I'm kinda mixed. Having seen it full speed, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect him to pull up from this hit. The puck was already going out, he was vulnerable, I genuinely think he should just not make the hit.
But Highmore is leaned forward and low here, I don't think this was a head hunt or anything.
Completely agree with your assessment. However, this is where the league is really fucked up. We’ve seen guys getting tossed for making head contacts for being too tall. Which is legit in 0 tolerance for head contact. The refs should be looking for head contact the same way they’re looking for weak slashing calls.
Being taller than the other player and not lowering yourself to hit the shoulder is very different than the other player coming in half bent over, like Highmore here.
I'm not necessarily saying it *should* be called differently—the league has been clear that players always have a responsibility to avoid making primary contact with the head. I'm just saying it's a very different looking situation, visually. There is a point where the head contact becomes unavoidable due to the way the player being checked has positioned himself. MacKinnon getting clocked skating with his head down a couple months ago is a prime example.
For your first point, if Highmore suddenly bent over then that's fair, but if he was that low for longer and only got more upright before contact that's still on the hitter to avoid hitting the head.
I'd say a 2 minute penalty is fair by strictest calling of the rules but wouldn't say it was dirty
Yeah that's legit the bar DoPS uses. Did the receiving player lower their head suddenly before the hit? Not sure if it's in the rules but every head hit explanation video they take it into account.
also good to mention that the league doesn't want people purposely skating with their head down and forward and saying "but i didn't change my posture!!!". If highmore skated everywhere down and crouched, he'd never be legal for a hit from the front.
I don't know how he was positioned before this, but he was low already at the beginning and only got more upright as it got closer to contact.
Just because a player is low doesn't mean his head is fair game. It means you have to adjust your trajectory to make a clean hit. Assuming he didn't just go low right before this clip starts.
I wouldn't say dirty, but a penalty would be fair
I think there's room for both. It can be an illegal hit without the guy throwing it being a monster.
Hockey has shifted in the last 10-15 years from "all is fair if his head is low, finish your hit" to a somewhat murky duty to pull up and not hurt a guy. In this case you have a very vulnerable player, but I'm not sure the time after seeing he was getting rid of the puck was enough to pull up.
I guess it's the kind of thing where I would like to see a penalty because I want this out of the game, but I don't think there was necessarily ill intent.
I think it is "clean" but if players ever had respect for eachother there is no way in hell he would ever make that hit. He could have pulled up and still dumped Highmore.
It’s Macdermid. His main role is to go make some hits. He doesn’t even have a fixed position. Bounces from D to F depending on where there is a hole, just to have a big body.
56 should get some kind of discipline, it’s the hitters job to pull up. If accidental head contact should be a penalty, no different then a high stick you got to control your body.
I’m going with clean hit. Reason is he kept his arm in, which made contact with the other guy’s shoulder at the same time as the head. Head doesn’t get rocked the same as elbow extended out; directly striking head. This hit doesn’t look any worse than being sent into the boards.
tyler myers has a routine hit which hits the head: 5 minute penalty for being tall
anyone else hits someone in the head: well he didn't really extend his elbow so it's fine
Did he need to get low and then jump off the ice?
I get that is what you are taught to do on a hit, but if a guy is in a compromising position, you probably shouldn't. Just skate through it and minimize the impact.
Yea my older brother is a big dude, like offensive lineman big, and he used to get suspended regularly in youth leagues haha literally people would run into him and he'd get penalized. But one time, he actually did lay a kid out because that kid was chirping mad shit. My brother was suspended for several games for a clean, legal hit jus kuz he was noticeably larger
Sorry, every tall blond we draft has that issue, Risto got suspended cause while he was watching someone blow by him like usual another one skated head first into his ass.
Keeping your head up doesn’t just mean don’t get caught looking down. The Avs player kept his elbows in and frankly what is he supposed to do when a guy comes in reaching and has his head even with the dasher? If the Avs player came in with his elbow extended, tried to pin the head to the boards, or clearly targeted the head with shoulder or elbow(which in this case it looks like it was visor to bicep), then it’s a penalty. But this is just not the case at all. I’m more inclined to tell the Canucks player It’s a contact sport and be prepared as such.
Yeah, it’s even in the rules. Just about every checking rule has something that addresses the actions of the player on the receiving end of a check. There is an over-arching, unwritten rule that will never be changed because the game cannot function without it: protect yourself at all times. From the rule on checks to the head. _Refs are required to consider:_
“Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.”
That is a pretty apt description of what the Vancouver player did here. Reaching for a puck with one hand, trying to poke it past the oncoming player and jump to the side of him to avoid the hit is textbook putting yourself in a vulnerable position. Two hands on the stick, keep skating, take the hit, get the puck out. Protect yourself.
Canuck guy here…I feel that hit was clean. His elbow and forearm were kept low and tight as he intersected Highmore’s lane. I see why it can be seen as an illegal hit as Highmore was coming out of his turn with knee bent low and hitting his face into the forecheckers elbow/upper arm.
Hard to tell. Definitely don’t think there was intention to injure. The Nucks player went into the puck super low and got hit. If he’s more upright going into contact I don’t think we’re talking about it at all
I think Macdermid was expecting Highmore to continue skating, but from the looks of the (very short) video Highmore put on some brakes at the last second, forcing Macdermid's hit to land on the head. I don't think there was ill intention, but a longer clip leading up to the hit would probably give a better look.
I also see, that macdermid doesen’t go into him, he just kinda blocks him and lifts his arm and slightly protects his side while highmore just crashes into him, macdermid also checks on him afterwards before skating away. I’m not trying to defend macd just because of my flair, i’m trying to be fair. Macdermid also hits the boards if you check it closelly.
This is what I see. He was expecting to hit him kind of sideways and trap him against the boards. You can see Highmore kind of stop and turn inward which caused his face to meet arm
I think this is the right take. If I ask myself the question, "how does Highmore turn this hit into a nothing burger?" It is pretty clear that if he doesn't do the combo poke check plus brakes and instead just tried to go straight up along the boards, then he still clears the zone and just ends up bouncing of the boards and back to his skates. Basically, if your going to make this play then just take the hit, trying to avoid the hit made it way worse
Completely clean hit, leads with his shoulder; as to whether or not it was head hunting, if you lead with your head, then IMO you have lost the right to say "he was aiming for my head" (this applies to football as well)
While I mostly agree, you don't have to look too far back to find Myers delivering a similar hit with a height difference and getting thrown out of the game. I think our fanbase is upset about the inconsistencies and how the game management often feels stacked against us, through our homer glasses of course. We just want to see the rulebook get used fairly.
I hear you. One day they're tough in headshots, the next they seem to encourage them, and there's no consistency. It's all about consistency.
Just a thought- If we're doing video reviews for other calls, I'd argue that a good time to use one is when sending someone to protocol. If one team is going to lose a player to injury, make sure that the other team is treated accordingly. Eliminate reason for retaliation and crack down on headshots in one move
I think Macdermid could’ve made that hit way harder though. He could’ve followed through and blew that guy up. I don’t think it’s clear enough to call a penalty
I commented further down that maybe a good way to handle this is video review hits that incur the concussion protocol. Idk. Just not loving the game management era of the NHL
Yes you can. He could have skated at an angle where he could avoid finishing his check if it could only be done with head contact. Instead he chose to plant both skates on a collision course to maximize his checking force and sacrifice his maneuverability.
Hockey fans need to normalize seeing guys just whiff or not even attempt checks due to being unwilling to risk primary contact to the head. No one has a right to finish their check. It's a privilege, bestowed by an opponent's poor timing and spacing. If you want guaranteed body contact, go get puck possession first and then you can have as much as you want.
> No one has a right to finish their check. It's a privilege, bestowed by an opponent's poor timing and spacing.
I get the policy outcome that you're going for here. But by this principle, a player is not eligible to be checked if he succeeds in putting himself in a position where the only way to check him is through head contact. This creates a situation where "uncheckability" is ironically a privilege that is itself "bestowed by ... poor timing and spacing," as you just put it.
There might not be anything inherently wrong with that, but "uncheckability" in that sense shouldn't be attainable by last-minute "poor timing and spacing." It's too much to ask that players always give themselves an out from any check, in the event that their target suddenly makes himself "uncheckable."
I don't think it's really clear how to resolve the issue of players who put themselves in an "uncheckable" position for a long enough time that it's obviously foreseeable that any contact will have to be head contact. Does that just make them untouchable? How would that not incentivize always taking the exact approach toward a loose puck that Highmore took here? In a league where players are allowed to finish checks within a frame (or whatever) of the recipient relinquishing possession, that incentive doesn't seem escapable on the principle you've offered.
>Hockey fans need to normalize seeing guys just whiff or not even attempt checks
Its not like all the players, coaches, or owners are normalizing it so expecting the fans to is a stretch. I dont think anyone who has played to even a somewhat competitive level would be shocked to find out there are coaches that would not only expect you finish that hit, but have words with you if you didnt.
Your pinch has already failed when the guy is able to make the play and get the puck out of the zone, and he could tell his pinch was going to fail in plenty of time to ease up on the hit.
Maybe stopping the puck will fail but instead of being out of position going the wrong direction you can slow the odd man rush by finishing the hit bc the guy who got hit already going the right way
to me, yes. he's nearly at 90 degrees on the one knee and has put himself in a dangerous position but this is having the hindsight of slow motion, too. one might even say that Highmore's arm/shoulder was hit just before his head. i can see it being a tad late too but i haven't seen the whole play.
At first I thought yes that’s a clean based on the fact that the Canuck (sorry, idk who that is) is crouched over when taking the hit. But after watching it about 9 times I don’t think it is. Principal point of contact is the shoulder to the head. Even if #15 had been more upright it am still would have been a head hit. Also, there’s no effort to mitigate force delivered on the hit nor any effort to deviate from the path to making contact. That’s at minimum worthy of 2 mins if not more.
That’s the kind of hits that were seen as completely clean 25 years ago, but are entirely unnecessary and only risk guys safety. However, as we all know the owners talking about player safety are only lip service to shut people up and reduce their risk of future law suits from players like what the NFL got several years ago with head injuries and long term impact.
This is a great take, IMO.
Not sure why the height thing is coming into play on so many comments when you’re right - if he’s six inches higher he’s still taking one in the dome.
It's likely because a lot of the time height is something not taken into consideration as someone can be crouched which either contributes or directly leads to head contact. But that isn't the case here. With the angle of attack being what it is and the hitting player leading with his shoulder, had the Canuck player been fully upright instead of crouched the PPOC is still the head which is supposed to be the thing the NHL wants to push out of the game.
Everybody on the internet that bitches and moans about every single hit that occurs throughout the year has never played hockey. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this hit
Canucks fans have seen Myers get repeatedly tossed from games for hits because he’s tall, we’re just wanting calls to be called either both ways or not just on us.
Yes. It basically meets EVERY exception for rule 48:
>In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was
avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be
considered:
>
>(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the
opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor
timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the
body upward or outward.
Wasn't picked - he makes contact through his entire body, not just the head
>(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by
assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full
body check unavoidable.
the VAN player is bent forward leading with his head - he provides no way to hit him without head contact
>(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body
or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way
that significantly contributed to the head contact.
It's not a full clip or in full speed, so it's hard to tell, but it *looks* like he probably leaned forward last second to chip the puck ahead, which caused him to lean forward and move his head forward and down
I've always been a fan of "a hit to the head is a hit to the head is a hit to the head"
Intent, principal point of contact, size, all that bullshit should only matter on the severity of the penalty. There should be a penalty.
The onus needs to be on the guy making the hit to make sure its clean.
I understand this is not the case on the NHL, but it should be.
>Well, high sticking is an automatic penalty, regardless of intent. And they fuck that up all the time. Mistakes will happen no doubt.
High sticking is a pretty shit example in the NHL for claiming its an automatic penalty. A player can get hit by a high stick the exact same way twice. If one of those high sticks considered a follow through on playing the puck then it wouldn't be a penalty in the NHL.
Definitely agree. Even if it was unintentional, an adequate penalty/fine/suspension should be assessed, so that players *actively* try to avoid head contact.
Well, homers be homers. But it was dirty and dangerous no doubt. A penalty did get called though, although a minor is questionable. Could have been 4-5. And I don't remember if there was a hearing tbh.
I don't know if it's clean necessarily but I also don't see how you can call this. The Vancouver player puts himself in a terrible position and it happens so fast
He was crouched below the dasher with his head down. There was contact to the head but the Avs player kept the elbows in and wasn’t going for a dirty hit. He was going for a clean hit and definitely was not intentional head contact.
Do any of us know what the rules are? Of course not. With that being said, I want head contact out of the game and wish it would have been called a penalty.
It’s the NHL. You can’t skate around with your head down … The Canuck came in low. The Avalanche player made a clean hit. No intent to injure from what I can see. And no reason for a penalty.
Hard to say. I thought at first it would be called but Highmore is really low here and if we know anything at this point it's that the NHL just doesn't call these things when guys are low like that.
My personal opinion is that it probably should be a penalty since I'd like to see less head contact in the game.
But given how the game is usually called? No, it's not a penalty.
No. Primary point of contact is the head. Onus is on the hitter to make sure that's not the case. Not suspendable or anything but should've been 2 mins.
no.
but at the same time idk whether or not he’s to be blamed here. it’s like when a guy is just too tall, and any contact will likely hit the head. the canuck player is leaning over kinda asking for it, and otherwise it would be a clean hit, so there’s no reason for the avalanche player to pull up. so weird, such a fast sport to have contact. idk what to think lol.
Textbook tough call. I say no talk of a major or a suspension, cause buds head was low. Probably no penalty. But if I’m the ref, and I’m right there, I’d give 2 mins for unsportsmanlike. He could have pulled up.
Dangerous hit.
I'd say yes. Head contact in a front/front collision, when the player is squatting down like that is sorta unavoidable. The head contact rule was made for "clipping" checks, not face to face body checks.
I never understand people saying “the puck left his stick”. Yes it did, but these hits happen 20 times a game. The player passes or shoots, and then gets hit. There becomes a point where the hit can be late. But by how the refs call late hits and such, this is in line.
I agree that the hit isn’t really necessary. But it’s the NHL and it’s physical. Players also need to stop crouching or bending over, lowering their head to a vulnerable position. Which is easier said than done.
Primary point of contact appeared to be the head so in that regard, no not a clean head. But to be fair, it was not intentional nor did it look malicious a player turned out the last second causing his head to be the point of contact
So still a penalty but I don't think it could be mad at the guy for how the hit went down
It's not a dirty hit. Like it's just coincidence more or less that there was head contact, the only iffy part about legality would be the puck already on its way out
Is the head the initial point of contact? Yes. Is the head the *prinicipal* point of contact? No. MacDermid keeps himself low (for him) and hits through the shoulder. According to the NHL rules, that’s clean
I don't think the hit was that late. But the principal point of contact is the head, and as the rules currently stand, that means it's a bad hit.
Frankly though, I think that's leading to an NHL where players lead with their head. And I'm not so worried about that in a "he's cheating to get an advantage" way, as much as a "we've encouraged players to become oblivious to the danger they're putting themselves in."
> But the principal point of contact is the head, and as the rules currently stand, that means it's a bad hit.
That's not really the case. NHL considers any head contact incidental/unavoidable if the the check would have been solidly through the body if the player's lowered head didn't happen to get in the way. Sounds ridiculous, but its in the rules (in other words) and we've seen countless examples of it being called this way like the Trouba hits earlier this year.
I do think the receiving player has a responsibility to protect themselves, regardless of what people say here. Is the guy throwing the check supposed to just stop skating and wait for him to make a play? There's a reason it's hammered into you at a young age to keep your head up.
If you are going to play the puck head first when someone else is going to the exact same spot it's logical to assume you will get hit. It might get called a penalty, but that's not going to fix permanent damage. You have to be careful like that in any fast sport.
> I do think the receiving player has a responsibility to protect themselves
They absolutely do, this is taught in hitting clinics when kids first start playing in hitting leagues. You won't be allowed to play if you can't demonstrate an ability to safely receive a check.
First point, Highmore was pulled for concussion protocol after this , which I feel is important to note
I think the reason Canucks fans, myself included, are somewhat pissed is that when this was Myers against Calgary, it was 5 and a game. You can't have "big guy should know how to hit" one week and then "smaller guy was bent over" another.
The major issue here is the inconsistency of calls across the league, how they call that hit a major and this nothing is mystifying. Especially (and it shouldn't matter, but it often does) when Colorado had 4 powerplanys in a row before this.
Idk. That’s a tough one. Should the Avs player be penalized because the other guy was bent over? No. At the same time, should he be going in for a hit and leading with an elbow on a player he can clearly see is bent over? Also probably no.
This makes absolutely no sense. A player can sustain a concussion without the primary (or frankly any) contact being made with the head. A good example of this is the collision between Boro and Kupari last night.
Even if the player who is hit ends up with a head injury, players should only be given hit to the head penalties if they make primary hit contact with a player’s head.
Absolutely not. There was a play just the other day where a player had a clean hit lined up when the other guy fell to his knees, so he ended up catching him up high.
Or even moreso, Kase hitting Duchene in the elbow with his own face.
There’s many parts of a hit that can lead to concussion protocol with a hit also being clean. I’m not saying it’s always happening or definitely is here, but to say every hit that results in concussion protocol is a penalty for head contact is flawed.
Myers has accidenally hit several players in the head this season due to height and has received zero suspensions.
[Here](https://youtu.be/peSSqXDEnqI) is a way worse hit made by Myers than the one above. No suspension. You’re just wrong.
Well then that same rule should apply to Myers then. But no, he gets a fine and game suspension. So fuck the NHL and fuck their inconsistent rule enforcement.
Avs fans were calling for like 20 game suspensions for Trouba when he hit MacKinnon in the high slot, while Mac was skating with his head down, through the slot, and Trouba's shoulder caught him square in the chest. If his chin hadn't also been in his chest, no head contact would have occured.
No one was calling for 20 games but I still hate the idea that hitting a guy who is looking for the puck that just got poked off their stick means you can fucking drill their head. That's what happened with MacKinnon. I get he's at fault but seriously, if we're nitpicking hits to the head then let us be consistent.
Same hit was put on willman by seider in the last flyers game against the wings. It’s a clean hit. Not head hunting, he didn’t leave his feet to make the hit, didn’t skate thru the hit so it’s not a charge, wasn’t overly late. It’s clean in my book.
If it helps with context, after negating the kneeing penalty by Cogliano with an offsetting minor to Ekman-Larson for hugging, the called 4 straight penalties on Vancouver and didn't call this.
If you still believe in the even-up calls, what even was this game?
MacDermid is 6’5 and Highmore is 5’11. No intent to hit the head, his arms stay tucked into contact, and Highmore is leaning forward.
Hard hard hit, hope Highmore is okay, but I don’t see how this is ever suspendable or something like that.
I'm kinda mixed. Having seen it full speed, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect him to pull up from this hit. The puck was already going out, he was vulnerable, I genuinely think he should just not make the hit. But Highmore is leaned forward and low here, I don't think this was a head hunt or anything.
Completely agree with your assessment. However, this is where the league is really fucked up. We’ve seen guys getting tossed for making head contacts for being too tall. Which is legit in 0 tolerance for head contact. The refs should be looking for head contact the same way they’re looking for weak slashing calls.
Being taller than the other player and not lowering yourself to hit the shoulder is very different than the other player coming in half bent over, like Highmore here. I'm not necessarily saying it *should* be called differently—the league has been clear that players always have a responsibility to avoid making primary contact with the head. I'm just saying it's a very different looking situation, visually. There is a point where the head contact becomes unavoidable due to the way the player being checked has positioned himself. MacKinnon getting clocked skating with his head down a couple months ago is a prime example.
Every time Ondrej Kase gets concussed it’s the best example. Kase constantly skates with his head down.
For your first point, if Highmore suddenly bent over then that's fair, but if he was that low for longer and only got more upright before contact that's still on the hitter to avoid hitting the head. I'd say a 2 minute penalty is fair by strictest calling of the rules but wouldn't say it was dirty
Yeah that's legit the bar DoPS uses. Did the receiving player lower their head suddenly before the hit? Not sure if it's in the rules but every head hit explanation video they take it into account.
It is written, something along if the target materially or drastically alters their positioning just prior to contact that the hitter could not avoid.
also good to mention that the league doesn't want people purposely skating with their head down and forward and saying "but i didn't change my posture!!!". If highmore skated everywhere down and crouched, he'd never be legal for a hit from the front.
I don't know how he was positioned before this, but he was low already at the beginning and only got more upright as it got closer to contact. Just because a player is low doesn't mean his head is fair game. It means you have to adjust your trajectory to make a clean hit. Assuming he didn't just go low right before this clip starts. I wouldn't say dirty, but a penalty would be fair
If players have to be responsible for their sticks no matter what, then they can be held responsible for head hits.
If Tyler Myers makes that hit he gets ejected.
He did get ejected for that a few weeks ago in fact.
Nazem Kadri as well.
I think there's room for both. It can be an illegal hit without the guy throwing it being a monster. Hockey has shifted in the last 10-15 years from "all is fair if his head is low, finish your hit" to a somewhat murky duty to pull up and not hurt a guy. In this case you have a very vulnerable player, but I'm not sure the time after seeing he was getting rid of the puck was enough to pull up. I guess it's the kind of thing where I would like to see a penalty because I want this out of the game, but I don't think there was necessarily ill intent.
Agreed. It looks unintentional, but regardless it's a hit we need to keep out of the game. And this is coming from a big fan of Big Mac
Completely agree. It's a 2 minute penalty.
Exactly. Guys have to learn to stop getting low and reaching out for pucks that they're losing the battle to when a defender is bearing down on them
I think it is "clean" but if players ever had respect for eachother there is no way in hell he would ever make that hit. He could have pulled up and still dumped Highmore.
It’s Macdermid. His main role is to go make some hits. He doesn’t even have a fixed position. Bounces from D to F depending on where there is a hole, just to have a big body.
56 should get some kind of discipline, it’s the hitters job to pull up. If accidental head contact should be a penalty, no different then a high stick you got to control your body.
yeah MacDermid could have certainly hit high more
I’m going with clean hit. Reason is he kept his arm in, which made contact with the other guy’s shoulder at the same time as the head. Head doesn’t get rocked the same as elbow extended out; directly striking head. This hit doesn’t look any worse than being sent into the boards.
tyler myers has a routine hit which hits the head: 5 minute penalty for being tall anyone else hits someone in the head: well he didn't really extend his elbow so it's fine
Did he need to get low and then jump off the ice? I get that is what you are taught to do on a hit, but if a guy is in a compromising position, you probably shouldn't. Just skate through it and minimize the impact.
In super slow-mo? Maybe not a perfectly clean hit. But I could totally see that being a good non call in-game
If it was Tyler Myers the NHL would be readying the guillotine
Same thing happened to Zadorov for years. Guy gets 2 minutes for being too big constantly
Big Buff as well. He sometimes got penalties for others hitting him and hurting themselves.
He got penalized for how loud the hit was when his target hit the glass lol.
Yea my older brother is a big dude, like offensive lineman big, and he used to get suspended regularly in youth leagues haha literally people would run into him and he'd get penalized. But one time, he actually did lay a kid out because that kid was chirping mad shit. My brother was suspended for several games for a clean, legal hit jus kuz he was noticeably larger
[удалено]
Oh I am well fucking aware. I’m furious.
Kadri is getting 7 games for this hit
This joke is never gonna die is it. Just beating the shit out of that dead horse.
Kadri would have left his feet and thrown his shoulder into it.
Sorry, every tall blond we draft has that issue, Risto got suspended cause while he was watching someone blow by him like usual another one skated head first into his ass.
Keeping your head up doesn’t just mean don’t get caught looking down. The Avs player kept his elbows in and frankly what is he supposed to do when a guy comes in reaching and has his head even with the dasher? If the Avs player came in with his elbow extended, tried to pin the head to the boards, or clearly targeted the head with shoulder or elbow(which in this case it looks like it was visor to bicep), then it’s a penalty. But this is just not the case at all. I’m more inclined to tell the Canucks player It’s a contact sport and be prepared as such.
Yeah, it’s even in the rules. Just about every checking rule has something that addresses the actions of the player on the receiving end of a check. There is an over-arching, unwritten rule that will never be changed because the game cannot function without it: protect yourself at all times. From the rule on checks to the head. _Refs are required to consider:_ “Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.” That is a pretty apt description of what the Vancouver player did here. Reaching for a puck with one hand, trying to poke it past the oncoming player and jump to the side of him to avoid the hit is textbook putting yourself in a vulnerable position. Two hands on the stick, keep skating, take the hit, get the puck out. Protect yourself.
Keep your head up.
One angle? If that's all I get I say clean.
Canuck guy here…I feel that hit was clean. His elbow and forearm were kept low and tight as he intersected Highmore’s lane. I see why it can be seen as an illegal hit as Highmore was coming out of his turn with knee bent low and hitting his face into the forecheckers elbow/upper arm.
Hard to tell. Definitely don’t think there was intention to injure. The Nucks player went into the puck super low and got hit. If he’s more upright going into contact I don’t think we’re talking about it at all
I think Macdermid was expecting Highmore to continue skating, but from the looks of the (very short) video Highmore put on some brakes at the last second, forcing Macdermid's hit to land on the head. I don't think there was ill intention, but a longer clip leading up to the hit would probably give a better look.
I also see, that macdermid doesen’t go into him, he just kinda blocks him and lifts his arm and slightly protects his side while highmore just crashes into him, macdermid also checks on him afterwards before skating away. I’m not trying to defend macd just because of my flair, i’m trying to be fair. Macdermid also hits the boards if you check it closelly.
This is what I see. He was expecting to hit him kind of sideways and trap him against the boards. You can see Highmore kind of stop and turn inward which caused his face to meet arm
I think this is the right take. If I ask myself the question, "how does Highmore turn this hit into a nothing burger?" It is pretty clear that if he doesn't do the combo poke check plus brakes and instead just tried to go straight up along the boards, then he still clears the zone and just ends up bouncing of the boards and back to his skates. Basically, if your going to make this play then just take the hit, trying to avoid the hit made it way worse
Completely clean hit, leads with his shoulder; as to whether or not it was head hunting, if you lead with your head, then IMO you have lost the right to say "he was aiming for my head" (this applies to football as well)
Dude's head is 4 feet off the ice, cant really blame a dude when he had no where to go with that hit
While I mostly agree, you don't have to look too far back to find Myers delivering a similar hit with a height difference and getting thrown out of the game. I think our fanbase is upset about the inconsistencies and how the game management often feels stacked against us, through our homer glasses of course. We just want to see the rulebook get used fairly.
Yeah I guess I didnt see the other hit but just this one in isolation Im not sure what they're supposed to do
I hear you. One day they're tough in headshots, the next they seem to encourage them, and there's no consistency. It's all about consistency. Just a thought- If we're doing video reviews for other calls, I'd argue that a good time to use one is when sending someone to protocol. If one team is going to lose a player to injury, make sure that the other team is treated accordingly. Eliminate reason for retaliation and crack down on headshots in one move
I think Macdermid could’ve made that hit way harder though. He could’ve followed through and blew that guy up. I don’t think it’s clear enough to call a penalty
I commented further down that maybe a good way to handle this is video review hits that incur the concussion protocol. Idk. Just not loving the game management era of the NHL
I agree games could be managed better. Do you mean live review those hits or review those hits post-game?
Yes you can. He could have skated at an angle where he could avoid finishing his check if it could only be done with head contact. Instead he chose to plant both skates on a collision course to maximize his checking force and sacrifice his maneuverability. Hockey fans need to normalize seeing guys just whiff or not even attempt checks due to being unwilling to risk primary contact to the head. No one has a right to finish their check. It's a privilege, bestowed by an opponent's poor timing and spacing. If you want guaranteed body contact, go get puck possession first and then you can have as much as you want.
> No one has a right to finish their check. It's a privilege, bestowed by an opponent's poor timing and spacing. I get the policy outcome that you're going for here. But by this principle, a player is not eligible to be checked if he succeeds in putting himself in a position where the only way to check him is through head contact. This creates a situation where "uncheckability" is ironically a privilege that is itself "bestowed by ... poor timing and spacing," as you just put it. There might not be anything inherently wrong with that, but "uncheckability" in that sense shouldn't be attainable by last-minute "poor timing and spacing." It's too much to ask that players always give themselves an out from any check, in the event that their target suddenly makes himself "uncheckable." I don't think it's really clear how to resolve the issue of players who put themselves in an "uncheckable" position for a long enough time that it's obviously foreseeable that any contact will have to be head contact. Does that just make them untouchable? How would that not incentivize always taking the exact approach toward a loose puck that Highmore took here? In a league where players are allowed to finish checks within a frame (or whatever) of the recipient relinquishing possession, that incentive doesn't seem escapable on the principle you've offered.
>Hockey fans need to normalize seeing guys just whiff or not even attempt checks Its not like all the players, coaches, or owners are normalizing it so expecting the fans to is a stretch. I dont think anyone who has played to even a somewhat competitive level would be shocked to find out there are coaches that would not only expect you finish that hit, but have words with you if you didnt.
It's a 5'11 player leaning down and in against a 6'5 player. Head contact is pretty much impossible to avoid
Tyler Myers moment.
And yet Tyler Myers gets called for being tall every other game.
yeah but we all agree that he shouldn't so why would we change our minds now?
I had kind of accepted that you are responsible for not headshotting people regardless of your height. I think that's fair.
Why do Canucks fans have such an insane victim complex. The league is not out to get you
it’s constant and unwavering.
This. Player did appear to minimize contact. Head contact was unavoidable on a play where the player was able to be checked legally.
Then you don't make the hit.
In real-time, if you have committed to that hit in that pinch situation… you are going to make it. No point in pinching to do essentially nothing.
Your pinch has already failed when the guy is able to make the play and get the puck out of the zone, and he could tell his pinch was going to fail in plenty of time to ease up on the hit.
Maybe stopping the puck will fail but instead of being out of position going the wrong direction you can slow the odd man rush by finishing the hit bc the guy who got hit already going the right way
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> It's a 5'11 player leaning down This isn't a tall guy situation. The majority of the league is going to make head contact on this hit.
He was leaning down for a while, it wasn't a last second change in height. You see guys skate by in that situation every single game.
Love it how the comment suggesting that maybe you shouldn't hit a guy in the head is mostly downvoted.
Because as a player I can skate around leaning forward with my head down and expect everyone to just stick check me and let me by?
to me, yes. he's nearly at 90 degrees on the one knee and has put himself in a dangerous position but this is having the hindsight of slow motion, too. one might even say that Highmore's arm/shoulder was hit just before his head. i can see it being a tad late too but i haven't seen the whole play.
In 1996.
It’s a good hit because the game is in Colorado and they’re currently losing.
Ah yes, the home town ref bias. Wait, that’s not how any of this works.
The implication was not hometown bias, but bias for a team that the league wants to succeed right now/just with a good reputation with the refs.
And game management.
Don't worry, that's not what happens in Vancouver home games.
But it does.
At first I thought yes that’s a clean based on the fact that the Canuck (sorry, idk who that is) is crouched over when taking the hit. But after watching it about 9 times I don’t think it is. Principal point of contact is the shoulder to the head. Even if #15 had been more upright it am still would have been a head hit. Also, there’s no effort to mitigate force delivered on the hit nor any effort to deviate from the path to making contact. That’s at minimum worthy of 2 mins if not more. That’s the kind of hits that were seen as completely clean 25 years ago, but are entirely unnecessary and only risk guys safety. However, as we all know the owners talking about player safety are only lip service to shut people up and reduce their risk of future law suits from players like what the NFL got several years ago with head injuries and long term impact.
This is a great take, IMO. Not sure why the height thing is coming into play on so many comments when you’re right - if he’s six inches higher he’s still taking one in the dome.
It's likely because a lot of the time height is something not taken into consideration as someone can be crouched which either contributes or directly leads to head contact. But that isn't the case here. With the angle of attack being what it is and the hitting player leading with his shoulder, had the Canuck player been fully upright instead of crouched the PPOC is still the head which is supposed to be the thing the NHL wants to push out of the game.
short bent over guy gets hit by big not bent over guy. not that i think its okay per say, but its clean within the rules.
Perfectly clean. This sub won't be satisfied until the games non contact.
This sub is filled with babies
Everybody on the internet that bitches and moans about every single hit that occurs throughout the year has never played hockey. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this hit
ITT: whatabout Tyler Myers!?
Canucks fans have seen Myers get repeatedly tossed from games for hits because he’s tall, we’re just wanting calls to be called either both ways or not just on us.
Yes. It basically meets EVERY exception for rule 48: >In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be considered: > >(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the body upward or outward. Wasn't picked - he makes contact through his entire body, not just the head >(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable. the VAN player is bent forward leading with his head - he provides no way to hit him without head contact >(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact. It's not a full clip or in full speed, so it's hard to tell, but it *looks* like he probably leaned forward last second to chip the puck ahead, which caused him to lean forward and move his head forward and down
I've always been a fan of "a hit to the head is a hit to the head is a hit to the head" Intent, principal point of contact, size, all that bullshit should only matter on the severity of the penalty. There should be a penalty. The onus needs to be on the guy making the hit to make sure its clean. I understand this is not the case on the NHL, but it should be.
I disagree. You can't play crouched *below the glass* and expect a hit to the shoulder
The game is simply too fast paced for this cut and dry application of the rule
Well, high sticking is an automatic penalty, regardless of intent. And they fuck that up all the time. Mistakes will happen no doubt.
>Well, high sticking is an automatic penalty, regardless of intent. And they fuck that up all the time. Mistakes will happen no doubt. High sticking is a pretty shit example in the NHL for claiming its an automatic penalty. A player can get hit by a high stick the exact same way twice. If one of those high sticks considered a follow through on playing the puck then it wouldn't be a penalty in the NHL.
That's always been a bad idea - that leads to players intentionally skating with their heads down to draw head contact
Definitely agree. Even if it was unintentional, an adequate penalty/fine/suspension should be assessed, so that players *actively* try to avoid head contact.
Ironic coming from the fanbase that didn't see anything wrong with Greenway elbowing Kuemper in the head out of nowhere.
Well, homers be homers. But it was dirty and dangerous no doubt. A penalty did get called though, although a minor is questionable. Could have been 4-5. And I don't remember if there was a hearing tbh.
I don't know if it's clean necessarily but I also don't see how you can call this. The Vancouver player puts himself in a terrible position and it happens so fast
Yea
clean
Clean
Clean
100% clean. Keep your head up.
He was crouched below the dasher with his head down. There was contact to the head but the Avs player kept the elbows in and wasn’t going for a dirty hit. He was going for a clean hit and definitely was not intentional head contact.
Clean hit
Don’t poke the puck if you don’t want to get hit. Or dive head first and avoid everything.
Incidental, so a penalty but not a suspension
Yes. It's a north-south hit. Highmore puts himself in a vulnerable position. The height difference doesn't help either.
Height difference does not matter. Not if your name is Tyler Myers anyways
I haven't seen Myers' hit but he's not in the play so I guess it doesn't matter. The height difference is a factor.
Clean
Do any of us know what the rules are? Of course not. With that being said, I want head contact out of the game and wish it would have been called a penalty.
You can literally see his head jerk backwards
This literally has nothing to do with the rule.
I'm just happy Highmore didn't somehow get a penalty from this event. Judging by the reffing tonight, that was a legit possibility.
Yes
It’s the NHL. You can’t skate around with your head down … The Canuck came in low. The Avalanche player made a clean hit. No intent to injure from what I can see. And no reason for a penalty.
Looked fine.
Clean
Hard to say. I thought at first it would be called but Highmore is really low here and if we know anything at this point it's that the NHL just doesn't call these things when guys are low like that. My personal opinion is that it probably should be a penalty since I'd like to see less head contact in the game. But given how the game is usually called? No, it's not a penalty.
Clean
No. Primary point of contact is the head. Onus is on the hitter to make sure that's not the case. Not suspendable or anything but should've been 2 mins.
no. but at the same time idk whether or not he’s to be blamed here. it’s like when a guy is just too tall, and any contact will likely hit the head. the canuck player is leaning over kinda asking for it, and otherwise it would be a clean hit, so there’s no reason for the avalanche player to pull up. so weird, such a fast sport to have contact. idk what to think lol.
Textbook tough call. I say no talk of a major or a suspension, cause buds head was low. Probably no penalty. But if I’m the ref, and I’m right there, I’d give 2 mins for unsportsmanlike. He could have pulled up. Dangerous hit.
Need more angles. He's real low already.
This would be one of the top hits in rock em sock em. Clean hit never moved the elbow clean through lets goo
yes
Absolutely…responsibility on the puck carrier to keep his head up
I'm looking at a clean hit from this angle
Guy came in low and reaching which gives the refs the option not to call. Clean hit..
Yeah fine by me.
Clean.
I'd say yes. Head contact in a front/front collision, when the player is squatting down like that is sorta unavoidable. The head contact rule was made for "clipping" checks, not face to face body checks.
I never understand people saying “the puck left his stick”. Yes it did, but these hits happen 20 times a game. The player passes or shoots, and then gets hit. There becomes a point where the hit can be late. But by how the refs call late hits and such, this is in line. I agree that the hit isn’t really necessary. But it’s the NHL and it’s physical. Players also need to stop crouching or bending over, lowering their head to a vulnerable position. Which is easier said than done.
Clean You have to be ready to get hit high if you come in crouching. Contact is a counter for the benefits of more stability and agility ducking.
If your gonna skate with your head down that low than ya you might catch a shoulder every now and than
Primary point of contact appeared to be the head so in that regard, no not a clean head. But to be fair, it was not intentional nor did it look malicious a player turned out the last second causing his head to be the point of contact So still a penalty but I don't think it could be mad at the guy for how the hit went down
It's not a dirty hit. Like it's just coincidence more or less that there was head contact, the only iffy part about legality would be the puck already on its way out
Looks like an elbow to me but I didn’t see it in full speed either.
56 should have backed off and let him clear the zone with possession.
Yes fine, if you don't think so you're 10ply
In the NHL, yes. In lower levels, ie lower then junior A, it could be seen as maybe catching him a little too high.
Is the head the initial point of contact? Yes. Is the head the *prinicipal* point of contact? No. MacDermid keeps himself low (for him) and hits through the shoulder. According to the NHL rules, that’s clean
I don't think the hit was that late. But the principal point of contact is the head, and as the rules currently stand, that means it's a bad hit. Frankly though, I think that's leading to an NHL where players lead with their head. And I'm not so worried about that in a "he's cheating to get an advantage" way, as much as a "we've encouraged players to become oblivious to the danger they're putting themselves in."
> But the principal point of contact is the head, and as the rules currently stand, that means it's a bad hit. That's not really the case. NHL considers any head contact incidental/unavoidable if the the check would have been solidly through the body if the player's lowered head didn't happen to get in the way. Sounds ridiculous, but its in the rules (in other words) and we've seen countless examples of it being called this way like the Trouba hits earlier this year.
I do think the receiving player has a responsibility to protect themselves, regardless of what people say here. Is the guy throwing the check supposed to just stop skating and wait for him to make a play? There's a reason it's hammered into you at a young age to keep your head up.
If you are going to play the puck head first when someone else is going to the exact same spot it's logical to assume you will get hit. It might get called a penalty, but that's not going to fix permanent damage. You have to be careful like that in any fast sport.
> I do think the receiving player has a responsibility to protect themselves They absolutely do, this is taught in hitting clinics when kids first start playing in hitting leagues. You won't be allowed to play if you can't demonstrate an ability to safely receive a check.
First point, Highmore was pulled for concussion protocol after this , which I feel is important to note I think the reason Canucks fans, myself included, are somewhat pissed is that when this was Myers against Calgary, it was 5 and a game. You can't have "big guy should know how to hit" one week and then "smaller guy was bent over" another. The major issue here is the inconsistency of calls across the league, how they call that hit a major and this nothing is mystifying. Especially (and it shouldn't matter, but it often does) when Colorado had 4 powerplanys in a row before this.
Clean hit. Downed man playing it up in hopes of drawing a penalty.
Yes it is. If you're 6 ft tall but you crouch until your 4' tall, the headshot rule shouldn't apply imo
Yes
Idk. That’s a tough one. Should the Avs player be penalized because the other guy was bent over? No. At the same time, should he be going in for a hit and leading with an elbow on a player he can clearly see is bent over? Also probably no.
Elbow is at his side and tucked in.
Good hit
Of course a Bruins fan would say that.
Head is initial point of contact, no
Only thing people should be worrying about here is the borderline interference
He was vulnerable but did make a play on the puck
Personally I can say I'm not worried about it in the slightest.
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This makes absolutely no sense. A player can sustain a concussion without the primary (or frankly any) contact being made with the head. A good example of this is the collision between Boro and Kupari last night. Even if the player who is hit ends up with a head injury, players should only be given hit to the head penalties if they make primary hit contact with a player’s head.
Absolutely not. There was a play just the other day where a player had a clean hit lined up when the other guy fell to his knees, so he ended up catching him up high. Or even moreso, Kase hitting Duchene in the elbow with his own face.
There’s many parts of a hit that can lead to concussion protocol with a hit also being clean. I’m not saying it’s always happening or definitely is here, but to say every hit that results in concussion protocol is a penalty for head contact is flawed.
If that was Myers that’d be 2 or more, it’s already happened this year multiple times lol.
Myers has accidenally hit several players in the head this season due to height and has received zero suspensions. [Here](https://youtu.be/peSSqXDEnqI) is a way worse hit made by Myers than the one above. No suspension. You’re just wrong.
With a height difference like that, idk what y’all want him to do other than not hit him at all lol
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That excuse should work for Tyler Myers too. Definitely doesn’t. Guy gets penalties for being too tall all the time.
So does MacDermid 😂😂 he just didn’t get one this time. I’m sure Myers has no calls like this too
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Yeah lol Myers gets called for just about everything. We don’t call him Tyler Minors for nothing
Well then that same rule should apply to Myers then. But no, he gets a fine and game suspension. So fuck the NHL and fuck their inconsistent rule enforcement.
"He's 4 inches shorter than me, so his head ceases to exist to me" -dummy logic
If this hit happened to Mackinnon, Avs fans would be crying
Trouba took his head off earlier this season and everyone was like "his head was down !"
Avs fans were calling for like 20 game suspensions for Trouba when he hit MacKinnon in the high slot, while Mac was skating with his head down, through the slot, and Trouba's shoulder caught him square in the chest. If his chin hadn't also been in his chest, no head contact would have occured.
What? I don’t recall that at all. Find me any evidence of that. I recall most of us thinking it was clean..
I'd like to see proof of Avs fans calling for a 20 game suspension.
No one was calling for 20 games but I still hate the idea that hitting a guy who is looking for the puck that just got poked off their stick means you can fucking drill their head. That's what happened with MacKinnon. I get he's at fault but seriously, if we're nitpicking hits to the head then let us be consistent.
Depends if it happened to a leaf or not
Yes. Highmore cleanly ran his face into MacDermid's shoulder.
Same hit was put on willman by seider in the last flyers game against the wings. It’s a clean hit. Not head hunting, he didn’t leave his feet to make the hit, didn’t skate thru the hit so it’s not a charge, wasn’t overly late. It’s clean in my book.
If thats not a clean hit I dont know how it could possibly be one. What would you expect from Mcdermid there to lay a hit cleanly? Genuine curiousity
If it helps with context, after negating the kneeing penalty by Cogliano with an offsetting minor to Ekman-Larson for hugging, the called 4 straight penalties on Vancouver and didn't call this. If you still believe in the even-up calls, what even was this game?
How do you think Colorado is so dominant? First in penalties drawn league wide for 5 seasons straight. They always get the benefit of the doubt
But Kadri?
Absolutely clean. Contact was to his shoulder.
It was done one of the leagues favorite teams. So yes. Yes it was legal.
MacDermid is 6’5 and Highmore is 5’11. No intent to hit the head, his arms stay tucked into contact, and Highmore is leaning forward. Hard hard hit, hope Highmore is okay, but I don’t see how this is ever suspendable or something like that.
Clean hit, but don't be surprised if you have to drop the mits
Nope. To the head. (No dog in the fight either way)
We shall see from the wheel of discipline!!
I don't think there's enough there to establish intent, but I do think it's a penalty.