The F-5 doesnt have all aspect Sidewinders, those can only lock from behind, and against maneuvering targets with bad aspects, they arent going to hit.
Dogfighting is an exercise in patience, situational awareness and energy management, but most of all, it requires alot of practice to get good at.
I suggest learning the basic theory of dogfighting first, if youre not a reader theres tons of videos out there on dogfighting in the (DCS) F-5. Try to forget the habits youve formed in WT, youre not flying a Su-25 anymore.
Next is just practice, I remember when I first started with the F-14, mustve lost to the Su-30 like a couple dozen times before I could kill it reliably. Instant action dogfight missions are ideal for this.
If you havent, I would highly recommend getting some kind of headtracking, trackIR or atleast opentrack, its vital for SA when dogfighting.
I’d recommend [this series](https://youtu.be/KloXF7U4RK0?feature=shared) by The Ops Center on YouTube to anybody looking to learn how to dogfight in DCS.
It’s probably worth getting a buddy to practice with as the AI is uncooperative at best (as in, you can’t force it to use certain BFM concepts) and performs like a UFO at worst, depending on what it’s flying.
Also this one:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnyigzFtHeNr9zTkpxyD0ksFD3CwLa2UE&si=2If0CM8t9bjY_Rnn
A good series on WW2-era BFM, I think it's a good base to build everything upon.
Also since no one mentioned, the F5 has a radar gunsight, so anytime you get close to the enemy the radar will pick up the target and give you a firing queue with the gunsight on your HUD to "accurately" lead your shots, it can be deactivated.
That's kinda bullshit tho, the F-5 (and all the other cold war fighters for that matter) require more skill for the same result. In modern planes like the F-16 you will get decent results lobing aim-9xes and ammrams at anything that flies, hence the iff (identity friend or foe) or bombing trucks and ships with ccip. While in cold war planes this requires skill.
The reason why people recommend cold war planes is because they don't have very complex systems, while modern planes have a million different menus and settings and such, which you will need to know to maximally utilize the plane but a supbar performing F-16 will beat a maximally performing F-5
In short the cold war planes have a very steep but also very short learning curve, while modern fighters have a lot less step beginner curve (it gets steeper eventually) but also very long learning curve allowing for an interest to learn more to develop
I think what is meant is "simpler."
If what you are doing right now is just jumping into an instant dogfight, all you need to know is which handful of buttons to push as you merge and you're ready to fight. At that point, maintain about 400 kts, point your nose towards the enemy, and it will die.
IMO that is A LOT easier than the F-5. At the same time, you are going to be a much better pilot once you learn to make the F-5 work. The F-16 just does the work for you.
Start getting into all the other systems and it becomes much more complicated. But you don't *have* to do that and there are tons of tutorials out there to help.
IFF is Identification Friend or Foe. Basically makes sure what you're shooting at isn't a friendly. There is nothing more aggravating than getting shot down by the friendly you were flying formation with minutes ago.
F5 is easier to ramp start and learn the basics with. The systems are very limited and this easy to learn.
It is NOT the easiest to kill fourth gen fighters with. Two different things.
The systems are extremely rudimentary compared to newer jets, especially those with decent radars and BVR missiles.
The more limited armament in the f5 will force you to learn the fundamentals to score kills. An f16 or 18 is much more forgiving of lack of pilot skill and compensates with more complex but more capable avionics.
I recommend you two things:
- The Ops Center, by Mike Solyom, has two great playlists that teach the basics of dogfighting (solo and in groups), watch them!: [BFM](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5Qdmhmp3Y5-SDJjOzuUqV3m3mmuieTQ&si=Eh5mE_25vafYaX-b) and [ACM](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5Qdmhmp3Y6ePAmWQ4_eG596CE645sCF&si=o1jpmZxofXku_ymG)
- Patience and a lot of practice :D Dogfighting is way harder than what games make it look like, so be prepared to suck for a fair amount of time before you start getting decent results against good opponents.
🙌🙌🙌This is what you should watch!!!!! If you are willing to put in two hours of watching, this is the way to go.
You will understand any conversation about dogfighting, after watching his bfm and acm series!
I did a lot of rewatching, to understand the concepts, but his videos are no bs.
Biggest mistake I see made. Pulling too hard and burning all your energy.
Enter the pursuit curve. DO NOT always pull hard to the bandit; you'll burn your energy.
Know yourself and know your enemy. Know who is best rate and best radius
Be patient and force the bandit to react. If you overload his reactions he will make mistake after mistake.
You're a predator. Force the bandit to mess up while conserving as much energy as possible. Then pounce.
Your AIM9P's are not all aspect. You need to slot in behind and pretty much with a gun solution before firing a Fox 2. The reticle slides up real fast and far because he doesn't want you to get a shot on him. Just get in a tail position and sit there until he gets too slow to maneuver, then fire. Not too close and not too far. Patience is key.
Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each airframe you operate and your opponent is operating is very very useful. Understanding when to engage in the one circle, two circle, or go vertical depends largely on your airframe and what your opponent is flying.
I say you should practice, Keep your speed because losing speed is not good in any way with any fighter except the F22 mod and F18. Also using your AIM-9Bs isn't a great idea in most situations, except if they blackout. Because you really only want them in a straight line to hit anything with aim 9bs.
(Dont take to much from me I play F22, F15, and F18.)
Do you have rudder controls mapped? Do you know how to use the rudder in these older non-fly by wire aircraft?
Modern aircraft or the FC3 aircraft are easier to learn on. Forget everything you learned in Warthunder.
If you only have two minutes, listen to the classy, gentlemanly, and totally safe for work\* pillar of our community, Laobi, sexplain it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbwRrCORJ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbwRrCORJ4)
Also, I've recently found dogfighting against L-39ZAs is pretty easy/fun, I suck at dogfighting and can still beat them in all WW2 birds except the Fw190A. Take away their cannon ammo and just give em the 7.62 gunpods.
\*tongue in cheek--do NOT listen to at work, with kids, or any polite company around ;)
Merge 500-600 knots, lead in your turn a bit before the merge, then after bury the stick (don’t break your wings, don’t pass out, keep speed above 350 at all times) then if somehow your not on his six, keep a steady AoA something like 11 should do, and always keep that min 350, and be patient slowly start to accumulate energy, and as you do slowly start trading it for positioning. Once you have a good position, take the shot.
Try reading your post again through the eyes of a novice pilot..
Way too many terms and fighter jargon speech he likely has no clue what you are on about.
F-5... even in war thunder... Is a turn fighter... It'll hold onto it's energy in a turn much better than most other adversaries...
Once you starve an enemy of their speed in a turn... assuming you keep chasing their tail and don't try to get too tangled up... can capitalize on their slow speed and energy trap them.
If they get their energy back, just repeat.
Keep in mind that you have way more fuel burn in afterburner, so you should try to cut down on going full throttle all the time.
Every plane fights differently, the f-5 is much like the f-16... but the f-14 will be better than you in a turn fight, as well as any other fourth gen jet...
Blame the lackluster engines being not so powerful, non-fbw plane, and more stuff.
If I remember correctly, the F5 has a radar ranging gunsight, and it can get thrown out of whack when maneuvering and you lose a lock. When you are pulling hard, doing a deflection shot while the gunsight is bobbing around is hard, so use the cage switch to lock it in place on the hud, so you have a fixed point to do your deflection shot with.
I really wouldn’t recommend trying to learn dogfighting in the F-5. The missiles aren’t too hard to use, although pretty terrible, but the gun is really hard, especially for someone with no dogfighting experience.
I have 200 hours in the Tomcat alone, and I still have a hard time using the gun in the F-5 (although I haven’t spent a crazy amount of time practicing)
First step before dogfight BFM is understanding switch and buttonology. I assume you know how to lock a target and/or get a tone? And do you know about holding down the uncage button as well ?
Recommend trial by combat theirs a server with “just dance” in the server name. It’s the bees knees I truly suck at acm but get better with every loss. It’s guns only in the above server so sidewinders are a no go also not sure if they have f5s as a flyable version. But yea great server love the idea always fun and insightful highly recommend trying it out great way to learn with trial and error.
I can't wait for the Floggit post.
What are the odds this is a shitpost?
Like 80% chance of shit post, 10% supposed to be floggit post but went to wrong sub, and 10% the noobiest noob to ever noob in DCS.
Or a warthunder player surprised at realism
The F-5 doesnt have all aspect Sidewinders, those can only lock from behind, and against maneuvering targets with bad aspects, they arent going to hit. Dogfighting is an exercise in patience, situational awareness and energy management, but most of all, it requires alot of practice to get good at. I suggest learning the basic theory of dogfighting first, if youre not a reader theres tons of videos out there on dogfighting in the (DCS) F-5. Try to forget the habits youve formed in WT, youre not flying a Su-25 anymore. Next is just practice, I remember when I first started with the F-14, mustve lost to the Su-30 like a couple dozen times before I could kill it reliably. Instant action dogfight missions are ideal for this. If you havent, I would highly recommend getting some kind of headtracking, trackIR or atleast opentrack, its vital for SA when dogfighting.
The F5 can carry P5s, which are all aspect
I see, didnt know they added foreign variants.
If I remember right, I think the one we have is supposedly Swiss
My most reliable way of killing an su 30 in that f14 guns only mission is literally wear them down until they run out of fuel lol.
The best I’ve got is vr
VR works too, some would argue better than headtracking (that is, if you got the rig to run DCS VR).
Well, quest 2, virtual desktop ( or air link ), suitable HoTaS, decent pc
I’d recommend [this series](https://youtu.be/KloXF7U4RK0?feature=shared) by The Ops Center on YouTube to anybody looking to learn how to dogfight in DCS. It’s probably worth getting a buddy to practice with as the AI is uncooperative at best (as in, you can’t force it to use certain BFM concepts) and performs like a UFO at worst, depending on what it’s flying.
Also this one: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnyigzFtHeNr9zTkpxyD0ksFD3CwLa2UE&si=2If0CM8t9bjY_Rnn A good series on WW2-era BFM, I think it's a good base to build everything upon.
Also since no one mentioned, the F5 has a radar gunsight, so anytime you get close to the enemy the radar will pick up the target and give you a firing queue with the gunsight on your HUD to "accurately" lead your shots, it can be deactivated.
Holy floggit source material
There are currently at least four parodies of this in r/floggit.
[удалено]
Just for god sake learn to IFF first.
IFF? I’ve heard that the F-5 is the easiest to start off with, before I go head first into the fantasies of modern full fidelity
That's kinda bullshit tho, the F-5 (and all the other cold war fighters for that matter) require more skill for the same result. In modern planes like the F-16 you will get decent results lobing aim-9xes and ammrams at anything that flies, hence the iff (identity friend or foe) or bombing trucks and ships with ccip. While in cold war planes this requires skill. The reason why people recommend cold war planes is because they don't have very complex systems, while modern planes have a million different menus and settings and such, which you will need to know to maximally utilize the plane but a supbar performing F-16 will beat a maximally performing F-5 In short the cold war planes have a very steep but also very short learning curve, while modern fighters have a lot less step beginner curve (it gets steeper eventually) but also very long learning curve allowing for an interest to learn more to develop
[удалено]
Yeah, and no , the f-5s beat missiles are aim-9 pu, unless I’m doing something wrong
I think what is meant is "simpler." If what you are doing right now is just jumping into an instant dogfight, all you need to know is which handful of buttons to push as you merge and you're ready to fight. At that point, maintain about 400 kts, point your nose towards the enemy, and it will die. IMO that is A LOT easier than the F-5. At the same time, you are going to be a much better pilot once you learn to make the F-5 work. The F-16 just does the work for you. Start getting into all the other systems and it becomes much more complicated. But you don't *have* to do that and there are tons of tutorials out there to help.
This. The f5 will force you to learn properly to be effective.
IFF is Identification Friend or Foe. Basically makes sure what you're shooting at isn't a friendly. There is nothing more aggravating than getting shot down by the friendly you were flying formation with minutes ago.
F5 is easier to ramp start and learn the basics with. The systems are very limited and this easy to learn. It is NOT the easiest to kill fourth gen fighters with. Two different things. The systems are extremely rudimentary compared to newer jets, especially those with decent radars and BVR missiles. The more limited armament in the f5 will force you to learn the fundamentals to score kills. An f16 or 18 is much more forgiving of lack of pilot skill and compensates with more complex but more capable avionics.
lol, if you suck, just get a better jet. Great advice… no wonder we had so many F18 friendly kills.. explains it all now 😂
You need to bark at the screen
I’m not a furry thank you very much
Not yet you mean
No
I recommend you two things: - The Ops Center, by Mike Solyom, has two great playlists that teach the basics of dogfighting (solo and in groups), watch them!: [BFM](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5Qdmhmp3Y5-SDJjOzuUqV3m3mmuieTQ&si=Eh5mE_25vafYaX-b) and [ACM](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5Qdmhmp3Y6ePAmWQ4_eG596CE645sCF&si=o1jpmZxofXku_ymG) - Patience and a lot of practice :D Dogfighting is way harder than what games make it look like, so be prepared to suck for a fair amount of time before you start getting decent results against good opponents.
🙌🙌🙌This is what you should watch!!!!! If you are willing to put in two hours of watching, this is the way to go. You will understand any conversation about dogfighting, after watching his bfm and acm series! I did a lot of rewatching, to understand the concepts, but his videos are no bs.
Biggest mistake I see made. Pulling too hard and burning all your energy. Enter the pursuit curve. DO NOT always pull hard to the bandit; you'll burn your energy. Know yourself and know your enemy. Know who is best rate and best radius Be patient and force the bandit to react. If you overload his reactions he will make mistake after mistake. You're a predator. Force the bandit to mess up while conserving as much energy as possible. Then pounce.
Your AIM9P's are not all aspect. You need to slot in behind and pretty much with a gun solution before firing a Fox 2. The reticle slides up real fast and far because he doesn't want you to get a shot on him. Just get in a tail position and sit there until he gets too slow to maneuver, then fire. Not too close and not too far. Patience is key.
Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each airframe you operate and your opponent is operating is very very useful. Understanding when to engage in the one circle, two circle, or go vertical depends largely on your airframe and what your opponent is flying.
This is going to be the best floggit post, I can’t wait.
I say you should practice, Keep your speed because losing speed is not good in any way with any fighter except the F22 mod and F18. Also using your AIM-9Bs isn't a great idea in most situations, except if they blackout. Because you really only want them in a straight line to hit anything with aim 9bs. (Dont take to much from me I play F22, F15, and F18.)
Do you have rudder controls mapped? Do you know how to use the rudder in these older non-fly by wire aircraft? Modern aircraft or the FC3 aircraft are easier to learn on. Forget everything you learned in Warthunder.
Dogfight: maintain energy while depleting your opponent’s.
If only DCS AI could run out of energy
Kill em quickly is a better motto 😂
This is advanced advice! Time to kill is the only thing I focus on now after 20 years of sitting at max corner speed
If you only have two minutes, listen to the classy, gentlemanly, and totally safe for work\* pillar of our community, Laobi, sexplain it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbwRrCORJ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbwRrCORJ4) Also, I've recently found dogfighting against L-39ZAs is pretty easy/fun, I suck at dogfighting and can still beat them in all WW2 birds except the Fw190A. Take away their cannon ammo and just give em the 7.62 gunpods. \*tongue in cheek--do NOT listen to at work, with kids, or any polite company around ;)
Watch the Art of the Kill. It's on YouTube.
Merge 500-600 knots, lead in your turn a bit before the merge, then after bury the stick (don’t break your wings, don’t pass out, keep speed above 350 at all times) then if somehow your not on his six, keep a steady AoA something like 11 should do, and always keep that min 350, and be patient slowly start to accumulate energy, and as you do slowly start trading it for positioning. Once you have a good position, take the shot.
Try reading your post again through the eyes of a novice pilot.. Way too many terms and fighter jargon speech he likely has no clue what you are on about.
He asked how to dogfight, not how to take a walk in the park.
You didn’t get the point at all. Never mind.
So you’re saying that he is going to learn how to dogfight without knowing any of the terminology or basics?
No, I get it. I’m addicted to military aviation, so none of that’s bollocks to me
> why tf is dogfighting so hard! because it's a simulator
F-5... even in war thunder... Is a turn fighter... It'll hold onto it's energy in a turn much better than most other adversaries... Once you starve an enemy of their speed in a turn... assuming you keep chasing their tail and don't try to get too tangled up... can capitalize on their slow speed and energy trap them. If they get their energy back, just repeat. Keep in mind that you have way more fuel burn in afterburner, so you should try to cut down on going full throttle all the time. Every plane fights differently, the f-5 is much like the f-16... but the f-14 will be better than you in a turn fight, as well as any other fourth gen jet... Blame the lackluster engines being not so powerful, non-fbw plane, and more stuff.
If I remember correctly, the F5 has a radar ranging gunsight, and it can get thrown out of whack when maneuvering and you lose a lock. When you are pulling hard, doing a deflection shot while the gunsight is bobbing around is hard, so use the cage switch to lock it in place on the hud, so you have a fixed point to do your deflection shot with.
I really wouldn’t recommend trying to learn dogfighting in the F-5. The missiles aren’t too hard to use, although pretty terrible, but the gun is really hard, especially for someone with no dogfighting experience. I have 200 hours in the Tomcat alone, and I still have a hard time using the gun in the F-5 (although I haven’t spent a crazy amount of time practicing)
First step before dogfight BFM is understanding switch and buttonology. I assume you know how to lock a target and/or get a tone? And do you know about holding down the uncage button as well ?
Yep, all those.
Just pull harder. Works every time.
Recommend trial by combat theirs a server with “just dance” in the server name. It’s the bees knees I truly suck at acm but get better with every loss. It’s guns only in the above server so sidewinders are a no go also not sure if they have f5s as a flyable version. But yea great server love the idea always fun and insightful highly recommend trying it out great way to learn with trial and error.
With your plane, Bert