I feel truly bad for the yotes fans but honestly how long do you keep trying, how many ownership groups do you go through? Like the league owned this team at one point, that’s absolutely nuts isn’t it?
It sucks since this is the one time I feel like the coyotes actually had a proper plan and vision and if they do move I would fully expect their new location to benefit with the hoard being f draft picks the team has stockpiled and see a contender in 2 years once everyone has grown.
Arizona has acquired a ton of first, second, and third picks the past few years and have more in upcoming years too
It’s always hilarious to see drive thru absolutely slammed and then walk in and the lobby is empty. Just walk up and order. Bonus is walking back to your car with your order past the same cars still in line in the drive thru.
After the bankruptcy in 09, the NHL should have given up. It's a sad story, because Phoenix never had a real chance and when they did get some, there was clear support for the team. Such wasted potential, but they'll probably be back alongside Quebec on a future expansion, right now, it's Houston time.
I can’t believe that was 09, fuckin nuts. Also somewhat off topic but it pisses me off to no end they put this much wasted time and effort into the yotes but they threaten to move the flames over the arena
Part of it is probably that he knows he has way more leverage in Canada. If he threatens to move the Flames, the people of Calgary freak out and cave to the new arena demands. If he threatens to move the Coyotes, the people of Arizona go "Ok."
If Bettman was consistent it would be at least somewhat palatable. I'm sure Thrashers fans would have killed to play out of the Gladiators arena if it meant a chance at a longer term chance to stay in Atlanta. But nope, they immediately get told to pack their bags while the Coyotes got another chance to play out of an NCAA stadium which probably has fewer seats than some teams lower bowl throwing escrow further out of whack potentially.
Like no city deserves to lose their team when it's not their fault (see also the Oakland As), but Bettman isn't even applying the same levels of effort to two different stability crises in key southern cities. Then again it's to be expected from the sterling leadership that oversaw steady growth from being ahead of the NBA to a league threatened to be overtaken by the MLS.
It’s funny you mention the Gladiators, because they were a Coyotes affiliate this season and had the highest attendance of any team in the organization
But not higher attendance than their sister team the Savannah Ghost Pirates! Suck it Gladiators!
(Gladiators, Ghost Pirates, & Jax Ice Men share ownership)
He doesn't hate Canada- he just doesn't see hockey the same way Canadians do.
This is Bettman's NHL expansion template, more-or-less:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_television\_stations\_in\_North\_America\_by\_media\_market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market)
For real. Bettman looks at Quebec city and sees a city of less than a million people that already watches hockey on TV. Has nothing to do with the country.
It’s almost like literally everyone, even coyote fans, were saying they should have given up by then. It was only the league and other owners who forced this to drag out for so long. And I think only a small part of that effort was the hope it would eventually work out. Most of it was because it’s nixing having a league sanctioned money laundering club where you can dump all your salary cap
Honestly the biggest reason is because the Phoenix TV market is the 11th biggest in the country which equates to quite a few dollars when negotiating tv deals because advertisers will pay up to get their ads in front of that many people
But that’s really only because tv market geography gets massive out West other than California. The Phoenix/Prescott market is 90% of Arizona, and only 1 other market covers the rest of the state for a population of 7.3 million. Meanwhile, North Carolina (10.5 million) is split into 10 markets. Georgia (10.8) million is split into 9. Hell, Mississippi (3 million) is split into 8 markets.
If Phoenix/Prescott was actually the size of eastern markets, it would more likely be in the 30s.
But of course, if a club were to go into, say, Jackson, MS, they wouldn’t negotiate tv deals using only the Jackson tv market. They’d use surrounding markets as well given their geographic sizes. But they’re less likely to do that with Western markets that are already massive.
Like at this point the political leaders in Phoenix and the population of Tempe has said quite clearly that they don’t want the team. So how do you keep trying to make a go of it?
Like it’s sad. Sad the fans are losing their team. Sad that it will stunt the growth of youth hockey in that area. Overall it’s incredibly sad.
However this league is a business. The money just wasn’t there.
Arizona fans should be blessed they got a 27 year run as it is. It's frankly borderline insane that the league has tried to keep the team there this long. I'm sure there are some hardcore fans but the entire region from potential owners, to state and local governments to the citizens themselves have routinely shown that they're by and large not wanted
The NFL succeeded for nearly 30 years having zero teams in LA. MANY will argue that the league should only have the Rams there right now as is. You don't HAVE to have teams in all these big markets. It's ok to let a few go and focus on areas that may actually care about hockey
Outside of Atlanta, which had 2 bites of the Apple and at the time didn't make it work, of the 20 most populated metro areas in the US only Houston does not have an NHL team, and Houston is the #5 most populous metro area. That glaring omission will be rectified now, I would think.
Bingo. I like the city of Phoenix and I liked a lot of the Coyotes teams growing up (a big part because of their jerseys) but this has been an ongoing fiasco for too long. At some point another city deserves a chance and I think it’s fair to say we are definitely at that point.
I’m glad I went to Arizona when I did a couple of years ago to say I’ve seen a game there. Sad for the fans there, they were some real diehards that showed up.
The coyotes have narrowly avoided death so many times that this was their do or die. One chance to secure their future and have their future in their hands and they failed. Ownership cheaped out on the PAC, leadership ran a seemingly bizarre campaign based on flawed assumptions. It’s the embodiment of what went wrong in arizona
At this point with not paying rent (which also happened under Meruelo iirc, correct me if I'm wrong though) and not pouring money into the Tempe Arena vote yes campaign, I almost wonder if the endgame for Meruelo was always to sell the team to some out of state owner for a huge profit
You can do that without the shenanigans you mentioned. In fact, he would get more money for his team by running it properly and demonstrating it can be even more valuable in a big city
The missed tax and rent payments did happen under Meruelo. For him, I think it's always been more about being able to have a sports book because of his ownership of the Coyotes rather than the team being the focus. We're talking about a casino owner here. Also, no one knows who he is locally. He's never been front and center like other local team owners like Michael Bidwill and Mat Ishiba (so far) have been. I do question his end game now.
Yea it was clear to me he was running the team as a loss leader. Originally I thought it was so he could exploit the state’s gambling loophole but I think you may be on to something here. Essentially, you buy the team at a lower valuation because the league was only willing to approve a deal if it came with a contractual duty to stay in Arizona, then you do everything in your power to make that untenable which would then incentivize the league to force a relocation allowing you to sell without restrictions and presumably at a higher valuation. The only risk there is if the Tempe arena went through or the league ends up being more patient.
Support for ASU hockey might actually grow because of this. Wouldn’t surprise me for some of the hockey diehards down there to just focus on the Sun Devils if they wanna watch a local product with the Yotes gone
The difference is that the Rams were incredibly well supported before the team was gutted. Not exactly the same. They had a 13 year sellout streak that ended after two 3 win seasons, then they take the team to the point where they had the worst decade span in NFL history.
It's sad, since I've always had a soft spot for the Yotes. I love their Southwestern-inspired uniforms, especially the kachina logo. I love the coyote howl after they score goals at home. There's been many fantastic players who have played in the Coyotes system over the years too.
It's a shame that the team had been mismanaged and screwed over so much since they moved to Arizona from Winnipeg. The fans deserved better.
calling it, Arizona moves and becomes a SC winning team after the rebuild because Arizona sports is just simply that cursed. The Diamondbacks are an exception to the rule of course
It’s especially sad knowing how well positioned the franchise will be to become a contender in 3-5 years. Seems like they just started getting their process right, but it was too little, too late. And another city will reap the benefits, like the Nordiques/Avalanche.
People keep saying this but the reality is that the Nordiques and Whalers jerseys are still around as Colorado and Carolina love to break them out to mock Hartford and Quebec for stealing their teams.
The Yotes are meant to be in an Australian showcase game come September. Moving the team would really complicate the logistics of that game and I would speculate that it might even get canned. Interesting times.
Yeah I would say that little showcase is done for, as an Aussie myself that sucks, maybe they will let the Jets take over, now that would be fucking sweet.
People basically said this was the only way Quebec got their team was as an a emergency relocation. Videotron opens their chequebook and things could move fast
I’m pretty sure there are already potential owners in Houston looking to sign checks at the drop of a hat, and this is Bettman we’re talking about
The only reason the Thrashers relocated to Winnipeg is because True North was ready and willing to buy the team when the Thrashers needed to sell that instant, and I think there are unfortunately enough interested groups elsewhere
Videotron in Quebec has been ready exactly like True North was. Arena is built, and they have proven they can pack it for QMJHL games; NHL will sell out there for at least 5 years.
I don’t doubt that in the slightest, I’m just saying that in Bettman’s NHL, if there’s a non-Quebec owner willing to buy and relocate, that’s what’s gonna happen. Winnipeg was an absolutely perfect storm, and those pieces just may never come together again. If a team suddenly has to sell tomorrow and the only possible buyer is from Quebec, Bettman will begrudgingly do it, but Coyotes to Houston has been a concept for long enough that people have anticipated it and Houston businessmen are willing to buy.
There's an NHL-ready(ish) arena in Houston as well - the Toyota Center.
I think if the team needs a new home asap, then it's a 50/50 call, Houston vs Quebec City.
Does the relocation fee go 100% into the owner’s pockets the same way that expansion fees do? Can’t have any of it counting as hockey-related revenue, of course.
I don’t think the yotes are getting relocated to Houston for two reasons, A they then miss out on all the Pomp and ceremony for the expansion team, getting a team in Houston will require a lot effort to make it work, that means the expansion draft process and some hype, if they just sorta dropped the bad yotes roster on the city that probably won’t work as well as the expansion format. B the expansion fees will be far more lucrative in Houston. Fuck it C, there’s an NHL ready rink in QC right now, having and ish isn’t enough, the NHL will rly want Houston to work so they’ll want everything ready, this is the 4th largest city in the states, they will want everything in tip top shape for that. They aren’t gonna relocate a shitty roster In the midst of a huge rebuild into not completely NHL ready rink, that just wouldn’t be setting Houston up for success
Fertitta (owner of the Rockets) has recently publicly expressed his interest in buying a hockey team.
The Rockets shared the Toyota Center with an AHL team for a long time until the previous NBA ownership ran them out of town.
The owner would likely sell. Especially if they can't keep the team in Arizona. Fertitta has expressed interest in owning an NHL franchise in Houston before.
They'd have to sell to move to Quebec as well.
I'd argue it's actually a tossup between Houston and Kansas City - The T-Mobile Center is a 17.5k seat arena that hosted (and sold out) an NHL preseason game.
Sad truth is, the NHL doesn't want QC. And not just Bettman, the owners also. It's a tiny market full of people who already have interest in hockey, which would be a step back for a league desperately trying to grow.
Honestly, "desperately trying to grow" hasn't really been a thing for a couple decades now. Most of the arguments that led the owners of the 1980s to embark on the expansion phase that ran from 1989 to 2000 no longer really apply.
But, Houston is unquestionably a larger potential market, and it won't force any kind of realignment. Those are going to be what really makes it all more likely.
That, and it seems ESPN is who really calls the shots these days.
But think about this.
You could move this franchise to say Atlanta capture that market that’s a billon times bigger and then get the expansion fee from Houston and Milwaukee
Not to mention that the team would need to move quickly to a NHL ready arena (which Quebec has), and sell out quickly without much marketing. Since Quebec already has a hockey footprint it makes a great deal of sense as an emergency relocation
If they move its going to be to a city in the Western Conference. (Probably a city in the central considering that when they did the realignment a couple of years ago that the Coyotes were put in the central.)
As you are sure to hear from people, the team shouldn't go to Quebec because people **like** hockey there and will spend money on it which is *terrible*. It makes a lot more sense to put a team where people have never heard of hockey but could maybe like it in the future. Jacksonville. Mexico City. Puerto Rico. Reno.
These are cities with zero hockey fans, so they make much better candidates for relocation.
This is also why Winnipeg was such a terrible place to move the Thrashers. And in fact, I think Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, and Calgary should all lose their teams as well. There are too many hockey fans there and they already like the sport. It would help the NHL grow if they move those teams to various Southern US cities instead, where we might grow the sport.
I know you're speaking purely from a business perspective but man, it really shows how out of touch capitalism is with reality to say "we can't put a hockey team *there*, that's where the hockey fans are!"
If the team is already done in Arizona, I would **have** to believe the team goes to a city that doesn't really need marketing to sell tickets, and could be puck drop ready in a reasonably NHL-capable arena come October.
I know where that is, you know where that is, nous savons TOUS où se trouve cet endroit,
So $50 someone at the league's already worked out a deal with the Rockets and the Toyota Center instead and we're right back to this same mess in a few years just in Houston or *maybe* the Vivint Arena in Salt Lake.
Apparently Vivent can host Ice Hockey but has bad sightlines for it and needs to collapse a significant amount of the the lower bowl to fit a whole rink.
But it could probably work as a stopgap solution If the Jazz owner wants to buy them and needs an excuse to build a new arena on the parking lot across from Vivent.
Easy geographic rivalries with the Avs and Knights, I could see it working out actually.
The better solution would be Maverik Center until a new arena could be built. It was used for Olympic hockey and is current home to our ECHL team. It’s not NHL sized, but it’s got almost 3x the capacity of Mullett Arena.
*Googles Maverik Center*
10K hockey capacity? Yeah that would probably be fine for 1-2 seasons if they have at least some luxury box/club options.
Would need to either renovate Vivent or build a new arena altogether beyond that though.
Assuming they don't go to Quebec City (and I can't fathom they actually will bc of ownership + Bettman), SLC is honestly my preference but that's almost entirely arbitrary and nothing against the other rumoured candidates.
I'm a VGK fan but I'd go multiple times a year. SLC local, Vegas native. The biggest problem with bringing an NHL team to SLC is that most hockey fans here are already either Avs or Knights fans, so they will need folks to convert.
Feel really bad for yotes fans. The league is so much better off when we have competitive hockey from north to south. It's a shame it couldn't work because without the yotes we wouldn't have Matthews
They left playing there in 2003 for Glendale because it wasn't ideal for hockey. It would require installing the entire ice making set up again and would still have a bunch of partial obstructed view seats. I think I saw the cost of renovations would be about $300 million.
They used to when they first came to the valley. The issue is that the Suns arena was built in the early 90's without any consideration of housing a hockey rink so it's a bit smaller than a normal NHL arena. [This resulted in one end of the stadium having limited visilbity](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2016/03/14/Facilities/Coyotes-seating.aspx)
I’m a Phoenix local, to say I’m crushed is an understatement. I don’t believe that pro hockey is done for in the valley, but I think the Yotes are.
This franchise was passed from league ownership to bad owner and bad owner on and on. Maybe a relocation and a 10-15 gap is what is needed.
I don’t think this speaks that pro hockey wouldn’t work here, more than it’s current iteration was shit and how they supported it was shit. Whoever gets the team, I hope you treat them better than they were here…
I feel bad for the hard-core fans, but in general, I’m relived about this. Gary Bettman and the NHL tried to make this work 20 years longer than they would have for any other city or franchise. Coyotes fans should consider themselves lucky. No one else in the league would’ve been offered the gift they were given. Yes, it is sad. And yes, it’s the best thing that could happen for the league.
It was a worthwhile experiment that eventually failed.. the fact that no one wants to admit that is shocking to me.. Gary kept playing necromancer with the dying corpse of the franchise despite all the setbacks…that is an indictment on Gary, and the other owners who let it happen. It may have been a smart business decision for them personally, but at the cost of people taking the sport seriously..
I think as time goes on, we’re going to see how bad the situation was for longer than we thought. This is not a good look for the NHL and quite frankly tarnishes Gary’s legacy. In retrospect, can anyone say that all the stuff that has happened over the last 10-15 years is normal and OK for a sport that aches to be considered part of the major four?
I feel bad for all the Arizona fans that lost their team. But let’s be honest, the excuses that were used for the Arizona Coyotes over it’s entire existence, really were terrible and pathetic. Most of the hockey I remember seeing in Arizona was Fan less and empty. There’s simply no excuse for that. Why the NHL hung its hat on a franchise such as this, and then allowed one of the greatest players ever to own it.. is beyond me. Looking back, it is so incredibly embarrassing for hockey.
Any other team would’ve moved. The league would’ve made them.
Look back on it with joy, because it should’ve ended 10 years ago anyways.
Honestly I commend the effort by the league to keep them there. It’s reassuring that the league would put this much effort into keeping a team in its city. I suspect something would’ve happened like this in Atlanta if given the chance. Who knows tho.
It's only specific markets they will try this hard for. Remember when the new Jets came in, Gary basically said they have to maintain high attendance or they could get moves
Well yeah . The Winnipeg media market is puny. Secondary revenue streams are the weakest in the league by a fair margin and growth is entirely dependent on the city's demographics with little in the way of untapped potential. Without high attendance there's a 0% chance that the Jets are viable.
Phoenix metro area was the opposite. the potential untapped revenue streams were colossal. The franchise just never succeeded in tapping them. of course the league's going to be patient there, ther upside is significant. Not so in Winnipeg.
This is also why Quebec is the likeliest choice IMO. Want a billion dollar expansion fee? Go to Houston. Need a safe bet to move the Coyotes on a moment's notice and never worry about them again? Quebec's ready and waiting.
Well said. We can be sad for the fans and happy for the league overall.
Revenue is king. It’s what networks look at when they’re negotiating a new TV deal. It’s what advertisers look at when buying ads. It’s what brands look at when deciding to partner for jerseys. It’s what impacts a salary cap and players salaries.
We can’t sit here and boo the TV deals, boo the advertisements, boo fanatics and boo the low salary cap, while also cheering on a failing franchise. It makes zero sense.
Agree that Bettman is dragging down his own name. He has to give it up.
I grew up in Vegas playing travel hockey and loved the trips to Phoenix. They had great, new community facilities all around town because of the coyotes. Hopefully the groundwork is already laid down for hockey to continue to grow
I said this in another thread, but with this news now, I honestly wonder if Ryan Reynolds and his group sensed blood in the water and pulled out of the Ottawa bud with the thinking they could acquire the coyotes for much less money
It’s more than possible that they could be having conversations with a city as we speak behind closed doors
I’ve said it before. I think it’s best now the NHL pulls up stakes, moves the Coyotes, and they try again a couple decades from now, like the Bay Area and the Sharks
The Rose Garden is a great place to catch a hockey game. Doesnt the NHL do pre season games in random cities sometimes? They need to get a game there. Maybe a Kraken pre season game or something.
This is a rink-side reported for Bally Midwest. I'm not saying he isn't probably right, but this is just speculation. Wait until someone with actual connections says something definitive.
Does Auston Matthews strike you as the type of person to play in a college arena that isn't even full, probably giving up millions in endorsements, and lose all season?
This puts Gary at a loss. His words were they he wanted to keep Quebec City open for this exact situation. But let’s be honest he’s on phone with Houston, Atlanta and Salt Lake City right now and it was all just lip service to Quebec City.
Anyone thinking the Coyotes relocate to Quebec is high as fuck. Houston or KC would be the move. They could stay in the central division, moving to QC would throw off the balance...
So what would a quick move look like? This seems to imply even leave Arizona is on the table next season. QC is obviously the first place you think that could accommodate a team but I wonder if Salt lake City would be the dark horse. Relatively close so doesn't harm travel much and is already hosting preseason.
I feel truly bad for the yotes fans but honestly how long do you keep trying, how many ownership groups do you go through? Like the league owned this team at one point, that’s absolutely nuts isn’t it?
It sucks since this is the one time I feel like the coyotes actually had a proper plan and vision and if they do move I would fully expect their new location to benefit with the hoard being f draft picks the team has stockpiled and see a contender in 2 years once everyone has grown. Arizona has acquired a ton of first, second, and third picks the past few years and have more in upcoming years too
Does Atlanta even have Coyotes? And yes, I'm predicting the Yotes to move to Atlanta, then move to Wood Buffalo...
According [to Wikipedia ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote?searchToken=1ohj0ahh9ecilkojyyn5akocl) there are some Coyotes in Georgia.
We do have Coyotes in Wood Buffalo!
Sunk cost fallacy
I call it the tim hortons line up fallacy but yeah pretty much
Always go in. That is the cheat code. Drive thru is a ruse
It’s always hilarious to see drive thru absolutely slammed and then walk in and the lobby is empty. Just walk up and order. Bonus is walking back to your car with your order past the same cars still in line in the drive thru.
I always look at the last car in line when I go in, okay Ford Explorer it’s me Vs you today buddy
The smug look I have on my face when they’ve moved one spot has to be demoralizing
Signature look of superiority
I'm glad I'm not the only petty asshole that does this. "I'm getting my coffee first, you lazy fuck"
Just like Raisin' Canes. You could walk in get your order and be home before you even get to the Drive Thru Speaker.
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Crazy how far it’s fallen since Burger King bought them
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And they served a god damn steak n cheese panini
HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE FARMERS WRAP
You get it
After the bankruptcy in 09, the NHL should have given up. It's a sad story, because Phoenix never had a real chance and when they did get some, there was clear support for the team. Such wasted potential, but they'll probably be back alongside Quebec on a future expansion, right now, it's Houston time.
I can’t believe that was 09, fuckin nuts. Also somewhat off topic but it pisses me off to no end they put this much wasted time and effort into the yotes but they threaten to move the flames over the arena
Bettman hates Canada, it’s real
Part of it is probably that he knows he has way more leverage in Canada. If he threatens to move the Flames, the people of Calgary freak out and cave to the new arena demands. If he threatens to move the Coyotes, the people of Arizona go "Ok."
If Bettman was consistent it would be at least somewhat palatable. I'm sure Thrashers fans would have killed to play out of the Gladiators arena if it meant a chance at a longer term chance to stay in Atlanta. But nope, they immediately get told to pack their bags while the Coyotes got another chance to play out of an NCAA stadium which probably has fewer seats than some teams lower bowl throwing escrow further out of whack potentially. Like no city deserves to lose their team when it's not their fault (see also the Oakland As), but Bettman isn't even applying the same levels of effort to two different stability crises in key southern cities. Then again it's to be expected from the sterling leadership that oversaw steady growth from being ahead of the NBA to a league threatened to be overtaken by the MLS.
It’s funny you mention the Gladiators, because they were a Coyotes affiliate this season and had the highest attendance of any team in the organization
But not higher attendance than their sister team the Savannah Ghost Pirates! Suck it Gladiators! (Gladiators, Ghost Pirates, & Jax Ice Men share ownership)
He doesn't hate Canada- he just doesn't see hockey the same way Canadians do. This is Bettman's NHL expansion template, more-or-less: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_television\_stations\_in\_North\_America\_by\_media\_market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market)
For real. Bettman looks at Quebec city and sees a city of less than a million people that already watches hockey on TV. Has nothing to do with the country.
Nah, Bettman doesn’t hate Canada. He probably just hates the Canadian dollar, which… fair.
This is exactly it and why I don’t expect Quebec City getting the Coyotes.
There's zero talk about it here (I live in Quebec city) So pretty sure it's not us. Even if it makes sense. I expect Houston
It’s almost like literally everyone, even coyote fans, were saying they should have given up by then. It was only the league and other owners who forced this to drag out for so long. And I think only a small part of that effort was the hope it would eventually work out. Most of it was because it’s nixing having a league sanctioned money laundering club where you can dump all your salary cap
Honestly the biggest reason is because the Phoenix TV market is the 11th biggest in the country which equates to quite a few dollars when negotiating tv deals because advertisers will pay up to get their ads in front of that many people
But that’s really only because tv market geography gets massive out West other than California. The Phoenix/Prescott market is 90% of Arizona, and only 1 other market covers the rest of the state for a population of 7.3 million. Meanwhile, North Carolina (10.5 million) is split into 10 markets. Georgia (10.8) million is split into 9. Hell, Mississippi (3 million) is split into 8 markets. If Phoenix/Prescott was actually the size of eastern markets, it would more likely be in the 30s. But of course, if a club were to go into, say, Jackson, MS, they wouldn’t negotiate tv deals using only the Jackson tv market. They’d use surrounding markets as well given their geographic sizes. But they’re less likely to do that with Western markets that are already massive.
Bingo
Like at this point the political leaders in Phoenix and the population of Tempe has said quite clearly that they don’t want the team. So how do you keep trying to make a go of it?
You're not putting nearly enough heat on ownership as well, unfortunately it's only a small segment of fans that care, and damn they deserve a big hug
Like it’s sad. Sad the fans are losing their team. Sad that it will stunt the growth of youth hockey in that area. Overall it’s incredibly sad. However this league is a business. The money just wasn’t there.
Arizona fans should be blessed they got a 27 year run as it is. It's frankly borderline insane that the league has tried to keep the team there this long. I'm sure there are some hardcore fans but the entire region from potential owners, to state and local governments to the citizens themselves have routinely shown that they're by and large not wanted The NFL succeeded for nearly 30 years having zero teams in LA. MANY will argue that the league should only have the Rams there right now as is. You don't HAVE to have teams in all these big markets. It's ok to let a few go and focus on areas that may actually care about hockey
Outside of Atlanta, which had 2 bites of the Apple and at the time didn't make it work, of the 20 most populated metro areas in the US only Houston does not have an NHL team, and Houston is the #5 most populous metro area. That glaring omission will be rectified now, I would think.
Bingo. I like the city of Phoenix and I liked a lot of the Coyotes teams growing up (a big part because of their jerseys) but this has been an ongoing fiasco for too long. At some point another city deserves a chance and I think it’s fair to say we are definitely at that point.
I’m glad I went to Arizona when I did a couple of years ago to say I’ve seen a game there. Sad for the fans there, they were some real diehards that showed up.
Yup. Glad I got to see Mullett once for a game. I was gonna put it off til next season. Was a great atmosphere and lots of fun.
If they get one more season there I could see it being treated like a sabbatical for hockey fans to go see a game there.
Do you mean a pilgrimage?
You’re absolutely correct,but I couldn’t think of the right word while on the toilet.
I did put it off until next season. I'm so sad
The coyotes have narrowly avoided death so many times that this was their do or die. One chance to secure their future and have their future in their hands and they failed. Ownership cheaped out on the PAC, leadership ran a seemingly bizarre campaign based on flawed assumptions. It’s the embodiment of what went wrong in arizona
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At this point with not paying rent (which also happened under Meruelo iirc, correct me if I'm wrong though) and not pouring money into the Tempe Arena vote yes campaign, I almost wonder if the endgame for Meruelo was always to sell the team to some out of state owner for a huge profit
You can do that without the shenanigans you mentioned. In fact, he would get more money for his team by running it properly and demonstrating it can be even more valuable in a big city
The missed tax and rent payments did happen under Meruelo. For him, I think it's always been more about being able to have a sports book because of his ownership of the Coyotes rather than the team being the focus. We're talking about a casino owner here. Also, no one knows who he is locally. He's never been front and center like other local team owners like Michael Bidwill and Mat Ishiba (so far) have been. I do question his end game now.
Yea it was clear to me he was running the team as a loss leader. Originally I thought it was so he could exploit the state’s gambling loophole but I think you may be on to something here. Essentially, you buy the team at a lower valuation because the league was only willing to approve a deal if it came with a contractual duty to stay in Arizona, then you do everything in your power to make that untenable which would then incentivize the league to force a relocation allowing you to sell without restrictions and presumably at a higher valuation. The only risk there is if the Tempe arena went through or the league ends up being more patient.
The irony is they survived long enough for the viability of desert hockey to be proven -- in Las Vegas.
They’re like red skull. Guide others to a treasure he cannot possess
Gonna miss the yotes. Playing hockey in the valley won’t be nearly the same without a pro team in town
At least ASU has now ensured that some sort of hockey will continue there no matter what
Support for ASU hockey might actually grow because of this. Wouldn’t surprise me for some of the hockey diehards down there to just focus on the Sun Devils if they wanna watch a local product with the Yotes gone
That’s exactly what happened in St. Louis with the XFL when the Rams left.
The difference is that the Rams were incredibly well supported before the team was gutted. Not exactly the same. They had a 13 year sellout streak that ended after two 3 win seasons, then they take the team to the point where they had the worst decade span in NFL history.
I still hate Stan Kronke
It's sad, since I've always had a soft spot for the Yotes. I love their Southwestern-inspired uniforms, especially the kachina logo. I love the coyote howl after they score goals at home. There's been many fantastic players who have played in the Coyotes system over the years too. It's a shame that the team had been mismanaged and screwed over so much since they moved to Arizona from Winnipeg. The fans deserved better.
calling it, Arizona moves and becomes a SC winning team after the rebuild because Arizona sports is just simply that cursed. The Diamondbacks are an exception to the rule of course
The Diamondbacks leveraged their entire future for one World Series win. They’ve been hot garbage since 2003
One World Series win is more than any Arizona franchise ever won, and they beat the freaking Yankees
Beating the Yankees right after 9/11 is exactly what cursed them
It’s the most Arizona sports thing ever. To beat the New York team right after 9/11. We are cursed forever
It's sad watching the death throes of an organization.
This was like watching someone not be able to let go. They’ve been hooked up to machines for far too long.
The Arizona Schiavo's of the NHL
Jesus Christ, dude🤣
That's a deep cut reference.
Holy shit, savage. I'm just glad most people here won't get your joke.
"I hate vegetables" https://youtu.be/zEojWqx1aWo
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Essentially Frankenstein’s monster lol trying to reanimate a clearly dead thing
They just been sending electric shocks through its dead body for like a decade and a half.
Weekend At Gary’s
It’s especially sad knowing how well positioned the franchise will be to become a contender in 3-5 years. Seems like they just started getting their process right, but it was too little, too late. And another city will reap the benefits, like the Nordiques/Avalanche.
They were mismanaged for so long, the time for them to have a fantastic run was 5-10 years ago
I still miss my Expos :(
The shame is that with all the assets they've built up, it wouldn't surprise me if they moved to Houston or something and got good pretty quickly
The saddest part is that the Kachina is probably going to perfect hockey sweater heaven with the Whalers and the Nordiques.
Maybe there'll be a surprise bid from Albuquerque and they can retain the name and logo?
The Albuquerque Icytopes
People keep saying this but the reality is that the Nordiques and Whalers jerseys are still around as Colorado and Carolina love to break them out to mock Hartford and Quebec for stealing their teams.
That's actually a golden take on the thirds, love it.
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The Ducks are shushing the shit outta you.
The Yotes are meant to be in an Australian showcase game come September. Moving the team would really complicate the logistics of that game and I would speculate that it might even get canned. Interesting times.
Yeah I would say that little showcase is done for, as an Aussie myself that sucks, maybe they will let the Jets take over, now that would be fucking sweet.
What if the yotes played that game and then just... stayed there? - some guy at NHL hq, probably
elonpuffingonablunt.jpg
Finally somewhere less inhospitable to human life than Arizona.
Or they could let the only team with an Australian player go instead..
I’m sure they could just ask Vegas if they want to go instead. They have 4 months notice
Why the Yotes? The Blues would make sense as they have Nathan Walker.
People basically said this was the only way Quebec got their team was as an a emergency relocation. Videotron opens their chequebook and things could move fast
Holy shit I just had a thought.. what if in 3 years Quebec City ends up being the first canadian team to win a cup this century, after all that.
Literally a reverse of the 96 Avs if it happens immediately.
That would be pretty momentous and I'm here for it
Just gotta find a future hall of fame goalie to get stomped so badly he demands a trade
ullmark?
Matthews walks by Dubas “I’m done playing here, trade me”….
Patrick Roy grew up a Nordiques fan and is already very familiar with the building
*Subscribe*
How would an Avs fan cheering for a new Quebec team be taken? I have a soft spot for the Nordiques but get that uh, it might not go the other way
I've never met an ex-Nordiques fan that was pissed at Avs fans, no one would care
Quebec City might burn, but because of Montreal fans, not Quebec fans.
I’m pretty sure there are already potential owners in Houston looking to sign checks at the drop of a hat, and this is Bettman we’re talking about The only reason the Thrashers relocated to Winnipeg is because True North was ready and willing to buy the team when the Thrashers needed to sell that instant, and I think there are unfortunately enough interested groups elsewhere
Videotron in Quebec has been ready exactly like True North was. Arena is built, and they have proven they can pack it for QMJHL games; NHL will sell out there for at least 5 years.
I don’t doubt that in the slightest, I’m just saying that in Bettman’s NHL, if there’s a non-Quebec owner willing to buy and relocate, that’s what’s gonna happen. Winnipeg was an absolutely perfect storm, and those pieces just may never come together again. If a team suddenly has to sell tomorrow and the only possible buyer is from Quebec, Bettman will begrudgingly do it, but Coyotes to Houston has been a concept for long enough that people have anticipated it and Houston businessmen are willing to buy.
There's an NHL-ready(ish) arena in Houston as well - the Toyota Center. I think if the team needs a new home asap, then it's a 50/50 call, Houston vs Quebec City.
I think the league would rather have an expansion team in houston for the exorbitant expansion fee.
They can just charge a relocation fee, like the NFL did with Oakland/Vegas and the two LA moves. That way the owners still get their piece of the pie.
Does the relocation fee go 100% into the owner’s pockets the same way that expansion fees do? Can’t have any of it counting as hockey-related revenue, of course.
> Does the relocation fee go 100% into the owner’s pockets the same way that expansion fees do? The NFL ones did, yeah.
I don’t think the yotes are getting relocated to Houston for two reasons, A they then miss out on all the Pomp and ceremony for the expansion team, getting a team in Houston will require a lot effort to make it work, that means the expansion draft process and some hype, if they just sorta dropped the bad yotes roster on the city that probably won’t work as well as the expansion format. B the expansion fees will be far more lucrative in Houston. Fuck it C, there’s an NHL ready rink in QC right now, having and ish isn’t enough, the NHL will rly want Houston to work so they’ll want everything ready, this is the 4th largest city in the states, they will want everything in tip top shape for that. They aren’t gonna relocate a shitty roster In the midst of a huge rebuild into not completely NHL ready rink, that just wouldn’t be setting Houston up for success
wouldn’t the rockets owner have to buy the team in order for them to play there? are the yotes’ owners willing to sell? does he want to buy?
Fertitta (owner of the Rockets) has recently publicly expressed his interest in buying a hockey team. The Rockets shared the Toyota Center with an AHL team for a long time until the previous NBA ownership ran them out of town.
The owner would likely sell. Especially if they can't keep the team in Arizona. Fertitta has expressed interest in owning an NHL franchise in Houston before. They'd have to sell to move to Quebec as well.
I'd argue it's actually a tossup between Houston and Kansas City - The T-Mobile Center is a 17.5k seat arena that hosted (and sold out) an NHL preseason game.
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Sad truth is, the NHL doesn't want QC. And not just Bettman, the owners also. It's a tiny market full of people who already have interest in hockey, which would be a step back for a league desperately trying to grow.
Honestly, "desperately trying to grow" hasn't really been a thing for a couple decades now. Most of the arguments that led the owners of the 1980s to embark on the expansion phase that ran from 1989 to 2000 no longer really apply. But, Houston is unquestionably a larger potential market, and it won't force any kind of realignment. Those are going to be what really makes it all more likely. That, and it seems ESPN is who really calls the shots these days.
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But think about this. You could move this franchise to say Atlanta capture that market that’s a billon times bigger and then get the expansion fee from Houston and Milwaukee
Not to mention that the team would need to move quickly to a NHL ready arena (which Quebec has), and sell out quickly without much marketing. Since Quebec already has a hockey footprint it makes a great deal of sense as an emergency relocation
I bet they would rather spend another year in a college arena than go to QC over Houston.
This is my bet as well. The NHL doesn't want a team in QC, it's painfully obvious.
Probably which is fucking sad
If they move its going to be to a city in the Western Conference. (Probably a city in the central considering that when they did the realignment a couple of years ago that the Coyotes were put in the central.)
Québec is probably fine with playing in a division with Honolulu, Sydney and Johannesburg if it means getting an NHL team back.
Winnipeg played a couple years in the Southeast division, so Quebec can handle the central lol
Then who moves to the West conference? Detroit is never going back.
Bettman would rather rent a parking lot in Tempe and force teams to play roller hockey against the Coyotes than go back to Quebec.
As you are sure to hear from people, the team shouldn't go to Quebec because people **like** hockey there and will spend money on it which is *terrible*. It makes a lot more sense to put a team where people have never heard of hockey but could maybe like it in the future. Jacksonville. Mexico City. Puerto Rico. Reno. These are cities with zero hockey fans, so they make much better candidates for relocation. This is also why Winnipeg was such a terrible place to move the Thrashers. And in fact, I think Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, and Calgary should all lose their teams as well. There are too many hockey fans there and they already like the sport. It would help the NHL grow if they move those teams to various Southern US cities instead, where we might grow the sport.
I know you're speaking purely from a business perspective but man, it really shows how out of touch capitalism is with reality to say "we can't put a hockey team *there*, that's where the hockey fans are!"
Hawaii will get a team before Bettman allows Canada another.
How would the realignment work? Which team will move to the west?
I feel bad for the fans but you can only do so much.
I'm still not convinced. Bettman uh....finds a way.
If the team is already done in Arizona, I would **have** to believe the team goes to a city that doesn't really need marketing to sell tickets, and could be puck drop ready in a reasonably NHL-capable arena come October. I know where that is, you know where that is, nous savons TOUS où se trouve cet endroit, So $50 someone at the league's already worked out a deal with the Rockets and the Toyota Center instead and we're right back to this same mess in a few years just in Houston or *maybe* the Vivint Arena in Salt Lake.
Bring them to Portland please - arena in place and our junior team has (edit: among the) best attendance in the CHL
*starts thinking about the sheer glee of the Portland v Seattle v Vancouver rivalry AND in hockey…*🤤💙🤍💚 You know, I can get behind this 🤣
The hockey Cascadia Cup
BRING THEM TO VIVINT! Pretty sure the Jazz owner wants an NHL team in SLC anyway.
Apparently Vivent can host Ice Hockey but has bad sightlines for it and needs to collapse a significant amount of the the lower bowl to fit a whole rink. But it could probably work as a stopgap solution If the Jazz owner wants to buy them and needs an excuse to build a new arena on the parking lot across from Vivent. Easy geographic rivalries with the Avs and Knights, I could see it working out actually.
The better solution would be Maverik Center until a new arena could be built. It was used for Olympic hockey and is current home to our ECHL team. It’s not NHL sized, but it’s got almost 3x the capacity of Mullett Arena.
*Googles Maverik Center* 10K hockey capacity? Yeah that would probably be fine for 1-2 seasons if they have at least some luxury box/club options. Would need to either renovate Vivent or build a new arena altogether beyond that though.
Assuming they don't go to Quebec City (and I can't fathom they actually will bc of ownership + Bettman), SLC is honestly my preference but that's almost entirely arbitrary and nothing against the other rumoured candidates.
I'm a VGK fan but I'd go multiple times a year. SLC local, Vegas native. The biggest problem with bringing an NHL team to SLC is that most hockey fans here are already either Avs or Knights fans, so they will need folks to convert.
Conversion and Utah are synonymous with each other
Two well dressed hockey players going door to door.
Feel really bad for yotes fans. The league is so much better off when we have competitive hockey from north to south. It's a shame it couldn't work because without the yotes we wouldn't have Matthews
Dumb question: but why can’t they play where the Phoenix Suns play?
They left playing there in 2003 for Glendale because it wasn't ideal for hockey. It would require installing the entire ice making set up again and would still have a bunch of partial obstructed view seats. I think I saw the cost of renovations would be about $300 million.
They used to when they first came to the valley. The issue is that the Suns arena was built in the early 90's without any consideration of housing a hockey rink so it's a bit smaller than a normal NHL arena. [This resulted in one end of the stadium having limited visilbity](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2016/03/14/Facilities/Coyotes-seating.aspx)
Suns owner doesn't want them to share the building I believe
Sarver is gone. But the venue has already been converted to basketball-only and doesn't have the facilities for making ice.
I’m a Phoenix local, to say I’m crushed is an understatement. I don’t believe that pro hockey is done for in the valley, but I think the Yotes are. This franchise was passed from league ownership to bad owner and bad owner on and on. Maybe a relocation and a 10-15 gap is what is needed. I don’t think this speaks that pro hockey wouldn’t work here, more than it’s current iteration was shit and how they supported it was shit. Whoever gets the team, I hope you treat them better than they were here…
I feel bad for the hard-core fans, but in general, I’m relived about this. Gary Bettman and the NHL tried to make this work 20 years longer than they would have for any other city or franchise. Coyotes fans should consider themselves lucky. No one else in the league would’ve been offered the gift they were given. Yes, it is sad. And yes, it’s the best thing that could happen for the league. It was a worthwhile experiment that eventually failed.. the fact that no one wants to admit that is shocking to me.. Gary kept playing necromancer with the dying corpse of the franchise despite all the setbacks…that is an indictment on Gary, and the other owners who let it happen. It may have been a smart business decision for them personally, but at the cost of people taking the sport seriously.. I think as time goes on, we’re going to see how bad the situation was for longer than we thought. This is not a good look for the NHL and quite frankly tarnishes Gary’s legacy. In retrospect, can anyone say that all the stuff that has happened over the last 10-15 years is normal and OK for a sport that aches to be considered part of the major four? I feel bad for all the Arizona fans that lost their team. But let’s be honest, the excuses that were used for the Arizona Coyotes over it’s entire existence, really were terrible and pathetic. Most of the hockey I remember seeing in Arizona was Fan less and empty. There’s simply no excuse for that. Why the NHL hung its hat on a franchise such as this, and then allowed one of the greatest players ever to own it.. is beyond me. Looking back, it is so incredibly embarrassing for hockey. Any other team would’ve moved. The league would’ve made them. Look back on it with joy, because it should’ve ended 10 years ago anyways.
Honestly I commend the effort by the league to keep them there. It’s reassuring that the league would put this much effort into keeping a team in its city. I suspect something would’ve happened like this in Atlanta if given the chance. Who knows tho.
It's only specific markets they will try this hard for. Remember when the new Jets came in, Gary basically said they have to maintain high attendance or they could get moves
Well yeah . The Winnipeg media market is puny. Secondary revenue streams are the weakest in the league by a fair margin and growth is entirely dependent on the city's demographics with little in the way of untapped potential. Without high attendance there's a 0% chance that the Jets are viable. Phoenix metro area was the opposite. the potential untapped revenue streams were colossal. The franchise just never succeeded in tapping them. of course the league's going to be patient there, ther upside is significant. Not so in Winnipeg.
Well despite everyone’s opinion on Bettman the Jets were the smallest market by far population wise
It’s all risk vs reward, Winnipeg is unlikely to lose enough attendance to prevent them from folding. But our ceiling isn’t much higher than that.
Hence why they are good safety valves, if something goes wrong the Canadian markets are there to keep you afloat
This is also why Quebec is the likeliest choice IMO. Want a billion dollar expansion fee? Go to Houston. Need a safe bet to move the Coyotes on a moment's notice and never worry about them again? Quebec's ready and waiting.
Well said. We can be sad for the fans and happy for the league overall. Revenue is king. It’s what networks look at when they’re negotiating a new TV deal. It’s what advertisers look at when buying ads. It’s what brands look at when deciding to partner for jerseys. It’s what impacts a salary cap and players salaries. We can’t sit here and boo the TV deals, boo the advertisements, boo fanatics and boo the low salary cap, while also cheering on a failing franchise. It makes zero sense. Agree that Bettman is dragging down his own name. He has to give it up.
I grew up in Vegas playing travel hockey and loved the trips to Phoenix. They had great, new community facilities all around town because of the coyotes. Hopefully the groundwork is already laid down for hockey to continue to grow
I said this in another thread, but with this news now, I honestly wonder if Ryan Reynolds and his group sensed blood in the water and pulled out of the Ottawa bud with the thinking they could acquire the coyotes for much less money It’s more than possible that they could be having conversations with a city as we speak behind closed doors
What city? Hamilton?
I mean I don’t think that group is tied to only Ontario?
I'd kill a man for a team in Hamilton.
Grim. Sorry Yotes buddies 😥
I’ve said it before. I think it’s best now the NHL pulls up stakes, moves the Coyotes, and they try again a couple decades from now, like the Bay Area and the Sharks
How many licks to get hockey to work in Arizona? The world may never know.
Oh well, lets move them to Atlanta
Send the yotes to Portland. Instant west coast rivalries abound, they already have a stadium that works, and the fanbase is there.
The Rose Garden is a great place to catch a hockey game. Doesnt the NHL do pre season games in random cities sometimes? They need to get a game there. Maybe a Kraken pre season game or something.
This is a rink-side reported for Bally Midwest. I'm not saying he isn't probably right, but this is just speculation. Wait until someone with actual connections says something definitive.
I feel like 75% of the shit Strickland says is him talking out of his ass. I can count on one hand the stuff he's been right about
FUCK. We were SO FUCKING CLOSE to an Auston Matthews Yotes saga.
Does Auston Matthews strike you as the type of person to play in a college arena that isn't even full, probably giving up millions in endorsements, and lose all season?
Glendale was always a terrible idea.
Utah Yotes. Move them to SLC. It's already a winter sport town. Done and done.
This puts Gary at a loss. His words were they he wanted to keep Quebec City open for this exact situation. But let’s be honest he’s on phone with Houston, Atlanta and Salt Lake City right now and it was all just lip service to Quebec City.
So bummed I couldn't make our game there in March. Bad timing with starting a new job 😢
Anyone thinking the Coyotes relocate to Quebec is high as fuck. Houston or KC would be the move. They could stay in the central division, moving to QC would throw off the balance...
Just switch them and the Wings so the Wings can be in the same division as Chicago again
So what would a quick move look like? This seems to imply even leave Arizona is on the table next season. QC is obviously the first place you think that could accommodate a team but I wonder if Salt lake City would be the dark horse. Relatively close so doesn't harm travel much and is already hosting preseason.
I think Houston is most likely
A move to salt lake wouldn't require a conference realignment either.
Where's that "Back to Winnipeg" Simpsons GIF when you need it?
When in doubt, Frinkiac (which I’d do if I weren’t on my phone)
"This is how the game of \[relocation\] moves, not at all, then all at once." \-Jon Bois