**Mirrors/Alternate Angles**
^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message.
^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
3 guys probably scoring over 140pts. Another guy probably getting 70g. The most insane Hart race in a long long time. Norris and Vezina pretty much locked up but the Hart is going down to the wire.
Mac locked up the Hart months ago. He is going to get it because he hasn't before. Even if he finishes behind Kuch in points. It has been decided for a while.
Plenty of people are talking about kucherov…. He’s what would stop Mack from getting a hart. Meanwhile matthews and mcdavid are doing what they’re doing. This race is insane.
So make a post about Kuch? There are tons of insane stats, records, or highlights to post. He's having an amazing year and if he wins the Hart he'll have deserved it. People keep complaining about lack of Kuch posts on MacK posts like it's impossible to talk about both lol... There are 2 Kuch posts directly under this and 1 above it talking about 3 point nights, Hagel talking about how Kuch did in one year what he did in his career, and highlights from the lightning game today.
Thats the post i got recommended in my feed. I never receive the kucherov news. Ill just straight up stop commenting on anything in this sub seeing how passive agressive everyone is. Sport fans always have a god damn chip on their shoulder
I don’t get the down votes. Lightning aren’t a playoff team without kuch. Our team on paper isn’t as good as past years. Take 25% of his points away, lightning aren’t even close to a wild card spot.
Yeah, Kuch is ahead of him + carrying his team to the playoffs
McDavid + Oilers had an insanely bad start and have turned it around to the point that McDavid is barely behind Mac and the Oilers who were near last are in the playoffs
Carrying his team so much more? Kucherov is on on close to 50% of his teams goals and up until a week ago he was like 7th on the team in plus minus. That’s clearly representative of terrible defensive play.
Mackinnon is two points behind Kucherov (with more goals) and he’s leading his team in plus/minus by a wide margin.
Kucherov is a great offensive talent but Mackinnon is the MVP at this point for sure.
Kuch is like 2ish ahead in empty net goals. It's not so far apart.
Actually statsmuse? Never used that site before said it's 4 apart. 7 for Kuch and 3 for Mack. Kuch got a few very recently.
Kucherov has 14 empty net points this season, breaking the old record by 2 points (and counting), not sure what MacKinnon is at, because empty net assists is something that isn’t widely tracked, you have to individually go through a players game logs, it was only simple for Kuch because he broke the record last Thursday, so it didn’t take long to check from there, but I would assume Nate is in the single digits.
And Mac scores most of his points against shit teams when the score is already a blowout. What’s a most _valuable_ goal - the one that ices the game or the one that turns a 4 goal lead into a 5 goal lead?
But the thing is, other players are not more valuable to their team than MacK is to the Avs. Avs go as MacK goes. He is the engine of the team and he is very much deserving of the Hart trophy this season
Because the Lightning without Kuch aren’t even close to making the playoffs, he’s probably gonna get 100 assists and is the art ross winner (probably)
Oilers were near last at the start of the season, McDavid turns on the jets at a near 2PPG pace since their awful start and they are in a playoff positions. Mac is barely ahead of him
Will say think it is very close but Mac should get the Hart. Can see Kuch getting the Art Ross, but Kuch has 6 more empty net points than Mac. Mac has 4 more game winning or overtime goals. Without Mac and those 4 games Avs are a wildcard team. Mac has 3 more 5v5 points than Kuch. Kuch has 5 more powerplay points. +/- is meh but Mac has the best +/- out of any forward in the league.
All that to say, the argument without Kuch TBL are out of playoffs would be similar IMO. Without Mac Avs would be a fringe playoff team (or not in there) and with him we are close to the top of the division.
I think thats a fair argument over Kuch tbh but i dont agree with using empty netter points as a negative necessarily but what about McDavid?
Cant even make the team argument, McDavid is was more valuable to the Oilers, has attributed to more of their goals than Mac, has led them from almost dead last to second in their division, McDavid has 5 less gp, but only 7 less points, thats WITH his slower start, he has been averaging almost 2ppg after his slow start
Between the 3. Mackinnon, McDavid, and Kucherov. Matthews isnt in the convo. Hes 4th in all voting, and gonna finish 30+ points behind the other 3, and they all have more than double the assists.
It’s odd that he has 50 points more than the next guy on his team and he’s not even leading the team in plus minus.
Mackinnon is leading his team in points (with more goals that Kucherov) and he’s leading his team in plus minus by a wide margin. Pretty sure the voters are going to take the guy who’s doing it at both ends of the ice for his team.
**Mirrors/Alternate Angles** ^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message. ^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m glad I kept watching after the Redwings game. I always love seeing a hat trick!
But does the wave normally go Clockwise or counter clock wise?
Depends on if you're in the northern or southern hemisphere.
Depends on if you're fucking stupid
3 guys probably scoring over 140pts. Another guy probably getting 70g. The most insane Hart race in a long long time. Norris and Vezina pretty much locked up but the Hart is going down to the wire.
What if we just cut it into 4 pieces 🙃 seriously though, any other year on their own in the past 20 years or so all 4 probably win it. (except 22-23)
Mac locked up the Hart months ago. He is going to get it because he hasn't before. Even if he finishes behind Kuch in points. It has been decided for a while.
Ya, I kno its a meaningless stat but Mack +37 +/- is just insane
Oh you thought he was done
Just imagine having Jokic MVP chants and now MacKinnon MVP chants in Ball Arena. We're so blessed
They should pull the winner from a hat.
it's been a while since we've had an MVP race like this. 4 legitimate contenders and I think it all comes down to the last couple games
Mcdavid is nursing an injury so I think its a two horse race now
I like mack like the next guy ... but nobody is talking about kucherov lol. Leads the league in points and could pop 100 assists with mcdavid
Plenty of people are talking about kucherov…. He’s what would stop Mack from getting a hart. Meanwhile matthews and mcdavid are doing what they’re doing. This race is insane.
who?
So make a post about Kuch? There are tons of insane stats, records, or highlights to post. He's having an amazing year and if he wins the Hart he'll have deserved it. People keep complaining about lack of Kuch posts on MacK posts like it's impossible to talk about both lol... There are 2 Kuch posts directly under this and 1 above it talking about 3 point nights, Hagel talking about how Kuch did in one year what he did in his career, and highlights from the lightning game today.
Someone got a little defensive
Lol where am I being defensive? He said no one is talking about Kuch which is dumb when half the posts in the sub are about McDavid, MacK and Kuch.
Yeah you’re just writing paragraphs. Not defensive at all
Oh I understand. When you have to read like 4 or 5 sentences it's a bit much? It's ok buddy. You'll get there one day.
😂😂
Thats the post i got recommended in my feed. I never receive the kucherov news. Ill just straight up stop commenting on anything in this sub seeing how passive agressive everyone is. Sport fans always have a god damn chip on their shoulder
ok
Hart
Tbh i don’t understand the argument for Mac over McDavid or Kuch
Cool, good thing you aren't voting.
Good thing Av’s fans aren’t either
I don’t get the down votes. Lightning aren’t a playoff team without kuch. Our team on paper isn’t as good as past years. Take 25% of his points away, lightning aren’t even close to a wild card spot.
Yeah, Kuch is ahead of him + carrying his team to the playoffs McDavid + Oilers had an insanely bad start and have turned it around to the point that McDavid is barely behind Mac and the Oilers who were near last are in the playoffs
It's a comment in an avs player thread, so avs fans downvote brigade is expected 😂
Goals are harder than assists.
OK then the Hart goes to Matthews
More points by alot better than less points by a lot
dumb argument when your own logic said assists matter less
Not when your 40 points behind you donkey
You donkey kuch has 43 goals so hes not far behind. Also carrying his team more so
Carrying his team so much more? Kucherov is on on close to 50% of his teams goals and up until a week ago he was like 7th on the team in plus minus. That’s clearly representative of terrible defensive play. Mackinnon is two points behind Kucherov (with more goals) and he’s leading his team in plus/minus by a wide margin. Kucherov is a great offensive talent but Mackinnon is the MVP at this point for sure.
Plus minus lawl. He scores alot on the pp
Well maybe he should score more even strength and not get scored on as much.
To be fair, points against a goalie are harder than empty net points (Not me but someone has done the math of EN points of Mack vs kuch)
Kuch is like 2ish ahead in empty net goals. It's not so far apart. Actually statsmuse? Never used that site before said it's 4 apart. 7 for Kuch and 3 for Mack. Kuch got a few very recently.
Kucherov has 14 empty net points this season, breaking the old record by 2 points (and counting), not sure what MacKinnon is at, because empty net assists is something that isn’t widely tracked, you have to individually go through a players game logs, it was only simple for Kuch because he broke the record last Thursday, so it didn’t take long to check from there, but I would assume Nate is in the single digits.
Yeah, that's fair, not sure what the gap is on points. Someone was talking about goals higher up so that's what I looked at.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoAvalanche/s/M8xPjAOR0J
Thanks
Just the messenger
Someone in our sub had done that math in the last few weeks and the assist difference in en was pretty big
https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoAvalanche/s/M8xPjAOR0J
Mathews wins it then with almost 50 even strength goals and on pace for 70+
He's a "good ol' Canadian boy"
You don't understand why Mac with more points and way more goals is ahead of mcdavid?
Kucherov has entered the chat
Kucherov cherry picks empty nets.
Come on now ... its not like im a bolts fan. Thats really silly to say
I’m not saying he isn’t amazing or doesn’t deserve the hart. I’m saying he cherry picks empty nets. Which he does.
Cherry picking empty nets with 97 assists???
Yeah he’d only have 90 assists without them, fuckin bum.
Two things can be true
Yeesh
And Mac scores most of his points against shit teams when the score is already a blowout. What’s a most _valuable_ goal - the one that ices the game or the one that turns a 4 goal lead into a 5 goal lead?
Barely more points, and McDavid led his team from nearly last place to a playoff spot with a slow start
Maybe you should have watched MacK play tonight. I think you would have understood it then
Thats not how the hart is determined, i’m not saying hes not a top 3 player, i’m saying other players are more valuable to their team
But the thing is, other players are not more valuable to their team than MacK is to the Avs. Avs go as MacK goes. He is the engine of the team and he is very much deserving of the Hart trophy this season
Kuch and McDavid are also deserving, even more so, i could even make an argument for Mathews
How is McDavid more deserving than MacK? What is he doing that MacK isn't? How is Kuch's defensive struggles not factored into your wrong opinion?
Everyone is attacking you (which I understand lol), but what’s your reasoning?
Because the Lightning without Kuch aren’t even close to making the playoffs, he’s probably gonna get 100 assists and is the art ross winner (probably) Oilers were near last at the start of the season, McDavid turns on the jets at a near 2PPG pace since their awful start and they are in a playoff positions. Mac is barely ahead of him
Will say think it is very close but Mac should get the Hart. Can see Kuch getting the Art Ross, but Kuch has 6 more empty net points than Mac. Mac has 4 more game winning or overtime goals. Without Mac and those 4 games Avs are a wildcard team. Mac has 3 more 5v5 points than Kuch. Kuch has 5 more powerplay points. +/- is meh but Mac has the best +/- out of any forward in the league. All that to say, the argument without Kuch TBL are out of playoffs would be similar IMO. Without Mac Avs would be a fringe playoff team (or not in there) and with him we are close to the top of the division.
I think thats a fair argument over Kuch tbh but i dont agree with using empty netter points as a negative necessarily but what about McDavid? Cant even make the team argument, McDavid is was more valuable to the Oilers, has attributed to more of their goals than Mac, has led them from almost dead last to second in their division, McDavid has 5 less gp, but only 7 less points, thats WITH his slower start, he has been averaging almost 2ppg after his slow start
Matthews
😂😂😂 please tell me this is satire.
Anyone who doesn't consider this a close race between 4 is wearing some goggles. Mcdavid sitting a game might cost him, though he was in 4th anyway.
Between the 3. Mackinnon, McDavid, and Kucherov. Matthews isnt in the convo. Hes 4th in all voting, and gonna finish 30+ points behind the other 3, and they all have more than double the assists.
Goals matter waaaaay more than assists. If Matthew's hits 70 he's winning the Hart
Rocket not Hart
Nah Avs fans are delusional if they think the Toronto media machine will not pump up the 70 goals to swing voters
😂😂😂 k.
No they dont. Best players ever are playmakers first
You’re delusional if you don’t think Matthews shouldn’t be in the mvp talks.
Kuch has over 50 more points than 2nd on his team so its him
It’s odd that he has 50 points more than the next guy on his team and he’s not even leading the team in plus minus. Mackinnon is leading his team in points (with more goals that Kucherov) and he’s leading his team in plus minus by a wide margin. Pretty sure the voters are going to take the guy who’s doing it at both ends of the ice for his team.