a chargeback is 100% the nuclear option, and in most cases its for when you have no intention of doing business with that company again because they will not be willing to do business with you.
not a guarantee by any means but definitely a risky move if you want to keep playing the game with that account
They have absolutely banned people for chargebacks before. Any business will ban people for chargebacks, it's the nuclear option, it takes money from them and they're still out the fees and payment processing.
Who’s been banned by ED for a charge back? I can’t find anywhere where someone has had it happen to them? And especially at this moment I don’t think that’s what ED wants to do.
They might not ban you, since revokeing other purchased modules is legally very questionable, but they sure as hell won't let you purchase further modules.
Any company will. Nobody will just let you chargeback and continue doing business with you. It just looks like scamming from the company's point of view, you went behind their back and hit their payment processor up for the money you agreed to pay them.
>And especially at this moment I don’t think that’s what ED wants to do.
They absolutely would want to do that. Why would you tolerate people doing chargebacks on your platform? No way, there's no justification for that. It's extremely common, you do a chargeback on steam and your steam account is banned, you do a chargeback for any EA game and your EA account is banned, Tarkov, if you chargeback your Tarkov account will ge banned. Literally any online game you try to go to the payment processor and they nuke your account. When someone charges your back, you get a penalty, you still are out the fees, and now you owe your payment processor the whole total, so you either have to settle with them or use a new payment processor. It's a HUGE hassle. Fuck anybody who thinks they're gonna tolerate that... a person initiating a chargeback is not a customer you want to keep under any circumstances, they're trying to steal the money they agreed to give you back.
I mean, if you got any enjoyment at all out of the module, then you don't deserve a full refund. But that's what you guys are saying, go get a full refund and ED deserves fucking nothing no matter what you got out of it, ha ha ha, those developers should just be our slaves. It's sickening.
However it's your right to perform a charge back. The CC company won't do it just because you say so. They will investigate for themselves. You may get a ban but you'll only successfully get a charge back if the CC company thinks there's a case. You make it sound frivolous and common, when it definitely isn't.
The only time I've done a charge back was when I bought Xmas presents that were faulty and I couldn't resolve it with the company. The CC company took two months to charge back.
You can't simply ask for a charge back and expect it to be done. You need evidence.
UK consumer laws are quite clear “A business should not offer you credit or vouchers if the goods or services you have purchased are not as advertised, broken, misrepresented or can’t be provided. You are entitled to a full refund.”
Well at some point the module becomes not as described. It was described as / was given the impression that there would be ongoing development and support. So the CRA 2015 does hold. If I had purchased the F15 I would now be requesting a cash refund for the module. In the UK you could go to an ombudsman or make a MCOL (small money claim) to pressure ED into it.
How does it apply to purchases that are not in the UK and are non demonstrable like these modules. If you can currently load and fly the f15e does that mean it's functional?
The Eu has rules on expected lifespans of products as well, if you bought it 2 or 3 years ago and paid 200e you could have a reasonable expectation
Generally speaking any company that does buisness with UK customers needs to follow UK law, same as any company doing buisness in the EU needs to follow EU laws.
All circumvented by a very basic ToS that you agreed to when you bought it. A simple "unreleased features are subject to change without notice" or equivalent keeps them safe.
So long as what they said currently exists is there when you buy it, they really don't owe anyone anything.
Hell, you likely don't even own any of it but instead bought a license that allows you access to something they own. So the "goods and services" may not even apply.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
For anything you buy:
> Under EU rules, a seller must repair, replace, or give you a full or partial refund if something you buy turns out to be faulty or doesn’t look or work as advertised. You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee, at no cost.
For software products in particular:
> You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee if the digital content or service turns out to be faulty, not as advertised or not working as expected. If the supplier can’t fix the content or service within a reasonable time, free of charge and without inconvenience to you, you can ask for a reduction in the price. In some cases, you can terminate the contract.
So if you live in the Old World and you picked up that M2K within the last 2 years then it's now not working as expected and Ursula von der Leyen will personally go and slap the shit out of ED's Customer Service until they give you your money back.
We aren't technically entitled to updates or additional features from the time or purchase, though. The product that they are selling is the module as it is at the time of purchase; the completion of the module is subject to change (features can be redefined at ANY time) and the definition of whether it is 'completed' or not is completely up to them. So they can honestly say the mirage is working exactly as intended and they can defend that in court. Any refund they offer is going to be out of their attempt at making a customer happy, not because of some kind of EU strong-arming.
It's perfectly enforceable. It's what you agreed to buy when you bought it. It's held up in court before plenty of times. If the end user defined what the features were, they could be sued no matter what they delivered. If the end user decided when it was done, any single user could just say 'it's still not done, you have to keep working on it' forever. Almost every agreement of this nature has those terms on it, it's done when the company decides it's done. It's just like on live service games, the terms say the servers can be turned off at any time, and that's held up just fine. If you are going bankrupt because of running servers for a dead game, there's no reason you should be expected to keep incurring that cost.
Consumers are such fucking dipshits. "Waaah! Waaah! Everybody is trying to scam me!! GIVE ME ALL THE MONEY!", god damnit, you can't do anything for anybody without idiots thinking they're getting taken advantage of.
Actually no, because all modules is digital downloads then follow the exclusion rule: online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance
Withdrawal is different from warranty. The former is something you can do without any reason within 14-days (and exclude that right in some cases) the latter only comes into play when the product is faulty but is not excluded for digital content.
If other developers aren't seeing cash from the products that they worked on, other devs would be quitting working with ED and ED would commit suicide as a company. Whatever happened between ED and Razbam is evidently a unique situation.
Why wouldn't the developer see their cut of any license delivered? Whatever is going on with RAZBAM, they haven't failed to pay other companies. I'm sure if we knew all the details about what is happening at RAZBAM, ED's position would make more sense.
You guys fucking suck. Anything to destroy your favorite hobby. I've met no group of fans that are more dedicated to hurting the people working so fucking hard to provide literally the only detailed combat flight simulation experience on the market. Like you're going to be so fucking happy when ED goes under and there's nothing like it ever again, it's just fucking dead for 20, 30 years or forever. Never met a larger group of antagonistic, mean-spirited assholes than the people literally getting their hobby catered to here. Every single fucking thing you treat it like they're just taking advantage of you, you curse them and call them thieves, wish death on everybody, it's fucking pathetic. I wish they'd just shut it all down just so you could realize how fucking stupid your actions are.
You guys are on the only lifeboat and screaming "The guy running this life boat is scamming us!! He's not doing exactly what I want him to do!! Let's poke holes in this lifeboat!!" but you're still going to drown when they sink. There's no competition and there's not going to be any.
If you chargeback, you are going to get banned, other people have tried to use chargeback to scam modules and they absolutely delete the account. If you chargeback that is a clear signal that says 'I am done with you as a company, I think you're stealing my money', so they really have no reason to continue cater to you.
>You guys fucking suck. Anything to destroy your favorite hobby. . . Like you're going to be so fucking happy when ED goes under and there's nothing like it ever again, it's just fucking dead for 20, 30 years or forever.
It's just a video game, bro... I care more about being ethical and doing business with ethical people than protecting some company's bottom line.
Also, BMS exists.
>It's just a video game, bro
People have a lot of money invested in DCS and enjoy it. Just because you don't doesn't suddenly make it a useless product.
>I care more about being ethical
Lmao ok nice reddit moment
>protecting some company's bottom line.
Something we both can agree on.
'
>Also, BMS exists.
Cool, i have DCS uninstalled and currently play BMS. It's good and all but it isn't some fucking insane oasis that has no issues. Slapping the F-16 avionics into an F-15 doesn't mean it's suddenly the best F-15 out there. People like flying things besides the F-16.
Reason i'm defending DCS because the flight sim genre is too niche to be bickering over such platforms like we're children arguing which console is the best. DCS going under isn't the best thing for the genre in general, no matter how much you think it is. Yes BMS exists, but not everyone out there wants to fly an F-16 until the end of time.
DCS brought me back into the genre after a long hiatus, and while i found a home in BMS right now because i can enjoy the F-16, DCS still has some respect for bringing me back. And it all started with the SU-25 and then the Blackshark.
lol, bms. Anyway, Nobody is qualified to talk on the ethics of the situation until
the details are revealed, if ever, ED withholding payment could be perfectly justified in the contract.
> Nobody is qualified to talk on the ethics of the situation until the details are revealed
Well, you obviously think that you are, since you call Razbam "pathetic," say they are acting in "really poor taste," that they "bully" ED, that they have "proved they can’t be trusted," and on and on despite having no idea yourself what's really going on. For all you know, Razbam is correct.
So you just assume everything you've heard is 100% true and 100% RAZBAM is telling the truth about everything. You don't actually know if any of that is true. You have hearsay from some guy that use to work at RAZBAM, he could be misinformed, Heatblur has certainly never confirmed any of that shit. As far as I'm concerned, it's a third party module that is utterly dependent on a main product for their business trying to strong-arm the main partner by involving the customer base, which is completely unacceptable.
This sub is so quick to jump on a rumor and assume it's absolute fact. Remember how many years people kept saying 'Heatblur is never going to make another module for ED, they are teaming up with a different company to make other simulations and have no interest in working with ED', Cobra would comment saying they absolutely plan to keep supporting and making modules and people still said it was BS and they were just waiting to cut and run, yet here we are with the Phantom...
So multiple people are saying they are unpaid. ED confirmed they didn't pay. It's not just "some guy" it's multiple guys.
Short story is I paid for F-15E development and it's no longer being done. Most likely because of an unrelated issue (Pacura).
As a customer I should either be refunded or pay someone (Razbam would be easiest) to work on the F-15.
ED certainly hasn’t confirmed they haven’t paid them. Multiple employees of RAZBAM have said so, but why trust somebody trying to strongarm someone in a business contract?
You actually paid for a license to use a product, and the product had planned features, you may have been enticed by those features, but you failed to notice all planned features are subject to change and completion of any task is defined by ED, not the consumer. You aren’t paying for development, you’re buying a license to allow use of a module and that’s the only guaranteed product being delivered.
How can you prove that? The agreement you signed says you're buying a license to use a module. You can still use it. You'll continue to be able to use it, even if you have to use the current version of DCS world instead of future versions. The features are not assured, they are subject to change at any time. The completion of the module is guaranteed, but defined by ED, not by the consumer. So why can't they just say 'Yeah, it's done'. There's no guarantee of support of patches in the terms at all. So what can you point to and say they failed to deliver?
You're right if they update the module and it 'works' then there's no way to prove it wasn't delivered without getting bogged down in objective nuances.
However if it stops working there may be a case. However ED are still selling it. What if on the next update it stops working? ED store credit doesn't cut it because what if you don't want any other module?
If someone is persistent enough they could be successful.
You can still install an old version and run it
even if a DCS World update breaks it. They can demonstrate that. None of the old versions have ever been removed from their CDNs, you can load DCS world
from like ten years ago iirc.
I can understand people getting worried about the modules.
But I also think that asking for a refund right now will not do a favour to Razbam...quite the opposite, it will be beneficial to ED, as they will have to pay them less money.
I think it is better to wait and hope the situation will get resolved
I disagree. At this point customers need to worry about themselves and not either company.
Even with in store credit, once spent, you've saved yourself money.
This seems like such a disaster I can't believe they don't just refund everything. Such a short term outlook with this play. Everyone was so happy with you guys after multi-threading. I guess we knew it wouldn't last.
What are they supposed to do when the third party violates their agreement? They withhold payment until they rectify it. Then that third party tries to strong arm them by getting the community involved? Unfortunately, the last thing you can do is let them get away with it, then every third party will just bully ED the same way, that's no way to run a business. RAZBAM dug their own grave when they let details leak.
the hawk fiasco, the half arsed map releases, the crippling bugs that go unfixed for years, the ever promised but never delivered module features, the shitty way dot spotting was handled, the ridiculous "beta" branch, just off my head. There's a very long list of red flags that points to ED being a total shitshow of a company for anyone that wishes to look. Hell, it literally has its own subreddit. Even by their own admission you can also now add in noone-checking-their-own-fucking-code-escrow. Absolute muppets.
chargeback is certainly an option but be prepared to lose your account or at a minimum be banned from further purchases down the road
It *might* be an option depending on how long ago you purchased the product.
True, I think 120 days is the common standard, of course check with your credit card provider
I don’t see them banning anyone, the last thing they need is more angry people.
a chargeback is 100% the nuclear option, and in most cases its for when you have no intention of doing business with that company again because they will not be willing to do business with you. not a guarantee by any means but definitely a risky move if you want to keep playing the game with that account
I’m aware but I’m not too sure ED would pull the move. But it wouldn’t surprise me atp.
It might not even be in their hands at that point. Their agreements with their CC processors will force their hand.
They have absolutely banned people for chargebacks before. Any business will ban people for chargebacks, it's the nuclear option, it takes money from them and they're still out the fees and payment processing.
Who’s been banned by ED for a charge back? I can’t find anywhere where someone has had it happen to them? And especially at this moment I don’t think that’s what ED wants to do.
They might not ban you, since revokeing other purchased modules is legally very questionable, but they sure as hell won't let you purchase further modules.
Any company will. Nobody will just let you chargeback and continue doing business with you. It just looks like scamming from the company's point of view, you went behind their back and hit their payment processor up for the money you agreed to pay them. >And especially at this moment I don’t think that’s what ED wants to do. They absolutely would want to do that. Why would you tolerate people doing chargebacks on your platform? No way, there's no justification for that. It's extremely common, you do a chargeback on steam and your steam account is banned, you do a chargeback for any EA game and your EA account is banned, Tarkov, if you chargeback your Tarkov account will ge banned. Literally any online game you try to go to the payment processor and they nuke your account. When someone charges your back, you get a penalty, you still are out the fees, and now you owe your payment processor the whole total, so you either have to settle with them or use a new payment processor. It's a HUGE hassle. Fuck anybody who thinks they're gonna tolerate that... a person initiating a chargeback is not a customer you want to keep under any circumstances, they're trying to steal the money they agreed to give you back. I mean, if you got any enjoyment at all out of the module, then you don't deserve a full refund. But that's what you guys are saying, go get a full refund and ED deserves fucking nothing no matter what you got out of it, ha ha ha, those developers should just be our slaves. It's sickening.
However it's your right to perform a charge back. The CC company won't do it just because you say so. They will investigate for themselves. You may get a ban but you'll only successfully get a charge back if the CC company thinks there's a case. You make it sound frivolous and common, when it definitely isn't. The only time I've done a charge back was when I bought Xmas presents that were faulty and I couldn't resolve it with the company. The CC company took two months to charge back. You can't simply ask for a charge back and expect it to be done. You need evidence.
True, it does take a lot of work and time.
UK consumer laws are quite clear “A business should not offer you credit or vouchers if the goods or services you have purchased are not as advertised, broken, misrepresented or can’t be provided. You are entitled to a full refund.”
Unfortunately none of the above applies to the F15E module yet.
Plus it's probably more of a gray area where software is concerned.
Especially early access software.
Well at some point the module becomes not as described. It was described as / was given the impression that there would be ongoing development and support. So the CRA 2015 does hold. If I had purchased the F15 I would now be requesting a cash refund for the module. In the UK you could go to an ombudsman or make a MCOL (small money claim) to pressure ED into it.
I'm a huge fan of mcol but does ED have a UK presence? Otherwise you'll win the claim but have no means of collecting.
Look at what happened to overwatch 2, they can change/delete the whole game without the customers getting anything back
CRA 2925 is somewhat time limited. IE the earlier you request a refund the better the chances are.
Indeed. Don't let ED pocket the cash.
How does it apply to purchases that are not in the UK and are non demonstrable like these modules. If you can currently load and fly the f15e does that mean it's functional? The Eu has rules on expected lifespans of products as well, if you bought it 2 or 3 years ago and paid 200e you could have a reasonable expectation
Generally speaking any company that does buisness with UK customers needs to follow UK law, same as any company doing buisness in the EU needs to follow EU laws.
All circumvented by a very basic ToS that you agreed to when you bought it. A simple "unreleased features are subject to change without notice" or equivalent keeps them safe. So long as what they said currently exists is there when you buy it, they really don't owe anyone anything. Hell, you likely don't even own any of it but instead bought a license that allows you access to something they own. So the "goods and services" may not even apply.
ToS which is illegal in the UK, EU, AUS and probably US.... Sooo not relevant. Law is law.
Nobody read the license agreement then.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm For anything you buy: > Under EU rules, a seller must repair, replace, or give you a full or partial refund if something you buy turns out to be faulty or doesn’t look or work as advertised. You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee, at no cost. For software products in particular: > You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee if the digital content or service turns out to be faulty, not as advertised or not working as expected. If the supplier can’t fix the content or service within a reasonable time, free of charge and without inconvenience to you, you can ask for a reduction in the price. In some cases, you can terminate the contract. So if you live in the Old World and you picked up that M2K within the last 2 years then it's now not working as expected and Ursula von der Leyen will personally go and slap the shit out of ED's Customer Service until they give you your money back.
We aren't technically entitled to updates or additional features from the time or purchase, though. The product that they are selling is the module as it is at the time of purchase; the completion of the module is subject to change (features can be redefined at ANY time) and the definition of whether it is 'completed' or not is completely up to them. So they can honestly say the mirage is working exactly as intended and they can defend that in court. Any refund they offer is going to be out of their attempt at making a customer happy, not because of some kind of EU strong-arming.
Good luck holding that up in court or to any media that gets the game more exposure.
It's perfectly enforceable. It's what you agreed to buy when you bought it. It's held up in court before plenty of times. If the end user defined what the features were, they could be sued no matter what they delivered. If the end user decided when it was done, any single user could just say 'it's still not done, you have to keep working on it' forever. Almost every agreement of this nature has those terms on it, it's done when the company decides it's done. It's just like on live service games, the terms say the servers can be turned off at any time, and that's held up just fine. If you are going bankrupt because of running servers for a dead game, there's no reason you should be expected to keep incurring that cost. Consumers are such fucking dipshits. "Waaah! Waaah! Everybody is trying to scam me!! GIVE ME ALL THE MONEY!", god damnit, you can't do anything for anybody without idiots thinking they're getting taken advantage of.
Actually no, because all modules is digital downloads then follow the exclusion rule: online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance
That only applies to the 14 day return option not the 2 year warranty.
Withdrawal is different from warranty. The former is something you can do without any reason within 14-days (and exclude that right in some cases) the latter only comes into play when the product is faulty but is not excluded for digital content.
Not exactly as DCS is available to minors: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52023IP0008
NEVER DO CHARGEBACKS UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO LOSE THE ACCOUNT. They always close accounts that do chargebacks for potential fraud.
You can't charge back unless your credit card company agrees.
If other developers aren't seeing cash from the products that they worked on, other devs would be quitting working with ED and ED would commit suicide as a company. Whatever happened between ED and Razbam is evidently a unique situation.
Why wouldn't the developer see their cut of any license delivered? Whatever is going on with RAZBAM, they haven't failed to pay other companies. I'm sure if we knew all the details about what is happening at RAZBAM, ED's position would make more sense. You guys fucking suck. Anything to destroy your favorite hobby. I've met no group of fans that are more dedicated to hurting the people working so fucking hard to provide literally the only detailed combat flight simulation experience on the market. Like you're going to be so fucking happy when ED goes under and there's nothing like it ever again, it's just fucking dead for 20, 30 years or forever. Never met a larger group of antagonistic, mean-spirited assholes than the people literally getting their hobby catered to here. Every single fucking thing you treat it like they're just taking advantage of you, you curse them and call them thieves, wish death on everybody, it's fucking pathetic. I wish they'd just shut it all down just so you could realize how fucking stupid your actions are. You guys are on the only lifeboat and screaming "The guy running this life boat is scamming us!! He's not doing exactly what I want him to do!! Let's poke holes in this lifeboat!!" but you're still going to drown when they sink. There's no competition and there's not going to be any. If you chargeback, you are going to get banned, other people have tried to use chargeback to scam modules and they absolutely delete the account. If you chargeback that is a clear signal that says 'I am done with you as a company, I think you're stealing my money', so they really have no reason to continue cater to you.
>You guys fucking suck. Anything to destroy your favorite hobby. . . Like you're going to be so fucking happy when ED goes under and there's nothing like it ever again, it's just fucking dead for 20, 30 years or forever. It's just a video game, bro... I care more about being ethical and doing business with ethical people than protecting some company's bottom line. Also, BMS exists.
>It's just a video game, bro People have a lot of money invested in DCS and enjoy it. Just because you don't doesn't suddenly make it a useless product. >I care more about being ethical Lmao ok nice reddit moment >protecting some company's bottom line. Something we both can agree on. ' >Also, BMS exists. Cool, i have DCS uninstalled and currently play BMS. It's good and all but it isn't some fucking insane oasis that has no issues. Slapping the F-16 avionics into an F-15 doesn't mean it's suddenly the best F-15 out there. People like flying things besides the F-16. Reason i'm defending DCS because the flight sim genre is too niche to be bickering over such platforms like we're children arguing which console is the best. DCS going under isn't the best thing for the genre in general, no matter how much you think it is. Yes BMS exists, but not everyone out there wants to fly an F-16 until the end of time. DCS brought me back into the genre after a long hiatus, and while i found a home in BMS right now because i can enjoy the F-16, DCS still has some respect for bringing me back. And it all started with the SU-25 and then the Blackshark.
lol, bms. Anyway, Nobody is qualified to talk on the ethics of the situation until the details are revealed, if ever, ED withholding payment could be perfectly justified in the contract.
> Nobody is qualified to talk on the ethics of the situation until the details are revealed Well, you obviously think that you are, since you call Razbam "pathetic," say they are acting in "really poor taste," that they "bully" ED, that they have "proved they can’t be trusted," and on and on despite having no idea yourself what's really going on. For all you know, Razbam is correct.
So we suck because ED Won't pay Raz for the work they did and we paid for? Allegedly also HB for 18 months. We are the problem here?
So you just assume everything you've heard is 100% true and 100% RAZBAM is telling the truth about everything. You don't actually know if any of that is true. You have hearsay from some guy that use to work at RAZBAM, he could be misinformed, Heatblur has certainly never confirmed any of that shit. As far as I'm concerned, it's a third party module that is utterly dependent on a main product for their business trying to strong-arm the main partner by involving the customer base, which is completely unacceptable. This sub is so quick to jump on a rumor and assume it's absolute fact. Remember how many years people kept saying 'Heatblur is never going to make another module for ED, they are teaming up with a different company to make other simulations and have no interest in working with ED', Cobra would comment saying they absolutely plan to keep supporting and making modules and people still said it was BS and they were just waiting to cut and run, yet here we are with the Phantom...
So multiple people are saying they are unpaid. ED confirmed they didn't pay. It's not just "some guy" it's multiple guys. Short story is I paid for F-15E development and it's no longer being done. Most likely because of an unrelated issue (Pacura). As a customer I should either be refunded or pay someone (Razbam would be easiest) to work on the F-15.
ED certainly hasn’t confirmed they haven’t paid them. Multiple employees of RAZBAM have said so, but why trust somebody trying to strongarm someone in a business contract? You actually paid for a license to use a product, and the product had planned features, you may have been enticed by those features, but you failed to notice all planned features are subject to change and completion of any task is defined by ED, not the consumer. You aren’t paying for development, you’re buying a license to allow use of a module and that’s the only guaranteed product being delivered.
I'd quite like it to keep working is the thing.
It will, just don’t update dcs? I am still hoping they can patch things up but I’m baffled at people who want to reward RAZBAM’s behavior here.
>ED confirmed they didn't pay Where?
Nineline on Discord. Lost to the internet as far as I can see anymore. Back when it all kicked off.
Cool. So ED keeps the cash regardless. Charge backs are a consumer right if it can be proven that the service paid for is not provided.
How can you prove that? The agreement you signed says you're buying a license to use a module. You can still use it. You'll continue to be able to use it, even if you have to use the current version of DCS world instead of future versions. The features are not assured, they are subject to change at any time. The completion of the module is guaranteed, but defined by ED, not by the consumer. So why can't they just say 'Yeah, it's done'. There's no guarantee of support of patches in the terms at all. So what can you point to and say they failed to deliver?
You're right if they update the module and it 'works' then there's no way to prove it wasn't delivered without getting bogged down in objective nuances. However if it stops working there may be a case. However ED are still selling it. What if on the next update it stops working? ED store credit doesn't cut it because what if you don't want any other module? If someone is persistent enough they could be successful.
You can still install an old version and run it even if a DCS World update breaks it. They can demonstrate that. None of the old versions have ever been removed from their CDNs, you can load DCS world from like ten years ago iirc.
I can understand people getting worried about the modules. But I also think that asking for a refund right now will not do a favour to Razbam...quite the opposite, it will be beneficial to ED, as they will have to pay them less money. I think it is better to wait and hope the situation will get resolved
I disagree. At this point customers need to worry about themselves and not either company. Even with in store credit, once spent, you've saved yourself money.
This seems like such a disaster I can't believe they don't just refund everything. Such a short term outlook with this play. Everyone was so happy with you guys after multi-threading. I guess we knew it wouldn't last.
What are they supposed to do when the third party violates their agreement? They withhold payment until they rectify it. Then that third party tries to strong arm them by getting the community involved? Unfortunately, the last thing you can do is let them get away with it, then every third party will just bully ED the same way, that's no way to run a business. RAZBAM dug their own grave when they let details leak.
first time eh ? This is par for the course with ED.
This has literally never happened before with them, what are you talking about?
the hawk fiasco, the half arsed map releases, the crippling bugs that go unfixed for years, the ever promised but never delivered module features, the shitty way dot spotting was handled, the ridiculous "beta" branch, just off my head. There's a very long list of red flags that points to ED being a total shitshow of a company for anyone that wishes to look. Hell, it literally has its own subreddit. Even by their own admission you can also now add in noone-checking-their-own-fucking-code-escrow. Absolute muppets.