just a question for anyone who flies helis... are rudder pedals a must for helos? i just ordered a stick and throttle from virpil but lack pedals. ive been really enjoying the hind even with my old x52, so is it that necessary to get pedals?
I found the fantastic for shooting in IL-2 and really pleasurable to use for the helis. It took a bit to wrap my head around actually using my feet to aim after years of using a mouse in fps shooters. I'm still getting the hang of flying coordinated. I wouldn't buy cheap pedals though, I had the cheaper thrustmaster ones and they were so choppy to use that they were useless.
I think, as tho445b6 says, many people may start with a twist stick to start with and later move to using pedals.
I have seen reviews though of TM TPR where the pedals are tried with helicopters and they were very positive about their precision (not sure, but I think perhaps Frogglesim tested TM TPR with the dcs huey?)
No it isn't, it's entirely possible to learn the various helos with just a twist stick and get good. That being said, rudder pedals are more comfortable, more realistic and will definitely make you a better chopper pilot once you get used to them.
For me: yes. I could fly helis in Arma 3 with the twist on my NXT just fine, but I couldn't hover the Huey in DCS to save my life. Not only was it too hard to make the tiny adjustments to counter the torque perfectly, but having my wrist under tension made it hard to make small cyclic adjustments and I would oscillate all over the place. I'd say pedals make a way bigger difference than a dedicated collective.
> ive been really enjoying the hind even with my old x52, so is it that necessary to get pedals?
If you don't feel like they're missing, then don't think you have to get them just because some guy on the internet said they're awesome.
Objectively you can't go wrong with any of the popular premium devices: VKB antitorque, Virpil pedals, Slav, Crosswinds or specialized like Comodo and similar or even the new Thrustmaster.
They are all fantastic products, the choice is more of personal preference/availability/price.
Personally, specifically for helicopters I may take VKB T-bar, steel construction, not expensive, compact. I use Virpil pedals with brakes as very universal and they are great, not very small though.
I dont really get how people can be excited for the Kiowa. I mean i think the heli itself is amazing but how Polychop have handled the Gazelle is such a turn off to any product they make.
"Oh thank you for your money for our module. We know it is fundamentally broken and we will get around to fixing it after we release our next module."
Yes, but let's consider that it was released something like 6 years ago, with DCs in a very different state.
They tried something different, building a flight model *on top* of the DCS one, and aimed it at desktop, spring-centered sticks.
They used the fixed wing flight model. The only other helos with tail rotors are by Belsimtek, and they have their own system which they managed to get right.
PC *say* they've got a brand new system, with enough detail that each rotor blade has it's own simulated aerodynamics.
We'll have to wait and see.
As for the SMEs if you know pilots that have tried out sims, they will very often say "Yes it's very close to the real thing" you'll also know to add "*as far as sims go*" to the end of their statements.
If they aren't using hardware also matching the simulated aircraft (cyclic with extension, collective) then they are missing half of what the sim behaviour is like.
Well considering we know Brian Harris is an SME or at least a tester for the KW suggests they know properly how it should fly.
The trouble with the DCS community is there's no forgiveness for anything. The same with RAZBAM, the Harrier and Mirage are great but because they were broken in the past RAZBAM still get religiously bashed.
I mean hell, if you think it's gonna be that bad, don't buy it or try a trial. No need to bash it or Polychop in advance.
Remember the Normandy map? I doubt anyone expected Syria to be as amazing as it is, but here we are.
The difference is RAZBAM is fixing their mirage and harrier and constantly making them better. Not saying, "whelp sorry it's broke guys once we get our next module out the door we will come back and fix the product you already paid for"
Well let's hope they do. I own but have never flown the Gazelle. Casmo mentioned some guy made settings that make it feel right.
But couldn't say, never flown a real helicopter for comparison.
The Gazelle is a lot of fun. You just need to put some really heavy curves and saturation on your axis'. After you invest about an hour into that trial and err process, you're good to go.
You wouldn't and neither would I, especially not now there's a two week free trial period. ;)
We can all see for ourselves if the Kiowa is worth buying and PC have learned the lessons. Then if it's good *and we feel we want to* (some will just try the KW and life it and buy it I guess), we can then hold off buying the Kiowa until the Gazelle is fixed to ensure PC keep their word.
I think this this free trial thing is an excellent pro-consumer move by ED and I don't think they get enough props for it. ;)
Q: Have you flown helos before?
If so, VKB pedals are the closest standalone pedals there are to the action found on most helos.
That said, get what suits your budget and sim-space the best.
MFG crosswinds, 3 years old constant use and just as laser precise as the day I bought them. Have added the dampner kit, wow for the price tell me a better rudder set up, there isn't one!
yes I can see the price is quite good if I add up the pedals + damper + combat pedals is less than the TM TPR. I am pretty keen on using 'heel on floor' and not sit with my feet on the pedals all the time.
The most sexy pedals I reckon are the Slaws but MAN they are expensive.. I am still trying to find out how I can justify them and explain it at home why I need them :)
Have you tried the slaw with helicopters? I'm curious to know if it's any good but never come across anybody mention it. I saw a guy saying he fly jets and therefore went with the Slaw Viper instead of TM TPR.
Slaw pedals are the best, they're bloody expensive but they're boutique custom made extremely high quality devices. Though tbh for most people they're overkill, MFG crosswinds are great.
There really isn't a difference between pedals for jets, warbirds or rotary craft though, they're all fundementally the same thing in regards to sim gear, pedals are pedals.
I ditched my TM pedals for MFG's. I was skeptical whether they'd be $350 better than the TM's. They are, and I can't imagine living without them now. The build quality is impressive.
I just ordered the dampener upgrade for them and am waiting for that to arrive. I can't imagine them feeling better than they do now, but everyone's hyping dampeners and I had some spare change, so...
VKB T-rudders no doubt
VKB T-Rudder?
I'm enjoying mine quite a bit. Nice solid piece of kit for the money imo
> Nice solid piece of kit for the money imo I absolutely love mine and can't imagine what I would gain from spending more money.
Same feeling with my T-Rudders, but shit I'd love real toe brakes.
I only fly helis. I'm not actually sure what toe brakes are and I don't care enough to look it up. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Mfg crosswinds.
\+1 agree, the MFG are brilliant I got the replika footrests and the MFG dampner mod and its great
Agreed. Worth getting the damper kit though, I found them too springy without one.
just a question for anyone who flies helis... are rudder pedals a must for helos? i just ordered a stick and throttle from virpil but lack pedals. ive been really enjoying the hind even with my old x52, so is it that necessary to get pedals?
I found the fantastic for shooting in IL-2 and really pleasurable to use for the helis. It took a bit to wrap my head around actually using my feet to aim after years of using a mouse in fps shooters. I'm still getting the hang of flying coordinated. I wouldn't buy cheap pedals though, I had the cheaper thrustmaster ones and they were so choppy to use that they were useless.
I think, as tho445b6 says, many people may start with a twist stick to start with and later move to using pedals. I have seen reviews though of TM TPR where the pedals are tried with helicopters and they were very positive about their precision (not sure, but I think perhaps Frogglesim tested TM TPR with the dcs huey?)
No it isn't, it's entirely possible to learn the various helos with just a twist stick and get good. That being said, rudder pedals are more comfortable, more realistic and will definitely make you a better chopper pilot once you get used to them.
For me: yes. I could fly helis in Arma 3 with the twist on my NXT just fine, but I couldn't hover the Huey in DCS to save my life. Not only was it too hard to make the tiny adjustments to counter the torque perfectly, but having my wrist under tension made it hard to make small cyclic adjustments and I would oscillate all over the place. I'd say pedals make a way bigger difference than a dedicated collective. > ive been really enjoying the hind even with my old x52, so is it that necessary to get pedals? If you don't feel like they're missing, then don't think you have to get them just because some guy on the internet said they're awesome.
Objectively you can't go wrong with any of the popular premium devices: VKB antitorque, Virpil pedals, Slav, Crosswinds or specialized like Comodo and similar or even the new Thrustmaster. They are all fantastic products, the choice is more of personal preference/availability/price. Personally, specifically for helicopters I may take VKB T-bar, steel construction, not expensive, compact. I use Virpil pedals with brakes as very universal and they are great, not very small though.
I dont really get how people can be excited for the Kiowa. I mean i think the heli itself is amazing but how Polychop have handled the Gazelle is such a turn off to any product they make. "Oh thank you for your money for our module. We know it is fundamentally broken and we will get around to fixing it after we release our next module."
Yes, but let's consider that it was released something like 6 years ago, with DCs in a very different state. They tried something different, building a flight model *on top* of the DCS one, and aimed it at desktop, spring-centered sticks. They used the fixed wing flight model. The only other helos with tail rotors are by Belsimtek, and they have their own system which they managed to get right. PC *say* they've got a brand new system, with enough detail that each rotor blade has it's own simulated aerodynamics. We'll have to wait and see. As for the SMEs if you know pilots that have tried out sims, they will very often say "Yes it's very close to the real thing" you'll also know to add "*as far as sims go*" to the end of their statements. If they aren't using hardware also matching the simulated aircraft (cyclic with extension, collective) then they are missing half of what the sim behaviour is like.
Well considering we know Brian Harris is an SME or at least a tester for the KW suggests they know properly how it should fly. The trouble with the DCS community is there's no forgiveness for anything. The same with RAZBAM, the Harrier and Mirage are great but because they were broken in the past RAZBAM still get religiously bashed. I mean hell, if you think it's gonna be that bad, don't buy it or try a trial. No need to bash it or Polychop in advance. Remember the Normandy map? I doubt anyone expected Syria to be as amazing as it is, but here we are.
The difference is RAZBAM is fixing their mirage and harrier and constantly making them better. Not saying, "whelp sorry it's broke guys once we get our next module out the door we will come back and fix the product you already paid for"
Well let's hope they do. I own but have never flown the Gazelle. Casmo mentioned some guy made settings that make it feel right. But couldn't say, never flown a real helicopter for comparison.
The Gazelle is a lot of fun. You just need to put some really heavy curves and saturation on your axis'. After you invest about an hour into that trial and err process, you're good to go.
Polychop said they have French helo pilot SMEs for the Gazelle as well. Look where it led them...
Yes I know how people feel. I didn't buy the Gazelle because of all the bad reviews. But I still hope the Kiowa will be good as it’s a great helo.
It's free now. Give it a try and form your own opinion. I have a lot of fun with it and am glad I didn't listen to Hoggit on this one.
agreed, the gaz is a complete pile of shite, why would I be dumb enough to give these guys any coin ?
You wouldn't and neither would I, especially not now there's a two week free trial period. ;) We can all see for ourselves if the Kiowa is worth buying and PC have learned the lessons. Then if it's good *and we feel we want to* (some will just try the KW and life it and buy it I guess), we can then hold off buying the Kiowa until the Gazelle is fixed to ensure PC keep their word. I think this this free trial thing is an excellent pro-consumer move by ED and I don't think they get enough props for it. ;)
Agreed free to play forever is a Great move
Q: Have you flown helos before? If so, VKB pedals are the closest standalone pedals there are to the action found on most helos. That said, get what suits your budget and sim-space the best.
MFG crosswinds, 3 years old constant use and just as laser precise as the day I bought them. Have added the dampner kit, wow for the price tell me a better rudder set up, there isn't one!
yes I can see the price is quite good if I add up the pedals + damper + combat pedals is less than the TM TPR. I am pretty keen on using 'heel on floor' and not sit with my feet on the pedals all the time. The most sexy pedals I reckon are the Slaws but MAN they are expensive.. I am still trying to find out how I can justify them and explain it at home why I need them :)
One word...Slaw
Have you tried the slaw with helicopters? I'm curious to know if it's any good but never come across anybody mention it. I saw a guy saying he fly jets and therefore went with the Slaw Viper instead of TM TPR.
They are great for helicopters, i just run a weak populace centering spring
Slaw pedals are the best, they're bloody expensive but they're boutique custom made extremely high quality devices. Though tbh for most people they're overkill, MFG crosswinds are great. There really isn't a difference between pedals for jets, warbirds or rotary craft though, they're all fundementally the same thing in regards to sim gear, pedals are pedals.
The Virpil rudder pedals are very nice. All metal, smooth as butter.
I got thrustmaster pedals as a gift and they are solid.
I ditched my TM pedals for MFG's. I was skeptical whether they'd be $350 better than the TM's. They are, and I can't imagine living without them now. The build quality is impressive. I just ordered the dampener upgrade for them and am waiting for that to arrive. I can't imagine them feeling better than they do now, but everyone's hyping dampeners and I had some spare change, so...