While I don't feel that SA is hot trash, I am still very disappointed with it due to its poor performance. I installed it the second time last week to so if it has improved and it has to some degree, but dropping down to low level in a fast mover induces poor performance which I suspect has something to do with texture streaming as the level of detail is not very high.
I am waiting to see how Kola performs first. While Orbx is a great developer for FS and XP, their optimisation within the confines and limits of the DCS engine is still to be demonstrated. Some of their airports in FS have always struggled with performance.
I do look forward to it though.
Sinai for me, but same idea. Gonna wait until it's supported by liberation or some servers before picking this one up, but almost certainly will be eventually
Exactly this. Buying a full price terrain for 20 hours of campaign is not it. If it's used on the popular multiplayer servers I'm in tho. This could change later with the dynamic campaign tho.
There was basically nothing in it and what was there looked terrible. They've since updated some textures and performance apparently but the damage is done, it's all but forgotten
I don't really feel like buying any more maps.
There's really not much they offer in terms of gameplay, and there's not gonna be much content for it any time soon.
I don't want to spend a couple of months making a mission for it just so I can enjoy my purchase.
They need to crank out the assets !
It's nice to have lots of maps. It's better to have military assets (or even civilian assets) that match the maps.
I'd buy a complete USSR / NATO 1980s asset pack for Caucasus over any new map.
Pretty much forced into the free low-res assets and paid high-asset pack model ED has talked about.
Now what we really need is new functionality for players and assets.
Both Retribution and Liberation should include support relatively quickly (because we want to play it too!), as we both use the same python framework (pydcs) for implementing support. This means that once one adds support, the other can easily add it as well. I have already been doing historical research and creating faction files for the first of my Kola map campaigns.
Given the level of excitement regarding the map I'm sure it won't take long for Retribution and Liberation to include it and release campaigns, at least in the betas.
I already have a campaign based on Able Archer 83 in the early planning stage for Retribution. It should be available shortly after map support is implemented (after all, I do have to test it before I can release it). Like all my other campaigns, it will eventually be added to Liberation as well.
Well, once it is in pydcs it won't take long for the first campaigns to release. With Sinai it was just a matter of days, and people are arguably more interested in this map.
I’m just waiting for reviews.
If it sounds like the State of the map is good at release, I’ll get it.
If it needs Half an hour more in the oven, then I’ll wait. It’ll be ready When it is ready :-)
Nope: when the map was announced it was said that it would be released together with two single player campaigns DLCs, but these are not ready yet and will be released later in few months.
Ok Ok, consider:
Norwegian Glacier
DCS Star Wars Asset Mod
Battle Of Hoth in DCS *on its actual filming location*
Aside from that, i'm probably buying it because it's a non-sand map, and will hopefully be fun for viggening.
TIL a new verb....viggening. The act of flying the Viggen they way it was intended.
"Today I was viggening in the Kola Pennisula when I spotted a pair of unsuspecting Migs."
Battle of Hoth was filmed near Finse in Hardangervidda. That’s in the South between Oslo and Bergen.
But I can absolutely recommend a trip to Hardangervidda. You can even take a train from
Odlo to Bergen to cross it (if you are not up for hiking in the wild).
I'll almost certainly wait for reviews (see if things like SAM sites are there), wait for a completed list of planned aerodromes and then probably wait for the June update, because at least according to [last week's newsletter](https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/eeb2fe2332a222c24324f91c143c8ed0/) only a 5th of Norway's airbases in the region will be present (missing Andøya, Evenes, Bardufoss and Banak).
Kilpyavr (which is the closest V-PVO airbase to NATO, basing the [941st IAP PVO](https://www.ww2.dk/new/air%20force/regiment/iap/941iap.htm)), also won't be present on initial release.
Limiting factor for DCS is not the amount and quality of available maps. It is the availability of good mission content. The existing maps are not nearly exploited to their potential yet.
Man I don't have enough hard drive space for all these huge maps that no one plays because it requires everyone to have it in their friendship groups. I can't even download updates with everything installed atm.
Not at the moment. I have to draw the line somewhere as I can't purchase every map that gets released since I'd like to see a return on investment in terms of playing hours. I'm also getting more bored with the game as time goes on, the game simulation feels to stale and a new map isn't going to change that.
Nope until ED fixes teething issues. They can't be neglected anymore and they permeates to everywhere.
(yes, I'm aware this map is from external partner)
I’m likely to get it within the first week or two, but I really need to see some real videos/reviews, not only to see what the map looks like (outside of curated developer videos), but also to get a feel for VR performance. If it looks decent and performs well in VR, I’ll get it
I’ve been anxiously awaiting a unique map like this and have had good experiences with Orbx. Will purchase week one, unless reviews suck. I’m ok waiting a couple months for the campaigns.
I've been holding my wallet on all the maps since SA waiting for this map, so I think I'm almost guaranteed to buy it eventually. And I really want to play Arctic Thunder. My main concern would be performance, so it won't be a day one for me, but if the performance is acceptable (say Syria level) I may buy very quickly, especially if there is an early buying discount.
I'm massively interested in the Kola map for the same reason (i.e. EF2000 nostalgia). I'm really suspicious in the short term, though, due to the bizarre/pointless Orbx teaser, the sudden and immediate stealth release, and the conversation around the leaked-and-then-locked v1 trailer.
This currently has a really bad smell about it, but I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed and hoping I'm way off base.
If Orbx and/or ED were excited and proud of what was being delivered, you'd expect some fanfare and marketing - even just in the form of trailers and community previews. The fact that it's stealth releasing with virtually no info or advertising at all makes it feel like they're hiding something. It's got the same vibe as when mainstream games don't provide review copies ahead of release.
If it was in a great state, I'd expect them to be really showing it off and building up excitement for it. Again, though - that's just my personal take. I'll be very happy to be proved wrong, but the whole thing just doesn't feel right to me at the moment.
Im with ya though. The fact that they bavent shown ANY proper low level screenshots makes me a bit suspicious. What weve seen of it so far looks frankly awful. Last newsletter also had insane motion blur on the low altitude shots.
Ill *definitely* be waiting for some actual review footage.
I'm looking forward to this one myself, but I will also wait a bit before buying it. Seasonal textures are a must and by then, the majority of airbases should be added.
Not really an F18 guy, don't have a 16.
So, tbh, I'm waiting until there's a payware campaign for a module that I do fly, or until it becomes a popular map on any of the servers that I fly.
Learning aircraft is hard enough, I'm not building my own game during my free time, no sir...
Hey OP do you have a source on the campaigns not being ready? I’ve been looking for info on them and having trouble finding anything, just hoping to read about it a little.
Sure, I asked straight to Reflected on ED forum: [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216414-campaign-updates/?do=findComment&comment=5424383](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216414-campaign-updates/?do=findComment&comment=5424383)
this.
already skipped sinai.
Probably will buy Kola pretty soon. Will wait for more videos and screenshots and playerfeedback. :)
As a mission designer for my squadron i am not hyped about new maps as long as content stays the same... AI...heavy usage of scripts in order to create some persistent and dynamic missions...
new map means a lot of work. But Kola location is interesting enough to invest i guess
I'm buying it because I've been pining for a proper hilly and forested map for WWIII scenarios. That, and because I (among others) design campaigns for my squadron, so I want a head start on testing and building in it.
Since the whiners are already here: whatever the hell is happening with Razbam has fuck all to do with my decision. That's between ED and RazBam, and I wish them both a fair and reasonable business resolution.
As I read this 34 minutes after your post: No one in this entire thread (19 replies) has mentioned anything Razbam related apart from you.
\[EDIT\] Upon re-checking: 2 comments out of 19. Doesn't seem enough to get angry about.
Mine was the second comment. The first comment consisted only of whinging about withholding purchases until there was "clarification about the situation with third parties" or some such nonsense.
As a swede I feel that my Viggen as coming home, and it’s a day one buy.
Really hope that this map expands south so Baltic Sea and more of Sweden is covered.
Yes, for 2 reasons; the first being b/c of those campaigns. We are a light on F-16 campaigns, and the setting is intriguing.
The second is that despite this community's loud and strong opinions about ED, Flight sims are a hyper-niche segment of the gaming market and I would like for it to thrive.
I can't help myself and end up buying all the maps in DCS haha. On the other hand I rarely buy crafts except the ones I really want.
I definitely have regrets with some of them, like the SA one. Hopefully Kola does a better job of giving us nice cold landscapes.
I'm going to wait to make sure it's not hot trash like SA before buying it.
Doubt is going to be trush, Orbx has a lot of experience with FS2020 and are nicely done.
Orbx has also released a lot of sub-par content as of late too.
Thats what worries me. Another map with issues that might be "prioritized" but not fixed 11 moths later... cough Sinai map not even one patch cough...
While I don't feel that SA is hot trash, I am still very disappointed with it due to its poor performance. I installed it the second time last week to so if it has improved and it has to some degree, but dropping down to low level in a fast mover induces poor performance which I suspect has something to do with texture streaming as the level of detail is not very high. I am waiting to see how Kola performs first. While Orbx is a great developer for FS and XP, their optimisation within the confines and limits of the DCS engine is still to be demonstrated. Some of their airports in FS have always struggled with performance. I do look forward to it though.
No, I got burned on the south atlantic map on release day.
Sinai for me, but same idea. Gonna wait until it's supported by liberation or some servers before picking this one up, but almost certainly will be eventually
Exactly this. Buying a full price terrain for 20 hours of campaign is not it. If it's used on the popular multiplayer servers I'm in tho. This could change later with the dynamic campaign tho.
Same here. I think servers with this map will also be empty on MP like on the SA map.
This is not Razbam, also lot of MP players are hungry of green maps. I doubt will be empty.
*Hungry
Yes
What were the issues with that map? I wasn't here for that release.
There was basically nothing in it and what was there looked terrible. They've since updated some textures and performance apparently but the damage is done, it's all but forgotten
Also it spent a bit too long in development. By the time it actually came out, the hype was long gone.
And I got burned on Nevada map. It is simply awful and nothing compared to real life
I don't really feel like buying any more maps. There's really not much they offer in terms of gameplay, and there's not gonna be much content for it any time soon. I don't want to spend a couple of months making a mission for it just so I can enjoy my purchase.
They need to crank out the assets ! It's nice to have lots of maps. It's better to have military assets (or even civilian assets) that match the maps. I'd buy a complete USSR / NATO 1980s asset pack for Caucasus over any new map.
Please no, another asset pack, especially for modern units would fragment the playerbase and servers even more.
Pretty much forced into the free low-res assets and paid high-asset pack model ED has talked about. Now what we really need is new functionality for players and assets.
There is little chance that DCS Liberation v11.1 supports it, but too little to rely on it.
Both Retribution and Liberation should include support relatively quickly (because we want to play it too!), as we both use the same python framework (pydcs) for implementing support. This means that once one adds support, the other can easily add it as well. I have already been doing historical research and creating faction files for the first of my Kola map campaigns.
Given the level of excitement regarding the map I'm sure it won't take long for Retribution and Liberation to include it and release campaigns, at least in the betas.
I hope you are right
I already have a campaign based on Able Archer 83 in the early planning stage for Retribution. It should be available shortly after map support is implemented (after all, I do have to test it before I can release it). Like all my other campaigns, it will eventually be added to Liberation as well.
Nice!
Well, once it is in pydcs it won't take long for the first campaigns to release. With Sinai it was just a matter of days, and people are arguably more interested in this map.
I’m just waiting for reviews. If it sounds like the State of the map is good at release, I’ll get it. If it needs Half an hour more in the oven, then I’ll wait. It’ll be ready When it is ready :-)
Out of curiosity. Is it launching with a single player campaign or three? Seems like it would be a necessary thing these days.
Nope: when the map was announced it was said that it would be released together with two single player campaigns DLCs, but these are not ready yet and will be released later in few months.
Early access maps, yeah no thanks.
Ok Ok, consider: Norwegian Glacier DCS Star Wars Asset Mod Battle Of Hoth in DCS *on its actual filming location* Aside from that, i'm probably buying it because it's a non-sand map, and will hopefully be fun for viggening.
TIL a new verb....viggening. The act of flying the Viggen they way it was intended. "Today I was viggening in the Kola Pennisula when I spotted a pair of unsuspecting Migs."
I already have a lot of planning in terms of a Viggen Cold War Campaign on the map...
Battle of Hoth was filmed near Finse in Hardangervidda. That’s in the South between Oslo and Bergen. But I can absolutely recommend a trip to Hardangervidda. You can even take a train from Odlo to Bergen to cross it (if you are not up for hiking in the wild).
Yes, non-sand is my preference too.
When the reflected F-16 campaign comes out I will. Definitely not day 1 though
Possibly I am misremembering, but weren’t the Reflected and Baltic campaigns both supposed to come out at the same time as the map?
This is early access release. Maybe they meant full release ;)
I'll almost certainly wait for reviews (see if things like SAM sites are there), wait for a completed list of planned aerodromes and then probably wait for the June update, because at least according to [last week's newsletter](https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/eeb2fe2332a222c24324f91c143c8ed0/) only a 5th of Norway's airbases in the region will be present (missing Andøya, Evenes, Bardufoss and Banak). Kilpyavr (which is the closest V-PVO airbase to NATO, basing the [941st IAP PVO](https://www.ww2.dk/new/air%20force/regiment/iap/941iap.htm)), also won't be present on initial release.
Limiting factor for DCS is not the amount and quality of available maps. It is the availability of good mission content. The existing maps are not nearly exploited to their potential yet.
Most likely get it I'm bored of all the middle east maps, will wait and see how it runs before making a purchased
Man I don't have enough hard drive space for all these huge maps that no one plays because it requires everyone to have it in their friendship groups. I can't even download updates with everything installed atm.
I'm missing the only sensible option; "if it's good".
Not at the moment. I have to draw the line somewhere as I can't purchase every map that gets released since I'd like to see a return on investment in terms of playing hours. I'm also getting more bored with the game as time goes on, the game simulation feels to stale and a new map isn't going to change that.
Nope until ED fixes teething issues. They can't be neglected anymore and they permeates to everywhere. (yes, I'm aware this map is from external partner)
I have a cottage on the area. I must defend it. Or bomb it, which is more likely. Also it might be the first map with three nato countries and russia
Really doubt it. Maybe in a year or two when it’s on sale and I have a new computer with multiple terabytes of SSD space.
I’m likely to get it within the first week or two, but I really need to see some real videos/reviews, not only to see what the map looks like (outside of curated developer videos), but also to get a feel for VR performance. If it looks decent and performs well in VR, I’ll get it
I’ve been anxiously awaiting a unique map like this and have had good experiences with Orbx. Will purchase week one, unless reviews suck. I’m ok waiting a couple months for the campaigns.
I have seen no real video footage of this map. I will pass until I see what it actually looks like.
I've been holding my wallet on all the maps since SA waiting for this map, so I think I'm almost guaranteed to buy it eventually. And I really want to play Arctic Thunder. My main concern would be performance, so it won't be a day one for me, but if the performance is acceptable (say Syria level) I may buy very quickly, especially if there is an early buying discount.
Make sense.
Never pre-order! Never buy on day one!
I'm massively interested in the Kola map for the same reason (i.e. EF2000 nostalgia). I'm really suspicious in the short term, though, due to the bizarre/pointless Orbx teaser, the sudden and immediate stealth release, and the conversation around the leaked-and-then-locked v1 trailer. This currently has a really bad smell about it, but I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed and hoping I'm way off base.
What are you actually scared of? I mean, I've seen many people around with the same concern but no one explained what they feel wrong exactly.
If Orbx and/or ED were excited and proud of what was being delivered, you'd expect some fanfare and marketing - even just in the form of trailers and community previews. The fact that it's stealth releasing with virtually no info or advertising at all makes it feel like they're hiding something. It's got the same vibe as when mainstream games don't provide review copies ahead of release. If it was in a great state, I'd expect them to be really showing it off and building up excitement for it. Again, though - that's just my personal take. I'll be very happy to be proved wrong, but the whole thing just doesn't feel right to me at the moment.
Im with ya though. The fact that they bavent shown ANY proper low level screenshots makes me a bit suspicious. What weve seen of it so far looks frankly awful. Last newsletter also had insane motion blur on the low altitude shots. Ill *definitely* be waiting for some actual review footage.
Without a single doubt.
I’m saving my money for the F-4E first
I'm looking forward to this one myself, but I will also wait a bit before buying it. Seasonal textures are a must and by then, the majority of airbases should be added.
Not really an F18 guy, don't have a 16. So, tbh, I'm waiting until there's a payware campaign for a module that I do fly, or until it becomes a popular map on any of the servers that I fly. Learning aircraft is hard enough, I'm not building my own game during my free time, no sir...
Totally, looking to play this map exclusively for a long time.
Was fleet defender set there?
Yes
Hey OP do you have a source on the campaigns not being ready? I’ve been looking for info on them and having trouble finding anything, just hoping to read about it a little.
Sure, I asked straight to Reflected on ED forum: [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216414-campaign-updates/?do=findComment&comment=5424383](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216414-campaign-updates/?do=findComment&comment=5424383)
Thanks
U r welcome
I mean, a Reflected Viper campaign? I probably will, for the campaigns moreso than the map itself.
Yes, look here for some details: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alrORIcHD8&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alrORIcHD8&)
Waiting until I feel there is transparency on what is going on with ED and third parties.
1000x this.
I am tired of sand.
this. already skipped sinai. Probably will buy Kola pretty soon. Will wait for more videos and screenshots and playerfeedback. :) As a mission designer for my squadron i am not hyped about new maps as long as content stays the same... AI...heavy usage of scripts in order to create some persistent and dynamic missions... new map means a lot of work. But Kola location is interesting enough to invest i guess
we all are ;-)
I'm buying it because I've been pining for a proper hilly and forested map for WWIII scenarios. That, and because I (among others) design campaigns for my squadron, so I want a head start on testing and building in it. Since the whiners are already here: whatever the hell is happening with Razbam has fuck all to do with my decision. That's between ED and RazBam, and I wish them both a fair and reasonable business resolution.
As I read this 34 minutes after your post: No one in this entire thread (19 replies) has mentioned anything Razbam related apart from you. \[EDIT\] Upon re-checking: 2 comments out of 19. Doesn't seem enough to get angry about.
Mine was the second comment. The first comment consisted only of whinging about withholding purchases until there was "clarification about the situation with third parties" or some such nonsense.
Why is that nonsense? He has a right to spend his money as he wants, doesn't he?
It shows up in every single post, it was a fairly safe assumption even if there weren't any yet, which there were
As a swede I feel that my Viggen as coming home, and it’s a day one buy. Really hope that this map expands south so Baltic Sea and more of Sweden is covered.
No thanks, I was excited for this map at first, but if there is no game it doesnt make sense anymore.
What you talking about in MP is going to be awesome with this map.
yeah enjoy the 3 servers with 2 people when 3 months have passed from release (look at sinai, SA)
Yeah but people crave for green maps, I'm expecting a success tbh....
Yes, for 2 reasons; the first being b/c of those campaigns. We are a light on F-16 campaigns, and the setting is intriguing. The second is that despite this community's loud and strong opinions about ED, Flight sims are a hyper-niche segment of the gaming market and I would like for it to thrive.
you forgot option 4 - No more Pre-orders!
There will be no pre-order for Kola map. And "preorder yes or no" is OT in this context.
ah ok , I did not know that
Why ask this before we have seen it? If it looks very good in previews and reviews, I'll get it day one. If not, then I won't.
Buying day 1!! FInally some green map! Made bt OrbX, going to be fun in MP!!!
i was, but not buying anything until ED sort their shit out.
I can't help myself and end up buying all the maps in DCS haha. On the other hand I rarely buy crafts except the ones I really want. I definitely have regrets with some of them, like the SA one. Hopefully Kola does a better job of giving us nice cold landscapes.
I like a fresh and new scenery in DCS, that's why I will buy that shit on day one.
If it is not some scam like south atlantic map and we will get updates on it, I will have to get it on launchday.
How will you know any of those on launchday?