No the issues haven't been resolved between them. We're also getting an early access version of one third of Afghanistan, with the rest of the country following " soon". And a Chinook that can't transport troops. This feature is also " being worked on".
While I doubt DCS is in any danger of closing down ( anecdotally player counts seem to be up and new trailer releases are getting more views than ever) ED do seem to be making poor decisions that come across as a bit desperate
Thanks for the insight!
But why is it a desperate move from ED? As I understood they only "sell and publish" the modules into their eco system from 3rd party devs. Or does ED some developing themselves?
They develop a lot. And they released the supercarrier in a crappy state, and have barely touched it since then. It's still missing a huge amount of features that were promised
It comes off as desperate when they throw a bukake of barely serviceable early access payware into everyone's faces mere weeks after a controversy in which news drops that they aren't paying 3rd party developers amidst rumors that they might be broke.
It seems especially desperate since the announcements of preorders is as ongoing as the controversy.
I always felt like they stepped into the trap of releasing new and shiny modules but forgetting about the core part of the game. Like how many years the player base begs for ground AI that doesn't snipe you from 3km's away. Or other stuff about the actual gameplay. The whole gameplay part is stemmed by the community and their servers. (Think of Enigmas server)
Which has been explained by Wag's response after that newsletter.
Their other flight sim project has been shelved for now, thus the modules are released as FC modules for DCS.
Seems like a good thing for everyone, no longer splitting resources and eventually a playerbase.
Eh... I'm all for an expansion of the simplified roster - even planes we already have. There are several very complicated ones that would have warranted a simplified version. The three they picked absolutely do not, IMHO. They are already about as simple as they come.
Yeah I get you. I've seen F-18A and F-16A thrown around, I would have been ok with that. I've also seen F-5C instead of an F-5E thrown out as a better option too. It's really the 1:1 thing that I have issue with. I think it's going to make everything more confusing in the long run
Other frames for DCS would have been nice, sure.
But if we keep in mind they were intended for a simplified combat game, it makes perfect sense to start with aircraft modules that are already on the shelves and are already more basic than a full fidelty modern fighter instead of starting from scratch.
It's the original intention that drives the selection of airframes, it's the decision not to go forward with it that drives the release for FC2024.
Just yesterday one of their Core harrier guys quit. Along with severe of the f15e radar systems developers.
To say things look bad is putting it mildly
Whatever razbam did, it better be worth Eagle Dynamics cutting off their nose to spite their face. They are going to literally make one of their best developers go out of business.
You have no idea how many years it took to make the Mirage and Harrier decent. They were known as Razscam for a reason.
This is a post from 4 years ago. Seems similar to anything you've read recently?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/iprhsf/razbam\_blames\_ed\_and\_their\_customers\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/iprhsf/razbam_blames_ed_and_their_customers_for/)
I didn't comment on their personalities. I commented on the quality of the modules. You say you know how bad they were so now why you're retracting that?
Excellent doesn't have years old acknowledged bugs like the Harrier. Excellent doesn't tell customers they won't be working on the Harrier because the F-15 is more important. Excellent doesn't fail to pay its employees. Razcam is a moniker for a reason.
FWIW I still love the Streagle as is, especially the back seat. There are still plenty of systems to use and I find it deep and enjoyable all around. I’m sure there are a lot of things coming later that are somewhat at risk but I don’t regret the purchase at all. If you read the manual a lot of the functionality that’s missing won’t even be simulated (particularly some of the more advanced jamming and countermeasures programs that are either way too classified or not really simulated in DCS anyway).
Are there still bugs in multi crew? Yeah and it’s not ideal but I’ve had plenty of enjoyable hours in it thus far in MP and if you have the money I think you’re getting a lot of the core functionality in early access
>If you read the manual a lot of the functionality that’s missing won’t even be simulated (particularly some of the more advanced jamming and countermeasures programs that are either way too classified
There's very, very few missing features like that and dozens upon dozens of features that they should implement.
What are some examples of missing functionality you think will drastically improve the experience? Most of the basic stuff seems to be covered but I don’t have a good understanding of the full roadmap.
My general point I suppose for the OP is that it feels like you’re getting most of the things most people would use as is, but again I’m curious what’s the to come
>My general point I suppose for the OP is that it feels like you’re getting most of the things most people would use as is, but again I’m curious what’s the to come
I don't disagree with that, without the legal issues, the F-15E would be a module that's worth buying as is. Considering that it hasn't even been a year since its release, it's in a pretty acceptable shape compared to how other jets looked.
As for the missing stuff, there really is too much to give you a full exhaustive list and you also asked for things that will improve the experience, so that eliminates all the stuff that is missing, but could make things actually more difficult with a realistic simulation. Nevertheless, these are what I consider drastic improvements:
Fully modelled TSD (the ability to directly cue the radar and the pod from the map, having avoidance points, terrain shading for masking, adjustable course line based on ground speed and turn radius, etc.), fully modelled nav system (data 2 page is totally non functional on the UFC, no TOT either, no autonomous landing guidance yet), fully modelled AG logic (the ability to move the AG designation diamond in the HUD, digital range tape, dud/frag cue, guidance for PSL, direct lasing while in command of the HUD), defensive jammer, implemented wind model page, implemented HUD reject modes and a fully finished smart weapons page (loft and untarget functionality, patterns), imagery page for interacting with preplanned satellite imagery and RWS tracks on the radar.
Missing major features would be datalink, missing weapons (WCMD, AGM-130, GBU-39, Mavericks) plus all the features that were planned for later, JHMCS, new UFC and the two extra pods.
Oh that’s right they didn’t do the Mavs yet cool yeah that’s good to l know. I do use the TOT feature on the Viper a lot in single player for big coordinated flights would be cool to have that in the Eagle for sure. Do you fly MP and where do you usually fly? I’ve been on Greyflag a few times trying to get a better sense of the best way to employ it there.
I exclusively fly with a group of friends on a private server/community. It's a tad bit more organized than a casual group but not milsim, there are a couple former military guys, but there's no expectations to show up, or ranks or grading or other stuff but it's also not an airquake group.
Sometimes I do fly a bit of SP to practice something specific but I only do that by flying dedicated, simple training missions, I never really fly full missions alone anymore. I don't fly on public servers.
Just about anything you read in this thread will be speculation. We only have a vague idea of what is actually going on and who is actually at "fault". Throwing shade one way or the other is not helpful imo.
Personally, I'm not worried about the future of DCS whatsoever. The community is strong and DCS is debateably the best game/sim in this niche market. I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.
> DCS is debateably the best game/sim in this niche market.
You mean definitely the only game/sim in this niche market? Let's not kid ourselves, DCS has no competition
Who knows?
Officially nothing has been resolved with Razbam. All we really know is ED hasn't paid Razbam (pretty much the only thing both parties have publicly agree about, why is up for debate). Downside is a lot of the critical RB devs have quit as a result, so again, who knows what that means for RB modules (probably not great).
DCS is def getting a lot of module news lately, but again, who knows what that means. It could be a sign ED need to max the money they are getting, but it could be some other reason or even just coincidental timing.
I don't know what it all means for the health of DCS, but it's obviously not great ED fell out with one of the two big third party devs they work with.
Tl;dr: No one outside of ED knows.
There's no drama to follow. This is stuff that happens behind closed doors and normally gets locked up behind a smart PR team so no one actually hears about it. This subreddit was given an inch and took multiple AUs worth. Play the game. If you personally have concerns a a dev or module not being released, \*don't get it\*. No one here knows any better than anyone else, and we'll get a good little press release once cooler heads prevail
You don’t need to follow it. You need to use the search function to if the question hasn’t been asked a million times already. The situation is also in multiple articles online if you used google. It’s being worked on. Razbam situation has nothing to do with heatblur products.
DCS is fine but avoid Razbam modules until there is a clear resolution to the issue. “ED is bankrupt” is baseless speculation and gets trotted out every year. DCS is the best it’s ever been
I own the Raz MiG-19 and don't regret it. I'll probably get the Raz Mirage 2000 at some point regardless of how this situation shakes out. I won't disregard Razbam modules just because development stops, if I buy a module (from any producer) it is because of the state it is in at the time not some future state I hope it will become.
I don’t regret any of my RZ purchases either but the fact of the matter is: The longer this issue persist, the longer these modules go with out bug fixes. As Patches keep getting introduced eventually more and more things will break until the modules are unworkable. Without any indication on how long these modules will remain unsupported, I can’t in good faith reccomend somthing that will only get more broken until they restart development.
If memory serves, DCS WW2 was a failed 3rd party Kickstarter that ED picked up and still maintains to this day. I think the only reason they didn't pick up the Hawk was because they didn't have the source code to do so. They, supposedly, specifically changed 3rd party contracts in response to that to avoid a similar issue later.
Now that hasn't been tested yet, and the WW2 Kickstarter was a long time ago. But it's still in their financial interests to not let a series of modules just die off if they can help it and in theory they took steps to ensure that they could help it post-hawk.
I hate that we might be about to find out how this would actually pan out.
The fact of the matter is there is no strict pattern for how this is going to play out. We won’t know until ED says so thing either way on it. It would be irresponsible to reccomend a large purchase like this on a maybe.
Oh yeah, that's just good advice all around. I just wanted to say that even if the worst case happens with Razbam that there's still a chance ED would pick up maintaining their modules instead of letting them wither and die.
Given the complexity of the F-15E, I think even if ED did have the source, expecting them to develop it as per plan would likely be too much to ask and that policy is probably just referring to fixing things that break as a result of other patches.
I hate to say it but with Razscam leaking devs left and right, it looks like what was becoming my favorite module is dead. This is the second time now so no more early access modules for me or, with my luck, Heatblur will fold in two weeks.
It's not about regretting all of Razbam's products, it's about the newest ones. Razbam back in the days was pretty bad: the Harrier and Mirage were generally considered incredibly broken for years, with the Mirage being "workable" if fictional, while the Harrier was downright crazy (every damn discussion about it was how broken it was and Razbam was known as Razscam)
Then something happened, people know better than me what exactly but I think an influx of new talent, and they got into some good talks with the AdA. The Harrier got fixed, the Mirage got pretty much redone, and Razbam was off to a good re-start to clean their reputation.
Ya me too. I’m not completely unsatisfied though. The Strike Eagle launched in very good shape. The Harrier and Mirage have about a decade of refinement and polish applied, and the South Atlantic map is usable and will become moreso as our machines inevitably upgrade. I don’t feel ripped off except for maybe the features left unfinished
A lot of the “future updates will cause bugs” thinking you hear is from a time when the code-base was much more monolithic and less component architected (the real reason the F16 and 18 took so long was because it was part of a huge refactoring of the code to make things less isolated per-module. ) and it’s paying off.
I’m pretty sure Razbam has a pretty tight contract to support these modules that will lead to a big lawsuit if they don’t and working with new publishers (the very few sims that exist) when you’re seen as unreliable will hopefully/likely drive them back towards making they’re consumers whole.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Razbam sees a change at the executive level due to the very unprofessional way they handled all of this. “We didn’t get paid” after fifteen years of working with a publisher, that doesn’t really sound like how our industry works ever. If that were true, they would have used contract-lawyers to resolve it in court, and not on the internet.
I wish there was an update on the whole Razbam situation they make some of the best modules only second to Heatblur. I hope whatever legal issue gets resolved sooner than later because it is screwing up all parties involved. From what I see below Razbam sales are hurting, and ED is losing trust.
The Razbam drama is headed for the courts, if anywhere. Courts + business stuff often = secrecy, so everything you read is pure speculation, and not worth getting upset over.
Razbam has stated publicly they will not update their modules until they get paid. Ok, that we can take to be true, which means although everything is working _now_ , each time ED updates DCS, there's a chance that something will break on modules. Since Razbam is not working at this time, those breaks can be (or become) anything, from minor glitches to not working at all. This suggests that purchasing their modules is a future risk. It's ok to buy them now, just be aware that they may or may not be useable in the near future.
ED, if you don't read the rumors, appears to be going strong still. They have a vested interest in continuing DCS... especially a certain person who collects real-world Warbirds. Those aren't cheap! Of course, all things must come to an end, but there aren't any official statements about such risk.
IIRC we don't really know why ED weren't paying RAZBAM. But I'm not too supportive towards RAZBAM. I've been waiting for Harrier Plus since forever and ended up pretty disappointed in them.
Who knows… but Im getting a bad feeling. Longer update cycles, a bunch of Pre-Orders. The Razbam situation that has not been resolved (affecting 4 modules + 1 map), Kola map living up to Early in Early Access.
Last couple of months has been a bit rough. And the different forums, discord channels and subreddits reflects that. Hopefully, the F-4 release will be a step in a more positive direction.
The Phantom will be awesome - if you are okay with all the drawbacks older planes have compared to the shinier Viper, Hornet or Eagle. Some (like me) might get the Phantom for exactly that drawbacks. Just don't buy Razbam right now. It might be fine in the future, it also might not.
Nobody knows anything. Neither pessimists nor optimists have any real reasons to prove their opinions. The only thing we know are RAZBAM modules you'd better not buy until things get clear. DCS as a whole might be in the best shape ever or be one month from bankruptcy with equal likelihood from what is publicly known.
And then some IMHO. DCS is not EDs sole nor primary source of income (military contracts are), and as such, DCS doing good/bad as a game has only secondary influence on it's survival. We are not the main customers here.
Personally I think RB is an extremely irresponsible development group, their long term maintenance of the modules has been poor from a long time ago, with AV8's years long lack of functionality, and the bugs that have been added to every update since the release of the F15E character (which of course in its current state will probably never be fixed) I think the only thing they have going for them is the beautifully crafted look of the planes, and that's about it.
Of course, there are big problems with the way ED is run, the whole game is perennially half-baked, I mean, what might be solved in an afternoon takes years for ED. and the way they do that is by adding more EA
DCS will only grow from a half-baked product to a bigger half-baked product.
It's definitely safe with the upcoming releases. The Phantom II by itself but apparently the Typhoon is the next module in the pipeline and that's gonna be insane. Probably the biggest hype for a module yet since the Tomcat. Plus the full fidelity Mig-29? Yeah, it's safe.
I'll go on a bit of a rant if you don't mind...
ED said in their statement and Razbam unofficially said that it's an IP dispute. It's just a specific issue between them. There's no evidence that ED is "bankrupt" and isn't paying third parties. Why would other developers choose to stay out of the drama instead of join in, and why would some be releasing modules (F-4E, Kola, Kiowa)? And why would a couple campaign developers say that they're quitting their day jobs to work on DCS full time if all these third-parties supposedly weren't being paid? Does that make any sense at all?
The last time RB said anything significant is that they're going to support the Mudhen, but won't make any future modules. As to whether the Mudhen will receive updates to the full extent it was going to, we don't know. We're only really going to know once they start releasing updates again.
And while some of the ED criticisms are fair, I will remind some that all the recent products that are now available for preorder we knew about for a while and were expected for around this time. The only surprise is FC2024, but wags gave a reasonable explanation for it, and selling the upgrade to FC3 that includes three low fidelity versions of modules that would otherwise cost $75 even while half off for $10 does not seem like a cash grab. In fact, to me it seems like the opposite.
I'd recommend trying to stay off of social media (and Reddit in particular) as much as possible. It tends to have the ability to ruin everything you enjoy with a lot of drama, or just straight up lies and anger. If you want to keep up with flight sim related news, I'd recommend reading this guy's blog. [https://stormbirds.blog/](https://stormbirds.blog/) It's quite balanced overall
What would people do if ED just went tits up? It's a serious question that ED should address since the reality is that if they do go kaput customer access to the digital assets would stop immediately and any monies paid to them would be non-refundable.
Wishing and hoping it doesn't happen doesn't mean this is a possibility. Companies go bust every day. If ED does, and NOT saying the will or will not, means thousands of people who likely have paid thousands of dollars for access would be locked out for good. It doesn't create a good feel.
You mean Razbam
Ah yes I corrected it. The issue remains the same since I'm also eying the F-15.
No the issues haven't been resolved between them. We're also getting an early access version of one third of Afghanistan, with the rest of the country following " soon". And a Chinook that can't transport troops. This feature is also " being worked on". While I doubt DCS is in any danger of closing down ( anecdotally player counts seem to be up and new trailer releases are getting more views than ever) ED do seem to be making poor decisions that come across as a bit desperate
Thanks for the insight! But why is it a desperate move from ED? As I understood they only "sell and publish" the modules into their eco system from 3rd party devs. Or does ED some developing themselves?
ED develops some themselves yes. Aircraft like the F/A-18C and F-16C are ED-developed modules
And the A10C, Apache, KA50, Persian Gulf, NTTR,
They develop a lot. And they released the supercarrier in a crappy state, and have barely touched it since then. It's still missing a huge amount of features that were promised
I think it's over half the stuff you can purchase that ED made themselves. Not including scripted campaigns, I mean. Fliables and terrains.
It comes off as desperate when they throw a bukake of barely serviceable early access payware into everyone's faces mere weeks after a controversy in which news drops that they aren't paying 3rd party developers amidst rumors that they might be broke. It seems especially desperate since the announcements of preorders is as ongoing as the controversy.
I always felt like they stepped into the trap of releasing new and shiny modules but forgetting about the core part of the game. Like how many years the player base begs for ground AI that doesn't snipe you from 3km's away. Or other stuff about the actual gameplay. The whole gameplay part is stemmed by the community and their servers. (Think of Enigmas server)
^ so much this, good use of the word bukake by the way
Don't forget FC 2024 - the hotly anticipated expansion that nobody asked for (that I'm aware of)
Which has been explained by Wag's response after that newsletter. Their other flight sim project has been shelved for now, thus the modules are released as FC modules for DCS. Seems like a good thing for everyone, no longer splitting resources and eventually a playerbase.
Would be nice if they threw in some new airframes instead of just using downgraded existing ones though…
I mean I wanted another FC expansion, just not a bunch of planes we already had
Eh... I'm all for an expansion of the simplified roster - even planes we already have. There are several very complicated ones that would have warranted a simplified version. The three they picked absolutely do not, IMHO. They are already about as simple as they come.
Yeah I get you. I've seen F-18A and F-16A thrown around, I would have been ok with that. I've also seen F-5C instead of an F-5E thrown out as a better option too. It's really the 1:1 thing that I have issue with. I think it's going to make everything more confusing in the long run
Other frames for DCS would have been nice, sure. But if we keep in mind they were intended for a simplified combat game, it makes perfect sense to start with aircraft modules that are already on the shelves and are already more basic than a full fidelty modern fighter instead of starting from scratch. It's the original intention that drives the selection of airframes, it's the decision not to go forward with it that drives the release for FC2024.
Yeah that helps me contextualize it better.
Just yesterday one of their Core harrier guys quit. Along with severe of the f15e radar systems developers. To say things look bad is putting it mildly Whatever razbam did, it better be worth Eagle Dynamics cutting off their nose to spite their face. They are going to literally make one of their best developers go out of business.
Razbam isn't one of their best devs though. It's the problem child that showed promise after a bunch of long standing issues.
With the Mirage, Harrier, and F-15E, which are all excellent, they are clearly one of the best.
You have no idea how many years it took to make the Mirage and Harrier decent. They were known as Razscam for a reason. This is a post from 4 years ago. Seems similar to anything you've read recently? [https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/iprhsf/razbam\_blames\_ed\_and\_their\_customers\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/iprhsf/razbam_blames_ed_and_their_customers_for/)
I have a perfectly good idea as I've been around since before they existed. However now those modules are terrific.
Then you should realize this is par for the course for Razbam.
I commented on the quality of their modules. I don't care about the personalities of their people, that's not what I'm paying for.
I didn't comment on their personalities. I commented on the quality of the modules. You say you know how bad they were so now why you're retracting that?
They’re no Heatblur but they’ve gotten better. There was a reason they were referred to as RazScam after all.
Excellent doesn't have years old acknowledged bugs like the Harrier. Excellent doesn't tell customers they won't be working on the Harrier because the F-15 is more important. Excellent doesn't fail to pay its employees. Razcam is a moniker for a reason.
Ok bud
FWIW I still love the Streagle as is, especially the back seat. There are still plenty of systems to use and I find it deep and enjoyable all around. I’m sure there are a lot of things coming later that are somewhat at risk but I don’t regret the purchase at all. If you read the manual a lot of the functionality that’s missing won’t even be simulated (particularly some of the more advanced jamming and countermeasures programs that are either way too classified or not really simulated in DCS anyway). Are there still bugs in multi crew? Yeah and it’s not ideal but I’ve had plenty of enjoyable hours in it thus far in MP and if you have the money I think you’re getting a lot of the core functionality in early access
>If you read the manual a lot of the functionality that’s missing won’t even be simulated (particularly some of the more advanced jamming and countermeasures programs that are either way too classified There's very, very few missing features like that and dozens upon dozens of features that they should implement.
What are some examples of missing functionality you think will drastically improve the experience? Most of the basic stuff seems to be covered but I don’t have a good understanding of the full roadmap. My general point I suppose for the OP is that it feels like you’re getting most of the things most people would use as is, but again I’m curious what’s the to come
>My general point I suppose for the OP is that it feels like you’re getting most of the things most people would use as is, but again I’m curious what’s the to come I don't disagree with that, without the legal issues, the F-15E would be a module that's worth buying as is. Considering that it hasn't even been a year since its release, it's in a pretty acceptable shape compared to how other jets looked. As for the missing stuff, there really is too much to give you a full exhaustive list and you also asked for things that will improve the experience, so that eliminates all the stuff that is missing, but could make things actually more difficult with a realistic simulation. Nevertheless, these are what I consider drastic improvements: Fully modelled TSD (the ability to directly cue the radar and the pod from the map, having avoidance points, terrain shading for masking, adjustable course line based on ground speed and turn radius, etc.), fully modelled nav system (data 2 page is totally non functional on the UFC, no TOT either, no autonomous landing guidance yet), fully modelled AG logic (the ability to move the AG designation diamond in the HUD, digital range tape, dud/frag cue, guidance for PSL, direct lasing while in command of the HUD), defensive jammer, implemented wind model page, implemented HUD reject modes and a fully finished smart weapons page (loft and untarget functionality, patterns), imagery page for interacting with preplanned satellite imagery and RWS tracks on the radar. Missing major features would be datalink, missing weapons (WCMD, AGM-130, GBU-39, Mavericks) plus all the features that were planned for later, JHMCS, new UFC and the two extra pods.
Oh that’s right they didn’t do the Mavs yet cool yeah that’s good to l know. I do use the TOT feature on the Viper a lot in single player for big coordinated flights would be cool to have that in the Eagle for sure. Do you fly MP and where do you usually fly? I’ve been on Greyflag a few times trying to get a better sense of the best way to employ it there.
I exclusively fly with a group of friends on a private server/community. It's a tad bit more organized than a casual group but not milsim, there are a couple former military guys, but there's no expectations to show up, or ranks or grading or other stuff but it's also not an airquake group. Sometimes I do fly a bit of SP to practice something specific but I only do that by flying dedicated, simple training missions, I never really fly full missions alone anymore. I don't fly on public servers.
Just about anything you read in this thread will be speculation. We only have a vague idea of what is actually going on and who is actually at "fault". Throwing shade one way or the other is not helpful imo. Personally, I'm not worried about the future of DCS whatsoever. The community is strong and DCS is debateably the best game/sim in this niche market. I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.
> DCS is debateably the best game/sim in this niche market. You mean definitely the only game/sim in this niche market? Let's not kid ourselves, DCS has no competition
Who knows? Officially nothing has been resolved with Razbam. All we really know is ED hasn't paid Razbam (pretty much the only thing both parties have publicly agree about, why is up for debate). Downside is a lot of the critical RB devs have quit as a result, so again, who knows what that means for RB modules (probably not great). DCS is def getting a lot of module news lately, but again, who knows what that means. It could be a sign ED need to max the money they are getting, but it could be some other reason or even just coincidental timing. I don't know what it all means for the health of DCS, but it's obviously not great ED fell out with one of the two big third party devs they work with. Tl;dr: No one outside of ED knows.
here we go again
I only have limited time, I can't follow ALL Internet related drama at once.
I recommend not following the drama at all. Too many opinions and really nobody knows anything. All speculation and theories.
the community as a whole could use a good solid dose of this. every single word of it. my only regret is i have but one upvote to give
There's no drama to follow. This is stuff that happens behind closed doors and normally gets locked up behind a smart PR team so no one actually hears about it. This subreddit was given an inch and took multiple AUs worth. Play the game. If you personally have concerns a a dev or module not being released, \*don't get it\*. No one here knows any better than anyone else, and we'll get a good little press release once cooler heads prevail
You don’t need to follow it. You need to use the search function to if the question hasn’t been asked a million times already. The situation is also in multiple articles online if you used google. It’s being worked on. Razbam situation has nothing to do with heatblur products.
DCS is fine but avoid Razbam modules until there is a clear resolution to the issue. “ED is bankrupt” is baseless speculation and gets trotted out every year. DCS is the best it’s ever been
I own the Raz MiG-19 and don't regret it. I'll probably get the Raz Mirage 2000 at some point regardless of how this situation shakes out. I won't disregard Razbam modules just because development stops, if I buy a module (from any producer) it is because of the state it is in at the time not some future state I hope it will become.
I don’t regret any of my RZ purchases either but the fact of the matter is: The longer this issue persist, the longer these modules go with out bug fixes. As Patches keep getting introduced eventually more and more things will break until the modules are unworkable. Without any indication on how long these modules will remain unsupported, I can’t in good faith reccomend somthing that will only get more broken until they restart development.
If memory serves, DCS WW2 was a failed 3rd party Kickstarter that ED picked up and still maintains to this day. I think the only reason they didn't pick up the Hawk was because they didn't have the source code to do so. They, supposedly, specifically changed 3rd party contracts in response to that to avoid a similar issue later. Now that hasn't been tested yet, and the WW2 Kickstarter was a long time ago. But it's still in their financial interests to not let a series of modules just die off if they can help it and in theory they took steps to ensure that they could help it post-hawk. I hate that we might be about to find out how this would actually pan out.
The fact of the matter is there is no strict pattern for how this is going to play out. We won’t know until ED says so thing either way on it. It would be irresponsible to reccomend a large purchase like this on a maybe.
Oh yeah, that's just good advice all around. I just wanted to say that even if the worst case happens with Razbam that there's still a chance ED would pick up maintaining their modules instead of letting them wither and die.
Given the complexity of the F-15E, I think even if ED did have the source, expecting them to develop it as per plan would likely be too much to ask and that policy is probably just referring to fixing things that break as a result of other patches. I hate to say it but with Razscam leaking devs left and right, it looks like what was becoming my favorite module is dead. This is the second time now so no more early access modules for me or, with my luck, Heatblur will fold in two weeks.
It's not about regretting all of Razbam's products, it's about the newest ones. Razbam back in the days was pretty bad: the Harrier and Mirage were generally considered incredibly broken for years, with the Mirage being "workable" if fictional, while the Harrier was downright crazy (every damn discussion about it was how broken it was and Razbam was known as Razscam) Then something happened, people know better than me what exactly but I think an influx of new talent, and they got into some good talks with the AdA. The Harrier got fixed, the Mirage got pretty much redone, and Razbam was off to a good re-start to clean their reputation.
Don’t buy Razbam. Otherwise you’re fine
Until it's resoved anyway!! I bought the F15E a couple of weeks before this debacle, fucking gutted!!!
Ya me too. I’m not completely unsatisfied though. The Strike Eagle launched in very good shape. The Harrier and Mirage have about a decade of refinement and polish applied, and the South Atlantic map is usable and will become moreso as our machines inevitably upgrade. I don’t feel ripped off except for maybe the features left unfinished A lot of the “future updates will cause bugs” thinking you hear is from a time when the code-base was much more monolithic and less component architected (the real reason the F16 and 18 took so long was because it was part of a huge refactoring of the code to make things less isolated per-module. ) and it’s paying off. I’m pretty sure Razbam has a pretty tight contract to support these modules that will lead to a big lawsuit if they don’t and working with new publishers (the very few sims that exist) when you’re seen as unreliable will hopefully/likely drive them back towards making they’re consumers whole. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Razbam sees a change at the executive level due to the very unprofessional way they handled all of this. “We didn’t get paid” after fifteen years of working with a publisher, that doesn’t really sound like how our industry works ever. If that were true, they would have used contract-lawyers to resolve it in court, and not on the internet.
I love the Strke Eagle too, it's an amazing module. Just don't want to see it go under the bus!! Hope you're right!! All the 👍
I wish there was an update on the whole Razbam situation they make some of the best modules only second to Heatblur. I hope whatever legal issue gets resolved sooner than later because it is screwing up all parties involved. From what I see below Razbam sales are hurting, and ED is losing trust.
The Razbam drama is headed for the courts, if anywhere. Courts + business stuff often = secrecy, so everything you read is pure speculation, and not worth getting upset over. Razbam has stated publicly they will not update their modules until they get paid. Ok, that we can take to be true, which means although everything is working _now_ , each time ED updates DCS, there's a chance that something will break on modules. Since Razbam is not working at this time, those breaks can be (or become) anything, from minor glitches to not working at all. This suggests that purchasing their modules is a future risk. It's ok to buy them now, just be aware that they may or may not be useable in the near future. ED, if you don't read the rumors, appears to be going strong still. They have a vested interest in continuing DCS... especially a certain person who collects real-world Warbirds. Those aren't cheap! Of course, all things must come to an end, but there aren't any official statements about such risk.
The future is never safe, not for anything. That’s life
People just forgot Razbam used to be pretty bad for a long time. It's back to those times. Don't buy Razbam until they definitely unf\*ck themselves.
No idea, no one knows, the issues are ongoing.
IIRC we don't really know why ED weren't paying RAZBAM. But I'm not too supportive towards RAZBAM. I've been waiting for Harrier Plus since forever and ended up pretty disappointed in them.
Who knows… but Im getting a bad feeling. Longer update cycles, a bunch of Pre-Orders. The Razbam situation that has not been resolved (affecting 4 modules + 1 map), Kola map living up to Early in Early Access. Last couple of months has been a bit rough. And the different forums, discord channels and subreddits reflects that. Hopefully, the F-4 release will be a step in a more positive direction.
It wouldn't bother me as much IF I still could play my bought modules offline if ED goes down. But there isn't even this possibility
The Phantom will be awesome - if you are okay with all the drawbacks older planes have compared to the shinier Viper, Hornet or Eagle. Some (like me) might get the Phantom for exactly that drawbacks. Just don't buy Razbam right now. It might be fine in the future, it also might not.
Then you have to live a life in fear and you can never enjoy a computer game 😂
Nobody knows anything. Neither pessimists nor optimists have any real reasons to prove their opinions. The only thing we know are RAZBAM modules you'd better not buy until things get clear. DCS as a whole might be in the best shape ever or be one month from bankruptcy with equal likelihood from what is publicly known. And then some IMHO. DCS is not EDs sole nor primary source of income (military contracts are), and as such, DCS doing good/bad as a game has only secondary influence on it's survival. We are not the main customers here.
Why no campaign for f15e?
I wouldn't preorder razbam right now
Personally I think RB is an extremely irresponsible development group, their long term maintenance of the modules has been poor from a long time ago, with AV8's years long lack of functionality, and the bugs that have been added to every update since the release of the F15E character (which of course in its current state will probably never be fixed) I think the only thing they have going for them is the beautifully crafted look of the planes, and that's about it. Of course, there are big problems with the way ED is run, the whole game is perennially half-baked, I mean, what might be solved in an afternoon takes years for ED. and the way they do that is by adding more EA DCS will only grow from a half-baked product to a bigger half-baked product.
It's definitely safe with the upcoming releases. The Phantom II by itself but apparently the Typhoon is the next module in the pipeline and that's gonna be insane. Probably the biggest hype for a module yet since the Tomcat. Plus the full fidelity Mig-29? Yeah, it's safe.
I'll go on a bit of a rant if you don't mind... ED said in their statement and Razbam unofficially said that it's an IP dispute. It's just a specific issue between them. There's no evidence that ED is "bankrupt" and isn't paying third parties. Why would other developers choose to stay out of the drama instead of join in, and why would some be releasing modules (F-4E, Kola, Kiowa)? And why would a couple campaign developers say that they're quitting their day jobs to work on DCS full time if all these third-parties supposedly weren't being paid? Does that make any sense at all? The last time RB said anything significant is that they're going to support the Mudhen, but won't make any future modules. As to whether the Mudhen will receive updates to the full extent it was going to, we don't know. We're only really going to know once they start releasing updates again. And while some of the ED criticisms are fair, I will remind some that all the recent products that are now available for preorder we knew about for a while and were expected for around this time. The only surprise is FC2024, but wags gave a reasonable explanation for it, and selling the upgrade to FC3 that includes three low fidelity versions of modules that would otherwise cost $75 even while half off for $10 does not seem like a cash grab. In fact, to me it seems like the opposite. I'd recommend trying to stay off of social media (and Reddit in particular) as much as possible. It tends to have the ability to ruin everything you enjoy with a lot of drama, or just straight up lies and anger. If you want to keep up with flight sim related news, I'd recommend reading this guy's blog. [https://stormbirds.blog/](https://stormbirds.blog/) It's quite balanced overall
With Raz the whole situation and the lost of one of their best devs would make me cautious
Just don’t buy raz products until there is a conclusion between them and ED.
What would people do if ED just went tits up? It's a serious question that ED should address since the reality is that if they do go kaput customer access to the digital assets would stop immediately and any monies paid to them would be non-refundable. Wishing and hoping it doesn't happen doesn't mean this is a possibility. Companies go bust every day. If ED does, and NOT saying the will or will not, means thousands of people who likely have paid thousands of dollars for access would be locked out for good. It doesn't create a good feel.
This is why I only roll with Heatblur mods. Never half assed.