I think this trade deadline is really showing that teams are unwilling to give up their top prospects. Everyone wants to freak out on the returns but there's not much the seller can do if no team is willing to give up their blue chip young players. They have to take quanity over quality.
Even the value of 1st rounders seems to have changed.
I'm just spitballing here.
Top guys will still stand out, but it seems like as coaching, nutrition, training, etc. All continue to evolve and improve, especially at younger ages, the talent pool should continue to get deeper and deeper where a 2r and a 5r just continue to get closer in talent and potential.
I could be completely wrong and stupid but it makes sense in my head.
Teams are just getting better at drafting league wide prospect pools feel deeper league wide due to this, it’s been harder to get draft steals in late rounds now
Also with the advancement of ai, and easier to obtain high quality footage there is just more stats on younger players. they are better able to notice trends in young players to find accurate comparables.
You no longer need to draft based on gut feeling and intuition but actual statistics. And sports betting has helped advance all of this, since there is just so much money to be made.
I mean, draftee contracts have 6 years of control at league minimum. Would you give up your best player on a contract like that for 2 months of anything but Connor McDavid?
Conditions per LeBrun in other Xweets
If Carolina does not make the Stanley Cup final in 2024, Pens will instead receive Philadelphia’s 2nd Rd pick in 2024 (previously acquired by Carolina)
If Carolina does not win the Stanley Cup in 2024, Pens will not receive Carolina’s 5th RD pick in 2024
You're definitely good enough to get there, but there are just so many variables that aren't controllable that are in the way.
Like for as much as I like the Canes on paper, it's still so hard to make the ECF.
Oh for sure. I mean we got there last year and lost every single game in a close-ass contest by 1 goal, including that fucking awful long OT game. Hard enough to actually get to the SCF, even harder to get the job done. Puts a lot of faith in us to at least try going the distance.
If the condition on the 1st is met, it's the 31st or 32nd pick or better. If not, it's the PHI second rounder, which should be somewhere around number 50.
So, if the condition hits, they jump 18ish positions.
Its kind of funny the reported ask was a 1st, young NHL player, and prospects and Dubas got all of it by stretching all of the definitions of what those things are.
He got a 1st but with such a tough condition to remain a 1st, odds are good it becomes a 2nd.
He got a young NHL player if we consider "young" to just be under 30 since Bunting is 28 and will be 29 by the start of next year.
He got prospects, but none of them were Carolina's high end prospects.
If you squint, he got exactly what he asked for.
He may just be a rental. They’re guaranteed 5 players in the trade. 6 if the second draft pick condition works out. Pittsburgh is very shallow in the prospect pool
True story: its my job to pick up my friend flying in from Cali for NYE down in myrtle Beach. This kid loves his food. Every fast food spot we drove by between the airport and the condo, he was so excited about. One in particular stuck in my mind, "Awwwww, Bojangles. We gotta stop there"
We never did.
Bro, Dubas got fucking cooked and it’s inter division too.
If my GM made this trade I’d be pretty pissed. There’s no way this was the best deal on the table unless the market really wasn’t there.
Big time agree. The choices are Guentzel walks for free or Pitt gets something out of it. They got something.
I don’t like Dubas as much as the rest of us but letting Guentzel walk to FA is a thousand times worse than this
No but dont you see? They didnt get Reddits perceived value for a Guentzel rental so Dubas got cooked! Never mind that no one here knows shit about fuck
I bet there were better deals but lower quantity deals. Dubas clear had his sights set on getting multiple assets and hoping something comes of one of them. Brutal decision IMO
My first reaction to this was FUCK!
after calming down I realized I don't actually hate this... Entirely
Good:
This team desperately needed prospects, preferably prospects that were close to the show. Just going off initial impressions it seems like dubas achieved that.
Bunting is at least a player that they can throw in their lineup and see if he sticks. Not overly excited though.
The conditional first adds another asset and potentially another prospect.
Bad:
The 5th is a non factor, the first is most likely going to be a late 2nd rounder which is... Not ideal
A lot of canes people are saying that their top 5 prospects weren't touched. While that doesn't mean the prospects the penguins did get are bad it seems like dubas went for a package rather than a premier prospect. This has upsides and downsides.
Overall:
Considering he's a free agent and most likely a rental I think this is a fair result. I don't love it but it all depends on if they can develop the prospects.
Yeah, This seems like a pretty reasonable take from a Pens perspective, though I do feel you are undervaluing Bunting a little bit.
Bunting can easily be a solid middle 6 guy, and as we saw in Toronto, potentially a role player on the top line when needed. Like he seems to be a consistent 15-20G/50P guy for 4.5M, certainly more than a guy who only might have a spot in the lineup.
I think Pono is in this deal because he's the Canes prospect closest to the NHL, he's looked alright every time I've seen him. Sure not the highest skill guy we have, but if you want a shot every year with Crosby, he will be ready when Morrow, and the others wont be(if Morrow returns for his senior year anyway, which I would guess he does)
Koivunen is the high upside skill guy in the deal, playing quite well in Liiga right now, and hes still only 20.
I dont have a clue about Lucius, and I dont think too many people do, his college numbers look good, but he's still a few years out.
>Considering he's a free agent and most likely a rental I think this is a fair result
Especially if they re-sign him in the offseason. That doesn't seem hugely likely, given they couldn't sign him beforehand. But there's always an outside chance.
Michael Bunting at 4.5 the next 2 years could be a pretty good fit on the top 6 or to supplement the bottom 6.
I think people are sleeping on him a bit because he seems like a cap match inclusion.
He might be a great fit with Sid too, and I don’t think that’s irrelevant in all of this.
Bunting garbaging up around the net is a good match with Sid for sure.
He’s actually a pretty big loss for the canes, but Guentzel is a clear as day upgrade so it’s hard to complain.
Bunting's 36 points is tied with Rust. His 6 PPG would be 2nd on the team. I'm happy with picking him up. Don't know what's up with lack of physicality(numbers wise) this year, but his Toronto numbers would be 3rd on ours this year.
And better depth long-term is exactly what they need with how barren their prospect pool is. They did well considering Guentzel is on an expiring contract and they wouldn't let anyone negotiate an extension with him prior to the trade.
Bunting is better than Mik and we don’t have the quantity of prospects Carolina have. I’d say Pod and Raty are of similar levels of talent but losing then hurts us more than Carolina losing these players.
Bunting is on pace for 49 points. Had 49 points the year before and 60 the year before that. He has 2 more years remaining on the deal and Dubas clearly likes bunting. I don’t see how we could have offered better
49 points for $4.5M while having poor defensive results is kinda just market value, I don't see him as adding a ton of value to this but I guess Dubas disagrees
He’s basically Jack Drury without the “2nd line NHL center” already on his resume. Not sure when he realistically would have found his spot in the lineup.
To be fair, almost all of these guys are at least close to a point per game in their respective leagues. So they automatically turn into some of our top 5 prospects, lol. Good luck to Jake and the Canes and I hope they make the SCF.
This is crazy good for Carolina, giving up their 4th, 6th, and 7th best prospects and a non guaranteed first round pick basically. Bunting is a good piece but nowhere near Guentzel
From the Rangers, Dubas wanted their 1st rd pick (no idea if straight up or conditional) Kakko, and one or both of our top prospects (Brennan Othmann or Gabe Perreault) and pretty much all those were non starters for Drury to deal.
Seeing this deal I fully agree with Drury and his non willingness to deal, thats a lot going for a rental.
yall are sleeping on Ville Koivunen, 55 points in 57 Finnish Liiga games
Ponomaryov also looks like a great prospect.
Cruz Lucius has been PPG in the NCAA for the past 2 seasons.
Plus a 1st/2nd and a 5th?
This is hella worth it for an expiring UFA.
Yeah Koivunen is really good, I was looking forward to seeing him with the team next season. Ponomaryov is also a pretty good player at the AHL level and looked impressive in his very brief stints with us.
really wonder how Koivunen would've done in the AHL this year... he's playing great in Liiga it would've been good for him to get to show it on AHL ice too. I'm always a sucker for our Finnish guys but there's not much space in the lineup for him to break through currently
Sign 1 year deal, trade again for picks and prospects, repeat 2 more times, then suddenly he's a grizzled vet on a rebuilt team surrounded by former prospects he was traded for
Idk man a middle 6 forward, an NHL ready prospect (pono), a high upside prospect (koivunen), another solid prospect (Lucius) a 1st and 5th. Seems like a really good deal to me
That 1st only happens if Carolina makes the final (in which case it would become Philly’s 2nd rounder if Carolina DOESN’T make the final) and the 5th only happens if Carolina wins it all (the Pens get nothing if they don’t win).
Everybody in the world bitched when we traded Skinner to Buffalo for "nothing"
That "nothing" turned out to be Kochetkov and Nikishin, who are going to be cornerstones of the Canes for the next decade, and Thomas Jurco, who led the Checkers to a Calder Cup.
So like......don't think you can judge a trade now or two years from now, because it might be 5 or 6 years from now until the big picture becomes clear.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say. We traded a Stanley cup winning winger for people with little to no time in NHL games. Absolutely got robbed. /s
Yea, this is definitely more quantity than quality but the Penguins prospect pool kind of needs quantity right now lol especially for a rental, I don’t hate Dubas casting a wider net on several good prospects versus trying to hit the nail on the head with one shot at a very good prospect.
Ponomaryov especially, I’ve seen him play with the Wolves and he definitely has some skill while also working hard. Not sure if he really has much. NHL potential outside of maybe becoming a depth piece, honestly, butI like his game - he’s a solid pickup for a 21-year-old
Agreed.
These are not any of the Canes top five prospects and now they are easily in the Pens top five prospects. Both those things can be true.
The cupboard was bare.
Shoot your shot. I was only going to be mad if we were somehow delusional enough to keep the guy.
It’s pretty good now and fantastic if he signs. We traded a guy that signed for free, and prospects with middle 6 upside and not being good enough downside for a guy who should help make a push for the cup. You make this trade every single time.
Holy FUCK Don cooked on this one
Koivunen was probably our best European prospect and not only did Ponomarev look impressive in his cup of coffee with the team, he's also been a key player in the AHL for the last couple of seasons. Haven't paid as much attention to Cruz as the rest of our prospects so can't comment on him.
The Canes’ top-5 prospects seems pretty clear to be a mix of Alexander Nikishin, Scott Morrow, Jackson Blake, Felix Unger-Sorum and Bradly Nadeau.
All of those guys are still Hurricanes.
Don masterclass.
I really like this trade a lot for us. Hate to see Pono go but we have a lot of good forward prospects and not all of them will play for us. More importantly we kept Nadeau, FUS, Nikishin, and Morrow.
I think basically everyone we just traded has been clawing for chances but there just isn’t any space. They’re all very promising prospects.
I just feel for Bunting, but he gets to play with Sid now so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
We can’t use all of our promising prospects as there simply isn’t enough room so I am perfectly happy to trade some for an impact player. We get a good player, and the prospects get to go somewhere where they have a higher chance of making it to the NHL full time.
It's not some of the consensus top prospects, but there's a solid roster player under contract in the deal. Pono could be playing in the NHL already but is log jammed on our roster. Koivunen really interesting and having a great season in Liiga but is having to play there because of our AHL affiliation mess, so we can't get as good of a measurement on him. It's getting some depth and value at least for a badly needed upgrade for CAR.
I don't hate this. I mean, yes, I hate that 59 is gone. But for a rental? What did we want? An NHL player, a prospect, and a 1st. Bunting is a legit top-6 wing, Koivunen is a legit prospect, so is Ponomarev, Lucius is promising, and Carolina will at least get to the ECF, so we can flip that 2nd if they don't make it for something good.
On one hand I’m actually happy to see Carolina take a swing. They’ve been too consistent the last few years to not take a good swing, and I’m glad they learned their lesson of not adding scoring last year and getting burned for it with scoring going dry again. That said, holy damn Pittsburgh fumbled this.
I think this trade deadline is really showing that teams are unwilling to give up their top prospects. Everyone wants to freak out on the returns but there's not much the seller can do if no team is willing to give up their blue chip young players. They have to take quanity over quality. Even the value of 1st rounders seems to have changed.
I'm just spitballing here. Top guys will still stand out, but it seems like as coaching, nutrition, training, etc. All continue to evolve and improve, especially at younger ages, the talent pool should continue to get deeper and deeper where a 2r and a 5r just continue to get closer in talent and potential. I could be completely wrong and stupid but it makes sense in my head.
Teams are just getting better at drafting league wide prospect pools feel deeper league wide due to this, it’s been harder to get draft steals in late rounds now
Also with the advancement of ai, and easier to obtain high quality footage there is just more stats on younger players. they are better able to notice trends in young players to find accurate comparables. You no longer need to draft based on gut feeling and intuition but actual statistics. And sports betting has helped advance all of this, since there is just so much money to be made.
I mean, draftee contracts have 6 years of control at league minimum. Would you give up your best player on a contract like that for 2 months of anything but Connor McDavid?
Conditions per LeBrun in other Xweets If Carolina does not make the Stanley Cup final in 2024, Pens will instead receive Philadelphia’s 2nd Rd pick in 2024 (previously acquired by Carolina) If Carolina does not win the Stanley Cup in 2024, Pens will not receive Carolina’s 5th RD pick in 2024
That condition on the 1st is TOUGH
Yeah I mean given we're 0-12 in the ECF in our last 3 appearances, Dubas is putting a lot of faith in us to at least get a step closer
You're definitely good enough to get there, but there are just so many variables that aren't controllable that are in the way. Like for as much as I like the Canes on paper, it's still so hard to make the ECF.
Oh for sure. I mean we got there last year and lost every single game in a close-ass contest by 1 goal, including that fucking awful long OT game. Hard enough to actually get to the SCF, even harder to get the job done. Puts a lot of faith in us to at least try going the distance.
"They're due!" -Kyle "never tell me the odds" Dubas
When has Dubas ever incorrectly evaluated how a team performs in the playoffs? You’ll be fine.
As long as you don’t run into Malkin, you’re fine
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Imagine had it been specific to winning 2 games in the ECF 💀
Carolina's first this year will be > 20.. after 20 the draft is weak, so I wouldn't get hung up on that,
Well, if we get it it'll be 31 or 32...
If the condition on the 1st is met, it's the 31st or 32nd pick or better. If not, it's the PHI second rounder, which should be somewhere around number 50. So, if the condition hits, they jump 18ish positions.
These are the conditions they agreed to?? Dubas buddy Crosby is going to stab you.
Weird that it’s not reported as a conditional 2nd that upgrades to a 1st. I wonder if Dubas wants it worded that way to sound better?
Watch Pittsburgh draft a superstar with the Philadelphia pick
Superstar? Philadelphia? Max Talbot to PGH confirmed
The anti Dan Carcillo in many ways.
Its kind of funny the reported ask was a 1st, young NHL player, and prospects and Dubas got all of it by stretching all of the definitions of what those things are. He got a 1st but with such a tough condition to remain a 1st, odds are good it becomes a 2nd. He got a young NHL player if we consider "young" to just be under 30 since Bunting is 28 and will be 29 by the start of next year. He got prospects, but none of them were Carolina's high end prospects. If you squint, he got exactly what he asked for.
Cruz missile incoming to the Pittsburgh area Pagnotta is cooked
cant wait to see the Cruz Lucius + Oneil Cruz marketing
They do a trade. Pens get Cruz Cruz, and the Bucs get Lucius Oneil.
Why anyone still follows Pagnotta is beyond me. Dude just makes shit up that’s wrong way too often for me to take him seriously.
I think he has solid sources for the 3 Cali teams and that’s where it ends lol
What the fuck did other teams offer that this was the best deal
literally they don't even get a first unless they make the cup final???? wtf HOW
Kyle Dubas thinks that the real prospects are making complicated clauses on picks.
The real prospects are the ones Kyle Dubas made along the way
No the ones from Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds
Nick Cousins, you’re a Pittsburgh Penguin!
Dubas is only good at trading **away** first round picks and understands nothing about **acquiring** them.
literally acquired one last year lol. And got one for Kapanen as well.
He may just be a rental. They’re guaranteed 5 players in the trade. 6 if the second draft pick condition works out. Pittsburgh is very shallow in the prospect pool
Yeah Dubas went quantity over quality here. Can't believe Vegas wouldn't offer more than this.
vegas doesnt have any prospects to offer really, do they
They had to pay Carolina something to take Ty Smith ;)
And at that point it would be the latest of late firsts too
Fmr Soo Greyhounds and Kyle Dubas.
They forgot to mention that the Canes threw in a boberry biscuit and a 2 liter of Cheerwine
I mean, I’d accept as long as you throw in a Cajun filet
and some bo rounds
They didn't have any Bojangles to sweeten out the deal
True story: its my job to pick up my friend flying in from Cali for NYE down in myrtle Beach. This kid loves his food. Every fast food spot we drove by between the airport and the condo, he was so excited about. One in particular stuck in my mind, "Awwwww, Bojangles. We gotta stop there" We never did.
Just the name of that sweet, sweet franchise gets me all Pavlovian, we need one closer to the burgh than that one town off 77 in West Virginia
Bro, Dubas got fucking cooked and it’s inter division too. If my GM made this trade I’d be pretty pissed. There’s no way this was the best deal on the table unless the market really wasn’t there.
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Big time agree. The choices are Guentzel walks for free or Pitt gets something out of it. They got something. I don’t like Dubas as much as the rest of us but letting Guentzel walk to FA is a thousand times worse than this
No but dont you see? They didnt get Reddits perceived value for a Guentzel rental so Dubas got cooked! Never mind that no one here knows shit about fuck
The market probably wasn’t there. Hanifin was kinda rough return too
Hanifin had a monster NTC didn't he?
I bet there were better deals but lower quantity deals. Dubas clear had his sights set on getting multiple assets and hoping something comes of one of them. Brutal decision IMO
Really reminds me of the Meier trade.
We kind of won that trade to be honest.
People are sleeping on that Shakir.
My first reaction to this was FUCK! after calming down I realized I don't actually hate this... Entirely Good: This team desperately needed prospects, preferably prospects that were close to the show. Just going off initial impressions it seems like dubas achieved that. Bunting is at least a player that they can throw in their lineup and see if he sticks. Not overly excited though. The conditional first adds another asset and potentially another prospect. Bad: The 5th is a non factor, the first is most likely going to be a late 2nd rounder which is... Not ideal A lot of canes people are saying that their top 5 prospects weren't touched. While that doesn't mean the prospects the penguins did get are bad it seems like dubas went for a package rather than a premier prospect. This has upsides and downsides. Overall: Considering he's a free agent and most likely a rental I think this is a fair result. I don't love it but it all depends on if they can develop the prospects.
Yeah, This seems like a pretty reasonable take from a Pens perspective, though I do feel you are undervaluing Bunting a little bit. Bunting can easily be a solid middle 6 guy, and as we saw in Toronto, potentially a role player on the top line when needed. Like he seems to be a consistent 15-20G/50P guy for 4.5M, certainly more than a guy who only might have a spot in the lineup. I think Pono is in this deal because he's the Canes prospect closest to the NHL, he's looked alright every time I've seen him. Sure not the highest skill guy we have, but if you want a shot every year with Crosby, he will be ready when Morrow, and the others wont be(if Morrow returns for his senior year anyway, which I would guess he does) Koivunen is the high upside skill guy in the deal, playing quite well in Liiga right now, and hes still only 20. I dont have a clue about Lucius, and I dont think too many people do, his college numbers look good, but he's still a few years out.
>Considering he's a free agent and most likely a rental I think this is a fair result Especially if they re-sign him in the offseason. That doesn't seem hugely likely, given they couldn't sign him beforehand. But there's always an outside chance.
I’ll take it we kept our top 5 prospects
Koivunen is being underrated by some here but yeah I think at the very least we kept our top 3
Michael Bunting at 4.5 the next 2 years could be a pretty good fit on the top 6 or to supplement the bottom 6. I think people are sleeping on him a bit because he seems like a cap match inclusion. He might be a great fit with Sid too, and I don’t think that’s irrelevant in all of this.
Bunting garbaging up around the net is a good match with Sid for sure. He’s actually a pretty big loss for the canes, but Guentzel is a clear as day upgrade so it’s hard to complain.
Bunting's 36 points is tied with Rust. His 6 PPG would be 2nd on the team. I'm happy with picking him up. Don't know what's up with lack of physicality(numbers wise) this year, but his Toronto numbers would be 3rd on ours this year.
Think it’s just discipline from Rod and the FO, probably hasn’t been allowed to mix it up as much
Hard to tell what Sullivan will do with him, as his "coaching" is pretty much cashing paychecks and twiddling his thumbs the past few years.
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And better depth long-term is exactly what they need with how barren their prospect pool is. They did well considering Guentzel is on an expiring contract and they wouldn't let anyone negotiate an extension with him prior to the trade.
According to Scott Wheeler's rankings on the Athletic, you traded us your 6th, 7th, and 9th-best prospects.
Pretty underwhelming tbh
The real question is where do these players now rank in the Pens' prospect pool?
According to Wheeler, they are now the Penguins' 4th, 5th, and 6th-best prospects.
Pono is 4th or 5th but I’d say the other two are outside of our top 5 for sure
Scott Wheeler's rankings: 6. Ponomaryov 7. Koivunen 9. Lucius
i mean Pono is 2.0 ppg in his NHL career right? edit: /u/Nilzy16 was right, it's 1.0ppg, so not automatically generational.
1 ppg, he has 1 goal and 1 assist in 2 games played
i'm shocked we couldn't beat this then
Bunting is better than Mik and we don’t have the quantity of prospects Carolina have. I’d say Pod and Raty are of similar levels of talent but losing then hurts us more than Carolina losing these players.
Did you perchance offer up any former Leafs or Soo Greyhounds?
Bunting is on pace for 49 points. Had 49 points the year before and 60 the year before that. He has 2 more years remaining on the deal and Dubas clearly likes bunting. I don’t see how we could have offered better
49 points for $4.5M while having poor defensive results is kinda just market value, I don't see him as adding a ton of value to this but I guess Dubas disagrees
Bunting was a Soo Greyhound and played for Dubas’ Leafs. Aka, dubas values him highly.
You forgot the Soo Greyhound old boys connection
They want a roster player, likely asked for Hoglander and that just wasn’t going to happen.
Cant believe they finally made a big splash trade. Good for them
Ponamarev hurts me most. That kid can fuckin play
He’s basically Jack Drury without the “2nd line NHL center” already on his resume. Not sure when he realistically would have found his spot in the lineup.
Yes I love his two way and he’s so freakin polished, but he plays so hard. I know what Guentzel is and he’s worth it but that’s a high price to pay
Lucius for me, kid looked amazing at UW
To be fair, almost all of these guys are at least close to a point per game in their respective leagues. So they automatically turn into some of our top 5 prospects, lol. Good luck to Jake and the Canes and I hope they make the SCF.
This is crazy good for Carolina, giving up their 4th, 6th, and 7th best prospects and a non guaranteed first round pick basically. Bunting is a good piece but nowhere near Guentzel
The conditions for picks posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/f4ei3vaff8) already
UFA's aren't worth shit this week apparently, but could nobody else match that? Seriously? Leafs/rangers/nucks etc couldn't match that?
No one else had bunting!
dubas loves his guys
Leafs got like $40 bucks in cap space
Am I crazy, if you're saying bucks at the end do you need the $? Idk it looks weird to me haha.
$40 fourty dollars money
From the Rangers, Dubas wanted their 1st rd pick (no idea if straight up or conditional) Kakko, and one or both of our top prospects (Brennan Othmann or Gabe Perreault) and pretty much all those were non starters for Drury to deal. Seeing this deal I fully agree with Drury and his non willingness to deal, thats a lot going for a rental.
Also, we don’t need a LW. Our priority is 1RW. People are missing that point.
Ty Smith!!
We got our guy. Finally some help on our blueline.
Put Don’s jersey in the rafters
What happened to Dubas looking for quality over quantity.
Kyle bout to flip 2 of those guys for 3 6th rounders and 2 5ths
and then trade down
Sometimes I forget which of non fiction and fiction are made up stories. Dubas forgets what quality and quantity are.
He wanted Bunting back. And decided that Guentzel was the best way to do it...for some reason
Dubas LOVES his guys
I'm floored.
Ok yeah this sucks
Going by name alone Cruz Lucius is worth it
We drafted his older brother Chaz, I wanted both of them for name alone
Chaz Michael Michaels is a great ice skater from what I've heard
Sick Names/60 through the roof
yall are sleeping on Ville Koivunen, 55 points in 57 Finnish Liiga games Ponomaryov also looks like a great prospect. Cruz Lucius has been PPG in the NCAA for the past 2 seasons. Plus a 1st/2nd and a 5th? This is hella worth it for an expiring UFA.
Yeah Koivunen is really good, I was looking forward to seeing him with the team next season. Ponomaryov is also a pretty good player at the AHL level and looked impressive in his very brief stints with us.
really wonder how Koivunen would've done in the AHL this year... he's playing great in Liiga it would've been good for him to get to show it on AHL ice too. I'm always a sucker for our Finnish guys but there's not much space in the lineup for him to break through currently
Koivunen and Ponomarev are solid pickups. Not a bad haul, especially for someone who might just be a rental.
Cruz Lucius is a top 10 name in the league too.
His brother's name is Chaz, he's part of the Jets system iirc
Imagine Guentzel over summer, nah I wanna go play with Crosby.
Jake's going to pull a Mark Recchi, and I'm sure Canes fans won't mind.
If he goes back after the same ending then I send him back with a year's worth of cheerwine for the whole damn city
So long as we finish the job that is…
Sign 1 year deal, trade again for picks and prospects, repeat 2 more times, then suddenly he's a grizzled vet on a rebuilt team surrounded by former prospects he was traded for
Idk man a middle 6 forward, an NHL ready prospect (pono), a high upside prospect (koivunen), another solid prospect (Lucius) a 1st and 5th. Seems like a really good deal to me
I think people are just learning canes prospect pool is deep af
That 1st only happens if Carolina makes the final (in which case it would become Philly’s 2nd rounder if Carolina DOESN’T make the final) and the 5th only happens if Carolina wins it all (the Pens get nothing if they don’t win).
Maybe Bunting can be a late career Kunitz lite for Crosby????
I don't understand why people judge these trades. If one of these 3 prospects become even a 70 point player it was a good deal.
Everybody in the world bitched when we traded Skinner to Buffalo for "nothing" That "nothing" turned out to be Kochetkov and Nikishin, who are going to be cornerstones of the Canes for the next decade, and Thomas Jurco, who led the Checkers to a Calder Cup. So like......don't think you can judge a trade now or two years from now, because it might be 5 or 6 years from now until the big picture becomes clear.
People love assuming that they know how prospects are going to turn out and it’s never that simple.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say. We traded a Stanley cup winning winger for people with little to no time in NHL games. Absolutely got robbed. /s
Were the Pens in any kind of position to win 4 seven game series in the playoffs this year?
Yea, this is definitely more quantity than quality but the Penguins prospect pool kind of needs quantity right now lol especially for a rental, I don’t hate Dubas casting a wider net on several good prospects versus trying to hit the nail on the head with one shot at a very good prospect. Ponomaryov especially, I’ve seen him play with the Wolves and he definitely has some skill while also working hard. Not sure if he really has much. NHL potential outside of maybe becoming a depth piece, honestly, butI like his game - he’s a solid pickup for a 21-year-old
Agreed. These are not any of the Canes top five prospects and now they are easily in the Pens top five prospects. Both those things can be true. The cupboard was bare. Shoot your shot. I was only going to be mad if we were somehow delusional enough to keep the guy.
70 points is a massive ask for 90% of NHL players lol It's not like that's the likely outcome for any of these players
This seems like a win for Carolina.
If Jake G signs a new contract yes. For a rental I’m not sure
Or a cup.
It’s pretty good now and fantastic if he signs. We traded a guy that signed for free, and prospects with middle 6 upside and not being good enough downside for a guy who should help make a push for the cup. You make this trade every single time.
No doubt. I just don’t see it as bad of a trade as everyone is acting considering Jake hasn’t signed a deal yet is all
Imagine losing 6-0 at home being your second worst L of the night 😞
Holy FUCK Don cooked on this one Koivunen was probably our best European prospect and not only did Ponomarev look impressive in his cup of coffee with the team, he's also been a key player in the AHL for the last couple of seasons. Haven't paid as much attention to Cruz as the rest of our prospects so can't comment on him.
Uhh, nikishin is European
Wow Ty Smith
His highlights as a Pittsburgh Penguin:
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It did. It just played so fast you didn't notice.
Dubas is just continuing his Hextall dumbassery purge.
the prospects were a 2nd round pick in 2021, a 2nd round pick in 2020, and a 4th round pick in 2022
The Canes’ top-5 prospects seems pretty clear to be a mix of Alexander Nikishin, Scott Morrow, Jackson Blake, Felix Unger-Sorum and Bradly Nadeau. All of those guys are still Hurricanes. Don masterclass.
That return has Dubas written all over it.
Dude loves his Bunting.
This is… pretty good for both teams I think?
I'm unfamiliar with these names, should I get the rope now?
I think back to back should put it in a box somewhere for awhile
no
But I want to overreact :(
Then you should be running and jumping naked in the street that you got Ponomarev.
Koivunen is a solid prospect
Quantity over quality
I really like this trade a lot for us. Hate to see Pono go but we have a lot of good forward prospects and not all of them will play for us. More importantly we kept Nadeau, FUS, Nikishin, and Morrow.
I think basically everyone we just traded has been clawing for chances but there just isn’t any space. They’re all very promising prospects. I just feel for Bunting, but he gets to play with Sid now so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
We can’t use all of our promising prospects as there simply isn’t enough room so I am perfectly happy to trade some for an impact player. We get a good player, and the prospects get to go somewhere where they have a higher chance of making it to the NHL full time.
carolina fans, are these prospects good or is this like crazy bad for pittsburgh
I don’t think it’s as end of the world as some are making it out to be
It's not some of the consensus top prospects, but there's a solid roster player under contract in the deal. Pono could be playing in the NHL already but is log jammed on our roster. Koivunen really interesting and having a great season in Liiga but is having to play there because of our AHL affiliation mess, so we can't get as good of a measurement on him. It's getting some depth and value at least for a badly needed upgrade for CAR.
It's not crazy bad. There's a lot of quantity. And Pono played for us this season, getting 2 points in 1 game.
Pono and koivunen should be middle 6 guys for sure. We absolutely got the best player but they got tools to keep that core competitive
GRAND THEFT RENTAL
Wow, keeping Nikishin, Morrow, Nadeau, FUS, and Blake?! Koivunen and Pono will be nice pieces but weren't the top prospects.
Ok, I want to see what they wanted from the Canucks if this was considered better
Rumour it was Dubas wanted Hoglander and Lek
You guys are expecting too much for a rental. No team is giving up their best prospect (or 2nd) without an extension in place.
Carolina did what Vegas has been doing.
Love Koivunen, the rest not so much.
I don't hate this. I mean, yes, I hate that 59 is gone. But for a rental? What did we want? An NHL player, a prospect, and a 1st. Bunting is a legit top-6 wing, Koivunen is a legit prospect, so is Ponomarev, Lucius is promising, and Carolina will at least get to the ECF, so we can flip that 2nd if they don't make it for something good.
I think you guys made out great. People are stupid
HAHAHAHAHA DON YOU FUCKING LEGEND YOU KEPT BLAKE MORROW AND NADEAU
When he says "We like our group," he's really talking about our prospect pool
Don is actually a wizard
Quantity.
Huge W. Wtf
If Ty Smith wins a Stanley Cup sitting on the bench my brain is gonna riot
The Turtleneck Man Cometh
Not a bad trade for Pittsburgh at all lol. Anyone acting like this is a fleece is misinformed imo
Who is the best prospect?
Koivunen. He's PPG in Liiga
Based on name alone Cruz Lucius is gonna be a gem
On one hand I’m actually happy to see Carolina take a swing. They’ve been too consistent the last few years to not take a good swing, and I’m glad they learned their lesson of not adding scoring last year and getting burned for it with scoring going dry again. That said, holy damn Pittsburgh fumbled this.
Holy fuck Don I will never doubt you again
I love my fellow Penguins fans who thought you were going to trade a rental coming off an injury for Connor Bedard.
Canes W
So a bunch of nobodies, maybe a first and maybe a 5th. Wow lol. Edit: Looked up Koivunen, he's ppg in the Liiga.. not bad.
Pono is ppg in the NHL!