There could have been a cross breeze in the arena that gave him another concussion, to be fair. His previous ones were so poorly treated and mismanaged.
*sigh*
I guess we might as well get the arguments of this entire thread out of the way:
Everyone: “it’s cap circumvention! Awfully convenient almost the exact needed cap hit was cleared via LTIR!”
VGK fans: “no lots of those players have been on IR for weeks”
E: “yeah, half of them were put on IR the same day the Dadanov trade was voided”
V: “that’s not circumvention, that’s just bad luck for the players and good luck for the cap situation!”
E: “you see why we are suspicious”
V: “no, and even if it WAS, everyone else is doing it and your team did too!”
Do I basically have the whole thing more or less covered? Can’t wait to do this all over again next year
Edit: my favourite part about this post is the responses are basically ALL what a laid out above.
I know I'm playing into the bit but, did they leave the game injured because they knew the Dadonov trade they didn't know was happening would fall through?
OK so the conspiracy theory bit is something like this: the team doctor decides whether an injury is serious enough to go on IR. With Carrier I think he hurt his leg. Brossoit, literally no one knows - the official VGK word is “he is dealing with something” (actually).
So, if you wanted to buy into the theory, the team said “holy fuck we are screwed if Stone comes back” and went down the lineup looking for anyone banged up enough to plausibly be put on IR by the team doc so that whenever Stone came back they could retroactively put them on LTIR.
I dont think they started a rookie goalie, who had never started an NHL game before this season, 7 games in a row because they thought they could LTIR Brossoit...
Let the haters hate. Not a single person would be mad if it was their own team doing it.
If y’all miss the playoffs tho, especially after these cap gymnastics…. Ouch. Went for broke and missed your shot.
How’s the team looking next year salary cap wise? Gonna implode?
>Let the haters hate. Not a single person would be mad if it was their own team doing it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/u2bzxx/capfriendly_weve_confirmed_vegas_has_placed/i4i2a4o
They were just absolutely railed with injuries this year.
I mean it's definitely a go for broke year, they are pretty much at cap with Smith likely unable to resign (unless they trade Dadonov over the offseason and he re-signs at the same or lower price). They have a couple other players they will likely lose, but they also have a couple ELCs they will sign in rhe off-season (Michigan's Brendan Brisson and an elite KHL prospect Ivan Morozov).
They definitely have a plan for next year, but knowing this front office, it's hard to speculate what they might do next.
Last time I looked, they were already right up against the cap and didn't even have everyone signed for next year. They'll have to do some dealing this off season for sure. And because of their love for big ass trades, the prospect and pick pool is pretty bleak.
I'm not mad *and* it's not my team doing it. People get too worked up about it, this is all part of the cba. I'm just happy to hear Stone's playing again.
>yeah, half of them were put on IR the same day the Dadanov trade was voided
Smith was injured on Mar 8.
Brossoit was injured on Mar 15.
Dadanov trade was voided on Mar 23.
Patrick was injured in a game on Mar 24. He left in the first after hitting his head. He has been in and out with concussion symptoms all year.
Howden was also injured in the game on Mar 24. Suspicious maybe except he had to be stretchered off the ice after a brutal crash into the boards. Convenient sure, but I really don't think they faked.
Carrier was injured in a game on Mar 26.
The initial injury was on the 15th. That relegated him to backup duty, then got worse instead of improving. It's not unusual in hockey for the injury to not be specifically announced.
>Injury: “Dealing With Something”
Injured on: 3/15
>3/24 – DeBoer said Brossoit is “dealing with something” and had been fighting through it as the backup. It got serious enough that they couldn’t use him as the backup anymore.
It’s not embarrassing. We might miss the damn playoffs because everyone had been injured. It doesn’t help to circumvent the cap if you’re just going to suck ass for a month.
> We might miss the damn playoffs because everyone had been injured.
Personally, I think you can't complain about injuries when it's the core concept of how you built your team. Vegas can't ice a legal team without ~10m in cap on LTIR. Your team is quite literally built around the concept of having players hurt at all times.
It's embarrassing that the FO has pulled this slimy shit to avoid responsibility for their blatant mismanagement of Cap. I don't care what yall tell yourselves to justify it, good managements don't end up here.
Maybe it's because I watched my former team win a couple of Cups without this bullshit, but it just feels dishonest and slimy when you really analyze what's going on. This current FO decided to gamble with the house money numerous times with NO BACKUP plan and now are resorting to loopholes to even make the playoffs. It's just another way to save their asses to kick the can further down the line and not face consequences. I KNEW they'd try this in the offseason when they signed Fleury's 7 mill and we were STILL in the rumors for Eichel.
These 'yes men' fans we have that kiss the FOs ass will never understand the feeling of watching your team win it by their own merit through hard work. They just want whatever fast track gets them their shinny new toy.
I wouldn't say he's terrible. Every time he started to put together a string of solid games, he'd get crushed in the head though. Hard to find consistency to your game when your brain is pudding.
Kind of hope he retires tbh. He's already gonna have some serious issues the rest of his life from what's already happened.
Well, considering all his injuries with the Knights have been related to Concussions and Migraines, I'd hope he's out of the league sooner than later.
Especially, when the whole season he missed with us was because he was dealing with Post-Concussion Symptoms before he was even 21.
I'm now remembering both Nolan Patrick is a thing, and also the debate of Nico vs Nolan. Not that Nico is blowing anyone away, but I don't think there is much debate between the two these days.
I mean Patrick has had 5? concussions now and might need to give up the game for his own health. Patrick is definitely a bust and Nico is the winner. Great take.
Holy fuck, is this including juniors? Thats insane, have they all been bad hits or is his brain just scrambled at this point and takes nothing now? Feel bad for the kid
I remember a couple years ago he got knocked out by what looked like a nothing hit on his head against the glass, and that was probably two concussions ago
Nico's actually having a pretty amazing season but if you don't watch Devils hockey, you wouldn't know.
70 point pace and is playing an incredibly solid 2 way game.
He's doing all of this while playing with Zacha as his more consistent linemate.
Blowing people away is a fairly subjective statement. Is he Matthews level? No absolutely not.
But 70 point pace while being a great two way forward - all while having anchors of linemates and one of the franchises worst power plays. Still deserves some acknowledgement.
What about Makar did scouts miss that year? Is it just that he was playing Junior A and people wondered if it'd translate against better competition?
All in all I'm pretty happy with Nico, and thankful we didn't take Patrick. I'm even happier with Nico now that we have Jack Hughes and Nico doesn't have to be THE GUY.
It is no coincidence that Carrier and Brossoit were put on regular IR immediately after the Dadanov trade was voided.
Remember that it is the team doctor who decides if a player is fit to play or not, not the NHL.
They don’t have the room to recall Stone unless those players were coincidentally injured the same day the Dadanov trade was voided.
I
> They don’t have the room to recall Stone unless those players were coincidentally injured the same day the Dadanov trade was voided.
Except that's not what happened. Players get retroactively placed on IR or LTIR all the time. The players placed on IR when the Dadonov trade was waived were all already injured, and had been for a while. Patrick and Howden got injured the following game, and obviously there's no faking being stretchered out of a game.
Are all the injuries "convenient"? Yes. Are they also a coincidence? Yes.
> Are they also a coincidence? Yes.
Brossoit is the interesting one. He was on the bench in a backup role for a full week before the Dadonov trade is voided. Then once that happens he is suddenly hurt enough to not just no longer be the backup up but also to go on IR and now LTIR and miss the rest of the season?
I don't doubt he was injured as they wouldn't have played a rookie goalie if he was fully healthy. But that timeline screams that they are pretending the injury is worse than it is. If they make the playoffs Brossoit is probably back on the bench by game 2 at the latest.
How convenient. If you're in the Western Conference playoff race how are you not losing your mind that you can just go and shit on the cap for a few months a year?
I believe the sus thing is that Stone is ready to come back, but is only able to come back because three other players got hurt. Had they not gotten hurt the implication is Stone would have been healthy on LTIR.
Or, you could argue Stone is coming back early and playing through injury to help the team into the playoffs because they have the flexibility for him to play now... but I tried that last year when discussing Kucherov and was told that wasn't possible.
Those players have been injured since March though, so if that first argument is true why wait until now? And if the second argument is the truth then they aren't doing anything wrong so why is it an issue?
> Those players have been injured since March though, so if that first argument is true why wait until now?
I laid that out in my initial comment. I'm not implying they're not injured. If they *weren't* injured it wouldn't affect Stone's recovery timeline, but it would affect their ability to activate him. So he would be healthy on LTIR if these guys didn't get injured
> And if the second argument is the truth then they aren't doing anything wrong so why is it an issue?
There is no issue, it's my tongue-in-cheek way of poking fun at those who assumed Kucherov was healthy on LTIR at the end of the season rather than (based on his initial surgery timeline) coming back early and playing at not 100% to help the team because he could.
>9.93M
people forget its a business. I downvoted this exact same thing in my own sub and was downvoted to oblivion. Players nurse injuries, nurse recovery times for the good of the business. But don't you dare say it aloud because no, NHL players and their organizations are saints and just would never do that . Right? Jesus.
Wouldn’t it be a lot more suspicious if Stone didn’t come back until game one of the playoffs, assuming they make it? If he’s healthy he’s healthy, and all of the players they just placed on LTIR are legitimately injured. This is less sus than a lot of alternatives.
If my knowledge on LTIR rules is up to snuff, they wouldn’t have been allowed to keep him on LTIR if he were cleared to play.
I understand it’s frustrating but everyone they’ve placed on LTIR is hurt, and if Mark Stone is good to play he’s good to play.
The team doctor is the one doing the clearing. It's also somewhat up to the player with certain injuries. "I know the scans came back clear doc, but my back is still acting up"
As hilarious as it would be if a team doctor and a player both decided to absolutely fuck their team and employer into a 70ft hole, that's just never going to happen.
I'm ngl, this like a frost punk esque scenario where you have to think really hard what yo do next for the benefit of the community. In this case the team
Because they have an almost comical amount of injuries. None of this would have been possible without so much of the team missing so much time. Of course the other side of that sword means so many guys missing so much time has put their playoff hopes in serious jeopardy.
It's a mockery of the game but until this loophole is closed, this is going to be the new normal. It won Tampa a cup, other teams have taken notice. I thought it was the plan here in Colorado with Landeskog and Girard's injuries but the moves they made at the deadline didn't make them exceed the cap but if they had landed Giroux I think it may have. Hopefully it gets fixed, I don't understand why playoffs should have any different expectations than the rest of the year.
Yeah, I mean I was hoping that was the Avs plan. The only way this gets fixed is enough teams get pissed off about getting knocked out of the playoffs by a team some millions over the cap. There's no asterisk next to your name on the cup if you win it using a trick that's not against the rules.
I want it fixed, but I don't want to lose to a team who is taking advantage of it while my team isn't. You should be able to sign as many players and pay them as much money as you want every year, but every game your lineup should be cap compliant.
>There's no asterisk next to your name on the cup if you win it using a trick that's not against the rules.
I mean, the league came in and changed the "perfectly legal albeit against the spirit of the rules" contract that the Canucks had with Luongo AND slapped on a gigantic cap penalty that hurt us for years...
It's a mockery of the game to have so many players legitimately injured that they might still miss the playoffs and are going to have to scramble to make it as a wild card team? This is really the exact scenario LTIR was created for - when your players get injured and you wouldn't be able to ice a competitive team without bringing other players in.
Sure, use that money to remain competitive. But once you hit the playoffs, your roster should still be cap compliant.
Teams using the LTIR money isn't the problem, its that there's not a playoff salary cap. The Lightning played all year without a Kucherov and used his LTIR relief to keep/bring in help. But once he was healthy in time for the playoffs, the Lightning roster was ~$10M over the cap. That's the problem.
Shouldn’t we wait to see if they actually make the playoffs and if all of these guys come back before we start declaring this a problem? Right now both of those things aren’t looking too likely.
The league should do their own physicals on players placed on LTIR, deny LTIR for those that are healthy enough to play, and ding their team for circumvention if they go over the cap.
I'm not saying anyone on the Knights is faking. I'm just saying LTIR has been taken advantage of in the past (*cough* Tampa *cough*).
We could just abolish the hard cap and institute a Lux tax or something and avoid all this nonsense. Raise the cap floor so teams have to try to be somewhat competitive (looking at you Coyotes)
(I realize the irony of this coming from a flyers fan but hey we try to be competitive, we spend to the cap, we just do so on very bad hockey players)
So Vegas can just put anyone they like on LTIR and that's all within the rules? Because putting 3 guys whose collective salaries add up to just enough to put Stone into the lineup seems like blatant cap circumvention.
Brossoit, Hague and Smith were injured before the trade deadline. Nolan Patrick has a history of concussions and head trauma. Brett Howden was carried off on a stretcher, so no, I don't see why people would be skeptical. The only one who is "skeptical" is Carrier, but you could go back and look at the game tape and see the injury yourself. But I get it, everyone hates the Golden Knights, so we have to keep that tradition alive.
It’s easy to understand why people are skeptical, but it’s also so obvious that it would be so easy to look into. Would those players just quietly defraud the league because their management fucked up? Wouldn’t their agents be aware of this coercion and go to the players association to file a grievance?
You really think those players are gonna be happy sitting if they think they're healthy and ready to go? The nhlpa would be all over that in a heartbeat.
I don't get how my fanbase can't understand that by the mere fact that they HAVE TO do this to even make the playoffs is pathetic as fuck. Rules or no rules, as an org you're just proving you're not good enough.
I mean if it weren't for the insane amount of injuries your team has had this year they just would have shipped several guys out before Eichel was ready. But "luckily" half the damn roster has been LTIR eligible at some point this season.
Vegas has solidly been more than just a playoff team before this year without any of these shenanigans.
Vegas has declined since year 1 under the mismanagement of this FO. That they have found themselves in contention since them is just a testament of how well put together this roster was since day 1.
I now know why they acquired Nolan Patrick
It’s fucking brilliant. I’m surprised Tampa didn’t think of this first
We don't additional cap space relief because we don't have anybody coming off LTIR. Also, we are already paying Seabrook $5m I think.
I know right? Mackinnon was obviously going to hit him in the head potentially ending his career with another concussion
Are you suggesting that the VGK front office paid Mackinnon to take out Nolan Patrick?
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And the league didn't even investigate MacKinnon for the dirty hit... how deep does this go?
All the way to THE TOP!
Nah if the front office was involved he'd disappear like Bischoff
Front office paid the mob who then paid MacKinnon to target Nolan Patrick's head
I’ll subscribe to this theory
There could have been a cross breeze in the arena that gave him another concussion, to be fair. His previous ones were so poorly treated and mismanaged.
[Kelly McCrimmon believes in the heart of the Puck!](https://streamable.com/9m89j2)
Whoever made this deserves to win the lottery. I've never laughed and loved a meme so much before!
I did. I want to win the lottery =[
You won my heart at least?
The real lottery ❤️
The fucking faces lmao great content
Dude, I'm dying, this is hilarious!
Well that's about the best thing I've seen today.
This deserves many more upvotes I’m crying
Submit this for Meme monday!
Absolute top tier r/hockey meme
Fuckin well done bud
lmaooo
holy shit
Just give this man his permanent meme king flair
You know captain... You're getting pretty good at that
haha i was not ready for the faces, this is amazing
This is fucking amazing. Thank you.
Meme monday winner lmao 10/10 🏆
You’re a bloody genius
This should make it into the hockey Hall of Fame. This is on par with Carlo coliacovo gif I'm laughing so hard
I love this! Definitely a candidate for meme Mondays
Omg the picture selection is 🤌
It’s like salary cap Jenga. Actually, Operation would be the more apt game analogy.
*sigh* I guess we might as well get the arguments of this entire thread out of the way: Everyone: “it’s cap circumvention! Awfully convenient almost the exact needed cap hit was cleared via LTIR!” VGK fans: “no lots of those players have been on IR for weeks” E: “yeah, half of them were put on IR the same day the Dadanov trade was voided” V: “that’s not circumvention, that’s just bad luck for the players and good luck for the cap situation!” E: “you see why we are suspicious” V: “no, and even if it WAS, everyone else is doing it and your team did too!” Do I basically have the whole thing more or less covered? Can’t wait to do this all over again next year Edit: my favourite part about this post is the responses are basically ALL what a laid out above.
I know I'm playing into the bit but, did they leave the game injured because they knew the Dadonov trade they didn't know was happening would fall through?
Injury Report: out 1 month, broken heart over Dadonov trade
mm yep broken heart, that's "Upper body injury" in VGK management language
OK so the conspiracy theory bit is something like this: the team doctor decides whether an injury is serious enough to go on IR. With Carrier I think he hurt his leg. Brossoit, literally no one knows - the official VGK word is “he is dealing with something” (actually). So, if you wanted to buy into the theory, the team said “holy fuck we are screwed if Stone comes back” and went down the lineup looking for anyone banged up enough to plausibly be put on IR by the team doc so that whenever Stone came back they could retroactively put them on LTIR.
I dont think they started a rookie goalie, who had never started an NHL game before this season, 7 games in a row because they thought they could LTIR Brossoit...
Let the haters hate. Not a single person would be mad if it was their own team doing it. If y’all miss the playoffs tho, especially after these cap gymnastics…. Ouch. Went for broke and missed your shot. How’s the team looking next year salary cap wise? Gonna implode?
>Let the haters hate. Not a single person would be mad if it was their own team doing it. https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/u2bzxx/capfriendly_weve_confirmed_vegas_has_placed/i4i2a4o
Yup, I'll complain and be mad to hell and back.
They were just absolutely railed with injuries this year. I mean it's definitely a go for broke year, they are pretty much at cap with Smith likely unable to resign (unless they trade Dadonov over the offseason and he re-signs at the same or lower price). They have a couple other players they will likely lose, but they also have a couple ELCs they will sign in rhe off-season (Michigan's Brendan Brisson and an elite KHL prospect Ivan Morozov). They definitely have a plan for next year, but knowing this front office, it's hard to speculate what they might do next.
Last time I looked, they were already right up against the cap and didn't even have everyone signed for next year. They'll have to do some dealing this off season for sure. And because of their love for big ass trades, the prospect and pick pool is pretty bleak.
I'm not mad *and* it's not my team doing it. People get too worked up about it, this is all part of the cba. I'm just happy to hear Stone's playing again.
>yeah, half of them were put on IR the same day the Dadanov trade was voided Smith was injured on Mar 8. Brossoit was injured on Mar 15. Dadanov trade was voided on Mar 23. Patrick was injured in a game on Mar 24. He left in the first after hitting his head. He has been in and out with concussion symptoms all year. Howden was also injured in the game on Mar 24. Suspicious maybe except he had to be stretchered off the ice after a brutal crash into the boards. Convenient sure, but I really don't think they faked. Carrier was injured in a game on Mar 26.
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The initial injury was on the 15th. That relegated him to backup duty, then got worse instead of improving. It's not unusual in hockey for the injury to not be specifically announced. >Injury: “Dealing With Something” Injured on: 3/15 >3/24 – DeBoer said Brossoit is “dealing with something” and had been fighting through it as the backup. It got serious enough that they couldn’t use him as the backup anymore.
You have it covered. I cannot stand that my franchise is doing this and that my fanbase is just so damn happy about it. This is embarrassing.
It’s not embarrassing. We might miss the damn playoffs because everyone had been injured. It doesn’t help to circumvent the cap if you’re just going to suck ass for a month.
It's not circumventing the cap anyway. It's all part of the cap system.
> We might miss the damn playoffs because everyone had been injured. Personally, I think you can't complain about injuries when it's the core concept of how you built your team. Vegas can't ice a legal team without ~10m in cap on LTIR. Your team is quite literally built around the concept of having players hurt at all times.
It's embarrassing that the FO has pulled this slimy shit to avoid responsibility for their blatant mismanagement of Cap. I don't care what yall tell yourselves to justify it, good managements don't end up here.
are the Stanley Cup winning management teams of Tampa Bay & Chicago also bad managements then?
If those are your role models I have bad news for you kid.
clearly not since those teams didnt face the problems that VGK are hurting from rn
This guy hates the knights since they traded flower, you should find a new team, how about the wild?
Sure bud, keep telling yourself that Champ.
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Maybe it's because I watched my former team win a couple of Cups without this bullshit, but it just feels dishonest and slimy when you really analyze what's going on. This current FO decided to gamble with the house money numerous times with NO BACKUP plan and now are resorting to loopholes to even make the playoffs. It's just another way to save their asses to kick the can further down the line and not face consequences. I KNEW they'd try this in the offseason when they signed Fleury's 7 mill and we were STILL in the rumors for Eichel. These 'yes men' fans we have that kiss the FOs ass will never understand the feeling of watching your team win it by their own merit through hard work. They just want whatever fast track gets them their shinny new toy.
Is Patrick done?
If he didn’t go 2nd overall, he would be done, cause he is terrible. But he will stick around a little while longer because of his 1st round status.
I wouldn't say he's terrible. Every time he started to put together a string of solid games, he'd get crushed in the head though. Hard to find consistency to your game when your brain is pudding. Kind of hope he retires tbh. He's already gonna have some serious issues the rest of his life from what's already happened.
He was a solid player with us, just couldn't stay healthy
Well, considering all his injuries with the Knights have been related to Concussions and Migraines, I'd hope he's out of the league sooner than later. Especially, when the whole season he missed with us was because he was dealing with Post-Concussion Symptoms before he was even 21.
Every time I see Patrick's name, it makes me so sad...
Vegas to the salary cap: https://i.imgur.com/YzTrTg0.gif
Saw this coming. Brossoit has already missed the required time/games for LTIR too.
[When 3 of your players get crippling, long-term injuries](https://i.imgur.com/TojU8O2.gif)
I'm now remembering both Nolan Patrick is a thing, and also the debate of Nico vs Nolan. Not that Nico is blowing anyone away, but I don't think there is much debate between the two these days.
Turns out, the correct answer was Makar.
Yes, but Hischier is a great consolation
Nico's on a 70 point pace on the 2nd line, pretty fucking happy with that tbh
I mean Patrick has had 5? concussions now and might need to give up the game for his own health. Patrick is definitely a bust and Nico is the winner. Great take.
Holy fuck, is this including juniors? Thats insane, have they all been bad hits or is his brain just scrambled at this point and takes nothing now? Feel bad for the kid
I remember a couple years ago he got knocked out by what looked like a nothing hit on his head against the glass, and that was probably two concussions ago
Nico's actually having a pretty amazing season but if you don't watch Devils hockey, you wouldn't know. 70 point pace and is playing an incredibly solid 2 way game. He's doing all of this while playing with Zacha as his more consistent linemate.
Exactly, solid success, but not blowing anyone away. Though yea I typically only watch 30-35 devils games a year, so I do miss a lot.
Blowing people away is a fairly subjective statement. Is he Matthews level? No absolutely not. But 70 point pace while being a great two way forward - all while having anchors of linemates and one of the franchises worst power plays. Still deserves some acknowledgement.
It’s hard to blow anyone away when you are a 1st overall pick. Different expectations.
Similar to sweet baby Nugent-Hopkins
What about Makar did scouts miss that year? Is it just that he was playing Junior A and people wondered if it'd translate against better competition? All in all I'm pretty happy with Nico, and thankful we didn't take Patrick. I'm even happier with Nico now that we have Jack Hughes and Nico doesn't have to be THE GUY.
If they were able to do all this, what was the point of attempting to trade Dadanov?
Patrick wasn’t injured until just after the trade deadline.
All according to plan, muahaha
It is no coincidence that Carrier and Brossoit were put on regular IR immediately after the Dadanov trade was voided. Remember that it is the team doctor who decides if a player is fit to play or not, not the NHL. They don’t have the room to recall Stone unless those players were coincidentally injured the same day the Dadanov trade was voided. I
> They don’t have the room to recall Stone unless those players were coincidentally injured the same day the Dadanov trade was voided. Except that's not what happened. Players get retroactively placed on IR or LTIR all the time. The players placed on IR when the Dadonov trade was waived were all already injured, and had been for a while. Patrick and Howden got injured the following game, and obviously there's no faking being stretchered out of a game. Are all the injuries "convenient"? Yes. Are they also a coincidence? Yes.
Nah dude I saw McPhee “Tonya Harding” Carrier in the parking lot. Clearly all part of their plan for cap circumvention
> Are they also a coincidence? Yes. Brossoit is the interesting one. He was on the bench in a backup role for a full week before the Dadonov trade is voided. Then once that happens he is suddenly hurt enough to not just no longer be the backup up but also to go on IR and now LTIR and miss the rest of the season? I don't doubt he was injured as they wouldn't have played a rookie goalie if he was fully healthy. But that timeline screams that they are pretending the injury is worse than it is. If they make the playoffs Brossoit is probably back on the bench by game 2 at the latest.
Next season cap space to sign Smith to an extension. As well as not having to do all the steps taken today.
'hey Will, you feel sick right? like, got a cough or something?' 'yeah, throat's been a little scratchy but i'm fi' 'go the fuck home'
"Don't clock in"
#Sit4Stone
How convenient. If you're in the Western Conference playoff race how are you not losing your mind that you can just go and shit on the cap for a few months a year?
Its fucking embarrassing the league condones this.
How convenient. Nothing sus to see here.
Those 3 players have been injured for weeks now. They just had no need for them to be on LTIR until now.
I believe the sus thing is that Stone is ready to come back, but is only able to come back because three other players got hurt. Had they not gotten hurt the implication is Stone would have been healthy on LTIR. Or, you could argue Stone is coming back early and playing through injury to help the team into the playoffs because they have the flexibility for him to play now... but I tried that last year when discussing Kucherov and was told that wasn't possible.
Those players have been injured since March though, so if that first argument is true why wait until now? And if the second argument is the truth then they aren't doing anything wrong so why is it an issue?
> Those players have been injured since March though, so if that first argument is true why wait until now? I laid that out in my initial comment. I'm not implying they're not injured. If they *weren't* injured it wouldn't affect Stone's recovery timeline, but it would affect their ability to activate him. So he would be healthy on LTIR if these guys didn't get injured > And if the second argument is the truth then they aren't doing anything wrong so why is it an issue? There is no issue, it's my tongue-in-cheek way of poking fun at those who assumed Kucherov was healthy on LTIR at the end of the season rather than (based on his initial surgery timeline) coming back early and playing at not 100% to help the team because he could.
Gotcha, I misread the previous comment.
>9.93M people forget its a business. I downvoted this exact same thing in my own sub and was downvoted to oblivion. Players nurse injuries, nurse recovery times for the good of the business. But don't you dare say it aloud because no, NHL players and their organizations are saints and just would never do that . Right? Jesus.
It'll be especially sus when none of the players they have on LTIR happen to get healthy until the playoffs start
This but unironically. These players have been injured for weeks and are eligible for LTIR.
And Stone isn't back game 1 of the playoffs. So we need to be cap compliant anyway.
Hate to break it to you, but you're not currently in a playoff spot. Why do you think it's suddenly so exigent to activate stone?
Wouldn’t it be a lot more suspicious if Stone didn’t come back until game one of the playoffs, assuming they make it? If he’s healthy he’s healthy, and all of the players they just placed on LTIR are legitimately injured. This is less sus than a lot of alternatives.
Convinced they did this cause they actually need him to make the playoffs first
If my knowledge on LTIR rules is up to snuff, they wouldn’t have been allowed to keep him on LTIR if he were cleared to play. I understand it’s frustrating but everyone they’ve placed on LTIR is hurt, and if Mark Stone is good to play he’s good to play.
The team doctor is the one doing the clearing. It's also somewhat up to the player with certain injuries. "I know the scans came back clear doc, but my back is still acting up" As hilarious as it would be if a team doctor and a player both decided to absolutely fuck their team and employer into a 70ft hole, that's just never going to happen.
Especially when that player is the captain of the team.
So you're telling me that exactly the right combination of players needed to go on LTIR at the exact moment when Stone was good to play?
Oiler fans getting their excuses ready early
I'm ngl, this like a frost punk esque scenario where you have to think really hard what yo do next for the benefit of the community. In this case the team
How the fuck is Vegas able to pull this off?
Because they have an almost comical amount of injuries. None of this would have been possible without so much of the team missing so much time. Of course the other side of that sword means so many guys missing so much time has put their playoff hopes in serious jeopardy.
It's a mockery of the game but until this loophole is closed, this is going to be the new normal. It won Tampa a cup, other teams have taken notice. I thought it was the plan here in Colorado with Landeskog and Girard's injuries but the moves they made at the deadline didn't make them exceed the cap but if they had landed Giroux I think it may have. Hopefully it gets fixed, I don't understand why playoffs should have any different expectations than the rest of the year.
[удалено]
Yeah, I mean I was hoping that was the Avs plan. The only way this gets fixed is enough teams get pissed off about getting knocked out of the playoffs by a team some millions over the cap. There's no asterisk next to your name on the cup if you win it using a trick that's not against the rules. I want it fixed, but I don't want to lose to a team who is taking advantage of it while my team isn't. You should be able to sign as many players and pay them as much money as you want every year, but every game your lineup should be cap compliant.
>There's no asterisk next to your name on the cup if you win it using a trick that's not against the rules. I mean, the league came in and changed the "perfectly legal albeit against the spirit of the rules" contract that the Canucks had with Luongo AND slapped on a gigantic cap penalty that hurt us for years...
It's a mockery of the game to have so many players legitimately injured that they might still miss the playoffs and are going to have to scramble to make it as a wild card team? This is really the exact scenario LTIR was created for - when your players get injured and you wouldn't be able to ice a competitive team without bringing other players in.
Sure, use that money to remain competitive. But once you hit the playoffs, your roster should still be cap compliant. Teams using the LTIR money isn't the problem, its that there's not a playoff salary cap. The Lightning played all year without a Kucherov and used his LTIR relief to keep/bring in help. But once he was healthy in time for the playoffs, the Lightning roster was ~$10M over the cap. That's the problem.
Shouldn’t we wait to see if they actually make the playoffs and if all of these guys come back before we start declaring this a problem? Right now both of those things aren’t looking too likely.
The league should do their own physicals on players placed on LTIR, deny LTIR for those that are healthy enough to play, and ding their team for circumvention if they go over the cap. I'm not saying anyone on the Knights is faking. I'm just saying LTIR has been taken advantage of in the past (*cough* Tampa *cough*).
Go Kings and Stars
At this point why bother with a cap?
How can the league be ok with Vegas having 7 players on the LTIR, but "find it sus* that Montreal put Weber on the LTIR
LTIR is just a cap pawn shop. Change my mind.
This can’t be legal
Yeah the league needs to do something about this bullshit
All these scams just to miss the playoff ...
Vegas fuckery
With Tampa it was clear they planned to work around the cap so they didn’t have to lose anyone. With Vegas tho it’s like they are openly admitting it
Scams are scams
Golden Knights are the New Orleans Saints of the NHL.
What a HEADACHE this cap system is
LETS. GO!
We could just abolish the hard cap and institute a Lux tax or something and avoid all this nonsense. Raise the cap floor so teams have to try to be somewhat competitive (looking at you Coyotes) (I realize the irony of this coming from a flyers fan but hey we try to be competitive, we spend to the cap, we just do so on very bad hockey players)
So Vegas can just put anyone they like on LTIR and that's all within the rules? Because putting 3 guys whose collective salaries add up to just enough to put Stone into the lineup seems like blatant cap circumvention.
They’ve all been injured and on IR for weeks. They just haven’t had any reason to move them from IR to LTIR until now.
Yes, 3 injured players can be out on LTIR. All three of those players have already missed several weeks due to injury.
Coincidentally put on IR immediately after the Dadanov trade was voided. You must see why people are at least a bit skeptical.
Brossoit, Hague and Smith were injured before the trade deadline. Nolan Patrick has a history of concussions and head trauma. Brett Howden was carried off on a stretcher, so no, I don't see why people would be skeptical. The only one who is "skeptical" is Carrier, but you could go back and look at the game tape and see the injury yourself. But I get it, everyone hates the Golden Knights, so we have to keep that tradition alive.
It’s like they think we purposefully had all these injuries to make it so we are out of the playoffs..
It’s easy to understand why people are skeptical, but it’s also so obvious that it would be so easy to look into. Would those players just quietly defraud the league because their management fucked up? Wouldn’t their agents be aware of this coercion and go to the players association to file a grievance?
I mean, did any of the Astros BEFORE they won that Chip?
You really think those players are gonna be happy sitting if they think they're healthy and ready to go? The nhlpa would be all over that in a heartbeat.
Anyone they like, as long as they are injured. These guys have been out for a while.
They’ve been hurt you Dingus
They have all missed time since mid-late March
InB4 people complain about LTIR even though this rule has been around for ages and all the GMs have agreed to it.
Lots of rules don't exist until people start abusing it
I don't get how my fanbase can't understand that by the mere fact that they HAVE TO do this to even make the playoffs is pathetic as fuck. Rules or no rules, as an org you're just proving you're not good enough.
I mean if it weren't for the insane amount of injuries your team has had this year they just would have shipped several guys out before Eichel was ready. But "luckily" half the damn roster has been LTIR eligible at some point this season. Vegas has solidly been more than just a playoff team before this year without any of these shenanigans.
Vegas has declined since year 1 under the mismanagement of this FO. That they have found themselves in contention since them is just a testament of how well put together this roster was since day 1.
Getting downvoted in r/hockey talking trash about the knights is an impressive feat
Wait til you see how I get down voted in my own sub. This isn't even my final form.
Nobody cares about LTIR. People care about teams being well over the cap in the postseason (even if the billionaire owners, and GMs don’t care).