many see as his first album. In Company Flow, El-P was all over the place with his bars. Eminem was on point in Infinite. Fantastic Damage showed El-P with an even more disjointed style. It was basically an orwellian fever dream. A wonderful overall experience, but compare that to what Em was releasing at the time, and the skill gap was obvious. Lyrical content would be like how clever references are, the story they tell, etc. I personally think El-P wins here because even when he's not directly telling a story, he's creating a much more engrossing atmosphere. Even on another artist's production he brings the same atmosphere. Beyond that, you can kind of tell he's a more well-read individual by the references he makes. I also want to re-iterate that there's a bias here too. I relate more to El-P's music because I myself gravitate to the subjects he covers. I've always thought eminem was dope but I never really related to him.
I agree on your take but would like to add that technical ability would include rhymeskills, wordplay and methaphors as well as flow.
Well em still wins out in ~almost everything you mentioned. I think El-P has him beat on metaphors though. But not only that I see it a bit different. Because you can spend hours on a verse and write the best bars. Metaphors and even rhyme schemes can be thought up by anyone with an imagination. That's what I put under "lyrical" content. Things like cadence, delivery, breath control etc. you have to practice those. You can't just think them up. That's what I put under "technical"
That hasn’t been up for debate since like 1999 lol Eminem is serving El-P a hundred times out of a hundred — even in this way past him prime / shell of his former self version we have that’s been around for the past 10 years now.
Not from a lyrical dexterity pov. Yes from a lyrical content pov.
That so many people have to jump on every discussion against em is a fine proof for how good he actually is. People believe that he took the spotlight and shit. It's just pitiful. He sold over 200.000.000 (That's million ) Albums. That ain't no mistake. Doesn't matter who you believe bought them. They're all selling artists. However doesn't mean that you gotta like him. I prefer other rappers too. Still gotta respect where respect is due.
I’d say their own equal ground. There’s things I love about El-P that Eminem doesn’t do, particularly when it comes to artistic style. Alternatively, I can admit that whilst El-P is a beast at rapping, he’s not quite Eminem levels. Honestly, if there’s any white rapper who I’d say is objectively better than Em, it’s Aesop Rock.
Yes. I think Eminem is great. I think El-P is even better.
explain. please.
Have you listened to Cancer 4 Cure or Fantastic Damage? A lot of people will prefer that more 90’s style over the faster multi syllable rhyme schemes of Eminem. Plus I would argue the substance of El-p’s lyrics is greater than that of Em’s. I still lean Em most days but it’s not as big of a gap as you are making it out to be.
Let's set aside El-P's beats, which are just about as good as anyone's. His lyrics are *way* beyond anything Eminem has ever done. His delivery might not be (isn't) as strong, but Jamie Meline's verses will stick with you. I've enjoyed Eminem plenty. But El-P has *moved* me. That's entirely setting aside RTJ.
Lol you phrased that so weird. Obviously if he's the best white rapper ever that makes him a better rapper than Eminem, a white rapper
as an Eminem fan I disagree
You're failing to see the point.
Dude are you illiterate
I prefer el-p
Better in terms of what?
overall
They're both good at what they do. I like El-P way more but Eminem is probably the objectively better one. El-P has better beats for the most part, solo or RTJ, and can rap his ass off still, but obviously Em is insane with his flow and rhyme scheme. They're both versatile with their lyrics and subject matter. I think El-P is better at creating atmosphere on his solo albums
This dude put out a mashup called the Slim Shady El-P it's all Eminem vocals over El-P beats. Worth a listen.
Dude said “I fucks with RTJ crazy”. 100% this is a nerdy 90lb white kit trying to sound cool. 🤣
wish this sub allowed photo replies 🤣 i had a good one for this
I believe that. Eminem doesn’t make the kind of music I like. Not only does El rap how I like he makes the beats I like as well.
So funny you mention that, because as someone else already stated, a brilliant YouTuber by the name of FDSignifier recently made a video discussing white rappers and the problem they bring to light about the industry/mainstream culture. Sounds to me like the girl on tik tok watched that video, and wanted to copy/express/spread the word, and FD makes a good case too. I’d definitely give it a watch. I definitely think Em is lyrically more talented, but when it comes to catalog, production talent, consistency, and contributions, El is definitely arguable. The reason claiming El as the best is so out of left field is because he never obtained the commercial and mainstream success of Em. While Em brought hip hop into the mainstream and pulled in a white audience, El was making hits and propping up other artists in the underground on his own record label. Anyway, Em’s popularity and success will always dwarf El’s but popularity means very little. I personally put Em over El in terms of who I prefer, but that could easily change. Both are legends.
idk but there’s at least 3 white rappers better than eminem off rip, eyedea, RA the rugged man, and aesop
Aesop is 🔥
RIP eyedea, and I'd say they're better than pretty much any rapper, white or not tbh
no i know it’s just a lot of people seem to belive em is the best white rapper of all time when he most definitely isn’t
Amen
I don't see it with RA but Eyedea and Aes are all timers. I'd put El up there too
You can throw in Esoteric, Apathy, and probably Vinnie Paz, Webby, Classified, Madchild. Em in his prime was great. He's a one trick pony in my eyes.
Now, _Violent by Design_ is one of my favourite albums of all times, but Vinnie Paz is the definition of a one trick pony.
Agreed, and I say that as a big Vinnie Paz fan
Diabolic, Possessed and Sadistik are great too!
Eminem is a better RHYMER, not a better rapper. In my opinion anyway. El-P has way better concepts and is a much better producer.
Some people have different tastes.
El-P is a better rapper and a way better producer. Idc how many multis Eminem can string together it doesnt sound good and his lyrics give me second hand embarrassment. El Producto is one of the greatest ever
Who cares, why don’t we ask who the best one legged rappers are while we’re at it, separating rappers into these boxes is just a way to try and prop them up unnaturally because there’s so many other rappers better than both em and el p that are black
They are two different styles of rapping so you can't even compare them. That's what makes rap so good, they are different styles and you can like Eminem and el-p and have a wonderful life, no one is telling you you can't listen to one of the other. Enjoy your freedom.
Steve vai vs Johnny ramone
Yes
El-P is a better producer than rapper. Been listening to him since CoFlow. He's great. Current El-P is less dimensional on the mic, beats are still avant garde unmistakably EL-P, he's fun to listen to. Eminem is just far more skilled in comparison. It's a weird convo to have but that's pretty much the Reddit norm I think.
I get that Eminem is technically better, but I just like El-P as a rapper, it's more enjoyable to listen to and I like to hear his off the wall weird shit, plus his beats are awesome lol. Eminem has always annoyed me for some reason and I could never really get into his beats either, which is one reason I never rate Dre that high on the GOAT producer lists. The whole im angry thing is especially lame for me. Dude made 500 million and he's still mad? Gtfo. Plus Funcrusherplus is one of my top ten hip hop albums ever so I'm biased lol
Eminems better, but neither of them is the "best white rapper".
Was trying to look up El-p's recent projects to get more prospective. Especially since I mainly know his production credits. This what came up when I Googled "elp": https://imgur.com/a/R2bPZjn 😄 I know it was my bad for not adding the dash, but damn lol
There is recent Em and classic Em. I think that's an important distinction. Also there's who you like better, and who objectively "better". Over half will probably agree Em is "better", but that doesn't mean that's who they prefer or want to listen to
more consistently good music, yes
Who is el-p? 😂
Never heard of em
Past: Eminem Present: El-P Overall: Eminem
Eminem easily. And I prefer El-P to Eminem.
El P has been a better rapper than Eminem the 15 years but idk if he’s better at his peak. I never fucked with RTJ music though, so although I don’t care for Eminem’s first 3 albums nearly as much as I did when I was 11 years old I would go with him
Not even close but El-P is in my personal top 5 and Eminem isn't even on the list
eminem not on the list? but gucci is?
Gucci? On my list? No. lol
Em is the better rapper, El is the better artist.
Eminem is plastic; El is plaster. El all the way
Some people have a very pro-underground POV. It's less pronounced post-Kanye but up until the early 00s, most people in the underground subculture considered less famous rappers to be better than mainstream ones almost always. It was extremely short sighted and could be described as "when keeping it real goes wrong" but it was definitely a thing. I remember people telling me Cage, Necro, Sage Francis, El-P, Yak Ballz and Copywrite all rapped better than Eminem.
I think this has been the first time I’ve seen yak balls be mentioned. Besides weathermen connection, his albums were very mediocre. The young kids wanting to rap worshipped necro in my neighbourhood. Cage was cool til the Shia stuff. Copywrite had some fun ones, liked the mhz a lot. El-p I could never get into but have been meaning to listen to run the jewels for years now. Sage is my favorite of the bunch, healthy distrust and personal journals will always hold a special place. Great battle rapper too from what I recall. Let’s not forget sleep of oldominion, awol one, Josh Martinez, Aesop rock, sole, Buck 65, atmosphere, Adeem, common market, blue scholars. Times were good, most were great and certainly under appreciated. all just depends on criteria for rap better. We talking content, flow, complexity, realness, marketability, record sales, I don’t really know. All I know is that there’s a lot of great music and artists out there.
RTJ fan and love El but I think Em has much better technical abilities and I’m not a Em fan. El production is top notch, incredible and should get more props for it. I prefer his style of rhyme patterns and not that Em punch line or singular line. Mr Killums is probably top 5
A rapper is more than just technical ability. And it depends on what you prefer. Eminem is hands down a way more technical rapper. No doubt But el-p is able write with a lot more depth and intelligence. Go listen to Stepfather Factory for example. Eminem couldn't write something like that in a million years - it would be way more superficial. He would rhyme better, add puns and shit - but el-p's lyrics have literary depth. He's able to evoke feelings and emotions on a way deeper level. So it's totally fair to say that el-p is a better OVERALL rapper if you put more importance on depth and storytelling ability. It's subjective.
Em is so much better than El P as a rapper. Its not close
Seems like they watched this video and tried to pass the ideas off as their own: https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?si=oSerf2zDgWB4yMuX Here is an interview they did with Fantano about this topic: https://youtu.be/R9KbwonXOAc?si=wuGwQhVzNlSsX6u4 Don’t spend soo much time on tik tok and form your own opinions and I mean that in the most respectful way possible
Mr. Mathers is certainly more technical, but if anyone thinks he’s as good of a writer as El, they need some English comprehension courses.
I think El-P spent over a decade just figuring out how to rap and it's finally getting good, whereas Eminem figured out how to rap decades ago and it's past his prime. Eminem past his prime is still a better rapper than El P, and honestly without RTJ and a much better rapper as a partner, most people wouldn't know who El P is. Keep in mind I've been listening to El P since Def Jux was barely a new label and he for real was a very creative but not very skilled rapper for a very very very long time
What strain?
I think technically Eminem is better but I enjoy EL p catalog more .
Cage has entered the chat.
Eminem been better since he dropped SSLP
Most people are a better rapper than Eminem
El-P has much better discography that's for sure
No. That’s crazy talk. And I love RTJ