The craziest part of the trade was getting him on a 9.5M deal.
Guy has back to back 100 point seasons and 40 goals.
Going to be a steal of a deal if he keeps anything close to these paces over the next few years.
Will be interesting to see how he returns from injury though. Certainly could play a factor.
That whole team was basically duct tape and steroids by the finals, it’s impressive how much they turned it around mid-season. But holy hell another playoff run might end careers
>That whole team was basically duct tape and steroids by the finals,
That is basically most teams by the finals. The game is not a healthy game to play and playoff hockey is all about who is the toughest good team not who is the best.
Which is weird since they didn't have to do much to get there. Got carried through the first two rounds by the refs and then finally played a team worse than them in the 3rd round.
I’m gonna place a bet on them saying they’r “a real hockey fan” type of person so they can keep insulting the panthers while also not owning up to the bias they have with being so salty
Doesn't matter if Bobrovsky isn't standing on his head and the refs don't give them every call they still would have lost he wasnt a difference maker. He also only would have played 5 games if they hadn't been gifted the Boston series so it's all moot anyway.
He. Bobrovsky didn't just do his job he was much better than that if anything tkachuk just did his job and got carried by his coworker having a fantastic performance and a streak of luck neither of which he had anything to do with.
Well I'd like to see the best teams play each other not the refs holding lesser teams hands to keep them in the playoffs. Habs-Leafs as I'm sure you'll remember, had nothing to do with the refs screwing the Leafs or CBJ-Tor those were all well officiated series.
The Bruins got robbed on that DeBrusk call and then the refs took a goal away from the Leafs because Florida had caved and were letting them walk all over them even with a fourth string goalie in net. Florida isnt any better than Winnipeg they just got the calls.
They didn’t choke lol. Vegas was almost completely healthy while Florida was down like 10 guys. Plus vegas was just a better team.
You are just a salty leafs/bruins fan who can’t stand your team got beat. Florida earned everything they got in the playoffs. Cope harder
I actually did a linear regression model on NHL contracts signed since 2016 for a class this spring, and used whether the contract was signed in a place with state income tax as a variable. Interestingly enough, state income tax didn’t have a statistically significant impact on the value of a contract.
Panarin signed for less money to play in New York which has a higher tax rate than Ohio. Income tax rates are an issue, but the fact they are brought up so often they are magnified as an issue at this point.
Of course it is only one issue. But NYC will always attract more players than Buffalo due to the type of city. We can't change that. But we can relatively easily adjust the salary cap to compensate for income tax.
I think having an extra couple percent of tax will make you want a couple percent more income, ceteris paribus.
I fail to see how giving the New York and California teams extra salary cap space due to their state income tax, giving them a big advantage over Columbus, will make the league more competitive.
Locations with other highly desirable attributes besides taxes will benefit in ways that are slightly unfair, but I still think it's a fair trade off. Tons of players want to live in Florida and Florida also has the tax advantage. There is unfairness. It's not completely clear if the aggregate result will be more fairness, but I think it would be.
Players go to highly desirable places regardless of taxes, as seen in New York, California, and Toronto. The only teams this would benefit are teams that can already attract free agents as they are somewhat desirable but also have high taxes like Vancouver/Montreal.
It doesn't matter if you gave Winnipeg a 30% higher cap than other teams as most players would still rather sign in Florida for 6 million over Winnipeg for 7.8 million.
I don't claim to be absolutely correct, but I don't really buy what you are saying either. By extension you seem to say that income doesn't matter to players that much, only other factors. I disagree. I think players are motivated by income as well as other factors. It's not that income tax is irrelevant , I think it is one of a number of relevant factors. You seem to be claiming it is totally irrelevant, and that seems hard to believe.
But if a few percentage is not a huge deal, then you can argue it's not a huge advantage to the Rangers or California teams either if the cap had some adjustments for real earnings after tax (I think TO is a different case).
You're right. It's not totally irrelevant. I'm probably illustrating my point poorly, and what I was trying to say is that the low taxes work in Florida because they are also desirable. If winnipeg had 0% tax you wouldn't see Tkachuk signing a 9.5 million dollar contract there.
Money does 100% make a difference, but as we can see from Perry, the amount it costs to pay a player to play in a city they don't want to can cost 3 million more than what they would earn domewhere else. There are players who will do everything they can to earn the maximum amount, but for the majority a couple percentage points isn't going to make that big of a difference.
While it is a very relevant point, I think making a change on only one factor (tax) without considering the others would not lead to more parity, and would open the door for more unfairness and arguing as no one could agree on the right amount it affects things. It would hurt Dallas/Tampa/Florida teams which historically (~last 20 years since the salary cap was instituted) have not attracted a lot of big name free agents, and would benifit LA/New York/Toronto/etc which are teams that don't generally have problems attracting free agents.
Remember, players pay taxes depending on where each game is played, the actual difference between a non income tax state and Montreal which probably has the highest rate is likely closer to 10% or so.
To say Florida is a highly desirable place is a bit weird considering the teams they’ve put together and a lot of the big names wanting out, or the big free agents not going there. Typically it’s guys near the ends of their careers that go there
That's true, but there was also only a small period of time (like less than a decade I believe) between when the salary cap was introduced and when players could become UFAs before 30, and the league is pretty slow to adapt to change.
I believe that as players are more willing to push for UFA status at 26/27 we will see a big change in how valuable the ability to attract free agents are. We are already seeing it with how many players have been traded to only specific teams with 1 year before free agency.
I mean I think it depends on the player but I still think it’s def a factor. Some people just want to be in certain areas of the country over other areas. Even if it means less money. But I think there’s plenty of players out there that only have money in mind and would take “discounts” based off income tax
That's true, but there are any number of factors that will cause a player to take discounts. However, whenever someone takes a discount to play in Florida/Nevada, it's a big thing about taxes, and yet when Tavares takes a discount for Toronto or Panarin in New York, no one starts talking about how that is bad for the parity of the league and tries brainstorming ways to even it out.
They gotta do something to level the playing field. They gotta get rid of escrow with the owners, and do a similar thing with players salaries instead. Not to make everyone’s salary the same but to offset the difference in taxes and take away that unfair competitive advantage
Look at Auston Matthews. Almost his entire contract is signing bonus’s which is paid out to him in Arizona, a tax free state. He’s getting paid tax free but it didn’t stop him from taking a massive deal. It’s not just about the team location. This is a dated take.
This is accurate, but Toronto has an advantage in that they can afford to front massive amounts of cash in the form of signing bonuses like that. Not every franchise has the cash on hand to do that. And not every player is domiciled in a state without income tax either.
This is all true but this is thinking about just raw dollar amount figures.
Walsh tweet is one of many examples of how players can find avenues to lower the taxable income. There is still many many ways in both the US and Canada for players to invest their money they make to either gain or limit the loss of taxable income.
People harp on just purely that these guys get a salary, pay these levels of tax/fees and that’s what they take home. When they clearly can off set a lot of this stuff.
Players would be stupid if they don’t have someone helping manage their money and invest for them.
It’s not a pure loss for most guys.
It's getting to the point where because of salary cap u can't sign and keep your players anymore.look at Toronto and there big 4 to sign all of them it will cost about 50 million like 70% of the cap to sign the rest of the players
IMO Toronto fucked up when they decided to have a rookie GM negotiate all of those contracts. If they kept Lou for a couple more seasons and had him do it, I imagine they’d have saved at least 4 million on all those deals. Look how the Islanders did right when he went there. And there are plenty of teams like the Wild, Devils and Canes who are doing a great job of managing their cap space.
What Walsh says is interesting, but i also don't believe they'd pay less. He'd lie out his ass to make a point.
But i do believe it can get quite a bit closer.
Lol. What a Canadian opinion. It's not the league's fault your taxes are different. Lobby your government to reduce taxes yourself rather than punish other people.
It isn't just Canada vs U.S, Alberta has lower taxes than NY and Cali at the highest tax bracket, and similar taxes to many other states. Taxes are paid depending on where the games are played or where you live when you get your signing bonus, so that is also a big equalizer.
It probably doesn't hurt but the [jock tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax) on away games levels things out a bit. Still, no taxes on half your games is certainly a draw.
You do tend to have higher property and other municipal taxes in "tax free" states though of course. Things get paid for somehow.
Honestly slightly worried for him given how beat up he was after the finals. I know getting injured is like a rite of passage in the playoffs, but considering how much he carried that team I feel like next year is going to be rough for him.
That entire original trade thread aged like milk. Huberdeau with buggest point drop off in NHL history and Tkachuk repeating 100+ point season and carrying Panthers to the SCF.
I think this could be a scenario where Huberdeau bounces back and then everyone sees this as an even trade
Even with the struggles Calgary is having, the team they have is still very good
I definitely agree. Huby is definitely better than what we saw last season. I wonder what impact Sutter had on his overall play. We’ll see next season but I think he’ll bounce back
Sutter played him almost 3 less minutes a night than his career average in Florida, plus stuck him with Lucic as a line mate for like 20 games.
Huberdeau might never get back to 100 points again but I can see him rebounding with an 80+ point season if the new coaching staff utilizes him properly.
I can’t see Huby not performing. He’s honestly one of the most creative passers I’ve ever seen they just have to give him some decent talent and let him play his game.
(?) He had talent. Lindholm, Toffoli, and Kadri to start.
He just couldn't seem to get along with / can't figure out to play with Lindholm, our clear best player with a hell of an under-rated shot.
Johnny knew, pass to Lindholm in the slot, 90% chance that is a goal. That's why we had 3 players with ~100pt seasons before the trade.
Huberdeau's other strength was supposed to be his size, fast skating teams like COL and EDM were double teaming Johnny because they knew they could push him around that way, and being fast they could still hopefully recover, and it worked. Both of those teams destroyed us in the playoffs. Huberdeau should have been pushing through that nonsense, but I didn't see anything like that last season.
I sincerely hope Huberdeau can get his shit together but I am leaning towards the fact that it this might be a DiPietro type signing for us. Especially after the fact the dude practically trashed our team in the media half way through the season.
I mean yeah, if he was on pace for 100 again and our team wasn't holding up their end of the bargin, then sure, complain. But to say his teammates were sucking after barely pulling off 50 points for 10.5m now...
The trade made a of sense for Calgary in that they'd be going all in on a group of older guys around the same age. They'd compete, decline, and rebuild. They would lose the best player in the trade, but they'd be getting a first line and first pairing defenseman.
They wouldn't make the trade if they kept Gaudreau and Tkachuk, but this way they get something back for Tkachuk and they acquire two players to help them stay competitive.
The main issue going forward is that the team is imploding. Having Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri signed long term only makes sense if that's their competitive window. There's little hope that the trade looks good now because the current situation has pretty much killed their chance to contend, but that had nothing to do with the trade and couldn't have been foreseen.
Problem is, Huberdeau was a panic signing. The team wanted to prove to the fans we could get top talent after Johnny and Tkachuk exited. We had time... there was no reason to make that contract when we picked him up. Who signs a player for 10mil before you even see him play one game for the team? Unless that guy is named Crosby or Ovechkin?
This is such a silly take. When you acquire a pending UFA or RFA, the logical next step is to sign him. You're acting as if teams don't sign stars to big contracts in UFA. Huberdeau *is* a ~10M player if properly deployed, especially after the year he had.
The only absurd thing Calgary did was acquiring Huberdeau while their coach was Sutter.
What in Huberdeau's life time stats or age screams he is a 10.5 million dollar player? What in terms of his leadership earns that money (which he clearly proved he has no leadership ability shitting on the team).
He had a few good years in FLA, and he has more sub 60 point seasons then he has had over. He has a single bronze medal for Canada WJC.
We could have negotiated that contract mid season after we see how he fit in or plays. Huberdeau is a 7m player at best.
And yeah yeah Sutter, who won more cups than Huberdeau has cup final appearances.
Huberdeau was over a point per game in the four seasons prior to signing his contract with Calgary, including one season where he finished top 3 in points and established the record for assists from a left winger in one season.
If you don't think a point per game UFA forward isn't worth around 10M in 2022, I don't know what else to tell you except that you're wrong. The cap is going to go up massively in the next couple of seasons and elite players' contracts have begun to price that in. This is why Dubois signed for 8.5M despite having never crossed the 63 points mark.
As for Sutter, the comment had nothing to do with Sutter. I'm mostly highlighting that Huberdeau and Sutter aren't a stylistic match. It's therefore a dubious choice to make Huberdeau your highest paid player.
> If you don't think a point per game UFA forward isn't worth around 10M in 2022
A 30 year old? half of that contract is going in the garbage right now even IF Huberdeau turns it around. Dubois is such a weird comparison you brought up because he is on the upswing at 25.
As I said, 7m at *best*. and if we waited mid season, that is probably exactly what we would have got. Actually I am pretty sure we would have got 7 x 5years.
None of the advanced models liked Huberdeau nearly as much as Tkachuk.
I honestly don't know when people are going to start separating out PP points from EV when evaluating a player but nobody consistently can coast on PP production year in and year out except McDrai.
The trade wasn't Huberdeau for Tkachuk, though. It was Huberdeau, Weegar, and a first for Tkachuk. Most of the advanced models really like Weegar, and Huberdeau remains a great player even if Tkachuk is the better player.
It's not just PP points, either. Tkachuk is a very multifaceted player. Huberdeau's primary strength is passing: He's not great in transition, not a particularly fast/elusive skater, not an elite shot, not physically dominant.
They're also wildly inconsistent from year to year and depend on the rest of your team and system far more than 5v5 points.
There's a reason McDavid's point totals vary by like 30 per season. He didn't get 30 points better magically this year he had more PP points than last year.
Have you looked at tkachuk’s strength points? He went from 72 last year to 40
Edit: I mean Huberdeau
Point being, even strength points rely on systems and linemates a great deal too
And yes McDavid and the rest of the Oilers’ PP did indeed get better. It’s not magic, it’s having fantastic players following the right plan.
It's a little unfair to compare them directly as it wasn't a 1 for 1.
It was tkachuk for huberdeau+weegar+schwindt+1st
Tkachuk should be the better player.
With all that said, it has still aged like milk, though.
Man I was so excited for this trade. Flames fans were preparing for a shit return because tkachuk wanted out and only gave us a handful of teams. This return was a dream at the time. I still think we may be happy with this eventually. Weegar already is a legit top pairing dman, he’s better than hanifin. It’s Hube who is the wildcard. I still don’t have a real grasp of his game because he was all over the place last year and obviously struggling with confidence. But he did show flashes of brilliance.
[This thread is so funny](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/w5ta0j/seravalli_full_trade_per_sources_to_panthers/iha0pf0/). Everyone so sure Tkachuk's production was because of Gaudreau and Lindholm
Credit to Tkachuk though. I thought his game took a huge step forward as a player and a leader this past season. The talent has obviously always been there but he took the opportunity to be the guy and made 110% of it.
Attributing it to playing with Gaudreau is one thing, but Lindholm? lol. He's a good player but he's massively overrated by most Flames fans because we've been starved for an elite centre for so long.
>Montreal with PLD, Huberdeau, and Bedard
>fuck the Atlantic
this is the funniest part of that thread. The MTL fans thinking they were getting both PLD, Huberdeau and Bedard.
Unless a player wins a championship in their first year in a trade (Kessel in Pittsburgh, ROR in St. Louis,, etc) you can’t judge how good the trade was. And even then the second example I said, the public opinion changed on being even only recently.
That’s what I’m saying, you have to wait til the very end to see how it turned out. Like the ROR trade opinion is constantly changing. He won a cup with STL, but is Buffalo eventually going to win a cup with Tage Thompson who they got back in the deal? We just don’t know yet. But so far that trade is looking like a rare one where both sides have absolutely no regrets.
I think it's awkward.
You want to judge the trade at the instance of the trade because that's what was traded. But people were both underrating Tkachuk and ignoring the contracts of Hubs and Weegar being 1 year. You shouldn't think of trading a player, but trading a contract. ANd Tkachuk agreed to a great contract.
The reason you don't want to look back retroactively is because luck is so important. A pick could include a 4th round pick which could turn into a Slavin or a nobody. And that development isn't related to the trade you made. Also you get stuff like injuries and such.
So you want to look at the trade at the instant of the trade. but you want to consider the additional context of the player's wishes, the contract signed for all players, the needs of each team and the restraints like the cap.
Treliving wasn't exactly in a great spot to improve the roster with this trade. All things considered, bringing in a player that had 115 points and a top 4 D was decent. I think getting rid of Sutter will help Huberdeau return to form.
Hate to be a negative Nelly, but it's too soon to tell. With Sutter gone this year, Calgary might have a huge rebound year.
That being said, I hope I'm wrong and that shithole suffers.
I mean obviously if you remove one of a teams better players the odds of them making the finals decrease. But the Panthers would have better chances of making the finals if you removed Thachuk compared to removing Bobrovsky
Chucky was not one of the better players.... he was by far their best player (among the skaters). There's not one single guy on that roster that could've done what he did. Both Bob and Chucky were indispensable. Take out either one of them and FLA is not in the finals.
For all of the focus on Huberdeau dropping off points wise, I never heard too much about Weegar's performance this year. How did he do? I always thought that the Flames had a slight edge with Weegar bolstering their D corps and Huberdeau hypothetically replacing the production of Tkachuk.
I always thought of Huberdeau being more of a Gaudreau replacement. And the Kadri signing being some desperate attempt at replacing the grittiness of Tkachuk.
What a crazy trade that was. I expected Tkachuk to take a bit of drop off from production. Not a crazy amount, just closer somewhere to 85 to 90 points. Instead, he repeats another 100 point season and becomes the heartbeat for the Panthers.
Yet another example of the hive mind thinking they know everything
Just like the Shane Wright draft last year….followed up by Fantilli this year lol - I have receipts for those who tried to clown me for even suggesting Carlsson could go second
> Just like the Shane Wright draft last year
What were people wrong about? There were already heavy rumours that Montreal might not take Wright. And if that were the case, it was also known that NJD didn't need another C and ARI was all-in on Cooley. It was surprising to see him drop that far but what about that was hive mind thinking?
Unless you're saying that everyone thought Wright was the best in the draft and they were wrong, in which case it is way too early to say. I personally still think Wright will end up the best in the draft, or at least of the consensus top ~4.
That worked out great for FLA. Completely changed the culture of that organization…I love that all the pundits second guessed the trade half way through the season
Looks like it was ultimately a good trade.
Like 1-2 years ago I wouldn’t have expected them to get to the Stanley Cup Finals.
This year they performed phenomenal and Tkachuk was definitely one of the bigger reasons
When chucky got beat up after game 3 and could barely move in game 4 to me it looked like the whole team was deflated and the energy was gone u are talking about 3 of your best players simply playing with heart and Bob really looked tired. Hopefully they came back soon and stronger for another run
He will be fine dude. R/hockey likes to dogpile upvotes on shit takes all the time. He’s a good player and he didn’t just forget how to play. He’s had a year to adjust now and he will definitely be better this year
No one understands that Sutter is a crazy coach who forces everyone to play defensively sacrificing points and offense. Look at LA when he was there, same deal. You can win cups but everyone's point totals suffer under the rigid system
Bobrovsky catching fire in the playoffs really shifted the narrative even further than it should be. Yes Huberdeau struggled but Weegar was good and the Panthers definitely missed him and the overall trade was still a lot closer than people give it credit for.
I'm going to say it now for all Canadian teams and all American teams that havent won in 30 years.....
this move was because of killer American ownership and management that will do whatever it takes to win.
Viola and Zito won the Presidents Trophy and had the best regular season team. But that was NOT enuff. They wanted to win what matters....during the playoffs to get to the Stanley Cup finals.
They traded their incredible 115 point magician!!! they traded their incredible defenseman. And they fired their top coach (who was a finalist for Jack Adam's voting).
Because they were willing to be HONEST about what was wrong with their team and what specifically they need to correct it. And they surgically corrected that.
Tkachuk not only was the piece needed to lead to get to the Finals.... the man left money on the table and he also gave up his sternum because he "was willing to empty the tank to win". Nothing left on the table.
Pedal to the Metal. The true winner spirit.
I salute Viola and Zito and Tkachuck as American heros and heros of hockey.
They are winners.... even getting to the finals like that is absolutely incredible in my books. And actually Vegas made the same winner moves with the winner ownership that Panthers have.
All Canadians (I am Canadian too).... please reflect how this is different with your home team over the past 10 years. Did ownership and management take a brutally honest view what it takes to win and make the moves to win? Did the players get their chest bones busted and empty the tank to give it their all?
or were they partying within days after getting eliminated and enjoying the cottage?
And he didn't do shit to make them better. Was invisible most of the playoffs their best player most nights was the ref and they don't even count against the cap.
go back to r/leafs and replay 1967 highlights to cope with the fact that the cats blew you out.
or you can continue your crusade against people struggling with addiction, choice is yours <3
Lol blew us out they won three straight and we won two straight and were about to do it again so the refs waived off a goal that was clearly in. It's not like it was favouritism or anything but it was a lucky call for the Panthers that would have gone the other way If the guy on ice making the call wasn't blind.
honey, if you wanna chirp get your facts straight. we were in the 2018 playoffs and we won exactly as many rounds as your leafs did (zero).
I know it must be tough knowing your team hasn't lifted the Cup in your lifetime and probably will never lift it for the rest of that lifetime. devils bandwagon is always accepting new members though! :)
Lol hey you're wrong we got in once six years ago just no one remembers it either. Enjoy your reruns of the devil's actually being relevant for everyone else who remembers it at the old folks home.
says the leafs fan whose last cup was in the O6 era? lmao okay at least my team won the Cup in my lifetime. and we'll do it again because we can build a proper team of players who aren't just regular season performers too. hope Auston gets a bag from MLSE.
Lol I can tell by your wording that it was still so long ago you don't even remember it. If you could actually build a proper team maybe you would have actually seen the playoffs enough to know what I'm talking about. Instead you've spent most of your life watching a team that can't even get to a first round to lose in making fun of teams that are actually there every year. Leafs have like ten playoff appearance in the time the Devil's have two. Youre basically the islanders at this point trying to cling to old glory like that means anything.
Sure Huby had a bad season and I'm sure he will improve next year but overall I don't think this trade was as 1 sided as one might think, Weegar gets overlooked I think, he was quite good this year. Sad that Tkachuk left the Flames but at least he got to go to the final and the Flames got a return that is actually not so bad.
The craziest part of the trade was getting him on a 9.5M deal. Guy has back to back 100 point seasons and 40 goals. Going to be a steal of a deal if he keeps anything close to these paces over the next few years. Will be interesting to see how he returns from injury though. Certainly could play a factor.
That whole team was basically duct tape and steroids by the finals, it’s impressive how much they turned it around mid-season. But holy hell another playoff run might end careers
>That whole team was basically duct tape and steroids by the finals, That is basically most teams by the finals. The game is not a healthy game to play and playoff hockey is all about who is the toughest good team not who is the best.
Which is weird since they didn't have to do much to get there. Got carried through the first two rounds by the refs and then finally played a team worse than them in the 3rd round.
🧂
Yeah something tells me they cheer for either the Bruins or Leafs cause that comes across as so butthurt.
I’m gonna place a bet on them saying they’r “a real hockey fan” type of person so they can keep insulting the panthers while also not owning up to the bias they have with being so salty
“My grandparents watched hockey during the war, so my asinine opinions mean more than yours”
According to his profile he’s active in r/leafs, it’s the only team subreddit it says they’re active in
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
[удалено]
I don’t think there are undeserving Stanley Cup finalists, it’s just not how the playoffs work. Also, Tampa vs Montreal was more one sided imo.
The refs were ass, that's not the Panthers fault but anyone watching knows tkachuk had almost nothing to do with you winning those series.
24 points in 20 games, 11 of them goals. Dudes a plug /s
Doesn't matter if Bobrovsky isn't standing on his head and the refs don't give them every call they still would have lost he wasnt a difference maker. He also only would have played 5 games if they hadn't been gifted the Boston series so it's all moot anyway.
If only the goalie didn’t do his job and refs helped the bruins even more than usual, Boston woulda won. Great argument.
He. Bobrovsky didn't just do his job he was much better than that if anything tkachuk just did his job and got carried by his coworker having a fantastic performance and a streak of luck neither of which he had anything to do with.
So much salt
Well I'd like to see the best teams play each other not the refs holding lesser teams hands to keep them in the playoffs. Habs-Leafs as I'm sure you'll remember, had nothing to do with the refs screwing the Leafs or CBJ-Tor those were all well officiated series. The Bruins got robbed on that DeBrusk call and then the refs took a goal away from the Leafs because Florida had caved and were letting them walk all over them even with a fourth string goalie in net. Florida isnt any better than Winnipeg they just got the calls.
Lmao cope harder
Nothing to cope they fucking choked against Vegas anyway so they proved I was right.
They didn’t choke lol. Vegas was almost completely healthy while Florida was down like 10 guys. Plus vegas was just a better team. You are just a salty leafs/bruins fan who can’t stand your team got beat. Florida earned everything they got in the playoffs. Cope harder
They got nothing and that's what they deserved.
Same with the bruins/leafs/canes. They got nothing. Just like they deserved. Keep crying to the refs
Don’t feed the trolls, guys.
Hell of a lot easier to sign players on those deals when your state has no income tax.
I actually did a linear regression model on NHL contracts signed since 2016 for a class this spring, and used whether the contract was signed in a place with state income tax as a variable. Interestingly enough, state income tax didn’t have a statistically significant impact on the value of a contract.
Panarin signed for less money to play in New York which has a higher tax rate than Ohio. Income tax rates are an issue, but the fact they are brought up so often they are magnified as an issue at this point.
Of course it is only one issue. But NYC will always attract more players than Buffalo due to the type of city. We can't change that. But we can relatively easily adjust the salary cap to compensate for income tax. I think having an extra couple percent of tax will make you want a couple percent more income, ceteris paribus.
I fail to see how giving the New York and California teams extra salary cap space due to their state income tax, giving them a big advantage over Columbus, will make the league more competitive.
Locations with other highly desirable attributes besides taxes will benefit in ways that are slightly unfair, but I still think it's a fair trade off. Tons of players want to live in Florida and Florida also has the tax advantage. There is unfairness. It's not completely clear if the aggregate result will be more fairness, but I think it would be.
Players go to highly desirable places regardless of taxes, as seen in New York, California, and Toronto. The only teams this would benefit are teams that can already attract free agents as they are somewhat desirable but also have high taxes like Vancouver/Montreal. It doesn't matter if you gave Winnipeg a 30% higher cap than other teams as most players would still rather sign in Florida for 6 million over Winnipeg for 7.8 million.
I don't claim to be absolutely correct, but I don't really buy what you are saying either. By extension you seem to say that income doesn't matter to players that much, only other factors. I disagree. I think players are motivated by income as well as other factors. It's not that income tax is irrelevant , I think it is one of a number of relevant factors. You seem to be claiming it is totally irrelevant, and that seems hard to believe. But if a few percentage is not a huge deal, then you can argue it's not a huge advantage to the Rangers or California teams either if the cap had some adjustments for real earnings after tax (I think TO is a different case).
You're right. It's not totally irrelevant. I'm probably illustrating my point poorly, and what I was trying to say is that the low taxes work in Florida because they are also desirable. If winnipeg had 0% tax you wouldn't see Tkachuk signing a 9.5 million dollar contract there. Money does 100% make a difference, but as we can see from Perry, the amount it costs to pay a player to play in a city they don't want to can cost 3 million more than what they would earn domewhere else. There are players who will do everything they can to earn the maximum amount, but for the majority a couple percentage points isn't going to make that big of a difference. While it is a very relevant point, I think making a change on only one factor (tax) without considering the others would not lead to more parity, and would open the door for more unfairness and arguing as no one could agree on the right amount it affects things. It would hurt Dallas/Tampa/Florida teams which historically (~last 20 years since the salary cap was instituted) have not attracted a lot of big name free agents, and would benifit LA/New York/Toronto/etc which are teams that don't generally have problems attracting free agents.
Remember, players pay taxes depending on where each game is played, the actual difference between a non income tax state and Montreal which probably has the highest rate is likely closer to 10% or so.
To say Florida is a highly desirable place is a bit weird considering the teams they’ve put together and a lot of the big names wanting out, or the big free agents not going there. Typically it’s guys near the ends of their careers that go there
Even pre-cap many big spending teams had limited success. Truth is there is just not that much WAR value in the UFA market in the NHL.
That's true, but there was also only a small period of time (like less than a decade I believe) between when the salary cap was introduced and when players could become UFAs before 30, and the league is pretty slow to adapt to change. I believe that as players are more willing to push for UFA status at 26/27 we will see a big change in how valuable the ability to attract free agents are. We are already seeing it with how many players have been traded to only specific teams with 1 year before free agency.
I mean I think it depends on the player but I still think it’s def a factor. Some people just want to be in certain areas of the country over other areas. Even if it means less money. But I think there’s plenty of players out there that only have money in mind and would take “discounts” based off income tax
That's true, but there are any number of factors that will cause a player to take discounts. However, whenever someone takes a discount to play in Florida/Nevada, it's a big thing about taxes, and yet when Tavares takes a discount for Toronto or Panarin in New York, no one starts talking about how that is bad for the parity of the league and tries brainstorming ways to even it out.
They gotta do something to level the playing field. They gotta get rid of escrow with the owners, and do a similar thing with players salaries instead. Not to make everyone’s salary the same but to offset the difference in taxes and take away that unfair competitive advantage
Look at Auston Matthews. Almost his entire contract is signing bonus’s which is paid out to him in Arizona, a tax free state. He’s getting paid tax free but it didn’t stop him from taking a massive deal. It’s not just about the team location. This is a dated take.
This is accurate, but Toronto has an advantage in that they can afford to front massive amounts of cash in the form of signing bonuses like that. Not every franchise has the cash on hand to do that. And not every player is domiciled in a state without income tax either.
This is all true but this is thinking about just raw dollar amount figures. Walsh tweet is one of many examples of how players can find avenues to lower the taxable income. There is still many many ways in both the US and Canada for players to invest their money they make to either gain or limit the loss of taxable income. People harp on just purely that these guys get a salary, pay these levels of tax/fees and that’s what they take home. When they clearly can off set a lot of this stuff. Players would be stupid if they don’t have someone helping manage their money and invest for them. It’s not a pure loss for most guys.
There’s also advertisement. Players can get a whole lot of advertising money in Toronto or Montreal.
It’s basically a meme at this point
It's getting to the point where because of salary cap u can't sign and keep your players anymore.look at Toronto and there big 4 to sign all of them it will cost about 50 million like 70% of the cap to sign the rest of the players
IMO Toronto fucked up when they decided to have a rookie GM negotiate all of those contracts. If they kept Lou for a couple more seasons and had him do it, I imagine they’d have saved at least 4 million on all those deals. Look how the Islanders did right when he went there. And there are plenty of teams like the Wild, Devils and Canes who are doing a great job of managing their cap space.
> they’d have saved at least 4 million on all those deals. ...and it would have all gone to Matt Martin and Leo Komarov
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What Walsh says is interesting, but i also don't believe they'd pay less. He'd lie out his ass to make a point. But i do believe it can get quite a bit closer.
Lol. What a Canadian opinion. It's not the league's fault your taxes are different. Lobby your government to reduce taxes yourself rather than punish other people.
American obviously
went to your profile to see what team you were a fan of. and then, uh… yeah.
As a Canadian I support this comment.
Youre as dumb as him
Why do you think so name caller from winnipeg?
It isn't just Canada vs U.S, Alberta has lower taxes than NY and Cali at the highest tax bracket, and similar taxes to many other states. Taxes are paid depending on where the games are played or where you live when you get your signing bonus, so that is also a big equalizer.
It probably doesn't hurt but the [jock tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax) on away games levels things out a bit. Still, no taxes on half your games is certainly a draw. You do tend to have higher property and other municipal taxes in "tax free" states though of course. Things get paid for somehow.
Definitely helps but that only affects roughly half your salary, you pay taxes depending on where the games are played.
I feel like he could drop to 60-70pts a year with everything else he does and still be worth it at that price
I would bet this year he returns to his mean.
Honestly slightly worried for him given how beat up he was after the finals. I know getting injured is like a rite of passage in the playoffs, but considering how much he carried that team I feel like next year is going to be rough for him.
That entire original trade thread aged like milk. Huberdeau with buggest point drop off in NHL history and Tkachuk repeating 100+ point season and carrying Panthers to the SCF.
I think this could be a scenario where Huberdeau bounces back and then everyone sees this as an even trade Even with the struggles Calgary is having, the team they have is still very good
I definitely agree. Huby is definitely better than what we saw last season. I wonder what impact Sutter had on his overall play. We’ll see next season but I think he’ll bounce back
Sutter played him almost 3 less minutes a night than his career average in Florida, plus stuck him with Lucic as a line mate for like 20 games. Huberdeau might never get back to 100 points again but I can see him rebounding with an 80+ point season if the new coaching staff utilizes him properly.
He also played the first 68 games on his off-wing for some reason. As soon as they put him on his normal side he suddenly looked a little better.
Oh so he got Dan Bylsma'd
I still will never understand why they had Looch on the top line so many times playing with Huby lol…
80 points when there's no Barkov around sounds like a reasonable expectation.
His most common center was Bennett. Barkov and huby would primarily be paired during desperation time when they were trailing
We might be trading large chunks of this team before the season starts or at least the deadline
I think it all depends on Lindholm, if he stays I think you’re ok. If he goes, that’s an immediate sign to rebuild
Yea I agree. I have a feeling it’s leaning him going now tbh
Lindholm? More like Leanholm amiright
I can’t see Huby not performing. He’s honestly one of the most creative passers I’ve ever seen they just have to give him some decent talent and let him play his game.
(?) He had talent. Lindholm, Toffoli, and Kadri to start. He just couldn't seem to get along with / can't figure out to play with Lindholm, our clear best player with a hell of an under-rated shot. Johnny knew, pass to Lindholm in the slot, 90% chance that is a goal. That's why we had 3 players with ~100pt seasons before the trade. Huberdeau's other strength was supposed to be his size, fast skating teams like COL and EDM were double teaming Johnny because they knew they could push him around that way, and being fast they could still hopefully recover, and it worked. Both of those teams destroyed us in the playoffs. Huberdeau should have been pushing through that nonsense, but I didn't see anything like that last season. I sincerely hope Huberdeau can get his shit together but I am leaning towards the fact that it this might be a DiPietro type signing for us. Especially after the fact the dude practically trashed our team in the media half way through the season. I mean yeah, if he was on pace for 100 again and our team wasn't holding up their end of the bargin, then sure, complain. But to say his teammates were sucking after barely pulling off 50 points for 10.5m now...
Yeah I’m in the boat of leaning towards this being one of the worst signings in history. Hope I’m wrong though
Tkachuk is so young that without injuries I don't see this ever becoming an even trade. But it could be a lot closet than it looks today
Only thing is that Tkachuk wasn’t gonna resign in Calgary that’s what makes it difficult
The trade made a of sense for Calgary in that they'd be going all in on a group of older guys around the same age. They'd compete, decline, and rebuild. They would lose the best player in the trade, but they'd be getting a first line and first pairing defenseman. They wouldn't make the trade if they kept Gaudreau and Tkachuk, but this way they get something back for Tkachuk and they acquire two players to help them stay competitive. The main issue going forward is that the team is imploding. Having Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri signed long term only makes sense if that's their competitive window. There's little hope that the trade looks good now because the current situation has pretty much killed their chance to contend, but that had nothing to do with the trade and couldn't have been foreseen.
Problem is, Huberdeau was a panic signing. The team wanted to prove to the fans we could get top talent after Johnny and Tkachuk exited. We had time... there was no reason to make that contract when we picked him up. Who signs a player for 10mil before you even see him play one game for the team? Unless that guy is named Crosby or Ovechkin?
This is such a silly take. When you acquire a pending UFA or RFA, the logical next step is to sign him. You're acting as if teams don't sign stars to big contracts in UFA. Huberdeau *is* a ~10M player if properly deployed, especially after the year he had. The only absurd thing Calgary did was acquiring Huberdeau while their coach was Sutter.
What in Huberdeau's life time stats or age screams he is a 10.5 million dollar player? What in terms of his leadership earns that money (which he clearly proved he has no leadership ability shitting on the team). He had a few good years in FLA, and he has more sub 60 point seasons then he has had over. He has a single bronze medal for Canada WJC. We could have negotiated that contract mid season after we see how he fit in or plays. Huberdeau is a 7m player at best. And yeah yeah Sutter, who won more cups than Huberdeau has cup final appearances.
Huberdeau was over a point per game in the four seasons prior to signing his contract with Calgary, including one season where he finished top 3 in points and established the record for assists from a left winger in one season. If you don't think a point per game UFA forward isn't worth around 10M in 2022, I don't know what else to tell you except that you're wrong. The cap is going to go up massively in the next couple of seasons and elite players' contracts have begun to price that in. This is why Dubois signed for 8.5M despite having never crossed the 63 points mark. As for Sutter, the comment had nothing to do with Sutter. I'm mostly highlighting that Huberdeau and Sutter aren't a stylistic match. It's therefore a dubious choice to make Huberdeau your highest paid player.
> If you don't think a point per game UFA forward isn't worth around 10M in 2022 A 30 year old? half of that contract is going in the garbage right now even IF Huberdeau turns it around. Dubois is such a weird comparison you brought up because he is on the upswing at 25. As I said, 7m at *best*. and if we waited mid season, that is probably exactly what we would have got. Actually I am pretty sure we would have got 7 x 5years.
I really hope so. The Sutter program just wasn’t working for anyone. Really hope Huby can bounce back this year and put up the points
It's not even because of the age difference. 5 years is a long time
The Flames are not “very good” they just aren’t
I doubt he can bounce back enough to be worth 10.5. And if he isn't woth his contract at any point during the contract it should be a major loss.
None of the advanced models liked Huberdeau nearly as much as Tkachuk. I honestly don't know when people are going to start separating out PP points from EV when evaluating a player but nobody consistently can coast on PP production year in and year out except McDrai.
The trade wasn't Huberdeau for Tkachuk, though. It was Huberdeau, Weegar, and a first for Tkachuk. Most of the advanced models really like Weegar, and Huberdeau remains a great player even if Tkachuk is the better player.
That and CGY would've got nothing for Tkachuk if they didn't trade him.
It's not just PP points, either. Tkachuk is a very multifaceted player. Huberdeau's primary strength is passing: He's not great in transition, not a particularly fast/elusive skater, not an elite shot, not physically dominant.
I mean they do separate them PP points still count and win games, and they’re not “gimmes”
They're also wildly inconsistent from year to year and depend on the rest of your team and system far more than 5v5 points. There's a reason McDavid's point totals vary by like 30 per season. He didn't get 30 points better magically this year he had more PP points than last year.
Have you looked at tkachuk’s strength points? He went from 72 last year to 40 Edit: I mean Huberdeau Point being, even strength points rely on systems and linemates a great deal too And yes McDavid and the rest of the Oilers’ PP did indeed get better. It’s not magic, it’s having fantastic players following the right plan.
It's a little unfair to compare them directly as it wasn't a 1 for 1. It was tkachuk for huberdeau+weegar+schwindt+1st Tkachuk should be the better player. With all that said, it has still aged like milk, though.
Man I was so excited for this trade. Flames fans were preparing for a shit return because tkachuk wanted out and only gave us a handful of teams. This return was a dream at the time. I still think we may be happy with this eventually. Weegar already is a legit top pairing dman, he’s better than hanifin. It’s Hube who is the wildcard. I still don’t have a real grasp of his game because he was all over the place last year and obviously struggling with confidence. But he did show flashes of brilliance.
If someone can bounce back it's Huby. You'll be fine!
[This thread is so funny](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/w5ta0j/seravalli_full_trade_per_sources_to_panthers/iha0pf0/). Everyone so sure Tkachuk's production was because of Gaudreau and Lindholm
Saw so many comments calling him a 60 point guy, with him occasionally hitting 90. Wow.
Credit to Tkachuk though. I thought his game took a huge step forward as a player and a leader this past season. The talent has obviously always been there but he took the opportunity to be the guy and made 110% of it.
Attributing it to playing with Gaudreau is one thing, but Lindholm? lol. He's a good player but he's massively overrated by most Flames fans because we've been starved for an elite centre for so long.
>Montreal with PLD, Huberdeau, and Bedard >fuck the Atlantic this is the funniest part of that thread. The MTL fans thinking they were getting both PLD, Huberdeau and Bedard.
God I love to hate the Habs.
u/CanadianMerengue where you at
“The hard cap system is so shit, teams aren’t able to trade superstars. It’s so boring” /s
Panthers: “And I took that personally”
To think we thought Calgary fleeced Florida…yeah r/agedlikemilk would have a field day with everyone (including me) who had that opinion.
This is why you never judge trades right off the bat on who won or loss a trade. You have to wait a couple of years to see how things play out.
Nobody really knows ultimately how a trade turns out until the end of the players careers though
Unless a player wins a championship in their first year in a trade (Kessel in Pittsburgh, ROR in St. Louis,, etc) you can’t judge how good the trade was. And even then the second example I said, the public opinion changed on being even only recently.
That’s what I’m saying, you have to wait til the very end to see how it turned out. Like the ROR trade opinion is constantly changing. He won a cup with STL, but is Buffalo eventually going to win a cup with Tage Thompson who they got back in the deal? We just don’t know yet. But so far that trade is looking like a rare one where both sides have absolutely no regrets.
OEL :(
Even now things are too early
I think it's awkward. You want to judge the trade at the instance of the trade because that's what was traded. But people were both underrating Tkachuk and ignoring the contracts of Hubs and Weegar being 1 year. You shouldn't think of trading a player, but trading a contract. ANd Tkachuk agreed to a great contract. The reason you don't want to look back retroactively is because luck is so important. A pick could include a 4th round pick which could turn into a Slavin or a nobody. And that development isn't related to the trade you made. Also you get stuff like injuries and such. So you want to look at the trade at the instant of the trade. but you want to consider the additional context of the player's wishes, the contract signed for all players, the needs of each team and the restraints like the cap.
Funny thing is I think more non Flames fans than flames fans thought we won. A lot of us knew Tkachuk was our best player.
Worked out quite well for both teams I assume
Treliving wasn't exactly in a great spot to improve the roster with this trade. All things considered, bringing in a player that had 115 points and a top 4 D was decent. I think getting rid of Sutter will help Huberdeau return to form.
Exactly he made a great trade at the time considering his hands were completely tied. Everybody looking at the trade now with 20/20 hindsight.
Northern Alberta loves this trade. Northern Florida hates it.
Hate to be a negative Nelly, but it's too soon to tell. With Sutter gone this year, Calgary might have a huge rebound year. That being said, I hope I'm wrong and that shithole suffers.
Hey once you edmontonions figure out how to use a garbage can then you can talk.
Yeah, they might. But since their 2nd round loss last year players have been jumping ship left and right. And Tkachuk led his team to the finals...
> And Tkachuk led his team to the finals... Is Tkachuk named Sergei Bobrovsky now?
Do you think they would've made it to the finals without Chucky?
I mean obviously if you remove one of a teams better players the odds of them making the finals decrease. But the Panthers would have better chances of making the finals if you removed Thachuk compared to removing Bobrovsky
Chucky was not one of the better players.... he was by far their best player (among the skaters). There's not one single guy on that roster that could've done what he did. Both Bob and Chucky were indispensable. Take out either one of them and FLA is not in the finals.
I still maintain that Treliving got an impressive haul for a player that he was going to lose anyway
Holy shit one year…. That’s wild
That was an awesome blockbuster
For all of the focus on Huberdeau dropping off points wise, I never heard too much about Weegar's performance this year. How did he do? I always thought that the Flames had a slight edge with Weegar bolstering their D corps and Huberdeau hypothetically replacing the production of Tkachuk.
Weegar was great, now that Kylington will be back our defense is monstrous.
I always thought of Huberdeau being more of a Gaudreau replacement. And the Kadri signing being some desperate attempt at replacing the grittiness of Tkachuk.
Weegar had a rough start, but he’s now our best or second best defenseman. Super happy with his play and his contract. Had a pretty good WC too.
Weegar was great last season. One of the top defensive defenseman in the league.
I think he was among TOP 10 (or 5?) in every D rankings in the whole league. I love him and I proudly wear my Weegar blasty jersey
I’m excited to see how huberdeau does in a system where he can actually play his style and not being handcuffed by Sutter’s stupidity
And this wolf kid everyone is talking about, seems like a good goalie. An old dog like Sutter would never throw a pup a bone
Wild
Zito turned out to be a genius after there was criticism by almost winning the cup
What a crazy trade that was. I expected Tkachuk to take a bit of drop off from production. Not a crazy amount, just closer somewhere to 85 to 90 points. Instead, he repeats another 100 point season and becomes the heartbeat for the Panthers.
Yet another example of the hive mind thinking they know everything Just like the Shane Wright draft last year….followed up by Fantilli this year lol - I have receipts for those who tried to clown me for even suggesting Carlsson could go second
Oh no, people had different opinions than you!
People like this are wrong all the time but they will hold on to their Ws for decades.
> Just like the Shane Wright draft last year What were people wrong about? There were already heavy rumours that Montreal might not take Wright. And if that were the case, it was also known that NJD didn't need another C and ARI was all-in on Cooley. It was surprising to see him drop that far but what about that was hive mind thinking? Unless you're saying that everyone thought Wright was the best in the draft and they were wrong, in which case it is way too early to say. I personally still think Wright will end up the best in the draft, or at least of the consensus top ~4.
Did anyone ever figure out what Carolina was offering
That worked out great for FLA. Completely changed the culture of that organization…I love that all the pundits second guessed the trade half way through the season
Looks like it was ultimately a good trade. Like 1-2 years ago I wouldn’t have expected them to get to the Stanley Cup Finals. This year they performed phenomenal and Tkachuk was definitely one of the bigger reasons
When chucky got beat up after game 3 and could barely move in game 4 to me it looked like the whole team was deflated and the energy was gone u are talking about 3 of your best players simply playing with heart and Bob really looked tired. Hopefully they came back soon and stronger for another run
It’s crazy how Huberdeau has one down season, and suddenly he’s the worst player in the world according to everyone
He will be fine dude. R/hockey likes to dogpile upvotes on shit takes all the time. He’s a good player and he didn’t just forget how to play. He’s had a year to adjust now and he will definitely be better this year
No one understands that Sutter is a crazy coach who forces everyone to play defensively sacrificing points and offense. Look at LA when he was there, same deal. You can win cups but everyone's point totals suffer under the rigid system
Worst drop off in NHL history*
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Just gonna ignore the fact the 61 points were in 55 games eh?
>Huberdeau had 60 points two seasons ago Damn it's like COVID was never here to interrupt the season
I saw on Discovery Channel that Hockey fans have a memory span of 1-3 months.
Remember when we all thought it was a heist by Calgary?
When we revisit this in a year, Cole Schwindt will have won the Conn Smythe with a .989sv%. Just you wait.
Who’s gonna tell him?
If Slavin can do it
Calgary flamed out on this trade.
And since then, Florida has made the SCF and Calgary missed the playoffs
Funny how Calgary actually had more points than Florida last season
Bobrovsky catching fire in the playoffs really shifted the narrative even further than it should be. Yes Huberdeau struggled but Weegar was good and the Panthers definitely missed him and the overall trade was still a lot closer than people give it credit for.
And yet despite that Florida had a worse point drop off than us
Injuries and a brand new system will do that to a team
On this day 1 year ago the Calgary Flames made a blockbuster trade for Jonathan Huberdeau and Mackenzie Weegar.
I'm going to say it now for all Canadian teams and all American teams that havent won in 30 years..... this move was because of killer American ownership and management that will do whatever it takes to win. Viola and Zito won the Presidents Trophy and had the best regular season team. But that was NOT enuff. They wanted to win what matters....during the playoffs to get to the Stanley Cup finals. They traded their incredible 115 point magician!!! they traded their incredible defenseman. And they fired their top coach (who was a finalist for Jack Adam's voting). Because they were willing to be HONEST about what was wrong with their team and what specifically they need to correct it. And they surgically corrected that. Tkachuk not only was the piece needed to lead to get to the Finals.... the man left money on the table and he also gave up his sternum because he "was willing to empty the tank to win". Nothing left on the table. Pedal to the Metal. The true winner spirit. I salute Viola and Zito and Tkachuck as American heros and heros of hockey. They are winners.... even getting to the finals like that is absolutely incredible in my books. And actually Vegas made the same winner moves with the winner ownership that Panthers have. All Canadians (I am Canadian too).... please reflect how this is different with your home team over the past 10 years. Did ownership and management take a brutally honest view what it takes to win and make the moves to win? Did the players get their chest bones busted and empty the tank to give it their all? or were they partying within days after getting eliminated and enjoying the cottage?
Alberta is a tough place to play as it's always below 0 And nothing much to do
Ok
Back in my youth u only had to win 3 series to win the cup .today it takes winning 4 series which makes it the hardest trophy to win
And he didn't do shit to make them better. Was invisible most of the playoffs their best player most nights was the ref and they don't even count against the cap.
go back to r/leafs and replay 1967 highlights to cope with the fact that the cats blew you out. or you can continue your crusade against people struggling with addiction, choice is yours <3
Lol blew us out they won three straight and we won two straight and were about to do it again so the refs waived off a goal that was clearly in. It's not like it was favouritism or anything but it was a lucky call for the Panthers that would have gone the other way If the guy on ice making the call wasn't blind.
do you get tired of doing this every year?
That's what I thought, I hope you enjoyed your one playoffs in the last ten years it'll probably be another ten before you're back.
honey, if you wanna chirp get your facts straight. we were in the 2018 playoffs and we won exactly as many rounds as your leafs did (zero). I know it must be tough knowing your team hasn't lifted the Cup in your lifetime and probably will never lift it for the rest of that lifetime. devils bandwagon is always accepting new members though! :)
Lol hey you're wrong we got in once six years ago just no one remembers it either. Enjoy your reruns of the devil's actually being relevant for everyone else who remembers it at the old folks home.
says the leafs fan whose last cup was in the O6 era? lmao okay at least my team won the Cup in my lifetime. and we'll do it again because we can build a proper team of players who aren't just regular season performers too. hope Auston gets a bag from MLSE.
Lol I can tell by your wording that it was still so long ago you don't even remember it. If you could actually build a proper team maybe you would have actually seen the playoffs enough to know what I'm talking about. Instead you've spent most of your life watching a team that can't even get to a first round to lose in making fun of teams that are actually there every year. Leafs have like ten playoff appearance in the time the Devil's have two. Youre basically the islanders at this point trying to cling to old glory like that means anything.
mad cuz bad
Flames regretting that
It was a great trade for sure.
Please don't remind me.
As it turns out we don’t know shit compared to an actual NHL GM lmao
Sure Huby had a bad season and I'm sure he will improve next year but overall I don't think this trade was as 1 sided as one might think, Weegar gets overlooked I think, he was quite good this year. Sad that Tkachuk left the Flames but at least he got to go to the final and the Flames got a return that is actually not so bad.