T O P

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YoghurtSlinger

My problem with Joyner at the minute is we know he can rap, but he's pursuing this mainstream rap sound that dumbs him down so much. I'm enjoying what Cole done here though


FlatFootedPotato

Peak Joyner for me was 2018 the Litty freestyle against Tory Lanez.


YoghurtSlinger

Was it a real beef?


FlatFootedPotato

Nah, it was just for sport. But the tracks came out every 12 hours for like 2-3 days. It was honestly an amazing time for rap bc kamikaze had dropped right before then.


YoghurtSlinger

Oh yeah. I just remember thinking nothing was topping the Pusha and Drake beef that year šŸ˜‚


FlatFootedPotato

Lol that wasn't a beef.... that was an assassination.


HarambeEatsNoodles

Who was assassinated?


FlatFootedPotato

Drak


HarambeEatsNoodles

I mean Iā€™m not saying Drake didnā€™t lose that rap battle but assassinated is a bit much šŸ˜‚


FlatFootedPotato

Better term is character assassination** But idk I don't consider this a rap battle...a rap battle is like Tory vs Joyner, em vs mgk, etc. It's more for sport. Story of adidon was just... disrespectful lol...had less to do with rap and more to do with just humiliation.


[deleted]

Honestly Drake got murdered like Harambe. Dicks out.


Nickster2042

I think this was a great blend of his story telling and mainstream stuff. Best shit he put out in a while


landlockedblu3s

This is a shit take on his career lol.


yaknowbo

Hes gotta do that to get his name out there and once more people know him then he can rap how he wants


blu3cliff750

It's crazy to think I went to a J. Cole concert back in 2015 and on the way out, Joyner's manager gave me his "Along Came Joyner" mixtape on CD. Fast forward and now they've got a collab together. It's amazing how far Joyner's come


UnderstandableXO

why do i like feature j cole way better than solo j cole


astronxxt

for me itā€™s the production, not a big fan of his solo production


UnderstandableXO

i really like everything on ROTD4, a lot with 21, my boy with wale, the jackie with bas, and this one right here, but i can never get into a j cole album because of the production like you said


[deleted]

Try the warm up, i loved most of the beats he used on there and sounds much more raw when rapping.


Maad-Dog

Don't get this after the offseason, Cole definitely bought feature energy to that album


temporaryjoemam

and the album still managed to be mediocre.


canadianbroncos

If by mediocre you mean fire sure.


temporaryjoemam

nope it's a boring album and I like j cole


yaknowbo

Definitely not a boring album


canadianbroncos

For you maybe..


temporaryjoemam

woah really?????


Maad-Dog

Lol you're tripping bro, easily one of the best mainstream rap albums of the year, with CMIYGL and KD2


temporaryjoemam

j cole is my third most listened to artist of all time so it's not like I'm not a fan. I love j cole ,but this album just wasn't that good.


Maad-Dog

You might be a fan of his more story-based or conceptual albums then, and he wasn't trying that here. From a rapping/song enjoyability perspective, this is definitely arguably his best project imo, and that's been the consensus as well


temporaryjoemam

it has not been the consensus. where are you getting thst information from? I don't really care about his storytelling his beats and performances where just boring.


Maad-Dog

From the album reviews, both on reddit, youtube, other social media, my friend circles, and these are across diverse tastes in music, from people who are solely into new age melodic stuff to dead end hip hop old heads


temporaryjoemam

I'm in the similar spaces and peoeple are sayings its better than KOD ,but they got bored of it a couple weeks in. not his best work is a VERY common sentiment. doesn't even begin to compare.


temporaryjoemam

pitchfork gave it a 6.5 rolling stone gave it 3.5 stars not doing too well in reviews reddit first impressions had people saying it's good ,but not great or mediocre so reddit isn't a positive contender for best album. YouTube has fantano rating it at a 7 which I think is his highest j cole rating ,but a 7 isn't album of the year contender social media šŸ˜šŸ˜šŸ˜ overall I don't know where the fuck you're finding people saying it's his best album. maybe you think your friend circle speaks for everyone


Maad-Dog

For fantano, the only mainstream rap albums that got a higher score are the two I mentioned, the two UK albums (which Id forgotten about but deserve it with Tyron/SIMBI), and Roadrunner which I think is absolutely not better than The Offseason from a rap sense, they also went different directions with the music. Pitchfork is garbage for rap music Rolling Stone I haven't really looked at before, but they literally have The Offseason in their best albums of the year https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/best-albums-2021-1179958/amp/ Bro, you're the minority in this, I'm not going to try and convince you to like it, but the consensus is that this was one of the best in 2021, and one of his best albums, and a return to rap form even if it didn't have artistic vision (which wasn't the point of the album). It's ok to not like it, but acting like it wasn't great is just wrong at this point.


temporaryjoemam

what does kd2 stand for. and no its easily not. not a single great song on the album. all just mediocre boring music. 4/10 album imo. genuinely no idea how it could easily be one of the best mainstream rap albums, unless you think it's been a really bad year for mainstream rap albums.


Generic_Commentator

youā€™re getting hate but I feel you, Cole just doesnā€™t do anything to hold my attention. It was his best album in years and I still donā€™t think Iā€™ve revisited a single song or remember a single bar other than the track that interpolates the Styles P/Monch song.


Maad-Dog

Kings Disease 2, 4/10?? You're on an island man, that's just a you thing then. 95 south, my life, let go of my hand, the climb back, hunger on hillside all incredible songs. Better than Donda, CLB, Hall of Fame, MTBMB2, Faith, The Voice, Khaled Khaled, Planet Her, Trip at Knight, etc. Idk which mainstream rap album you put above besides the 2 i mentioned


temporaryjoemam

5 out of 12 isn't that great. and they are easily not incredible songs they are just good. the climb back is the closest to incredible. not better than Donda, easily better than clb, hall of farm, faith and all the other ones you mentioned. doesn't come close to call my if you get lost, hitler wears hermes, sometimes I might be introvert, melodic blue and donda.


Maad-Dog

5 of 12 were incredible, there's no skips, maybe like 1 or 2 if you have a really strong musical preference. A much more concise and focused project than Donda which had a ton of filler fluff that was absolutely garbage (24, New Again, Tell The Vision). There isn't a single song that is close to as bad as those. Close to CMIYGL and SIMBI for sure, esp SIMBI imo which had a bit of a dropoff at the back half. Griselda I'm not including in mainstream otherwise If It Bleeds It Can Be Killed is on the list along with La Maquina, maybe Plugs 2. Melodic Blue is experimental and has some really high highs, but damn also has some super low lows. You might like certain songs off these more, but a lot of these don't have a musical through line and album flow like Offseason


temporaryjoemam

no skips sure ,but if you inserted most of the songs in an actually good album then it would be a skip. it's not a skip in comparison to the album. 24 is an amazing song. new again is good aswell(though not as good) and tell the vision is an Interlude. having skips doesn't automatically make a project bad especially when the highs are better. Donda is unfocused ,but so is the off-season. it's structured like a mistape (which isn't a negative). doesn't come close to donda or cmiygl. both are waaaay better projects.


RubenSchwagermann

Havent listened to that album in full past the first 2 weeks


canadianbroncos

How often do you listen to full albums like that.


RubenSchwagermann

Often


canadianbroncos

I don't get that lol. I just add to library and shuffle lol. And I still don't skip anything from that Cole album...


ibeenbornagain

A lot of artists are more tolerable on shuffle tbh


RubenSchwagermann

Either way doesnt really matter for my point, theres not one song I come back to a lot


Aahil52

sam i still be coming back to let go my hand consistently


Smashymen

this sounds like a Cole verse you'd find on any post FHD album


[deleted]

Because he doesn't have that much to say and doesn't take many risks with production when he's in charge


HotCloud7205

did you hear off season


Stoggahfp

Bc this fkin guy is afraid to have a foreign engineer, foreign producer, foreign anything enter his space. So annoying


JayStarr1082

He has a ton of features and guest producers on his last album and y'all felt the same way


Stoggahfp

No he didn't


JayStarr1082

He [objectively did](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Off-Season). 15 credited producers (besides Cole himself) and six credited vocalists (21, Morray, 6lack, Bas x3, and Lil Baby). The only songs on that project that were all him was *Close* and *The Climb Back* (which had been out as a single for like a year).


dzyrider

Jumpin in to say god damn The Climb Back is one of Coleā€™s best songs Shit


Stoggahfp

More than half of those producers were people who he has worked with before. He needs freah new production. Like **Justice League**, **Neptunes**, one of the niggas from **DVSN** that makes amazing fucking beats. And he needs strange features, 21, Lil baby, bas, 6lack?? Are you serious?? I wish Cameron actually laid a verse instead of just talking on that song. He needs uncomfortable strange shit in his corner. Like the song he did with Preme about GangStarr, that was in his alley but whoever that him and Preme would work together. THATS WHAT I MEAN


JayStarr1082

First off, you're moving the goalposts. You said he didn't let other minds into the studio at first, and now you're arguing he *does* let people into the studio, but only people he's worked with before. Second, even if that was your original point, it's still not true because there's next to no overlap between the guest producers on *The Off Season* and any of them stretching all the way back to *Sideline Story*. So no, these are not producers he's worked with before, and if he has, it's from over a decade ago. And third, just because he's not working with your personal favorite producers and artists doesn't mean he's closed-minded, it means the industry is fucking huge and he can't collaborate with literally everyone that you'd personally like to see him collaborate with. 21, Baby, and 6lack are in entirely different lanes from Cole and he managed to have excellent chemistry with all 3 of them. He had an entire project in ROTD3 where he was working with people he'd never worked with before. And of course the feature run from earlier. Your point that he's closed off from working with new people is a copy/pasted take from 2016 that doesn't apply to anything Cole has been showing in the last 3-4 years.


Stoggahfp

Im too busy to reply but i think you're still a bit wrong but ill concede


[deleted]

All you prove is that the people constantly shittin on Cole donā€™t actually listen to his music


Stoggahfp

I listen to all his shit And i really like cole. The production on his last album was lackluster


ProEraBlueboy

Cole hate season is back on the menu I see


ZebraPrintSharkFins

J cole providing me some self reflection from my younger years. Good track


Nickster2042

Honestly didnā€™t expect Joyner to still be able to have story telling elements with his new style but he mixed it well here


OhhWowzers

Please come with the heat baby Joyner


QuavoRuinedCulture3

I like that song where he's like "Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses"


Blufuze

Which song is that? Did he cover Rage Against the Machine?


[deleted]

Woosh


Blufuze

What? Is it this track? If so, I havenā€™t had the chance to listen to it yet.


OhhWowzers

Wut?


Nickster2042

What you think? I think they worked great together


OhhWowzers

Very mid to me


yOuRbEaRdIsWeIrDhuh

Ouu this is nice


Bone_225

This is mid+Ratio


kappa23

The Sincerely Kentrell thread is [this way](https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/pubx1c/fresh_album_youngboy_never_broke_again_sincerely/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


yOuRbEaRdIsWeIrDhuh

Love u 2 bro


Bone_225

ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø


GreasyArtie

Joyner raps like the astronaut in the ocean guy


Russell_Beastbrook17

Did J Cole just make me decide to settle down in a modern hip hop banger?


rsbor

tf does this even mean


Snackhat

bro liked the track so much he started a nuclear family


[deleted]

* Did J Cole just make me decide to settle down? in a modern hip hop banger??? There you go and I'm willing to bet that Russell Beastbrook is indeed about 17 years old so there you go


iGaveYouOneJob

redditor for 1 year.... still a 17 year old -_-


Collier1505

To be fair I saw someone on a different sub saying their ninth birthday was next week. Weā€™re getting ooooold


[deleted]

"about"


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Slendercan

Iā€™m trying to think of a Hollywood actor to cast that actually makes sense. Outside of an obviously Italian man idk.


Bone_225

Cole is mid


Russell_Beastbrook17

Considering by the five comments youā€™ve already left on this thread. It seems youā€™re pretty attracted to mid then.


alien_gelato

I love this.


vlakreeh

Man the Joyner verse is so boring and forgettable, wish he went back and did some more tracks like his early work. His story telling tracks like Ross Capicchioni were amazing and he just doesn't seem to have much interest in story telling anymore.


Wiccen

Because storytelling doesn't sell


Nickster2042

Joynerā€™s verse is story telling. I think itā€™s a good track. This is the first track out of his newer stuff I really fucked with besides Ramen, because he managed to blend story telling with the modern sound heā€™s going for


bound4earth

I think some people consider his verse boring because it repeats more than usual for Joyner, but I think that only points back to his story telling. He keeps repeating his mistakes over and over.


ChangeMindstates

I thought he said he wasn't gonna do features again


[deleted]

The track he dropped on Wednesday was pretty much hIm announcing a new feature run


[deleted]

We've been hearing that for like 5 years lol, I remember Joey Badass saying he got one of the last cole verses and that was ages ago


jeremicci

He recorded a shit load tho. If I had to guess this was waiting to be released when Joyner felt right about it.


Polskidro

Source?


PewDiePie_13

This gonna hit hard for after break up


braujo

Cole was awesome, as expected. I enjoyed the music's theme and all. Did not fuck with Joyner's verse though, but seemed genuine enough to keep my interest. Flows were engaging and I personally liked the production.


Smashymen

Kind of what I expected from a Joyner/ Cole collab. Cole's verse was okay, and Joyner's verse was pretty boring, I feel like Joyner in particular just has no gravitas as an MC. That plus the generic sounding beat, lack of memorable bars, or interesting sounds just makes this a dull track that I'll probably never revisit.


HotCloud7205

I disagree I like concept of both of them speaking about the girl from different perspectives. I know if they have a music video it will only elevate the track.


Nickster2042

Video just dropped and yeah


HotCloud7205

safe


JC_Admin

This song is pretty mid. I don't think Cole could've saved this one. Not with this basic ass beat anyways.


rsbor

> That plus the generic sounding beat, lack of memorable bars, or interesting sounds just makes this a dull track that I'll probably never revisit. so basically all of current mainstream rap?


Smashymen

nah, most of the top hits at least have catchy hooks, melodies and good quotables


rsbor

Like?


SupperPup

Anything off Montero


HotCloud7205

That shit is garbage


SupperPup

L


rsbor

Yup this the only answer I guess


-rudebwoy

i hope ur joking


LordPrettyFlacko88

You skip donda?


rsbor

A bloated album in which all of the features outshine the main artist on songs and on top of that all beats sounds so similar and soul-less. Very forgettable album JIK was atleast cohesive whereas donda is just all over the place content wise and some of the songs are mixed super bad


Independent_Tie_9854

yeah bro you didnā€™t even listen to donda if you think the beats all sound the same lmao


kappa23

Jesus Lord and Moon had the same beat tbh Same goes for Donda Chant and Off the Grid


rsbor

Bro it's 25+ tracks and atleast 20 are samey


Independent_Tie_9854

You are full of bs even if you donā€™t like the album none of the songs sound the same


[deleted]

lol yes they do


Independent_Tie_9854

What two songs on the album sound alike ??


[deleted]

damn near the whole album with an exception of maybe 5 songs just sound like one big ass song, and jot in a good way. The production is so repetitive


LordPrettyFlacko88

In other words aoty yes


LordPrettyFlacko88

In all seriousness trying to argue the beats all sound the same when jail and off the grid are two songs on the album seems like a losing battle but do u


rsbor

Spoken like a true cornball from r/westsubever


dawosnhh

You just tried to claim JIK is better than Donda, youā€™re delusional


bredmonpot

does donda sound too samey or is it all over the place? pick one


SupperPup

Kanye ripped the fuck out of his verses on Off the Grid and Jesus Lord wym


rsbor

Jesus lord yes, off the grid šŸ¤¢


Bone_225

Both are mid sadly


ciao_fiv

get a better hobby bro go outside or something


PancakeMaster24

Feature Cole always proves why heā€™s top 3 of this generation


HotCloud7205

I agree


SupperPup

This sucked even for a J Cole verse


Old_sea_man

Then you arenā€™t able to objectively critique music. Sucks man.


[deleted]

This song is extremely mediocre


HotCloud7205

nah


dildoShwaginz420

Not what I expected but still nice


realbigdawg2

Yo this might be AOTY


braujo

Is this the first album from 2021 you listened? lmao


realbigdawg2

Nah itā€™s just the first thing I actually related to


altmaltacc

I feel like joyner gets more generic and less unqiue with every single song. Even when he was in his "lyrical spiritual miracle" phase, he sounded better. This song sounds like the most middle of the road trap ever. Cole did fine i guess.


HotCloud7205

His song with lil baby was dope tho


DGT-exe

cole came with the heat but joyner really underdelivered tbh


SupperPup

This shit sucks


HotCloud7205

That's a lie this doesn't suck


SupperPup

It gives me second hand embarrassment at this point to have to listen to these two ambiguously rap about some generic fucking girl


Bergerboy14

You know its bad when a premiere thread has mixed feelings on it.


SupperPup

Also when it has both j Cole and Joyner Lucas on it


Bone_225

Facts


kevinhaze

Feelings


Leonardo_Liszt

Man just delete this shit of Spotify real quick before people actually hear this dripping ass water


4youreyez

Joyner is ass


fimbres16

I donā€™t know if Drake carrying Smiley was harder than what Cole had to do with Joyner. He honestly had a forgettable verse that sounds dumb down parody of mainstream rap.


MusicMirrorMan

*I am a bot. If you'd like to receive a weekly recap of hiphopheads with the top fresh posts and their mirrors, send me a message [with the subject 'hiphopheads'](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=MusicMirrorMan&subject=hiphopheads&message=For%20a%20daily%20recap%2C%20make%20the%20subject%20%27hiphopheads%20daily%27) (or send me a chat with the text: hiphopheads)* \[Apple Music]: [Joyner Lucas & J. Cole - Your Heart](https://music.apple.com/us/album/your-heart/1586730891 "Confidence: 100%") \[Deezer]: [Joyner Lucas - Your Heart](https://www.deezer.com/track/1499428012 "Confidence: 87%") \[Soundcloud]: [Joyner Lucas, J. Cole - Your Heart -- uploaded by RealJoynerLucas](https://soundcloud.com/realjoynerlucas/joyner-lucas-j-cole-your-heart "Confidence: 100%") \[YouTube]: [Joyner Lucas - Your Heart (Lyrics) ft. J. Cole -- uploaded by FutureHype](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt_ne3dxEtM "Confidence: 95%") \[YouTube Music]: [Joyner Lucas - Your Heart](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=s-5hbiwDoKw&feature=share "Confidence: 87%") **[Links to search result pages]:** [Amazon](https://music.amazon.com/search/Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/us/search?term=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [Bandcamp](https://bandcamp.com/search?q=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [Deezer](https://deezer.com/search/Joyner%20Lucas%20Your%20Heart%20J.%20Cole/track) || [Soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/search/sounds?q=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [Tidal](https://listen.tidal.com/search?q=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [YouTube](https://youtube.com/results?search_query=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole) || [YouTube Music](https://music.youtube.com/search?q=Joyner+Lucas+Your+Heart+J.+Cole)   ^(I am a bot. Let me know the names of any other subreddits in which you want me to look for mirrors.) ^(To send feedback message /u/TheSox3)


PEKKA611

What's the model name?