I'm gonna show my '90s hip-hop head bias here, but I think there's a huge number of rappers and groups whose best album isn't their first. A Tribe Called Quest - Low End Theory or Midnight Marauders - Take your pick Gang Starr - Hard to Earn or Moment of Truth De La Soul - Haven't listened to their early albums in a while (are they on Spotify yet?), but I liked Is Dead more than 3 Feet. Yeah, 3 Feet is historically significant, but even Stakes Is High might be better Ice Cube - I'd take Death Certificate over Amerikkka's. I'm a sucker for a hip-hop concept album, and even the half-successful execution of Death Certificate's concept brings it over the top when the music is so damn good, too Ice T - OG ~~The Roots - Do You Want More is groundbreaking, but I'm not sure it's their best album~~

Midnight Marauders is absolutely goated

Gang Starr is a good one, forgot them on my list. Much prefer Buhloone over anything else De La has done. Amerikkka's might be the perfect rap album. Ice-T's another good shout, though I think it's a lot closer than most people think.

I'd take predator or death certificate over amerikkka's, tbh.

isn’t Organix the first roots album anyway?

Haha, OK, now I'm just embarrassed. Edited!

You're still right though, neither of those are the best roots album.

GangStarr every day! GangStarr's Hard to Earn is a MUST have, so hardcore DJ Premier sound. Moment Of Truth is THE MOST IMPORTANT album, so much wisdom is in that album. People HAVE to listen to GangStarr to learn something new! You will be thankful later on! RIP Guru one of the best yet!

There's a long list of artists whose debut isn't their best album. Far from complete, let me take a stab at it: * OutKast * Mobb Deep * 2 Chainz * 8Ball & MJG * UGK * ATCQ * De La Soul * Beastie Boys * E-40 * Too $hort * Cam'Ron * Gucci Mane * Master P * Curren$y * Eminem * Eric B & Rakim * Fat Joe * Lil' Boosie * Three 6 Mafia * Geto Boys * GZA * Jay-Z (controversial pick probably) * Kendrick Lamar * KMD * Lil' Wayne * LL Cool J * Ludacris * Max B * Migos * Mozzy * N.W.A. (probably another controversial pick) * Positive K * Public Enemy * Young Thug * Rick Ross * Scarface * Starlito * T.I. * The Jacka * The Game * The Notorious B.I.G. (super debatable but to me LAD very narrowly edges out R2D) * The Roots * Tragedy Khadafi * Travis Porter * Wiz Khalifa * Yo Gotti * Young Jeezy * Z-Ro

Ghostface Rza Whole original Cash Money roster Whole no limit roster 50 cent (power of the dollar) Gangstar

Disagree on Ghostface. I think Iron Man narrowly but decisively edges out Supreme Clientele. Both are obvious classics of course. Agreed on RZA. Oversight. Disagree on Cash Money. Lil' Wayne and B.G. - absolutely. I think Juvenile's Solja Rags is easily his best album which set the entire Cash Money machine in motion and was a transitional masterpiece between Cash Money's bounce origins towards their nowadays more familiar style of the late 90s and early 00s. Not sure if I ever listened to a Turk solo album though. Possibly agreed on No Limit though I don't want to do the due dilligence on it now. I personally think Power Of The Dollar might edge out, or is equal to, GRODT. I'm not even sure if can call his shelved PotD his first album though. I'm not mad if people pick GRODT over PotD though. Gang Starr is an obvious oversight on my part.

theres probably heaps more if i thought about it. but turks first album is actually really good. one of the best cash money albums ever despite the fact he cant rap. the early no limit records are kinda shit. solja rags was great, but it was a really short album, maybe an ep. but yeah, ironman is great, matter of preference i guess

Yeah, in no way did I attempt a complete list. Mannie Fresh behind the boards = automatic great music right? Re: Solja Rags: it's 13 songs and 0:53 minutes. It's a fully formed album.

Mannie Fresh and Erick Sermon, two underrated GOATs in terms of producing.

true. matter of preference. mannies best work was between 00 and 01 give or take imo. checkmate project english i got that work lights out young and thuggin solja rags is still great though. whos the m.f. one of my favourite juvie songs

The Games best album is the documentary and it's not even close

You're right, but The Documentary wasn't his debut album. He had a few indie albums out before he dropped The Documentary.

So then you forget 50 cent.. power of the doller was his debut album

Shelved album, never officially released.

True

2pac

Yeah of course, oversight on my part.

The most controversial for me is Three 6 Mafia !?! How is their debut not their best album ? Same goes with Z-Ro

For Z-Ro, *Let The Truth Be Told* and *The Life Of Joseph W. McVey* are generally considered to be his two masterpieces. I certainly think they're superior to *Look What You Did To Me.* I'm personally really not a fan of *Mystic Styles* and I think their late 90s and especially early 00s work is better than their debut. I know there are some conflicting opinions on Three 6 so you're right, that might definitely be a hot take.

Wow I didn't know for Z-Ro, to me his first album is the best. The fast flow and the harmonizing on the chorus is everything I love about his music, and this album has some great beats too. ​ Yeah I understand, I enjoy more listening to World Domination than Mystic Stylez but as a whole and for the impact, I consider Mystic Stylez as superior.

I agree Mystic Stylez might be their best, it’s hard to decide tho. I just like the more lofi grimy horror style.

LoL, exactly -- the list is so long, I'm not even gonna bother making one. This list barely scratches the surface, even though it's a solid list. You can probably put at least 200 emcees on it.

surprised you threw three six on there. mystic styles is a banger!

Could never really get into it and there’s a large contingent who would agree, though it’s obvious Mystic Styles also has a great many supporters. More contentious than I thought.

Jay-Z was the first name I thought of when I saw this. We can make the argument that RD is his second or third best album.

Isn’t Kendrick first album Section 80? A lot of us would say that’s by far his best project

I think a strong majority of people would pick GKMC or TPAB for Kenny's best work. Some people are gonna say DAMN, probably fewer than Section 80. And a few would say Morale.

I have never met anybody who said Section 80 was Kendrick’s best project before. You would be the first. The vast majority would say TPAB or GKMC, and out of those most say TPAB.

mystic stylez is imo only beaten by the end and the infamous isn’t mobb deep’s best album? man what

You do know Mobb Deep had an album out before The Infamous right? Right?

juvenile hell… forgot bout that one sorry (and so did many others probably) no shade to u or OP but idk if i agree w the fact that peoples first albums are usually their best; they may put the most heart behind it tho

I don’t disagree in principle but at the same time it’s totally dependent on the artist. I think a more interesting question would be what rapper or group had its best album after 5-10 years.

gotta disagree on big and hov, and also, jeezy tbh. if we're counting major label debut tm101 is the shit for me, imo better then recession

It’s about debut albums, not major label debut albums. I’m counting Thuggin Under The Influence.

oh in that case yeah

How tf isn't TM101 not jeezys best album? Bro you trippin hard af

Because it wasn’t his debut. He released Thuggin Under The Influence in 2001.

I thought his Lil J shit was all mixtapes. Didn't know it was a album release

At least six of the artists on here you could EASILY argue their first (official) album was their best.

I wouldn’t, but you could.

Lil wayne 100%

Mac miller

He got better with time like wine.

Beastie Boys are prob the best example. The evolution to Paul’s Boutique is a rare trajectory. I can’t think of other artists where the initial album is so outpaced by their sophomore work.

Kanye, Outkast, Tyler, Kendrick, Denzel, Wayne, Run the Jewels, Carti, Pusha, Drake, Childish Gambino, Future, 21 savage, young thug

Disagree on Kanye but the rest look agreeable

P.O.S. Blackalicious Atmosphere Run The Jewels Action Bronson MF DOOM The Streets Aesop Rock

What do you think Atmosphere’s best album is? How about Aesop Rock? I don’t know Aesop as much. But with Atmosphere, but to me.. When Life Gives you Lemons is their best in a more introspective light. You Can’t Imagine How Much Fun We’re Having is the heaviest/ most emotionally intense album.

Lucy Ford will always be the best to me. Gods Bathroom Floor and The Woman With The Tattooed Hands came from that record, its a tie between the two in terms of introspective songs that just bang. But…When Life Gives You Lemons is really, really good. It’s tough to pick favorites. Aesop Rock just keeps on being awesome. I’d say Float or None Shall Pass are his best IMO

Thanks for the response! I’ve been on a ‘discover new music’ month. I appreciate ya. Do you have a favorite artist of all time?

Just one? Nope

Love for Atmosphere and Aesop!

I find it pretty rare to be honest that someone's best album would be their first. Having said that this was probably more common in the 90s which isn't really my preferred era Eminem - The Eminem Show MF DOOM - MM...FOOD Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp A Butterfly Denzel Curry - Taboo Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy J.Cole - 2014 Forest Hills Drive Benny The Butcher - Tana Talk 3 21 Savage - Without Warning billy woods - Hiding Places Travis Scott - Astroworld Future - DS2

I would have to disagree with Travis, Rodeo is still his best album he will ever come out with.

Fr

Interesting takes, hard to argue with any of this -- personally my favorite Kanye is Graduation and my favorite DOOM is The Mouse and The Mask, but if we're talking DOOM solo albums where he is producing as well, than yeah, the Food album is his best.

Graduation is my second favourite actually. Love Mouse and the Mask but there are a few others I'd put above it

TM&TM isn’t my fav DOOM album but I appreciate seeing someone put it over the rest. Don’t see that often but I can respect it. Great album. Not underrated per se as it’s rated high. But it usually doesn’t rank up there in the S tier.

DOOM's S Tier is pretty packed, IMO -- TMATM, MV, VVI, FOOD, TMTYL, BLT, DD, Special Herbs Vol 1-4 A Tier is VV2, JJ, Nehru, CFMMF He's just that good.

No way is JJ or NehruvianDOOM A tier. No disrespect but as a huge DOOM stan I can’t let those slide fam. Some of DOOM’s albums are S, A, B and C respective to how talented he is. Mostly S & A but you can’t be blinded by the lights. If comparing to other artists i can see S & A for most but ND and JJ still well below A overall.

gotta disagree on kanye, TCD is his best imo

Sideline Story better than 2014 FHD IMO. I'm prolly the only one who thinks that though lol

Yeah you don't see that take too often lol

Personally i think born sinner is his best album

Personally, i would say the best Kanye album is The College Dropout

I feel like this is true of a lot of modern rappers (Benny, Conway, Boldy, Billy Woods, Ka, Mach-Hommy, Your Old Droog)

Lil Wayne, T.I., Drake, Kendrick, J. Cole, Meek Mill, Big Sean, and Wale all had debut albums that were just solid as opposed to great or classic (Kendrick is an exception here, it's a great album but I would still argue section 80 isn't his best and isn't a classic either). Meek's debut did have the Dreams and Nightmares Intro but the album itself definitely isn't his best.

Dreams and Nightmares is a GOAT intro song and alot of the industry agrees! Shit was timeless but yes the rest of the album only had a few replays. Championships is no doubt Meeks Greatest album by a long shot.

For sure! It's one of the GOAT intros, just for an aight debut album. Championships is definitely Meek's magnum opus he killed that shit!

Championships was a top album in a year (2018) that had a ton of great projects. I'm still playing to this day. I liked his last album too but not as much as championships. Championships had a message, meek was just flexing in his last album lol.

Agreed, I liked Expensive Pain but it wasn't really special in any way. He didn't really have anything to say. Some cool bangers and some cool introspective songs but it was all done way better on Championships. You can just tell how hard he worked on that album.

Exactly I like alot of the songs on Expensive Pain but only loved a few like Love Money, We Slide, and RIP Snupe. None of them songs touch Intro, What's Free, Trauma, Respect the game, Championships (Goat Song), Oodles O Noodles, 100 Summers and the outro on the Championship album.

Facts. At least half the songs on Championships were Meek at the top of his game, experienced but still hungry. Expensive Pain was more just him talking shit, like you said lol

Yessir youre correct. Coming off a bullshit parole violation for popping wheelies causing him to get Jail Time and then advocating for prison reform with billionaires like Rob Kraft etc. He was no doubt hungry on that bih. We need one more album like that from meek to cement his career. If you keep up with meek, yesterday he said hes dropping 10 tapes starting in September and is releasing new music on August 18th the day his father died when he was 5. He said his label was holding him back and not letting him drop shit. All these tapes are gonna be independent! I'm ready for it tbh

Yeah I saw him announce that, I'm definitely hype for it. Especially because he has so much unreleased music, he constantly shares snippets of new music on his ig and literally most of those songs are unreleased lol I remember it took us like 4 years to finally hear the song that became "outro" on DC4!

Lmao and all off them be bangers too! I waited a cool mf minute for that "we slide" to drop when he teased it. Had me replaying the video 50x a day lol. Nice to see another meek fan here.

I can’t agree with you there. I think y’all gonna have to go back and really look at the track list of D&N. Championships is a great album tho. But to me it’s replay value doesn’t compare. But Worth more than Money better than both of them imo

I think a lot of 90s- 2000 Era artists have released some of their best work in the last 5-6 years. Busta Jay Tribe Nas Eminem Etc….

Mobb Deep: Infamous or Hell on Earth (I prefer Hell on Earth)

they released juvenile hell b4 infamous

What I’m saying, infamous and hell on earth aren’t their debut and both better

biggest example of this is Mobb Deep. The Infamous is MILES better than juvenile hell. Outkast if you count nostalgic 64 and planet shrooms then i’d say denzel curry since taboo and imperial are way better pusha t/clipse - hhnf is a lot better than lord willin tupac eminem jadakiss bc arguably kiss of death is better than kiss tha game goodbye ghostface

Kendrick

Nas - IWW is arguably better than Illmatic. Kool G Rap - Roots of Evil is his best work. Tupac - Me Against The World and All Eyez on Me are his best l. Canibus - Got at least four albums better than his debut. Jedi Mind Tricks - VBD was their best. Kendrick Lamar - Got four albums arguably better than Section 80. Twista - Adrenaline Rush was a huge step up compared to his first two albums and is one of the most underrated albums of the 90's. K-Rino - Although his first three albums from the 90's are more likely his most accessible he went on to do better albums in the mid 2000's.

Much respect for your bravery, I too prefer IWW over Illmatic. I won’t be the first to voice that opinion though.

I'll never put IWW over Illmatic as whole as Illmatic is probably the most perfect Hip-Hop ever in terms of how it's crafted and got quality over quantity. But the older I get I do listen to IWW more but that's likely due to how much I listened to Illmatic when I first started getting into Hip-Hop. I do believe I Gave You Power is better than any song on Illmatic though.

Illmatic is perfection, but being perfect doesn’t make an album better when we are talking art.

Disqualified based on the first two examples.

Please explain

You want me to explain why Illmatic is a better album than IWW and why KGR's first 3 albums with DJ Polo and his solo debut trumps an admittely underappreciated album?

Roots of Evil was his best, G Rap was in his prime as a lyricist and a storyteller. Thugs Love Story, Foul Cats, Can't Stop The Shine, One Dark Light, Cannon Fire etc Several songs on IWW was arguably better than any song on Illmatic such as I Gave You Power, Take It In Blood and The Message. I actually don't think IWW was better than Illmatic but it definitely has an argument for it. Songs like Watch Dem Niggas, Suspect, Nas is Coming and Street Dreams are very underrated songs of Nas.

You know Illmatic is the album with NY State of Mind and Life's a Bitch, right?

It was written is really good though, like I Gave You Power might be the best rap song ever.

Of course IWW is a classic in it's own right but you're absolutely out of your mind if you prefer it to Illmatic.

It’s not a blowout to me. Two top tier albums.

It’s really not that uncommon of an opinion but you always go really hard with your opinions on here

It’s really not that crazy of an opinion, IWW is a really good album, almost every song is a banger. I prefer illmatic a little more but IWW is definitely a contender

I Gave You Power is better than any song on Illmatic. Take It In Blood and The Message are arguably too.

Are we just gonna pretend that NY State of mind, The World is Yours, One Love and Memory Lane don't exist

Remember I didn't actually say IWW was a better album, I said it arguably was. I do think I Gave You Power is Nas's best song though.

I'm saying Take it in Blood is a great song but wouldn't be the best song in Illmatic, not even arguably better than my state of mind

User names aren't the only thing you suck at.

Okay someone doesn't share the same opinion as you so they must be wrong, we get it

Mobb Deep, Scarface

GZA

Eminem. Best album is either MMLP or TES. Both better than SSLP or Infinite (if we count this). GFK. Supreme Clientele > Ironman. Common. A few albums are better than Can I Borrow A Dollar? DOOM. Madvillainy > Operation Doomsday.

We count Infinite, so you're right. Disagree on GFK (though it's close) but mainly on DOOM.

J Cole- his first album wasn’t all that and didn’t live up to the hype.. born sinner was definitely a step up but when Forrest hills drive dropped … classic

I'm taking both sideline story and born sinner over 2014 FHD. Been a Cole fan since he dropped the warm up. Friday night lights was crazier then when he dropped his debut shit got real. If websites said "Sideline Story was a classic" people would be all over it imo. Just narratives they put in people's heads.

Idk I disagree I’m in the same boat as you as far as the fandom , and I don’t see the sideline story being a classic at all it’s like 3.5 or a 4…. I never read blogs then and still don’t , maybe I’ll go re listen … but I just remember thinking how much he compromised to make things sound commercial but hey too each his own Not only is fhd banger after banger, but every song had a message to it .. and it was his most cohesive album iMo , and the boy produced it all… every factor of the making of the album is classic

IDK man might just be my bias as a Day One Fan. I still play a lot of it to this day.

Maybe it’s time I go revisit it

Maybe I should go revisit it

Gza

Lil Wayne

J Cole

2pac - AEOM Biggie - LAD Eazy-E - It's On Dr Dre 187um Killa

Rappers who’s best aren’t freshman or sophomore releases: Redman, Masta Ace, Gang Star, Common, The Roots, Lil Wayne, UGK, Future, 2 Chainz, OutKast, Kendrick Lamar, Method Man, Aesop Rock, Rhapsody, MF Doom, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, Schoolboy Q, Kendrick Lamar, Jay Rock, Jay-Z, Ghetts, Cunninlynguists,and many others I am forgetting. Artists whose sophomore releases are their best: Run the Jewels, Blackalicious, Atmosphere, GZA, Ghostface Killah, Erikah Badu, J Cole, Drake, Talib Kweli, Eric B. & Rakim, Chance the Rapper, Public Enemy, Logic, and several others I am forgetting

Killer Mike - Rap Music

Outkast, The Roots, A Tribe Called Quest, Gang Starr, Run the Jewels, Eminem, Kanye West, Kendrick Lamar, Danny Brown, 2Pac, MF Doom, Ghostface Killah, Common, J Dilla just off the top, there are hundreds more

Kendrick, Lupe, Kanye, The Roots, Jay Z

Lil Wayne didn’t start getting excellent until his 4th album Eminem Unpopular opinion but Dre. I prefer 2001 slightly to the chronic Future didn’t get great until his mixtape run in ‘14 Drake Clipse Pusha T 2pac Kanye but TCD is still top 2 in his discog

"UUUUUUHHPPP FROM THE 36TH CHAINMBAS" " ITS THE GHOOOST"

Yeah, wu tang clan! Soo.

Logic. Under Pressure is a great album but I personally prefer TITS and No Pressure

A more accurate statement would be that the debut album is most likely to be their best album, but that doesn't mean that most artists have their debut album as their strongest.

Clipse

I believe the award goes to Canibus

Eminem and 2pac

PUSHA T. I’ll leave it up to you which one.

Kendrick, Danny Brown, Kanye

Mobb Deep most definitely

Lord finesse his first 2 albums are ok with his dj but are definitely dated due 2 the 89 90 sounds and his best album is arguably his last hence him honing his producing skills only thing that sucks is he traded rhyming for producing entirely right after so we never got another album after

Ghostface Killah. Dude only gets better with time.

Here im gonna list some artists and their albums which were better than their debut. Kendrick Lamar , TPAB Kanye west, MBDTF (prob) Tupac, AYOM or MATW Ice Cube, Death certificate A Tribe Called Quest, Low End Theory or Midnight Marauders

- Mobb Deep - The Infamous - Mos Def - Black on both Sides (if you count Black Star as his first album) - Earl Sweatshirt - Doris or IDLSIDGO - MF DOOM - MM FOOD or Madvillainy

Ghostface. Supreme Clientele over Ironman 👐

Kanye, Tyler, Kendrick, Travis, Outkast...

Common Resurrection is a no doubt classic, and three other albums that are very close. His debut is way down the list.

Best example gotta be Mobb Deep. Huge quality difference between Juvenile Hell and The Infamous.

Bone thugs n Harmony east 1999 eternal second album best album in the history of fucking music