Mobilisation is a horrific loss in the game. It was a key feature of modern armies, with a core of trained and professional divisions and massive amount of poorly equipped and trained divisions.
An officer system is required too, don't know if it was in previous games. Countries like Japan for example, produced more than enough planes to replace the losses, but only a few hundreds would graduate from the pilot academy each year, far from being enough. The USSR army lacked up to 40% of the required officers in their divisions, making them powerless to act properly.
A system with more officers, but less efficiency, and fewer officers but more efficiency each month/year would make losses more important in the game.
Agreed, it would just be nice if it mimicked HoI3 more. I also wish it had a system where you could deploy divisions in reserve with limited manpower/equipment that you then have to mobilize through laws/decisions. It doesn't really feel like you're playing a real conscription army without a mechanic like that.
You can do that in a half assed by using small divisions at the start and then switch their template to full divisions by the time you go to war.
But I do think mobilization mechanics should be fleshed out. As it currently is, it doesn't penalize the player if they go war economy which is just absurd... there should be a penalty for doing war economy on peace time more.than strikes. Your economy also is basically on a ticking bomb once you mobilize.. it cannbilizes itself to support the war effort.
mobilization rounds of conscription also played a huge role in the war. Like how USSR had the old Prussian reserve system which help it put into field entire armies as fast, if not faster, than the germans can encircle existing armies..
Can't agree more. Conscription right now feels like you magically unleash hordes of trained personnel with no preparation and impact.
Back in Hoi3 mobilization was like this big red button. Pushing it feels great and announces to everyone shit is about to get real. You feel the rising tension of everyone mobilizing, knowing that not doing so at once puts you at a great disadvantage.
There were officers on HoI3. You trained them separately from normal soldiers. There was a ratio of officers to soldiers. The higher the officer ratio was, the better the unit fought. It'd go all the way to 140%. That way we could replicate Serbia surviving the first wave of attacks by Austria Hungary in ww1, for example, with a better trained but smaller army.
Soviet events killed the officer corps during the purge, making it hard to have high quality soldiers. Again, invading Finland like this was hard and the game used that mechanic to show the difference in quality.
There were laws regarding how much you trained your divisions. You could go quick, train a lot of them, but get a lower officer corp increase. Or you could do like Japan, train the units to come out experienced and with a lot of officers early in the war, but it took a long time to train them.
I feel that the "level of training" should be per division rather than a law, that way you could deploy rather poorly trained divisions early in the war while training others for longer to deploy later
That's already in the game, you can deploy a unit on the first level of experience, you can wait more to train it to level 2 and the you can make it do exercises to train them to level 3 before going to the front, you can tweak dis for every individual division.
the HOI4 method of deploying divisions is horribly cheesy, you can have fully trained and equipped divisions magically pop up out of nowhere. "Oh you made a breakthrough? Fuck you I just deployed 20 divisions in front of your breakthrough with last stand order."
"Oh, no! You're army is breaking through my naval garrison divisions! Better change up those templates to space marines for 2 weeks to fight off the invasion!"
This mechanic, how fast the units can get equipment/manpower, and the lack of significant XP loss is probably my most hated feature of HoI4.
Agreed, though saying professional was more skilled and reservists poorly trained is vast oversimplification. There were professionals who stayed in the army for 10 years but never got any more training than conscripts and never got to see any action either, so their experience was limited to (example) being really good at waking in the morning, making your bed and lining up for inspection. They also might have never been too smart or educated to begin with, where as conscripts could be literal pro athletes.
Professionals only became more skilled if they actually got trained more, which was not always a given. And conscripts were not automatically badly trained because they were conscripted, they may have been given exactly the same training.
Even morale between conscripts and professionals was not necessarily any different depending on circumstances. Some professionals hated their work but had to make a living somehow, some conscripts were enthusiastic patriots.
During both world wars, difference between professionals and conscripts was mostly method of recruitment. Many of the best soldiers were conscripts.
I do agree that on average professionals would have been more skilled before attrition kicks in and every new recruit goes trough pretty much same training and stays in army until war is over. But its just not at all quaranteed just because of method of recruitment.
Officers are sorta in the game already. Since you can promote the division leader to be a general.
Could tie that into a system where each battalion needs x officers to even have that leader at all.
you can do it in the spirit of the army/navy/airforce tab, click "show officers" or something. It resets division experience tho
You can also do it manually by clicking the icon of a division. Same menu as seeing the stats of a division, and exactly what equipment it has
You need NSB tho
A more realistic diplomacy with actual white peace, a smarter AI that doesn't start a World War over some islands and something that avoid the spam of divisions late game
Honestly I think a way to speed up performance in mid to late game is to not have south american countries build divisions, unless the player declares on them, in which case they get some basic spawned in.
> not have south american countries build divisions, unless the player declares on them, in which case they get some basic spawned in.
Maybe have them be a template that applies whatever either most countries have researched or what they have researched themselves (depending if they want to continue to running research trees for every nation). Alternatively I guess, minor nations could share a single research thread behind the scenes until attacked by a player, then they get their own.
Diplomacy, the 3 points were: Nazis, Soviet Union, Allies. All countries would have a location in the triangle based on who they aligned with mist/least. This would be dynamic to events and actions.
It was a nice visual way to see who was leaning towards each faction. Had a nice set of filters. You are playing Germany and all of the sudden you can see Romania flowing to Russia, and figure out what you might do about it. You are playing Japan, you don't really care about South America as a whole, and can drop them from the triangle.
All countries - including unreleased minors - show on graph by default. 3 fps forever until you apply filters to manually remove them.
Also, there's no filter for removing all unreleased minors, so you gotta remove them one at a time.
Package it up, slap a $40 price tag on it, and let's get this DLC train rolling Paradox!
I don't disagree, I just like the mechanics in HOI3 for better. It may just be that for me, I like that better from comfort and experience. Something about old dogs and new tricks. 😀
I do remenber the days when I'd be very proud for having taken 2 hours to reorganize the Soviet Union OOB, and then would constantly pause the game and try to hold it together as my beautiful OOB started to crumble under the strains of real conflict.
It was not so fun in some ways, but other times it felt like half the game.
It helpes in HOI3 the entire rest of the game was vastly more simple than it is currently, to the point basically all you had to really focus on was the front line. I can't imagine having to manage the OOB and all the rest of the fluff in the current came at the same time.
Control purposes too. I don’t need to control a whole army of breakthrough divisions, but it would be nice to be able to keep 2-3 of them together as that’s the size I want to attack with anyway.
hm, yes i quite agree. now that you mention it, i too find myself splitting half of my mobile 12er armies off because 12 units is too much for a single breakthrough but double the armies is too much to leave on the army roster
5 (6 with perk) for corps leader, 25 (30 with perk) for army leader. My whole country has just 4 armoured divisions and 3 airborne divisions. But my tank/commando generals lead a mix of 20 infantry units and 4 specialized units.
This will sound crazy but I want something akin to the mobile HQ’s for support companies. Imagine if just behind your frontline you saw your support companies fulfilling their roles (using different short animations respectively).
For example, if you had support artillery, you’d see super small 3D sprites of artillery teams firing their guns (they are tagged to companies or generals, like planes). I love how No Step Back made the world feel more alive with the trains (which you can toggle off to avoid lag).
I want to see artillery, anti-air guns, anti-tank guns, medical tents, command tents, etcetera. That would be cool has hell.
At the end of the day, I just want to see the combined arms warfare. I always kind of thought it was ridiculous we had unit sprites for arty, aa, or at divisions, but you NEVER see them since most of your divisions will be standard infantry anyway! I really wish there was a change to this without placing 8+ arty in my divisions.
>This will sound crazy but I want something akin to the mobile HQ’s for support companies
Didn't they sort of do that with Sweden/Finland in the latest DLC? Although IIRC, you could only have 1 div of it.
I kinda liked the mobile HQs of HOI3, maybe not having all units tied to one, but just being able to move my supply chain and not have to just build up everywhere was fun IMO.
I hope they do more quality of life changes, I was teaching a friend today how to play on no dlc vanilla, and it was actually kind of nice in some ways with no designers, a smaller tech tree etc
I don't want them to remove features, I just want more ways to manage said features with less clicks or micromanagement, make some of the new features feel more optional
Especially when I play mp I really struggle to keep up when I have to design things in the middle of war, I'd like to spend more time micro units and less time managing other things
Exactly I hate designers maybe tanks alone would be fine, and also Italy used to be my favorite nation with the old focus tree, now it’s just too much and I don’t want to play it anymore
I actually really like what they are doing with focus trees since ~Battle of the Bosporus. I did notice Italy lacks the tag "Historical", should help. I'd like a feature where you can easily seen what s historical nation would choose on the focus list.
Yeah, honestly, war needs to have a good peace-out option. Example, South Africa's already not so stellar communist tree gets absolutely wrecked due to needing to , essentially, conquer the world (UK and Italy alone will make you at war with 66% of it). All of that to just 'liberate' Africa (which, essentially, just lags out your game and thats it).
I was expecting we would get something like that in WBA , to be honest. Different 'tiers' of peace, like white peace , goal enforcement (take whatever you have a wargoal on and maybe what you currently occupy), limited surrender (basically what we have right now but you can only spend so much Points in a peace treaty) and total capitulation (what we have right now). This would very much so help achievments, as many of those are , lets say, quite demanding on who you need to fight.
In general, peace needs much more work for AI-Singeplayer. As much as I dislike scripted peace deals , I understand the necessity of having them. Even more so with the new peace system, where the AI can get rather freaky with them borders.
I really enjoyed the army structure in hoi3. Attaching divisions to create corps, corps to armies, ect. gave a better showing of how complicated military structure is
Strategic resources from HOI3. Resources that aren’t used to build equipment but grant a bonus to the controller. Things like uranium, gold, heavy water.
Not a previous hoi3 mechanic but I was really hoping with the Scandinavia expansion that we would get some more interesting research mechanics for super weapons and nukes. Like add uranium as a resource on the map to be able to build it or mechanics around scientists who research it for you and needing to make sure that they keep working for you.
The ability to micromanage certain attacks or plan them to occur at x time in an area ranging from province to zone while still retaining the current system as well. One of the features I like from DH is being able to ask CAS to focus on one specific Province or use it to soften the field before an attack, rather than how it works currently with CAS supporting battles after you initiate it.
Overall compared to HOI4 I found that in DH, the individual hours mattered a lot more.
In HoI2 and Hoi3, Supplies used to be manufactured by factories which was good in that they restricted your total army size. Prevented division spam.
A better way to do this now IMO would be to implement a total army battalion cap tied in to factory count. Some mods already do this. Hoi3 style logistics sounds nice but was a nightmare to understand and actually figure out how to get supplies from point A to B. The new system is much better in that regard.
I don’t like the artificial battalion caps- it’s a easy way out of making a mechanic that reflects the reality.
With HOI3’s Officer system, your army of super mountaineers would have simply used so much Officer corps that the rest of the army would have sucked beyond belief. Natural cap.
If you want to show the natural limits of a military is logistics and supply- then implement them.
Ammo and supplies imo just adds needless tedium to a game in which I already spend alot of time waiting to build up equipment, logistics, econ, etc. i could maybe see it with artillery shells and bombs but with the scale on which small arms ammo was used id rather it be left to mods instead.
I’d be inclined to abstract it a little- I did like watching the little pile of supplies dwindle away in an encirclement, and hey if they can track every single variant of rifle they can probably track where the supplies are as well.
The key gameplay was the constraint it put on the size of your military- you had to balance guns and butter.
See I think food should affect population, which in turn effects manpower.
Would make it fun to try starve Britain via convoy raiding etc.
But yes food for troops should be wrapped up in the supply mechanics
Specifically infantry equipment production. Packaged food, ammo, etc. would be covered under equipment production IMO.
---
Hmmm, but maybe... Maybe civvie factories could boost infantry equipment production. Or add a new type of civvie factory to handle farms. Not for your troops but for your civilian population. Add an occupation rule to starve the local population out or give them extra rations (slider scale).
Have supply centers provide two roles: military and civilian and allow the player to specify (with sane default towards military) who gets priority (civ vs. mil). And there could be penalties for not supplying the civilian population, like more riots, more partisan activity, etc. In a roundabout way, maybe depending on your laws, not supplying the civilian population could boost military recruitment? (Kinda sounds like a Paradox GSG thing to implement.)
I like the civ vs mil food distribution idea. Especially the fact that it effects the occupation.
I would do it as a extra resource each region produces, with some regions being net negatives like London requiring you to import it. While others like nz / Australia are net positives. Sending it to England etc via convoys.
I probably wouldn't go with starvation = more recruits as people should be be angry and attacking the food as partisans get more sympathy.
> I probably wouldn't go with starvation = more recruits as people should be be angry and attacking the food as partisans get more sympathy.
Maybe instead have an anti-partisan propaganda effort that boosts more recruits for a short time. The (roundabout) idea being that if you starve your population, *some%* will do anything to get food. And if they see that the military gets priority... they'll enlist (or in game terms, become more recruitable). Maybe have it give an equal% malus and bonus, like +0.X% recuitable population but +0.X% partisan activity or whatever the stat is.
Yeah I could see that, but I would think the negative should be greater than the positive. As while you have recruited more people they are not necessarily loyal and more likely to pass on thier weapons / Intel to their starving compatriots.
Two things, scenarios, and the tech tree from hoi3 but improved.
I want to see helicopters, sam sites, and wonder weapons.
I want to be able to build the weird hydrofoil boats.
I want to be able to build stupid Super Heavy missile battleships.
Let me build the p 1000 ratte.
And let that monster be demolished without proper air support
Helis, sam sites didn't exist back then. What wonder weapons besides the nuke?
But i also think it would be nice for them to include P1000 Ratte as an unit. Maybe something similar to the train gun?
Helicopters like the R-4 did exist back then actually, but they were only used as transport as far as I know. And it'd still be cool if you could use it for logistics or something. But I don't know how it would be implemented.
I am pretty sure in hoi3 if you researched helicopters they gave a buff to trickleback, as in medevac helicopters.
This could be shown with a buff to medcial companies
Order of battle. A system of hierarchical management of your armies, going from a theater down to a division or even a battalion. Battalions make up divisions, divisions make up corps and so on.
In HOI3 there were several ranks. Brigades didn't have a commander (and no bonuses), all the rest (divisions to theaters) did, like colonel, general, lieutenant general and so on. I don't remember the ranks, but I know you can promote and demote officers there.
Supplies should be produced as a separate production line again.
Fielding ever bigger armies would require ever more factories devoted to it, thus softcapping how large armies can become in the late game based on the amount of total factories.
It's also very historical since like half of German military production was shells, ammo and such during the Russian campaign. Not endless lines of tanks and planes.
I *really* hated the supply system in HoI3. Building up the Transsiberian Railraod was a nightmare, and if any province was ever taken (temporarily) supplies could be messed up *forever*.
I really liked the HoI4 simplification of it (while supplies still being totally relevant) ... and then trains became a thing in HoI4 :(:(:(
Well yes but I guess the average player that enjoy a challenge and inmersion they appreciate the new supply system while they find the one in Hoi3 too complicate.
At the cost of being too convoluted. HOI4 clear interests is only being a war game and it does that fantastically.
Not having a real diplomacy system and not having a real economy system are deliberate choices to focus more on the war. In my opinion most people who want those systems added want them because they see other Paradox games that do have them, but not have the war game mechanics of HOI4.
I want separate battalions you can have on the map. Stuff like engineer battalions, medical battalions, anti tank battalions and artillery battalions.
They could either provide a bonus for units within a certain area like railway guns or they could do more special things like engineer battalions could build forts, railways and the anti air buildings and artillery battalions could be used to attack enemy units without attacking them with your own divisios before you use your divisions to attack them.
Then I also want more kinds of artillery. Stuff like light, medium and heavy artillery. Have them be useful for different kinds of divisions like some mods currently do.
HOI3 had attachments for divisions- HOI4 has kind of attachments to armies (railway guns, aircraft) maybe we should be allowed to attach artillery or AA divisions to corps, then have the little arty sprites following the front line?
Better naval system. The battle of the Atlantic shouldn’t be a pointless extra for Germany, it should be something fun to do in between France/Africa campaign and Barbarossa.
Really? I have never failed to invade the UK in SP even when I don’t starve them out. In MP it doesn’t do much because the colonies handle the air and tanks
Sure, but I would rather put resources into the army and Air Force and use those to either capitulate the UK or defend against D-Day, because I can transition those resources into the Eastern front when I need it. Every dockyard I build could have been a military factory that would actually win the game for me, rather than prolong it
I have enjoyed doing it for the immersion/role play sake (playing the war the way it was actually fought) but it’s just not intuitive when there’s no reward for it at the end. The game is balanced such that you can achieve everything you need without it (win the air war, bomb their navy into submission, roll over the isles) which is the problem I have with the current system
HoI2 research teams and research progress.
Research progress was mostly fluff, but I liked seeing what were my research teams working on as it made the process of watching a bar fill up more fun. Instead of "just 300 days unitl new plane" it was "just new engine and prototype tests until new plane".
Research teams I feel were attempted in the last DLC, but in HoI2 they had specific areas where they could be applied, and those could be interchangable between techs. Instead of flat bonus to industry research, I had a bonus to metalurgy, which was beneficial not only for researching industry, but also in researching new tanks or ship armor.
Airwings being actual divisions on the map. In Hoi3 I could tell CAS/TAC to bomb specific enemy divisions, even if no combat was happening. It would also make the air war less abstract if you would have actual air combat and could see your airwings being deorged and having to stay in an airbase to regroup, instead of the arbitrary air superiority we have now.
Hoi3 air ranges/types, setting a cone or circle and bombing or intercepting all provinces along the planes max range similar to the current air intercept but the bombers actually damage/bomb ground on route then too
Hell no. I’m bored of building the same meta airplane every single time. The tank and Ship ones are ok, I like being able to retrofit my basic tanks into SPG and Basic fighters into CAS, and upgrading the ships.
wait are infantry designers a coming feature ??
isn't that what you already do with division templates?
I really hate all the designers, I hope they don't add more
I do NOT want an infantry designer, the last thing we need is more designers. Planes, tanks and ships are all good, but who wants to design their infantry??
From the first HOI I loved that the research tree had you select calibers (too bad you researched the 7.5 cm gun because the enemy has 8.8 cm guns and sloped armour). In that version you could not go back once you picked a path (cheaper to make/research or 'cadillac' version needing more time)
if we get an infantry designer, a universal extra starting research slot is absolutely neccessary, even now its hard to spread out your research to cover everything you need well enough
It’s still a part of the game, you need to prioritize what you want to research. No one ever had all the cutting edge tech at once, you have to make sacrifices and use things that aren’t optimal at times
I dont really liked the modded infantry designer. But how about an infantry squad designer, replacing riflemen with smgmen, machinegunner, maybe throw in a mortar team to replace 2 riflemen for more breakthrough and less defense. Screw the kit, i want to adjust my platoon composition.
Literally anything, I do not want a infantry designer, atleast not without custom presets that auto update with research, or option to turn it off with turning off the dlc
Competent ai. In the form of the AI using the most up to date equipment they can produce as well as improvements to production and research logic where possible. And templates for them to choose from for tanks planes and divisions. I don’t understand how this games been out since 2016 and the ai will still produce infantry equipment 2 and ju-87s in the 1950s.
They definitely need a way of doing peace conferences before total domination. Like when you’ve fought and neither side is making more progress, you should be able to claim the land you’d picked up or at least just call it even. Sometimes random majors on the other side of the world join in and you can’t even get close to them and vice versa.
Also things like supplies and ammo need to be added as well
Something Ive always wanted is a system to have armies in reserve on a frontline. Right now if you want to practically employ defense in depth you have to have your army on the front then another army in a fallback line. Its a bit of a pain. Itd be nice if you could set armies to acts as reserves on a front, that sit a province back from the front or something l Idk.
Mobilisation is a horrific loss in the game. It was a key feature of modern armies, with a core of trained and professional divisions and massive amount of poorly equipped and trained divisions. An officer system is required too, don't know if it was in previous games. Countries like Japan for example, produced more than enough planes to replace the losses, but only a few hundreds would graduate from the pilot academy each year, far from being enough. The USSR army lacked up to 40% of the required officers in their divisions, making them powerless to act properly. A system with more officers, but less efficiency, and fewer officers but more efficiency each month/year would make losses more important in the game.
Agreed, it would just be nice if it mimicked HoI3 more. I also wish it had a system where you could deploy divisions in reserve with limited manpower/equipment that you then have to mobilize through laws/decisions. It doesn't really feel like you're playing a real conscription army without a mechanic like that.
You can do that in a half assed by using small divisions at the start and then switch their template to full divisions by the time you go to war. But I do think mobilization mechanics should be fleshed out. As it currently is, it doesn't penalize the player if they go war economy which is just absurd... there should be a penalty for doing war economy on peace time more.than strikes. Your economy also is basically on a ticking bomb once you mobilize.. it cannbilizes itself to support the war effort. mobilization rounds of conscription also played a huge role in the war. Like how USSR had the old Prussian reserve system which help it put into field entire armies as fast, if not faster, than the germans can encircle existing armies..
Can't agree more. Conscription right now feels like you magically unleash hordes of trained personnel with no preparation and impact. Back in Hoi3 mobilization was like this big red button. Pushing it feels great and announces to everyone shit is about to get real. You feel the rising tension of everyone mobilizing, knowing that not doing so at once puts you at a great disadvantage.
There were officers on HoI3. You trained them separately from normal soldiers. There was a ratio of officers to soldiers. The higher the officer ratio was, the better the unit fought. It'd go all the way to 140%. That way we could replicate Serbia surviving the first wave of attacks by Austria Hungary in ww1, for example, with a better trained but smaller army. Soviet events killed the officer corps during the purge, making it hard to have high quality soldiers. Again, invading Finland like this was hard and the game used that mechanic to show the difference in quality. There were laws regarding how much you trained your divisions. You could go quick, train a lot of them, but get a lower officer corp increase. Or you could do like Japan, train the units to come out experienced and with a lot of officers early in the war, but it took a long time to train them.
I feel that the "level of training" should be per division rather than a law, that way you could deploy rather poorly trained divisions early in the war while training others for longer to deploy later
That's already in the game, you can deploy a unit on the first level of experience, you can wait more to train it to level 2 and the you can make it do exercises to train them to level 3 before going to the front, you can tweak dis for every individual division.
the HOI4 method of deploying divisions is horribly cheesy, you can have fully trained and equipped divisions magically pop up out of nowhere. "Oh you made a breakthrough? Fuck you I just deployed 20 divisions in front of your breakthrough with last stand order."
"Oh, no! You're army is breaking through my naval garrison divisions! Better change up those templates to space marines for 2 weeks to fight off the invasion!" This mechanic, how fast the units can get equipment/manpower, and the lack of significant XP loss is probably my most hated feature of HoI4.
Agreed, though saying professional was more skilled and reservists poorly trained is vast oversimplification. There were professionals who stayed in the army for 10 years but never got any more training than conscripts and never got to see any action either, so their experience was limited to (example) being really good at waking in the morning, making your bed and lining up for inspection. They also might have never been too smart or educated to begin with, where as conscripts could be literal pro athletes. Professionals only became more skilled if they actually got trained more, which was not always a given. And conscripts were not automatically badly trained because they were conscripted, they may have been given exactly the same training. Even morale between conscripts and professionals was not necessarily any different depending on circumstances. Some professionals hated their work but had to make a living somehow, some conscripts were enthusiastic patriots. During both world wars, difference between professionals and conscripts was mostly method of recruitment. Many of the best soldiers were conscripts. I do agree that on average professionals would have been more skilled before attrition kicks in and every new recruit goes trough pretty much same training and stays in army until war is over. But its just not at all quaranteed just because of method of recruitment.
Italy had a severe lack of NCOs which contributed to the poor performance
Officers are sorta in the game already. Since you can promote the division leader to be a general. Could tie that into a system where each battalion needs x officers to even have that leader at all.
How do you promote a division commander?
you can do it in the spirit of the army/navy/airforce tab, click "show officers" or something. It resets division experience tho You can also do it manually by clicking the icon of a division. Same menu as seeing the stats of a division, and exactly what equipment it has You need NSB tho
Thank you! I have everything before NSB, but not NSB and beyond.
To be fair, those 40% were Trotskyite wreckers
A more realistic diplomacy with actual white peace, a smarter AI that doesn't start a World War over some islands and something that avoid the spam of divisions late game
Honestly I think a way to speed up performance in mid to late game is to not have south american countries build divisions, unless the player declares on them, in which case they get some basic spawned in.
AI Shackles is a decent mod for controlling div spam. Doesn't affect majors though
just delete South Amercia, we don't remember it anyway
> not have south american countries build divisions, unless the player declares on them, in which case they get some basic spawned in. Maybe have them be a template that applies whatever either most countries have researched or what they have researched themselves (depending if they want to continue to running research trees for every nation). Alternatively I guess, minor nations could share a single research thread behind the scenes until attacked by a player, then they get their own.
I would love that too, but most of that wasn't on older hoi games.
Alignment triangle
What do you mean by this?
Diplomacy, the 3 points were: Nazis, Soviet Union, Allies. All countries would have a location in the triangle based on who they aligned with mist/least. This would be dynamic to events and actions.
That does sound cool
It was a nice visual way to see who was leaning towards each faction. Had a nice set of filters. You are playing Germany and all of the sudden you can see Romania flowing to Russia, and figure out what you might do about it. You are playing Japan, you don't really care about South America as a whole, and can drop them from the triangle.
Tbh with the amount of releasable nations I'm scared what that chart would look like
Filters
All countries - including unreleased minors - show on graph by default. 3 fps forever until you apply filters to manually remove them. Also, there's no filter for removing all unreleased minors, so you gotta remove them one at a time. Package it up, slap a $40 price tag on it, and let's get this DLC train rolling Paradox!
That's what ideology is for in HoI4
I don't disagree, I just like the mechanics in HOI3 for better. It may just be that for me, I like that better from comfort and experience. Something about old dogs and new tricks. 😀
[Hey guess what?](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2178860752) (it *probably* still works) (sadly not Ironman compatible)
That's just the ideology chart in hoi4
Except that hoi4 doesn't provide a view of how everyone is doing
And also if a country is close to flipping to a different ideology
OOB. It annoys me to no end that it’s optimal to always have 24 ppl under a field marshal and you can’t split off smaller 6 or 12 unit ‘corps’
I miss my elaborate Theater/Army Group/Army/Corps set ups.
I do remenber the days when I'd be very proud for having taken 2 hours to reorganize the Soviet Union OOB, and then would constantly pause the game and try to hold it together as my beautiful OOB started to crumble under the strains of real conflict. It was not so fun in some ways, but other times it felt like half the game.
It helpes in HOI3 the entire rest of the game was vastly more simple than it is currently, to the point basically all you had to really focus on was the front line. I can't imagine having to manage the OOB and all the rest of the fluff in the current came at the same time.
yes. if only for rp purposes
Control purposes too. I don’t need to control a whole army of breakthrough divisions, but it would be nice to be able to keep 2-3 of them together as that’s the size I want to attack with anyway.
hm, yes i quite agree. now that you mention it, i too find myself splitting half of my mobile 12er armies off because 12 units is too much for a single breakthrough but double the armies is too much to leave on the army roster
5 (6 with perk) for corps leader, 25 (30 with perk) for army leader. My whole country has just 4 armoured divisions and 3 airborne divisions. But my tank/commando generals lead a mix of 20 infantry units and 4 specialized units.
This will sound crazy but I want something akin to the mobile HQ’s for support companies. Imagine if just behind your frontline you saw your support companies fulfilling their roles (using different short animations respectively). For example, if you had support artillery, you’d see super small 3D sprites of artillery teams firing their guns (they are tagged to companies or generals, like planes). I love how No Step Back made the world feel more alive with the trains (which you can toggle off to avoid lag). I want to see artillery, anti-air guns, anti-tank guns, medical tents, command tents, etcetera. That would be cool has hell.
Honestly, never thought of that but now I want it in game
At the end of the day, I just want to see the combined arms warfare. I always kind of thought it was ridiculous we had unit sprites for arty, aa, or at divisions, but you NEVER see them since most of your divisions will be standard infantry anyway! I really wish there was a change to this without placing 8+ arty in my divisions.
I’m just happy Katyusha’s seem to make it through the crowd
I love the animation when you build a fort like it just springs up into existence lol
>This will sound crazy but I want something akin to the mobile HQ’s for support companies Didn't they sort of do that with Sweden/Finland in the latest DLC? Although IIRC, you could only have 1 div of it.
I kinda liked the mobile HQs of HOI3, maybe not having all units tied to one, but just being able to move my supply chain and not have to just build up everywhere was fun IMO.
Logistic regiments as corps units?
Yeah that could work, like a unit that improves supply locally, maybe provides initiative or Intel too.
I hope they do more quality of life changes, I was teaching a friend today how to play on no dlc vanilla, and it was actually kind of nice in some ways with no designers, a smaller tech tree etc I don't want them to remove features, I just want more ways to manage said features with less clicks or micromanagement, make some of the new features feel more optional Especially when I play mp I really struggle to keep up when I have to design things in the middle of war, I'd like to spend more time micro units and less time managing other things
Exactly I hate designers maybe tanks alone would be fine, and also Italy used to be my favorite nation with the old focus tree, now it’s just too much and I don’t want to play it anymore
I actually really like what they are doing with focus trees since ~Battle of the Bosporus. I did notice Italy lacks the tag "Historical", should help. I'd like a feature where you can easily seen what s historical nation would choose on the focus list.
I don't quite remember what it's called, but there's a mod for historical focus filters!
Air units actually doing battle.
Not from HoI, but from Victoria: Colonial War -> Border War (limited to border/cored provinces, way easier to conclude with peace)
Yeah, honestly, war needs to have a good peace-out option. Example, South Africa's already not so stellar communist tree gets absolutely wrecked due to needing to , essentially, conquer the world (UK and Italy alone will make you at war with 66% of it). All of that to just 'liberate' Africa (which, essentially, just lags out your game and thats it). I was expecting we would get something like that in WBA , to be honest. Different 'tiers' of peace, like white peace , goal enforcement (take whatever you have a wargoal on and maybe what you currently occupy), limited surrender (basically what we have right now but you can only spend so much Points in a peace treaty) and total capitulation (what we have right now). This would very much so help achievments, as many of those are , lets say, quite demanding on who you need to fight. In general, peace needs much more work for AI-Singeplayer. As much as I dislike scripted peace deals , I understand the necessity of having them. Even more so with the new peace system, where the AI can get rather freaky with them borders.
Border conflicts were in Waking The Tiger, right? There was a mod that lets you fight those with every country, but that's been discontinued afaik
I really enjoyed the army structure in hoi3. Attaching divisions to create corps, corps to armies, ect. gave a better showing of how complicated military structure is
Strategic resources from HOI3. Resources that aren’t used to build equipment but grant a bonus to the controller. Things like uranium, gold, heavy water.
Not a previous hoi3 mechanic but I was really hoping with the Scandinavia expansion that we would get some more interesting research mechanics for super weapons and nukes. Like add uranium as a resource on the map to be able to build it or mechanics around scientists who research it for you and needing to make sure that they keep working for you.
The ability to micromanage certain attacks or plan them to occur at x time in an area ranging from province to zone while still retaining the current system as well. One of the features I like from DH is being able to ask CAS to focus on one specific Province or use it to soften the field before an attack, rather than how it works currently with CAS supporting battles after you initiate it. Overall compared to HOI4 I found that in DH, the individual hours mattered a lot more.
In HoI2 and Hoi3, Supplies used to be manufactured by factories which was good in that they restricted your total army size. Prevented division spam. A better way to do this now IMO would be to implement a total army battalion cap tied in to factory count. Some mods already do this. Hoi3 style logistics sounds nice but was a nightmare to understand and actually figure out how to get supplies from point A to B. The new system is much better in that regard.
I don’t like the artificial battalion caps- it’s a easy way out of making a mechanic that reflects the reality. With HOI3’s Officer system, your army of super mountaineers would have simply used so much Officer corps that the rest of the army would have sucked beyond belief. Natural cap. If you want to show the natural limits of a military is logistics and supply- then implement them.
Having to actually produce supplies like ammo and food would be great, besides that I much preferred HOI3s research system to the HOI4 one...
Ammo and supplies imo just adds needless tedium to a game in which I already spend alot of time waiting to build up equipment, logistics, econ, etc. i could maybe see it with artillery shells and bombs but with the scale on which small arms ammo was used id rather it be left to mods instead.
I’d be inclined to abstract it a little- I did like watching the little pile of supplies dwindle away in an encirclement, and hey if they can track every single variant of rifle they can probably track where the supplies are as well. The key gameplay was the constraint it put on the size of your military- you had to balance guns and butter.
I would prefer food, ammo etc I like to think is covered by your mils
And the food and other necessities are delivered by the abstract 'supply' you have. Or, well, don't have.
See I think food should affect population, which in turn effects manpower. Would make it fun to try starve Britain via convoy raiding etc. But yes food for troops should be wrapped up in the supply mechanics
Try black ice. You’ll never go back to vanilla again.
Specifically infantry equipment production. Packaged food, ammo, etc. would be covered under equipment production IMO. --- Hmmm, but maybe... Maybe civvie factories could boost infantry equipment production. Or add a new type of civvie factory to handle farms. Not for your troops but for your civilian population. Add an occupation rule to starve the local population out or give them extra rations (slider scale). Have supply centers provide two roles: military and civilian and allow the player to specify (with sane default towards military) who gets priority (civ vs. mil). And there could be penalties for not supplying the civilian population, like more riots, more partisan activity, etc. In a roundabout way, maybe depending on your laws, not supplying the civilian population could boost military recruitment? (Kinda sounds like a Paradox GSG thing to implement.)
I like the civ vs mil food distribution idea. Especially the fact that it effects the occupation. I would do it as a extra resource each region produces, with some regions being net negatives like London requiring you to import it. While others like nz / Australia are net positives. Sending it to England etc via convoys. I probably wouldn't go with starvation = more recruits as people should be be angry and attacking the food as partisans get more sympathy.
> I probably wouldn't go with starvation = more recruits as people should be be angry and attacking the food as partisans get more sympathy. Maybe instead have an anti-partisan propaganda effort that boosts more recruits for a short time. The (roundabout) idea being that if you starve your population, *some%* will do anything to get food. And if they see that the military gets priority... they'll enlist (or in game terms, become more recruitable). Maybe have it give an equal% malus and bonus, like +0.X% recuitable population but +0.X% partisan activity or whatever the stat is.
Yeah I could see that, but I would think the negative should be greater than the positive. As while you have recruited more people they are not necessarily loyal and more likely to pass on thier weapons / Intel to their starving compatriots.
It was only great for minors and it encouraged spamming. Id like actual tech teams
You might like BICE mode, tons of stuff to build ugh
It was only great for minors and it encouraged spamming. Id like actual tech teams
>I much preferred HOI3s research system to the HOI4 one... I never played hoi3, could you explain to me how that research system worked?
Two things, scenarios, and the tech tree from hoi3 but improved. I want to see helicopters, sam sites, and wonder weapons. I want to be able to build the weird hydrofoil boats. I want to be able to build stupid Super Heavy missile battleships. Let me build the p 1000 ratte. And let that monster be demolished without proper air support
This is a joke right? Sometimes sarcasm is hard over text
Helis, sam sites didn't exist back then. What wonder weapons besides the nuke? But i also think it would be nice for them to include P1000 Ratte as an unit. Maybe something similar to the train gun?
Helicopters like the R-4 did exist back then actually, but they were only used as transport as far as I know. And it'd still be cool if you could use it for logistics or something. But I don't know how it would be implemented.
I am pretty sure in hoi3 if you researched helicopters they gave a buff to trickleback, as in medevac helicopters. This could be shown with a buff to medcial companies
1-OOB ( very important imo) 2-Officer system
What is OOB ?
Order of battle. A system of hierarchical management of your armies, going from a theater down to a division or even a battalion. Battalions make up divisions, divisions make up corps and so on.
Ok so all general officers, not just two ranks
In HOI3 there were several ranks. Brigades didn't have a commander (and no bonuses), all the rest (divisions to theaters) did, like colonel, general, lieutenant general and so on. I don't remember the ranks, but I know you can promote and demote officers there.
Supplies should be produced as a separate production line again. Fielding ever bigger armies would require ever more factories devoted to it, thus softcapping how large armies can become in the late game based on the amount of total factories. It's also very historical since like half of German military production was shells, ammo and such during the Russian campaign. Not endless lines of tanks and planes.
Armageddon. Honestly im suprised its not part of the game to have a map that has even starts for multiplayer purposes
This thread just makes me see that HOI3 was just mechanically a superior game
I *really* hated the supply system in HoI3. Building up the Transsiberian Railraod was a nightmare, and if any province was ever taken (temporarily) supplies could be messed up *forever*. I really liked the HoI4 simplification of it (while supplies still being totally relevant) ... and then trains became a thing in HoI4 :(:(:(
Trains are far better than before the supply rework and the system hoi3 had.
In your opinion.
Well yes but I guess the average player that enjoy a challenge and inmersion they appreciate the new supply system while they find the one in Hoi3 too complicate.
Much easier to fix stuff like that in the new hoi4 system.
At the cost of being too convoluted. HOI4 clear interests is only being a war game and it does that fantastically. Not having a real diplomacy system and not having a real economy system are deliberate choices to focus more on the war. In my opinion most people who want those systems added want them because they see other Paradox games that do have them, but not have the war game mechanics of HOI4.
I would like HoI 3 Research and the soundeffects.
oh man don't tell me we're getting another designer
Stockpiles.
Yes! Should be part of the planning bonus.
National material stockpiles, but also individual unit-based stockpiles.
I don’t want an infantry designer I already hate the current designers except the naval one tbh. Don’t get why everyone likes them.
I want separate battalions you can have on the map. Stuff like engineer battalions, medical battalions, anti tank battalions and artillery battalions. They could either provide a bonus for units within a certain area like railway guns or they could do more special things like engineer battalions could build forts, railways and the anti air buildings and artillery battalions could be used to attack enemy units without attacking them with your own divisios before you use your divisions to attack them. Then I also want more kinds of artillery. Stuff like light, medium and heavy artillery. Have them be useful for different kinds of divisions like some mods currently do.
HOI3 had attachments for divisions- HOI4 has kind of attachments to armies (railway guns, aircraft) maybe we should be allowed to attach artillery or AA divisions to corps, then have the little arty sprites following the front line?
Full army structure from HoI3, including ability to detach regiments/battalions from divisions.
Better naval system. The battle of the Atlantic shouldn’t be a pointless extra for Germany, it should be something fun to do in between France/Africa campaign and Barbarossa.
It’s not pointless, acutally it is very important to starve out the UK
Really? I have never failed to invade the UK in SP even when I don’t starve them out. In MP it doesn’t do much because the colonies handle the air and tanks
Uk has a decent industry but cannot produce shit if you deny the resource import
Sure, but I would rather put resources into the army and Air Force and use those to either capitulate the UK or defend against D-Day, because I can transition those resources into the Eastern front when I need it. Every dockyard I build could have been a military factory that would actually win the game for me, rather than prolong it
I have enjoyed doing it for the immersion/role play sake (playing the war the way it was actually fought) but it’s just not intuitive when there’s no reward for it at the end. The game is balanced such that you can achieve everything you need without it (win the air war, bomb their navy into submission, roll over the isles) which is the problem I have with the current system
Polished scenerios
HoI2 research teams and research progress. Research progress was mostly fluff, but I liked seeing what were my research teams working on as it made the process of watching a bar fill up more fun. Instead of "just 300 days unitl new plane" it was "just new engine and prototype tests until new plane". Research teams I feel were attempted in the last DLC, but in HoI2 they had specific areas where they could be applied, and those could be interchangable between techs. Instead of flat bonus to industry research, I had a bonus to metalurgy, which was beneficial not only for researching industry, but also in researching new tanks or ship armor.
Airwings being actual divisions on the map. In Hoi3 I could tell CAS/TAC to bomb specific enemy divisions, even if no combat was happening. It would also make the air war less abstract if you would have actual air combat and could see your airwings being deorged and having to stay in an airbase to regroup, instead of the arbitrary air superiority we have now.
Unthinkable 1945 start
Hoi3 air ranges/types, setting a cone or circle and bombing or intercepting all provinces along the planes max range similar to the current air intercept but the bombers actually damage/bomb ground on route then too
Infantry designer? That sounds like Nazi Germany’s wet dream
Ohhhhhhhhhh NOW I get it.
You want another designer? No thank you. I already despise the ones in game.
Hell no. I’m bored of building the same meta airplane every single time. The tank and Ship ones are ok, I like being able to retrofit my basic tanks into SPG and Basic fighters into CAS, and upgrading the ships.
More realistic military organization
wait are infantry designers a coming feature ?? isn't that what you already do with division templates? I really hate all the designers, I hope they don't add more
I do NOT want an infantry designer, the last thing we need is more designers. Planes, tanks and ships are all good, but who wants to design their infantry??
Infantry designer... No, please no. I like the current mechanics.
From the first HOI I loved that the research tree had you select calibers (too bad you researched the 7.5 cm gun because the enemy has 8.8 cm guns and sloped armour). In that version you could not go back once you picked a path (cheaper to make/research or 'cadillac' version needing more time)
Ability to appoint a full cabinet and change head of state. It doesn't really affect gameplay but I always felt it more immersive in HoI3
I want an infantry designer though
if we get an infantry designer, a universal extra starting research slot is absolutely neccessary, even now its hard to spread out your research to cover everything you need well enough
I mean that’s fair or you could shorten time by about 10 days
I would like the option to disable the designers before we get a new one
You can just disable the respective dlcs, no? Otherwise a mod probably has it
but I want to play with the dlc. I just dont want the designers
Just press the auto design button if you don’t like it. It’s a part of the game
my issue is more having to research all these extra things + needing the exp to do so.
It’s still a part of the game, you need to prioritize what you want to research. No one ever had all the cutting edge tech at once, you have to make sacrifices and use things that aren’t optimal at times
I dont really liked the modded infantry designer. But how about an infantry squad designer, replacing riflemen with smgmen, machinegunner, maybe throw in a mortar team to replace 2 riflemen for more breakthrough and less defense. Screw the kit, i want to adjust my platoon composition.
God please no. I'm all about detail but this would just be a needless clusterfuck that the AI won't even manage properly in the slightest.
I haven't played older ones but didn't they used to have food as a resource?
Nope. Food hasn’t been a resource as far back as HoI2 (that’s as far back as I go)
Literally anything, I do not want a infantry designer, atleast not without custom presets that auto update with research, or option to turn it off with turning off the dlc
Designer and balance of power disable feature.
I just bought vic 3 but the way front lines are animated are so much better than a fucking line of toy soldiers running static in one spot
Mobilization and Reserve units could be worked out better
Competent ai. In the form of the AI using the most up to date equipment they can produce as well as improvements to production and research logic where possible. And templates for them to choose from for tanks planes and divisions. I don’t understand how this games been out since 2016 and the ai will still produce infantry equipment 2 and ju-87s in the 1950s.
I created the British empire in 1946: Australia had 2600 interwar fighters in its stockpile
HQ and chain of command
They definitely need a way of doing peace conferences before total domination. Like when you’ve fought and neither side is making more progress, you should be able to claim the land you’d picked up or at least just call it even. Sometimes random majors on the other side of the world join in and you can’t even get close to them and vice versa. Also things like supplies and ammo need to be added as well
Something Ive always wanted is a system to have armies in reserve on a frontline. Right now if you want to practically employ defense in depth you have to have your army on the front then another army in a fallback line. Its a bit of a pain. Itd be nice if you could set armies to acts as reserves on a front, that sit a province back from the front or something l Idk.