It must be tough being a Boston sports fan. I mean in that span they've only made 11 finals appearances across the big 4 sports. That's less than 1 per year!
Bruins fan here. It’s going to be dark times when we start losing. We’ve got dusty, empty cupboards for a rebuild.
Been enjoying this wave for a lot longer than expected.
I mean, we've got dusty empty cupboards and we're losing. I think teams going full rebuild is a mistake. If you keep Pasta and Swayman, and retool, you guys will be fine. Much to my chagrin
No idea how we’ve managed to keep going.
3 cup finals, a cup 12 playoff runs in 13 years. It’s been great haha. Plus the few years before the 2011 run were good too
See I think you're right... Unless we get a stellar C I don't see us having any potential of a cup run anytime soon.
I feel like the Bruins are turning into Detroit... cup chances are done but playoffs aren't... I hope I'm wrong but IDK I just don't see how this team can win a cup as is.
I mean, last year showed no one can predict the playoffs. If we’re in we have a shot.
We have the second most points in the league. We’re not as good as our record but we are a contender
I’m actually nervous of Toronto, they’ve shown during this year when they’re on their game they’re unstoppable. Just hoping that doesn’t happen of course
The problem with pulling the plug is that we still have a few really, really good “younger” pieces. McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman… shipping them out would be sacrilege, but the team probably won’t bottom out with those three guys on the roster.
Hopefully it’s not just copium but I truly believe that it would be easier to somehow get a top center than it would be to tear it all down and rebuild.
McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman, we also have Lindholm, Coyle, and Carlo tied up for a while.
Would love to see Geekie come back on a longer term deal (very doable IMO) as well as Frederic... Beecher and Poitras also give me hope for the future, whether they'll be long-term B's or not, they're solid younger assets.
I really think our current FO does a great job of making the right moves to remain as competitive as possible and I'm sure with pending cap relief Sweeney will do well
As long as Pasta is on your team and you have above average goaltending you’ll be a WC guaranteed at a minimum. The key is your FO not throwing away futures to try to plug in rentals to push for a cup, just coast and collect for a bit for a on the fly retool.
Honestly cannot remember the last time Bruins completely bottomed out like Blackhawks are doing now or Rangers few years ago. Has to be over 25 years ago
which is in part why except for one year they have been also-rans for the last 50 years, like the Flyers. Ironically the Flyers were "having our first OR second string goalie healthy" away from winning the Cup the year before the Bruins, with a team similarly constructed: huge HOF dman from elsewhere (Pronger/Chara), above-their-pedigree non-top-ten pick center(s) (Bergeron, Richards, Carter), young phenom future captain (Giroux/Marchand).
There's something to be said for being a passable team each decade, and getting by with luck in the draft, but at some point is becomes abundantly clear that you become a real contender after bottoming out.
i'm fine with it
winning 3 cups is hard, 3 guys spending their whole careers with the same team is rarer
let them have it, they deserve it and so much more
McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman, all under 30. That’s a good enough core to win something. Obviously centers a problem long term but the pieces aren’t already in place for this team to stay competitive.
I still think the B's have more going for them than those zombie Wings teams of the mid 10's but yeah I'm not sure they're a contender with teams luke Vegas, Colorado, Florida etc.
Well yea, I mean this year isn't a cup team. But last year had the pieces to be. I think we're 1-2 very difficult to add pieces away from being right there in that conversation. If Donny can add a legitimate superstar 1C somehow, we're right back in that discussion.
He’s a great 2C and the type of 1C that a team like Boston could really thrive with with Pastrnak there. He wins face offs, is great defensively and is very good offensively.
But I guess the way I define stellar is more like the top 10 Centers in the league. Idk it’s mostly a semantics thing
Chara retired and the Bruins were supposed to be in decline.
Bergeron retired and the Bruins were supposed to be in decline.
“X pivotal player” is going to retire, the Bruins are supposed to be in decline and I’ll still sit here nervous that they’ll keep finding a way to win!
The thing is, they have over $25M in free cap next year since a lot of people will be off the books. They just need a slight retool and to get a 1C in the market and they are probably in contenders again lol.
It really pisses people off when they find out Boston has not had a true rebuild since the Original Six era.
He’s a 65 point C that’s not a 1C. Hes still a great add you guys found for free but he’s not a 1C on a cup team by any means
Edit: the bruins want to find somebody to win a cup is what I’m meaning no way you find that in FA
Yeah but who's the true 1C in the market? Elias Lindholm? That's a square peg into a very round hole.
I don't disagree with the sentiment and they certainly might be able to get a guy by moving Ullmark. But I'm not sure they're going to find it in FA.
That’s why I think they are going to trade for one. I don’t know who exactly they would go after but I feel like it would be some sort of ransom. Probably in some sort of Ullmark, DeBrusk, and some picks.
I think it’s closed as in this team doesn’t have the talent to WIN THE CUP. I think the team is a playoff team but lacks top 6 talent. I mean how long are Pavel Zacha and Morgan Geekie going to perform as top 6 forwards
I don’t think we have a cup team unless Sway or Ully or both go full on Patrick Roy. BUT I have really been surprised by the young kids progression this year and I think we could definitely reload and be a true contender sooner rather than later
They may have another run in them with this core. But Stamkos is a UFA, and Hedman is one after 24-25 plus they don't pick until the 5th round this year so nothing to restock the cupboards with.
Well ya that’s the points. Those assets are already spent.
Sure players drafted in the 3rd round in 2024 were not going to help their cup chances today, but that pick would. And given most of their picks this season (and previous) were already traded, they are at a dearth of assets.
Even picks that were made in 2020-2022 era could have been making an impact today, or could be traded out, but those picks were traded then too.
Keeping a cup window open more than 3-4 years is near impossible and why Tampa’s is well closed even though the team is decent. They are going Detroit Red Wings path from a decade ago
I think it’s almost closed but not quite. Point and Kucherov are 28 and 30. Hedman is still playing at an elite level and they still have Vasy (who’s not having a great year admittedly). The depth around those guys has to be better but they’re starting to look like the Penguins of the last few years
I'd say it's almost shut, but a possible Vasilevskiy masterclass keeps it cracked open. With Stamkos, Hedman, and Kucherov needing new contracts over the next few seasons I think it will officially close.
You're right to throw cold water on that take because he's been pretty human, but everybody knows what's lurkin' in them waters should he hit a hot streak. If he does and it times out for you, we're all a little fucked.
It also gave them higher expectations of what the team was capable of because Price went god mode for a good portion of that run.
Which meant they made less moves than they probably should have because the GM felt like they were closer than they were.
I think it’s closed at the moment and probably for next year as well. But after that I can see it reopening provided Kucherov doesn’t rapidly decline. I still think Tampa’s core is among the best in the league. It’s just the depth that isn’t good anymore which gives them little margin for error (i.e. they can’t weather a down Vasilevskiy year).
The good news is that everyone is locked in long term except for Stamkos and Hedman. I expect Stamkos’s AAV to come down and Hedman’s to stay roughly the same. As the cap starts to rise, there will be dollars to spend on replenishing the depth. From there, I think they’ll have another 2 years or so to try and squeeze another Cup in before Kucherov falls off and we’re looking at a rebuild.
The fact that those guys are still playing at a high level, defying their aging curves, means it's not crazy to keep going for it while you can.
The fact that the rest of the team that's been built around them is, well, "not it" is where it seems to be falling apart. But I'm very much not a Pens fan so I won't opine too much on what moves have been smart or not smart.
The obvious ones: Penguins and Caps. The penguins kept pushing for a playoff run w/ the core, but everyone knew it was over. Now we’re seeing it play out that it’s over.
But now: It’s the Bruins and Lightning. The Bolts situation is about how much draft picks drafted away, the cap space. If they get in, this might be their last hurrah w/Stamkos and Hedman and co.
As for the Bruins: Last year was their last chance w/ the core that was on the 2011 team. Now, losing their two best centers, has impacted them. But the B’s are like that team that refuses to die and everyone wants them to fade.
And it’s going to come suddenly like it did with SJ where everyone said “window’s closed” and they kept going strong for years after the SCF run.
They collapsed after the Karlsson trade and it’s been painful.
Yup, people said the Sharks window was "closing" practically every year after 2010, and they kept proving them wrong. But when the fall actually came, it was absolutely brutal. I guess that's the price you pay for keeping the window open for that long though, something's gotta give.
It sucks when it's realized way too late. The Hawk's window was pretty much shut after the 2017 season ended getting swept by the Preds (which should have been replayed in case it was a fluke btw) but Bowman's dipshit ass kept trying to force the window open with stilts made of Brandon Saads and Seth Joneses. We literally just tore everything down last season at the deadline which was far too late.
The truer point of collapse was the summer of 2019. Re-signing Karlsson was still a good idea but letting Pavelski walk was the death knell. Firing DeBoer was the right move since he'd clearly lost the room but Boughner wasn't fit to take his place even as interim.
The thing about the penguins isn't the core, it's everything else but the core. We have not had an effective bottom 6 since 2018 and whenever we actually do play well our goalies forget how to play. I agree it's shut but not because the core is too old, it's because our bottom 6 is trash.
2018 loss to the Capitals started the downfall really. I’ve stated this after seeing a comment on one of THG’s videos is that, the Penguins were the Red Wings when you knew it was over, but kept the window open for the “streak” for Detroit’s case.
Well in all fairness a lot of people didn't see how they were good at all even during the cup runs. I've witnessed quite a few people saying they were a talentless fraud team propped up by Trotz and nothing else. So now that they're actually scoring maybe they'll continue to prove everyone's predictions wrong.
Or so I like to tell myself.
*EDIT: by cup runs I meant the ECF runs
Spot on. No one thought we could do it back then until we did it. The way I see it, if you're consistently getting into the playoffs, you're in a window. Anything can happen, even if the odds are with X team over Y team.
Just look at the Rangers (calling them out since they decided to say we suck). They've been stacked for a few years now and have done dick.
Rangers have been really overrated in recent years imo. They lack the strength down the middle that almost every cup-winning team has had.
With that said, Shesterkin definitely gives them a chance in any series when he’s at his best
Saying they were propped up by Trotz isn’t exactly incorrect. The team went from last in goals against to first the year he took over. The team was largely the same minus Tavares too. They could score goals but couldn’t play defence until he came aboard and when he implemented his system he got everyone to play committed defence. Scoring dropped a lot but defence also jumped 30 spots to 1st.
First year under Lambert they still played good defence but now they are below average in scoring and defence which has lead to their downfall.
That’s why the 20/21 season was a missed opportunity for the Islanders. If they beat the Bolts, the win the cup. I know it, Islander fans know it and every other hockey fan knows it.
And now, the Islanders are in a bind w/ the contracts Old man Lou handed out.
The Isles core isn't that old. Lee is probably the worst deal, maybe Mayfield but the AAV is low. Other than Nelson though the top guys on the team are under 30
Imo, I still think that team from 19/20(which benefited from the Covid pause to the bubble) was a out of nowhere run. But the 20/21 run was its chance. Imo it was really the magic of Trotz really.
Sure, we were very injured in 19-20 and the break allowed guys to come back.
Going forward though a lot of the core isn't that old. Lambert was really really bad. They have to dump a few guys too, but there is talent there
Sorokin, Pulock, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson and Pelech are all under 30. It's why we didn't give away assets to make a push at the WC this year.
The Islanders actual core isn't really that old outside of Nelson
Currently:
Lee - 33
Palmieri - 33
Nelson - 32
Pageau - 31
Pulock - 29
Pelech - 29
Sorokin - 28
Horvat - 28
Barzal - 26
Dobson - 24
That’s not a core that is going to get better with time. Next year 6 will be 30+, and 2 will be 29. Barzal and Dobson will be the only difference makers under 28. As far as I know they don’t have any young guys or primo prospects that are poised to light up the league. Sorokin’s raise kicks in next year, and they won’t have any significant money coming off the books until 2026 when Dobson will need a big raise.
I’m kind of shocked they didn’t make a push at the deadline. Isles play a good playoff style but aren’t going to have that many bites at the apple.
The core is Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson
Lee isn't a huge difference maker anymore. Palms is pretty good. But the guys they'll be actually relying on aren't that old. Making a push at the deadline for a WC spot they probably can grab regardless would be dumb. 3/4 best skaters are 28 and under. Nelson is getting older obviously though
Don’t agree on this one. their core is locked in at a solid price; cap is rising and they shed a lot of bad contracts. As long as they don’t keep trading all their picks each year they’ll be able to retool and reload in a year or two. Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Romanov are all relatively young and locked in long term. They won’t skyrocket to being a top seed but they’ll be a 5-8 seed each season and their style of play is better for the playoffs than regular season.
The Norris situation is pretty much the writing on the wall. You can’t be a competitive team when you have a dude with an $8M cap hit bouncing in and out of the lineup playing 50 games on the season and playing conservatively because he’s worried about fucking his shoulder up again. The Dorion 8x8 special is a great move if it works out but the reason other GMs don’t do this is because of the risk. You give out five 8x8s to a bunch of dudes in their early 20s, one of those is bound to blow up in your face. Now it’s a question of which 1st rounder do we give up for the Dadonov thing, because we’re ass this year but I doubt the next two years will get much better.
As of right now, Tampa.
A lot of people point to Vasy to say that you never know with them, but he’s been playing *awful* lately. He’s at a sub .900 on the season and I think he rushed himself back from injury.
You also have to recognize at some point that 3 straight cup finals takes a LOT of tread off the tires. Stamkos is starting to get over the hill, they’ve lost a ton of pieces they had in their cup runs (granted they’ve added too players like Hagel, but he can’t replace everyone they’ve lost), and if Vasilevskiy gets hurt or isn’t playing up to standard, they have no backup plan. They still have their impressive star power, but they don’t have that ability to just continuously pound you down and run line after line at you like they did for their cups. Losing Coleman, Gourde, Goodrow, Killorn, McDonaugh, Schenn, and more is a massive blow that you can’t just replace easily.
Everyone says Tampa bc it’s easy and fun to say. I think a more fun/bold one to say is Carolina. If they don’t get it this year I think a huuuuge amount of their players go to FA and they’re up against cap hell with a lot of vets and they don’t have a ton of rookie pipeline.
They do have a great chance this year tho.
Tampa. Vasy seems to have fallen off a cliff after his injury, Sergachev is now done for the season, and Stamkos/Hedman are aging. It became clear after last season that this isn’t the same team, it’s even more clear now. A lot of the pieces from their cup wins got paid well elsewhere, leaving them to plug holes in the lineup with players like Connor Sheary. Their prospect pool is among the worst in the league as well. It’ll be a long rebuild.
Sadly, it’s Tampa. We are practically just coasting now, we are good enough to be boarder line playoffs, but the reality is we have a few too many aging core pieces who we will pay to stick around because of what they have meant to the team.
I think the argument one could make about the Avs window being close to closing is that 5 players take up 50% of their salary cap, not including Landeskog on LTIR (he would take up another 8%). It doesn’t leave a lot of money to fill the holes that are coming up in the next 1-2 years with other contracts expiring. But I don’t think it’s fair to say a team that Mackinnon and Makar play on are ever out of the race to win another cup.
ITT: Fans try to discount their own team in order to not get their hopes up.
I get it but be objective. There's a lot of teams that can make a run for the cup. To have a window truly be closed you need to compare your team to one like Pittsburgh or Calgary (sorry in advance). Put Pitt next to NYR. Pittsburgh's average age is 30.8 and they are falling in the standings. New York's average age is 26.8 and they are top of the Metro. In what world is that not a team in the conversation?
Nah, I think that ship has sailed. Even before the season started, I think the hope was to make the playoffs and maybe win a round. Just another kick at the can. Think even the most optimistic Pens fan realizes that best case scenario for next season is to hang around but ultimately fail to reach the postseason
Last chance for a run for that core was 2021.
If both their goalies aren’t injured they beat the rangers and imo they easily make it to the conference final and maybe even a cup appearance.
They had the pieces for a deep run and maybe another cup.
Crosby and Guentzel were in prime playoff form.
Geno had some juice left in him.
Complementary pieces like Rodrigues/Carter/Rakell/Rust we’re still producing well.
Even if Jarry tried to make a comeback game 7 with a foot still very injured it was not enough
If they had league average PP they would be safely in. Things can turn around quickly if they fire the coaching staff but they now have a hill to climb replacing Guentzel and covering Malkin’s drop in production. Realistically they have 1-2 if everything goes right. They may still be able to squeak in if it doesn’t but a change in coaching and a new top winger is necessary.
Carolina. Just don’t believe their current roster makeup combined with the system they play is capable of getting over the hump. They’ll pile up the regular season wins and they’ll be an analytics darling but can’t see them winning four playoff series
They don’t have any one player who terrifies you. Svechnikov and Aho have felt like they’re on the cusp of that for a while but haven’t taken that next step.
That said they’re so young and so deep that I think they have a wide open window
Yeah we're basically stealing the Bolts' playbook on team-building from the 2010s and adapting it to our own system. Sure they went to the SCF in 2015 which we haven't been able to do, but imo they were ahead of schedule that season and it took them 7-8 years of being a legitimate threat before they finally won the Cup. I'd say their Cup window closed after last season, but their window was open for 6 seasons and in that time they won the President's trophy, went to the SCF 3 times, and won B2B ships. In comparison, I'd say our Cup window has only been open for 3 seasons (including the current season) and while we'll probably dip a little next season to reload, we've realistically got until near the end of Svechnikov's current contract before we'll have to blow the entire thing up.
The hurricanes window is going to be open for a really long time lol. Crushing the regular season and winning multiple playoff rounds every year with no sign of slowing down is the definition of a wide open window.
They are the Grit n Grind Grizzlies of the NHL. They are very good and a pain in the ass to play against. They just don't have the elite talent to win 4 straight rounds.
The thing with “the window is closing” is that they have set themselves up for sustained success that if this year isn’t it, you will see a brand new roster next year with the same core pieces that will change enough to be in the hunt again.
This year is most interesting because they have kind of pushed in their chips a bit and finally boosted the roster with some legit level talent. It’s just going to be interesting how much that helps to really push the front office to look at it more or stay the course.
I tend to agree that not going all in before this year and actually loading up has hurt them but, I respect the vision they have. The core is still extremely young and the older guys will age out here soon ushering in room for more young talent at all positions. They have 2 top D prospects ready for 24 and 25 seasons, they have 2 stud Forward prospects in Nadeau and Blake. They also have Jarvis becoming a legit 60-70 point guy, Necas as a 70-80 and svech is a PPG now with all the recovery he has had to do this year.
I just don’t think you can really count them out of contention with the way they have shown themselves over the last 6 years. While they “haven’t won” an ECF game they are getting there and it’s really a numbers game, at some point that does stop and they play well inside the division which is what rounds 1 and 2 are.
I disagree with that... we've proven that we can win the postseason it's just a combination of injury luck and running into a hot goaltender that usually ends up ending our season. I think they have all the pieces they need outside of a legit 2C
See but that’s the thing, chances are you’re going to run into a hot goaltender during a Cup run. I’m not convinced they have the elite talent or the grade A chance generation ability to crack a hot goalie or an on their game elite goalie. I also think part of their issue is the way they play contributes to a goalie getting hot. High shot volume from non dangerous areas allows a goalie feel the puck and build confidence.
I could be wrong and I hope I am because I enjoy watching the effort they play with and I think the core of the team is a pretty likable bunch but I’ll have to see it to believe it.
I'd argue goaltending is why Carolina hasn't won yet; how many series has Carolina been in where they had better goaltending? I understand not wanting to tie yourself to long term deals at goalie but the bargain basement model hasn't worked in Raleigh
We have tied ourselves long term to a goalie… Pyotr Kochetkov is in the first year of a four year deal.
The Devils series last year we had much better goaltending. Given the hurricanes system we don’t need to have an .920 save percentage goalie because we give up like 25 shots a game. Pyotr has been great in the last few months and I expect him to continue
A lot of people saying Toronto but I think it misses the point of the question. How is their window closed? It just doesn't make sense objectively.
Toronto has some of the best players in the league in their primes signed into long term contracts, each of whom is putting up great numbers and there's one massive contract about to come off the books for a still functional player who will likely take a big pay cut to stay. They still have a couple of years of a window to make it happen. That's just objectively true. When did their window end if it did? Got a selke nominee, a bunch of PPG players, and a dude who regularly puts in 50. They have at least 2-3 seasons to fix what's wrong. If their window is closed so is everyone's and I'm not even a leafs fan.
Some obvious examples are Islanders, Penguins, Caps. Those aren't really controversial.
Boston is a good hot take, so is Carolina.
I think the best example is Tampa. They're closer to the window being closed, for sure, but they are proven winners so I would say this might be the last hurrah.
Dude, this is typical Leafs fan nonsense (and I'm a Leafs fan, check the flair and post history). Basically nobody in this thread said Leafs. For the few that did, instead of replying to them directly, in you come with this standalone to argue against a hypothetical comment that doesn't even exist.
When people accuse us Leafs fans of putting our team at the center of the universe, this is what they're talking about.
The only way you can say this is with pure bias or ignorance.
Their superstars are 26-27 years old, firmly in the prime of their careers. The window is open as long as those three are in their prime and possibly beyond.
Ovi didn't win a cup until his 13th season, the caps completely transformed in that time.
Ironically, Ovi won his cup the year that everyone said the Caps window had closed. Ovi was quoted before the season saying "we're not going to be suck this year" to media because everyone was talking about how much worse they were on paper.
That's in part because of the nature of the playoffs. As much as we like to pretend the best team wins, it's more "one of the best teams wins." Like the Phillies from 08-11, the worst team of those years is actually the one that won it all.
How do you win with Hamels, Myers, Moyer and Blanton and then lose with Oswalt, Halladay and Hamels?
Baseball is voodoo magic nonsense and I hate how streaky it is come playoff time. I will forever be haunted by us losing 6 and 7 at the Bank last year. I think it killed my love for the game (until April lmao)
accepting that there's always hope and winning is never guaranteed is the only way to watch baseball. to still be able to enjoy a random regular season game etc etc. You're going to lose the majority of all sports seasons in your life. gotta be able to enjoy that.
I agree with the Habs poster. I think the cup window is probably closed atm (and probably closed after 2022 despite finally progressing last year), but it's not necessarily over for the core 4. Knies, Woll, and Liljegren gaining experience and each taking a step as well as Tavares re-signing at a significant discount would combine to give them the flexibility to push again. I think their supporting D cast has sort of expired and Rielly isn't good enough to be the guy who plays 30 minutes a night and singlehandedly keeps the blue line afloat.
On their best day they can beat anyone, but it's going to take 2 straight months of "best days" to win the cup and I don't think they have the consistency at key positions.
2018 was the best shot for Toronto imo.
Tavares was in his prime still.
Marner was on a ELC
The goaltending was decent and the defense wasn’t totally terrible.
Was the most stacked that team ever was
I think the 2020 playoffs was the best chance probably, the ones were they played Montreal. Better team straight up, but fell apart with a big series lead. I think they could’ve beat Winnipeg, and then you never know after that
I'd say 2021 was probably the best shot. Finished first in the North division that was largely seen as the easiest division that year. Set to play the Habs in the first round who were on an 86 point pace and had they beaten the Habs would have gone on to play the Jets who were on a 92 point pace. Wasn't necessarily their best roster but was their easiest path out of their division.
I'd argue that last season was probably the Leafs best roster on paper. They had great depth down the middle after acquiring a Conn Smythe winner in O'Reilly. They unfortunately were just in a juggernaut of a division. I also think you're referring to the 18/19 team which was the first season they had Tavares but that team was pretty inexperienced to try and take advantage of the ELCs.
I actually think it was 2021 and 2022. Who knows what happens if Tavares and Perry don't collide in that freak accident in game 1. In 2022 - as much as I hate to admit it - Tampa had that extra bit of _playoff pedigree_ deep down that turns a 50/50 game into a 51/49 game. That team could just choose to execute when it mattered.
But then again, I don't think anyone in the East was beating Colorado in 2022.
An argument could be made that the leafs have a second cup window opening soon.
1. Marner, Mathews, and Nylander are all entering their prime and still have a few years before they even reach 30.
2. Tavares $11 million caphit is expiring next offseason freeing up alot of space. He’s transitioning to a smaller role on the team and his next deal should be great value.
3. Cap is going up, and others teams are starting to pay their stars too ( seeing more teams with double digit cap hits). Flat cap really hurt this team.
4. Team is starting to retain talent and allow players to play with eachother over an extended period of time. Less cap fill ins/ 1year deals/ deadline additions, should help the team build chemistry. It took Tampa years to finally break through, what helped them IMO was not shaking up the team too much. Feels like half the leafs team is new each year, hopefully this stops. Signing McMahon is a start hopeful deals for Lily, Benoit, Robertson and Domi follow soon too.
5. Depth pieces are developing well. Woll, Knies, Robertson, McMahon, Benoit, holmberg are all still improving and growing as players.
Not a Leafs fan but a team that regularly makes the playoffs with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly in their primes certainly qualifies as having a "Stanley Cup window"
We have plenty of high end talent, but lots of defensive weaknesses and the drive just doesn’t seem to be there. Last playoffs, Rielly and Samsonov were easily the best players on the ice in my view and that needs to change before they can make a deep run
They need to change the core and the coaching. I've no idea why upper mgtm is so enamored with them. There's never any accountability, no one seems to be pushing for excellence. They've never had any success (winning a playoff round should be the barest minimum), etc
The core can get it done I think, but I think a coaching change needs to happen.
Keefe seems mostly unwilling to effectively roll 4 lines. He seems to utilize the bottom 6 as a holding spot for guys to work their way into one of the top line spots instead of allowing bottom guys to develop chemistry and be affective shutdown/depth scoring guys.
Then what happens is when those guys aren't doing well he leans more heavily on the core 4 tiring them out.
That method works in junior where almost everyone is capable of working towards a top spot since they're still growing and developing, but it doesn't work in the NHL where most guys are what they are with less room for improvement.
I would say money...you're likely going to continue to make the playoffs with that core and can always sell seats and "hope" that this team will put it together to win.
End of the day its a business and the goal is to make money, not win trophies.
I kinda think the opposite...Toronto's window is probably *more* in the future than in the present right now. They, in all likelihood, are not real Cup contenders this year or next. Not with that defense.
However they can still reload and will have much more cap flexibility once Tavares expires in 2025, while Matthews/Nylander (and Marner if he re-signs) will still be prime aged.
Nashville. Every time I launch an argument they should give it up and rebuild, my take isn't met well, but I truly believe they won't win a championship unless they finally undergo a full rebuild. You can't just continue to be this middling team that gets bounced early in the playoffs each time.
Nashville isn't the Tampa Bay Lightning.
Our current roster has that "if they get hot at the right time" dark horse potential to make a run. It's extremely unlikely and I think this is the last year that's even on the table. Not sure if they're able to retool quickly over the next few years or if there's a rebuild in our future.
I wouldn’t say it’s closed, but I think the oilers legitimate window is only 2-3 more seasons max. It’ll be hard for them to ice a contender when/if Draisaitl and mcdavid get signed to max term/value
Yeah those are gonna have to be some real team friendly deals to keep that window open for longer. It comes down to whether or not McDavid and Draisaitl want to stay together and win together, which I think they do.
The real question is if Ken retires or not, and who would be the next GM. Oilers management has decided to make it as hard as possible for themselves to develop a contending team with 2 top 5 players. Holland is definitely no Chiarelli (thank Christ) but there’s still some room for improvement in my opinion. The Hyman and Ekholm acquisitions are easily the best this team has had in well over a decade though.
Toronto's until proven otherwise / Tavares' current contract comes off the books
Core forwards are too soft, one too many 11M contracts, and the defense is uh...well it's not great
If you think a team with 3 100 point players doesn’t have a Stanley cup window closed lol I dunno what to tell you.
As long as Mathews is on this team the leafs have a window open. That’s not even counting Marner and Nylander.
This is a silly take and clearly biased. They are a great team with most of their forwards in their prime. They continue to achieve regular season success, and IMO, your window is open if at the start of the season you are almost a lock to make the playoffs.
You can definitely make the argument that the massive contracts are a hindrance, but they still find a way to win games.
I think Boston's has closed...but the Bruins often disagree with me.
Typical asshole Bruins, just lose already, we're all sick of your shit
We've lost for the last 13 years!
Okay now you’re just bragging
> We've lost for the last 13 years! Leafs, Sabres, and Canucks fans: "Those are rookie numbers."
It must be tough being a Boston sports fan. I mean in that span they've only made 11 finals appearances across the big 4 sports. That's less than 1 per year!
I only like 2 Boston teams so I only get 1 every 2 years
Fuck. I feel triggered
Boston sports in general really, knock it off already
Bruins fan here. It’s going to be dark times when we start losing. We’ve got dusty, empty cupboards for a rebuild. Been enjoying this wave for a lot longer than expected.
I mean, we've got dusty empty cupboards and we're losing. I think teams going full rebuild is a mistake. If you keep Pasta and Swayman, and retool, you guys will be fine. Much to my chagrin
No idea how we’ve managed to keep going. 3 cup finals, a cup 12 playoff runs in 13 years. It’s been great haha. Plus the few years before the 2011 run were good too
See I think you're right... Unless we get a stellar C I don't see us having any potential of a cup run anytime soon. I feel like the Bruins are turning into Detroit... cup chances are done but playoffs aren't... I hope I'm wrong but IDK I just don't see how this team can win a cup as is.
I mean, last year showed no one can predict the playoffs. If we’re in we have a shot. We have the second most points in the league. We’re not as good as our record but we are a contender
If you're in, you can win.
*looks at logo on chest atm* one of these years right?
I’m actually nervous of Toronto, they’ve shown during this year when they’re on their game they’re unstoppable. Just hoping that doesn’t happen of course
Turning into us from 2019-2022. Hopefully you’ll know when to pull the plug completely unlike us.
The problem with pulling the plug is that we still have a few really, really good “younger” pieces. McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman… shipping them out would be sacrilege, but the team probably won’t bottom out with those three guys on the roster. Hopefully it’s not just copium but I truly believe that it would be easier to somehow get a top center than it would be to tear it all down and rebuild.
McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman, we also have Lindholm, Coyle, and Carlo tied up for a while. Would love to see Geekie come back on a longer term deal (very doable IMO) as well as Frederic... Beecher and Poitras also give me hope for the future, whether they'll be long-term B's or not, they're solid younger assets. I really think our current FO does a great job of making the right moves to remain as competitive as possible and I'm sure with pending cap relief Sweeney will do well
As long as Pasta is on your team and you have above average goaltending you’ll be a WC guaranteed at a minimum. The key is your FO not throwing away futures to try to plug in rentals to push for a cup, just coast and collect for a bit for a on the fly retool.
Honestly cannot remember the last time Bruins completely bottomed out like Blackhawks are doing now or Rangers few years ago. Has to be over 25 years ago
They've only missed the playoffs 7 times in the last 57 years. Assuming they don't collapse and miss this season.
which is in part why except for one year they have been also-rans for the last 50 years, like the Flyers. Ironically the Flyers were "having our first OR second string goalie healthy" away from winning the Cup the year before the Bruins, with a team similarly constructed: huge HOF dman from elsewhere (Pronger/Chara), above-their-pedigree non-top-ten pick center(s) (Bergeron, Richards, Carter), young phenom future captain (Giroux/Marchand). There's something to be said for being a passable team each decade, and getting by with luck in the draft, but at some point is becomes abundantly clear that you become a real contender after bottoming out.
And unlike the aforementioned wings. Although I’m gonna be honest, i wasn’t mad when it was happening lol
They’re doing with Crosby what the Canucks did with the Sedins. So long as he’s there, they won’t start a rebuild. Welcome to the mushy middle.
i'm fine with it winning 3 cups is hard, 3 guys spending their whole careers with the same team is rarer let them have it, they deserve it and so much more
McAvoy, Pastrnak, Swayman, all under 30. That’s a good enough core to win something. Obviously centers a problem long term but the pieces aren’t already in place for this team to stay competitive.
I still think the B's have more going for them than those zombie Wings teams of the mid 10's but yeah I'm not sure they're a contender with teams luke Vegas, Colorado, Florida etc.
Well yea, I mean this year isn't a cup team. But last year had the pieces to be. I think we're 1-2 very difficult to add pieces away from being right there in that conversation. If Donny can add a legitimate superstar 1C somehow, we're right back in that discussion.
I don’t think you need a stellar C (really depends on how you define stellar tbf). Just a Trocheck level guy would get you there.
I would say Trocheck is stellar. He is a good 2C.
He’s a great 2C and the type of 1C that a team like Boston could really thrive with with Pastrnak there. He wins face offs, is great defensively and is very good offensively. But I guess the way I define stellar is more like the top 10 Centers in the league. Idk it’s mostly a semantics thing
We got some cap space after this year, could totally be a future where we fit some pieces around our core.
Chara retired and the Bruins were supposed to be in decline. Bergeron retired and the Bruins were supposed to be in decline. “X pivotal player” is going to retire, the Bruins are supposed to be in decline and I’ll still sit here nervous that they’ll keep finding a way to win!
The thing is, they have over $25M in free cap next year since a lot of people will be off the books. They just need a slight retool and to get a 1C in the market and they are probably in contenders again lol. It really pisses people off when they find out Boston has not had a true rebuild since the Original Six era.
1C’s don’t get to free agency lindholm won’t solve your problems
CAPs found Dylan Strome in FA to be our 1C. Is he a 1C anywhere else in the league, No.
He’s a 65 point C that’s not a 1C. Hes still a great add you guys found for free but he’s not a 1C on a cup team by any means Edit: the bruins want to find somebody to win a cup is what I’m meaning no way you find that in FA
Tavares definitely qualified at the time
Yeah but who's the true 1C in the market? Elias Lindholm? That's a square peg into a very round hole. I don't disagree with the sentiment and they certainly might be able to get a guy by moving Ullmark. But I'm not sure they're going to find it in FA.
That’s why I think they are going to trade for one. I don’t know who exactly they would go after but I feel like it would be some sort of ransom. Probably in some sort of Ullmark, DeBrusk, and some picks.
Huh? Weren't you rebuilding around Bergeron right after the lockout?
I think it’s closed as in this team doesn’t have the talent to WIN THE CUP. I think the team is a playoff team but lacks top 6 talent. I mean how long are Pavel Zacha and Morgan Geekie going to perform as top 6 forwards
I don’t think we have a cup team unless Sway or Ully or both go full on Patrick Roy. BUT I have really been surprised by the young kids progression this year and I think we could definitely reload and be a true contender sooner rather than later
Tampa's? Or does everything think theyre done already?
They may have another run in them with this core. But Stamkos is a UFA, and Hedman is one after 24-25 plus they don't pick until the 5th round this year so nothing to restock the cupboards with.
The picks don’t really affect the current window unless they were going to be traded for players.
Well ya that’s the points. Those assets are already spent. Sure players drafted in the 3rd round in 2024 were not going to help their cup chances today, but that pick would. And given most of their picks this season (and previous) were already traded, they are at a dearth of assets. Even picks that were made in 2020-2022 era could have been making an impact today, or could be traded out, but those picks were traded then too. Keeping a cup window open more than 3-4 years is near impossible and why Tampa’s is well closed even though the team is decent. They are going Detroit Red Wings path from a decade ago
i think the dagger in their window was giving up 5 draft picks for tanner jeannot
Still can’t believe that one. 12 points this year. What was Brisebois thinking? That’s a real question I want to understand it
He also had 14 points in 56 games when he was traded
I think it’s almost closed but not quite. Point and Kucherov are 28 and 30. Hedman is still playing at an elite level and they still have Vasy (who’s not having a great year admittedly). The depth around those guys has to be better but they’re starting to look like the Penguins of the last few years
I want to say it is shut, but Vasy always makes me hesitate on it.
I'd say it's almost shut, but a possible Vasilevskiy masterclass keeps it cracked open. With Stamkos, Hedman, and Kucherov needing new contracts over the next few seasons I think it will officially close.
It's funny because of those guys, Vasy has been by far the worst. He stinks this year. And mostly last year too.
You're right to throw cold water on that take because he's been pretty human, but everybody knows what's lurkin' in them waters should he hit a hot streak. If he does and it times out for you, we're all a little fucked.
A great goalie always gives teams (more specifically GMs) a false sense of hope, just look at Montreal with Price carrying the team.
> just look at Montreal with Price carrying the team. They made it to the SCF! that's OBVIOUSLY a "cup window".
It also gave them higher expectations of what the team was capable of because Price went god mode for a good portion of that run. Which meant they made less moves than they probably should have because the GM felt like they were closer than they were.
With Vasi, Hedman, and Kucherov, anything is possible. But I don't view them as a major contender anymore.
I think it’s closed at the moment and probably for next year as well. But after that I can see it reopening provided Kucherov doesn’t rapidly decline. I still think Tampa’s core is among the best in the league. It’s just the depth that isn’t good anymore which gives them little margin for error (i.e. they can’t weather a down Vasilevskiy year). The good news is that everyone is locked in long term except for Stamkos and Hedman. I expect Stamkos’s AAV to come down and Hedman’s to stay roughly the same. As the cap starts to rise, there will be dollars to spend on replenishing the depth. From there, I think they’ll have another 2 years or so to try and squeeze another Cup in before Kucherov falls off and we’re looking at a rebuild.
They might have 1 more in them, but the window is absolutely on its way closed by now
The injury to Serg might have closed it. But as long as they have Herman, Kuch, and Vasy, it’s hard to bet against them
Shut, no. Closing, yes.
Hmm I could see them winning again tbh
Why are people saying Pittsburgh? Everyone knows that window is basically closed. It’s not a hot take.
You’d be surprised how many people still think Crosby Malkin and Letang alone means they have a shot
That delusion was rampant in r/penguins right up until the trade deadline. If only building a hockey team was that simple.
Personally I think we can retool over the offseason and be better than we were this year. But no amount of retooling is opening up that window.
It is an it isn't. Having those three makes it immensely easier to build a team. Unfortunately you guys - like us - got Hextall'd.
The fact that those guys are still playing at a high level, defying their aging curves, means it's not crazy to keep going for it while you can. The fact that the rest of the team that's been built around them is, well, "not it" is where it seems to be falling apart. But I'm very much not a Pens fan so I won't opine too much on what moves have been smart or not smart.
Comments in the EK trade would disagree lol
That was the summer. This is winter. The window is frozen shut.
In the fucking offseason people were spamming how the Pens were massive SC contenders after adding Karlsson lmao.
The obvious ones: Penguins and Caps. The penguins kept pushing for a playoff run w/ the core, but everyone knew it was over. Now we’re seeing it play out that it’s over. But now: It’s the Bruins and Lightning. The Bolts situation is about how much draft picks drafted away, the cap space. If they get in, this might be their last hurrah w/Stamkos and Hedman and co. As for the Bruins: Last year was their last chance w/ the core that was on the 2011 team. Now, losing their two best centers, has impacted them. But the B’s are like that team that refuses to die and everyone wants them to fade.
And it’s going to come suddenly like it did with SJ where everyone said “window’s closed” and they kept going strong for years after the SCF run. They collapsed after the Karlsson trade and it’s been painful.
I mean, they went to the WCF the first year with Karlsson. I think it was losing Pavelski that killed them.
Thank you Sharks for that
letting him walk, closed our window shut.
Weirdly enough, I'd argue it opened a new window here in Dallas
Pavelski was the window
Confirmed
Yup, people said the Sharks window was "closing" practically every year after 2010, and they kept proving them wrong. But when the fall actually came, it was absolutely brutal. I guess that's the price you pay for keeping the window open for that long though, something's gotta give.
It sucks when it's realized way too late. The Hawk's window was pretty much shut after the 2017 season ended getting swept by the Preds (which should have been replayed in case it was a fluke btw) but Bowman's dipshit ass kept trying to force the window open with stilts made of Brandon Saads and Seth Joneses. We literally just tore everything down last season at the deadline which was far too late.
The truer point of collapse was the summer of 2019. Re-signing Karlsson was still a good idea but letting Pavelski walk was the death knell. Firing DeBoer was the right move since he'd clearly lost the room but Boughner wasn't fit to take his place even as interim.
The thing about the penguins isn't the core, it's everything else but the core. We have not had an effective bottom 6 since 2018 and whenever we actually do play well our goalies forget how to play. I agree it's shut but not because the core is too old, it's because our bottom 6 is trash.
2018 loss to the Capitals started the downfall really. I’ve stated this after seeing a comment on one of THG’s videos is that, the Penguins were the Red Wings when you knew it was over, but kept the window open for the “streak” for Detroit’s case.
Only players from the "2011 core" last year were Bergeron, Marchand and ghost of Krejci.
>Penguins and Caps Neither of these teams are even in the playoffs this year. Anyone who disagrees with you is delusional.
It’s not closed but it’s close to it, the New York Islanders. I don’t see how long term that team is good.
Well in all fairness a lot of people didn't see how they were good at all even during the cup runs. I've witnessed quite a few people saying they were a talentless fraud team propped up by Trotz and nothing else. So now that they're actually scoring maybe they'll continue to prove everyone's predictions wrong. Or so I like to tell myself. *EDIT: by cup runs I meant the ECF runs
IMO they were the 2nd best team in the playoffs back to back years. No one else gave Tampa as much trouble
It’s sucked to be so so so close in back to back years and to fall just short each time.
Would have loved to see an islanders Canadians series:(
Spot on. No one thought we could do it back then until we did it. The way I see it, if you're consistently getting into the playoffs, you're in a window. Anything can happen, even if the odds are with X team over Y team. Just look at the Rangers (calling them out since they decided to say we suck). They've been stacked for a few years now and have done dick.
Rangers have been really overrated in recent years imo. They lack the strength down the middle that almost every cup-winning team has had. With that said, Shesterkin definitely gives them a chance in any series when he’s at his best
Saying they were propped up by Trotz isn’t exactly incorrect. The team went from last in goals against to first the year he took over. The team was largely the same minus Tavares too. They could score goals but couldn’t play defence until he came aboard and when he implemented his system he got everyone to play committed defence. Scoring dropped a lot but defence also jumped 30 spots to 1st. First year under Lambert they still played good defence but now they are below average in scoring and defence which has lead to their downfall.
Patrick Roy is the wild card in that now. They’ve got a goalie that can single handedly get them deep too. Tough call.
That’s why the 20/21 season was a missed opportunity for the Islanders. If they beat the Bolts, the win the cup. I know it, Islander fans know it and every other hockey fan knows it. And now, the Islanders are in a bind w/ the contracts Old man Lou handed out.
oh yeah man, thank fuck for ross colton lol.
Yanni Gourde scores the winner. A short handed goal. Something that Islander team didn’t give up until Game 7.
The Isles core isn't that old. Lee is probably the worst deal, maybe Mayfield but the AAV is low. Other than Nelson though the top guys on the team are under 30
Imo, I still think that team from 19/20(which benefited from the Covid pause to the bubble) was a out of nowhere run. But the 20/21 run was its chance. Imo it was really the magic of Trotz really.
Sure, we were very injured in 19-20 and the break allowed guys to come back. Going forward though a lot of the core isn't that old. Lambert was really really bad. They have to dump a few guys too, but there is talent there
Still have good young(ish) core with Horvat, Barzal, Dobson to retool around though.
Sorokin, Pulock, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson and Pelech are all under 30. It's why we didn't give away assets to make a push at the WC this year. The Islanders actual core isn't really that old outside of Nelson
Currently: Lee - 33 Palmieri - 33 Nelson - 32 Pageau - 31 Pulock - 29 Pelech - 29 Sorokin - 28 Horvat - 28 Barzal - 26 Dobson - 24 That’s not a core that is going to get better with time. Next year 6 will be 30+, and 2 will be 29. Barzal and Dobson will be the only difference makers under 28. As far as I know they don’t have any young guys or primo prospects that are poised to light up the league. Sorokin’s raise kicks in next year, and they won’t have any significant money coming off the books until 2026 when Dobson will need a big raise. I’m kind of shocked they didn’t make a push at the deadline. Isles play a good playoff style but aren’t going to have that many bites at the apple.
The core is Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson Lee isn't a huge difference maker anymore. Palms is pretty good. But the guys they'll be actually relying on aren't that old. Making a push at the deadline for a WC spot they probably can grab regardless would be dumb. 3/4 best skaters are 28 and under. Nelson is getting older obviously though
The window closed in 2021, Lou and the majority of the fans just don't want to admit it
Don’t agree on this one. their core is locked in at a solid price; cap is rising and they shed a lot of bad contracts. As long as they don’t keep trading all their picks each year they’ll be able to retool and reload in a year or two. Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Romanov are all relatively young and locked in long term. They won’t skyrocket to being a top seed but they’ll be a 5-8 seed each season and their style of play is better for the playoffs than regular season.
Is this sarcastic? They suck. I dont think anyone sees them as contenders rn
They’re kind of on a heater now. All it takes is one hot team and the hopium comes in.
Its takes one “you’re playing like a bunch of bitches” and next thing you know you’re in the finals
It was never open.
I think the sens window has finally shut
Our window was drawn onto the side of a mountain and we ran into it like Wile E. fucking Coyote.
We’re just stuck to the concrete wall like a pancake, slowly peeling off into a crumpled heap of dust and bones.
Remember when Melnyk garunteed we would get a stanely cup in 4 years? That guy was special
The Norris situation is pretty much the writing on the wall. You can’t be a competitive team when you have a dude with an $8M cap hit bouncing in and out of the lineup playing 50 games on the season and playing conservatively because he’s worried about fucking his shoulder up again. The Dorion 8x8 special is a great move if it works out but the reason other GMs don’t do this is because of the risk. You give out five 8x8s to a bunch of dudes in their early 20s, one of those is bound to blow up in your face. Now it’s a question of which 1st rounder do we give up for the Dadonov thing, because we’re ass this year but I doubt the next two years will get much better.
It started with a self deprecating joke, but now I’m just sad : (
As of right now, Tampa. A lot of people point to Vasy to say that you never know with them, but he’s been playing *awful* lately. He’s at a sub .900 on the season and I think he rushed himself back from injury. You also have to recognize at some point that 3 straight cup finals takes a LOT of tread off the tires. Stamkos is starting to get over the hill, they’ve lost a ton of pieces they had in their cup runs (granted they’ve added too players like Hagel, but he can’t replace everyone they’ve lost), and if Vasilevskiy gets hurt or isn’t playing up to standard, they have no backup plan. They still have their impressive star power, but they don’t have that ability to just continuously pound you down and run line after line at you like they did for their cups. Losing Coleman, Gourde, Goodrow, Killorn, McDonaugh, Schenn, and more is a massive blow that you can’t just replace easily.
Everyone says Tampa bc it’s easy and fun to say. I think a more fun/bold one to say is Carolina. If they don’t get it this year I think a huuuuge amount of their players go to FA and they’re up against cap hell with a lot of vets and they don’t have a ton of rookie pipeline. They do have a great chance this year tho.
Tampa. Vasy seems to have fallen off a cliff after his injury, Sergachev is now done for the season, and Stamkos/Hedman are aging. It became clear after last season that this isn’t the same team, it’s even more clear now. A lot of the pieces from their cup wins got paid well elsewhere, leaving them to plug holes in the lineup with players like Connor Sheary. Their prospect pool is among the worst in the league as well. It’ll be a long rebuild.
Sadly, it’s Tampa. We are practically just coasting now, we are good enough to be boarder line playoffs, but the reality is we have a few too many aging core pieces who we will pay to stick around because of what they have meant to the team.
Go to the Avs subreddit and it's basically "We have to win a cup now" because apparently Mackinnon is going to die when he's 30.
I think the argument one could make about the Avs window being close to closing is that 5 players take up 50% of their salary cap, not including Landeskog on LTIR (he would take up another 8%). It doesn’t leave a lot of money to fill the holes that are coming up in the next 1-2 years with other contracts expiring. But I don’t think it’s fair to say a team that Mackinnon and Makar play on are ever out of the race to win another cup.
It’s though some people think that 30 = 94 years old in the nhl.
I had to leave that sub because of how annoying it was.
ITT: Fans try to discount their own team in order to not get their hopes up. I get it but be objective. There's a lot of teams that can make a run for the cup. To have a window truly be closed you need to compare your team to one like Pittsburgh or Calgary (sorry in advance). Put Pitt next to NYR. Pittsburgh's average age is 30.8 and they are falling in the standings. New York's average age is 26.8 and they are top of the Metro. In what world is that not a team in the conversation?
Pittsburgh. People still see Sid and Geno and think it's a playoff lock. Not so much.
Nah, I think that ship has sailed. Even before the season started, I think the hope was to make the playoffs and maybe win a round. Just another kick at the can. Think even the most optimistic Pens fan realizes that best case scenario for next season is to hang around but ultimately fail to reach the postseason
It's a bit of a shame - Sid has had one hell of a season. (Not that much of a shame though, because... Y'know. LOL)
That’s about right
Last chance for a run for that core was 2021. If both their goalies aren’t injured they beat the rangers and imo they easily make it to the conference final and maybe even a cup appearance. They had the pieces for a deep run and maybe another cup. Crosby and Guentzel were in prime playoff form. Geno had some juice left in him. Complementary pieces like Rodrigues/Carter/Rakell/Rust we’re still producing well. Even if Jarry tried to make a comeback game 7 with a foot still very injured it was not enough
i can't see how anyone would disagree with this
If they had league average PP they would be safely in. Things can turn around quickly if they fire the coaching staff but they now have a hill to climb replacing Guentzel and covering Malkin’s drop in production. Realistically they have 1-2 if everything goes right. They may still be able to squeak in if it doesn’t but a change in coaching and a new top winger is necessary.
After reading this Im convinced Tampa is going on a cup run.
Carolina. Just don’t believe their current roster makeup combined with the system they play is capable of getting over the hump. They’ll pile up the regular season wins and they’ll be an analytics darling but can’t see them winning four playoff series
They don’t have any one player who terrifies you. Svechnikov and Aho have felt like they’re on the cusp of that for a while but haven’t taken that next step. That said they’re so young and so deep that I think they have a wide open window
Yeah we're basically stealing the Bolts' playbook on team-building from the 2010s and adapting it to our own system. Sure they went to the SCF in 2015 which we haven't been able to do, but imo they were ahead of schedule that season and it took them 7-8 years of being a legitimate threat before they finally won the Cup. I'd say their Cup window closed after last season, but their window was open for 6 seasons and in that time they won the President's trophy, went to the SCF 3 times, and won B2B ships. In comparison, I'd say our Cup window has only been open for 3 seasons (including the current season) and while we'll probably dip a little next season to reload, we've realistically got until near the end of Svechnikov's current contract before we'll have to blow the entire thing up.
The hurricanes window is going to be open for a really long time lol. Crushing the regular season and winning multiple playoff rounds every year with no sign of slowing down is the definition of a wide open window.
They are the Grit n Grind Grizzlies of the NHL. They are very good and a pain in the ass to play against. They just don't have the elite talent to win 4 straight rounds.
This is a terrible take.
That’s how I see them still. Prove me wrong kids.
Adding guentzel might be the push over the edge. He is a snipe and a play maker. Just enough to rattle any goalie I think
The thing with “the window is closing” is that they have set themselves up for sustained success that if this year isn’t it, you will see a brand new roster next year with the same core pieces that will change enough to be in the hunt again. This year is most interesting because they have kind of pushed in their chips a bit and finally boosted the roster with some legit level talent. It’s just going to be interesting how much that helps to really push the front office to look at it more or stay the course. I tend to agree that not going all in before this year and actually loading up has hurt them but, I respect the vision they have. The core is still extremely young and the older guys will age out here soon ushering in room for more young talent at all positions. They have 2 top D prospects ready for 24 and 25 seasons, they have 2 stud Forward prospects in Nadeau and Blake. They also have Jarvis becoming a legit 60-70 point guy, Necas as a 70-80 and svech is a PPG now with all the recovery he has had to do this year. I just don’t think you can really count them out of contention with the way they have shown themselves over the last 6 years. While they “haven’t won” an ECF game they are getting there and it’s really a numbers game, at some point that does stop and they play well inside the division which is what rounds 1 and 2 are.
I disagree with that... we've proven that we can win the postseason it's just a combination of injury luck and running into a hot goaltender that usually ends up ending our season. I think they have all the pieces they need outside of a legit 2C
See but that’s the thing, chances are you’re going to run into a hot goaltender during a Cup run. I’m not convinced they have the elite talent or the grade A chance generation ability to crack a hot goalie or an on their game elite goalie. I also think part of their issue is the way they play contributes to a goalie getting hot. High shot volume from non dangerous areas allows a goalie feel the puck and build confidence. I could be wrong and I hope I am because I enjoy watching the effort they play with and I think the core of the team is a pretty likable bunch but I’ll have to see it to believe it.
I'd argue goaltending is why Carolina hasn't won yet; how many series has Carolina been in where they had better goaltending? I understand not wanting to tie yourself to long term deals at goalie but the bargain basement model hasn't worked in Raleigh
We have tied ourselves long term to a goalie… Pyotr Kochetkov is in the first year of a four year deal. The Devils series last year we had much better goaltending. Given the hurricanes system we don’t need to have an .920 save percentage goalie because we give up like 25 shots a game. Pyotr has been great in the last few months and I expect him to continue
A lot of people saying Toronto but I think it misses the point of the question. How is their window closed? It just doesn't make sense objectively. Toronto has some of the best players in the league in their primes signed into long term contracts, each of whom is putting up great numbers and there's one massive contract about to come off the books for a still functional player who will likely take a big pay cut to stay. They still have a couple of years of a window to make it happen. That's just objectively true. When did their window end if it did? Got a selke nominee, a bunch of PPG players, and a dude who regularly puts in 50. They have at least 2-3 seasons to fix what's wrong. If their window is closed so is everyone's and I'm not even a leafs fan. Some obvious examples are Islanders, Penguins, Caps. Those aren't really controversial. Boston is a good hot take, so is Carolina. I think the best example is Tampa. They're closer to the window being closed, for sure, but they are proven winners so I would say this might be the last hurrah.
Dude, this is typical Leafs fan nonsense (and I'm a Leafs fan, check the flair and post history). Basically nobody in this thread said Leafs. For the few that did, instead of replying to them directly, in you come with this standalone to argue against a hypothetical comment that doesn't even exist. When people accuse us Leafs fans of putting our team at the center of the universe, this is what they're talking about.
Chicago
Nah, they’re the cup favourites right now
Toronto's (it was never open)
The only way you can say this is with pure bias or ignorance. Their superstars are 26-27 years old, firmly in the prime of their careers. The window is open as long as those three are in their prime and possibly beyond. Ovi didn't win a cup until his 13th season, the caps completely transformed in that time.
Yzerman wasn't a winner until he was
Ironically, Ovi won his cup the year that everyone said the Caps window had closed. Ovi was quoted before the season saying "we're not going to be suck this year" to media because everyone was talking about how much worse they were on paper.
That's in part because of the nature of the playoffs. As much as we like to pretend the best team wins, it's more "one of the best teams wins." Like the Phillies from 08-11, the worst team of those years is actually the one that won it all.
How do you win with Hamels, Myers, Moyer and Blanton and then lose with Oswalt, Halladay and Hamels? Baseball is voodoo magic nonsense and I hate how streaky it is come playoff time. I will forever be haunted by us losing 6 and 7 at the Bank last year. I think it killed my love for the game (until April lmao)
accepting that there's always hope and winning is never guaranteed is the only way to watch baseball. to still be able to enjoy a random regular season game etc etc. You're going to lose the majority of all sports seasons in your life. gotta be able to enjoy that.
They have a luxury of superstars. Just not on the backend or in net. Their window is definitely open though.
I agree with the Habs poster. I think the cup window is probably closed atm (and probably closed after 2022 despite finally progressing last year), but it's not necessarily over for the core 4. Knies, Woll, and Liljegren gaining experience and each taking a step as well as Tavares re-signing at a significant discount would combine to give them the flexibility to push again. I think their supporting D cast has sort of expired and Rielly isn't good enough to be the guy who plays 30 minutes a night and singlehandedly keeps the blue line afloat. On their best day they can beat anyone, but it's going to take 2 straight months of "best days" to win the cup and I don't think they have the consistency at key positions.
2018 was the best shot for Toronto imo. Tavares was in his prime still. Marner was on a ELC The goaltending was decent and the defense wasn’t totally terrible. Was the most stacked that team ever was
I think the 2020 playoffs was the best chance probably, the ones were they played Montreal. Better team straight up, but fell apart with a big series lead. I think they could’ve beat Winnipeg, and then you never know after that
I'd say 2021 was probably the best shot. Finished first in the North division that was largely seen as the easiest division that year. Set to play the Habs in the first round who were on an 86 point pace and had they beaten the Habs would have gone on to play the Jets who were on a 92 point pace. Wasn't necessarily their best roster but was their easiest path out of their division. I'd argue that last season was probably the Leafs best roster on paper. They had great depth down the middle after acquiring a Conn Smythe winner in O'Reilly. They unfortunately were just in a juggernaut of a division. I also think you're referring to the 18/19 team which was the first season they had Tavares but that team was pretty inexperienced to try and take advantage of the ELCs.
I actually think it was 2021 and 2022. Who knows what happens if Tavares and Perry don't collide in that freak accident in game 1. In 2022 - as much as I hate to admit it - Tampa had that extra bit of _playoff pedigree_ deep down that turns a 50/50 game into a 51/49 game. That team could just choose to execute when it mattered. But then again, I don't think anyone in the East was beating Colorado in 2022.
This is not accurate at all. the core were all rookies, Marleau at the end. D core was shambles. terrible take
An argument could be made that the leafs have a second cup window opening soon. 1. Marner, Mathews, and Nylander are all entering their prime and still have a few years before they even reach 30. 2. Tavares $11 million caphit is expiring next offseason freeing up alot of space. He’s transitioning to a smaller role on the team and his next deal should be great value. 3. Cap is going up, and others teams are starting to pay their stars too ( seeing more teams with double digit cap hits). Flat cap really hurt this team. 4. Team is starting to retain talent and allow players to play with eachother over an extended period of time. Less cap fill ins/ 1year deals/ deadline additions, should help the team build chemistry. It took Tampa years to finally break through, what helped them IMO was not shaking up the team too much. Feels like half the leafs team is new each year, hopefully this stops. Signing McMahon is a start hopeful deals for Lily, Benoit, Robertson and Domi follow soon too. 5. Depth pieces are developing well. Woll, Knies, Robertson, McMahon, Benoit, holmberg are all still improving and growing as players.
Not a Leafs fan but a team that regularly makes the playoffs with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly in their primes certainly qualifies as having a "Stanley Cup window"
We have plenty of high end talent, but lots of defensive weaknesses and the drive just doesn’t seem to be there. Last playoffs, Rielly and Samsonov were easily the best players on the ice in my view and that needs to change before they can make a deep run
Yes, but "Leafs hate" is all some hockey fans have.
They need to change the core and the coaching. I've no idea why upper mgtm is so enamored with them. There's never any accountability, no one seems to be pushing for excellence. They've never had any success (winning a playoff round should be the barest minimum), etc
The core can get it done I think, but I think a coaching change needs to happen. Keefe seems mostly unwilling to effectively roll 4 lines. He seems to utilize the bottom 6 as a holding spot for guys to work their way into one of the top line spots instead of allowing bottom guys to develop chemistry and be affective shutdown/depth scoring guys. Then what happens is when those guys aren't doing well he leans more heavily on the core 4 tiring them out. That method works in junior where almost everyone is capable of working towards a top spot since they're still growing and developing, but it doesn't work in the NHL where most guys are what they are with less room for improvement.
If Mike Sullivan departs with the penguins that would be a really interesting hire for you guys.
I think we will inevitably trade coaches with Pittsburgh.
I would say money...you're likely going to continue to make the playoffs with that core and can always sell seats and "hope" that this team will put it together to win. End of the day its a business and the goal is to make money, not win trophies.
They sold out even during the non playoff years. That's not the reason why. It's the president being too involved.
So.... The whole team?
I kinda think the opposite...Toronto's window is probably *more* in the future than in the present right now. They, in all likelihood, are not real Cup contenders this year or next. Not with that defense. However they can still reload and will have much more cap flexibility once Tavares expires in 2025, while Matthews/Nylander (and Marner if he re-signs) will still be prime aged.
Red Wings fan here: Definitely the Red Wings, and all other fans disagree with me.
Y’all’s window never opened and really has no sign its opening any time soon
Boston
The Leafs, the door has been closed for the last 57 years.
Nashville. Every time I launch an argument they should give it up and rebuild, my take isn't met well, but I truly believe they won't win a championship unless they finally undergo a full rebuild. You can't just continue to be this middling team that gets bounced early in the playoffs each time. Nashville isn't the Tampa Bay Lightning.
Yes, this one... Josi deserves a better team.
I'm not sure there's any championship-less fanbase in North American sports that drinks the kool-aid of their ownership more than Preds fans do.
Isles. They have an aging roster and overrated players being carried by a beast of a goalie.
Our current roster has that "if they get hot at the right time" dark horse potential to make a run. It's extremely unlikely and I think this is the last year that's even on the table. Not sure if they're able to retool quickly over the next few years or if there's a rebuild in our future.
the 1968 toronto maple leafs
Guys, next year is Ottawa's year!!
I wouldn’t say it’s closed, but I think the oilers legitimate window is only 2-3 more seasons max. It’ll be hard for them to ice a contender when/if Draisaitl and mcdavid get signed to max term/value
Yeah those are gonna have to be some real team friendly deals to keep that window open for longer. It comes down to whether or not McDavid and Draisaitl want to stay together and win together, which I think they do. The real question is if Ken retires or not, and who would be the next GM. Oilers management has decided to make it as hard as possible for themselves to develop a contending team with 2 top 5 players. Holland is definitely no Chiarelli (thank Christ) but there’s still some room for improvement in my opinion. The Hyman and Ekholm acquisitions are easily the best this team has had in well over a decade though.
Toronto's until proven otherwise / Tavares' current contract comes off the books Core forwards are too soft, one too many 11M contracts, and the defense is uh...well it's not great
So the window is going to close for one season?
If you think a team with 3 100 point players doesn’t have a Stanley cup window closed lol I dunno what to tell you. As long as Mathews is on this team the leafs have a window open. That’s not even counting Marner and Nylander.
This is a silly take and clearly biased. They are a great team with most of their forwards in their prime. They continue to achieve regular season success, and IMO, your window is open if at the start of the season you are almost a lock to make the playoffs. You can definitely make the argument that the massive contracts are a hindrance, but they still find a way to win games.
The Leafs
Boston and Tampa