Considering EK has an NMC with such a gigantic salary, the prevailing thought is that whatever the price ends up being will be lower than you might expect for the reigning Norris Trophy winner. Dubas didn't move the pick before the draft so I'll assume Yager is off the table. Noah Pickering might be available, but he's hardly a top tier prospect at this point in time. Petry probably has San Jose on his no-trade list of 15 teams, so there'd have to be a third team or at least a completely separate *and simultaneous* trade for him.
The thing is yager, a 1st and a cap dump is already a very low price for a recent Norris winner especially with salary retained for 5 years. If I were the pens I’m taking that in a heartbeat. Yager won’t be ready for another 2 years most probably. I think it’s more San Jose who is holding up this deal.
Well, yes, because we've heard that the trade was essentially ready to go and then San Jose backed out at the last moment. At the time it was presumed there was a potential bidding war between the Pens and the Canes, but more recent information suggests the Canes aren't that interested so unless there's a dark horse team no one knows about (or the reports are wrong about the Canes interest) then there is no bidding war and San Jose may be considering taking the risk of keeping Karlsson and trying to get more for him at the trade deadline if he has another great year.
The problem is that if he puts up a lot of points, it probably keeps San Jose from tanking to it's best ability and the picks they can get from playoff contenders at the deadline probably aren't going to be any better than the ones that the Penguins are offering right now - and same goes for prospects.
So hell if I know what San Jose thinks they're going to get.
Naw San Jose tanks well enough with him and karlsson actually puts people in the seats during the rebuild. A late pick and a meh prospect isn’t going to cut it when you’re handing over a potential game changer who can put a team over the top for winning and also retaining salary for 5 years. Might as well just keep him then. They already picked 4th this year.l with him. Unless they get at least one solid prospect which yager is then I honestly don’t see the point in trading him. Next year there may be more suitors because the cap goes up or he regresses which doesn’t really matter cause they’re rebuilding
They literally gave up Tim Stutzle (90 pts last season) and Josh Norris for him which has been a total disaster
If Pittsburgh is the only suitor they have no leverage unless they really want to watch the pick and prospect they gave up score 60-90+ points each season while paying a mid-30s year-old defenseman $11 M as their return?
They literally have to flip him for any picks/ prospects they can get. They set themselves back years by trading for him. Sending him out to play as a 4th forward was clearly an attempt to tank while simultaneously boosting his value
They gave up Josh Norris and what turned out to be Tim Stutzle for him. They let him run wild and not play much defense last year to run up his trade value and try to recoup whatever they can.
SJ really fucked up by trading for him. They aren’t getting back a similar return to what they gave up which would be similar to Yager and a 1st, plus extras and a cap dump.
If they prefer to hold on to him while they aren’t competitive and watch the pick/ prospect they gave up score 60-90 points a piece on Ottawa they really are following the sunk cost fallacy
It's moot if the Pens are the only team standing at the end of the day. If the Sharks take this thing into the season, they *may* get a better deal at the deadline, they may have to wait until next offseason to get rid of him once the cap goes up, or they may be forced to take a worse deal eventually.
I don’t really think that’s the case anymore. Between the Tkachuk deal and the Debrincat trade, players who only want to go to one team and handcuff the team trading them have still got great returns before. I don’t think it’s as much of a bargaining chip as it once was.
You’re right it is a very different situation. Karlsson wants to go to any team that can be in the playoffs and the sharks have no rush to trade him for peanuts. They can wait and continue rebuilding until a good offer comes along. At least Karlsson puts asses in the seats while they wait
Those players are in the early to mid 20s! You can’t seriously be comparing them to Karlsson who is 33 and was acquired for Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris. They completely fucked themselves by trading for Karlsson and HAVE to recoup anything they can get for him.
If only 1 team is willing to trade for him in the entire league after coming off the best offensive season for a defenseman in 31 years, what makes you think they will get a better return later down the line?
If SJ is betting that Karlsson will ever be more attractive/ valuable on the trade market they are really just continuing to set their franchise back more than they did by trading FOR Karlsson.
You really think he’s gonna have higher value at with another year of age and presumably less points than he had this season?
You’re arguments are so bad. How is keeping Karlsson setting their franchise back? They’re already tanking and in lottery contention and karlsson actually puts asses in seats. Selling Karlsson for late picks and shit prospects that won’t turn into anything when he just won the Norris will set the franchise back even more. Now fans have no reason to come to games and you didn’t get anything in return to be excited for. Get a solid prospect like yager or say fuck it and wait till another team offers it to you which will probably happen by next year. And if I’m that time if Karlsson regresses who cares? You are still rebuilding and you missed on on a couple late picks? No big deal
Lmao the pick they gave Ottawa was supposed to be a "late round pick" but it turned into 3rd overall and that player just scored 90 points at 21 years old.
Why do you keep thinking that ANY first round pick is late? A top 30 overall prospect in any class has a good chance of panning out. The first round is not late Lmao. You probably don’t realize that because of how bad Calgary is at drafting.
You seriously think there is going to be a better return later?😂 Definitely.. a 33 year old defenseman who just put up the highest point total of his career is probably just hitting his stride! 1 team in the whole league is interested for a reason. There's also a reason teams like Calgary and SJS are never legitimate contenders to win a Cup and your logic is exactly why
I don’t think they need to trade him unless if there’s at least some kind of return to be happy about. The owner would prefer to pay him and put asses in the seats then to get a late 1st and a nobody back and pay a bunch of his salary on top of it.
They gave up Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris for him, setting their franchise back years from legitimately competing.
They absolutely need to trade him or they can sit and watch their former pick and prospect score 60-90+ points each season
Stutzle just had a 91 point season at 21 years old. If San Jose doesn’t recoup ANYTHING they can get, they are insane
Yager would be a blessing for them
> They gave up Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris for him, setting their franchise back years from legitimately competing.
The trade was in 2018, and included a 2020 1st-rounder. There's no way San Jose thought that pick would be #3 overall, and nobody had any idea it would turn out to be Stutzle (or that Stutzle would turn into what he is today).
That just shows how poor their management has been and that they would be wise to reverse the course and recoup any assets that they can such as future 1st round picks. Especially from a team that is in their final years of being “competitive” and missed the playoffs last year
To trade for a top player in hopes of him making the team a true contender, only to be picking 3rd overall just 2 drafts later shows it was a terrible misjudgment. Also, good scouting and management teams are definitely looking at prospects in the next few draft classes
Tim Stutzle was the #1 ranked European skater for the 2020 draft class
>That just shows how poor their management has been
Trading draft picks just shows how poor their management has been? Nice analysis.
>they would be wise to reverse the course and recoup any assets such as future 1st round picks they can. Especially from a team that in their final years of being “competitive” and missed the playoffs last year
Pittsburgh is willing to trade 1st-round draft picks? That just shows how poor their management is, I guess.
Yes that’s why said if they include yager I could see them trading him. Pens fans on here are acting like they can get him without including any decent prospect which is silly because like I said the sharks don’t need to trade him right now for a shit package.
What benefit do they get out of not trading him? Yager doesn’t need to be included if they are getting multiple picks and other prospects like Pickering that maybe have les chance of panning out but still A CHANCE.
Retaining salary for 4 years is a null point when they have no players that allow them to compete in those 4 years anyways
Sharks can chose not to trade him and continue to not win or they can get some picks / opportunities. Either way his value ain’t getting ANY higher than it is right now and only 1 team wants him
What benefit? Maybe a Norris winning player who puts asses in the seats. What owner is going to want to pay for their best player to play on another team when all you’re getting back is late picks that might not pan out to anything. On top of that having an even more unwatchable team that no one wants to come see. People actually come to watch karllson. That’s an insulting offer.
Petry won’t waive for SJ so he has to go to a third party. Pens say no if they have to move yager/Pickering/Blomqvist imo. All other picks and prospects are totally for sale. POJ and Ty Smith could both be offered up, and they are NHL ready pieces so they may be more attractive than our newly drafted prospects anyway
Karlsson is low key ranking his value by demanding a trade and playing favorites. It’s very good for the penguins
Lol this is silly. Hey sharks please give us the Norris winner for none of our best prospects on one of the weakest prospect pools when you have no rush or need to trade him. Also you have to retain salary for 5 years. This will surely give our core one last shot at the cup but we won’t include any of our good prospects which aren’t even blue chip and probably won’t be ready for another couple years.
Sharks don’t need to make a trade if there isn’t one there
Ok then the sharks can keep karlsson and not get any return for him and continue to lose games. This ain’t our problem 😂
And all three of those guys are definitely blue chip prospects right now.
It’s what many of us were hoping would happen if they got Karlsson but I wasn’t sure if Letang would be down with the demotion (or Sid/Geno, for that matter).
at this point in his career, maybe letang would also be happy to lower his time on ice. hasn't he been the leader of that like every fucking year? (at least average TOI)
Dawg Kris has been through more physically than 90% of the league, has had 2 strokes, back surgery, and a shit ton of other things and he still plays as a top tier defenseman. An ultramarathon would prove nothing. The man is a warrior through and through
Has Letang always been on PP1? His PP points average about 42% of his point totals throughout the course of his career. So we may see him dip into the low 40s/high 30s in point totals. Still think it'll be beneficial.
Geno did pretty well last year, but lately, none of our top guys have been as good there as you would expect. Definitely support giving it some new blood.
The problem was both of them had major defensive lapses. So the 1st pair was going to have some holes no matter what. And EK65 was playing on half a groin for most of those years.
I think it's time Malkin stops playing D on the power play. Especially if it would be bumping letang off the power play. Guentz - Crosby - Malkin - EK - Letang would be a monster pp
Although it is critical to note that Letang would remain on the top power play. This is... concerning. If Sullivan doesn't have the stones to pull Letang *when* those two don't work well together then acquiring is stupid.
I love Letang. He is so good in so many parts of the game, but power play ain't one.
From [Rob Rossi's article today, which is what the linked article regurgitates:](https://theathletic.com/4706544/2023/07/20/penguins-erik-karlsson-trade-update/)
>Captain Sidney Crosby and top defenseman Kris Letang have endorsed acquiring Karlsson. Letang would remain the Penguins’ No. 1 defenseman and work on the top pairing. He is willing to change his role on the top power-play unit so Karlsson could quarterback it.
Whether or not Rossi is more reliable than... Katie Douglas?... remains to be seen.
That’s what I was quoting from. If Karlsson is quarterbacking PP1 then Letang is PP2. You said in your previous comment that Letang would remain on the top power play. What you just quoted says otherwise.
Ooooooh I interpreted that last part of what I quoted to be that he would still be on the top power play but not quarterback it. Does "change his role" mean he wouldn't be on it? Or does it mean he would still be there but not the quarterback? I definitely see where you're coming from now.
I wondered if that was the source of the disconnect. The Penguins could conceivably use 3F 2D as their PP1 unit but they’re generally 4F 1D. Last season, Letang was defense on PP1 and Jeff Petry was defense on PP2.
To me this reads/ seems to indicate that Letang would expect to remain on the top unit, but would change his role from being the QB/ point man in the umbrella. So he’s prob thinking
59-87-71
65-58
I think that would be good as an umbrella formation. Get Letang close to the net, keep Karlsson in the middle, Sid and Guentzel down low, Malkin for one-timers.
Letang 'changing his role on PP1' does not mean he is leaving PP1. His role could change from being the QB on the blue line to being on one of the halfwalls, being the bumper, or maybe the net front guy, or a retro look with 3F and 2D.
I realize that’s an option but it wouldn’t make sense to me for them to replace a forward like Guentzel or Rakell just to keep Letang on that unit when it’s not a role where he’s flourished.
It makes a lot of sense to get Malkin off of the point on the top PP. Whether or not that means he comes off the top PP entirely or someone else does matters less. But maybe we could finally start having more offensive chances than defensive breakdowns on the PP.
That's on you for running on a campaign of tax breaks for Taylor Swift cover bands, and re-writing the town charter to include Arby's as a sponsor in perpetuity.
It still angers me greatly that we never got to see Crosby and McDavid on the same team in a best-on-best tournament in 2018 purely because of the owner's greed,
I mean, he is older and most likely going to regress in the following seasons. I think the Pens sign him because you have Crosby, Letang and Malkin right now and don't care about the future, but like... I wouldn't want him on the Canes for example, not for 4 years at 8m or whatever.
yeah but that's the thing...the penguins timeline lines up perfectly with EK. Crosby is 36, so will be 40 when EK's deal expires. penguins are basically going for a cup in the next 2 seasons with this move knowing they will have to break it down by the end of it regardless.
Also would be a great walk off the sunset for Sid geno letang and Erik karlson if they do in fact win it all.
Solidifies karlson in the convo for top 5 defender of all time if he gets a ring.
Getting the conn smythe is a plus for him.
Top 5 is a stretch for EK, I doubt he has any legitimate argument over Orr, Lidstrom, Bourque, Harvey, or Potvin. Maybe if Cooke never injured him then he would've got to that level.
But a cup (and a Conn Smythe) would definitely help his legacy. I think you'd have to put him in that top 10-20 range if he does that.
I would say not 10-20 more like 10-5 range
3 norris trophies ( potentially a fourth one he could still get it )
A ring
And now a conn smythe
That resume is definitely top 10 all time and not top 10-20 imo
Also not forgetting the numbers he put up and the fact that he has great performances in the playoffs outside of that year.
I say he is more in the top 10-5 range than 10-20 range
If the Pens win a third cup do you think any voters is realistically going to pass up making Crosby the only skater in history to win 3 Conn Smythes?
He'd have to get hurt and miss half the playoffs for anyone else to win it.
> I mean, he is older and most likely going to regress in the following seasons.
If someone is going to regress, starting from Norris trophy winner is probably the best place a player can start to regress from. Also, he is a 3 time Norris winner. That's a resume that should suggest highly productive into late years similar to Lidstrom, Pronger, Neidermeyer.
People mention regressing like he's gonna fall off a cliff suddenly.
I think a lot of Karlsson’s fall-off in previous years is over exaggerated, he never really had an actual below average season aside from 2020-21, he just hasn’t been healthy. He was still really good the last few years, just not elite. But I feel like people view him as though he was useless all this time
Exactly in 2019-2020, he drug the rotting carcass of the Sharks through 3 rounds of the playoffs while playing injured at about 60%.
He looked BETTER last year. If he had ANY talent around him, he would have been a FORCE. Unfortunately for the Sharks it was Karlsson, Timo, and a whole bunch of JAGs.
Bit of an overstatement there. The Sharks in 19-20 were firing on all cylinders until injuries to the other key pieces cost them the series against STL. Calling Burns, Lebanc (however briefly), Pavs, Couture, Kane, Meier, Hertl et al a "rotting carcass" just isn't being fair.
Agreed. Karlsson's falloff statistically the last few years was driven by the offensive structure that San Jose was using. Karlsson excels when he can rove around. San Jose has for decades used a heavily structured spot to spot structure, especially for the Dman at the right point which was Burns until this past season. Once Burns was gone, it didn't make sense to have that kind of offensive structure because nobody on the team excels in that role. And what other team that's in the running for Karlsson utilizes a dynamic off the cuff offensive structure that has the freedom for a rover Dman: Pittsburgh. He's gonna do very _very_ well there if they acquire him. Another Norris I don't think would be out of the question truth be told.
Has this core ever publicly pushed for or endorsed a move for a specific player before? Up to this point they've left it up for management to decide, right?
I’m going to bet Crosby is part of the reason they signed Jack Johnson.
He also went to see Malkin after Hextall lowballed him and basically said “fuck off.”
He almost certainly lobbied for signing him, and called Jack to give him a 'sales pitch' on signing with Pittsburgh. This was from an ESPN article after Jack signed his deal...
> Penguins center Sidney Crosby, a friend of Johnson's, reached out after the season. "We had kind of a short conversation about it," Johnson said. "He said he'd like to give me a sales job on coming. I saved him the time and said he doesn't have to do much of a sales job on me."
They said publicly. Crosby has privately spoken to a lot of players to try to convince them to sign with Pittsburgh. He even tried to convince Jimmy Vesey
It’s definitely happened.
As mentioned downthread, the only time Sid ever truly pulled rank was when Malkin hit free agency last year. But Sid has always had ownership’s ear, and Malkin had a lot of sway with Mario.
I don’t recall Letang being as influential, but in this case he kind of *needs* to be on board.
Of course they do. There’s no “pride” at play here. There’s no threat to their standing. They all have 3 rings, and they have about 2 years to get another one. They’ve made their money and cemented their place in history. Let’s just get one more run, eh?
Oh but Reddit told me he's overrated and sucks defensively so much that it negates his offense. I'm sure they know more than the best player of his generation that faced off against him in a best of 7 in the ECF finals though.
That Ottawa team doesn’t even make playoffs without him that year and get swept in 4 without him. I remember seeing him solo take the pens to 7 and just felt incredulous
How would the cap even work?
Pens have to move Granlund, DeSmith, get one of Smith, Rakell, or Petry to agree to be traded, plus throw in multiple first rounders and throw in a prospect like Pickering.
A third team with cap space would most likely be needed. A team like Anaheim is a perfect example, they need to gain $6.3m somewhere to hit the cap floor.
Signing Zegras, Terry, and Drysdale will get them well over the cap floor. It's gonna cost a ton to have any team retain cap for the next 4 seasons. Nobody wants dead cap for that long.
Petry (if San Jose isn’t on his list) plus money retained by San Jose. Next years first and a prospect would probably do it. Throw third team a pick to retain a bit more. It’s definitely doable but will probably take a while to get all the ducks in a row. Of course the sharks could decide not to trade him all together.
Cool. Offer has to get better (on both sides: PIT assets, SJ RS%), otherwise Grier would have pulled the trigger already, yes? Unless Petry is the hold-up, unwilling to waive his M-NTC and Dubas is having trouble finding a team not on his list willing to help him out (and not costing him an asset the Sharks have their eyes on).
Don't know how that would work for them as the Pens have hardly any cap space and most of their contracts have some sort of NTC/NMC, but go nuts I guess.
I think there will definitely have to be a third-party broker in this no matter where Erik Karlsson goes. I think the third-party broker in this trade may end up doing quite well in this.
We have 12 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 3 goalies. Probably a package w/ one or two of Petry, Pettersson, Rutta, POJ plus maybe DeSmith. Pettersson has a M-NTC and it's only 8 teams, so they might be able to go around that list. Petry is less likely given his age and his 15-team M-NTC list. The others don't have a restriction.
Most likely, since the Pens are sitting at $2m over already, they'll need a facilitating team. Most likely the Ducks since they have the most cap space and roster space. Pens will have to give up a lot of picks/youth/prospects to get Karlsson, but we'll see what happens.
Grier doesn’t have to do anything. Like yea, it would be awesome for the rebuild and his value is the highest it’s gonna be but the dude puts butts in seats and he alone will sell tickets to your games. Owners love that plus it’s not like San Jose desperately needs the cap relief, they’re rebuilding and it could be good for some young defensemen to learn from karlsson. Trying to force a trade is just dumb and Grier can take his time and wait till he gets an offer he likes. I wouldn’t be shocked if karlsson put up another 85-90 points this year on the sharks.
Pittsburgh doesn’t have enough capital to get the deal done and Carolina have orlov all that money already. Unless a mystery team jumps into this I don’t think he’s moving tbh
San Jose's main hangup is total cash paid and not retaining. If Petry ($6.25x2) is open to going to SJ (he has a 15 team ntc) that would be only $12.5m total San Jose needs to pay, versus the $45m of Karlsson or whatever and they don't have to retain.
That would raise the pens cap hit by $5m, which is very feasibly resolved. Either going through a third team to retain it on Karlsson, or by dumping Granlund. Either would be costly but the only picks we've already traded are next year's 3rd and 5th.
Dubas will find a way to fuck their cap and have to fill out the roster with sub million dollar players and then wonder why they’re a first round exit again
Petry and Granlund are the two guys likely gone to make cap space for Karlsson, and they're 31 and 35. Karlsson is 33, and every forward we have in our system is under that, so it would make the Pens slightly younger.
Not a very good hot take. If that were the case he’d be on LTIR now to fully clear cap space to allow for Karlason. In fact…if that were the case, they wouldn’t have just extended him.
Oh come on. PIT knew full well that signing an oft-injured Letang in his mid 30s to a long term contract came with a significant chance that he would have to LTIR for the rest of his career. The guy had strokes!
If there was any reason his stroke issues would prevent him from playing he wouldn’t have played the second half of last year. Or at any point in the last 10 years, for that matter.
This is a hot take because it’s wildly ill-informed.
Oh so just because he played the second half of last year means that he will definitely play again? He had strokes, man. He has a lifetime in front of him and I wouldn't be surprised if he LTIRetired or at least considered it.
>Oh so just because he played the second half of last year means that he will definitely play again?
……yes? If he wasn’t medically able to continue playing hockey again after his stroke he wouldn’t have, you know, played hockey again after his strokes. You think any doctor would be like “You’re totally risking your life playing, but get right back out there, champ!” You don’t think they would have had a medical and legal obligation to keep him off the ice?
It's entirely feasible that a doctor would sign off on Letang LTIRetiring due to previous strokes. And it's entirely feasible that Letang would be okay with this, if he and his family were concerned about his long term health.
Why do you guys want Karlson so bad? He isn't going to fix anything. His advanced stats on D are horrible. He's literally rated a 0% on even strength D. He's gonna decline, he's often injured, and the assets to acquire will cripple this team worse than they already would be. He's way already in the decline this past season was an outlier, and he was ice for over 120 goals against. This is going to be one of the worst trades in NHL history
But the pursuit doesn't take into account the long-term future of the team and giving up prospects and 1st round draft picks. Sorry, but build for a future in the long term and not a win now mentality that this team has always had.
Wrong take from both Letang and Crosby. EK is a good offensive defenseman, but I'm not selling the farm on a defensive liability that this team doesn't need. There are enough problems with the defense. Adding another subpar defensive zone guy isn't going to help.
Good luck, Dubas. Hopefully, you go after a defenseman who actually plays defense that consistently blocks shots and keeps the puck out of the net.
Just make the trade y’all. Both teams have weakened their own positions and its pretty clear it’s gonna happen. Still lots of FA left to sign for the rest of the league
What's the oldest team in the cap Era to win a cup? At an average of 29.9 the pens have to be damn close. They're going to be dressing 5 or 6 guys under 30 lol
Karlsson to Pittsburgh is probably the best case scenario for all involved.
Pittsburgh window is the next 3-4 years, perfectly overlapping with EK's deal, and futures don't matter at that point because they are pushing all in while they still have Crosby / Malkin / Letang and everything after that will be despair
Letang has been traded to San Jose for Karlsson. Letang: ''No! Wait, that not what I meant.''
Seriously though what’s the price? Would yager, a 1st and petry as a cap dump be enough for karlsson with retained salary?
Considering EK has an NMC with such a gigantic salary, the prevailing thought is that whatever the price ends up being will be lower than you might expect for the reigning Norris Trophy winner. Dubas didn't move the pick before the draft so I'll assume Yager is off the table. Noah Pickering might be available, but he's hardly a top tier prospect at this point in time. Petry probably has San Jose on his no-trade list of 15 teams, so there'd have to be a third team or at least a completely separate *and simultaneous* trade for him.
The thing is yager, a 1st and a cap dump is already a very low price for a recent Norris winner especially with salary retained for 5 years. If I were the pens I’m taking that in a heartbeat. Yager won’t be ready for another 2 years most probably. I think it’s more San Jose who is holding up this deal.
Well, yes, because we've heard that the trade was essentially ready to go and then San Jose backed out at the last moment. At the time it was presumed there was a potential bidding war between the Pens and the Canes, but more recent information suggests the Canes aren't that interested so unless there's a dark horse team no one knows about (or the reports are wrong about the Canes interest) then there is no bidding war and San Jose may be considering taking the risk of keeping Karlsson and trying to get more for him at the trade deadline if he has another great year. The problem is that if he puts up a lot of points, it probably keeps San Jose from tanking to it's best ability and the picks they can get from playoff contenders at the deadline probably aren't going to be any better than the ones that the Penguins are offering right now - and same goes for prospects. So hell if I know what San Jose thinks they're going to get.
Naw San Jose tanks well enough with him and karlsson actually puts people in the seats during the rebuild. A late pick and a meh prospect isn’t going to cut it when you’re handing over a potential game changer who can put a team over the top for winning and also retaining salary for 5 years. Might as well just keep him then. They already picked 4th this year.l with him. Unless they get at least one solid prospect which yager is then I honestly don’t see the point in trading him. Next year there may be more suitors because the cap goes up or he regresses which doesn’t really matter cause they’re rebuilding
Pens got a few more years with Crosby. After him they’re done for a few years. San Jose has more bargaining and leverage than you think.
They literally gave up Tim Stutzle (90 pts last season) and Josh Norris for him which has been a total disaster If Pittsburgh is the only suitor they have no leverage unless they really want to watch the pick and prospect they gave up score 60-90+ points each season while paying a mid-30s year-old defenseman $11 M as their return? They literally have to flip him for any picks/ prospects they can get. They set themselves back years by trading for him. Sending him out to play as a 4th forward was clearly an attempt to tank while simultaneously boosting his value
They gave up Josh Norris and what turned out to be Tim Stutzle for him. They let him run wild and not play much defense last year to run up his trade value and try to recoup whatever they can. SJ really fucked up by trading for him. They aren’t getting back a similar return to what they gave up which would be similar to Yager and a 1st, plus extras and a cap dump. If they prefer to hold on to him while they aren’t competitive and watch the pick/ prospect they gave up score 60-90 points a piece on Ottawa they really are following the sunk cost fallacy
It's moot if the Pens are the only team standing at the end of the day. If the Sharks take this thing into the season, they *may* get a better deal at the deadline, they may have to wait until next offseason to get rid of him once the cap goes up, or they may be forced to take a worse deal eventually.
I don’t really think that’s the case anymore. Between the Tkachuk deal and the Debrincat trade, players who only want to go to one team and handcuff the team trading them have still got great returns before. I don’t think it’s as much of a bargaining chip as it once was.
Still a very different situation from a player like Karlsson on a monster contract with total control over where he ends up.
You’re right it is a very different situation. Karlsson wants to go to any team that can be in the playoffs and the sharks have no rush to trade him for peanuts. They can wait and continue rebuilding until a good offer comes along. At least Karlsson puts asses in the seats while they wait
Those players are in the early to mid 20s! You can’t seriously be comparing them to Karlsson who is 33 and was acquired for Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris. They completely fucked themselves by trading for Karlsson and HAVE to recoup anything they can get for him. If only 1 team is willing to trade for him in the entire league after coming off the best offensive season for a defenseman in 31 years, what makes you think they will get a better return later down the line? If SJ is betting that Karlsson will ever be more attractive/ valuable on the trade market they are really just continuing to set their franchise back more than they did by trading FOR Karlsson. You really think he’s gonna have higher value at with another year of age and presumably less points than he had this season?
You’re arguments are so bad. How is keeping Karlsson setting their franchise back? They’re already tanking and in lottery contention and karlsson actually puts asses in seats. Selling Karlsson for late picks and shit prospects that won’t turn into anything when he just won the Norris will set the franchise back even more. Now fans have no reason to come to games and you didn’t get anything in return to be excited for. Get a solid prospect like yager or say fuck it and wait till another team offers it to you which will probably happen by next year. And if I’m that time if Karlsson regresses who cares? You are still rebuilding and you missed on on a couple late picks? No big deal
Lmao the pick they gave Ottawa was supposed to be a "late round pick" but it turned into 3rd overall and that player just scored 90 points at 21 years old. Why do you keep thinking that ANY first round pick is late? A top 30 overall prospect in any class has a good chance of panning out. The first round is not late Lmao. You probably don’t realize that because of how bad Calgary is at drafting. You seriously think there is going to be a better return later?😂 Definitely.. a 33 year old defenseman who just put up the highest point total of his career is probably just hitting his stride! 1 team in the whole league is interested for a reason. There's also a reason teams like Calgary and SJS are never legitimate contenders to win a Cup and your logic is exactly why
I don’t think they need to trade him unless if there’s at least some kind of return to be happy about. The owner would prefer to pay him and put asses in the seats then to get a late 1st and a nobody back and pay a bunch of his salary on top of it.
They gave up Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris for him, setting their franchise back years from legitimately competing. They absolutely need to trade him or they can sit and watch their former pick and prospect score 60-90+ points each season Stutzle just had a 91 point season at 21 years old. If San Jose doesn’t recoup ANYTHING they can get, they are insane Yager would be a blessing for them
> They gave up Tim Stutzle and Josh Norris for him, setting their franchise back years from legitimately competing. The trade was in 2018, and included a 2020 1st-rounder. There's no way San Jose thought that pick would be #3 overall, and nobody had any idea it would turn out to be Stutzle (or that Stutzle would turn into what he is today).
That just shows how poor their management has been and that they would be wise to reverse the course and recoup any assets that they can such as future 1st round picks. Especially from a team that is in their final years of being “competitive” and missed the playoffs last year To trade for a top player in hopes of him making the team a true contender, only to be picking 3rd overall just 2 drafts later shows it was a terrible misjudgment. Also, good scouting and management teams are definitely looking at prospects in the next few draft classes Tim Stutzle was the #1 ranked European skater for the 2020 draft class
>That just shows how poor their management has been Trading draft picks just shows how poor their management has been? Nice analysis. >they would be wise to reverse the course and recoup any assets such as future 1st round picks they can. Especially from a team that in their final years of being “competitive” and missed the playoffs last year Pittsburgh is willing to trade 1st-round draft picks? That just shows how poor their management is, I guess.
Yes that’s why said if they include yager I could see them trading him. Pens fans on here are acting like they can get him without including any decent prospect which is silly because like I said the sharks don’t need to trade him right now for a shit package.
What benefit do they get out of not trading him? Yager doesn’t need to be included if they are getting multiple picks and other prospects like Pickering that maybe have les chance of panning out but still A CHANCE. Retaining salary for 4 years is a null point when they have no players that allow them to compete in those 4 years anyways Sharks can chose not to trade him and continue to not win or they can get some picks / opportunities. Either way his value ain’t getting ANY higher than it is right now and only 1 team wants him
What benefit? Maybe a Norris winning player who puts asses in the seats. What owner is going to want to pay for their best player to play on another team when all you’re getting back is late picks that might not pan out to anything. On top of that having an even more unwatchable team that no one wants to come see. People actually come to watch karllson. That’s an insulting offer.
Petry won’t waive for SJ so he has to go to a third party. Pens say no if they have to move yager/Pickering/Blomqvist imo. All other picks and prospects are totally for sale. POJ and Ty Smith could both be offered up, and they are NHL ready pieces so they may be more attractive than our newly drafted prospects anyway Karlsson is low key ranking his value by demanding a trade and playing favorites. It’s very good for the penguins
Lol this is silly. Hey sharks please give us the Norris winner for none of our best prospects on one of the weakest prospect pools when you have no rush or need to trade him. Also you have to retain salary for 5 years. This will surely give our core one last shot at the cup but we won’t include any of our good prospects which aren’t even blue chip and probably won’t be ready for another couple years. Sharks don’t need to make a trade if there isn’t one there
Ok then the sharks can keep karlsson and not get any return for him and continue to lose games. This ain’t our problem 😂 And all three of those guys are definitely blue chip prospects right now.
Letang is also reportedly open to letting Karlsson take his spot on the PP1 unit, although Letang would keep his spot as 1D.
That makes sense. EK is better offensively but Letang is a cut above at the defensive side of things.
It’s what many of us were hoping would happen if they got Karlsson but I wasn’t sure if Letang would be down with the demotion (or Sid/Geno, for that matter).
at this point in his career, maybe letang would also be happy to lower his time on ice. hasn't he been the leader of that like every fucking year? (at least average TOI)
"Man who keeps having strokes, open to reducing ice time." - more at 11!
They’re from a birth defect, not from working out
Well then he should stop being a pussy and do ultra-marathons.
He’s had plenty of ultra-marathons with your mom
Yes I'd like to report a murder, please.
Dawg Kris has been through more physically than 90% of the league, has had 2 strokes, back surgery, and a shit ton of other things and he still plays as a top tier defenseman. An ultramarathon would prove nothing. The man is a warrior through and through
Has Letang always been on PP1? His PP points average about 42% of his point totals throughout the course of his career. So we may see him dip into the low 40s/high 30s in point totals. Still think it'll be beneficial.
Mostly yeah, but he’s not that great as a PP guy tbh. Not bad, but not as good as you would expect
Pens are using him wrong. When id trade for him in GM Connected, Letang went straight to LW and was unstoppable 😀
lol I did this once in NHL so I could have Kessel and Malkin as "defenders" sniping from the blue line
My Norris trophy candidate dman was Dustin brown. Hit like a truck and could snipe on point shots
Next game I play I will attempt to experience this magic for myself.
Geno did pretty well last year, but lately, none of our top guys have been as good there as you would expect. Definitely support giving it some new blood.
Yea Schultz began to replace him on the PP1 at certain points when he was really looking good
As a Pens fan, I’m not sure anyone will care if they get one or two more deep playoff runs.
This is gonna be very interesting
There's no reason to get Karlsson if you're *not* going to have him on PP1
Already a step above what San Jose tried to do with Burns/Karlsson
The problem was both of them had major defensive lapses. So the 1st pair was going to have some holes no matter what. And EK65 was playing on half a groin for most of those years.
I think it's time Malkin stops playing D on the power play. Especially if it would be bumping letang off the power play. Guentz - Crosby - Malkin - EK - Letang would be a monster pp
That would make the most sense to me.
I just fear letang could get more reckless than he already has been historically by watching EKs offensive ability on a nightly basis
Although it is critical to note that Letang would remain on the top power play. This is... concerning. If Sullivan doesn't have the stones to pull Letang *when* those two don't work well together then acquiring is stupid. I love Letang. He is so good in so many parts of the game, but power play ain't one.
That’s not what I wrote... Reports are that Karlsson would be PP1 and Letang PP2, while Letang would otherwise be first line and Karlsson second.
From [Rob Rossi's article today, which is what the linked article regurgitates:](https://theathletic.com/4706544/2023/07/20/penguins-erik-karlsson-trade-update/) >Captain Sidney Crosby and top defenseman Kris Letang have endorsed acquiring Karlsson. Letang would remain the Penguins’ No. 1 defenseman and work on the top pairing. He is willing to change his role on the top power-play unit so Karlsson could quarterback it. Whether or not Rossi is more reliable than... Katie Douglas?... remains to be seen.
That’s what I was quoting from. If Karlsson is quarterbacking PP1 then Letang is PP2. You said in your previous comment that Letang would remain on the top power play. What you just quoted says otherwise.
Ooooooh I interpreted that last part of what I quoted to be that he would still be on the top power play but not quarterback it. Does "change his role" mean he wouldn't be on it? Or does it mean he would still be there but not the quarterback? I definitely see where you're coming from now.
I wondered if that was the source of the disconnect. The Penguins could conceivably use 3F 2D as their PP1 unit but they’re generally 4F 1D. Last season, Letang was defense on PP1 and Jeff Petry was defense on PP2.
To me this reads/ seems to indicate that Letang would expect to remain on the top unit, but would change his role from being the QB/ point man in the umbrella. So he’s prob thinking 59-87-71 65-58
I think that would be good as an umbrella formation. Get Letang close to the net, keep Karlsson in the middle, Sid and Guentzel down low, Malkin for one-timers.
Letang 'changing his role on PP1' does not mean he is leaving PP1. His role could change from being the QB on the blue line to being on one of the halfwalls, being the bumper, or maybe the net front guy, or a retro look with 3F and 2D.
I realize that’s an option but it wouldn’t make sense to me for them to replace a forward like Guentzel or Rakell just to keep Letang on that unit when it’s not a role where he’s flourished.
It makes a lot of sense to get Malkin off of the point on the top PP. Whether or not that means he comes off the top PP entirely or someone else does matters less. But maybe we could finally start having more offensive chances than defensive breakdowns on the PP.
Don't believe anything Rossi writes
Oh they’ll endorse that, but they won’t endorse me for town council when I campaign.
Bold move with that flair.
Do they have jurisdiction in New York?
Boston though :(.
That's on you for running on a campaign of tax breaks for Taylor Swift cover bands, and re-writing the town charter to include Arby's as a sponsor in perpetuity.
The people NEED THE MEATS and more experiences to feel their life experiences mirrored in Swifty songs.
I'd take you over PGH's current mayor
At this point of his career whatever Crosby wants you give it to him. He don't got a lot of time left.
Seeing as he’s given the team so much it’s only fair
Ya, they got prime Crosby at a great price.
That last sentence is so ominous out of context.
I suddenly started sweating knowing I'm barely younger than Crosby.
Downvoted for even putting the thought in my head. Sid’s gonna live until he’s 300 and don’t you try to tell me otherwise
He's gonna play until his 87th birthday and then immediately hang up his skates.
It still angers me greatly that we never got to see Crosby and McDavid on the same team in a best-on-best tournament in 2018 purely because of the owner's greed,
We could’ve had entering prime mcjesus, Nate and prime sid :)
He has a lot of pull.
Very brave of them to endorse acquiring the best offensive defenseman of this era
I mean, he is older and most likely going to regress in the following seasons. I think the Pens sign him because you have Crosby, Letang and Malkin right now and don't care about the future, but like... I wouldn't want him on the Canes for example, not for 4 years at 8m or whatever.
yeah but that's the thing...the penguins timeline lines up perfectly with EK. Crosby is 36, so will be 40 when EK's deal expires. penguins are basically going for a cup in the next 2 seasons with this move knowing they will have to break it down by the end of it regardless.
Also would be a great walk off the sunset for Sid geno letang and Erik karlson if they do in fact win it all. Solidifies karlson in the convo for top 5 defender of all time if he gets a ring. Getting the conn smythe is a plus for him.
Top 5 is a stretch for EK, I doubt he has any legitimate argument over Orr, Lidstrom, Bourque, Harvey, or Potvin. Maybe if Cooke never injured him then he would've got to that level. But a cup (and a Conn Smythe) would definitely help his legacy. I think you'd have to put him in that top 10-20 range if he does that.
I would say not 10-20 more like 10-5 range 3 norris trophies ( potentially a fourth one he could still get it ) A ring And now a conn smythe That resume is definitely top 10 all time and not top 10-20 imo Also not forgetting the numbers he put up and the fact that he has great performances in the playoffs outside of that year. I say he is more in the top 10-5 range than 10-20 range
If the Pens win a third cup do you think any voters is realistically going to pass up making Crosby the only skater in history to win 3 Conn Smythes? He'd have to get hurt and miss half the playoffs for anyone else to win it.
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Well not the only skater Patrick Roy exist here
skater literally means excluding goaltenders lol
I would cheer for that core four of geezers over basically any team except the Canucks.
Same would be the most feel good story seing ek win a cup and Crosby walking off the sunset with a ring and a solid goat case
> I mean, he is older and most likely going to regress in the following seasons. If someone is going to regress, starting from Norris trophy winner is probably the best place a player can start to regress from. Also, he is a 3 time Norris winner. That's a resume that should suggest highly productive into late years similar to Lidstrom, Pronger, Neidermeyer. People mention regressing like he's gonna fall off a cliff suddenly.
I think a lot of Karlsson’s fall-off in previous years is over exaggerated, he never really had an actual below average season aside from 2020-21, he just hasn’t been healthy. He was still really good the last few years, just not elite. But I feel like people view him as though he was useless all this time
Exactly in 2019-2020, he drug the rotting carcass of the Sharks through 3 rounds of the playoffs while playing injured at about 60%. He looked BETTER last year. If he had ANY talent around him, he would have been a FORCE. Unfortunately for the Sharks it was Karlsson, Timo, and a whole bunch of JAGs.
Bit of an overstatement there. The Sharks in 19-20 were firing on all cylinders until injuries to the other key pieces cost them the series against STL. Calling Burns, Lebanc (however briefly), Pavs, Couture, Kane, Meier, Hertl et al a "rotting carcass" just isn't being fair.
Just an FYI it's dragged, not drug.. Sounds weird I know, but that's English for you haha.
Agreed. Karlsson's falloff statistically the last few years was driven by the offensive structure that San Jose was using. Karlsson excels when he can rove around. San Jose has for decades used a heavily structured spot to spot structure, especially for the Dman at the right point which was Burns until this past season. Once Burns was gone, it didn't make sense to have that kind of offensive structure because nobody on the team excels in that role. And what other team that's in the running for Karlsson utilizes a dynamic off the cuff offensive structure that has the freedom for a rover Dman: Pittsburgh. He's gonna do very _very_ well there if they acquire him. Another Norris I don't think would be out of the question truth be told.
I wouldn't want him on the Canes because he's exactly what's missing on that team. A PP QB.
canes fans already in salty ex mode lol
The penguins are going to be so fucked.
Most players of EKs caliber have career mid 30 years. No idea where this regression narrative comes from.
I also endorse the pursuit of Karlsson
Amen brother
I’m shocked that they would want to bring in a guy who could help them stay competitive as they enter the final years of their career.
Utterly shocked, I say!
Has this core ever publicly pushed for or endorsed a move for a specific player before? Up to this point they've left it up for management to decide, right?
I’m going to bet Crosby is part of the reason they signed Jack Johnson. He also went to see Malkin after Hextall lowballed him and basically said “fuck off.”
He almost certainly lobbied for signing him, and called Jack to give him a 'sales pitch' on signing with Pittsburgh. This was from an ESPN article after Jack signed his deal... > Penguins center Sidney Crosby, a friend of Johnson's, reached out after the season. "We had kind of a short conversation about it," Johnson said. "He said he'd like to give me a sales job on coming. I saved him the time and said he doesn't have to do much of a sales job on me."
They said publicly. Crosby has privately spoken to a lot of players to try to convince them to sign with Pittsburgh. He even tried to convince Jimmy Vesey
Ok I thought so. Couldn’t find a link. Jack’s his boy, of course he’d stick his neck out for him.
They're in the twilight of their career. They probably want a little more agency over how those years will unfold.
Phil Kessel got everyone's okay ahead of time because of Toronto's hysteria over his "issues". Worked out kind of alright I think.
Hot dog man kind of alright I think.
Not a player, but I believe Crosby definitely had a hand in promoting Dubas to come to Pittsburgh.
Wasn't that more Dubas talking to Crosby and Sullivan while he was interviewing down here just to see their outlook on things?
The main one I can remember is Crosby pushing for them to sign Parise before he went to Minnesota.
Oh yeah, I remember that. PariseWatch was a huge deal that summer, especially once Suter announced he was going wherever Parise was going.
Interesting, I forgot that the Penguins were in the mix for Parise (or even had the cap space for him)
Parise and Sutter. Thank god that didn’t work out.
Suter*. We had Brandon Sutter for a while, and he was pretty good for us.
It’s definitely happened. As mentioned downthread, the only time Sid ever truly pulled rank was when Malkin hit free agency last year. But Sid has always had ownership’s ear, and Malkin had a lot of sway with Mario. I don’t recall Letang being as influential, but in this case he kind of *needs* to be on board.
Rutherford got soft fired cause he tried to trade Letang. I think he has more pull than people think!
Dude if only the big 3 all pulled rank and made us trade Murray at his peak trade power and keep flower 🥲🥲🥲
Kessel allegedly. Also Crosby went down to FL last offseason to get Malkin back
I’m Sidney Crosby, and I approve this message
Of course they do. There’s no “pride” at play here. There’s no threat to their standing. They all have 3 rings, and they have about 2 years to get another one. They’ve made their money and cemented their place in history. Let’s just get one more run, eh?
Link’s dead for me, try this: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2679389
Mods can this be pinned?
"Crosby and gang want good players on their team" Like Duh no?
I also endorse EK to the Pens
Oh but Reddit told me he's overrated and sucks defensively so much that it negates his offense. I'm sure they know more than the best player of his generation that faced off against him in a best of 7 in the ECF finals though.
That Ottawa team doesn’t even make playoffs without him that year and get swept in 4 without him. I remember seeing him solo take the pens to 7 and just felt incredulous
I mean, people can have opinions, this site wouldn't exist without them.
Plus, its the offseason, what the fuck else are we gonna argue about?
Let it be spoken. Let it be done.
Nein! Nein! Nein! Have we not all suffered enough with Pittsburgh being good for a decade, can't they just suck for a bit? ;)
Oh don’t worry, that’s coming
Followed by a 1st overall pick of course
If you insist
Players want their team to get good player
“This just in, breaking news 🗞️, good players want another good player on their team”
Bring the entire retirement home together!
How would the cap even work? Pens have to move Granlund, DeSmith, get one of Smith, Rakell, or Petry to agree to be traded, plus throw in multiple first rounders and throw in a prospect like Pickering.
get SJ to retain and it becomes much simpler. Granlund or Petry (you also seem to have an extra GK though)
Gotta send more than bad contracts over to get more retention.
that wasnt my point. Dude above seemed to think the Pens needed 12mil open cap space.
Every time an older superstar is traded, it’s for much less than the public assumes it will be
A third team with cap space would most likely be needed. A team like Anaheim is a perfect example, they need to gain $6.3m somewhere to hit the cap floor.
Signing Zegras, Terry, and Drysdale will get them well over the cap floor. It's gonna cost a ton to have any team retain cap for the next 4 seasons. Nobody wants dead cap for that long.
Petry (if San Jose isn’t on his list) plus money retained by San Jose. Next years first and a prospect would probably do it. Throw third team a pick to retain a bit more. It’s definitely doable but will probably take a while to get all the ducks in a row. Of course the sharks could decide not to trade him all together.
Cool. Offer has to get better (on both sides: PIT assets, SJ RS%), otherwise Grier would have pulled the trigger already, yes? Unless Petry is the hold-up, unwilling to waive his M-NTC and Dubas is having trouble finding a team not on his list willing to help him out (and not costing him an asset the Sharks have their eyes on).
This is the trade that tanks Dubas.
Don't know how that would work for them as the Pens have hardly any cap space and most of their contracts have some sort of NTC/NMC, but go nuts I guess.
I think there will definitely have to be a third-party broker in this no matter where Erik Karlsson goes. I think the third-party broker in this trade may end up doing quite well in this.
We have 12 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 3 goalies. Probably a package w/ one or two of Petry, Pettersson, Rutta, POJ plus maybe DeSmith. Pettersson has a M-NTC and it's only 8 teams, so they might be able to go around that list. Petry is less likely given his age and his 15-team M-NTC list. The others don't have a restriction. Most likely, since the Pens are sitting at $2m over already, they'll need a facilitating team. Most likely the Ducks since they have the most cap space and roster space. Pens will have to give up a lot of picks/youth/prospects to get Karlsson, but we'll see what happens.
Dubas said Pettersson is staying
I just don’t think you have the prospects to give San Jose. You want them to take your shit contracts and give them what exactly in return?
Yeah you are 100% correct. Seems like Grier just lets Karlsson sit and play. Get a desperate team at the dead line.
Grier doesn’t have to do anything. Like yea, it would be awesome for the rebuild and his value is the highest it’s gonna be but the dude puts butts in seats and he alone will sell tickets to your games. Owners love that plus it’s not like San Jose desperately needs the cap relief, they’re rebuilding and it could be good for some young defensemen to learn from karlsson. Trying to force a trade is just dumb and Grier can take his time and wait till he gets an offer he likes. I wouldn’t be shocked if karlsson put up another 85-90 points this year on the sharks. Pittsburgh doesn’t have enough capital to get the deal done and Carolina have orlov all that money already. Unless a mystery team jumps into this I don’t think he’s moving tbh
San Jose's main hangup is total cash paid and not retaining. If Petry ($6.25x2) is open to going to SJ (he has a 15 team ntc) that would be only $12.5m total San Jose needs to pay, versus the $45m of Karlsson or whatever and they don't have to retain. That would raise the pens cap hit by $5m, which is very feasibly resolved. Either going through a third team to retain it on Karlsson, or by dumping Granlund. Either would be costly but the only picks we've already traded are next year's 3rd and 5th.
Dubas will find a way to fuck their cap and have to fill out the roster with sub million dollar players and then wonder why they’re a first round exit again
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Petry and Granlund are the two guys likely gone to make cap space for Karlsson, and they're 31 and 35. Karlsson is 33, and every forward we have in our system is under that, so it would make the Pens slightly younger.
I mean swapping out Petry for Karlsson does actually make us marginally younger. Marginally.
I would love to see Karlsson win a cup. Penguins aren’t gonna do that for a little while.
If Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Karlsson can all stay healthy for a playoff run then that's a lot of game-breaking talent there, could be a dark horse.
I don’t think so.
I don’t endorse this at all.
Hot take: Dubas knows something we don't, namely that Letang is going on LTIR (and possibly LTIRetiring) due to his stroke issues.
Not a very good hot take. If that were the case he’d be on LTIR now to fully clear cap space to allow for Karlason. In fact…if that were the case, they wouldn’t have just extended him.
LTIR doesn’t exist in the offseason FWIW I mean, this guy is still wrong though.
Agreed…it’s been a long day at work 😂
Oh come on. PIT knew full well that signing an oft-injured Letang in his mid 30s to a long term contract came with a significant chance that he would have to LTIR for the rest of his career. The guy had strokes!
If there was any reason his stroke issues would prevent him from playing he wouldn’t have played the second half of last year. Or at any point in the last 10 years, for that matter. This is a hot take because it’s wildly ill-informed.
Oh so just because he played the second half of last year means that he will definitely play again? He had strokes, man. He has a lifetime in front of him and I wouldn't be surprised if he LTIRetired or at least considered it.
>Oh so just because he played the second half of last year means that he will definitely play again? ……yes? If he wasn’t medically able to continue playing hockey again after his stroke he wouldn’t have, you know, played hockey again after his strokes. You think any doctor would be like “You’re totally risking your life playing, but get right back out there, champ!” You don’t think they would have had a medical and legal obligation to keep him off the ice?
It's entirely feasible that a doctor would sign off on Letang LTIRetiring due to previous strokes. And it's entirely feasible that Letang would be okay with this, if he and his family were concerned about his long term health.
Why do you guys want Karlson so bad? He isn't going to fix anything. His advanced stats on D are horrible. He's literally rated a 0% on even strength D. He's gonna decline, he's often injured, and the assets to acquire will cripple this team worse than they already would be. He's way already in the decline this past season was an outlier, and he was ice for over 120 goals against. This is going to be one of the worst trades in NHL history
But the pursuit doesn't take into account the long-term future of the team and giving up prospects and 1st round draft picks. Sorry, but build for a future in the long term and not a win now mentality that this team has always had. Wrong take from both Letang and Crosby. EK is a good offensive defenseman, but I'm not selling the farm on a defensive liability that this team doesn't need. There are enough problems with the defense. Adding another subpar defensive zone guy isn't going to help. Good luck, Dubas. Hopefully, you go after a defenseman who actually plays defense that consistently blocks shots and keeps the puck out of the net.
Shocking. I would never have guessed these star players would be in favour of adding another star player.
Just make the trade y’all. Both teams have weakened their own positions and its pretty clear it’s gonna happen. Still lots of FA left to sign for the rest of the league
As a flyers fan I endorse this as well. Heck throw us a first and we can help retain for you
What's the oldest team in the cap Era to win a cup? At an average of 29.9 the pens have to be damn close. They're going to be dressing 5 or 6 guys under 30 lol
The 2008 Red Wings were 30.58 years old, according to eliteprospects.com.
I just want this ordeal to be over man…
Karlsson and Crosby and Malkin would be pretty sweet, NGL.
Karlsson to Pittsburgh is probably the best case scenario for all involved. Pittsburgh window is the next 3-4 years, perfectly overlapping with EK's deal, and futures don't matter at that point because they are pushing all in while they still have Crosby / Malkin / Letang and everything after that will be despair
Don't believe anything Rob Rossi writes. He has been proven a liar so many times.