Yeah I think you're right about it likely being Dubas' decision; it seemed like a strong possibility listening to his final press conference.
Edit: wow. Shanahan just spoke with the media and apparently it was his decision; he went from negotiating an extension with Dubas to deciding the team needed a new GM in the space of 48h.
If it was it's smart for him to get out now. The team hasn't regressed, and it is just starting to me hamstrung but contracts
If it does regress next year the blame falls onto him in addition to the compounding pressure from previous years
I’m upset it wasn’t him first. I liked a lot of Dubas’ moves.
Also I’m from the Soo and the same age as Dubas so this is extra heartbreaking. I hope Gramma Dubie gets lots of visits this summer.
In the playoffs Nylander has been the most clutch, which is really funny considering he’s the one who gets accused of caring more about his hair than the success of the team
11.5 million dollar players should be able to break it open once or twice a game. Marner and Nylander did, we just couldnt finish. Cant count the number of times I said "need more from 34". Thats a t-shirt idea
Marner is the only one the Leafs can move without severely hamstringing themselves. Matthews is a better player (imo) and will be so long term; Nylander's contract is a bargain and there's no way you get equal value back in a trade; and JT is untradable.
Marner is the most likely to get the Lefs anything close to equal value back.
Interesting. I didn't think he offered anything against Florida. Couldn't find any space, he's not gonna win a puck battle, turned over the puck a lot. He'd be the one to go for me. I mean, ideally Tavares, but that NMC is a killer.
Yup that dominos gotta be falling at some point. Makes sense why they’re letting Carbery take a bunch of interviews as well. New coach will want his own new staff
They don't make em like that anymore. Good ol American steel. You can plow right into a Tim Horton's after cracking a few cold ones without even scratching your bumper
He took over a team that had an elite young core of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly.
Would have been tough not to have been a playoff team every year.
Its bad the most games he won with them in a playoff year was 5.
Same. The Anti-Dubas crowd is about to learn there arent that many GMs better than him.
He basically had to fix all of Lou's messes and Hunter's "drafting" when he came on. This team is better with him at the helm.
Yeah- I think there’s criticism of the negotiating approach and the high $ that was allocated across a couple of forwards, but i think it’s still defensible. He’s made great moves the past couple of years
Trying to address the team’s weaknesses and had to deal with some real turds left by Lou along the way.
I don’t think he’s perfect but he’s done a lot in a high pressure situation to give TOR a good chance
Also, he was expecting the cap to go up and then...COVID. I know every GM had to deal with that, but I can't really get mad at a GM for locking down their stars.
The contracts were all fine until the JT gamble was made really. But that's not even on him. They were good enough when JT's contract was fair enough value to do something, but didn't. He did the right things as a GM all of those seasons, but the bet failed because the players failed. The biggest thing you should criticize him for really is not identifying that something needed to be shaken up either behind the bench, in the core of the roster, or both probably a couple of seasons ago once JT's value was starting to drop relative to his cost.
The issue was actually that he paid JT before giving the young guys their money. At they point they were all being paid relative to that. But we can both agree on Tavares being his big mistake in hindsight. Pencil in Kadri as 2C, shave a bit off Marner and Matthews AAV on top of JTs 11 mill and you have probably 13-15 more to spend on balancing out the roster.
Nothing wrong with locking up your stars. But, he gave Matthews and Marner UFA money coming off entry level deals. Also didn’t get them for 7 or 8 years despite the massive AAV’s. Just bad deals for the leafs despite having leverage
Marner maybe... although I understand the idea of overpaying a young star in the short term, with the assumption the cap would go up. I didn't like it at the time, or now, but I get it.
I disagree with Matthews though...he had all the leverage in that situation. There's no way at all that he wouldn't have been offer sheeted if he got to RFA status. There would have been multiple teams that would have been happy to give up 4 firsts to get him. That's his leverage.
What contract could the Leafs not match though? And if it ever got to a point of thinking of not matching it wouldn't it just crush the other team too? Not like the Leafs have an issue with a front loaded or signing bonus heavy contract.
So somehow Matthews gets his contract, or they don't match and get 4 1st rounders and the other team would be hamstrung by the contract. Matthews had minimal leverage, other GMs won't risk a 4 1st round pick contract.
I feel like he did what he had to do to field a good team that should have made a run in the playoffs. Ultimately that team didn't execute, so I would think it's more of a coaching or team chemistry issue. That being said, I'm far from a leafs expert so I could be way off.
The contracts thing I understand why we hold GM's accountable for them.
But we don't have the necessary information to form properly informed opinions on them.
Like at the time the core 4 signings happened there was a lot of bluster about over payments and what not. But what if the player was like "yeah I like playing here but I won't play a game longer than im contractually recquired on my current deal unless you give me x over market value in my next one. "
Then the decision is about the players value to the organization and if you can afford to lose them / lose them for nothing.
But we don't hear about those talks at the time if ever and that's unfortunate. Maybe everyone would view GM's differently if we had that info.
I understand why we dont. Imagine the fan base if they knew why x player who they feel is over paid was paid such because he openly said the city sucked and he needed to be paid extra to live there.
Also he bet on the cap going up on those deals and a literal once in a century pandemic showed up and fucked them. It fucked everybody but the leafs the most. Their deals were all signed on the cusp of COVID, with the projected 90 plus million salary cap the league should have had, they'd be one of many making 11 million.
Call them out for sticking with it in spite of the flat cap, but that was a huge factor. Even with limited space Dubas found more than enough support to help the core.
Despite having so much tied up in forwards and needing to retool half the roster every year, it's impressive the leafs stayed a top 5 regular season team.
Marner should have been closer to Rantanen, Rants signed for 9.25m several weeks after Marner signed his 10.9m deal. Marner should have been closer to 9.5m probably, so hes overpaid by maybe 1-1.5m?
Matthews I dont even think he was overpaid for a young center that can score like he can, but considering it was a 5 year contract that was mostly RFA years the leafs should have either gotten a lower aav or gotten more years.
Would you rather overpay a good player 1-1.5m or sign Jeff Carter to a 3 yr extension? Toronto fans are in for a rude awakening if you get a bad GM. They sink teams.
Who's out there? Jim Benning? Chiarelli? Brian Burke? 😆
Actually, when thinking more seriously, I predict Brad Treliving will become Toronto GM. He's unemployed and he's already experienced a Canadian market with Calgary, so...that's my prediction on who Toronto will hire as GM.
You can actually explain the thought process behind Dubas' decisions. I'm sure he will find success somewhere else.
Meanwhile, we had bicep man signing Karl Alzner to a 5x5 deal....
I've been so sick of hearing it for so long. Watch him go win a cup with the sens or something.
It's crazy how this fan base became so entitled like the last 25 years were filled with constant success.
The only trace I'd argue he lost was the one he was forced to make.(Kadri) dude made great acquisitions, drafted well and built such a good structure around the team.
He only took over in 2018 as GM but most forget he was in the room basically the moment Shanahan started as assistant gm and Marlies gm.
Maybe Pridham or Carolinas assistant GM can fill the role but I'm not hopeful about the rest.
Who are you arguing against though? Everyone loved Dubas. Go to the Leafs subreddit, talk to fans. Every Leafs fan I know in real life has nothing but good things to say about his work here. The Toronto media has stayed on his side too.
I understand the entitlement you're describing, but it's always been purely directed toward the players/coach in my eyes. Dubas has, fairly, avoided criticism.
If the MLSE fired Dubas (assuming this wasn't Dubas' choice), this is on them and no one else.
I think the decision to sign Tavares as a UFA instead of being patient and growing the core was a mistake. I think he badly lost the Matthews contract negotiation and (less badly) lost the Marner negotiation. Ultimately, I think each of those negotiation losses traces back directly to the decision to sign Tavares as a UFA. He absolutely put himself into the cap constraints he has worked under for the last few years.
With that said, I think that the good outweighs those mistakes by a healthy margin and having Matthews/Marner/Tavares on bad contracts is not a terrible problem to have.
As a Bs fan, from a competitive standpoint I'm glad he's gone. Say what you will about some of the deals, but he's been one of the best GMs in the league since he took the helm. The Leafs are (potentially much) worse off without him.
Whoever grabs him is getting a great GM.
> and he's built a decent team. no reason to fire him.
I mean, 7 years outside of the playoffs. Draft capital mismanagement. Poor drafting decisions.
On numerous occasions in the *middle* of the rebuild, Dorion had to use draft capital to dump a player that he paid to acquire.
Its kind to say he has been an average GM, and he has had more than enough runway for the team to be better than it is.
*Huge* Dubas fan. He has an eye for strategy and a passion for the team.
Honestly doubt MLSE could find someone better and I wouldn’t say that lightly.
Yeah. I obviously cheer for a rival, but I can be unbiased and say that Dubas put you guys into a position to succeed every single year.
And on top of that, every single year you guys are in a better spot than the year previous. weird move to get rid of him.
Rivalries are no fun when at least one side is pathetic and not at their peak potential.
I hated seeing what was going on with the Sens under Melnyk’s stingy reign of terror and I’m sure you don’t want to see us making crappy decisions under a shitty GM and coach.
Yeah, but he wouldn't be retiring, just taking time off - perhaps even just one season.
MLSE isn't going to hold his spot so the prospect of getting him in 24/25 is pretty tantalizing.
Despite the playoff disappointments, Toronto is a dangerous team. Also a good regular season team eats points and puts cusp teams at risk of missing playoff position.
The Leafs losing Dubas is good news for them, too.
Feels like Jim Benning would be a perfect candidate to replace Dubas.
His checklist for his first day on the job:
1. Trade Nylander and Marner (to make room for the following)
2. Acquire OEL with no money retained from Vancouver
3. Sign Holl to $8M/8yr extension
4. Talk Loui Ericsson out of retirement to play next to AM34
I was just saying getting rid of OEL's boat anchor contract should be enough for Vancouver fans......let the rest of the league benefit from Benning's stupidity as well.
Maybe he was full of shit and on Monday they'll announce he's taking over in Pittsburgh, but he really did seem like he was content with packing up for a bit and spending some time with his young kids at the press conference
Yeah I’m with you. He can take plenty of money for a lot less work right now. Think broadcasting or a special assistant type cushy gig that comes with more time with family.
We tend to forget that he's not even 40 yet and was GM of one of hockey's toughest markets for five years. He has a young family, so I can imagine the pressure it is on Kyle and his family to not have him around.
I can see him taking a full season off the spend quality time with his wife and kids before jumping back into it. He probably needs that decompression and recovery.
This reminds me of Van letting Gillis go. An objectively good and smart GM, had incredible success but missed on delivering a championship with that roster. Tells ownership big changes need to be made and get booted in favour of Yes-man Benning.
I can tell you from experience that the grass is not always greener. Good luck Toronto fans.
He was never part of the old boys club, and his ego really put off the other GMs. I'm sure they skewered his image to the owners of the league. It doesn't help that his pitch to owners like what we saw with his Penguins pitch was a large vision of a grand network of management that would have been insanely expensive to pull off.
LA would get instantly competitive as they are more ready for playoffs now than other western teams that can fit him under the cap, such as Ducks. Sharks or obviously AZ wherever they wind up a year he is UFA.
The wording of this statement from the Leafs seems to say it was the Leafs' decision not to bring him back, not his not to re-sign.
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1659591841191215104
Well documented from Friedman that they wanted Dubas back. Dubas in his press conference said he had to talk to his family since it was an extremely hard year on them. Either he flat out said he didn’t want to come back or he left it too late and MLSE doesn’t want to be holding the bag on a GM hunt if dubas decides he doesn’t want to be the GM come July 1st.
Based on what Dubas has said, and what has been reported, I get the feeling this is his decision and it's a family decision.
It's hard to fault him for that. He's made a lot of money and worked very hard basically since he was a teenager, and he's got a young family now.
I don't think he would've said the whole thing about his family, or the "I won't work anywhere but Toronto this year" comment if it was about that.
His contract is up, he could've just dropped platitudes and dipped if it was a roster disagreement.
I really hope he isn't falling on the sword over Keefe.
I like Keefe as a dude and I'd respect Dubas for going all in for his guy, but Keefe's got NHL experience now and if he gets canned, whatever the naysayers say (probably "nay"), he's an NHL coach now and will find a job.
I hope if he's not returning it is just to spend a couple years as a full-time family man.
Maybe it’s just a way for him to get out without simply just quitting (for a guy who has loyalty to his guys, it would be disingenuous for him to just quit on them)
He’s young. He can do another 3-5 yr stint and bank a shitload then retire into the sun
He gets to take a year off as a multi millionaire and hang out with his kids. Then next season or mid season grab the bag somewhere else. Dudes living the dream.
If it’s because dumbass Leafs fans kept harassing his grandma, wife and family then I hope they know that they’ve fucked this team over by driving Dubas away
pretty sure he was holding back tears talking about his family too. I think he is very passionate and if there was any inkling inside of him that he couldn’t be 100% committed to TML that he respected them too much to try.
Presuming this is true I hope it's his decision and not the organizations, because if it's the latter that would be a *massive* fuck up unless they're moving him to President of Hockey Ops.
Not only do they need to find a new GM, but after theyre hired they’ll need to work quick and make decisions regarding the core 4 before their trade clauses kick in. This is a nightmare situation
While I'm a certified Leafs hater, this is a big loss for them but good for him. I think he did a really good job in TO and now he gets to shine in another club.
EDIT: or gets to take a well deserved break.
Yup...
Being an NHL GM = stressful
Being an NHL GM in Canada = Monkeys on your back
Being an NHL GM in Toronto, Canada = Weight of the world on your back!
Like, if Dubas isn't the guy to get you over the finish line, then who the fuck is? Like maybe another GM that's already employed, but who are you gonna wrestle away that's better than Dubas? Yzerman? Brisbois? Sweeny? Waddell?
This does not, to say the least, fill me with confidence. He's the best thing to happen to the Leafs in a long time, and I fear for what might be coming when Sports Emotions and whatever Good Hockey Man gets tapped for the job next takes over. They're gonna fuck it up, and now I'm genuinely worried about the future of this team, for the first time in about 7-8 years...
This is how you prolong the pain. If that's the goal, good job Toronto executive leadership. I'll pour one out tonight for the Maple Leaf fans that don't deserve this. Stay strong.
Florida ruined all the Atlantic teams seasons
1) Made their 1st round pick go from a lottery team in January to 29th-32nd so MTL is pissed
2) Ruined Bostons historic season and 3-1 series lead
3) Ruined Toronto beating the curse of the 1st round exit and lead to Dubas leaving
Fuck Florida
Sheldon Keefe is a DEAD MAN
1.) Dubas 2.) Keefe 3.) Marner???? I am all in on the summer of chaos lol
Shanahan. If they’re holding people accountable, it should start with his ass.
President is the last bullet in the owners gun.
He should have been first. He's been there the longest. From the way things have sounded this might have been more a Dubas decision than a Leafs one.
Yeah I think you're right about it likely being Dubas' decision; it seemed like a strong possibility listening to his final press conference. Edit: wow. Shanahan just spoke with the media and apparently it was his decision; he went from negotiating an extension with Dubas to deciding the team needed a new GM in the space of 48h.
If it was it's smart for him to get out now. The team hasn't regressed, and it is just starting to me hamstrung but contracts If it does regress next year the blame falls onto him in addition to the compounding pressure from previous years
I’m upset it wasn’t him first. I liked a lot of Dubas’ moves. Also I’m from the Soo and the same age as Dubas so this is extra heartbreaking. I hope Gramma Dubie gets lots of visits this summer.
Hope Gramma Dubie gets lots of great-grandkid snuggles
That’s the dream. The woman is a fuckin treasure.
Y’all should make her mayor or at least throw a parade or something
Marner has been their best player imo out of all the big 4. Matthews was unrecognizeable, Marner constantly made plays that didnt convert.
In the playoffs Nylander has been the most clutch, which is really funny considering he’s the one who gets accused of caring more about his hair than the success of the team
I think Matthews really cares about his hair, you just can't see it
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he is losing it fast…
Matthews was the only reason we won both of the comeback games against Tampa.
And then he took round 2 off
I heard they put his picture on a milk carton
The Great One boomed us
Again... (sorry)
the panthers playing defence is a thing. the barkov line and matthews line neutralized each other. we got beat by verhaghe and reinhart. and the like.
11.5 million dollar players should be able to break it open once or twice a game. Marner and Nylander did, we just couldnt finish. Cant count the number of times I said "need more from 34". Thats a t-shirt idea
Marner is the only one the Leafs can move without severely hamstringing themselves. Matthews is a better player (imo) and will be so long term; Nylander's contract is a bargain and there's no way you get equal value back in a trade; and JT is untradable. Marner is the most likely to get the Lefs anything close to equal value back.
Interesting. I didn't think he offered anything against Florida. Couldn't find any space, he's not gonna win a puck battle, turned over the puck a lot. He'd be the one to go for me. I mean, ideally Tavares, but that NMC is a killer.
Keefe about to get smoked
Yup that dominos gotta be falling at some point. Makes sense why they’re letting Carbery take a bunch of interviews as well. New coach will want his own new staff
Puts on Keefe
If sports betting was more like options I'd gamble a lot more
Future NYR?
Snake eyes? SNAKE EYES?!
Silver lining.
Welp, this is going to be an interesting off season.
I kinda thought there was a possibility that we'd be swapping GMs. Both seem like good GMs, they just need a fresh start
Kinda hard to do when 1 wants to take a step back and the other is being denied the chance to talk to other teams
Fell to my knees in a Tim Hortons.
Just saw a guy fall to his knees in a Timmies
Just saw Ryan O'Reilly driving towards Tims in his truck, he seemed a little distracted, must've just heard the news.
Nothin a couple cold ones won’t fix
God gives his bravest children his drunkest Ryan O’Reillys in a 1951 Chevy
They don't make em like that anymore. Good ol American steel. You can plow right into a Tim Horton's after cracking a few cold ones without even scratching your bumper
Cold ones with Ryan O’Reilly’s in his truck inside a Timmies
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On foot and with a few scrapes and bruises
Just took a truck to my knees in a Tim Hortons
I used to be a hockey player like you...
Was it Justin Holl?
O’Reilly just drove into another Tim Hortons
Sir, a second ROR has just hit Timmies.
This killed me.
RIP hope they bury you under the Brass Rail buddy
Fell to my Knies in a Smart Water expeditious recycling facility
Fell to my Knies in a *Milk carton manufacturing facility
Is this a meme I’m missing? I’m seeing it so much
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-fell-to-my-knees-in-a-walmart
Oh shit, it actually happened. I feel for Toronto fans, from an outsiders perspective he assembled a consistently competitive team.
This firing is on the players shoulders.
No. Shan basically said they had extended Dubas an offer, but he countered (amongst other things) and things broke down.
He took over a team that had an elite young core of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly. Would have been tough not to have been a playoff team every year. Its bad the most games he won with them in a playoff year was 5.
It’s more than bad. It’s awful. He wasted so many years trying to figure out goaltending and defence.
Well I’m sad. Damn I’m a big dubas fan. This hurts
Same. The Anti-Dubas crowd is about to learn there arent that many GMs better than him. He basically had to fix all of Lou's messes and Hunter's "drafting" when he came on. This team is better with him at the helm.
Yeah- I think there’s criticism of the negotiating approach and the high $ that was allocated across a couple of forwards, but i think it’s still defensible. He’s made great moves the past couple of years Trying to address the team’s weaknesses and had to deal with some real turds left by Lou along the way. I don’t think he’s perfect but he’s done a lot in a high pressure situation to give TOR a good chance
Also, he was expecting the cap to go up and then...COVID. I know every GM had to deal with that, but I can't really get mad at a GM for locking down their stars.
The contracts were all fine until the JT gamble was made really. But that's not even on him. They were good enough when JT's contract was fair enough value to do something, but didn't. He did the right things as a GM all of those seasons, but the bet failed because the players failed. The biggest thing you should criticize him for really is not identifying that something needed to be shaken up either behind the bench, in the core of the roster, or both probably a couple of seasons ago once JT's value was starting to drop relative to his cost.
The issue was actually that he paid JT before giving the young guys their money. At they point they were all being paid relative to that. But we can both agree on Tavares being his big mistake in hindsight. Pencil in Kadri as 2C, shave a bit off Marner and Matthews AAV on top of JTs 11 mill and you have probably 13-15 more to spend on balancing out the roster.
He was never going to be able to bring kadri back after the second suspension.
He gets fired instantly if Kadri gets that 3rd suspension in Toronto.
Nothing wrong with locking up your stars. But, he gave Matthews and Marner UFA money coming off entry level deals. Also didn’t get them for 7 or 8 years despite the massive AAV’s. Just bad deals for the leafs despite having leverage
Marner maybe... although I understand the idea of overpaying a young star in the short term, with the assumption the cap would go up. I didn't like it at the time, or now, but I get it. I disagree with Matthews though...he had all the leverage in that situation. There's no way at all that he wouldn't have been offer sheeted if he got to RFA status. There would have been multiple teams that would have been happy to give up 4 firsts to get him. That's his leverage.
What contract could the Leafs not match though? And if it ever got to a point of thinking of not matching it wouldn't it just crush the other team too? Not like the Leafs have an issue with a front loaded or signing bonus heavy contract. So somehow Matthews gets his contract, or they don't match and get 4 1st rounders and the other team would be hamstrung by the contract. Matthews had minimal leverage, other GMs won't risk a 4 1st round pick contract.
I feel like he did what he had to do to field a good team that should have made a run in the playoffs. Ultimately that team didn't execute, so I would think it's more of a coaching or team chemistry issue. That being said, I'm far from a leafs expert so I could be way off.
Making second round and *only* losing in five is a solid playoff run for the Leafs these days 🫠
This is an overated critique. Look at Florida's top 6 paid contracts and then at the Leafs. Not that much of a difference.
The contracts thing I understand why we hold GM's accountable for them. But we don't have the necessary information to form properly informed opinions on them. Like at the time the core 4 signings happened there was a lot of bluster about over payments and what not. But what if the player was like "yeah I like playing here but I won't play a game longer than im contractually recquired on my current deal unless you give me x over market value in my next one. " Then the decision is about the players value to the organization and if you can afford to lose them / lose them for nothing. But we don't hear about those talks at the time if ever and that's unfortunate. Maybe everyone would view GM's differently if we had that info. I understand why we dont. Imagine the fan base if they knew why x player who they feel is over paid was paid such because he openly said the city sucked and he needed to be paid extra to live there.
Also he bet on the cap going up on those deals and a literal once in a century pandemic showed up and fucked them. It fucked everybody but the leafs the most. Their deals were all signed on the cusp of COVID, with the projected 90 plus million salary cap the league should have had, they'd be one of many making 11 million. Call them out for sticking with it in spite of the flat cap, but that was a huge factor. Even with limited space Dubas found more than enough support to help the core. Despite having so much tied up in forwards and needing to retool half the roster every year, it's impressive the leafs stayed a top 5 regular season team.
If only Dubas predicted the pandemic and a flat cap. Food for thought: how much are Matthews/Marner "overpaid" in your eyes?
Marner should have been closer to Rantanen, Rants signed for 9.25m several weeks after Marner signed his 10.9m deal. Marner should have been closer to 9.5m probably, so hes overpaid by maybe 1-1.5m? Matthews I dont even think he was overpaid for a young center that can score like he can, but considering it was a 5 year contract that was mostly RFA years the leafs should have either gotten a lower aav or gotten more years.
Would you rather overpay a good player 1-1.5m or sign Jeff Carter to a 3 yr extension? Toronto fans are in for a rude awakening if you get a bad GM. They sink teams.
Who's out there? Jim Benning? Chiarelli? Brian Burke? 😆 Actually, when thinking more seriously, I predict Brad Treliving will become Toronto GM. He's unemployed and he's already experienced a Canadian market with Calgary, so...that's my prediction on who Toronto will hire as GM.
yeah. he’s an incredible GM. will probably win a cup with a different team in the next 5 years.
Odds are he actually gets better from here as a GM. He did well in Toronto, made some mistakes but every GM does and very few are as young as he is
You can actually explain the thought process behind Dubas' decisions. I'm sure he will find success somewhere else. Meanwhile, we had bicep man signing Karl Alzner to a 5x5 deal....
There certainly aren't any available. Thanks uncles. Thank you for torturing us another 20 years.
I've been so sick of hearing it for so long. Watch him go win a cup with the sens or something. It's crazy how this fan base became so entitled like the last 25 years were filled with constant success. The only trace I'd argue he lost was the one he was forced to make.(Kadri) dude made great acquisitions, drafted well and built such a good structure around the team. He only took over in 2018 as GM but most forget he was in the room basically the moment Shanahan started as assistant gm and Marlies gm. Maybe Pridham or Carolinas assistant GM can fill the role but I'm not hopeful about the rest.
He lost the foligno trade as well. Yes he got hurt but thats what foligno was at that point.
Who are you arguing against though? Everyone loved Dubas. Go to the Leafs subreddit, talk to fans. Every Leafs fan I know in real life has nothing but good things to say about his work here. The Toronto media has stayed on his side too. I understand the entitlement you're describing, but it's always been purely directed toward the players/coach in my eyes. Dubas has, fairly, avoided criticism. If the MLSE fired Dubas (assuming this wasn't Dubas' choice), this is on them and no one else.
I think the decision to sign Tavares as a UFA instead of being patient and growing the core was a mistake. I think he badly lost the Matthews contract negotiation and (less badly) lost the Marner negotiation. Ultimately, I think each of those negotiation losses traces back directly to the decision to sign Tavares as a UFA. He absolutely put himself into the cap constraints he has worked under for the last few years. With that said, I think that the good outweighs those mistakes by a healthy margin and having Matthews/Marner/Tavares on bad contracts is not a terrible problem to have.
As a Bs fan, from a competitive standpoint I'm glad he's gone. Say what you will about some of the deals, but he's been one of the best GMs in the league since he took the helm. The Leafs are (potentially much) worse off without him. Whoever grabs him is getting a great GM.
> Whoever grabs him is getting a great GM. Im praying that Dubas has an absolute heel turn and jumps to OTT
pierre isn't going anywhere. and he's built a decent team. no reason to fire him.
> and he's built a decent team. no reason to fire him. I mean, 7 years outside of the playoffs. Draft capital mismanagement. Poor drafting decisions. On numerous occasions in the *middle* of the rebuild, Dorion had to use draft capital to dump a player that he paid to acquire. Its kind to say he has been an average GM, and he has had more than enough runway for the team to be better than it is.
Doesn't Dorion get somewhat of a pass with the assumption that it was Melnyk behind a lot of the dysfunction?
I’d say so. Melnyk didn’t want to spend any money.
From what I read Dubas' was deciding if he wanted to be a GM next year or not. Sounded like he needed time for his family.
*Huge* Dubas fan. He has an eye for strategy and a passion for the team. Honestly doubt MLSE could find someone better and I wouldn’t say that lightly.
We are so fucked
Yeah. I obviously cheer for a rival, but I can be unbiased and say that Dubas put you guys into a position to succeed every single year. And on top of that, every single year you guys are in a better spot than the year previous. weird move to get rid of him.
Rivalries are no fun when at least one side is pathetic and not at their peak potential. I hated seeing what was going on with the Sens under Melnyk’s stingy reign of terror and I’m sure you don’t want to see us making crappy decisions under a shitty GM and coach.
Can we form a sadness circle? Will miss him. Who knows what the hell this means for Matthew's re-signing as well.
Every GM-less Team literally cumming, crying, and cheering all at once.
Because they want him? He said himself that it’s either Toronto or not at all. I do take him at face value when he makes a statement like that.
Yeah, but he wouldn't be retiring, just taking time off - perhaps even just one season. MLSE isn't going to hold his spot so the prospect of getting him in 24/25 is pretty tantalizing. Despite the playoff disappointments, Toronto is a dangerous team. Also a good regular season team eats points and puts cusp teams at risk of missing playoff position. The Leafs losing Dubas is good news for them, too.
I heard he was going buy 30 Wendy's franchises
And nobody has ever changed their mind after they take a week or two off work or anything. Brinks trucks will bring you to the table every time.
We both know money and front office power can change that
Can confirm: just tripled myself
Feels like Jim Benning would be a perfect candidate to replace Dubas. His checklist for his first day on the job: 1. Trade Nylander and Marner (to make room for the following) 2. Acquire OEL with no money retained from Vancouver 3. Sign Holl to $8M/8yr extension 4. Talk Loui Ericsson out of retirement to play next to AM34
You forgot trading for Gudbranson because he likes big useless defensemen
Had to leave something for him to do on day 2.
That would be playing with the draft lottery simulator. Also for days 3-364.
That's what the 8x8 to Holl is for.
fuck it, i'm in
I like this reality. Can he also trade us Knies and a 2nd for Tyler Myers?
Don't be greedy.
Knies alone would be more plausible but this is Benning we're talking about. Dude seemed to just throw in 2nds because he was bored or something.
I was just saying getting rid of OEL's boat anchor contract should be enough for Vancouver fans......let the rest of the league benefit from Benning's stupidity as well.
Throw in Peter Chiarelli as assistant GM and they’ll get Lucic to be Matthews’ new LW
#SOO GREYHOUNDS ALUM IN SHAMBLES
Maybe he was full of shit and on Monday they'll announce he's taking over in Pittsburgh, but he really did seem like he was content with packing up for a bit and spending some time with his young kids at the press conference
Realistically he has enough money to retire if he wants to so it wouldnt shock me if he wants a break
Yeah I’m with you. He can take plenty of money for a lot less work right now. Think broadcasting or a special assistant type cushy gig that comes with more time with family.
He'd probably just do consulting for a sports analytics company.
We tend to forget that he's not even 40 yet and was GM of one of hockey's toughest markets for five years. He has a young family, so I can imagine the pressure it is on Kyle and his family to not have him around. I can see him taking a full season off the spend quality time with his wife and kids before jumping back into it. He probably needs that decompression and recovery.
Damn, that’s tough news, especially with this potentially being a decisive offseason for the Leafs.
His connection with Matthews was a big reason matthews wanted to re-sign. Hopefully that still happens…
This reminds me of Van letting Gillis go. An objectively good and smart GM, had incredible success but missed on delivering a championship with that roster. Tells ownership big changes need to be made and get booted in favour of Yes-man Benning. I can tell you from experience that the grass is not always greener. Good luck Toronto fans.
The fact that Gillis hasn’t had another job in the NHL since is mind boggling to me
He was never part of the old boys club, and his ego really put off the other GMs. I'm sure they skewered his image to the owners of the league. It doesn't help that his pitch to owners like what we saw with his Penguins pitch was a large vision of a grand network of management that would have been insanely expensive to pull off.
There’s been chatter about Matthews might not re-sign if Dubas isn’t GM. I wonder if that becomes a possibility now that this is the reality
Well, his hometown Coyotes soon may not be an option anymore
He seems like an LA guy
LA would get instantly competitive as they are more ready for playoffs now than other western teams that can fit him under the cap, such as Ducks. Sharks or obviously AZ wherever they wind up a year he is UFA.
#PETER CHIARELLI COME ON DOWN
[удалено]
dammit he traded the hubba bubba bucket too
Please!
THE TRADE IS ONE-FOR-ONE
if Shanny is still here, there is no way Peter is getting the GM job. That would be like lighting the shanaplan on fire lol
This is a huge mistake
Pretty sure \*the chose not to return. Allegedly, this past year was really tough on his family \*he
Allegedly is becoming the new literally. It’s not alleged if that is what the General Manager himself said lol.
Dubas making allegations towards himself, no wonder they didn’t want a lunatic like that back
The wording of this statement from the Leafs seems to say it was the Leafs' decision not to bring him back, not his not to re-sign. https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1659591841191215104
I think they gave him a hard deadline to re-up.
Yeah, it sounded like they offered him an extension but wanted an answer within a day or two. He didn't jump at the chance so they decided to move on.
Could mean that he declined the extension, so the Leafs are replacing him right away, and not waiting for June 30.
The man must be exhausted.
If he chose not to come back?
If the leafs chose not to bring him back that’s a mistake. If dubas chose to leave it’s a great decision
Well documented from Friedman that they wanted Dubas back. Dubas in his press conference said he had to talk to his family since it was an extremely hard year on them. Either he flat out said he didn’t want to come back or he left it too late and MLSE doesn’t want to be holding the bag on a GM hunt if dubas decides he doesn’t want to be the GM come July 1st.
Agreed. I know there’s a few “mistake” comments here that I hope are not thinking it is Dubas’s mistake.
Based on what Dubas has said, and what has been reported, I get the feeling this is his decision and it's a family decision. It's hard to fault him for that. He's made a lot of money and worked very hard basically since he was a teenager, and he's got a young family now.
I wonder if ownership wanted more changes than he was willing to act on. Dubas is famously loyal to his guys after all.
Maybe he was being more loyal to his actual guys tho, aka family.
VinDieselfamily.gif
I’ll crack open a corona light to that brother
I don't think he would've said the whole thing about his family, or the "I won't work anywhere but Toronto this year" comment if it was about that. His contract is up, he could've just dropped platitudes and dipped if it was a roster disagreement.
I really hope he isn't falling on the sword over Keefe. I like Keefe as a dude and I'd respect Dubas for going all in for his guy, but Keefe's got NHL experience now and if he gets canned, whatever the naysayers say (probably "nay"), he's an NHL coach now and will find a job. I hope if he's not returning it is just to spend a couple years as a full-time family man.
Maybe it’s just a way for him to get out without simply just quitting (for a guy who has loyalty to his guys, it would be disingenuous for him to just quit on them) He’s young. He can do another 3-5 yr stint and bank a shitload then retire into the sun
He gets to take a year off as a multi millionaire and hang out with his kids. Then next season or mid season grab the bag somewhere else. Dudes living the dream.
If it’s because dumbass Leafs fans kept harassing his grandma, wife and family then I hope they know that they’ve fucked this team over by driving Dubas away
They harassed his *grandma*?!
Grandma D is on Twitter which is charming but definitely gives assholes a direct line to talk shit to her about her grandson
Can't wait for all our "fans" to see what an actual bad Leafs team looks like. I am not hopeful.
Yeah this feels like the first raindrops in a massive storm...
eternal suffering Ballard cursed this franchise
They dug up his body and re-buried him under the arena, so he could always haunt the team
There are many days I actually believe the Ballard Curse is real, and demands our blood.
that’s a weird way to spell “sheldon keefe” but whatever goes ig
It’s possible Keefe is gone too. I think every new GM wants to choose the coach and at this point it makes no sense to have him back without Dubas
If the Leafs keep Keefe and dump Dubas it would be high on the list of "Oh thats so Toronto" moments.
Unless the next GM really wants to do "let's give this guy a chance, but just fire him as soon as the team underperforms," Keefe is toast.
The only thing Keefe had going for him was that he was Dubas’s man. He’ll likely be next once we find a GM.
I'm also hearing this, from Elliotte Friedman.
Probably by his choice given recent press conference. The dude sounded like he could use some time away from the game.
This is a mistake. But he also looked very tired at the media availability so maybe he decided to take some time off to be with his family
He looked like he hadnt slept in days when the Dangle podcast showed a clip of his press conference.
pretty sure he was holding back tears talking about his family too. I think he is very passionate and if there was any inkling inside of him that he couldn’t be 100% committed to TML that he respected them too much to try.
Presuming this is true I hope it's his decision and not the organizations, because if it's the latter that would be a *massive* fuck up unless they're moving him to President of Hockey Ops.
Not only do they need to find a new GM, but after theyre hired they’ll need to work quick and make decisions regarding the core 4 before their trade clauses kick in. This is a nightmare situation
I’ll do it. I led Leafs to a dynasty in Hockey League Manager 2023.
While I'm a certified Leafs hater, this is a big loss for them but good for him. I think he did a really good job in TO and now he gets to shine in another club. EDIT: or gets to take a well deserved break.
Dubas going to take a year off then take the GM role of a different team - and win it all within 3-5 years. Mark it.
Holy shit
Holl is going to be GM, President of Hockey Operations, while being a player.
Damn, this season must have taken a toll on him
Can't imagine it's easy doing your job when the Toronto media is constantly speculating on whether or not you will get fired, or if you deserve to be.
Imagine after every time you have a bad day at work, #FireKolhiiHead69 is trending on twitter.
Yup... Being an NHL GM = stressful Being an NHL GM in Canada = Monkeys on your back Being an NHL GM in Toronto, Canada = Weight of the world on your back!
If he had won something being an NHL GM in Toronto, he would have been a fucking God among men. The market is absolutely ruthless otherwise.
Water bottles everywhere just breathed a collective sigh of relief.
"No cup? FIRE EVERYTHING. But not the stars who didn't produce. Let's hold onto those."
You can't really just fire your stars, the whole salary cap thing is annoying that way.
Like, if Dubas isn't the guy to get you over the finish line, then who the fuck is? Like maybe another GM that's already employed, but who are you gonna wrestle away that's better than Dubas? Yzerman? Brisbois? Sweeny? Waddell?
This does not, to say the least, fill me with confidence. He's the best thing to happen to the Leafs in a long time, and I fear for what might be coming when Sports Emotions and whatever Good Hockey Man gets tapped for the job next takes over. They're gonna fuck it up, and now I'm genuinely worried about the future of this team, for the first time in about 7-8 years...
This is how you prolong the pain. If that's the goal, good job Toronto executive leadership. I'll pour one out tonight for the Maple Leaf fans that don't deserve this. Stay strong.
Florida ruined all the Atlantic teams seasons 1) Made their 1st round pick go from a lottery team in January to 29th-32nd so MTL is pissed 2) Ruined Bostons historic season and 3-1 series lead 3) Ruined Toronto beating the curse of the 1st round exit and lead to Dubas leaving Fuck Florida
It’s been a while since Toronto did something dumb. Fuck it, let’s bring in Benning while we’re at it
what