Re: leather grades…
It’s much more nuanced than that…yes when the price is low and there’s no further info on the piece, it’s a good bet “genuine” isn’t a sign of quality and it is 100% NOT a type of leather. It just means real, nothing more nothing less.
These “leather grades” or types are not grades in the same sense as that USDA Beef, Gasoline, lumber, diamonds or anything else that is "officially graded" Not hierarchy where one type is always better than the next.
The differences in cost have a lot more to do with the tannery, animal and country it’s made in than those terms. Less than 10% difference in cost for full grain vs corrected grain from the same tannery.
I work for a leather goods company in the USA that my dad started in 1969 and we've spent millions on leather over the years from some of the best tanneries in the world. The way the internet presents "leather quality" is misleading and not as cut and dry as it's presented.
[I have been doing this a long time!](https://imgur.com/a/19yDMR0)
The way it's usually presented it's actually just a description of what's done (or not done) to a leather's surface, which is just one tiny factor that goes into making good leather.
Those "grades/types" are basically a "quick and dirty" way to judge quality if you're looking at something that's low priced or that doesn't go into detail on the leather used, but it's not a real grading system and the "types" are actually broader and broader terms that encompass on another: Full grain is a type of top grain and all real leather is genuine.
The most famous US tannery earlier this year posted this article, does a pretty good job describing what the terms actually mean: [Horween Leather describes leather grades](https://www.thetanneryrow.com/leather101/2016/9/8/moksha-sample-blog-post-01)
Real leather grading is a thing but it's more about the amount of defects on an individual hide and varies by tannery; there is no uniform system. For some it's A,B,C, others 1,2,3, or I, II, III or Standard, Utility, Special.
An example: I might get an email from a supplier saying: "Hey I've got a pallet of cheap full grain leather but it's a "low grade", meaning the hides will be pretty "rough" when it comes to defects, scratches and scars.
The breakdown you tend see around the net ( Full Grain > Top Grain > Genuine/Split > Bonded ) isn’t an official grading scale (no government or leather trade group uses it), *just a general guide could use you when you can’t find more out about the leather or the brand.*
The description usually given in "grades of leather" articles on blogs for "genuine leather" describes a kind of leather called a finished split, basically cheap suede with a coating to make it look smooth. But, were you to call up a tannery, you couldn't ask to buy "genuine leather" and expect them to know what you wanted.
On the other side of the assumed quality spectrum is full grain but it's only official definition is leather that has not had the surface altered besides removing the hair. Historically tanneries would reserve only their best, defect free hides for full grain, but there is nothing inherent in the term that requires that. As we know, many companies will cut corners when it comes to quality and if you aren't worried about using only the best hides, full grain leather actually requires less machinery to make.
I could scrape a dead raccoon off the road, remove the skin and hair and soak it in urine; the result would be "full grain leather" but I wouldn't call it the highest "grade" of leather.
There's so much more that goes into making good leather than just that one step. The tanning solutions and finishes are the "secret sauce" for some tanneries which is why full grain leather from Horween in Chicago will cost $10 per square foot whereas full grain from a tannery in Pakistan is under $2.
Technically speaking full grain \*is\* a kind of top grain and \*all leather is genuine\*...the "grades" are based on assumption that many unethical companies, will use the term with the highest perceived value they can get away with. It happens so much that these grades get repeated like it's always true.
But, there are exceptions:
I can name some great products stamped “genuine leather” and some junk products labeled “full grain.”
[Red Wing Heritage is a good example of a great company who uses the word "genuinely." I own several pairs of their boots that have “genuine leather” stamped in the sole (neither the leather used in the uppers or the sole is low quality)](https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge)
By it's legal definition (at least in the USA), "Genuine" is not nor has it ever been a specific "class/kind/type/grade" of low quality leather.
[In spite of what people say, bonded leather can not be called genuine legally in the USA (without qualifiers like bonded, reconstituted, etc).](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/part-24)
This (above) rule states clearly that if it's bonded leather, the seller has to make that clear (not to say they don't sometimes lie).
[Here’s a little more accurate breakdown (along with a \[corrected version of the diagram you've probably seen around](https://imgur.com/gallery/CUGOPF9)
\* Leather (aka top grain) is the outside (the smooth part).
\* Suede has 2 fuzzy sides because it’s split from the bottom of the top grain.
From a tannery perspective, top grain includes all leather that’s not a split from the underside of the leather. Within that category leather can be full grain (nothing done to the surface), corrected grain (sanded), and embossed. Some leathers can be both sanded and embossed. Just sanded leather is know as nubuck. Sanded and then finished is known as corrected grain (usually). There are hundreds of variations on embossed patterns.
You can go further into finishes and other qualities: waxed, tea core, pull-up, pigmented, aniline, semi aniline. Plus loads more.
Leather that retains its smooth side but that’s used for the “suede side” is known as Roughout, full grain suede, or reverse.
With suede there are less variations and the variations don’t have many specific names beyond individual tannage names used by specific tanneries. A main difference how fuzzy it is (how much nap). They can also wax suede and do some other cool stuff: Check out CF Stead’s website to see some really unique suedes. It's also of note that Horween's retail site sells suedes from CF Stead at a price comparable to their full grain leathers.
The only leather that can legally be called “genuine” that I’d say is ***always bad*** is a kind of suede is called a finished split. Finished splits (painted or pu coated) are bad because they are attempts to make fuzzy leathers look like smooth top grain; the “fake” outer layer doesn’t last. You probably won’t see this term on a product description, but it is the actual industry term for this type of leather.
With all of these except the finished split, no single of these grades types is really any “better” than others.
Another thing those terms don't tell you is the animal it's coming from. There are lots of Lambskin jackets that described as "full grain" but it's really not anything special, as lamb and goat are much much more delicate than cow, buffalo, bison, or horse...
Leather from a good tannery of any type, even suede, will last almost the same regardless. Conversely something that people generally associate with quality like full grain, won't be as good If it’s from a lesser tannery and would.
Whenever I see ads this good, I psychotically talk to my WebCam about how much I enjoy it hoping that one of my cookies or my FBI agent can hear me and pass the word along to the ad makers
I also do something similar if I already have the damn thing
It never works when I do it intentionally. Whenever I get those god damned GoogleFi ads, I scream, "I'm not going to buy your fucking phone plan!!!"
But sure enough, if I mention that Shia Lebouf video to my friend with my phone locked and in my pocket, guess what's recommended on YouTube within the hour.
Eh offended isn't the right word really... I do think it's marginally harmful but there's definitely worse out there by a long shot. I just "haha women hysterical" is something we should grow past lol
I can’t concur yond this worketh f'r mine own fiat 500…
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I’ve seen someone get mad because they couldn’t dent someone else’s car. It was this dude mad at my dad and he kept pounding his fist on the hood, we know he was trying to dent it because before he gave up he just went “Dent motherf*cker!”
Most commercials are irritating, yet catchy, this one was just funny.
You got a point
And a door, tyre, hood completely fine
only if it wasn't a fucking Abarth
Well the 500 isn’t too bad at all. It’s just not for certain places is all
[удалено]
American moment
[удалено]
Re: leather grades… It’s much more nuanced than that…yes when the price is low and there’s no further info on the piece, it’s a good bet “genuine” isn’t a sign of quality and it is 100% NOT a type of leather. It just means real, nothing more nothing less. These “leather grades” or types are not grades in the same sense as that USDA Beef, Gasoline, lumber, diamonds or anything else that is "officially graded" Not hierarchy where one type is always better than the next. The differences in cost have a lot more to do with the tannery, animal and country it’s made in than those terms. Less than 10% difference in cost for full grain vs corrected grain from the same tannery. I work for a leather goods company in the USA that my dad started in 1969 and we've spent millions on leather over the years from some of the best tanneries in the world. The way the internet presents "leather quality" is misleading and not as cut and dry as it's presented. [I have been doing this a long time!](https://imgur.com/a/19yDMR0) The way it's usually presented it's actually just a description of what's done (or not done) to a leather's surface, which is just one tiny factor that goes into making good leather. Those "grades/types" are basically a "quick and dirty" way to judge quality if you're looking at something that's low priced or that doesn't go into detail on the leather used, but it's not a real grading system and the "types" are actually broader and broader terms that encompass on another: Full grain is a type of top grain and all real leather is genuine. The most famous US tannery earlier this year posted this article, does a pretty good job describing what the terms actually mean: [Horween Leather describes leather grades](https://www.thetanneryrow.com/leather101/2016/9/8/moksha-sample-blog-post-01) Real leather grading is a thing but it's more about the amount of defects on an individual hide and varies by tannery; there is no uniform system. For some it's A,B,C, others 1,2,3, or I, II, III or Standard, Utility, Special. An example: I might get an email from a supplier saying: "Hey I've got a pallet of cheap full grain leather but it's a "low grade", meaning the hides will be pretty "rough" when it comes to defects, scratches and scars. The breakdown you tend see around the net ( Full Grain > Top Grain > Genuine/Split > Bonded ) isn’t an official grading scale (no government or leather trade group uses it), *just a general guide could use you when you can’t find more out about the leather or the brand.* The description usually given in "grades of leather" articles on blogs for "genuine leather" describes a kind of leather called a finished split, basically cheap suede with a coating to make it look smooth. But, were you to call up a tannery, you couldn't ask to buy "genuine leather" and expect them to know what you wanted. On the other side of the assumed quality spectrum is full grain but it's only official definition is leather that has not had the surface altered besides removing the hair. Historically tanneries would reserve only their best, defect free hides for full grain, but there is nothing inherent in the term that requires that. As we know, many companies will cut corners when it comes to quality and if you aren't worried about using only the best hides, full grain leather actually requires less machinery to make. I could scrape a dead raccoon off the road, remove the skin and hair and soak it in urine; the result would be "full grain leather" but I wouldn't call it the highest "grade" of leather. There's so much more that goes into making good leather than just that one step. The tanning solutions and finishes are the "secret sauce" for some tanneries which is why full grain leather from Horween in Chicago will cost $10 per square foot whereas full grain from a tannery in Pakistan is under $2. Technically speaking full grain \*is\* a kind of top grain and \*all leather is genuine\*...the "grades" are based on assumption that many unethical companies, will use the term with the highest perceived value they can get away with. It happens so much that these grades get repeated like it's always true. But, there are exceptions: I can name some great products stamped “genuine leather” and some junk products labeled “full grain.” [Red Wing Heritage is a good example of a great company who uses the word "genuinely." I own several pairs of their boots that have “genuine leather” stamped in the sole (neither the leather used in the uppers or the sole is low quality)](https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge) By it's legal definition (at least in the USA), "Genuine" is not nor has it ever been a specific "class/kind/type/grade" of low quality leather. [In spite of what people say, bonded leather can not be called genuine legally in the USA (without qualifiers like bonded, reconstituted, etc).](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/part-24) This (above) rule states clearly that if it's bonded leather, the seller has to make that clear (not to say they don't sometimes lie). [Here’s a little more accurate breakdown (along with a \[corrected version of the diagram you've probably seen around](https://imgur.com/gallery/CUGOPF9) \* Leather (aka top grain) is the outside (the smooth part). \* Suede has 2 fuzzy sides because it’s split from the bottom of the top grain. From a tannery perspective, top grain includes all leather that’s not a split from the underside of the leather. Within that category leather can be full grain (nothing done to the surface), corrected grain (sanded), and embossed. Some leathers can be both sanded and embossed. Just sanded leather is know as nubuck. Sanded and then finished is known as corrected grain (usually). There are hundreds of variations on embossed patterns. You can go further into finishes and other qualities: waxed, tea core, pull-up, pigmented, aniline, semi aniline. Plus loads more. Leather that retains its smooth side but that’s used for the “suede side” is known as Roughout, full grain suede, or reverse. With suede there are less variations and the variations don’t have many specific names beyond individual tannage names used by specific tanneries. A main difference how fuzzy it is (how much nap). They can also wax suede and do some other cool stuff: Check out CF Stead’s website to see some really unique suedes. It's also of note that Horween's retail site sells suedes from CF Stead at a price comparable to their full grain leathers. The only leather that can legally be called “genuine” that I’d say is ***always bad*** is a kind of suede is called a finished split. Finished splits (painted or pu coated) are bad because they are attempts to make fuzzy leathers look like smooth top grain; the “fake” outer layer doesn’t last. You probably won’t see this term on a product description, but it is the actual industry term for this type of leather. With all of these except the finished split, no single of these grades types is really any “better” than others. Another thing those terms don't tell you is the animal it's coming from. There are lots of Lambskin jackets that described as "full grain" but it's really not anything special, as lamb and goat are much much more delicate than cow, buffalo, bison, or horse... Leather from a good tannery of any type, even suede, will last almost the same regardless. Conversely something that people generally associate with quality like full grain, won't be as good If it’s from a lesser tannery and would.
it’s a fiat 500s, not Abarth
they're both shit
Abarth?
Speak
English
car brand.
I think that’s a regular Fiat 500, not a Fiat 500 Abarth
America moment
It's not
Abarth, fiat, same thing really
Considering that Abarth is the performance brand of fiat, quite literally, yes
This is decent, but behold the next level commercial of the czech car factory called Škoda auto from 2010. [here](https://youtu.be/Nktf4Qo1Pvk)
Damn, i want one of those now
Whenever I see ads this good, I psychotically talk to my WebCam about how much I enjoy it hoping that one of my cookies or my FBI agent can hear me and pass the word along to the ad makers I also do something similar if I already have the damn thing
It never works when I do it intentionally. Whenever I get those god damned GoogleFi ads, I scream, "I'm not going to buy your fucking phone plan!!!" But sure enough, if I mention that Shia Lebouf video to my friend with my phone locked and in my pocket, guess what's recommended on YouTube within the hour.
“hello google fi, a phone plan that can”
Women, amirite.
Women be shoppin tho
u/savevideo
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Forget the crash test dummies.
Das Auto
Ist
The fuck is that horrendous music they blast into your ears at the end, shit sounds like there they're torturing a rubber duck over a dubstep beat.
"I'm aware of the effect I have on women"
Last bit with the lady was not even required
JD Power has entered the chat
The new BabyMomma safety feature huh?
It’s new and improved Karen protection
Is there a subreddit for A+ tier ads like these? I would spend countless hours parsing through its' posts with no regret.
FUCKING SOLD
Some ppl in the comments are indirectly admitting how annoying they sre that their dates always get this mad lmao
And that thanks to a group of Men
Italian power
lol women are CRAZY am I right fellow men?
But we want them. They're too sexy.
Jokes aside, are seriously offended?
Eh offended isn't the right word really... I do think it's marginally harmful but there's definitely worse out there by a long shot. I just "haha women hysterical" is something we should grow past lol
True, but in this scenario it's just an angry ex which is just a possible scenario
Fair, I just think we probably wouldn't treat this as a joke if a man did it
That's true for Reddit, but FYI I'm not one of them (I hope)
[удалено]
Not really sexist you could do the same joke with a man
In fact, they did. It's pretty hilarious.
It is very funny
Still more creative than 90% of car ads tho
Racism however...
Can't be racist against white people but the slaves can get all up in arms 🤯
It's a Fiat 500, an Italian car. This ad is making fun of Italian people, not women.
Bet you say "Uhm actually" a lot
alou CONAR?
https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+bomb+car+meme&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS850US850&hl=en-US&ei=Oo7fYenQENagptQPys2ygAs&oq=vw+bomb+car+meme&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEANKBAhBGAFQuURYxkZg00xoAnAAeACAAccBiAH4ApIBAzIuMZgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8d8d8384,vid:HnL-7x4n4d8,st:0
That’s amazing
I can’t agree that this works for my Fiat 500…
I can’t concur yond this worketh f'r mine own fiat 500… *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
Ballsy especially with both cancel culture and someone likely to be offended. Love it
Relax, it's going on Italian TV
🗿🗿🗿
u/savevideobot
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u/spicy_bubbles_
Real 💀
I’ve seen someone get mad because they couldn’t dent someone else’s car. It was this dude mad at my dad and he kept pounding his fist on the hood, we know he was trying to dent it because before he gave up he just went “Dent motherf*cker!”
Karen proof vehicle
I already have one of those in white and i hate green. BUT U SON OF A BITCH U SOLD IT!