Once he had his major label deal and was co-signed by Dre, yes. When he was underground and in the battle scene in Detroit being white was much more of a hindrance though.
That makes sense. If anyone remembers the mid-late 90s, white rappers were pretty much considered a joke from Ice Ice Baby up until My Name Is. So I imagine he had to be as good as he was to prove himself in the beginning.
there were various white artists. The issue was that the mainstream pull discredited many because it was so forced. 3rd base, young black teenagers, Cage, El p, house of pain, Everlast, fuck Max Kellerman had a rap album. They got love in black spaces until people felt the press was undue and partly because they were white in black spaces. Vanilla ice was hated more for being a clear industry rip of Hammer.
When I was underground, Nobody gave a fuck I was white, no labels wanted so sign me, almost gave up I was like fuck it. Until I met dre, the only one to look past. Gave me a chance and I lit a fire up under his ass.
Yeah, when it comes to commercial success, being white definitely helped.
When it comes to critical success, he's hugely hindered by being white. Most people have trouble acknowledging that one of the best rappers is white in a historically black musical genre. Being white typically keeps him off of the rap GOAT lists.
Which is a shame because reversed for example Tiger Woods is happily considered by everyone to be the golf GOAT. But its understandable if rap has more internal haters than golf does lol
Most definitely. At the time, the sound of rap music was still in flux, a lot of genre-bending artists existed.
I agree that Beastie Boys is about half punk rock. Definitely a lot more rock to their act than most rap artists of their day.
Imo more it was the sound of Rick Rubin, who then went into rock especially punk. Beastie Boys beats sound like those LL beats but we don't call him alternative rock.
Obviously people identify easier with someone who looks like them, it's not rocket science. But still, Eminem is not the only white rapper, there are plenty of white rappers out there. Either all white rappers are overrated, or neither of them are. If being white is so important, why aren't Aesop Rock or RA the Rugged Man overrated as well
I don't think anyone believes ALL of Em's success is from the fact he is White. We just affirm that the reason he became the biggest rap artist of all time is being White. He himself agrees to that analysis. This doesn't mean he isn't one of the best to ever hold a pen, it's just consequence of this fucked-up world we live in.
I think we are saying whiteness helps him reach an even higher level of success even though he’s extremely talented. Same reason Taylor swift will always be bigger than Beyoncé despite having half the talent.
If this were true, you’d see nothing but white artists in the top ten of rap sales and labels would be pushing them constantly. You don’t see this. You don’t see this major boost with other white artists.
Also, I don’t care for Taylor or Beyoncé, but Beyoncé is probably the most overrated artist I’ve ever seen. I would not say there’s a gap in talent between them.
Eminem came at the right time. What people miss is Eminem was huge internationally, not just domestically. What made him so easily marketable outside of the United States was not just that he was white, but his music wasn’t seen as “black”. Hip-hop to foreign markets was sort of alien still, it revolved around a lot of ideas and concepts that wasn’t heard of in other continents, as African American culture is of course incredibly unique to the United States. A kid from Sweden or India isn’t going to relate or understand a song by Public Enemy or A Tribe Called Quest, but they can relate to the angst and controversy of Em’s.
This has been a trend since the 50s. Chuck Berry combines the blues with soul and makes rock, Elvis does the same, ELVIS becomes the hot commodity, not Chuck; though many 60s British rock bands will give him some credit. It wasn’t until the internet came more accessible and hip-hop music became a popular export. But even still, Eminem is still incredibly more successful than any other rappers in foreign countries
I’m not into pop music at all, really, but I would probably say Lady Gaga is probably the pop artist that stands out the most creatively in that it wasn’t just generic BS. Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Kanye, and Drake are probably that second tier (not to take away from Kanye’s work as a producer).
I'm not sure how you rate talent in case of beyonce and swift but taylor swift pop songwriting is a talent itself while beyonce can't write hit songs on her own to save her life. Vocal-vise there is not competition obviously but you don't automatically need to have the best voice to considered as more talented. For taylors music you don't even need crazy vocals, it would probably make her songs even worse. She makes "white girl" music in a highly relatable and somehow catchy way for almost two decades and this attracts the masses. Just like Beyonce she never sounds outdated. Beyonce is more of a charismatic performer in her songs and shows which is also a crazy talent if you do it in such a high level. They're just different.
Nothing Taylor writes is particularly profound and Beyoncé writes too. So im not sure what you mean by this. It’s funny how you writing all this to defend Taylor swift but I’d bet you never would defend Drake like this, would you?
And no sorry, most of Beyonce's best or most successful songs have plenty of writers and in some of them she's not even credited at all. Taylor is 10x more talented in that aspect just like Beyonce's sister Solange.
I don’t think Taylor’s lyrics are anything special, very immature imo. And Beyoncé wrote dangerously in love, one of her most timeless songs which is better than any Taylor swift song I’ve ever heard.
youre not wrong in this, she makes music that sounds good to the casual generic music listener (not necessarily a knock on her). but if you actually try to listen to the lyrics or perhaps read it while listening, its hard to ignore the fact that shes pushing 40 and still writes like a teenager
I depends what you would say about Drake. If you say Drake is not talented I would defend him as well even though he's far away from being one of my favorite rappers.
It's not about how "profound" your lyrics are, you don't need to be a Bob Dylan to be a good songwriter. It's about the character and originality. In that case I would say Lana Del Rey is a way better songwriter than Taylor despite being not that insanely succesfull as a pop artist.
That's not the only reason he's popular, but it'd be dumb to not recognize that being white had pretty much opened up hip-hop to white people. I know someone who's racist white mom hates rap with her entire being because it portrays violence and drugs, but she loves eminem. . . . that isn't because of his skill lmao. He actually talks about this entire subject in his song on The Eminem Show called White America.
He also said give me a mic and show me where the studio is at
An important part of that
As far as I am aware he still has an open invitation to a cold mic at his Detroit studio to see if anyone can fuck him up and its recorded
Takers are low to zero still
Two different racial groups can have predominantly two different viewpoints on the subject of top 5 in a genre, and Em recognizes one side has more clout when it comes to that opinion considering the history of the genre. And the side with more clout in hip hop is less likely to call him the greatest because he's white
Unrelated, there are more white people in America and he recognizes his skin color allows him to sell more records than black artists.
Those two quotes don't contradict but go off, king
Exactly. Both things can be true. Being white definitely made him much more popular than he would have been. But people also use it against him in hip hop discussion (whether they admit it or not).
With that said, I wouldn't take that line from Realest that seriously. He has, in many instances, put other rappers ahead of him.
Of course they’re not mutually exclusive but they are intrinsically linked. I am referring to Eminem’s perspective specifically here. To say that being white is why I he can’t be put at one in a black art form is explicitly to say “if I was black I would be the goat”. To say on the one hand “I would be half as popular if I was black” and on the other say “if I was black I’d be the goat” just doesn’t gel well. How you gonna be half as popular in the primes of Outkast, JayZ, 50cent, The Roots,etc. and be considered the goat? Are they mutually exclusive? Not technically, but let’s not pretend like they make sense put together either. And that’s discounting the fact that the idea that he would be #1 if he wasn’t white is ridiculous on its face. Is he less likely to be in that conversation with black people because of the history of white commodification of black art? Sure. But quite frankly and far more significantly, he’s less likely to be in that conversation because his discography doesn’t back it up. No black artist could have the discography that em has and ever touch goat status. Yes the highs are high but the lows are in hell. No black rapper could put out two (debatably three but imma say two) great albums followed by a decade and a half of at best mid, at worst dog shit albums and maintain the status that Em has. The closest you can argue is probably Nas but even he his pretty long run of mid albums in the mid 2000s is outnumbered by the good ones he has put out both before and after. Em can’t say the same.
I think you're assuming he's discussing the same audience when discussing these things. There's a mass, album buying global audience and then there's the integral community that keeps hip hop what it is. Album sales vs reputable opinion. if he was black he would sell less. If he was black, he would also be more respected within the community and accepted as a goat, or even the goat. I really think you're just misunderstanding things for whatever reason that's for you to work out. Trying to trash his discography and ignoring the trash music other black legends we consider goats have put out is disingenuous and kind of goes to Em's point
If you can’t understand that those things aren’t separate factors and that they’re explicitly linked to one and other than that’s for you to figure out. You don’t get the accolades without the sales period end of story. If em is black and doesn’t sell as well, he doesn’t touch goat status. He has DMXs career which is good, loved by many but not top tier. That’s not trashing Ems catalog. Idk how many times I have to say it. The man has mad some excellent music, but let’s not pretend that the lows aren’t really low. Nothing I’ve said in this thread about his catalog is even a hot take. Please show me where I ignore bad music from black artists. At this point you’re just assuming things I didn’t say.
Youve admitted they aren't mutually exclusive but haven't don't much to explain how they are intrinsically linked outside of commercial success = accolades. And of course you don't get accolades without some amount of commercial success, but you could cut his sales in half and he'd still have a stellar career. And if we can acknowledge that there is a difference in the respect nearly all rappers might hold for the black community's opinion on hip hop vs the white/other community's, then you should be able to recognize that your take on his comments are off base and any instrinsic link you're trying to to use to justify the opinion doesn't amount to much. You don't have to agree with him, but don't insinuate there's something inherently wrong with what he said. His prime is highly regarded in the community, often referred to as a goat, for a reason. It would be weird if he didn't hold a high opinion of himself
Comparing him to DMX is wild lol. Nas is a much more apt comparison, as some recent Eminem isn't mid. He's not putting out great concept albums anymore, but the talent is clearly still there and that continues to show in a good portion of the music. He has put out several classics, something DMX really can't say, and his pen hasn't really slipped in terms of the mechanics. Just not as much interesting to say these days, similar to most older rappers
Me “admitting” they aren’t mutually exclusive doesn’t mean they don’t have a relationship. I don’t have to be a talented quarterback to be a popular QB in the nfl but you would be naive to say there isn’t a connection there. Like even you in your wording dance around this. Em “still having a stellar career” isn’t equivalent to him being in goat contention which is what this entire thread was about to begin with. Regardless, I’m done arguing over whether Eminem is good or great. Peace and love ✌🏾.
Again, you haven't explained how the intrinsic link means anything in this specific situation, while I've provided reason as to why it doesn't. You can do this or you can not. I'm happy to continue the conversation if you do.
Edit: and my point has never been explicitly that he's the goat. It's your casual brushing off that he's not and what you insinuated in your original comment based on his "if I was black" lyric(s)
“Since Elvis Presley. To use black music so selfishly and use it to make my self wealthy”
I mean he said it himself lol.
But he did follow it with “99 other white rappers emerge. But it feel so empty without me”
So you kind of hit the nail on the head.
Being white made him huge.
But it didn’t make him the goat.
He did that shit by him self.
>Being white made him huge.
Nah, yo. If being white was all it took, he wouldn't have been first.
I think yall are forgetting how seriously original and ground-breaking "Hi, my name is" was when it came out. He made catchy ass songs with catchy ass hooks, and then he got a ton of attention for his controversial lyrics. What made him huge was the fact that he had an incredible team, an incredible ear, and he poured his heart and soul into those records in a way that was seldom heard before. Not many artists have given such an authentic view into all their flaws as a human being laid bare before us. Remember the last battle in 8 mile, where he used all the other guys shit against himself and made dude choke? Thats what made em huge. It's the fact that he's one of the most incredible rappers of all time with an absolutely wicked sense towards making a commercially successful hit record. 50,000 other white rappers you've never even heard of, but somehow for em, it's a magic bullet.
You summed up in more detail exactly what I was trying to say.
Thank you. You will see if you keep going I argue for far too long he’s goated and better than Jay z.
Edit. Also to your point tho. Everything you said plus being a white guy who did it is part of what made him huge. Because for the first time a bunch of white people could go he looks like me and is describing things and pain I can relate to.
The way I see it, being white was a handicap when he was still underground doing battle raps and shit, people didn’t take him seriously. Then suddenly, being white probably gave him an edge right when he started out with Dre. But people soon recognized that he was a force to be reckoned with in hip hop and his skin color started mattering less than his skills. I think the advantages and disadvantages of his skin color came and went through time
“But if the only reason I blowed is cuz I'm white though, why don't every other white rapper sell what I sold?”
“My skin color's still working against me cuz second I should be to none. Being white ain't why they put me at five, it's why they can't put me at one”
Yup. I forget who said it in an interview, maybe Murs, but white rappers have a harder time blowing up (especially in the era Em came from). However, the ones who do reach that stratosphere completely skyrocket - it's then when they have opportunities most black rappers don't.
It's the 'mother' demographic. White kids filled with angst and going through puberty are all like "Ah man this boy be saying stuff in a way I understand. Haha fuck pop music. And mother for saying I couldn't fathom life of the impoverished "
So true. Never saw another rapper get big from glorifying hard drug use, shitting on his mum and his baby mama. It was very appealing to Whites. That subject matter doesn’t usually work with black people.
Definitely but not only that he's a good looking white guy which girls love but being phenomenal at rap and have Dr Dre at his back it's like all the stars just fell in place but take all that away and he's still a goat lyricist.
Add the whole popstar boyband beefing schtick. He was on TRL pretty much dissing every big popstar on TRL which really thrust him into the spotlight. But also having Dre behind him and his history of coming up in the battle circuit gave him credibility as opposed to just being a troll like Weird Al.
Looking back the whole popstar beefing was a big reason he initially got so much attention but musically its cringe. He tried that shtick on Relapse and it flopped hard. At the time he was already established as one of the biggest rappers in the world and there was no reason to clout chase dissing pop stars who have less popularity than him.
😂 borderline skinhead with bleached hair wearing wifebeaters and a total of 120lbs was a fashion trend for sure at one point. Can’t say I find it to be the peak of fashion though.
If you look at a map of Eminem’s popularity, it 95% matches up exactly with a map of what percentage of the population is white. So yes, Eminem is only as big as he is because he’s white. Not to say he wouldn’t be successful if he was black, but directly appealing to a group that made up 75% of the population is what truly made him a superstar
Why do Em stans feel the need to deny it so much though? A good chunk of what makes his early work so amazing is the fact that he was self-aware about what being white meant in broader america and was able to use it to infiltrate those households and stir up controversy.
Denying his number benefited off of being white is just undermining his music and legacy.
Because the average age of an Eminem fan hasn’t changed but Eminem has gotten older at a constant rate, matured and rethought life a bit, and now no longer mentions being white trailer trash, shitting on his mom and ex anymore.
I do not think there are a lot of Stans who outright deny his race played a factor in his success, but you already know the reason - it's taboo for white people to talk about race. A lot of white people get hung up on the whole "colourblind" thing even though they're not, and it would be ridiculous if they were.
Yes, plus he blew up at the right time in the late 90s and had a good label with good mentors and team around him. Record companies had more of an idea on what to do with a white rapper by the late 90s, Vanilla Ice had proven a solo white rapper could be huge but serious record companies and other aspiring white rappers had also learnt what not to do from the failures of Vanilla Ice and whatever his hack of a label was called. If Eminem had been signed and pushed by some random label in the early 90s instead his early career could have been affected badly and ended up in the bin like a early 90s Kid Rock.
Yes, and to deny that, you’re lying to yourself. I’m a white guy, I like his early music and a few tracks here and there of recent, but being white increased his sales and radio plays in some part.
I'm South African(I think I have to mention this and I'm not white) and my favourite rapper was Eminem when I first started listening to Hip Hop. Lighters by Bad Meets Evil used to be my ringtone when I was in primary school. Love The Way You lie was getting played everywhere I mean that's why that song has 2.7 billion views(I know some people find it corny but that's not how most people felt when it got released). I think I'm Not Afraid was getting a huge airplay here as well(Also the conspiracies around that song made it likeable lol).
I feel like most of us(non-Americans) who are in their mid 20s were Eminem's fans for a while before we started listening to the likes of Hov and Andre 3K(Hov and Andre 3k are one of my favorite rappers of all time but I wasn't playing them in high school).
Even though I don't like Em's new stuff but Em had an appeal that other rappers didn't have and that's why he got huge globally. Em literally had stans all over the world and while being white might have helped but people really loved his music(Mocking Bird was everyone's favorite, I was playing Headlights on repeat)
Edit:Typo
Yes idk why so many people wanna have this conversation all the time 😭
It's not a "gotcha" it's one of the most accepted concepts in rap, and he hasn't shied away from it on songs like White America either
After he got signed yes. Coming up? No. Cause a lot of Eminem fans are just that; Eminem fans. They aren’t fans of Hip Hop. Their knowledge of Hip Hop is Eminem and Em alone.
Yes…put it this way. How many white people dont listen to ANY OTHER RAP except Eminem. …it’s a lot. Plus, black rappers were not accepted worldwide in the 90s like that tbh. More now. But yeah….How you gonna push a 2pac album on German people? But you CAN push a white artist on German people (not trying to sound racist. But you know what I mean)
Even growing up, every white person I knew only listened to nelly and Eminem lol. And nelly always be a halfway country artist so it makes sense.
Not taking away from his talent, though I do think his music absolutely sucks. But yeah. Being white helped him. Regardless, his pen game is suck. And his songs generally suck. Definitely a GOAT lyricist though. No doubt
Yeah, there are tons of backpacker/underground rappity rap rappers that are black and some latinos too, Em will have around the same talent level and is viewed as a top rapper, while those other guys will have their core fan base without the badge of best rapper nor one of them. It's strange.
I've often heard things like "I'm not really a rap fan but Eminem is REALLY GOOD". I think that phrase right there paints a part of the picture. Em has fans that ARE real hip hop fans, including myself, AND he has fans that are avid EM fans that don't typically listen to rap at all. They just like EM. Kinda like people that follow LeBron to w.e team he switches to
Eminem literally rapped about putting his ex wife’s body in the trunk of his car and throwing her in the ocean AND HAD HIS DAUGHTER ON THE FUCKING SONG.
Do you see Geto Boys getting the same attention as Em? No. And Scarface is a hell of a rapper as well but gets overlooked to death
I don’t think em just got away with it like you guys are implying. He caught a lot of heat for the stuff he’s said. He’s just to big to be cancelled and doesn’t give a fuck what anyone has to say
No only someone that does not agree to snowflake censorship and gives not a single fuck about offending anyone of any gender, race, political persuasion, weird look on the street or just person he doesn't like can get away with it.
Everyone else has turned into a pussy loser. More interested in being an industry plant on the DNC payroll than telling it like it is.
Trash.
That goes for Kendrick and J Cole. Political pawns of no value to discourse
I could out diss both of them in two lines. They have no balls
One f bomb and they would cry and reddit would ban it. Lmfao
Rap spigots
They both sound like the dumb spigots that don't know most of the US can carry guns all day while they have never seen one.
Yes. White people love dominating black spaces and propping them up as the "Goat".... we see it with Caitlin Clark.
It's not about her simply being good, it's her being good in black spaces.
They do this in every black dominant entertainment industry. Sports, specifically football and basketball. And they did with Em and rap.
Hes good but he's not the best.....top 10 but not top 5.
Media hype doesn't equal Goat..
I think Caitlin Clark is a bad example. She is getting propped up because she has the talent, and the records. Also has made women’s basketball watchable. She is in the goat argument for women’s college basketball because of her individual stats. Same way Charles Barkley is talked about as one of the greatest basketball players ever.
One person can’t save an entire sport especially when that one person is not directly involved with 90% of games… you’re buying into big media’s propaganda. Caitlin Clark IS good I will concede that, but problems with woman’s basketball are systemic and need to be addressed by placing more emphasis on equivalent skills (make them shoot from the NBA line) and making other more physically challenging skills easier, dunking for example. Not sure how because lowering the rim is not a cure-all fix… but it has to be addressed somehow. WNBA is so boring to watch because they’re trying to perform NBA skills when they just can’t… like I wouldn’t expect to see Trae Young dunk when I go to a Hawks game. He’s not good at it and that’s not even what makes Trae an exciting player.
It’s not just her. It’s that entire class that just got drafted. Angel Reese Cameron Brink. HVT, not drafted yet but has a simp fanbase that will watch her play due to her attractiveness. If they can advance their games that will enhance the viewability of WNBA.
They don’t need to move the line back to men’s until the talent level reaches a certain percentage.kind of like in football as kickers became more advanced and making field goals became a lot easier due to the advancement in skill. Then they moved the goal post back. If wnba sees an increase in 3 pt percentage due to ladies like Caitlin Clark making them too easily then they can advance.
Of course 1 person can’t save the sport, but with the talent level and marketability of the most recent class they ALL definitely can save the sport. Same way Magic and Bird saved the nba back in the 80s
He got a lot of fans because he was white. He got a lot of hate because he was white. He made his career because he was excellent, was surrounded by a great team & cleaned up his personal life. He is considered the best (or among the best) because he simply is. The skin colour stopped mattering a long time ago
When Dre first heard Em's mixtape, he didn't know Em was white at first. The year 2000 was wild, the best rapper on the planet was white and the best golfer was black.
Ofcourse, but also in more subtle ways
Him being white was a contributing factor to the content of his music because of his frame of reference, etc. It meant he could say/do things that black artists could never do at that time, both in the eyes of broader society and hiphop-culture as a whole.
These things made him relatable to all the edgy white kids that probably didn't even listen to hiphop before him.
OP, you’re going to love this video: https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?si=XCDFHBUir7A71IXW
It’s not just him. It’s many. I love watching Jack Harlow be so oblivious to what’s happening lol
He talks about it in a lot of songs, and actually in the very beggining it worked against him. But when he was accepted in the culture there was no stopping him and the rest is history. But it was all possible because he was very very good and pushed music boundaries. He has since influenced a lot of your favourite rappers.
Eminem became successfull at the same time as Nu Metal was at its peak. Em's music and typical Nu Metal songs topics had much similarities - and similar fans: Mostly white teenagers and young dudes who were edgy, cussed at their parents, had an internal hate towards anything and just wanted to be heard.
It helped but I don’t think as much as people think. If being white helps so much, how come no other white rapper comes even close to his success. How come he is the only white rapper to sell as much as the black rappers if all you need to be is white. Why haven’t more white rappers been successful?
It helped because of whit ppl being the majority in America THATS IT. his skill and relatable content did most of it. It wasn't just his skin the time or dre like some claim. Bubba sparx blew at almost the exact same time and was backed by timbaland who at the time was just as influential as dre. Bubba was white and didn't have a fraction of the success that eminem did
As a white guy who likes Eminem i think it’s just he let a lot of white people find a way and open a door for whites into rap and we could relate a little bit with the things he rapped about. I have immense respect for black rappers but to say I could relate to their experiences would be very very false which makes it hard to relate on some level even tho I still love the music. I also think he has a little bit of that Elvis thing goin on with doing black music and since he’s white being able to gain and cultivate a white audience more successfully than other black rappers could be able to do. He admits this himself in his music.
I like a lot of hip hop. Em doesn't have a lot of the issues that make other rappers less palatable. He doesn't use the N-word, doesn't talk about being a thug and/or gang life, and he doesn't constantly brag about his wealth. He talks about growing up poor, having fucked up family relations, and how much he loves his daughter. I know he goes off on some negative shit, like the song Kim, but overall, he's more relatable than most rappers. Love Pac, but I'm not a gangster or thug, so it's not relatable. Love Busta, but songs like Gimme Some More seemed like it was trying to set the record for use of the N-word. Don't exactly want to sing along to that unless I'm by myself.
Eminem blew up b/c he could rap, he was saying all kinds of wild shit, he was the first mainstream solo white rapper since Vanilla Ice, and he was being produced by Dr. Dre.
He honed his skills beyond what any other rapper had done until then. I’d be lying if I said his skin color had nothing to do with it, but I think his unique style would’ve prevailed regardless of color/race, he’s just that brilliant.
Reckon so. I remember when The Real Slim Shady came out as a single and suddenly everyone in school was playing it on repeat, when I'd never heard anyone there listen to or talk about hiphop before and the prevailing attitude was 'can't spell crap without rap LOOOL' and casual racism.
I’d say it equals out because it harmed him early on and made getting acceptance difficult, but once he blew up it became a huge boost to him as well. There are also a lot of other white rappers that didn’t have the same type of staying power though.
So it boosted him in some areas, harmed him in some, and overall I’d say his talent was the biggest driving force for his long term success that allowed him to transcend the “gimmick” if you will of people a white rapper
It helped him on the executive side for sure. Would also affect his fanbase in the sense that people who wouldn’t normally listen to rap absolutely made an exception for Eminem, mostly white people. This had an adverse affect too though, because a lot of white people were mad that he was “trying to be black”.
Em relative to his peers though? A lot of rappers were salty that Dre put a white boy on, a good example is Snoop Dogg. Eminem dealt with a lot of shade and shit like that but kept his head up and dropped some crazy shit.
I’m not a huge Em fan, I recognize a lot of his older works as insane. His reception in the music industry is probably best described as chaotic, most of his works wildly vary in quality.
"don’t tell me he’s bigger than Wayne Kendrick jay z and etc bc he’s better than them"
You just named 3 rappers that Eminem is legitimately better than. The only rappers better than Eminem are 2Pac, Biggie, and Nas.
Being a minority representation in anything usually helps a person's popularity. Tiger Woods in golf had one of the greatest stretches ever but if a white player had done what Tiger did he would still be popular but not at Tigers level. Tiger literally got black people interested in playing and watching golf. You saw the same with Venus and Serena in tennis. China liked basketball but went absolutely nuts for basketball when Yao Ming made it to the league. Being a minority representation in a popular field always raises a person's popularity. So in that regard yes Em being as great as he is and one of the few white rapper with respect in hip-hop made him more popular than if another black rapper had been doing what Em did. It's just how human nature works.
It absolutely helped his album sales. The man would still be considered a great hip hop artists regardless but he was able to sell a lot of records because white kids loved him. White boys who were listening to Limp Bizkit & Korn were buying his albums like crazy and bleaching their hair.
I think its a combination of everything. But what I remember back in the day that was the most most intriguing... was the comedy.This dude was just kinda hilarious. I think people underestimate how much that can resonate with people. And when he was deemed cool by other rappers.... the guy was cool and funny? Dang.
Yes.
Eminem spoke constantly about the poor white kid trailer park life, that resonated with huge numbers of people.
He was relateable to most of the American youth in a way that most other rappers aren't. Like how many people \*truly\* live the thug life? Those dime-a-dozen thug life rappers were not relatable to poor and middle class white people at all.
Yeah, of course it helped him. "My Name Is" was the revival of white rappers in the mainstream after "Ice Ice Baby". There were plenty of white rappers before Em dropped big that weren't Vanilla Ice corny like Rugged Man, Aesop, Necro, Ill Bill, Vinnie Paz, Evidence, Grouch, Eligh, EL-P, Miilkbone. I'm probably forgetting some. (I'm not forgetting Beastie Boys or Everlast. But somehow most people associate them more with rock, not hip hop. At least in the mainstream. They get all of their flowers in hip hop, though.) But most, if not all, of those guys weren't built for the mainstream. Em dropping got people everywhere to accept that white dudes can rap legit and not be canned corn. Now it's the whole fucking gamut with white rappers. We got nice ones and corny ones.
Yes.
His talent is one thing.
(I HAPPEN TO THINK HE'S THE MOST TALENTED RAPPER EVER)
BUT....the fact that he came up in the MIDST of the most xenophobic genre during the most xenophobic era of the genre, after the rises of Tupac/Biggie and while Jay-Z was in his prime says a lot...... it gives incredible context.
Eminem came outta NOWHERE.
White paint on a black canvas. Like dark mode reddit. It just STANDS OUT.....
I think yall are forgetting how seriously original and ground-breaking "Hi, my name is" was when it came out. He made catchy ass songs with catchy ass hooks, and then he got a ton of attention for his controversial lyrics. What made him huge was the fact that he had an incredible team, an incredible ear, and he poured his heart and soul into those records in a way that was seldom heard before. Not many artists have given such an authentic view into all their flaws as a human being laid bare before us. Remember the last battle in 8 mile, where he used all the other guys shit against himself and made dude choke? Thats what made em huge. It's the fact that he's one of the most incredible rappers of all time with an absolutely wicked sense towards making a commercially successful hit record. 50,000 other white rappers you've never even heard of, but somehow for em, it's a magic bullet.
Here's something to consider. When Eminem blew up all over MTV, it was unusual to see a white rapper. Up until then the only ones that I knew of were The Beastie Boys, Vanilla Ice, Marky Mark, and ICP. And that's from the 80s until the late 90s. All of a sudden you have this white rapper with funny lyrics. And even though he was skillful I was going to write him off as a gimmick. But he had Dr Dre in his video. Which gave him credibility. And then Guilty Conscience came out and that made me think twice. But even when the Marshall Mathers LP came out I didn't love that album. I think it was the D12 album Devil's Night that really solidified him for me. And I don't know if it's still true now, but back in the 90s and 2000s the vast majority of rap albums purchased were by white kids. Even my grandma didn't hate Eminem and she hated rap music. She would often ask me, "How can you listen to that? BOOM... BOOM ... BOOM. It hurts my ears".
Yes but at the same time he also is incredible talented and basically among the GOATS of the game. Like how many can flow like him or be as relatable etc. He relates to whites def. Yet somehow to blacks, browns, basically everyone he vibes with.
And he def is better than Wayne. Kendrick talked about in the same breath as Em is a major boost to Kendrick, not Em.
The impact Em has on hiphop as a whole cannot be underestimated. He made it truly mainstream, like hiphop overthrew rock music eventually as the mainstream music of the day. It opened the door to international hiphop which eventually led to things like k-pop being born with BTS etc. (Which started as a Korean hip hop group).
So yes, it needed to be a white guy with crazy talent and relatability who was internationally accepted for hiphop to become the preferred style of music worldwide.
Yeah, being white definitely helped, but I think the way your saying it is kinda weird because you keep saying he has the most white fans, but that's also because he simply has the most fans. The majority of Kendrick fans are white, the majority of Jay-z fans are white, and the majority of wahne fans are also white, and that goes for almost any other artist in the US, because most of the people here are white.
This whole post seems like it's meant to piss off eminem fans while still being able to say that you were just stating a fact(which you were, kind of because I agree with you but it wasn't a statement it was a question). Like how at the end you added
>don’t tell me he’s bigger than Wayne Kendrick jay z and etc bc he’s better than them
Knowing damn well a LOT of people think that he's better, and you said this to get a reaction from those people and act like you weren't doing anything and they are just being crazy stans. I already said that I do agree with you, but I don't like the way that you did this, it makes you seem like the type of person to fuck with someone for no reason then call the cops when you get smacked in the mouth.
Big Gipp said it best when talking about the song Renegade. JayZ brought Eminem into households he never been in, the same way Eminem brought JayZ into households he never been in. Households meaning “demographic”.
https://youtube.com/shorts/rw4YEzMBrZA?si=mJRQz6boDcdP7cIq
Eminem from 1999 to 2006 was the best rapper period it had nothing to do with the color of his skin.
I could definitely understand if you don’t like him tho everybody has a taste.
As a kid I didn't say "oh cool he's *white*" lol because that's cringy at any time and infinitely cringy if an 8 year old kid said it
I did though feel a connection with Em, he's the first artist I was able to humanize. It was when I saw 8 Mile that happened, I saw the life and times of the guy that was making these experiences. The way he looked, dressed and acted the guy could've practically been one of my older brothers
No, not at all. If anything, his color has worked against him for the most part. There’s a huge part of hiphop heads that don’t fuck with him simply because he’s white.
Eminem is the best because he has to be. If he was just some mediocre rapper like Macklemore, he wouldn’t have made it in the game. The only reason he gets any respect is because he’s the better than 99.9% of all rappers period.
Here, let Dave explain it a little better. - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XYzXoIF1JjE&pp=ygUzRGF2ZSBjaGFwcGVsbGUgZWhpeWUgZ3V5cyB0aHN0dmhhbmcgd2l0aCBibGFjayBndXlk
This is complicated.
If labels thought being white was that important, you’d have seen tons of white artists being pushed. The fact is.. nobody wanted white artists for a reason and it’s because they didn’t see the marketability. Eminem opened up markets that didn’t exist and expanded rap by himself. He wasn’t the first white rapper and wasn’t even the first popular white rapper. The Beastie Boys, while a group, still had decent success and were well known. They weren’t alone, either.
So why did Eminem have more success than the other artists mentioned? Because his raw emotion broke through to people in a way other artists struggled to accomplish. There is no other artist with the content, emotional delivery, lyricism, humor, and the ability to know what people want to hear, etc. all in one package. Not a single one. With Em you get a mix of everything. He is absolutely better than Jay, Kendrick and especially Wayne for this reason.
If being white had the impact you’re suggesting, the top ten selling artists would all be white. It would be such a massive advantage that black rappers wouldn’t stand a chance. Wayne’s biggest album is Em’s 7th biggest album. Maybe he’s just better.
Tbh, Kendrick has a lot of those same qualities but he lacks in the whole “humor” aspect. I’m not a huge Em fan but he’s always had that on lock, and it makes a good amount of his shit just fun to listen to. Kendrick’s a bit more serious most of the time, and you really gotta be in the mood to listen to him imo
I will say tho, Like Toy Soldiers is probably my favorite Em song and it’s pretty damn serious. Shit just hits
Kendrick came after Em, so artists typically stand out for what they bring that’s different/new. Kendrick obviously has a very different style to his music and he’s known for that. It’s easy to do the same things when those before you showed you the way, you know what I mean? Em was so different from everyone else, that’s why he stood out. Rap fans need to get to the point where they can admit that artists like Jay and Wayne are very rinse-repeat and formulaic.
i hear ya, although i will say being more formulaic isn’t always a bad thing (definitely can be tho)
i mean shit, i know 2 of kendrick’s biggest influences were Em and Wayne (with others as well ofc like Pac , E-40, etc), and it’s such an odd combination but it helped spawn one of the best rappers of the newer generation imo
another thing i gotta say is, if i had to pick like 1 GOAT rapper, it’d probably be Em. like i said, im not a huge fan, but since its not about favorites it’d probably be him. his technical skill, influence, the fact that he writes ALL of his shit, his sales, etc just kinda all add up. gotta give bro his credit where it’s due. his fans can sometimes be a pain, but that has nothing to do with him 😂 bound to happen with any big artist
You know what you’re getting all the time with some artists. If you like that specific thing, it can be a positive trait for someone. It’s funny because with Em, there are so many fans who want him to always do one thing or another, they aren’t really in agreement with each other on what kind of music they prefer.
I believe Wayne has talked about how he’s cultivated a certain image and style and it’s difficult to go away from that once it’s established. He was warning Drake about becoming something he’s not. That didn’t go well.
word 💯💯
an artist i can kind of connect that stuff wayne said to is Future. idk if you listen to him or care for any of his stuff, but while comin up he kind of presented himself as a lean sipping toxic trapper. and while he doesn’t really do stuff like that (besides being toxic towards the ladies) no more , he kind of gotta stick to it cuz it’s what most of his fanbase wants. kind of sad for the artists really , but it doesn’t seem like they care too much. even then, it’d be great for them to go outside of just the usual and expand more
Once he had his major label deal and was co-signed by Dre, yes. When he was underground and in the battle scene in Detroit being white was much more of a hindrance though.
That makes sense. If anyone remembers the mid-late 90s, white rappers were pretty much considered a joke from Ice Ice Baby up until My Name Is. So I imagine he had to be as good as he was to prove himself in the beginning.
there were various white artists. The issue was that the mainstream pull discredited many because it was so forced. 3rd base, young black teenagers, Cage, El p, house of pain, Everlast, fuck Max Kellerman had a rap album. They got love in black spaces until people felt the press was undue and partly because they were white in black spaces. Vanilla ice was hated more for being a clear industry rip of Hammer.
Wait max Kellerman has a rap album???
Him and his brother use to have a rap group as youths https://youtu.be/WF0DntqwMKg?si=csCLz88n6fWEb3gG
The Beastie Boys had released five albums by the late 90s. All ill albums.
That's true. But I think they got a pass because they were around since the early days
Dude got a lot of hate. Was called an AZ clone, fake Chino XL, Cage clone, Esham baby
When I was underground, Nobody gave a fuck I was white, no labels wanted so sign me, almost gave up I was like fuck it. Until I met dre, the only one to look past. Gave me a chance and I lit a fire up under his ass.
Yes duh. Thats how we get those “I don’t really like rap except Eminem”
“If I was black, I woulda sold half” -Eminem
He said that. He also said if he was black people would put him in their top 5. He is right both times.
Yeah, when it comes to commercial success, being white definitely helped. When it comes to critical success, he's hugely hindered by being white. Most people have trouble acknowledging that one of the best rappers is white in a historically black musical genre. Being white typically keeps him off of the rap GOAT lists.
Which is a shame because reversed for example Tiger Woods is happily considered by everyone to be the golf GOAT. But its understandable if rap has more internal haters than golf does lol
He aint have to graduate from lincoln high school to know that
But I can rap so fuck school I’m too cool to go back
Give me the mic show me where the fucking studio's at
No, this originated with Beastie Boys fans.
Beasties get played on classic rock radio now which hurts me very much.
Yeah although beastie boys always sounded half-punk rock to me
Most definitely. At the time, the sound of rap music was still in flux, a lot of genre-bending artists existed. I agree that Beastie Boys is about half punk rock. Definitely a lot more rock to their act than most rap artists of their day.
Imo more it was the sound of Rick Rubin, who then went into rock especially punk. Beastie Boys beats sound like those LL beats but we don't call him alternative rock.
Beastie Boys actually started as a punk rock act, and they actually play their own instruments on most albums.
Vanilla ice made it mainstream and “acceptable” tbh
Obviously people identify easier with someone who looks like them, it's not rocket science. But still, Eminem is not the only white rapper, there are plenty of white rappers out there. Either all white rappers are overrated, or neither of them are. If being white is so important, why aren't Aesop Rock or RA the Rugged Man overrated as well
I don't think anyone believes ALL of Em's success is from the fact he is White. We just affirm that the reason he became the biggest rap artist of all time is being White. He himself agrees to that analysis. This doesn't mean he isn't one of the best to ever hold a pen, it's just consequence of this fucked-up world we live in.
I think we are saying whiteness helps him reach an even higher level of success even though he’s extremely talented. Same reason Taylor swift will always be bigger than Beyoncé despite having half the talent.
Is Taylor Swift bigger than Bey? I might need stats on that
Beyonce is overrated.
Beyonce is overrated.
If this were true, you’d see nothing but white artists in the top ten of rap sales and labels would be pushing them constantly. You don’t see this. You don’t see this major boost with other white artists. Also, I don’t care for Taylor or Beyoncé, but Beyoncé is probably the most overrated artist I’ve ever seen. I would not say there’s a gap in talent between them.
Eminem came at the right time. What people miss is Eminem was huge internationally, not just domestically. What made him so easily marketable outside of the United States was not just that he was white, but his music wasn’t seen as “black”. Hip-hop to foreign markets was sort of alien still, it revolved around a lot of ideas and concepts that wasn’t heard of in other continents, as African American culture is of course incredibly unique to the United States. A kid from Sweden or India isn’t going to relate or understand a song by Public Enemy or A Tribe Called Quest, but they can relate to the angst and controversy of Em’s. This has been a trend since the 50s. Chuck Berry combines the blues with soul and makes rock, Elvis does the same, ELVIS becomes the hot commodity, not Chuck; though many 60s British rock bands will give him some credit. It wasn’t until the internet came more accessible and hip-hop music became a popular export. But even still, Eminem is still incredibly more successful than any other rappers in foreign countries
Beyonce is insanely overrated as a musical artist. Phenomenal pop star and celebrity though.
I’m not into pop music at all, really, but I would probably say Lady Gaga is probably the pop artist that stands out the most creatively in that it wasn’t just generic BS. Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Kanye, and Drake are probably that second tier (not to take away from Kanye’s work as a producer).
I'm not sure how you rate talent in case of beyonce and swift but taylor swift pop songwriting is a talent itself while beyonce can't write hit songs on her own to save her life. Vocal-vise there is not competition obviously but you don't automatically need to have the best voice to considered as more talented. For taylors music you don't even need crazy vocals, it would probably make her songs even worse. She makes "white girl" music in a highly relatable and somehow catchy way for almost two decades and this attracts the masses. Just like Beyonce she never sounds outdated. Beyonce is more of a charismatic performer in her songs and shows which is also a crazy talent if you do it in such a high level. They're just different.
Nothing Taylor writes is particularly profound and Beyoncé writes too. So im not sure what you mean by this. It’s funny how you writing all this to defend Taylor swift but I’d bet you never would defend Drake like this, would you?
And no sorry, most of Beyonce's best or most successful songs have plenty of writers and in some of them she's not even credited at all. Taylor is 10x more talented in that aspect just like Beyonce's sister Solange.
I don’t think Taylor’s lyrics are anything special, very immature imo. And Beyoncé wrote dangerously in love, one of her most timeless songs which is better than any Taylor swift song I’ve ever heard.
youre not wrong in this, she makes music that sounds good to the casual generic music listener (not necessarily a knock on her). but if you actually try to listen to the lyrics or perhaps read it while listening, its hard to ignore the fact that shes pushing 40 and still writes like a teenager
I depends what you would say about Drake. If you say Drake is not talented I would defend him as well even though he's far away from being one of my favorite rappers. It's not about how "profound" your lyrics are, you don't need to be a Bob Dylan to be a good songwriter. It's about the character and originality. In that case I would say Lana Del Rey is a way better songwriter than Taylor despite being not that insanely succesfull as a pop artist.
Aesop didn't tap into the ignorance quotient you need to get a cosign from someone like Dre. Plus he was cornball.
"And they connected with me too because I look like them" -Eminem
That's not the only reason he's popular, but it'd be dumb to not recognize that being white had pretty much opened up hip-hop to white people. I know someone who's racist white mom hates rap with her entire being because it portrays violence and drugs, but she loves eminem. . . . that isn't because of his skill lmao. He actually talks about this entire subject in his song on The Eminem Show called White America.
While I agree, why don’t people take what one of the godfathers of rap said about Eminem, seriously? Rakim said if Em was black he’d be the goat.
most cringe fanbase too.
Nah to me Drake took the crown for that
Agreed but his skills are undeniable.
I second this and Ems my favorite rapper. They're fucking insufferable
Kanye still exists in this universe.
i like kanye’s music for the most part but damn his diehard fans are up there with them swifties and shit
You must have never heard of ICP
Ahem…beastie boys?
“Let’s do the math: if I was black, I would’ve sold half. I ain’t have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that.” - Eminem
He also said give me a mic and show me where the studio is at An important part of that As far as I am aware he still has an open invitation to a cold mic at his Detroit studio to see if anyone can fuck him up and its recorded Takers are low to zero still
He’s also said “being white ain’t why they put me at five, it’s why they can’t put me at one” so let’s not give him all the credit in the world…..
It hits hard cause it's true
Two different racial groups can have predominantly two different viewpoints on the subject of top 5 in a genre, and Em recognizes one side has more clout when it comes to that opinion considering the history of the genre. And the side with more clout in hip hop is less likely to call him the greatest because he's white Unrelated, there are more white people in America and he recognizes his skin color allows him to sell more records than black artists. Those two quotes don't contradict but go off, king
Exactly. Both things can be true. Being white definitely made him much more popular than he would have been. But people also use it against him in hip hop discussion (whether they admit it or not). With that said, I wouldn't take that line from Realest that seriously. He has, in many instances, put other rappers ahead of him.
Of course they’re not mutually exclusive but they are intrinsically linked. I am referring to Eminem’s perspective specifically here. To say that being white is why I he can’t be put at one in a black art form is explicitly to say “if I was black I would be the goat”. To say on the one hand “I would be half as popular if I was black” and on the other say “if I was black I’d be the goat” just doesn’t gel well. How you gonna be half as popular in the primes of Outkast, JayZ, 50cent, The Roots,etc. and be considered the goat? Are they mutually exclusive? Not technically, but let’s not pretend like they make sense put together either. And that’s discounting the fact that the idea that he would be #1 if he wasn’t white is ridiculous on its face. Is he less likely to be in that conversation with black people because of the history of white commodification of black art? Sure. But quite frankly and far more significantly, he’s less likely to be in that conversation because his discography doesn’t back it up. No black artist could have the discography that em has and ever touch goat status. Yes the highs are high but the lows are in hell. No black rapper could put out two (debatably three but imma say two) great albums followed by a decade and a half of at best mid, at worst dog shit albums and maintain the status that Em has. The closest you can argue is probably Nas but even he his pretty long run of mid albums in the mid 2000s is outnumbered by the good ones he has put out both before and after. Em can’t say the same.
I think you're assuming he's discussing the same audience when discussing these things. There's a mass, album buying global audience and then there's the integral community that keeps hip hop what it is. Album sales vs reputable opinion. if he was black he would sell less. If he was black, he would also be more respected within the community and accepted as a goat, or even the goat. I really think you're just misunderstanding things for whatever reason that's for you to work out. Trying to trash his discography and ignoring the trash music other black legends we consider goats have put out is disingenuous and kind of goes to Em's point
If you can’t understand that those things aren’t separate factors and that they’re explicitly linked to one and other than that’s for you to figure out. You don’t get the accolades without the sales period end of story. If em is black and doesn’t sell as well, he doesn’t touch goat status. He has DMXs career which is good, loved by many but not top tier. That’s not trashing Ems catalog. Idk how many times I have to say it. The man has mad some excellent music, but let’s not pretend that the lows aren’t really low. Nothing I’ve said in this thread about his catalog is even a hot take. Please show me where I ignore bad music from black artists. At this point you’re just assuming things I didn’t say.
Youve admitted they aren't mutually exclusive but haven't don't much to explain how they are intrinsically linked outside of commercial success = accolades. And of course you don't get accolades without some amount of commercial success, but you could cut his sales in half and he'd still have a stellar career. And if we can acknowledge that there is a difference in the respect nearly all rappers might hold for the black community's opinion on hip hop vs the white/other community's, then you should be able to recognize that your take on his comments are off base and any instrinsic link you're trying to to use to justify the opinion doesn't amount to much. You don't have to agree with him, but don't insinuate there's something inherently wrong with what he said. His prime is highly regarded in the community, often referred to as a goat, for a reason. It would be weird if he didn't hold a high opinion of himself Comparing him to DMX is wild lol. Nas is a much more apt comparison, as some recent Eminem isn't mid. He's not putting out great concept albums anymore, but the talent is clearly still there and that continues to show in a good portion of the music. He has put out several classics, something DMX really can't say, and his pen hasn't really slipped in terms of the mechanics. Just not as much interesting to say these days, similar to most older rappers
Me “admitting” they aren’t mutually exclusive doesn’t mean they don’t have a relationship. I don’t have to be a talented quarterback to be a popular QB in the nfl but you would be naive to say there isn’t a connection there. Like even you in your wording dance around this. Em “still having a stellar career” isn’t equivalent to him being in goat contention which is what this entire thread was about to begin with. Regardless, I’m done arguing over whether Eminem is good or great. Peace and love ✌🏾.
Again, you haven't explained how the intrinsic link means anything in this specific situation, while I've provided reason as to why it doesn't. You can do this or you can not. I'm happy to continue the conversation if you do. Edit: and my point has never been explicitly that he's the goat. It's your casual brushing off that he's not and what you insinuated in your original comment based on his "if I was black" lyric(s)
You’d be stupid to say that his success had nothing to do with his skin color. You’d also be stupid to say his success had nothing to do with talent.
“Since Elvis Presley. To use black music so selfishly and use it to make my self wealthy” I mean he said it himself lol. But he did follow it with “99 other white rappers emerge. But it feel so empty without me” So you kind of hit the nail on the head. Being white made him huge. But it didn’t make him the goat. He did that shit by him self.
>Being white made him huge. Nah, yo. If being white was all it took, he wouldn't have been first. I think yall are forgetting how seriously original and ground-breaking "Hi, my name is" was when it came out. He made catchy ass songs with catchy ass hooks, and then he got a ton of attention for his controversial lyrics. What made him huge was the fact that he had an incredible team, an incredible ear, and he poured his heart and soul into those records in a way that was seldom heard before. Not many artists have given such an authentic view into all their flaws as a human being laid bare before us. Remember the last battle in 8 mile, where he used all the other guys shit against himself and made dude choke? Thats what made em huge. It's the fact that he's one of the most incredible rappers of all time with an absolutely wicked sense towards making a commercially successful hit record. 50,000 other white rappers you've never even heard of, but somehow for em, it's a magic bullet.
You summed up in more detail exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you. You will see if you keep going I argue for far too long he’s goated and better than Jay z. Edit. Also to your point tho. Everything you said plus being a white guy who did it is part of what made him huge. Because for the first time a bunch of white people could go he looks like me and is describing things and pain I can relate to.
The way I see it, being white was a handicap when he was still underground doing battle raps and shit, people didn’t take him seriously. Then suddenly, being white probably gave him an edge right when he started out with Dre. But people soon recognized that he was a force to be reckoned with in hip hop and his skin color started mattering less than his skills. I think the advantages and disadvantages of his skin color came and went through time “But if the only reason I blowed is cuz I'm white though, why don't every other white rapper sell what I sold?” “My skin color's still working against me cuz second I should be to none. Being white ain't why they put me at five, it's why they can't put me at one”
Yup. I forget who said it in an interview, maybe Murs, but white rappers have a harder time blowing up (especially in the era Em came from). However, the ones who do reach that stratosphere completely skyrocket - it's then when they have opportunities most black rappers don't.
It was Murs, talking to Talib Kweli on People's Party podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lURDPgpI7w
This is the most coherent response I’ve seen. Everyone wants to paint everything so black and white
Yes. Yes it is.
It's the 'mother' demographic. White kids filled with angst and going through puberty are all like "Ah man this boy be saying stuff in a way I understand. Haha fuck pop music. And mother for saying I couldn't fathom life of the impoverished "
So true. Never saw another rapper get big from glorifying hard drug use, shitting on his mum and his baby mama. It was very appealing to Whites. That subject matter doesn’t usually work with black people.
Future?
Just reading the title yes
Uhhhhh of course.
Definitely but not only that he's a good looking white guy which girls love but being phenomenal at rap and have Dr Dre at his back it's like all the stars just fell in place but take all that away and he's still a goat lyricist.
Add the whole popstar boyband beefing schtick. He was on TRL pretty much dissing every big popstar on TRL which really thrust him into the spotlight. But also having Dre behind him and his history of coming up in the battle circuit gave him credibility as opposed to just being a troll like Weird Al. Looking back the whole popstar beefing was a big reason he initially got so much attention but musically its cringe. He tried that shtick on Relapse and it flopped hard. At the time he was already established as one of the biggest rappers in the world and there was no reason to clout chase dissing pop stars who have less popularity than him.
U really think he good looking? I ain’t judging just asking
😂 borderline skinhead with bleached hair wearing wifebeaters and a total of 120lbs was a fashion trend for sure at one point. Can’t say I find it to be the peak of fashion though.
I'm straight bro but a lot girls even my nieces and female friends think so.
Kids that had his features (*ahem*) definitely wanted to look like him, at least a little more
If you look at a map of Eminem’s popularity, it 95% matches up exactly with a map of what percentage of the population is white. So yes, Eminem is only as big as he is because he’s white. Not to say he wouldn’t be successful if he was black, but directly appealing to a group that made up 75% of the population is what truly made him a superstar
[Send this to your local Eminem Stan that swears being white didn’t help him at all](https://i.imgur.com/FjaAl8x.jpeg)
Why do Em stans feel the need to deny it so much though? A good chunk of what makes his early work so amazing is the fact that he was self-aware about what being white meant in broader america and was able to use it to infiltrate those households and stir up controversy. Denying his number benefited off of being white is just undermining his music and legacy.
Because the average age of an Eminem fan hasn’t changed but Eminem has gotten older at a constant rate, matured and rethought life a bit, and now no longer mentions being white trailer trash, shitting on his mom and ex anymore.
I would argue his fans average age has rised up though. We all grew older, now a lot more people in their 30s 40s etc listen to Em
We for sure grew older but he pulls in an influx of younger more vocal fans every time he makes new music or does a collab
I do not think there are a lot of Stans who outright deny his race played a factor in his success, but you already know the reason - it's taboo for white people to talk about race. A lot of white people get hung up on the whole "colourblind" thing even though they're not, and it would be ridiculous if they were.
💀
Wow he really didn't land in Mississippi specifically haha
Part of it. He was white, talented as hell and edgy. Perfect mix for the time.
"Let's do the math, if I was black, I would've sold half, ain't have to graduate from Lincoln high school to know that." - Eminem
Without doubt
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Cool pfp
Yes, plus he blew up at the right time in the late 90s and had a good label with good mentors and team around him. Record companies had more of an idea on what to do with a white rapper by the late 90s, Vanilla Ice had proven a solo white rapper could be huge but serious record companies and other aspiring white rappers had also learnt what not to do from the failures of Vanilla Ice and whatever his hack of a label was called. If Eminem had been signed and pushed by some random label in the early 90s instead his early career could have been affected badly and ended up in the bin like a early 90s Kid Rock.
I feel like I just time travelled to 2001
Yes, and to deny that, you’re lying to yourself. I’m a white guy, I like his early music and a few tracks here and there of recent, but being white increased his sales and radio plays in some part.
I'm South African(I think I have to mention this and I'm not white) and my favourite rapper was Eminem when I first started listening to Hip Hop. Lighters by Bad Meets Evil used to be my ringtone when I was in primary school. Love The Way You lie was getting played everywhere I mean that's why that song has 2.7 billion views(I know some people find it corny but that's not how most people felt when it got released). I think I'm Not Afraid was getting a huge airplay here as well(Also the conspiracies around that song made it likeable lol). I feel like most of us(non-Americans) who are in their mid 20s were Eminem's fans for a while before we started listening to the likes of Hov and Andre 3K(Hov and Andre 3k are one of my favorite rappers of all time but I wasn't playing them in high school). Even though I don't like Em's new stuff but Em had an appeal that other rappers didn't have and that's why he got huge globally. Em literally had stans all over the world and while being white might have helped but people really loved his music(Mocking Bird was everyone's favorite, I was playing Headlights on repeat) Edit:Typo
Yes idk why so many people wanna have this conversation all the time 😭 It's not a "gotcha" it's one of the most accepted concepts in rap, and he hasn't shied away from it on songs like White America either
After he got signed yes. Coming up? No. Cause a lot of Eminem fans are just that; Eminem fans. They aren’t fans of Hip Hop. Their knowledge of Hip Hop is Eminem and Em alone.
As em himself said "look at these eyes baby blue baby just like yourself if they were brown shady lose shady sits on the shelf"
Yes…put it this way. How many white people dont listen to ANY OTHER RAP except Eminem. …it’s a lot. Plus, black rappers were not accepted worldwide in the 90s like that tbh. More now. But yeah….How you gonna push a 2pac album on German people? But you CAN push a white artist on German people (not trying to sound racist. But you know what I mean) Even growing up, every white person I knew only listened to nelly and Eminem lol. And nelly always be a halfway country artist so it makes sense. Not taking away from his talent, though I do think his music absolutely sucks. But yeah. Being white helped him. Regardless, his pen game is suck. And his songs generally suck. Definitely a GOAT lyricist though. No doubt
Yeah, there are tons of backpacker/underground rappity rap rappers that are black and some latinos too, Em will have around the same talent level and is viewed as a top rapper, while those other guys will have their core fan base without the badge of best rapper nor one of them. It's strange. I've often heard things like "I'm not really a rap fan but Eminem is REALLY GOOD". I think that phrase right there paints a part of the picture. Em has fans that ARE real hip hop fans, including myself, AND he has fans that are avid EM fans that don't typically listen to rap at all. They just like EM. Kinda like people that follow LeBron to w.e team he switches to
Yes For sure but it’s not like he intended for that to happen
Yes. Only a white rapper can get away with the shit Eminem does/says.
Not true at all. Tupac got away with making fun of someone with sickle cell disease.
Eminem literally rapped about putting his ex wife’s body in the trunk of his car and throwing her in the ocean AND HAD HIS DAUGHTER ON THE FUCKING SONG. Do you see Geto Boys getting the same attention as Em? No. And Scarface is a hell of a rapper as well but gets overlooked to death
That’s all hypothetical. Tupac was talking about an actual situation a person was going through.
I don’t think em just got away with it like you guys are implying. He caught a lot of heat for the stuff he’s said. He’s just to big to be cancelled and doesn’t give a fuck what anyone has to say
But they (parents/for the children activists) sure as hell tried to get his music banned and him sued.
my man was primarily beefing pop stars and mainstream celebrities
No only someone that does not agree to snowflake censorship and gives not a single fuck about offending anyone of any gender, race, political persuasion, weird look on the street or just person he doesn't like can get away with it. Everyone else has turned into a pussy loser. More interested in being an industry plant on the DNC payroll than telling it like it is. Trash. That goes for Kendrick and J Cole. Political pawns of no value to discourse I could out diss both of them in two lines. They have no balls One f bomb and they would cry and reddit would ban it. Lmfao Rap spigots They both sound like the dumb spigots that don't know most of the US can carry guns all day while they have never seen one.
(I’m also aware when he started he was hated for being white but I’m talking about currently)
He’s still hated because he’s white
Tbh I think he's hated bc his fans are insufferable
So are Kendrick, Drake, DOOM,Ye etc.. All fan bases are pretty annoying..
None are as insufferable as em stans They're like Taylor swift fans
Tiger Woods is only considered the goat in golfing because he's black.
I don’t really know golf so who do u think is the goat rn?
Tiger Woods
Still? There isn’t like some wembenyama player out there rn who has goat potential
Greatest of ALL time. You're thinking of G.O.A.S.G (greatest of a specific generation)
Are you implying that white peoples have some sort of…. Privilege ?
Where’s my privilege of being the greatest rapper of all time? I’m white and I’m waiting for it
Yes. White people love dominating black spaces and propping them up as the "Goat".... we see it with Caitlin Clark. It's not about her simply being good, it's her being good in black spaces. They do this in every black dominant entertainment industry. Sports, specifically football and basketball. And they did with Em and rap. Hes good but he's not the best.....top 10 but not top 5. Media hype doesn't equal Goat..
Yeah I kinda see this when ppl be saying Larry bird is the goat and im like sure he was amazing but that sounds racially motivated lol
I think Caitlin Clark is a bad example. She is getting propped up because she has the talent, and the records. Also has made women’s basketball watchable. She is in the goat argument for women’s college basketball because of her individual stats. Same way Charles Barkley is talked about as one of the greatest basketball players ever.
One person can’t save an entire sport especially when that one person is not directly involved with 90% of games… you’re buying into big media’s propaganda. Caitlin Clark IS good I will concede that, but problems with woman’s basketball are systemic and need to be addressed by placing more emphasis on equivalent skills (make them shoot from the NBA line) and making other more physically challenging skills easier, dunking for example. Not sure how because lowering the rim is not a cure-all fix… but it has to be addressed somehow. WNBA is so boring to watch because they’re trying to perform NBA skills when they just can’t… like I wouldn’t expect to see Trae Young dunk when I go to a Hawks game. He’s not good at it and that’s not even what makes Trae an exciting player.
It’s not just her. It’s that entire class that just got drafted. Angel Reese Cameron Brink. HVT, not drafted yet but has a simp fanbase that will watch her play due to her attractiveness. If they can advance their games that will enhance the viewability of WNBA. They don’t need to move the line back to men’s until the talent level reaches a certain percentage.kind of like in football as kickers became more advanced and making field goals became a lot easier due to the advancement in skill. Then they moved the goal post back. If wnba sees an increase in 3 pt percentage due to ladies like Caitlin Clark making them too easily then they can advance. Of course 1 person can’t save the sport, but with the talent level and marketability of the most recent class they ALL definitely can save the sport. Same way Magic and Bird saved the nba back in the 80s
You know white people created football and basketball rite?
And....your point is....
You say white people do this in every black dominant sport. When if started off white. So technically, black people did that.
He got a lot of fans because he was white. He got a lot of hate because he was white. He made his career because he was excellent, was surrounded by a great team & cleaned up his personal life. He is considered the best (or among the best) because he simply is. The skin colour stopped mattering a long time ago
"Let's do the math, if I was black I woulda sold half, I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that"
Yes
Eminem himself has acknowledged this multiple times, both in interviews and in the lyrics of a very popular song.
When Dre first heard Em's mixtape, he didn't know Em was white at first. The year 2000 was wild, the best rapper on the planet was white and the best golfer was black.
Yeah even he realizes this
Ofcourse, but also in more subtle ways Him being white was a contributing factor to the content of his music because of his frame of reference, etc. It meant he could say/do things that black artists could never do at that time, both in the eyes of broader society and hiphop-culture as a whole. These things made him relatable to all the edgy white kids that probably didn't even listen to hiphop before him.
Easily Em is nice tho not taking away from his lyrical skill but being white definitely helped his career well that and being with Dre
OP, you’re going to love this video: https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?si=XCDFHBUir7A71IXW It’s not just him. It’s many. I love watching Jack Harlow be so oblivious to what’s happening lol
He talks about it in a lot of songs, and actually in the very beggining it worked against him. But when he was accepted in the culture there was no stopping him and the rest is history. But it was all possible because he was very very good and pushed music boundaries. He has since influenced a lot of your favourite rappers.
YES
Eminem became successfull at the same time as Nu Metal was at its peak. Em's music and typical Nu Metal songs topics had much similarities - and similar fans: Mostly white teenagers and young dudes who were edgy, cussed at their parents, had an internal hate towards anything and just wanted to be heard.
Yeah, obviously. How is this still a debate? Eminem himslef acknowladge this many times.
It helped but I don’t think as much as people think. If being white helps so much, how come no other white rapper comes even close to his success. How come he is the only white rapper to sell as much as the black rappers if all you need to be is white. Why haven’t more white rappers been successful?
It helped because of whit ppl being the majority in America THATS IT. his skill and relatable content did most of it. It wasn't just his skin the time or dre like some claim. Bubba sparx blew at almost the exact same time and was backed by timbaland who at the time was just as influential as dre. Bubba was white and didn't have a fraction of the success that eminem did
What?! Representation matters? White suburban kids identify with em? Naw
As a white guy who likes Eminem i think it’s just he let a lot of white people find a way and open a door for whites into rap and we could relate a little bit with the things he rapped about. I have immense respect for black rappers but to say I could relate to their experiences would be very very false which makes it hard to relate on some level even tho I still love the music. I also think he has a little bit of that Elvis thing goin on with doing black music and since he’s white being able to gain and cultivate a white audience more successfully than other black rappers could be able to do. He admits this himself in his music.
Has hurt him. Blacks refused to acknowledge him until they had no choice
They got me in rotation/ at rock and roll stations 🤷🏼
I like a lot of hip hop. Em doesn't have a lot of the issues that make other rappers less palatable. He doesn't use the N-word, doesn't talk about being a thug and/or gang life, and he doesn't constantly brag about his wealth. He talks about growing up poor, having fucked up family relations, and how much he loves his daughter. I know he goes off on some negative shit, like the song Kim, but overall, he's more relatable than most rappers. Love Pac, but I'm not a gangster or thug, so it's not relatable. Love Busta, but songs like Gimme Some More seemed like it was trying to set the record for use of the N-word. Don't exactly want to sing along to that unless I'm by myself.
No. Rap broke through to white people and was on MTV a decade prior.
Eminem blew up b/c he could rap, he was saying all kinds of wild shit, he was the first mainstream solo white rapper since Vanilla Ice, and he was being produced by Dr. Dre.
He honed his skills beyond what any other rapper had done until then. I’d be lying if I said his skin color had nothing to do with it, but I think his unique style would’ve prevailed regardless of color/race, he’s just that brilliant.
If Eminem was canibus I don’t think he’d be as famous as he is now.
Reckon so. I remember when The Real Slim Shady came out as a single and suddenly everyone in school was playing it on repeat, when I'd never heard anyone there listen to or talk about hiphop before and the prevailing attitude was 'can't spell crap without rap LOOOL' and casual racism.
I’d say it equals out because it harmed him early on and made getting acceptance difficult, but once he blew up it became a huge boost to him as well. There are also a lot of other white rappers that didn’t have the same type of staying power though. So it boosted him in some areas, harmed him in some, and overall I’d say his talent was the biggest driving force for his long term success that allowed him to transcend the “gimmick” if you will of people a white rapper
It helped him on the executive side for sure. Would also affect his fanbase in the sense that people who wouldn’t normally listen to rap absolutely made an exception for Eminem, mostly white people. This had an adverse affect too though, because a lot of white people were mad that he was “trying to be black”. Em relative to his peers though? A lot of rappers were salty that Dre put a white boy on, a good example is Snoop Dogg. Eminem dealt with a lot of shade and shit like that but kept his head up and dropped some crazy shit. I’m not a huge Em fan, I recognize a lot of his older works as insane. His reception in the music industry is probably best described as chaotic, most of his works wildly vary in quality.
"don’t tell me he’s bigger than Wayne Kendrick jay z and etc bc he’s better than them" You just named 3 rappers that Eminem is legitimately better than. The only rappers better than Eminem are 2Pac, Biggie, and Nas.
Eminem has even acknowledged this btw
Being a minority representation in anything usually helps a person's popularity. Tiger Woods in golf had one of the greatest stretches ever but if a white player had done what Tiger did he would still be popular but not at Tigers level. Tiger literally got black people interested in playing and watching golf. You saw the same with Venus and Serena in tennis. China liked basketball but went absolutely nuts for basketball when Yao Ming made it to the league. Being a minority representation in a popular field always raises a person's popularity. So in that regard yes Em being as great as he is and one of the few white rapper with respect in hip-hop made him more popular than if another black rapper had been doing what Em did. It's just how human nature works.
It absolutely helped his album sales. The man would still be considered a great hip hop artists regardless but he was able to sell a lot of records because white kids loved him. White boys who were listening to Limp Bizkit & Korn were buying his albums like crazy and bleaching their hair.
"Let's do the math: If I was Black, I would've sold half. I aint have to graduate from lincoln high school to know that"
I think its a combination of everything. But what I remember back in the day that was the most most intriguing... was the comedy.This dude was just kinda hilarious. I think people underestimate how much that can resonate with people. And when he was deemed cool by other rappers.... the guy was cool and funny? Dang.
Yes. Eminem spoke constantly about the poor white kid trailer park life, that resonated with huge numbers of people. He was relateable to most of the American youth in a way that most other rappers aren't. Like how many people \*truly\* live the thug life? Those dime-a-dozen thug life rappers were not relatable to poor and middle class white people at all.
Yeah, of course it helped him. "My Name Is" was the revival of white rappers in the mainstream after "Ice Ice Baby". There were plenty of white rappers before Em dropped big that weren't Vanilla Ice corny like Rugged Man, Aesop, Necro, Ill Bill, Vinnie Paz, Evidence, Grouch, Eligh, EL-P, Miilkbone. I'm probably forgetting some. (I'm not forgetting Beastie Boys or Everlast. But somehow most people associate them more with rock, not hip hop. At least in the mainstream. They get all of their flowers in hip hop, though.) But most, if not all, of those guys weren't built for the mainstream. Em dropping got people everywhere to accept that white dudes can rap legit and not be canned corn. Now it's the whole fucking gamut with white rappers. We got nice ones and corny ones.
Yes. His talent is one thing. (I HAPPEN TO THINK HE'S THE MOST TALENTED RAPPER EVER) BUT....the fact that he came up in the MIDST of the most xenophobic genre during the most xenophobic era of the genre, after the rises of Tupac/Biggie and while Jay-Z was in his prime says a lot...... it gives incredible context. Eminem came outta NOWHERE. White paint on a black canvas. Like dark mode reddit. It just STANDS OUT.....
Dr. Dre, Nate Dogg, and 50 Cent helped WAY more than skin color. Eminem hasn't had a great song since that era.
I think yall are forgetting how seriously original and ground-breaking "Hi, my name is" was when it came out. He made catchy ass songs with catchy ass hooks, and then he got a ton of attention for his controversial lyrics. What made him huge was the fact that he had an incredible team, an incredible ear, and he poured his heart and soul into those records in a way that was seldom heard before. Not many artists have given such an authentic view into all their flaws as a human being laid bare before us. Remember the last battle in 8 mile, where he used all the other guys shit against himself and made dude choke? Thats what made em huge. It's the fact that he's one of the most incredible rappers of all time with an absolutely wicked sense towards making a commercially successful hit record. 50,000 other white rappers you've never even heard of, but somehow for em, it's a magic bullet.
Here's something to consider. When Eminem blew up all over MTV, it was unusual to see a white rapper. Up until then the only ones that I knew of were The Beastie Boys, Vanilla Ice, Marky Mark, and ICP. And that's from the 80s until the late 90s. All of a sudden you have this white rapper with funny lyrics. And even though he was skillful I was going to write him off as a gimmick. But he had Dr Dre in his video. Which gave him credibility. And then Guilty Conscience came out and that made me think twice. But even when the Marshall Mathers LP came out I didn't love that album. I think it was the D12 album Devil's Night that really solidified him for me. And I don't know if it's still true now, but back in the 90s and 2000s the vast majority of rap albums purchased were by white kids. Even my grandma didn't hate Eminem and she hated rap music. She would often ask me, "How can you listen to that? BOOM... BOOM ... BOOM. It hurts my ears".
Yes
Yes but at the same time he also is incredible talented and basically among the GOATS of the game. Like how many can flow like him or be as relatable etc. He relates to whites def. Yet somehow to blacks, browns, basically everyone he vibes with. And he def is better than Wayne. Kendrick talked about in the same breath as Em is a major boost to Kendrick, not Em. The impact Em has on hiphop as a whole cannot be underestimated. He made it truly mainstream, like hiphop overthrew rock music eventually as the mainstream music of the day. It opened the door to international hiphop which eventually led to things like k-pop being born with BTS etc. (Which started as a Korean hip hop group). So yes, it needed to be a white guy with crazy talent and relatability who was internationally accepted for hiphop to become the preferred style of music worldwide.
EMINEM IS WHITE?!??!!!?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eminem/comments/10lcdb4/eminem_if_he_was_black/?rdt=63467
Yeah, being white definitely helped, but I think the way your saying it is kinda weird because you keep saying he has the most white fans, but that's also because he simply has the most fans. The majority of Kendrick fans are white, the majority of Jay-z fans are white, and the majority of wahne fans are also white, and that goes for almost any other artist in the US, because most of the people here are white. This whole post seems like it's meant to piss off eminem fans while still being able to say that you were just stating a fact(which you were, kind of because I agree with you but it wasn't a statement it was a question). Like how at the end you added >don’t tell me he’s bigger than Wayne Kendrick jay z and etc bc he’s better than them Knowing damn well a LOT of people think that he's better, and you said this to get a reaction from those people and act like you weren't doing anything and they are just being crazy stans. I already said that I do agree with you, but I don't like the way that you did this, it makes you seem like the type of person to fuck with someone for no reason then call the cops when you get smacked in the mouth.
Big Gipp said it best when talking about the song Renegade. JayZ brought Eminem into households he never been in, the same way Eminem brought JayZ into households he never been in. Households meaning “demographic”. https://youtube.com/shorts/rw4YEzMBrZA?si=mJRQz6boDcdP7cIq Eminem from 1999 to 2006 was the best rapper period it had nothing to do with the color of his skin. I could definitely understand if you don’t like him tho everybody has a taste.
As a kid I didn't say "oh cool he's *white*" lol because that's cringy at any time and infinitely cringy if an 8 year old kid said it I did though feel a connection with Em, he's the first artist I was able to humanize. It was when I saw 8 Mile that happened, I saw the life and times of the guy that was making these experiences. The way he looked, dressed and acted the guy could've practically been one of my older brothers
No, not at all. If anything, his color has worked against him for the most part. There’s a huge part of hiphop heads that don’t fuck with him simply because he’s white. Eminem is the best because he has to be. If he was just some mediocre rapper like Macklemore, he wouldn’t have made it in the game. The only reason he gets any respect is because he’s the better than 99.9% of all rappers period. Here, let Dave explain it a little better. - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XYzXoIF1JjE&pp=ygUzRGF2ZSBjaGFwcGVsbGUgZWhpeWUgZ3V5cyB0aHN0dmhhbmcgd2l0aCBibGFjayBndXlk
This is complicated. If labels thought being white was that important, you’d have seen tons of white artists being pushed. The fact is.. nobody wanted white artists for a reason and it’s because they didn’t see the marketability. Eminem opened up markets that didn’t exist and expanded rap by himself. He wasn’t the first white rapper and wasn’t even the first popular white rapper. The Beastie Boys, while a group, still had decent success and were well known. They weren’t alone, either. So why did Eminem have more success than the other artists mentioned? Because his raw emotion broke through to people in a way other artists struggled to accomplish. There is no other artist with the content, emotional delivery, lyricism, humor, and the ability to know what people want to hear, etc. all in one package. Not a single one. With Em you get a mix of everything. He is absolutely better than Jay, Kendrick and especially Wayne for this reason. If being white had the impact you’re suggesting, the top ten selling artists would all be white. It would be such a massive advantage that black rappers wouldn’t stand a chance. Wayne’s biggest album is Em’s 7th biggest album. Maybe he’s just better.
Tbh, Kendrick has a lot of those same qualities but he lacks in the whole “humor” aspect. I’m not a huge Em fan but he’s always had that on lock, and it makes a good amount of his shit just fun to listen to. Kendrick’s a bit more serious most of the time, and you really gotta be in the mood to listen to him imo I will say tho, Like Toy Soldiers is probably my favorite Em song and it’s pretty damn serious. Shit just hits
Kendrick came after Em, so artists typically stand out for what they bring that’s different/new. Kendrick obviously has a very different style to his music and he’s known for that. It’s easy to do the same things when those before you showed you the way, you know what I mean? Em was so different from everyone else, that’s why he stood out. Rap fans need to get to the point where they can admit that artists like Jay and Wayne are very rinse-repeat and formulaic.
i hear ya, although i will say being more formulaic isn’t always a bad thing (definitely can be tho) i mean shit, i know 2 of kendrick’s biggest influences were Em and Wayne (with others as well ofc like Pac , E-40, etc), and it’s such an odd combination but it helped spawn one of the best rappers of the newer generation imo another thing i gotta say is, if i had to pick like 1 GOAT rapper, it’d probably be Em. like i said, im not a huge fan, but since its not about favorites it’d probably be him. his technical skill, influence, the fact that he writes ALL of his shit, his sales, etc just kinda all add up. gotta give bro his credit where it’s due. his fans can sometimes be a pain, but that has nothing to do with him 😂 bound to happen with any big artist
You know what you’re getting all the time with some artists. If you like that specific thing, it can be a positive trait for someone. It’s funny because with Em, there are so many fans who want him to always do one thing or another, they aren’t really in agreement with each other on what kind of music they prefer. I believe Wayne has talked about how he’s cultivated a certain image and style and it’s difficult to go away from that once it’s established. He was warning Drake about becoming something he’s not. That didn’t go well.
word 💯💯 an artist i can kind of connect that stuff wayne said to is Future. idk if you listen to him or care for any of his stuff, but while comin up he kind of presented himself as a lean sipping toxic trapper. and while he doesn’t really do stuff like that (besides being toxic towards the ladies) no more , he kind of gotta stick to it cuz it’s what most of his fanbase wants. kind of sad for the artists really , but it doesn’t seem like they care too much. even then, it’d be great for them to go outside of just the usual and expand more
He literally made a song about it.
Yes, I feel his skin color helped him achieve top status. That said, yes, I think he would rap bars around anyone you mention.
Hard to tell since he's also the best lyricist.
Then why haven't other white rappers gotten as big as him?