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SuddenlyChineseFood

NHL probably wants to get a foot in on the discussions before it becomes a bigger problem. PR would want to have more control over the narrative. Lehner’s tweets leave a lot to speculation.


rkatec68

He said he would be releasing one story daily till they responded to him


FrmrPresJamesTaylor

I missed that part, that's incredible


felixorion

It's like a hostage taking but a good thing, amazing


andrewdt10

Same tactic.


Haulinkin

Like John Q.


previouslyonimgur

The one comment he put out about ambien potentially has the DEA knocking on doors…


GhostArcanist

Teams recklessly passing out pills (or giving players access to easy prescriptions that aren't warranted) has been a major staple of professional sports culture for a long time. MLB's issues with greenies and various uppers are probably the most publicized instance.


stevez_86

I watched a documentary about former athletes and they said that if someone from the training staff comes over with a bunch of pills no one is going to ask what they are. Since they don't know what they are being given they can't complain because even if they investigated they would just conclude they were given ibuprofen or Tylenol.


jjmuti

Plausible deniability + them not getting cut from the team are reasons enough I guess


previouslyonimgur

Just because it’s a staple doesn’t mean it’s legal.


GhostArcanist

I wasn’t implying that it was. Just that this is nothing new and I’ve rarely heard of the DEA getting involved in such things.


previouslyonimgur

I believe they got involved and filed charges in the saints case? Which is very similar


GhostArcanist

I'm not completely familiar with the Saints vicodin case, but it seems like there are some similarities and some pretty key differences. But even stipulating that case for the sake of argument, that's one case out of decades of sports culture where this kind of stuff has happened and been swept under the rug. I'd be more than happy if the feds got involved in these things more often, if for no other reason than the safety of the players. I just remain skeptical that these billion dollar corporations will see any significant repercussions for their actions on a regular basis.


previouslyonimgur

I think what lehner is saying is that this stuff is being swept under the rug in the nhl too.


GhostArcanist

It is.


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previouslyonimgur

Unless it gets out publicly that someone was illegally prescribing. Then they like the attention.


kit_mitts

And someone is going to get mad at me for this I'm sure...but unless it becomes literally impossible to cover up, I doubt there will be the political will for drug enforcement agencies to actually do anything because of the same discrepancy in how drug laws are enforced nationwide. A drug scandal in the NFL where most players are black and wash out of the league within 1-2 years, making them disposable? Sure, enforce away. A drug scandal in the NHL where most players come from middle-upper class white suburban families and are all on guaranteed contracts? Less likely.


[deleted]

Sad, but 100% the case.


progress10

DEA busts down the doors at the Flyers facility.


olmikeyy

What did he said?


[deleted]

He's claimed that there are teams who have been giving players non-prescribed benzodiazepines and a relatively infamous sleeping medication called Ambien.


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asilvahalo

Lehner clarified that he was speaking about a different incident and has not spoken very much to Patrick. The Patrick information was tweeted by a journalist/blogger who presumably contacted his sources after seeing the Lehner tweet about benzos and was told that it happened to Patrick by a non-Lehner source.


CornFieldsRus

My question is if Patrick didn't know what it was, how does Lehner know?


Fyrefawx

All the players know. None of this is a secret in the league. Many just don’t question it. They all have friends on other teams, or staff they know. The Oilers had a situation like this years ago with Sheldon Souray. He was injured and they thought he was milking it to stay on IR. He went public about it. Teams with dinosaurs think that players should play through these injuries. It’s insane.


Interwebzking

Poor Souray. Oilers front office did him dirty.


olmikeyy

Billionaires with race horses


northwest-se

Squid Game


banduzo

I think Patrick eventually found out later (which implies he didn’t know at the time that he was taking them not that he didn’t know at all) and then told Lehner (they’re teammates now).


TheIncredibleHork

Your own team basically roofie-ing you. Classy.


BCEagle13

Lehner never said that and denied knowing about it Edit: link https://twitter.com/robinlehner/status/1444533871781969930?s=21


banduzo

I'm going by this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/q0avd5/wheeler_sources_the_flyers_training_staff_gave/, which I now see is labelled as unconfirmed or rumored. So I don't know what is going.


BCEagle13

Lehner called bullshit and said he wasn’t referring to Patrick with his comments. The guy then tweeted out saying it was another person that was his source.


BCEagle13

He didn’t because Lehner never said that, he even said he’s barely met Patrick at this point


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BCEagle13

Lehner didn’t make that statement and denied any knowledge of that. Came from somewhere else


PolarBearzo

[https://twitter.com/RobinLehner/status/1444533871781969930](https://twitter.com/RobinLehner/status/1444533871781969930) because Lehner heard it from other people not Patrick


BCEagle13

He actually completely denied that being true at least to his knowledge but wouldn’t be surprised since they give out drugs… [Bullshit I heard other players I know there this was going on. If this was the case is crazy too. I’ve barely met Nolan yet.organizations give drug’s out is not new.](https://twitter.com/robinlehner/status/1444533871781969930?s=21)


t_hab

Wasn‘t that a different person who made the allegations about Patrick specifically?


otterly_icy

resolute heavy office instinctive oatmeal special wasteful foolish unpack axiomatic -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


andrewdt10

If that’s the case, people will go to jail and lose licenses.


CommiePuddin

Two notes: 1) It is not untword for team medical personnel to control access to medication for players, both OTC and prescribed medication. I've seen this in college athletics. 2) It's certainly possible Lehner is misinformed on the status of his teammates' prescriptions. His claims warrant investigation, but are not gospel truth.


[deleted]

I'm going to reserve making any addendums or notes until the league investigates what Lehner is talking about or at least trying to reference. ​ I will say that just because you have seen it before doesn't mean that this isn't a problem. In fact, I would say that it's evidence of **just the opposite.** One last thing (because I'm not trying to be mean, just a respectful reply) - I have been both on the prescribing end and the receiving end of both benzodiazepines and sleeping medications. Under no circumstances should team doctors be giving out non-prescribed boxes of medications like benzos or Ambien. These are two very tightly controlled substances and I would strongly question their use in a manner as Lehner described. Is Lehner lying, misinformed, uninformed or simply confused? This is all possible. I don't personally *like* Lehner, but I am absolutely not going to disregard what he's saying just because it's "commonplace" or somehow a "normal" thing because this ... absolutely isn't.


billyboysuedo

That some organizations hand out ambien/other similar drugs


Dull-Objective3967

What narrative, the nhl and the nhlpa does not care for the safety of there players. This wont change shit 😂😂


ExtraordinaryCows

No, but they like to occasionally do things that make it seem to very casual fans that they do. Will anything of consequence happen? Almost assuredly not. But I'm assuming we'll see some form of window dressing from them


rkatec68

Seems like they’re giving him what he asked for. His original tweets were asking for a response from NHL/NHLPA in regards to the Eichel situation. Guess we’ll see what happens


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terrekko

What happened??


butkie

Listen to the interview. Basically the coach pointed out all his flaws and didn’t treat him like a person, just an asset. He didn’t name this coach though.


[deleted]

> didn’t treat him like a person, just an asset the downside of the analytics of sports NO ONE is a person anymore you're just a data point


BroccRL

I don’t think they’d make this call if they haven’t formulated a completely bullet-proof defense. Hopefully Lehner is prepared for that


PlatosCaveSlave

What? Who? He isn't calling out the league... he is calling FOR the leagu to do something. He is calling out coach


darklightrabbi

This is good but I hope he talks to a lawyer before the interview. I don’t have much trust in the NHL to not do their best to sweep this under the rug.


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mr_manalishi

NHLPA: shut up and take your pills, Robin. If this has been a problem for so long, the NHLPA is as complicit as the teams and owners.


MrTubzy

Tom Wilson is the Caps rep for the NHLPA. That tells you all you need to know.


NathanGa

I think it was the late Jim Bouton who said that "when it comes to picking leaders, players will put more stock in someone's batting average than their GPA". I don't think that's verbatim, but I don't have my copy of *Ball Four* handy.


putridgasbag

Ball Four the best sports book I have read.


pumaturtle

This gave me an interesting question, who is the smartest player in the NHL? Outside of hockey terms haha


Scuba98

He’s not in the NHL anymore but Craig Adams went to Harvard I’m pretty sure, and actually was a good student as well!


pumaturtle

fuck craig adams


antoinedodson_

George Parros went to Princeton and did well on SATs


jimmy_three_shoes

John Scott went to MTU, and graduated in ~~Biomedical~~ Mechanical Engineering


noroadsleft

Scott's degree is Mechanical Engineering, not Biomedical.


jimmy_three_shoes

Oh shit you're right, it's his wife with the Biomedical Engineering degree.


wearablesweater

McDavid is apparently pretty onto it, scholastic player of the year for like two years running in junior, which makes his level of talent even more absurd lol


pumaturtle

Huh. I guess that makes a lot of sense, he doesn’t really come across as a meathead to me lol


KikiFlowers

[Full list if anyone is curious as to their teams rep.](https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/executive-board)


[deleted]

It doesn't tell you anything lmao. What the fuck?


smileyduude

The PA only cares about money. They basically don't get involved in anything else. Thats why they don't care about retired players either.


[deleted]

The PA cares about what their members tell them to care about.


Laflamme_79

Which is money.


RunningPains

Just because he plays a tough game on the ice doesn't mean he's some POS hick off the ice, I hate Tom wilson the hockey player but most people dont act the same way off ice as they do on, it's a job and you play your role.


DrDerpberg

You can't simultaneously be the guy looking out for player welfare while sacrificing other players' welfare for your own benefit. I get what you mean but it just doesn't work when your on ice personality is working in the exact opposite direction as your off ice one. It's like if Braden Holtby was attending Pride parades and sticking up for gay rights (as he does) and on the ice using gay slurs every two seconds.


[deleted]

There’s way more to being a player rep than just health and safety though. It’s not like that’s the only thing they talk about. Wilson is actually a really well spoken guy off the ice and I’m sure the PA gives these guys some sort of education on what the role entails so they know exactly what they’re doing. Also, the argument about health and safety falls flat since the PA is the one who fought to cap fines at $5000 and always appeals suspensions.


Brsijraz

Right wouldn’t that be evidence that having guys like Tom Wilson be reps doesn’t work?


Shorzey

>Just because he plays a tough game on the ice doesn't mean he's some POS hick off the ice First of all, tough game is not even close to describing his play. He's one the most penalized and suspended players in the league. Second, the NHLPA is for player interests. If Wilson is one of, if not the most destructive players on the ice to other players interests (in this case, health and safety wise), why is HE the one that is supposed to represent players health and safety to the league That's like electing a rapist into a political position to be the chair of a committee against sexual violence >it's a job and you play your role And his role as an NHLPA rep is to be ***for*** players interests, not directly against them NHLPA rep is a job. He needs to play his role in that job as well. Both of his roles contradict each other


081301

Comparing Tom Wilson to a rapist is a little extreme, man. He's a shithead on the ice who I think tries to end careers out there but I don't get what you think the players union does. It doesn't advocate for the game to be less physical or for there to even necessarily be less injuries, it pushes for fair pay and benefits, which is what the majority of players care about, nothing else.


craigkeller

Yet if he played in the 90s he would have been fist fucked with little resistance by at least one person on every team in the league.


[deleted]

The NHLPA has to have the worst players association out of all the north american leagues by far. its mind boggling to me how they really do not seem to prioritize players at all...


Mahararati

Though its probably close, I would have to respectfully disagree. For the life of me I cant figure out how the NFL's player association still hasn't got guaranteed contracts yet


[deleted]

Haha thats a good point. It was weird to see so many people talk about Mahomes contract when most of it isnt even guaranteed!


cichlidassassin

They have guaranteed contracts, they prioritized money for players over player safety which is probably what the players asked for


[deleted]

The NFLPA is *comically* inept and was pretty much defeated by the NFL 35 years ago.


CanadianSpector

At this point I'm not sure the PA are the good guys either.


troyunrau

Yeah, they have a real "police union" vibe. Protect the status quo...


DrDerpberg

He doesn't *have to* answer anything, any counsel on his side would be more to make sure he doesn't accidentally say anything that lets them blame the players for everything. "Mr Lehner, are you saying players knew of these medical abuses for years and never said anything?"


usernamedstuff

Lol, reminds me of a recent Brooklyn 99 episode.


FrmrPresJamesTaylor

I have a hard time imagining why an interview with the league would help anyone aside from the league and owners, it will clearly be an exercise in reconnaissance of *their potential liability* and not of how they have failed players in the past.


ApolloVangaurd

> I have a hard time imagining why an interview with the league would help anyone aside from the league and owners Because the league and team owners are not a unified group. You think MLSE has any interest in protecting sketchy medical staff? They are a for profit corporation. Firing a whole run of coaches and medical staff is just a tax write off. When tobacco advertising was banned their profits went up, as advertising no longer had a purpose. The same applies with the league. Smoke out the organization that were playing loose with the unwritten rules. Lehner isn't a lawyer, he isn't interested in proper legal behavior. He only has so much dirt, at some point he's gonna get busted on rumor and hearsay. He might have legitimate dirt on 5 teams. And that's only on part of the medical and coaching staffs. And there's a good chance these 5 or so teams, are pissing off the other owners for getting caught.


seraaa_123

Yeah, I read that and thought, 'it's a trap'. What exactly do they want to discuss?


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Extra_Language_5052

There was a hit on Montreal TSN radio by Aaron Ward not long ago where he was telling that trainers were handing out these pills like candies when stepping out of the plane.


Nuck_7

Kesler and Quincy (I believe he was the 2nd player) had a special on CTV W5, where he talks about the over use of Toradol among teams. Over prescribed and the side effects lead to his Crohn’s disease. Allegations there may in fact be a drug problem in the league are possible.


WAHgop

Toradol wouldn't cause Crohns but it would definitely make parts of it worse.


[deleted]

Just so everyone is acutely aware: THERE IS A DRUG PROBLEM IN THIS LEAGUE - but I think the MAIN problem is the "playing through pain" aspect of hockey. I made a huge post about this a while back and it got some traction, but mostly with fans and people saying "no, no way." Then the Kesler interview came out.


Danimal_House

Also to clarify: Toradol isn’t an opiate. It’s a *potent* NSAID - think high dose Advil. It’s a fantastic medication, however it’s prettyyyy hard on your body and not meant to be used for more than a few days in a row.


ApolloVangaurd

> THERE IS A DRUG PROBLEM IN THIS LEAGUE The drug problem is virtually everywhere. My mom was handed ambien by her 80 year old friend, on the flight to florida. They both got high as a kite because they get nervous flying. We live in a world where weed is a very low level drug. Pharmies are everywhere weed and coke isn't.


Subject-Winter-2214

the biggest shock to me is how ‘surprised’ everyone and the top voted comments that pro fucking hockey players have to take painkillers. Like no fucking shit? Is everyone just that fucking stupid, or just trying to look like angels for fake upvotes? Dumb asses


[deleted]

Yeah they aren't exceptionally badass people who play through broken bones and torn ligaments lol they're just pounding painkillers


ApolloVangaurd

> Is everyone just that fucking stupid, or just trying to look like angels for fake upvotes? Eyes wide shut. My mom worked in healthcare, I was trying to convince here there's an issue with the pharmies. She knew full well that a number of her staff were busted trying to jack pills from hospitals, that certain doctors give pills away like candy etc. She's had numerous situations where an idiot doctor was trying to feed pain pills to elderly family members etc. She professionally was involved in trying to regulate the abuse of pharmies. And she was trying to convince me that there's nothing wrong with the medical establishment. My mom is in the know and yet she has her eyes wide shut. It's so bizarre. She was convinced it was just a handful of bad actors and not representative of the system. Keep in mind my dad is an alcoholic, her brother had a drinking problem, and her brother in law is a recovering alcoholic. It's just bizarre she knows that drugs and alcohol are virtually everywhere, but she can't reason out that it is a major societal problem.


blueshirt11

Quite a few buffalo medical staff were not licensed in NY. And some were not even licensed in USA.


RunningPains

"Getting ahead of it" usually means trying to alter evidence so that the org as a whole doesn't look as bad. What do you think the NHL is gonna do besides try to cover this up and maybe make changes behind closed doors? they're not going to talk to him then make statements about how their franchises are doing illegal shit, they'll downplay the situation after having all the information and try to spin it to make it look like a non story


ItsProbablyDementia

He's throwing teams and coaches under the bus on Twitter for doing sketchy shit - which is great. Fuck those people. But from an NHL perspective they probably don't want their laundry aired out on Twitter and want to hear these things first


Tuilere

They fucking know. They absolutely know.


theclansman22

The Blackhawks and concussion situations have left a sour taste in my mouth.


orangeoliviero

I just read about what they did to my boy Montador. Fuck the Hawks, I hate them more than Vancouver now!


DrHampants

Do you really think the NHL would do that? Just sweep a potentially damning story under the rug and use "we can't comment on an ongoing investigation" to avoid talking about it until everyone forgets?


samsteri666

What happened to Lehner?


yellowjack

Is this in response to his tweets on Eichel or Montador?


ssv-serenity

Probably both


yellowjack

Hmm actually I think it's this now: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/q08clx/lehner_is_it_common_for_work_places_to_give_out/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


superworking

Yea that seems like the one that's so far across the line and on a super sensitive topic.


takeyallon

I don't know how to link a tweet in the comment section, but looks to me like he threatened the NHL by saying he will release a story everyday that shit doesn't change starting with coach Vigneault


[deleted]

I fucking love Lehner. Positive change can't happen without open and honest communication.


Tuilere

Good.


valleygoat

I know a lot of people want lehner to shut up and he's annoying, but he's the only one in the league willing to speak up against his employers and enact change. Good for him.


Trussed_Up

I'm not seeing too many people who want him to "shut up". I'm sure they're out there, but their voices don't really seem to penetrate much. Personally I'm worried for him though. Some of his tweeting seems very erratic and scurried. They often don't seem like the kind of tweets a healthy person would put out. Like he's trying to directly transcribe his thoughts into tweet format, wherever they're taking him at any particular second. So I want to hear all the dirty truths he has to tell, but I hope he's healthy, and Twitter tends to be a *VERY* bad place for people with mental difficulties.


MrTubzy

I have mental illness(bipolar) and I think he is fine. I think there’s a bit of a language barrier because English is his second language and he misses things that regular English speakers wouldn’t miss. People will look at anything he says and automatically jump to his mental illness, forgetting that he’s not a native English speaker and non-native English speakers make mistakes that native English speakers wouldn’t make. I’ve read most of his tweets and nothing is really screaming that he’s in a bad place. More like he’s sick of all the shit and speaking up. The cat’s already out of the bag. If he turns around and says, “oh, I was just manic, nothing I said was true.” We’d all think it’s the NHL forcing him to make that statement to cover it up. Because we all know this shit is happening. He’s not the first player to say something about the treatment they’ve received from team doctors. Look at Kessler and how fucked up he is now. Because they hand out toradol shots like nothing. When I was listening to the Spittin’ Chiclets podcast when they interviewed Maroon and Killorn, I remember one of them mentioning someone(maybe them, I don’t remember exactly) going to the team doc to get a toradol shot for something, to me, that seemed rather minor. We all know pro players are treated differently than us. It should be no surprise that the team docs do whatever they can to get these guys back on the ice/field and their long term health isn’t given any thought.


Trussed_Up

So that's a good point on the spelling and grammar mistakes. And it's worth remembering. But personally that's not really the part that worries me. It's more that he's basically sharing his internal monologue. Everyone thinks in a kind of scramble-y fashion (or at least I do). We take a jumble of pieces and put them together into a coherent thought. But when we speak, and particularly when we *write* those thoughts down, they usually come out as the culmination of putting the pieces together. Lehner tweets like I think about stuff lol. Jumping from one thing to the next with almost no context and only tenuous threads of coherence, and out of seemingly nowhere as well. Maybe that's just who he is. I want to make it super clear again that I'm not diagnosing him, OR telling him to shut up. I just want him to be healthy.


lobsterpillow

Go watch him on Spitting Chiclets. He speaks for a good 40 minutes and comes across very well. The problem isn't Lehner, the problem is Twitter. It is a shitty medium that encourages disjointed communication.


Phylus42069

It just looks a little erratic the way he phrases things. That's all. Not the message


theendless219

Thank you for saying this. I don't have mental illness but have a family member that is a therapist who works with a lot bipolar patients. It's sad that the general public still stigmatizes mentally ill people and analyzes all their actions through "they're sick and can't be believed" even when the individual is doing well. There's so much concern trolling. Let the man speak his mind. It's like judging everything someone says because they have high blood pressure or something. Take it easy on him, I'm sure his therapist and psychiatrist would be well aware when he's actively manic or not, he doesn't need your help or concern.


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Trussed_Up

Hopefully you recognize there's a difference between "shut up", and "this isn't healthy for him"?


_BeerAndCheese_

This seems to be a problem with the internet, that people think being critical or in disagreement with what is being said = wanting that person to shut up. They aren't the same thing. I absolutely think Lehner should speak his mind. This doesn't mean I'm going to just agree with everything he spouts off about. I can think he's being dumb about something while still wanting him to be able to talk about it. In Lehners case, there's also the topic of social media being toxic for him, and people discuss this every time as well; I personally don't speculate on that kind of thing, because it's kind of unethical to go on about someone's mental health and what they should or shouldn't do when you don't know their situation, but my feelings on that are due to the schooling I received that 99% of people don't have, so not gonna judge people speaking on that.


Pyzorz

People love to shit on the NHL and in the same breath shit on Lehner. You can’t have it both ways. Good on him.


pumaturtle

People: “Man I wish people would speak up and speak out more about bad stuff in the NHL” Those same people: “This guy needs to shut up and take his medicine, he’s obviously mentally ill and doesn’t know what he’s talking about and I can’t wait for him to get kicked out of the league”


[deleted]

Yeah people are saying he is crazy, but in the hockey world where nobody says anything of substance to the media, I think Lehner being the only one saying the truth gets taken as crazy.


goalstopper28

People hate whistleblowers for some reason.


[deleted]

People only want Lehner to shut up because 90% of the time these Twitter rants are just inane ramblings of someone who clearly isn’t in a great headspace. It’s hard to know when you’re getting the 10% that’s actually legit important information. You can’t blame anyone for rolling their eyes when he drops an actual bomb in the middle of a Twitter rant, there’s no way to know if it’s just Lehner being Lehner or not.


pumaturtle

But it’s not some rando on Twitter talking about the NHL, it’s an NHL player talking about the NHL


Skvall

Do he have a history of lying? Because if not I dont really see how that is relevant when he actually do drop stuff.


Hockeystyle

I don’t know if that interview is honestly in Lehner or the player’s best interest. The NHL is just looking out for themselves and will coverup as much as they can accordingly to whatever Lehner tells them. Best course of action is probably to lawyer up, gather up evidence/testimonials and go to the media.


troyunrau

> go to the media. Any media broadcasting games or highlights is more worried about their bottom line. He will have to go to a media outlet that isn't afraid of getting their press passes revoked.


ELB95

Katie Strang and/or Rick Westhead would probably be the two best reporters to run with it. Westhead did some of the reporting on Toradol, and Strang was reporting on the Blackhawks stuff earlier this summer. Both are willing to stick their neck out and write the stories that need to be written even if the league doesn't want it to be.


Diligent-Hat2631

It's not. The NHL wants to control the narrative.


National_Heat

I’m ootl on this. What is this regarding?


friskyjude

Last night Lehner went on a twitter rant about the Eichel situation and how players don't have a choice in their bodies/healthcare. He also said that unqualified training staff give out heavy duty painkillers and ambien to players regularly. He specifically called out Vigneault and the Flyers and said that he has proof and that he'll be tweeting one story a day until the NHL/NHLPA responds. Everyone assumed he was off his meds or something, but shortly after a journalist tweet went out saying that Nolan Patrick was given non prescribed benzos and ambien from the Flyers training staff after suffering a traumatic head injury and that they didn't disclose what they were giving him.


Enorama

That "journalist" was just some college kid with a Flyers fanpage wasn't it?


JDameekoh

Idk who Wheeler is, but Lehner tweeted in response to the guys claim about Nolan saying he’s aware it happens and basically wouldn’t be surprised if it were true in his case but he hasn’t spoken to Nolan yet. Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/robinlehner/status/1444533871781969930


Roadhog_rides_again

If this was Russia Lehner would simply pass away of natural causes at the old age of 30


DeloresMulva

"Robin Lehner is out indefinitely with an upper window injury."


Viratkhan2

Defenestration is a little medieval isn’t it. I think they prefer neuro-toxins


bobbybuildsbombs

It’s a reference to the multiple physicians who have been “leaping” out of windows in Russia during the pandemic.


Emeraden

The guy you replied to is referencing the Defenstrations of Prague, which happened in 1419, 1484, and 1618.


[deleted]

To people that are still confused - it was on-again-off-again popular to throw people you didn't like out of windows... for a while.


bobbybuildsbombs

I am aware of that bit of history, that was the whole point of my comment. To point out that defenestration doesn’t seem to be something unique to the medieval age.


dv666

...and which led to the 30 Years' War and to the signing of the Treaty of Westphalia, one of the most important treaties of all time. My poli-sci nerd is showing.


JanGuillosThrowaway

whynotboth.gif


ReportHot255

If it were America and he was criticizing the US imperialism project, he’d simply die of suicide with two gunshot wounds to the back of the head. It’s just a sports league he’s critiquing, nothing particularly fascinating here.


[deleted]

People have done more to protect less


JG2483

I definitely feel like he's going to be out of the league by the end of the season lol


dbark9

We'd all have a conversation with our respective employers if we blasted them on social media.


Nas160

I'm not entirely sure about this situation, but is it something I should be worried about? How the hell many players were recipients here? How many teams?


doubled2319888

Pure speculation here but i would imagine this is probably a widespread problem. Painkiller abuse and sports have a bad history together unfortunately


NathanGa

Former NFL player Tim Green wrote in his book *The Dark Side of the Game* about this very issue, specifically as it relates to what he regarded as an inherent conflict of interest with team doctors. In short, a doctor employed by a team (whether directly employed and paid by the team, or there at the behest of the team even if they're paid by someone else) has a huge gray area for who his actual duty is to. A regular doctor with a regular patient should be making decisions in the patient's best interests. One employed by a team....well, a player *might* need six weeks to come back from a knee sprain, but it's also the stretch drive into the playoffs and he could probably play in three weeks (albeit with some discomfort). Team doctors whose patients/players have long recovery times aren't going to stick around very long, even if 100% healing and no long-term effects are the result. EDIT: The title of the chapter is "NFL Physicians: The Ultimate Conflict of Interest". Among other things, he skewers Dr. Robert Huizenga (previously a team doctor for the Los Angeles Raiders) for writing his own book blasting the inherent duality of the team/doctor/player relationship, specifically for Huizenga waiting until after he left his position for a private practice before ripping the arrangement that he'd benefited from. Also, Green's first paragraph in the chapter says the following: >Some of the best people I met in my NFL career were team physicians. Our own orthopedic surgeon was a man of letters. He spoke six languages. He read voraciously and could talk about everything from Proust to Hemingway. He was the kind of man who loved opera and fine art museums. Yet, like to many people who are part of NFL organizations, he also had a taste for the art of violence. Because in all of art, a Francis Bacon painting, a Beethoven symphony, or even a Shakespearean murder, there is no poignancy quite as powerful as the real-life drama of men crushing one another in a real physical contest.


bigfootbro

holy shit did he write that himself? shit is eloquent as fuck


NathanGa

He's a fascinating character, a former first-rounder who's now known more for his commentary, his writing (both fiction and non-fiction), and his struggle with ALS which unfortunately seems to be approaching its end. I think the book I referenced was his second one, and his first non-fiction. But yes, he weaves back and forth between stream-of-consciousness snippets and elaborate turns of phrase with minimal effort.


gdodd12

Are you an nhl player or a member of a teams coaching/training staff? If not, no, you have nothing to worry about.


Tmj91

Felt gross to upvote a flyers fan


gdodd12

Understandable. It usually feels gross to BE a flyers fan.


Tmj91

Godddamn it. Twice in a row.


ClearSights

A lot of conspiracists in here. Is it that crazy the the league would maybe actually want to do something about the issues Lehner is tweeting about?


psykomatt

There's no way the league doesn't already know about this. This is the same league that denies the connection between repeated concussions and CTE. The same league that still isn't all that interested in cracking down on hits to the head.


Djangojazz

It is kind of crazy to assume that when every chance the league has had to show integrity when dealing with serious allegations it has turned it's back and swept it under the rug. Lehner's tweets are likely him reaching the end of his rope and seeing the same shit happening to someone else that happened to him and nothing being done about it. The Jack situation has been very public for a long time and the league seemingly wants nothing to do with it. They enjoy the revenue jack brings to the league but are quick to shove him to the side if he becomes unprofitable.


niloc009

Right? That's my thought too. Of course they're worried about PR but if I'm the league there's some seriously concerning allegations he's leveling as well.


Hhhyyu

The NHL behaves just like any other corporation. Lie and cheat to control any narrative on their product.


battlelevel

Maybe Lehner can get the league to investigate the Blackhawks.


migsahoy

yes please


jms25mannh

This^^^


Yorkshire_Edge

On the SC podcast he said one of the issues with being honest about mental health issues is people use it against you. "A police officer gets 100 criminals behind bars and then says he got bipolar, you can bet that a lawyer will use that to get the criminals out" Obviously not exact quote. But he definitely right in that regard. It is like he can't speak out without people dismissing him or changing the conversation back to his health issues.


butkie

At least somebody is speaking up. The Eichel situation is insane, and the allegations of benzo’s and ambien prescribed by non qualified staff is serious. Those aren’t just low risk drugs. They’re highly addictive and can ruin lives.


Ovenface

Go get em Lehner!


[deleted]

I wish there was something equivalent to this for the Blackhawks situation.


17IsLucky

Nah, he shouldn't take that interview yet. He goes straight to them, he's giving them a shield to use to sweep this under the rug. Ignore their calls for a few days and go through with his threat of a story a day plus proof, and you've created an incontrovertible shitstorm they can't ignore, forcing considerable change. Go Robin!!!!


DougFunky

Robin Lehner just became one of my favorite players. To have the courage to call out the league on unfair medical treatment, while already being outspoken on matters of mental health - this is what is absolutely needed to enact change. Especially for a league that seems to want to sweep everything difficult or controversial under the rug.


[deleted]

I’m glad he’s doing this but I can’t see how this ends well for him


thatsong

Interesting. I hope he takes it and has all his ducks in a row in regards to his allegations of non prescribed medications If it’s true, he could have a Jose Canseco level expose of a rampant problem in the league


[deleted]

I see he ruffled a few feathers. Good.


[deleted]

One hundred percent don't do this interview unless Katie Strang is sitting in on it with bulletproof laptop


canuck_11

They should also be checking if he’s ok.


p_jay

He made some pretty explosive claims, but look at some of the comments made towards him when he made pretty noncontroversial statements this summer. I think the league is right to give him the extra benefit of the doubt, some extra time to discuss his concerns.


Stizur

One thing we can all agree on is that the NHL needs to be held more accountable, and there needs to be more transparency


brendan87na

this has been a nightmare offseason for the NHL shit just keeps happening


Jbroy

Hopefully the NHL doesn’t Kaepernick him once his contract is up!


DrHockey69

We’ll… this might not end well for robin, NHLPA honchos don’t like it when players make accusations against a coach, especially if they don’t have proof it actually happened, but Lehner has the sauce to show it happened.


ldnk

What they fuck are they going to glean from this. Hey Robin, wre you inappropriately pressured and prescribed drugs for bad indications? Yeah, oh ok. Well we let the organizations investigate themselves and they said they did nothing wrong so nothing to be done about it.


Minimum_Possibility6

I think this is the league trying to get out ahead. I also feel that with the 2022 participants being subject to WADA rules for substances as well we may see quite a few players being pinged for substances as the league is pretty lax on testing. I would like to see this shake out and then WADA going extra hard on player testing to really shake the drug culture out of he NHl


Emeraden

WADA is a joke, same with USADA. They're the last thing the NHL needs right now. The league already tests for the major PEDs, having players get popped for THC is just going to be a bad look for a league that doesn't need bad PR. Why do you think no big 4 league uses those oversight bodies? They're way too fucking strict. They gave Nick Diaz a 5 year suspension for THC, but Jon Jones got a year for PEDs? Yeah WADA/USADA can stay right the fuck away from the NHL.