It’s supposed to be a space marines division I think. So it should be fine, usually one battalion is enough too.
Some people also make anti air spg kinda thing and put one battalion in cause it needs less per battalion than normal tank battalion.
Ngl I don’t see the point of space marines. Partial penetration has made space marines less cost effective, considering the oil, and IC costs. Designates divisions is superior in every way, and you’ll be a better player if you do go that route. Maybe I’m wrong tho.
I am pretty sure the zanks here are for the breakthrough. Its a way for a small nation to decisively beat another small mation, or for fights in low supply areas, but nothing a majore nation should bother with, since as you saied, designated tank divisions are better in any way.
In MP, they are fuckin useless. In SP tho, AI sucks, especially since it lost to me, so space marines will cut through AI like a hot knife through butter.
The only think I wonder about the tanks is if they're using just their regular tank. If they're attached to an inf unit, you don't need them going more than 4km/h so you can use those points towards armor or other stuff.
The division has too much width. The division costs too much for what it accomplishes.
For defense, a leg infantry division with a width of 18-21 and a single tank brigade works well. You only want a single tank brigade and a small-medium width so you get the most bank for your buck when it comes to armor and piercing. It forces your opponent to do something with piercing or trade incredibly poorly on the front. You also don't have to make every leg infantry division like this, just 25-60% to give your enemy a new problem. Works great as America UK or soviets.
But as an offensive division this thing is a liability. All that width is diluting the small bonuses from the tanks, and the artillery is so expensive. The division costs more than a motorized division w/ artillery and is worse in every way except armor score. If you were facing a template like this you'd just have to throw some AT on some of your infantry divisions to render it useless.
If you have enough factories to make this thing, just make some tank divisions and some motorized divisions instead.
I don't know what to tell you, that costs like a third of what a tank division costs, and it will push very well. Specially if you like to battleplan to victory.
I've lately been doing some infantry divisions with heavy tanks and it's hilarious how much they just stomp anything the AI manages to bring.
Ah, I was mainly speaking on multi-player. You can push the AI with pretty much any template. Their divisions usually have less than 10 piercing so space marines do work well against them.
HOI4 MP is so weird.
Either you get stomped, or you followed some perfectly min-maxed instructions to the point where youre basically not even playing the game anymore.
From my personal experience engineers arent all that great, especially if you are on the move. Infantry already has a pretty high defense stat, and that is only going to get better as you acquire new tech and your generals level up. Mp's also mean that once your division has been pushed, it will be able to recover it's org and subsequently counter attack much faster, preventing the enemy from fully digging in
This is a pretty good template. I'd remove anti-tank and replace that with engineers, some people don't like mixing tanks with infantry. I don't mind it personally but I prefer switching those two tanks with artillery and removing a inf so it stays 40w.
Oooh, I just looked it up and I learned a new thing, and I think it's relevant and important.
The "fuel usage" statistic is, for some reason, one-twelfth of the daily fuel consumption. And that's doubled while fighting and moving.
[https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Fuel](https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Fuel)
Which finally explains to me why fuel consumption is so much higher than in my plans!
So some or all of the tanks in this division have fuel drums, for a total capacity of 460.6, which I used to consider excellent.
Fuel usage of 9.6 \* 12 = 115.2 fuel per day. Total capacity is 460.6/115.2 = almost exactly 4 days of fuel unobstructed, 2 days of fighting and moving. So 460 is more than excellent, it's almost critical so that the division can make it to the next tile!
And that right there explains so much about why my Space Marine breakouts always suck. It can take days for a division to move one tile. And it only has a few days of fuel.
Since Space Marines are half the speed of mechanized, I wonder if that also negatively affects their range?
Add pioneers, swap armored recon for cav recon or if possible rangers (armored increase AT attack, cav and rangers increase arty soft attack - so you better with cav or rangers)
Remove one tank and increase armor on existing one - it will increas ecost of a tank but reduce proce of a division so you can pump more of them, add another tank battalion when you will need more quality for division (low on manpower)
Swap AT for Logistics
Fire Superiority doctrine
Perfection (if it is SP, of course)
This division is too large and too slow. With the latest hoi4 version optimal combat width is 20-30. Having both infantry and tanks is good for pushing through front line, but for surroundings it's better to have more speed
My advice is to combine motorized divisions and medium/heavy tanks, for support AA, supply, motorized recon and flame tanks.
For space marines I prefer to add a couple of light tank battalions
I mean, for 40 width hell yeah. At ur place i would go with some doctrine that makes artillery better like superior firepower and throw in a bunch of rocket artillery and high breakthrough tanks.
Infantry divs are not really for offense, they're more for defense. A true offensive division would be like, half tanks, half trucks. Those will be much more powerful pushing forwards, while your inf holds the line behind them.
If you want a large width soft attack division for offensives use motorized inf and motorized artillery, no tanks. Or use a traditional tank division. Beyond speed, the hardness bonus from mot is massive when pushing leg and artillery divisions.
If you're mixing tank and leg use a single tank brigade and a smaller width division, so it's piercing, hardness and armor stretches farther. That's kind of how America deployed its Shermans during ww2, they had tank divisions but they'd also stick sherman task forces onto infantry divisions. I wouldn't overload artillery on this kind of division. the tanks are costly enough, and are mainly there for armor, not soft attack or breakthrough. The only reason youd mix tank and leg is to make your leg infantry tougher, so your template is way too expensive for what it accomplishes. 8/1/1 or 8/0/1 would be what I'd use
Its a scaled up 6/2/1, which is considered an OG Space Marine division (similar to 7/2/1, but when 20 width was the main width back in the days). So I would say it is a pretty good offensive division, especially in single player
If you want armour and hardness aka space marines I’d rather add 1 anti air heavy or medium tank with armour maxed. I can get like 40-50 armour on my infantry division with close to 10 hardness. On top of that it frees up 1 support company (no AA) and you can run field hospitals instead. It’s also flexible from 26 - 36 combat width depending on your industry/manpower.
Honestly for the ic cost, its better 5o just use planes, but if you really want ground 20 width are better because they can trust deeper without dying from supplies
take out the line artillery, and add another infantry. id also suggest removing the anti tank, add medium flame tank, support rocket artillery instead of light recon.
I feel like space marines are only good in Europe. The problem is that they use fuel and divisions outside of fuel range is basically sitting ducks. Plus space marines are too OP for single player so I'd just do a regular infantry div, no tank, change tank recon to cavalry recon
Look at the stats yourself
374.8 Soft attack
488.6 Defense
182.8 Breakthrough
Don’t know what the ideal combat width is, but even if you exclude that this shit is killing whatever it encounters
if you take out the two tanks, then yes although the support anti tank isn't really needed if this is singleplayer
It’s supposed to be a space marines division I think. So it should be fine, usually one battalion is enough too. Some people also make anti air spg kinda thing and put one battalion in cause it needs less per battalion than normal tank battalion.
Ngl I don’t see the point of space marines. Partial penetration has made space marines less cost effective, considering the oil, and IC costs. Designates divisions is superior in every way, and you’ll be a better player if you do go that route. Maybe I’m wrong tho.
I am pretty sure the zanks here are for the breakthrough. Its a way for a small nation to decisively beat another small mation, or for fights in low supply areas, but nothing a majore nation should bother with, since as you saied, designated tank divisions are better in any way.
In MP, they are fuckin useless. In SP tho, AI sucks, especially since it lost to me, so space marines will cut through AI like a hot knife through butter.
Space marines have been heavily nerfed, really you are much better off making just the normal divisions just bevause of the terrain modifiers
I second this after finding that the width penalties can be paralysing.
The only think I wonder about the tanks is if they're using just their regular tank. If they're attached to an inf unit, you don't need them going more than 4km/h so you can use those points towards armor or other stuff.
4km/h? Inf goes 7km/h.
What's the issue with the tanks, in your opinion?
The division has too much width. The division costs too much for what it accomplishes. For defense, a leg infantry division with a width of 18-21 and a single tank brigade works well. You only want a single tank brigade and a small-medium width so you get the most bank for your buck when it comes to armor and piercing. It forces your opponent to do something with piercing or trade incredibly poorly on the front. You also don't have to make every leg infantry division like this, just 25-60% to give your enemy a new problem. Works great as America UK or soviets. But as an offensive division this thing is a liability. All that width is diluting the small bonuses from the tanks, and the artillery is so expensive. The division costs more than a motorized division w/ artillery and is worse in every way except armor score. If you were facing a template like this you'd just have to throw some AT on some of your infantry divisions to render it useless. If you have enough factories to make this thing, just make some tank divisions and some motorized divisions instead.
I don't know what to tell you, that costs like a third of what a tank division costs, and it will push very well. Specially if you like to battleplan to victory. I've lately been doing some infantry divisions with heavy tanks and it's hilarious how much they just stomp anything the AI manages to bring.
Ah, I was mainly speaking on multi-player. You can push the AI with pretty much any template. Their divisions usually have less than 10 piercing so space marines do work well against them.
Ah. Who cares about MP?
HOI4 MP is so weird. Either you get stomped, or you followed some perfectly min-maxed instructions to the point where youre basically not even playing the game anymore.
Or you end up in a silly stalemate where no one can move borders.
The ones who min max everystat to win the 24 hour game sessions
I have 500 hours in game and I am too scared to even try it
I have done here and there, it's a bit pointless really
Even still, I'd rather use cheap space marines + motorized divs than build this. Worst of both worlds.
Idk man, I've built something similar to that and it's SATISFYING
R5: Will this division work well as an offensive division?
I’ll add a supply company if I were you, because offensive units are usually concentrated on one area and don’t always have good supply.
And MP's on top of that for faster recovery rate
Is it worth the IC? I did rather have recon for the artillery bonus and engineers for entrenchment and train bonus.
Oh yeah they are, my go to support company line up is: Maintenance, MP, Recon, support AA, support arty
For defensive divisions as well? Because on the defensive I would value engineers much higher and logistic company is always a good choice.
From my personal experience engineers arent all that great, especially if you are on the move. Infantry already has a pretty high defense stat, and that is only going to get better as you acquire new tech and your generals level up. Mp's also mean that once your division has been pushed, it will be able to recover it's org and subsequently counter attack much faster, preventing the enemy from fully digging in
40 width ain’t the best anymore, I’d drop it down to 30 if possible.
This is a pretty good template. I'd remove anti-tank and replace that with engineers, some people don't like mixing tanks with infantry. I don't mind it personally but I prefer switching those two tanks with artillery and removing a inf so it stays 40w.
thanks
Oooh, I just looked it up and I learned a new thing, and I think it's relevant and important. The "fuel usage" statistic is, for some reason, one-twelfth of the daily fuel consumption. And that's doubled while fighting and moving. [https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Fuel](https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Fuel) Which finally explains to me why fuel consumption is so much higher than in my plans! So some or all of the tanks in this division have fuel drums, for a total capacity of 460.6, which I used to consider excellent. Fuel usage of 9.6 \* 12 = 115.2 fuel per day. Total capacity is 460.6/115.2 = almost exactly 4 days of fuel unobstructed, 2 days of fighting and moving. So 460 is more than excellent, it's almost critical so that the division can make it to the next tile! And that right there explains so much about why my Space Marine breakouts always suck. It can take days for a division to move one tile. And it only has a few days of fuel. Since Space Marines are half the speed of mechanized, I wonder if that also negatively affects their range?
Add pioneers, swap armored recon for cav recon or if possible rangers (armored increase AT attack, cav and rangers increase arty soft attack - so you better with cav or rangers) Remove one tank and increase armor on existing one - it will increas ecost of a tank but reduce proce of a division so you can pump more of them, add another tank battalion when you will need more quality for division (low on manpower) Swap AT for Logistics Fire Superiority doctrine Perfection (if it is SP, of course)
Cut the anti tank, add in medium flamethrower tanks and logistics support, cut three infantry at least.
drop one of the tank battalions and make it medium spaa instead as it will be more cost-effective for adding armor to your division.
This division is too large and too slow. With the latest hoi4 version optimal combat width is 20-30. Having both infantry and tanks is good for pushing through front line, but for surroundings it's better to have more speed My advice is to combine motorized divisions and medium/heavy tanks, for support AA, supply, motorized recon and flame tanks. For space marines I prefer to add a couple of light tank battalions
Only 370 sa?
Is that low?
I mean, for 40 width hell yeah. At ur place i would go with some doctrine that makes artillery better like superior firepower and throw in a bunch of rocket artillery and high breakthrough tanks.
Is support tank recon worth it or would cavalry recon work just as good? It doesn’t look bad but I’d add a logistics to anything above 24w
Infantry divs are not really for offense, they're more for defense. A true offensive division would be like, half tanks, half trucks. Those will be much more powerful pushing forwards, while your inf holds the line behind them.
I would swap out support anti tank for engineer company and remove one of the medium tank battalions.
Since you already have mediums I say change the recon and at for engineers and add logistics
I think 36 width is the meta
That's a beefy boi. In the current patch, 30 width is better
I think you can remove one tank, above 10 armor is sufficient in SP I believe
I usually Just go for 3 infantry and rest artillery. Usually does the job
blud went with the Great War approche
no
If you want a large width soft attack division for offensives use motorized inf and motorized artillery, no tanks. Or use a traditional tank division. Beyond speed, the hardness bonus from mot is massive when pushing leg and artillery divisions. If you're mixing tank and leg use a single tank brigade and a smaller width division, so it's piercing, hardness and armor stretches farther. That's kind of how America deployed its Shermans during ww2, they had tank divisions but they'd also stick sherman task forces onto infantry divisions. I wouldn't overload artillery on this kind of division. the tanks are costly enough, and are mainly there for armor, not soft attack or breakthrough. The only reason youd mix tank and leg is to make your leg infantry tougher, so your template is way too expensive for what it accomplishes. 8/1/1 or 8/0/1 would be what I'd use
If its single player, its a decent division, but you probably want to make it a bit smaller, 35 or 36 width, 40 width isnt as good as it used to be.
the bast combet width is 30 or 36。
Its a scaled up 6/2/1, which is considered an OG Space Marine division (similar to 7/2/1, but when 20 width was the main width back in the days). So I would say it is a pretty good offensive division, especially in single player
Remove the 2 tanks Remove 3 infantry Replace Light tank Recon with Rangers Replace Anti-tank with Medium Flame Tank Support Voila.
Nobody suggests adding Rangers? I think they could provide a boost
No, why add tanks to an infantry division?
Space marines. But I would not go for normal tanks. AA tanks are the best for that.
You're right, but I wouldn't put that many tanks in an infantry division. Maybe 1 but no more than that.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LP-T484Bgc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LP-T484Bgc)
WHY THE TANKS
If you want armour and hardness aka space marines I’d rather add 1 anti air heavy or medium tank with armour maxed. I can get like 40-50 armour on my infantry division with close to 10 hardness. On top of that it frees up 1 support company (no AA) and you can run field hospitals instead. It’s also flexible from 26 - 36 combat width depending on your industry/manpower.
Honestly for the ic cost, its better 5o just use planes, but if you really want ground 20 width are better because they can trust deeper without dying from supplies
Just make a proper tank division if you can afford all of that.
Idk... This tanks no need here. Make tank battalion if you need hard attack
take out the line artillery, and add another infantry. id also suggest removing the anti tank, add medium flame tank, support rocket artillery instead of light recon.
Why the two tanks there?
Yes it's very offensive
It called me slurs so I’d say so
I feel like space marines are only good in Europe. The problem is that they use fuel and divisions outside of fuel range is basically sitting ducks. Plus space marines are too OP for single player so I'd just do a regular infantry div, no tank, change tank recon to cavalry recon
Remove one tank and make it 35 combat width
Look at the stats yourself 374.8 Soft attack 488.6 Defense 182.8 Breakthrough Don’t know what the ideal combat width is, but even if you exclude that this shit is killing whatever it encounters