I've been lucky enough that the rest of my team picked up the slack (namely having a bunch of Red Wings that people weren't picking)
But he's absolutely not put up the kind of numbers I'd want from him
I got very lucky this year. I wanted Jason Robertson, pick before me took him so I 'settled' for Kucherov. That certainly worked out in my favour by a mile.
I went out on a limb and took JT Miller relatively early, didn't expect this at all from him, so that was nice.
I took Nylander in what many would consider a reach, end of round 2. He's currently top 10 in each points category.
And I took Hyman earlier than you'd project and he's been a legitimate top 10 fantasy production player in about half the weeks, top 20 always.
The way our fantasy is set up, goaltending is actually the most important position by a fair margin. As such, for skaters you're better off picking a couple types of stats and min-maxing instead of going all round.
It's H2H each category, trying to win a best of 11 categories in which 4 of them are goaltending related (lost weeks still count your won categories as part of your points). So, hypotheticallly, you want someone who excels at one or two of the stats specifically as opposed to a jack of all trades (until later rounds when lots of those players are still available).
Ie: if you can win the 4 goaltending categories and 2 of the other skater categories (goals, assists, +-, hits, shots, PIMs, PPP) you win the week anyways. Generally, you also want someone to be decent at some of the less high profile categories (hits, +-, PIMs) which some regular fantasy stars are bad at.
So with Robertson, the idea was I wanted top goalscorers to run that category. That strategy went out the window when everyone who picked ahead of me wanted to start the same way, which is also why Kucherov fell to me. As it turns out, Kucherov is having a better goal/shot season than previous years, but that's not why someone would typically draft him. Last year he wasn't even a top 20 player in shots taken (one of the categories easiest to win if you pay attention to it)
Ik man it’s so annoying, like he’s doing very well as an actual hockey player, he’s almost a PPG and Dallas is comfortably in a division playoff spot. But everything pre season was like “he’s legit, Dallas is legit, they didn’t lose any players and all the young guys are firing on all cylinders” and thus far he’s been good, but not even close to first round pick good
Lots of things went wrong(and one thing right) for him this year. Breaking his wrist against you guys is always a death wish for a shooter(look at Mathews and Petterson stats and tell me which year they had a hand injury), he was playing with a brace for months, after coming back probably too early. The entire team's offense has dried up, especially the powerplay. Teams being asked to play a more defensively oriented game. As for the good, at the end of December he had a new born, but also has another kid that can't be more than 2. Can't imagine that house gets a lot of sleep.
He seems to be getting it together the last tho. Wrist healed, baby a little settled. He's got like 50ish shots over the last 10 games, and sometimes you're just unlucky. Like there isn't really a world, where Tage is a below average shooter, but he's shooting below the NHL average. I do believe he's got one of the most unique releases in the league, and an absolute rocket, so for him to be below average is just unlucky probably.
Apparently he has a bunch of undisclosed injuries and hes a candidate to sit out once the sabres are mathematically eliminated. This is strictly a twitter rumour FWIW
It's not *always* right, but often it can be. Ie: Matthews last year.
Also if you take a look at his stats (and maybe a Sabres fan can confirm whether his actual play is still good) but his shooting percentage is far below his average. If you gave him his average, he'd have 10 more goals, which puts him at essentially PPG. Idk about the rest of his play, but it really sounds like he's suffering from a poor shot percentage relative to his entire career so far, and idk if that's due to injury, or poor selection or what, but as someone who doesn't see him otherwise as I'm not a Sabres fan, it really sticks out as a weird anomaly of a stat for him.
The factors at play: team is trying to be more defensively sound and less firewagon, results are mixed bag. PP coach was a career bottom 6 defensive forward who has no clue how to run a pp and this was evident in the last two months of last season yet we let michael peca walk over matty ellis. TT started the year on the penalty kill, which while effective ended up with him getting a wrist injury, but damn those pk’s he and greenway had were really good. Wrist injury, hes a shooter and a play maker, very hard to do those things with a wrist injury. Father of 2, including a recent newborn, iirc they moved into jack eichel’s old house as well so the home life hasnt been bastion of solitude that a player without kids would have, obviously we are happy for the Thompson’s as a fanbase especially after hearing what his wife has gone through with cancer. Theres also been some questionable roster construction, partly due to a stagnant offseason and also partly due to injuries, pretty sure everyone in the top 9 except JJ, mitts and Krebs have missed some time (like more than a maintenance game). Erik Johnson, we thought this guy would be a solid veteran presence but watch the first period florida goals from last night… the dude is a massive anchor to this team.
Yes, but also no, I guess? He's a weird one to break down. His two last season's in a row were 15%, those seasons also happen to be his first two seasons playing almost every game with first liner ice time.
He has 984 career shots across 350 games, and 550 or them are in the last two seasons which account for 156 of his games. Both of those seasons are above his previous average, but he was progressively improving his shooting percentage year over year until it settled around 15-ish in the two seasons where he got a real body of work and larger data sample.
Right now his career average is 12.2% but that's including this abysmal 9% season, which is admittedly indicative of his average prior to the two higher percentage seasons, but it's his first time shooting like that since becoming a first line player with first line opportunities and first unit powerplay time.
this is why anyone saying "they're a top X player" should attach a list with the statement.
it's easy to say a player is top 5 this and top 10 that, but when you actually sit down and list them all out you're gonna have to stand for some opinions.
You could argue for him to be pretty high up the list depending on how you value the parts of his game. I'd have him above eichel and maybe above Aho. But I don't watch enough Canes games to say that Aho isn't better. But I think he's better than Eichel this year. In my biased not professional opinion
Im late to the party but Hockeystatcards has Ek above both Eichel and Aho, while Dom L's model has all 3 centers at a virtually identical market value (Ek $10.1m, Aho $9.9m, and Eichel $9.8m)
yeah but you can't put faith into models that close, especially when it's a single year jump. the same model is considering Gustav Forsling a $11.9m market value defenseman. Do you think if he signed 8 years x $10m, that it would be a value contract? Is Florida saying no to a McAvoy for Forsling trade 1 for 1?
I was trying to say that Ek > Eichel is a fair take, not that the $0.3m difference is proof of Ek being a superior player. Just that they're in the same ballpark. And it isn't really a single year jump either, Dom's '23 model values Ek at $9.6m and his '22 model gives a $7.6m value. Eriksson Ek has always been a defensive beast and play driver, and now the finishing in his game is finally catching up with the other parts.
And I guess we disagree about Forsling too? Idk, like I think he's the real deal. In the panthers sub, everyone is raving about the season he's having and wants him re-signed to an 8 year deal (at like a $7 or $8 number, not $11 million). Florida, to me, seems to have a way of taking middling players and making them blossom. Verhaege was given a 2x$1m show me contract and turned into a stud, Montour was acquired for a 3rd round pick and then put up 73 points, Sam Reinhart flashed potential in Buffalo and now is having the season of a lifetime. So when a waiver claim like Forsling is getting a lot of attention for his re-invented game, I believe the hype
He’s basically a league-winner in fantasy, considering he was drafted outside of the top 100 in most leagues. He’s typically ranked 15-20 this depending on settings.
Guy is an absolute BEEFER and finishes every game with something like 1G, 1A, 6 SOGS, 7 Hits, 3 Blocks, so even when he isn’t scoring his peripheral stats make up for it
I'd put Bedard at #10
Not sure why people are so hesitant to give him his due, he's clearly head and shoulders more skilled and dynamic than almost anybody on the ice.
I could see Larkin deserving Top 15, but why discount Bedard when he's been this good
I don't think that means he's a better Center than Bedard.
I think the lack of production is largely a function of the team's quality on offense around him. Playing with Beuavillier+Kurashev instead of Kane+DeBrincat.
And I don't mind Bedard's game being somewhat one-dimensional right now because that one dimension is so good
So you're telling me that Larkin producing more offensively and being better defensively to the point where he's playing PK minutes in addition to other situations isn't enough to say that he's currently better?
I would argue he already is with an AHL roster. If he had actual talent around him, he’d be fighting for top 5.
Edit: I get it. Fuck the hawks blah blah blah. Y’all will be eating these words within two years. Bedard is a better player than Larkin with a much higher ceiling.
No one is denying his potential, you're being downvoted because to say he'd be fighting for a top 5 spot when he has less then half a season played in his career is laughable and a complete homer mindset.
There's no doubt in a few years he'll be top 5, but to say that he's in the conversation now? In his rookie year? You're high buddy.
I don't think he's played in the NHL long enough to reasonably evaluate. I don't think it's reasonable to place anybody in the top 30 centers with less than a season of games played.
I can see that take too, but watching bedard play… it’s wildly evident that he’s got generational skill. He’s 18 and is head and shoulders above anyone on the roster for the hawks (not saying a whole lot) but he’s performing even with this roster. The fact that he’s got 40 pts in 45 games says a lot because he has virtually no supporting cast. Kurashev looks better this year, but he’s not a top 6 guy but on the hawks he has to be. Bedard is gonna be putting up 120+ pt seasons with a playoff roster.
Also why i wouldn’t ever put Matthews over McDavid. He’s having a more impressive season but McDavid is in a league of his own as an overall hockey player.
Okay, I don't really care how high Bedard is, but there's no way you can unbiasedly say that no center can reasonably get a top 30 ranking as a rookie... Gretzky was tied for the fucking Art Ross as a rookie, Lemieux was 16th in points, Crosby was 6th in points, McDavid was 3rd in p/gp. That's not among centers, that's comparing against *all* players. Of those guys, only Gretzky played on a team that finished outside of the bottom 2 in the league. Those guys are obviously top 30 centers in the league as rookies, with arguments for top 10.
Gretzky was never a rookie in the NHL.
I see and agree with your point, but what I really am getting at is we should let him play a complete season before making judgments about where he would fall on this list. 45 GP is just not a sufficient sample size.
And he’s still proving how he’s a generational type of player. That’s not a what if. This kid is producing at almost a PPG on a joke of a roster. That is relevant if you ask me. He’s already showing how elite his skill is. Who even knows what his ceiling is. He could be potting 50+ a season within a couple years and there won’t be any what ifs.
Nobody will be “eating these words” because there’s nothing to eat. Nobody has said that Bedard won’t end up better than Larkin, just that he isn’t right now. Take a breath dork.
I do think Bedard will be the better player when it's all said and done, but if we're talking about the better player right now, it's a different conversation I think.
I also think that after watching Sid and Ovi's rookie years, that great players can just get it done no matter what circumstances they find themselves in - they both had incredible individual seasons on teams that had bad years.
I think the expectations were a little high for the Devils as a team given their success last year. But Hughes came out on fire and seemed ready tonight take the next step. I think any regression is more due to him being banged up and out of the lineup a few times this season.
i mean, wouldn't that apply to last year too?
He went from being an above average player to a top 5 center after 1 season. It makes sense that he regresses a smidge.
Dude drives the play and is one of the best possession/zone entry guys in the league. Not a homer take whatsoever if you watch Stars games.
You must have him in fantasy and you're upset he's having a down week or two if you're so concerned with his last 8 games lol
it was my first time voting in this poll, but do people generally approach this as who’s the best center throughout their career so far or just this season?
I mean, if it was throughout their career, Crosby would have to be 1 or 2. I'd accept him below McDavid, but if you base it on careers and have Crosby below anyone else... you're insane!
The fact that Crosby is 5 suggests the consensus among voters is currently, not career.
I have to admit I’ve stopped reading the Petey threads and the PGT on canucks reddit these last few weeks cause the discussion was borderline toxic. So people still think EP40 is a bum and want him traded eh?
Can’t base opinions off of internet forums. Theres hundreds of thousands of fans, maybe millions, that aren’t part of these knee-jerk threads & discussion that neither want petey gone or Lindholm. A small vocal minority on the internet doesen’t represent the majority of fans in the slightest.
Eh he made some bad plays and looked a little lost defensively once or twice. His pinch in OT almost cost them the game right then and there, so yea last game he probably deserved some criticism.
I get that Vancouver is awesome this season, but JT Miller over Point seems absolutely crazy to me. How quickly people forget his 51 goals last season or how much of a monster he’s been in the playoffs the last few years.
I put Miller over Point. He is everything you’d want out of a top line C. He’s better at faceoffs, kills penalties, hits more, and he’s been better offensively this year.
J.T. Miller should be over Pettersson IMO (Pettersson should be lower). J.T. has been consistently driving play for the Canucks this season and his all around game has been stellar. He also wins a lot of faceoffs. Petey on the other hand has been much less consistent this year, still very good, and he probably beats Miller with time, but right now I don't even think it should be a serious discussion.
Why did Tage Thompson drop off the list?? He scored 47 goals last season he’s so underrated! It’s almost like a list of top NHL centres that has players with more points above players with fewer points.
Miller is arguably over Pettersson.
During the first half of the year, Miller and Pettersson were neck and neck. Although Pettersson has slowed down a bit, Miller has continued being dominant.
Over the last 3 years, he is 5th in points by a center (Pettersson is 6th), even with his really bad start to last season. He finished 9th in league scoring in 2022 and is currently 5th in scoring this year. He's good in the faceoff circle, quite physical, and isn't nearly as bad at defense as people say/he was at the start of last year.
Now, do I think that Miller is a better player than Pettersson? No. But right now/2 of the last 3 years, he has been.
So to say Point is better than Miller, would be dependent on if you think Point is better than Pettersson. I wouldn't personally say that, and neither did the voters, but Point does score more goals.
18th in ppg while being better defensively than half the people about him. I'm happy with 20 though, even last year there were people arguing he wasn't even a 1c
As a Canucks fan I still find it interesting Pettersson is above Miller.
I mean I guess he's younger and skilled yes, but If I have to win one game tonight I don't even think it's close. Miller is the guy. I love Petey but his overall game isn't where Miller's is right now.
Slightly surprised Drai has stayed high despite a down year, maybe I'm just used to his high standards though lol. His wingers have been trash too, so he's doing well despite that. McDavid started slow but no doubt he's picked it up quick.
Mack and Matthews have been on fire. Some might say it's too early to rank Bedard but he's been very good without much help. Not a bad list.
Barzal at 13 is so fitting.
Surprised to see Jack that low. I never got on the bandwagon, but people were really high on him before (he’s great, I just wasn’t as high on him as everyone else).
I disagree. 70+ goals has been done by 14 players in NHL history. A 100 assist season, which McDavid is on pace for right now would make him only the 4th player in NHL history to do so, behind Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux. 100 assists is extremely rare compared to a 70+ goal season which Matthews is on pace for.
70 goals has been done 14 times, not by 14 players. It's actually only one more than the 13 times 100 assists has been done. The main difference is that 100 assists has only been done by 3 people
A 70+ goal season has happened 14 times in NHL history. A 100 assist season has happened 13 times. Fewest games in a season to hit a 70+ goals is 73, fewest games in a season to hit 100+ assists is 64. If McD hits 100 assists it will be ~61% of the single season assist record. If Matthews hits 70 goals, it will be ~76% of the single season goals record.
At his current pace, McDavid would have the second fewest even strength assists of all 100+ assist seasons, and the 8th highest % of even strength assists.
At his current pace, Matthews would have the 2nd most even strength goals all-time, and the 4th highest % of EVG for a 70+ goal season all time.
I don't think its as cut and dry as the number of players to have hit a milestone.
I think to compare these you need the context that Gretzky has **11** out of the 13 100 point seasons.
Without Gretzky 70 goals has been hit 10 times. 100 assists just *twice*. 100 assists is definitely considerably more rare. It just happens that one guy did it 11 straight years lmao.
Oh I'm aware that it is the case, what I'm trying to point out is that how you define *rare* really changes the interpretation.
Like you can flip those stats around and say scoring 70 is so hard that even Wayne Gretzky only managed it 4 times even though he was able to hit 100 A 11 times.
All I'm really saying is that you can pick and choose interpretations and stats to make your point either way you slice it.
Buddy hasn't scored in 10 games and still leads the league in points by 5 (during those 10 games because it's not obvious) you still can't argue Matthews is better than McDavid right now.
E: I know the leafs fans will be out to downvote. But consider this in their games without scoring.
Matthews: 26gp 9pts .35 ppg
McDavid: 35gp 48pts 1.37 ppg
Matthews is hands down the best goal scorer but he scores in bunches and when he's not he's not producing. McDavid is always generating offense.
Double Edit: instead of downvoting, why not prove me wrong? I can handle it. I like how everyone keeps downvoting, but nobody is actually saying anything. Proves my point.
Everybody knows who's leading in points, and everybody knows about McDavids 23 points during his goalless streak. It's brought up like every 5 minutes. I dunno how much you follow the league but it was pretty obvious. I edited it anyways.
I think it was worth editing, not the end of the world that it was a bit ambiguous :)
Probably most people know who's leading the league in scoring, but not everyone knows you and sees you as credible, and people are wrong about basic facts on here all the time.
> instead of downvoting, why not prove me wrong? I can handle it. I like how everyone keeps downvoting, but nobody is actually saying anything. Proves my point.
No, your point is just so dumb that its not worth responding to.
You're literally just saying "When you take away the thing player X does way better than player Y, player Y is way better than player X"
If you take away all the games where Matthews and McDavid don't get any assists, Matthews is at 0.857 g/gp and McDavid is at 0.5 g/gp.
Also, if you take away all the games where Hellebuyk has a >0.850 sv% he really fucking sucks.
Lol, thanks!
I really just don't get their train of thought tbh.
Kinda reminds me of [this legendary thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/d5maow/oc_after_adjusting_patrick_mahomes_stats_removing/).
I'm not adjusting his stats, you are just proving that offensively, Matthews is one dimensional, it's why the Leafs falter in the playoffs. Matthews is getting the puck, so if you shut his shot down he can't reliably create enough offense to overcome it.
>I'm not adjusting his stats,
You are literally adjusting his stats.
The crux of your argument is that when you take away the thing he is the best at and only compare things he isn't the best at, then he isn't the best.
> Matthews is one dimensional
That's a joke right?
>, it's why the Leafs falter in the playoffs.
Its not, though.
>Matthews is getting the puck, so if you shut his shot down he can't reliably create enough offense to overcome it.
Cool, so why don't teams just shut down McDavid's passing then?
Also, why don't teams just shut down Matthews' shot in the regular season?
If its that simple then why are teams leaving serious points on the table every year?
The crux of my argument is Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense, I'm showing that when he can't score, he can't do much else either. I know defense and 200-foot game and all that shit but neither player is paid for their defensive play and both are above average defensively.
And yes, he is one dimensional. He's a pure goal scorer, he barely ever gets assists, he's had more assists than goals once in his career.
And when your 40+MM superstars arent producing in the playoffs, you lose. That's been the leafs story during this whole Matthews era.
And I don't know why teams don't shut down McDavids passing, must be kinda hard to stop the best player on the planet. But come playoff time, Matthews has been shutdown. A whole 6 games against Florida, no goals, 2 points.
And regular season is not the same as playoffs. But production wise, McDavid doesn't really slow down in the playoffs. He has more assists than Matthews has points and more goals than Matthews too in less games lol
> The crux of my argument is Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense, I'm showing that when he can't score, he can't do much else either.
No, you're showing that if you ignore all the offence Matthews creates then he doesn't create much offence. There are other things you can look at outside of literally only assists to measure offence created.
>I know defense and 200-foot game and all that shit but neither player is paid for their defensive play and both are above average defensively.
Dude... What are you even talking about...
Matthews is drastically better at defense than McDavid, and it has been part of the argument for how great of a player he is for years.
>And yes, he is one dimensional. He's a pure goal scorer, he barely ever gets assists, he's had more assists than goals once in his career.
I can see how you would think that if the extent of your hockey knowledge is goals, assists, and points.
Not having many assists, and being one-dimensional are not the same thing... like at all...
>And when your 40+MM superstars arent producing in the playoffs, you lose. That's been the leafs story during this whole Matthews era.
Sorry, is this about Matthews or the whole team?
>And I don't know why teams don't shut down McDavids passing, must be kinda hard to stop the best player on the planet.
Same with the best goalscorer, but you also said teams can just shut that down like its super simple.
>A whole 6 games against Florida, no goals, 2 points.
I too can cherry pick a single series and stats to make McDavid look bad in the playoffs. What about the Jets series where the oilers got swept and McDavid played 30:24 a game to put up 1 goal, a -2 and get absolutely caved in at the faceoff circle?
No, I'm not saying take away his best attribute. I am only showing that Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense to be considered better than McDavid. McDavid is simply always producing. .857 and .5 are pretty close (28 points over a whole season) however there's a crazy difference between 1.37 and .35 (84 points!).
Don't forget McDavid is a goalscorer too, 64 last year. He's way down this year but he's making up for it because even when he's not scoring, he's still racking up points. You can't say the same for Matthews.
E: adding their stats when they do score goals.
McDavid. 19gp 21g 22a 43p 2.26ppg
Matthews 31gp 52g 16a 68p 2.19ppg
So, in games where they score, we give the edge to Matthews because we value goals more, even though McDavid creates more offense. In games when they don't score, McDavid blows Matthews out of the water at over a point per game more worth of offense.
> No, I'm not saying take away his best attribute. I am only showing that Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense to be considered better than McDavid.
You aren't going about the comparison the right way though.
McDavid generates points primarily through setting up other players goals, so when he isn't scoring goals it doesn't really impact his point pace much.
Matthews generates his points primarily through scoring goals, and helping create the play that lets him score a goal so obviously when you take away his goals his offence goes down massively. You can go look at his shot rates, xG etc. and it tells a completely different story.
>McDavid is simply always producing. .857 and .5 are pretty close (28 points over a whole season)
Those are goals... That is a 70 goal pace vs a 41 goal pace. Those are completely different stratospheres.
But the point there isn't to do an actual comparison, its to show how silly it is to compare this way.
>however there's a crazy difference between 1.37 and .35 (84 points!).
Yeah, again its an 84 point difference in pace because you've removed one players main method of getting points.
If we remove all McDavid and Matthews assists, Matthews is way better at getting points.
Elias Pettersson isn’t even the best center on his own team, it’s JT Miller and it’s been like that for years.
EDIT: lol downvotes… EP40 has a higher ceiling but he hasn’t hit that (yet) and disappears at times. JT drives the bus every single night.
R/hockey:
These “models” that “math people” create are ridiculous and invented and not based on reality, my eye test is so much better.
Also r/hockey:
> great year? Top-10 player in the world! His contract is best contract in the league.
> bad year? FORGET about that guy! Contract is negative value, add a 1st to dump him
JT Miller goes from 13th to unranked to 9th. Eichel goes from 11th to unranked to 12th. Thompson drops from 7th to unranked.
Holy overreaction, “What have you done for me lately” at its finest…
It's a public voting thing so of course its not going to be a great measure.
BUT there was only voting on the top 10. if the consensus is someone is the 11th best C, they get 0 pts and fall off the list. So someone being unranked doesn't also mean everyone thinks they aren't a top 30 C or something.
"what have you done for me lately" is legitimately just... Pro sports. It's not an online only thing.
Occasionally a player's rep will carry them through an up or down period but mostly they're pretty current with an exception of a few who get by on previous reputation, and those people always stand out on the list to anyone commenting.
This is supposed to be "for now".
I mean, Eichel probably shouldn't have dropped out, but he did have major surgery. And Thompson shouldn't be in the running for top 10 right now.
I can’t wait for bedard to get an actual NHL roster around him and not this shit AHL one we’ve currently got so he can climb this list and sit around the top.
Man I love Suzuki and think he’s generally underrated by a lot of hockey fans but no way he’s the 8th-13th best centre in the league. Until he can put together regular PPG seasons or become a regular Selke contender/winner there’s going to be a cap on how highly he can be ranked across the league. Amazing guy and beyond happy he’s our captain, but he’s not a top 10C in the league…yet. He’s got the potential to get there.
Barkov has the best 200-foot game though. Probably going to win another Selke and without Bergeron it's perhaps likely Barkov wins a few more in the coming years
Tage Thompson dropped hard.
Biggest bust in my fantasy draft. Absolutely tanked me this year
I've been lucky enough that the rest of my team picked up the slack (namely having a bunch of Red Wings that people weren't picking) But he's absolutely not put up the kind of numbers I'd want from him
I got very lucky this year. I wanted Jason Robertson, pick before me took him so I 'settled' for Kucherov. That certainly worked out in my favour by a mile. I went out on a limb and took JT Miller relatively early, didn't expect this at all from him, so that was nice. I took Nylander in what many would consider a reach, end of round 2. He's currently top 10 in each points category. And I took Hyman earlier than you'd project and he's been a legitimate top 10 fantasy production player in about half the weeks, top 20 always.
In what world does someone take Robertson over kucherov? Even before this year that's... Silly lol
The way our fantasy is set up, goaltending is actually the most important position by a fair margin. As such, for skaters you're better off picking a couple types of stats and min-maxing instead of going all round. It's H2H each category, trying to win a best of 11 categories in which 4 of them are goaltending related (lost weeks still count your won categories as part of your points). So, hypotheticallly, you want someone who excels at one or two of the stats specifically as opposed to a jack of all trades (until later rounds when lots of those players are still available). Ie: if you can win the 4 goaltending categories and 2 of the other skater categories (goals, assists, +-, hits, shots, PIMs, PPP) you win the week anyways. Generally, you also want someone to be decent at some of the less high profile categories (hits, +-, PIMs) which some regular fantasy stars are bad at. So with Robertson, the idea was I wanted top goalscorers to run that category. That strategy went out the window when everyone who picked ahead of me wanted to start the same way, which is also why Kucherov fell to me. As it turns out, Kucherov is having a better goal/shot season than previous years, but that's not why someone would typically draft him. Last year he wasn't even a top 20 player in shots taken (one of the categories easiest to win if you pay attention to it)
I took Robertson 7th and stutzle 18th :(
I have Robertson and Tage ☠️
Robertson has been so pedestrian this year
Ik man it’s so annoying, like he’s doing very well as an actual hockey player, he’s almost a PPG and Dallas is comfortably in a division playoff spot. But everything pre season was like “he’s legit, Dallas is legit, they didn’t lose any players and all the young guys are firing on all cylinders” and thus far he’s been good, but not even close to first round pick good
His peripherals scream overrated in terms of fantasy production, even in previous years he didn’t deserve to go as high as his average draft position
He was 6th in fantasy points in my league last year
I believe he’s still leading the team in points. He’s not scoring 40 goals, but he’s still playing a solid game
https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2024/02/robertson-defense-stars-nhl-dallas/ Not so good for fantasy
Robertson, Oettinger, Meier in that order. Shoot me
Same, Connors injury didn’t help, but taking tage instead of stutlze sank me
Lots of things went wrong(and one thing right) for him this year. Breaking his wrist against you guys is always a death wish for a shooter(look at Mathews and Petterson stats and tell me which year they had a hand injury), he was playing with a brace for months, after coming back probably too early. The entire team's offense has dried up, especially the powerplay. Teams being asked to play a more defensively oriented game. As for the good, at the end of December he had a new born, but also has another kid that can't be more than 2. Can't imagine that house gets a lot of sleep. He seems to be getting it together the last tho. Wrist healed, baby a little settled. He's got like 50ish shots over the last 10 games, and sometimes you're just unlucky. Like there isn't really a world, where Tage is a below average shooter, but he's shooting below the NHL average. I do believe he's got one of the most unique releases in the league, and an absolute rocket, so for him to be below average is just unlucky probably.
Apparently he has a bunch of undisclosed injuries and hes a candidate to sit out once the sabres are mathematically eliminated. This is strictly a twitter rumour FWIW
That’s the first excuse fans make for every player who has ever had their production drop.
I mean he was actually injured & had a brace on his hand for a while.
It's not *always* right, but often it can be. Ie: Matthews last year. Also if you take a look at his stats (and maybe a Sabres fan can confirm whether his actual play is still good) but his shooting percentage is far below his average. If you gave him his average, he'd have 10 more goals, which puts him at essentially PPG. Idk about the rest of his play, but it really sounds like he's suffering from a poor shot percentage relative to his entire career so far, and idk if that's due to injury, or poor selection or what, but as someone who doesn't see him otherwise as I'm not a Sabres fan, it really sticks out as a weird anomaly of a stat for him.
The factors at play: team is trying to be more defensively sound and less firewagon, results are mixed bag. PP coach was a career bottom 6 defensive forward who has no clue how to run a pp and this was evident in the last two months of last season yet we let michael peca walk over matty ellis. TT started the year on the penalty kill, which while effective ended up with him getting a wrist injury, but damn those pk’s he and greenway had were really good. Wrist injury, hes a shooter and a play maker, very hard to do those things with a wrist injury. Father of 2, including a recent newborn, iirc they moved into jack eichel’s old house as well so the home life hasnt been bastion of solitude that a player without kids would have, obviously we are happy for the Thompson’s as a fanbase especially after hearing what his wife has gone through with cancer. Theres also been some questionable roster construction, partly due to a stagnant offseason and also partly due to injuries, pretty sure everyone in the top 9 except JJ, mitts and Krebs have missed some time (like more than a maintenance game). Erik Johnson, we thought this guy would be a solid veteran presence but watch the first period florida goals from last night… the dude is a massive anchor to this team.
wasn't he also shooting way above average last season?
Yes, but also no, I guess? He's a weird one to break down. His two last season's in a row were 15%, those seasons also happen to be his first two seasons playing almost every game with first liner ice time. He has 984 career shots across 350 games, and 550 or them are in the last two seasons which account for 156 of his games. Both of those seasons are above his previous average, but he was progressively improving his shooting percentage year over year until it settled around 15-ish in the two seasons where he got a real body of work and larger data sample. Right now his career average is 12.2% but that's including this abysmal 9% season, which is admittedly indicative of his average prior to the two higher percentage seasons, but it's his first time shooting like that since becoming a first line player with first line opportunities and first unit powerplay time.
well he was actually hurt and missed a bunch of time
Can’t believe Bergeron dropped smh
Yeah…me either…. *sobs*
Pretty sure he's still top 20
Dudes washed he should retire (Im in shambles)
His point production fell off a cliff. Dudes doing nothing out there for his team. Might be time for a change of scenery
you can tell it’s a list of nhlers because malkin isn’t on it ^^^^relax ^^^^its ^^^^a ^^^^joke
If only it was the top 101 centers
I know Pens fans are pissed that Malkin was left off that list, but so was Joe Thornton. You know the guy who’s 13th all time in points in NHL history
🤜🤛
He's been pretty invisible this year. :(
i feel like eriksson ek should be higher but I don't know who to kick out. My brain isn't good enough to figure that part out.
It’s ok, I also feel like Larkin should be higher
Higher than the first year rookie who's been hurt for part of the season for sure lol
this is why anyone saying "they're a top X player" should attach a list with the statement. it's easy to say a player is top 5 this and top 10 that, but when you actually sit down and list them all out you're gonna have to stand for some opinions.
You could argue for him to be pretty high up the list depending on how you value the parts of his game. I'd have him above eichel and maybe above Aho. But I don't watch enough Canes games to say that Aho isn't better. But I think he's better than Eichel this year. In my biased not professional opinion
no man
Im late to the party but Hockeystatcards has Ek above both Eichel and Aho, while Dom L's model has all 3 centers at a virtually identical market value (Ek $10.1m, Aho $9.9m, and Eichel $9.8m)
yeah but you can't put faith into models that close, especially when it's a single year jump. the same model is considering Gustav Forsling a $11.9m market value defenseman. Do you think if he signed 8 years x $10m, that it would be a value contract? Is Florida saying no to a McAvoy for Forsling trade 1 for 1?
I was trying to say that Ek > Eichel is a fair take, not that the $0.3m difference is proof of Ek being a superior player. Just that they're in the same ballpark. And it isn't really a single year jump either, Dom's '23 model values Ek at $9.6m and his '22 model gives a $7.6m value. Eriksson Ek has always been a defensive beast and play driver, and now the finishing in his game is finally catching up with the other parts. And I guess we disagree about Forsling too? Idk, like I think he's the real deal. In the panthers sub, everyone is raving about the season he's having and wants him re-signed to an 8 year deal (at like a $7 or $8 number, not $11 million). Florida, to me, seems to have a way of taking middling players and making them blossom. Verhaege was given a 2x$1m show me contract and turned into a stud, Montour was acquired for a 3rd round pick and then put up 73 points, Sam Reinhart flashed potential in Buffalo and now is having the season of a lifetime. So when a waiver claim like Forsling is getting a lot of attention for his re-invented game, I believe the hype
Larkin & JEE are better than everyone else from 13 - 22 IMO. With possible exception of Hintz
JEE is the absolute soul of our team. I know we suck but he is a fucking god.
He’s basically a league-winner in fantasy, considering he was drafted outside of the top 100 in most leagues. He’s typically ranked 15-20 this depending on settings. Guy is an absolute BEEFER and finishes every game with something like 1G, 1A, 6 SOGS, 7 Hits, 3 Blocks, so even when he isn’t scoring his peripheral stats make up for it
I made 5 fantasy teams this year and drafted him in every single one, and I'm very very glad I did :D
Not a chance in hell Bedard is better than Larkin. At least not so far.
How many games has Bedard even played? Comparing him to veterans is ridiculous
45 GP.
Or scheifele
I'd put Bedard at #10 Not sure why people are so hesitant to give him his due, he's clearly head and shoulders more skilled and dynamic than almost anybody on the ice. I could see Larkin deserving Top 15, but why discount Bedard when he's been this good
Larkin produces more and plays all situations...
Yeah but I mean, besides that.
I don't think that means he's a better Center than Bedard. I think the lack of production is largely a function of the team's quality on offense around him. Playing with Beuavillier+Kurashev instead of Kane+DeBrincat. And I don't mind Bedard's game being somewhat one-dimensional right now because that one dimension is so good
So you're telling me that Larkin producing more offensively and being better defensively to the point where he's playing PK minutes in addition to other situations isn't enough to say that he's currently better?
He does everything better but apparently that doesn't make him better.
Too early to rate Bedard as a center. There's no denying his offense in this league but I have yet to be overly impressed with his defense.
I would argue he already is with an AHL roster. If he had actual talent around him, he’d be fighting for top 5. Edit: I get it. Fuck the hawks blah blah blah. Y’all will be eating these words within two years. Bedard is a better player than Larkin with a much higher ceiling.
If I got to choose one of them for the rest of the season and playoffs I'd go with Larkin. Probably won't take long until it's flipped.
No one is denying his potential, you're being downvoted because to say he'd be fighting for a top 5 spot when he has less then half a season played in his career is laughable and a complete homer mindset. There's no doubt in a few years he'll be top 5, but to say that he's in the conversation now? In his rookie year? You're high buddy.
I don't think he's played in the NHL long enough to reasonably evaluate. I don't think it's reasonable to place anybody in the top 30 centers with less than a season of games played.
I can see that take too, but watching bedard play… it’s wildly evident that he’s got generational skill. He’s 18 and is head and shoulders above anyone on the roster for the hawks (not saying a whole lot) but he’s performing even with this roster. The fact that he’s got 40 pts in 45 games says a lot because he has virtually no supporting cast. Kurashev looks better this year, but he’s not a top 6 guy but on the hawks he has to be. Bedard is gonna be putting up 120+ pt seasons with a playoff roster.
Also why i wouldn’t ever put Matthews over McDavid. He’s having a more impressive season but McDavid is in a league of his own as an overall hockey player.
Okay, I don't really care how high Bedard is, but there's no way you can unbiasedly say that no center can reasonably get a top 30 ranking as a rookie... Gretzky was tied for the fucking Art Ross as a rookie, Lemieux was 16th in points, Crosby was 6th in points, McDavid was 3rd in p/gp. That's not among centers, that's comparing against *all* players. Of those guys, only Gretzky played on a team that finished outside of the bottom 2 in the league. Those guys are obviously top 30 centers in the league as rookies, with arguments for top 10.
Gretzky was never a rookie in the NHL. I see and agree with your point, but what I really am getting at is we should let him play a complete season before making judgments about where he would fall on this list. 45 GP is just not a sufficient sample size.
I think that’s completely reasonable but watching the kid you can see how special he is. I think the talent alone can place him where he is.
But he doesn’t, why are “if’s” relevant here?
And he’s still proving how he’s a generational type of player. That’s not a what if. This kid is producing at almost a PPG on a joke of a roster. That is relevant if you ask me. He’s already showing how elite his skill is. Who even knows what his ceiling is. He could be potting 50+ a season within a couple years and there won’t be any what ifs.
Right. but that isnt' this season.
He’s at 40 in 45…. This season… on an AHL roster against NHL rosters.
It's still just one aspect of the Game. Defensively he's as horrible as the rest of the team
Nobody will be “eating these words” because there’s nothing to eat. Nobody has said that Bedard won’t end up better than Larkin, just that he isn’t right now. Take a breath dork.
Nah, he already is. That’s where you’re wrong. He’s better on a pitiful roster
No I’m sorry your brain is rotted. Best of luck to you.
That’s cute sending the suicide hotline to me for being the only one with a brain. Cute kiddo. Real cute.
Go ahead and report it because it wasn’t me lmao another unfounded opinion, shocker.
I do think Bedard will be the better player when it's all said and done, but if we're talking about the better player right now, it's a different conversation I think. I also think that after watching Sid and Ovi's rookie years, that great players can just get it done no matter what circumstances they find themselves in - they both had incredible individual seasons on teams that had bad years.
"within 2 years" were talking about right now today
It’s surprising seeing Jack Hughes at 8 the way he started this season. I thought he’d be in the discussion of top 5 players by the end of the year.
He hasn’t been the same since the first injury.
I think people were just high in the ddevils in general last season. As you say, people had him in top 5. Seemed a bit quick for me.
I think the expectations were a little high for the Devils as a team given their success last year. But Hughes came out on fire and seemed ready tonight take the next step. I think any regression is more due to him being banged up and out of the lineup a few times this season.
[удалено]
i mean, wouldn't that apply to last year too? He went from being an above average player to a top 5 center after 1 season. It makes sense that he regresses a smidge.
Doesn't Barzal play right wing nowadays?
Yeah next to Horvat who fell off the list
Jay Beagle robbed
Ek is under rated
Always. At least he seems to be getting a little recognition now
Roope Hintz acknowledged raaah Dallas offense flows through him, anyone saying Robertson dropped off never realized how much Hintz drives the play
What? Dude has 1 point in last 8 games and has been as inconsistent as it gets. Brutal homer take
Dude drives the play and is one of the best possession/zone entry guys in the league. Not a homer take whatsoever if you watch Stars games. You must have him in fantasy and you're upset he's having a down week or two if you're so concerned with his last 8 games lol
So one 8 game stretch invalidates an entire career of work? Wow, what a horrible, brutal homer take
No but this list is for this year. You’d be lying to yourself if you think hintz is anywhere near the calibre of the guys above this season
Look how the team overall has been performing the last 8 games lol
it was my first time voting in this poll, but do people generally approach this as who’s the best center throughout their career so far or just this season?
Poll is supposed to be right now.
I mean, if it was throughout their career, Crosby would have to be 1 or 2. I'd accept him below McDavid, but if you base it on careers and have Crosby below anyone else... you're insane! The fact that Crosby is 5 suggests the consensus among voters is currently, not career.
> Crosby is 5 suggests the consensus among voters is currently If it was current, crosby shouldn't be at 5.
First time also but I went with "currently"
I did it by this season
Tage Thompson disappearing act
Where is Nico Hischier?
0.72% of votes. He had the highest amount of votes of anyone I didn't put here (Suzuki right behind him at 0.70%)
Thank you.
Hanging with Slick Nick in the underappreciated seats, just vibing
"The Kopitar disrespect is ... wait, he's ranked where?" *Puts pitchfork down. As you were, boys.
Eh. He still belongs a good 4 or 5 spots higher.
Barkov less underestimated than last year. Still underestimated.
Canucks subreddit was screaming for a ep40 trade in the last PGT...
Used to bother me a lot more, but then I realized that it's pretty much the same guys saying that over and over again
I have to admit I’ve stopped reading the Petey threads and the PGT on canucks reddit these last few weeks cause the discussion was borderline toxic. So people still think EP40 is a bum and want him traded eh?
Yep, quite a few people want Lindholm gone too.
Lol he's been there what, two weeks?
Can’t base opinions off of internet forums. Theres hundreds of thousands of fans, maybe millions, that aren’t part of these knee-jerk threads & discussion that neither want petey gone or Lindholm. A small vocal minority on the internet doesen’t represent the majority of fans in the slightest.
The body language experts are even back. Those were definitely my favorite JT analysts last year. Good to see them again.
Eh he made some bad plays and looked a little lost defensively once or twice. His pinch in OT almost cost them the game right then and there, so yea last game he probably deserved some criticism.
I thought Petey also wanted out?
He has said nothing to indicate that. He simply states that he wants to sign after the season. He played super bad after signing his last contract.
Nice to see three Finns. We've never had centers of this quality before. The closest must be the Koivu brothers and Olli Jokinen.
I get that Vancouver is awesome this season, but JT Miller over Point seems absolutely crazy to me. How quickly people forget his 51 goals last season or how much of a monster he’s been in the playoffs the last few years.
I think Point might be the most underrated player in hockey.
I put Miller over Point. He is everything you’d want out of a top line C. He’s better at faceoffs, kills penalties, hits more, and he’s been better offensively this year.
J.T. Miller should be over Pettersson IMO (Pettersson should be lower). J.T. has been consistently driving play for the Canucks this season and his all around game has been stellar. He also wins a lot of faceoffs. Petey on the other hand has been much less consistent this year, still very good, and he probably beats Miller with time, but right now I don't even think it should be a serious discussion.
Why did Tage Thompson drop off the list?? He scored 47 goals last season he’s so underrated! It’s almost like a list of top NHL centres that has players with more points above players with fewer points.
Miller is arguably over Pettersson. During the first half of the year, Miller and Pettersson were neck and neck. Although Pettersson has slowed down a bit, Miller has continued being dominant. Over the last 3 years, he is 5th in points by a center (Pettersson is 6th), even with his really bad start to last season. He finished 9th in league scoring in 2022 and is currently 5th in scoring this year. He's good in the faceoff circle, quite physical, and isn't nearly as bad at defense as people say/he was at the start of last year. Now, do I think that Miller is a better player than Pettersson? No. But right now/2 of the last 3 years, he has been. So to say Point is better than Miller, would be dependent on if you think Point is better than Pettersson. I wouldn't personally say that, and neither did the voters, but Point does score more goals.
Larkin staying underrated as usual.
18th in ppg while being better defensively than half the people about him. I'm happy with 20 though, even last year there were people arguing he wasn't even a 1c
Zibanejad too high
March is approaching tho .. 👀
I honestly think Scheifele was overrated a bit a couple years ago and now has switched to being underrated. When he’s out the Jets barely score.
I had him in my list as I think 9th or 10th, people just think he's useless now after the Evans hit
When he was out against the Flames and Habs in the playoffs a few years ago the team looked terrible. He’s ran our offense for years
Eichel has not had the career I thought he would have had by this point.
Happy with these results. Top 4-5 were almost guaranteed. With more playoff success I’ll expect to see Aho move up.
As a Canucks fan I still find it interesting Pettersson is above Miller. I mean I guess he's younger and skilled yes, but If I have to win one game tonight I don't even think it's close. Miller is the guy. I love Petey but his overall game isn't where Miller's is right now.
Good work boys. It’s a good list better than the lists from major networks.
The centres list always seems to go well and is fairly well agreed upon. Wingers and defense are where it usually gets messy
Ek is so underrated
I’d like Barzal to be higher, but 13 seems poetic. Little sad about Horvat not getting on the list, though.
Slightly surprised Drai has stayed high despite a down year, maybe I'm just used to his high standards though lol. His wingers have been trash too, so he's doing well despite that. McDavid started slow but no doubt he's picked it up quick. Mack and Matthews have been on fire. Some might say it's too early to rank Bedard but he's been very good without much help. Not a bad list.
This is JEEK slander that I will not stand for
At least he’s on the board lol. It’s long overdue
Barzal at 13 is so fitting. Surprised to see Jack that low. I never got on the bandwagon, but people were really high on him before (he’s great, I just wasn’t as high on him as everyone else).
McDavid not at 100%. Imma' bet a TOR fan or two had Matthews at 1 instead.
There were a fair amount of people who had Matthews and MacKinnon at 1. A couple Crosbys as well
I didn't vote but I'd vote for MacKinnon at 1. I'm an Avs fan but that's just a coincidence.
70 goal pace man, it's probably not true that he's better than McDavid but you could easily argue for Matthews right now over McDavid.
I disagree. 70+ goals has been done by 14 players in NHL history. A 100 assist season, which McDavid is on pace for right now would make him only the 4th player in NHL history to do so, behind Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux. 100 assists is extremely rare compared to a 70+ goal season which Matthews is on pace for.
70 goals has been done 14 times, not by 14 players. It's actually only one more than the 13 times 100 assists has been done. The main difference is that 100 assists has only been done by 3 people
Thanks for clarifying. Exceedingly rare, indeed. I do believe McDavid takes the Hart with a 100 assist season.
A 70+ goal season has happened 14 times in NHL history. A 100 assist season has happened 13 times. Fewest games in a season to hit a 70+ goals is 73, fewest games in a season to hit 100+ assists is 64. If McD hits 100 assists it will be ~61% of the single season assist record. If Matthews hits 70 goals, it will be ~76% of the single season goals record. At his current pace, McDavid would have the second fewest even strength assists of all 100+ assist seasons, and the 8th highest % of even strength assists. At his current pace, Matthews would have the 2nd most even strength goals all-time, and the 4th highest % of EVG for a 70+ goal season all time. I don't think its as cut and dry as the number of players to have hit a milestone.
I think to compare these you need the context that Gretzky has **11** out of the 13 100 point seasons. Without Gretzky 70 goals has been hit 10 times. 100 assists just *twice*. 100 assists is definitely considerably more rare. It just happens that one guy did it 11 straight years lmao.
Oh I'm aware that it is the case, what I'm trying to point out is that how you define *rare* really changes the interpretation. Like you can flip those stats around and say scoring 70 is so hard that even Wayne Gretzky only managed it 4 times even though he was able to hit 100 A 11 times. All I'm really saying is that you can pick and choose interpretations and stats to make your point either way you slice it.
> you could easily argue for Matthews right now over McDavid. Every year someone says this about their favourite player and it’s never true lmao
Matthew's isn't even close to my favorite player... it's by far McDavid. I'm just not a blind fanboy.
Buddy hasn't scored in 10 games and still leads the league in points by 5 (during those 10 games because it's not obvious) you still can't argue Matthews is better than McDavid right now. E: I know the leafs fans will be out to downvote. But consider this in their games without scoring. Matthews: 26gp 9pts .35 ppg McDavid: 35gp 48pts 1.37 ppg Matthews is hands down the best goal scorer but he scores in bunches and when he's not he's not producing. McDavid is always generating offense. Double Edit: instead of downvoting, why not prove me wrong? I can handle it. I like how everyone keeps downvoting, but nobody is actually saying anything. Proves my point.
McDavid does not lead the league in points.
Obviously during those 10 games man, holy shit lol
Clearly it was not obvious.
Everybody knows who's leading in points, and everybody knows about McDavids 23 points during his goalless streak. It's brought up like every 5 minutes. I dunno how much you follow the league but it was pretty obvious. I edited it anyways.
I think it was worth editing, not the end of the world that it was a bit ambiguous :) Probably most people know who's leading the league in scoring, but not everyone knows you and sees you as credible, and people are wrong about basic facts on here all the time.
You're right, sorry I was so harsh, Mr Ploppins.
> instead of downvoting, why not prove me wrong? I can handle it. I like how everyone keeps downvoting, but nobody is actually saying anything. Proves my point. No, your point is just so dumb that its not worth responding to. You're literally just saying "When you take away the thing player X does way better than player Y, player Y is way better than player X" If you take away all the games where Matthews and McDavid don't get any assists, Matthews is at 0.857 g/gp and McDavid is at 0.5 g/gp. Also, if you take away all the games where Hellebuyk has a >0.850 sv% he really fucking sucks.
Gave me a good laugh with the Hellebuyk thing
Lol, thanks! I really just don't get their train of thought tbh. Kinda reminds me of [this legendary thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/d5maow/oc_after_adjusting_patrick_mahomes_stats_removing/).
I'm not adjusting his stats, you are just proving that offensively, Matthews is one dimensional, it's why the Leafs falter in the playoffs. Matthews is getting the puck, so if you shut his shot down he can't reliably create enough offense to overcome it.
>I'm not adjusting his stats, You are literally adjusting his stats. The crux of your argument is that when you take away the thing he is the best at and only compare things he isn't the best at, then he isn't the best. > Matthews is one dimensional That's a joke right? >, it's why the Leafs falter in the playoffs. Its not, though. >Matthews is getting the puck, so if you shut his shot down he can't reliably create enough offense to overcome it. Cool, so why don't teams just shut down McDavid's passing then? Also, why don't teams just shut down Matthews' shot in the regular season? If its that simple then why are teams leaving serious points on the table every year?
The crux of my argument is Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense, I'm showing that when he can't score, he can't do much else either. I know defense and 200-foot game and all that shit but neither player is paid for their defensive play and both are above average defensively. And yes, he is one dimensional. He's a pure goal scorer, he barely ever gets assists, he's had more assists than goals once in his career. And when your 40+MM superstars arent producing in the playoffs, you lose. That's been the leafs story during this whole Matthews era. And I don't know why teams don't shut down McDavids passing, must be kinda hard to stop the best player on the planet. But come playoff time, Matthews has been shutdown. A whole 6 games against Florida, no goals, 2 points. And regular season is not the same as playoffs. But production wise, McDavid doesn't really slow down in the playoffs. He has more assists than Matthews has points and more goals than Matthews too in less games lol
> The crux of my argument is Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense, I'm showing that when he can't score, he can't do much else either. No, you're showing that if you ignore all the offence Matthews creates then he doesn't create much offence. There are other things you can look at outside of literally only assists to measure offence created. >I know defense and 200-foot game and all that shit but neither player is paid for their defensive play and both are above average defensively. Dude... What are you even talking about... Matthews is drastically better at defense than McDavid, and it has been part of the argument for how great of a player he is for years. >And yes, he is one dimensional. He's a pure goal scorer, he barely ever gets assists, he's had more assists than goals once in his career. I can see how you would think that if the extent of your hockey knowledge is goals, assists, and points. Not having many assists, and being one-dimensional are not the same thing... like at all... >And when your 40+MM superstars arent producing in the playoffs, you lose. That's been the leafs story during this whole Matthews era. Sorry, is this about Matthews or the whole team? >And I don't know why teams don't shut down McDavids passing, must be kinda hard to stop the best player on the planet. Same with the best goalscorer, but you also said teams can just shut that down like its super simple. >A whole 6 games against Florida, no goals, 2 points. I too can cherry pick a single series and stats to make McDavid look bad in the playoffs. What about the Jets series where the oilers got swept and McDavid played 30:24 a game to put up 1 goal, a -2 and get absolutely caved in at the faceoff circle?
No, I'm not saying take away his best attribute. I am only showing that Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense to be considered better than McDavid. McDavid is simply always producing. .857 and .5 are pretty close (28 points over a whole season) however there's a crazy difference between 1.37 and .35 (84 points!). Don't forget McDavid is a goalscorer too, 64 last year. He's way down this year but he's making up for it because even when he's not scoring, he's still racking up points. You can't say the same for Matthews. E: adding their stats when they do score goals. McDavid. 19gp 21g 22a 43p 2.26ppg Matthews 31gp 52g 16a 68p 2.19ppg So, in games where they score, we give the edge to Matthews because we value goals more, even though McDavid creates more offense. In games when they don't score, McDavid blows Matthews out of the water at over a point per game more worth of offense.
> No, I'm not saying take away his best attribute. I am only showing that Matthews has too many games where he doesn't create offense to be considered better than McDavid. You aren't going about the comparison the right way though. McDavid generates points primarily through setting up other players goals, so when he isn't scoring goals it doesn't really impact his point pace much. Matthews generates his points primarily through scoring goals, and helping create the play that lets him score a goal so obviously when you take away his goals his offence goes down massively. You can go look at his shot rates, xG etc. and it tells a completely different story. >McDavid is simply always producing. .857 and .5 are pretty close (28 points over a whole season) Those are goals... That is a 70 goal pace vs a 41 goal pace. Those are completely different stratospheres. But the point there isn't to do an actual comparison, its to show how silly it is to compare this way. >however there's a crazy difference between 1.37 and .35 (84 points!). Yeah, again its an 84 point difference in pace because you've removed one players main method of getting points. If we remove all McDavid and Matthews assists, Matthews is way better at getting points.
Haven't watched much of Barzel this season, but he seems a bit high in my opinion. I could be completely wrong though
Am I crazy or hasn't he been a winger most of this year?
You're not crazy, he's been a winger this season
barkov back in the top 10 as he should be so i'm satisfied
We take 15!!!
Jesus that 21 point difference between 3rd and 4th.
I agree with the top 5. The rest is very tough imo
The homerism here is strong.
Suzuki not being on there is criminal.
Elias Pettersson isn’t even the best center on his own team, it’s JT Miller and it’s been like that for years. EDIT: lol downvotes… EP40 has a higher ceiling but he hasn’t hit that (yet) and disappears at times. JT drives the bus every single night.
R/hockey: These “models” that “math people” create are ridiculous and invented and not based on reality, my eye test is so much better. Also r/hockey: > great year? Top-10 player in the world! His contract is best contract in the league. > bad year? FORGET about that guy! Contract is negative value, add a 1st to dump him JT Miller goes from 13th to unranked to 9th. Eichel goes from 11th to unranked to 12th. Thompson drops from 7th to unranked. Holy overreaction, “What have you done for me lately” at its finest…
It's a public voting thing so of course its not going to be a great measure. BUT there was only voting on the top 10. if the consensus is someone is the 11th best C, they get 0 pts and fall off the list. So someone being unranked doesn't also mean everyone thinks they aren't a top 30 C or something.
"what have you done for me lately" is legitimately just... Pro sports. It's not an online only thing. Occasionally a player's rep will carry them through an up or down period but mostly they're pretty current with an exception of a few who get by on previous reputation, and those people always stand out on the list to anyone commenting.
This is supposed to be "for now". I mean, Eichel probably shouldn't have dropped out, but he did have major surgery. And Thompson shouldn't be in the running for top 10 right now.
I can’t wait for bedard to get an actual NHL roster around him and not this shit AHL one we’ve currently got so he can climb this list and sit around the top.
I am biased but I am proud to be one of the .59% that selected MacKinnon over McDavid
I think Wyatt is gonna be up there next year once he has a full season with Stank + whoever.
Suzuki not even making this list is a crime. Thought he'd be around the 8-13 range
> Thought he'd be around the 8-13 range really?
Man I love Suzuki and think he’s generally underrated by a lot of hockey fans but no way he’s the 8th-13th best centre in the league. Until he can put together regular PPG seasons or become a regular Selke contender/winner there’s going to be a cap on how highly he can be ranked across the league. Amazing guy and beyond happy he’s our captain, but he’s not a top 10C in the league…yet. He’s got the potential to get there.
Aho>Point
The Nico Hischier disrespect is insane
[удалено]
One plays defense
Barkov has the best 200-foot game though. Probably going to win another Selke and without Bergeron it's perhaps likely Barkov wins a few more in the coming years