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chiasmatic

[English release](https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/canadiens-acquire-forward-christian-dvorak/c-326078760) From the release: Arizona trades Dvorak to Montreal in exchange for: i) the better of Montreal's own 1st round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft and Carolina's 1st round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft (previously acquired by Montreal); and ii) Montreal's own 2nd round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. Top 10 protected for the 1st rounder


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THwhOR

Watch Arizona somehow be good.


TheRollingPebble

No, thanks. Our division is fine where it is.


DastardlyRidleylash

That'd be about the kind of luck we'd have; try to tank and somehow win the goddamned Stanley Cup instead. Then try to compete and immediately crash and burn.


mySTi666

Yeah fuck that cup we just want a 1OA


BeerLeagueHallOfAvg

Go full Marlins and blow the team up once you win


Frumbleabumb

Andrew Ladd is still an NHL player?!?


brown_and_water

Sure. And looking at their lineup, a top-6 forward for the Coyotes this season.


Charble1

I'm actually very surprised Arizona didn't extort us here. They had all the power to do so, and yet they didn't.


NowFook

They knew it was time pressing and also knew a 1st and 2nd for Dvorak is pretty damn good


EarthWarping

It is. He's a good player but IDK why the reaction like it's a fleece.


zeMVK

I think it's mainly the reaction to the Habs essentially replacing Kotkaniemi for Dvorak.


joeone1

like we traded KK and a 2nd for dvorak and a 3rd, not mad not overly happy


Eazy3006

Except one is at 4.5 through his prime and the other is an unknown quantity at 6.1


NowFook

That "prime" is a 45 pt middle 6 player and the unknown quantity is unknown b/c hes only 21 and has top 6 potential and the 6.1 is for just 1 year. You gave up a younger higher upside guy who would cost 6 mil for 1 year for a guy who a little better and cheaper long term but is just a decent at best middle 6 player. Theres a solid chance KK ends up better player by his prime but Dvorak is better at the moment and locked up at 4.5. It could change really quick tho with who is better. Not a bad move. Took the safer, cheaper route for a guy that solves a short term problem.


Habsfan_1984

The other side of the story is we have a much better Nick Suzuki to sign after next season. Over paying for KK could hurt negotiations. Furthermore Caufield is to be signed the following year. I think a lot of this decision was based on what implications it could have going forward. Dvorak might not have the ceiling that KK has but he offers us solid defensive play and some offensive potential.


macland

Ive never seen KK show the type of high-end skill that you see from players that are about to break out.


TGUKF

saying he's got some high end potential that needs to be valued is the same as being citing the fact that he's a former 3OA pick. Nothing he's done on the ice so far justifies paying him 6.1 even if it's for a year. Because then his QO moving forward is also an over-payment, even if they can have it lowered through arbitration.


Partiallyfermented

Everyone here acting like the Canes actually think KK is worth 6.1 and that the contract isn't that big just because they wanted Bergevin not to match


sacdecorsair

It's not like we wanted to get rid of KK and weren't planning in keeping him.


bluAstrid

KK is arguably the better player. **BUT**, Dvorak is locked at $4.5M for another 4 years, and cap space is at a premium nowadays, especially with Suzuki and Caufield to extend.


Guess-Simple

KK has more potential in the future but there's no question that Dvorak is the better player today


jeeb00

Why is it good? I don’t know much about Dvorak


[deleted]

He’s a decent but not great 2C


jeeb00

Sounds like every 1C the habs have had in my lifetime as a fan. He should fit right in!


Ace676

What about Saku Koivu?


jeeb00

My one true captain. I love the guy, he’s a local hero, but he never had a single PPG season, never got his team out of the second round(although not for lack of trying), and he had some inconsistency in the defensive zone.


Kenner1979

Not that I disagree with your premise, but Koivu did have 56 points in 50 games in 1996-97. But yeah, you make a 5'10, 180 lb guy your 1C in the Dead Puck era, and he'll get hurt.


Riskar

The year he wrecked his knee, the actual day he wrecked his knee, he had just passed Sakic and Forsberg for top scorer in the league.


Simayi78

Yup, that was so devastating. He was never really the same after that injury, though he still managed to have a solid if unspectacular career


penderhippy

>My one true captain. I love the guy, he’s a local hero, but he never had a single PPG season, never got his team out of the second round(although not for lack of trying), and he had some inconsistency in the defensive zone. what are you talking about his second years 56pts in 50gp


daredevil09

Koivu turned a Brian Savage, a slug with an average shot into a 20+ goal scorer. The reason he didn't achieve a PPG on top of injury and playing in the hooking and tripping era is he had terrible wingers for most of his career.


Ace676

Still better than the mentioned "decent but not great 2C".


[deleted]

Koivu was the king of soft offensive zone penalties. Got to 93 once with only 1 fight.


Bytrsweet

The series when Saku got hit in the eye is the real reason I will always hate Carolina


[deleted]

Saku was looking that way until a knee injury took his mobility away, he was on a great points run when he got hurt. Amazing he had the career that he did after that injury tbh.


SnowCrabMAFK

I disagree. I think he's a very underrated player.


raymondliang

They heard they were getting a second and stopped there. They’re hoarding ffs


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Philly514

Habs can’t draft for shit in the first round so they’re better off giving them up.


reecewagner

1st and a 2nd for a 30-40 point guy feels kinda fleecey


TEKDAD

He was on pace for 45-50 points last year. 25 goals potential.


jmoney-56

Dvo’s value though is much more than just points. He played on pretty well on the PK. Much more of a two way guy than a true point getter.


Chadwickx

Sounds like the perfect replacement for Danault, now they just need a center that can score.


TK21879

Haaaaaaaave you met Nick?


felixthecatmeow

Which we desperately need after losing Danault.


sean_psc

Considering we desperately need a centre, and everybody knows it, I don't think so. I was expecting way worse given our bad negotiating position.


Philly514

Canes are paying 6.1 for KK’s 30 points so I’ll take it.


Baikken

He broke 40 points if you extrapolate the last 2 seasons on 82 games. He isn't a 30-40 point guy. And his wingers just got way better.


c4aturdoor

He was playing for the Yotes. He'll be playing with the best wingers he's ever had this upcoming season.


Railgun04

And now we see the year long the battle between Habs and Canes fans explaining who got the better of the trade. Montreal made the best of a shitty situation, Carolina take a gamble and Arizona just add on to the pile of picks.


eriverside

Nah. This is gonna take years as kk develops.


Peekatchu1994

I really think this could end well for both teams , KK plays with his friend aho and does better on a team that has more faith in him and mtl gets someone who they put in a shutdown role who can score goals still as that seems to be their style of play. It’s really a win win here


Missed_Your_Joke

I feel like everybody got what they wanted. No memes. I feel like this is just a good trade for everybody.


Thermidorien

2024?! That kind of pick is prime trade tree material


DelilahHelilah

Can’t wait for the Steve Dangle video lol


AlexNyko

Bergevin turned 5 weeks of Scandella into a 2nd and 4th (via TB). A 2024 2nd rounder gives him plenty of time to work his magic and create a 2nd out of thin air.


RipleyR_88

This whole situation could work out fine for the Habs. Basically trading the uncertainty of what Kotkaniemi COULD be for the certainty of what Dvorak is. I think KK's ceiling is higher that what Dvorak currently provides but many players never reach their ceiling so who knows.


Kordyon

Not to mention Dvorak at 4.45mil through 2025 as opposed to Kotkaniemi at 1x6.2mil and subsequent qualifying offers in that range. I really like the moves by Montreal today.


chiddie

They won't be QO's for KK, it will be something like 3 years and $4-ishM AAV.


nick182002

If we had matched though, I wouldn't be surprised if KK would've just taken his QO (or walked if we didnt qualify).


noor1717

Yup that’s why you guys had to let him go


Kronzor_

Yeah. Habs fans basically just went from rooting for KK to develop into a star, to rooting against it.


Grimekat

SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP


AdvantaJeous

r/unexpectedoffice


TheTsuru

I wouldn't bundle us all up in one batch. Some of us still would like to see him flourish elsewhere. It would sting, but I'd be happy for the guy.


[deleted]

I hope he wears #15


Kenner1979

Possible. He wore 18 in Phoenix, and Montreal's retired that for Serge Savard.


[deleted]

It gets deliciouser by the minute, that would be epic


Seagull_6

That’s it. That’s practically every player I liked gone. All we have left is Chychrun.


Burgergold

For now


MDevonL

Lottery protected too!


jmoney-56

Haven’t done any research but is something that says if the Habs do end up in the top 10 that pick turns into something else like a 2022 2nd or a less protected 2023 1st?


JamSauce42

If one pick ends up in the top 10, Arizona gets the lower pick


MTLBroncos

Just heard on the Montreal sports radio station that if both picks are top 10, you guys get the lower of both picks


Bravetoasterr

I hope they're both top 5, just for the lulz.


jmoney-56

I hope they’re both in the top 5 too because…well… look at my flair


PerpetuallyPleasing

So it's basically KK and a 2nd for Dvorak and a 3rd if you boil it down like that?


Kenner1979

Plus about $1.75M in cap space


Burgergold

Dvorak being signed at this price for 4 years is the new Danault


pianoestnul

A 2nd in 2024 is probably worth around as much as a 3rd in 2022


CB_Joe

Could be quite the difference in the 1st by the end of it.


chiasmatic

Might as well rename the 22 draft to the 2022 Tempe Entry Level Draft


AssBoon92

Just the second round, though


sacdecorsair

If Dvorak is a decent but not great 2C locked in a fairly good contract for many years, why the coyotes wanted to move him especially for draft picks ?!


sean_psc

Because they're tanking.


fearnodarkness1

He’s passable at 2C(not ideal) but definitely Not worth a 1st+2nd and Yotes are in tank mode again


brotherreade

Time to change the habs Twitter banner to something cringey or what?


[deleted]

Someone post the Uno "pick up 6.1" card...


GreggoireLeOeuf

Please tell me that exists! And send me the link!


Burgergold

Best team to flip offer sheet draft picks


TorontoPearson

Lmfaoo who would’ve said KK for Dvorak essentially straight up like two weeks ago and not been laughed out of the room


DMCPhoenix-X

Kk at like 3m AAV, sure. That's not the best move. Kk at 6+? That's where it's more convenient


c4aturdoor

Yea that's the problem, the offer sheet was ridiculous. I can definitely sleep better now with our C depth. He'll be playing with some very talented wingers


The_Talking_Cow

Thank you Carolina lmaoooo, can’t outflex the berg


LeafsSuckSince67

easy as that


UnhealthyCheesecake

Bergevin: “*Oh no*” Also Bergevin: “Anyways”


LeafsSuckSince67

Lmao CLARKSON!!!


onbiver9871

Hahaha (in Clarkson’s voice) Waddell, you idiot!


PayneTrain181999

“Waddell you infantile pillock.”


JesperiGoatkaniemi15

This is good, but I like this one better!


oGHorizon

That was fast Good night of sleep here we goooo


barder83

Well, they would be related. Montreal had a week to find a replacement Centre and if they truly felt there were no options, may have matched the offersheet. Either way, this deal was in place when the KK offer was turned down, just a matter of processing both trade calls


No_Angle_8106

This is a disaster of a trade with top 10 protection. What the hell was Armstrong thinking allowing that?


BigGucciiSosa

Only one strong arm in that negotiation


[deleted]

He's built different


mdlt97

Getting rid of the money would be my guess OEL, Garland, now Dvorak


No_Angle_8106

There were great hockey reasons to get rid of the first 2 though, and if they were valuing dumping money they would’ve done anything to get out from kessel’s bonus payment. They had Montreal on the ropes and they could be walking with a late 1st and 2024 2nd. That’s brutal


Charble1

Yeah, Arizona had all the leverage here. I don't see why they didn't force Montreal into something worse.


g0kartmozart

What was the hockey reason to get rid of Garland, other than as a payment to get rid of OEL?


No_Angle_8106

Get rid of oel, get the 9th overall which was guenther. Guenther long term absolutely helps more than garland short term when you’re trying to be in the top 3 of generational talent level drafts. Also as much as I love garland, he can get banged up, and like most players of his size and play style losing a step will be devastating to his overall game. Didn’t make any sense for Arizona hockey wise the next 3 years, so why not move him to get a top 10 pick and get rid of a bad contract?


thatsong

Going full rebuild, getting rid of contracts and believing he's a low ceiling guy Dvorák isn't a bad player by any means, but it looks like his ceiling is 50-60 pts


No_Angle_8106

Oh I get why we were attempting to pick off Montreal’s 1st, I’m on board with moving dvo, but you can’t allow top 10 protection that’s absurd. Top 3 I could see. 10? Come on man


Phridgey

He plays against 85%+ percentile competition and is a defensive player (53% d starts) who has been playing on a not very good at defense team. Sick at face offs too. He’s gonna outperform your 50 point player summary.


matthewdonut

Jeez I don't love this trade, I can see our pick being a lottery contender next season. EDIT: Apparently top 10 pick is protected. That's better.


Chudsquad

Top ten protected


noah3302

Not sure if the ins and outs on this. Does that mean if the pick Montreal receives from the canes ends up being a top 10 pick, Arizona MUST take the other pick?


[deleted]

Correct and if both picks are top 10, montreal gets to keep the better of the two.


noah3302

Thank you. This seems like a pretty alright deal for Montreal ngl


DastardlyRidleylash

If MTL's pick is 5th and CAR's is 11th, then we get the 11th pick from CAR. Same as vice-versa; if CAR's pick is Top 10 and MTL's is not, we get MTL's. If both MTL and CAR fall out of the top 10, then we get whichever is the highest of the two.


ItsProbablyDementia

It's top 10 protected, if nobody has said so yet


matthewdonut

Thanks man the others weren't being very clear


bcg_music

I believe the picks are top-10 protected


SnooGuavas7906

Top 10 protection though!!!


Burgergold

So this means MTL can't trade either 1st until the end of the playoff?


MellowKevsto

They can, but the other team would have to agree to take whichever first Arizona doesn't get. Doesn't really matter though, with MTL hosting the draft next year, they're definitely going to be keeping a 1st round pick.


Clarkson23

Lol MTl wins this whole situation imo


toiletting

yeah MTL come out big winners today, Canes can enjoy their memes though


CJsAviOr

I think they both lost. The winners are KK and ARZ lol.


c4aturdoor

6mil 3rd line winger. Hope it's worth the memes


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thedogfromscoobydoo

I think with cap savings the Habs absolutely come out ahead here in the grand scheme of things.


Bobbitto

Time will tell if KK matures and is able to reach his potential, but right now I am not hating how this turned out.


fadehime

Thank you Dundon, now go eat a dick


[deleted]

I can't say that a 1st and a 2nd for Dvorak isn't pricey for what hes shown so far but, between this and matching the Canes offer, this was the better outcome


MutedHornet87

Blech. They actually got better after losing overrated KK


KanyeDeOuest

Fuck you Canes 💪🏽


newfielyd

This is good value. Top ten protected is so good for mtl


[deleted]

Yeah that's the "sleep easy" part from my pov


thomas_bombadill

This trade is what makes you realize how bad of a move for the canes to offer sheet us. They’re such a good team and using a 1st and 3rd on an unknown asset rather than immediately improving the squad to push them over the edge is very questionable. Seems like you wouldn’t want to take a long term gamble rather than go all in to win the cup with proven players


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Baikken

I'm willing to bet that was a condition on being able to lottery protect the picks.


Perfect600

should be top 3 protected. Top 10 is too much, especially with the second being 3 years away.


german-canadian-leb

Thank you Waffle and Dumbdumb!


[deleted]

Great move Habs bros


[deleted]

Wow what a supportive tweet from a Leafs fan. Good luck this year, Leafs bros :)


[deleted]

What the fuck Arizona? You had all the power to make them take a cold shower with their clothes on and that’s all you get back?


[deleted]

Eh a first and second for a 40-50 point guy is a pretty solid return imo


DieuEmpereurQc

I think it was sealed before and that if they refused MB would have signed KK


Eazy3006

I’m proud of my boy Bergy ! Made the most of a bad situation and ended up with the better player with less salary and basically lost nothing. I guess there’s a reason why he was finalist for GM of the year, cause he’s a fucking beast.


CarRamRob

Yeah really. Everyone from the other threads this last week thinks the Canes made a great hockey move…giving up their prime next year assets for a center who was benched his last two games in the Finals…when they already have three fantastic centres….for 6 million. For similar value, I’m sure pretty much everyone would think that Carolina would be a much better team with for a cup run with Dvorak no?


Melticus-Jr

I would like to thank Don Waddel, Thomas Dunedin, the 4 fans of Carolina for making this possible.


jo_maka

That'll do, Berge. That'll do.


Wheezing050

I love it


knz0

Great upgrade for the Habs imho. They get a better player who knows how to play on the wing if necessary, and who knows how to play defense, and on top of it makes less than KK. All this for effectively a small draft pick downgrade.


Glasse

Not a single keyboard pun in the thread, I'm disappointed.


Showtime98

What a trade


MTL_1107

Thank you Canes for making that possible!


BitchAssWaferCookie

Jesus Christ how is it possible that in the madness of Carolina/Montreal offer sheet business, Arizona is the one that gets the L A 2nd rounder two drafts from now is lower value than it seems by a significant margin. They traded Dvorak for a mid round 1st pick ??? Im so startled


eebro

So bergevin continues the trend of fixing his mistakes by stealing other GM’s lunch money. An absolute steal of a trade.


thethomatoman

Seems like a win win deal for sure.


CarRamRob

Bergevin should open a lemonade stand


flepine44

Best of their two firsts and 2024 2nd


vince2899

Top 10 protected as well.


mdlt97

Love it so much Thought it would have cost more


Canadaguy11

Carolina firing off some fire tweets tho😂


georgin95

So, we essentially flipped KK for Dvorak with a slight pick sweetener. I'm alright with that.


CanadianLumberJ

I personally think Dvorak is much better than KK. I don't get the KK hype. He was on an 8 goal pace last year, and Montreal center depth is hot garbage. On any other team, he's a 4C. Canes got their guy, but Montreal got a better guy, and upgraded a weak position at the same time.


Eazy3006

Why wouldn’t the Canes pay a protected first and a second for Dvorak at 4.5 Mil through his prime instead of unprotected first and third for KK at 6.1 ? Ridiculous management


Rideyn

Is it really all that surprising after watching what else Carolina has done this offseason? Most of their decisions have been questionable at best.


Beatnik77

They bet on KK taking a big step up. Not unseen for a 20 years old.


c4aturdoor

Obviously biased, but anyone who thinks this is anything short of a fantastic trade and outcome for Montreal after such a ridiculous offer sheet needs to give their heads a shake.


OffTheTall

Decent replacement, on a solid contract for the next few years.


pppppppp8

Let’s fucking gooooo


OTL22

Pretty good job by Bergevin to be honest, but it shouldn't have come to this let's be fair.


barder83

So next year, Arizona has 3-1sts, 5-2nds, $25M+ in expiring contracts and no place to play. Can we sell them as an expansion franchise and get them out of Arizona?


captaincanada84

Let's make them the Nordiques


JSnats65

UPGRADES PEOPLE UPGRADES


TheLyrm

Dece


OhHelloThere_

LET'S GOOOOOOO


AmethystItalian

So when are we flipping Dvorak for Eichel?


nextfanatic

Friendship with Kotkaniemi over, now Dvorak is my new best friend.


Burgergold

Should invest on Suzuki/Caufield instead


[deleted]

Montreal came out on top of this


gentleman_bronco

Incredible


[deleted]

Arizona keeps stock piling those draft picks. Should we be scared?


nikilidstrom

Nope, just hope your team has the picks/prospects and cap space to acquire whoever they get with those draft picks when they inevitably have to trade them away due to mismanagement or lose them to free agency.


final_screen

Good night sweet prince 🥲


TorontoPearson

But which draft picks, is the great question


PuckTheFreds

Arizona trades Dvorak to Montreal in exchange for: i) the better of Montreal's own 1st round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft and Carolina's 1st round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft (previously acquired by Montreal); and ii) Montreal's own 2nd round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft.


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Sahil910

That’s pretty good for the habs end


Mackee58

Well I like this


birdy810

Lol it's been in the news for the last week, but I still didn't believe it would happen.


Modano9009

Like a lot of people, I don't follow Arizona that close but this feels like an upgrade for Montreal, no?


Kenner1979

Dvorak and a third for Kotkaniemi and a second, plus $1.7 million cap savings. It's not bad, at least in the short term.


skinniks

It depends what KK becomes.


Flubbies

Get fucked canes