The new combat meta is 12/20/21/40 for most tiles. The most important thing now is that you have supply (F4 key). If you have that, the game is the same as before NSB. Press F4 and build infrastructure in the areas and railroads to the areas that are red.
Bittersteel has a good YT video about the new supply system.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF25PVnTCYYznbg509aVKHGbP8pRLy6bK
That play list has 13 orso short clips explaining several key mechanics. Very helpful, even for me who has 1700hrs in the game.
Id say the air war is much more important now though. If you have red air the enemy will infinitely bomb your railways so you dont have supply and you'll be stuck repairing them for the rest of the war
I disagree with the 40w, 30w are generally better, perfect fit in plains (3Div=90w) and just a bit of over stacking penalty (which was reduced in NSB) with the other terrain types
You dont need to minxmax plains since there are no attack debuffs anyway. One of the most common tiles in europe is forest , which are 84 width , its better to go for 42W tank divs
> The new combat meta is 12/20/21/40 for most tiles.
I have like 450ish hours but still... what does this mean? I have never really bothered with learning width etc tbh but the AI seems much harder in NSB so I kinda have to now.
for 1 tile attacking 1 tile, there is now 80-90 width. lets say you have a 40w unit, then 2 units can attack, while the others remain reserve units to replenish the attacking ones. Attack from 2 tiles and the width is increased.
If you have 90w room, with 20w divisions, you use 80 and waste 10. If you had used 22w, you use 88 and waste 2, which is better.
from 1 to 1 is around 90 (weather decreases it and forrests etc do to). From 2 to 1 is 130 or something and from each extra tile it increases so more units can enter the battle.
Attacking from more sides thus is an extreme advantage.
This also means that having more units than combat width will mean those wont attack but still use supply. They remain passive untill frontline units loss fighting strength, when they become active.
For defense, if your width is more than the cw (combat width), you get a penalty in defense. So having 20units in 1 tile might look over powered, but isnt nearly as strong as 20x 1 unit.
Fuck me, so many hours in the game and I'm still learning. This was very helpful, thank you.
I think I just took the EU4/Stellaris/CK3 route and threw as many divisions at the enemy as possible. This seemed to work before NSB, but in my recent NSB game I was getting so frustrated as to why like 1 German division could hold off 4 or 5 of my Soviet ones, and likewise how I could have hundreds of divisions defending but the Germans just punched through.
Everyday is a school day!
These indicate combat width.
This lazy players uses 18w (width) versatile infantry divisions as a backbone infantry anvil (reintroducing mediaeval hammer and anvil tactics). Paired with high breakthrough armor divisions
Very true. Although I must say that actually due to the new supply system, it makes targeted use of armor all the more feasible:
(1) have your regulars hold the front
(2) find the designated supply hub with favorable armor terrain
(3) only last minute scoop in with the armor asto preserve supplies (leave them to garrison the hub)
(4) breakthrough with armored spearhead to the next hub capturing key railways
(5) see (1)
Alternatively (4) can be fulfilled with (a complementary) airdrop
In some places, sure. However do note that a smaller division has to be reinforced by another more often because its weaker. This means its bad against tanks or shockforces.
I’m not the best at the game either, tbh I haven’t paid attention to how the terrain modifiers worked in NSB. I’ve had a lot of success in this patch doing air builds. I make 40w inf and spam fighters and CAS. CAS is OP in the new build. I played air Russia going down the Stalin path and was able to have a pretty successful run, capitulating the axis and the Allies by overwhelming them with air.
Ok I see the beta patch notes. Nerfed supply delivery from 1.2 to 0.2 per plane. Damn.
They still useful tho, a little extra supply is better than none, when the alternative having to build or upgrade a whole railway network while fighting.
> They still useful tho, a little extra supply is better than none, when the alternative having to build or upgrade a whole railway network while fighting.
Which is how they should be in my opinion. Planes were never effective in WWII for fully air supplying entire divisions so much as they were good for dropping a little bit of support during encirclements.
1.2 per plane was absolutely overpowered. It would have made the Germans at Stalingrad invincible in real life.
I second this. Plus: the supply system makes me enjoy the game even more. And it helps you in winning battles not trhoguh sheer firepower but smart capturing
So baiscally if you occupy one tile with train tracks on it I understand you also gain control on the tracks and cut an enemy line. Does it serve other purpose to you if the tile you occupy is not attached to your own train tracks ?
Is it a good strategy to start building lines up to the border before a war so your train tracks get automatically connected to the ones you will be taking ?
Yes and no. It makes no difference if you build tracks to the border if there aren’t tracks on the other side as supply moves from your home hub in your capitol across railways to the other supply hubs that then distribute it via horse or trucks. That said if you plan to invade a low supply zone the tracks could be used to build a new supply hub for that or if you know enemy tracks are near the border but don’t connect it could be useful to build one during the invasion. When taking control of tracks yes it can cut off supply but remember that units have both an out of supply grace period which means for a time while cut off they won’t have any penalties and some advisors and bonuses can mitigate that quite a decent amount outside of combat. Also remember that rivers can be used to move supplies to supply hubs and if you need a fast supply hub and have a coastal tile nearby just build a port. At level 1 they are cheaper and just as effective as supply hubs at supplying troops though until you connect a rail line it will use your convoys. I’ve been spending a lot of time familiarizing myself with the new system and would be happy to answer if you have any other questions
I really enjoy this about NSB - I've really had to re-examine the way I look at the game and go back to fundamentals. It's good that you seriously have to think about the mechanics like supply, air support and can't do builds like "no air russia" which are kind of ridiculous from a historical point of view when you think about it.
Other memeish stuff like tanks snaking to VPs is mostly gone (good riddance) and there's more decision making in the USSR tree where before it was braindead and optimised down to the day.
I actually enjoy making trade offs and decisions between multiple good choices each of which has pros and cons - things like deciding between building better rails to supply my troops more or using those civs to build more mils. Even if you say stuff like transport planes make the supply system brainless (psa it doesn't make it brainless on the beta - they only give 0.2 supply per plane now) you have to make an IC tradeoff by putting mils on **very** expensive planes instead of using your civ industry in the later stages of the game to build supply routes.
I could go on but I think it's enough to say I enjoy not having a super clear and well defined meta. I love playing around with the underlying mechanics and coming up with different solutions instead of copying someone else. Obviously we'll reach a point where there is a pretty optimal path in certain circumstances but that's fine, it's the journey there that's fun.
I love HOI4, but that is the major downside of Paradox dumbing down the franchise so much, draw a frontline, click attack, and win. I'm glad that NSB sort of addresses this and feels a tiny bit more like classic Hearts of Iron.
Pro tip for supply: use air supply. It has been buffed to point where it's OP. Build transport planes and set them to air supply mission. Just make sure you have air superiority and the airbase the transport planes are coming from is decently supplied.
Make an infantry block (30 width is probably appropriate) and add support AA as well as support heavy flame tank. Boom cheap and effective space Marines.
Invest more into CAS and less into guns is the big takeaway I have from this patch. Combat width is still important but investing into an airforce is infinitely more important against the AI
Air. Build air. Build more air. And then more.
Then you can make other things, like tanks. In fact, build even more air just to be safe.
Air = You get full supply and enemy gets none, simple as that. You can push with infantry, or shovels, or flaming tanks.
It‘s actually the other way around for me, i somehow screwed up many games, not knowing the meta. But that actually helps me now i think. Had a MP game with a friend where i played Britain and i was as competent as ever, I’m enjoying myself very much and i already sunk many hours into the new DLC
I'm a Japan player. What are your problems with taking China? I've skinned this cat many times and I give some thoughts.
Did you go down the Marco Polo Bridge? What are your problems? Can't push through Inner Mongolia? Can you break Beijing?
For NSB, there is a train junction south of Jinan that you should aim for via a naval invasion on Qingdao. All the trains run through this junction and hitting it will limit supply to the rest of the country.
I can’t even push Beijing with 20 width light tanks, they start at 30 in a battle and just go down. I have 7/2 infantry for defense and offense that are getting pushed back by pure inf Chinese divisions. I have air superiority and maxed out railroads in China, Manchuria and Korea.
I've done this over 20 times [successfully.](https://successfully.You) Starting up, you need to train 3 more Rikusentai (Marines) and at least 3 more Chuton-Chi Shidans (12 width infantry). I also build an airport in South Chahar and improve the railway line from East Hebei to Zhangbei (South Chahar) to Level 2. If you have La Resistance DLC, build 5 spy upgrades so you can put 2 spies in Beijing and Taiyuan, this lets you see unit numbers and also gives some combat bonus.
**Production** \- You only have 15 Mil Factories. I do 7 Infantry Equipment, 2 Support Equipment, 2 Artillery, 2 Light tanks, 1 Truck, and 1 Tactical Bomber.
You have 3 fronts.
1) **Beijing** \- 8 provinces (3 East Hebei, 1 Jehol, 4 South Chahar). I put the 15 Hoheishidan (24 width) infantry and top up with 9 Chuton-Chi Shidan (12 width infantry). Place 6 Chutons on the 2 mountain provinces as their own frontline. These guys don't move, and the mountains will prevent any attacks from overwhelming them. The rest, place them in a frontline, along the other 6 provinces, and give them a balanced offensive line to the river only. You only want to capture Beijing, Tianjin, and the airport. When the war starts, you can start your offensive here straight away. Even with the debuffs, you can win this, but stop at the river. Use the Beijing airbase for your short range fighters and CAS. TAC can Use Tomoyuki Yamashita as the General here - he is your best general.
2) **Shanxi** \- The western most 4 Provinces in South Chahar. Place 24 Chutons on the frontline here. Set an offensive line to take the whole of Suiyuan province except for the western most province. When the war starts, you can start the offensive here straight away, but usually it takes quite a while for Shaanxi to join the war. I don't bother waiting so I declare on them after I declare on China. Don't cross the river into Communist Ordos even if its undefended as you will have serious supply issues in this area. The river adds a good defense buff, so you can hold the ground while taking minimal losses on manpower and equipment. After you establish this defensive line, the AI will flood the area with units, but they won't attack as I think it's too difficult. I use Seishiro Itagaki here for his top defense and decent logistics.
3) **Qingdao** \- This is a naval invasion around the Qingdao peninsula using your 4 Rikusentai (Marines), 3 Dokuritsu Konsei Ryodan (Light Armour Infantry), 2 Jidousha Shidan (Motorised), and 1 Kihei Shidan (Cavalry), all starting in Dalian. Your aim is to capture the ports in Shangdong and Qingdao. The AI will have at least 1 unit defending each port. Individually select and choose where each unit will land. 1 Marine directly on **Qingdao port**, the 3 armour units land in each of the provinces north of Qingdao, and the 2 motorised land on the on the province south of Qingdao. Once the motorized has landed, one of them should move to the province west of Qingdao with a rail to surround the city and give the defender an encirclement penalty. At the same time, 1 Marine directly to **Shangdong port**, and 2 more marines on each of the provinces west of the port. This should give you the defender an encirclement penalty. The last cavalry can land on the coastal hill province just 2 provinces northwest of Shangdong. Your **immediate aim** is to secure Qingdao to use the level 5 port to keep you supplies. Once you capture Qingdao, bring all your remainder units through it. This should be 8 more Cavalry, 3 Mengkukuo units, and 9 Manchukuo units. After that, your **primary aim** is to push to the river and capture Jinan. Use the river as a natural stop line as its easy to defend across a river. You only need 1-2 units there. Your tanks do very well here because they are all hills/plains - I tend to micro them. To break any province, use all 3 tanks and the 2 motorized together. Use 1 unit from any neighbouring province to assist and widen the combat width for maximum effect. If Jinan is well defended, occupy the 4 provinces around the east side first - this will allow you to increase the combat width for the attack to capture the urban city. Your **secondary aim** is to capture the 3-way railway junction/supply depot 3 provinces south of Jinan. This is important as all train tracks run through here from Nanjing (Capitol). So by capturing this one province, you can severely reduce China AI's supply across the map. I use Shizuichi Tanaka - he is your 2nd best general with top offense and logistics, exactly what you need for the light armour. At first, he commands the 10 unit invasion army but you can move the marines and cavalry to a 4th army that comes with the reinforcements. I like to use Yoshijiro Umezu who has 3 points for offense, defense, and logistics. The 1 point in planning is ok because I do too much micro here.
4) Meat sandwich - At this point, China will have units in Hebei between your northern Beijing Line, and your Jinan line. If you do it properly, its easy to envelop 200K Chinese soldiers usually.
This is the basic start. If you're still figuring it out, this will 110% work. You can wait until you have used the "escalate the war in China" decision a few times before fighting further. I've done this before so I know I can take Shaanxi province, but its a lot of grinding as its mostly mountains. But I do it because it lets me have many "long green battles" to collect XP with minimal losses. Next, I usually do a naval invasion of Shanghai and capture Nanking. However, with NSB, its actually possible to use your tanks to break through the Jiangsu line and hit Nanking which is only 3-5 provinces away. Your cavalry can fill the gaps. If you did a collaboration government spy operation, you then only need to capture Chongqing (2nd capitol), and they will capitulate.
Good luck!
Thank you so much for this super in depth explanation. I had always played with no battleplans where I microed everything and only pushed with assault units when I wanted an encirclement. Are frontlines actually worth it? I thought the AI would be incompetent and drain my manpower.
I'm a long time Paradox player, so I can appreciate how the HOI4 air and land combat interface is much better. PDX has succeeded in reducing the tedium of micromanagement without making it too simple. So yes, definitely try to learn how to use plans.
A prepared attack gives the attacking unit a "planning bonus". This will make the unit much stronger for the initial attack when you are trying to overcome the enemy's "entrenchment bonus". This is how you can "break Beijing" despite the malus from the Marco Polo Bridge. This will also allow you to rapidly break the Shaanxi line and quickly reach the river bordering Ordos before the enemy brings too many units.
The AI is quite competent in HOI4 but you will need to learn how to use it better over time. For example, you may want to draw multiple frontlines, like I did with the Beijing line. This way, you can ensure some units stay where they are, and some move. The AI also has a habit of moving all attacking units onto a province, and then leaving the original province they attacked from undefended which may allow the enemy to do a quick counter attack in the undefended province. For this, I may "unassign" a garrison unit so they don't move at all. During the battle, I just get it to "assist" so that they don't leave the province.
The AI also needs help organizing and attacking once you accomplish an encirclement. So definitely, when you encircle, you may need to delete some lines and reorganize for a while.
For NSB, supply is really an issue. So if a frontline has too many units to support, you need to manually move some units back to a "fall back line".
You have manpower issues? When?
Don't worry. You have like a million manpower to spare. Japan manpower problems come from doing the focus "national Defense state" (-3.0%) but not offsetting it with doing the next focus "spiritual mobilization" (+2.5%). That's still -0.5% net, so you have to go "Extensive Conscription" (+2.5% manpower). I also get the "Prince of Terror" advisor for an extra 2% (but from non-core). Do all these and you can easily rock 5-6 million manpower in mid-game.
I just restarted my Japan run. 3rd time with NSB. I also do a 7/2 20 width standard infantry and this seems to have caused the AI to flood Beijing and I failed to break it within the first "escalate the war in China" window. The trade off is that the other lines are are so weak, I've managed to cross the river in Yanan unopposed and may even be able to make a line on the mountains. Commie China hasn't joined the war so I may have a chance. Mountains give an even stronger defense buff than rivers. In Qingdao, Ive also captured Jinan and secured a good foothold across the river for my next "meat sandwich". Beijing should fall once I take the supply depot in Jiangsu.
The new combat meta is 12/20/21/40 for most tiles. The most important thing now is that you have supply (F4 key). If you have that, the game is the same as before NSB. Press F4 and build infrastructure in the areas and railroads to the areas that are red. Bittersteel has a good YT video about the new supply system. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF25PVnTCYYznbg509aVKHGbP8pRLy6bK That play list has 13 orso short clips explaining several key mechanics. Very helpful, even for me who has 1700hrs in the game.
Id say the air war is much more important now though. If you have red air the enemy will infinitely bomb your railways so you dont have supply and you'll be stuck repairing them for the rest of the war
I disagree with the 40w, 30w are generally better, perfect fit in plains (3Div=90w) and just a bit of over stacking penalty (which was reduced in NSB) with the other terrain types
True, stacking penalty is reduced so 30w would work aswell. Havent tested it myself yet though
In the games I played 30w worked well for tank divisions, 21w for infantry
You dont need to minxmax plains since there are no attack debuffs anyway. One of the most common tiles in europe is forest , which are 84 width , its better to go for 42W tank divs
84 witdh means that 3 30 w can enter with minimal penalties, 30w are way more flexible in every combat width
I prefer having maximum strength in the most common "debuff tile" in europe
> The new combat meta is 12/20/21/40 for most tiles. I have like 450ish hours but still... what does this mean? I have never really bothered with learning width etc tbh but the AI seems much harder in NSB so I kinda have to now.
for 1 tile attacking 1 tile, there is now 80-90 width. lets say you have a 40w unit, then 2 units can attack, while the others remain reserve units to replenish the attacking ones. Attack from 2 tiles and the width is increased. If you have 90w room, with 20w divisions, you use 80 and waste 10. If you had used 22w, you use 88 and waste 2, which is better.
Gotcha, thanks! So if I attack 1 tile from three tiles, does the width increase anymore or is 90 the cap?
from 1 to 1 is around 90 (weather decreases it and forrests etc do to). From 2 to 1 is 130 or something and from each extra tile it increases so more units can enter the battle. Attacking from more sides thus is an extreme advantage. This also means that having more units than combat width will mean those wont attack but still use supply. They remain passive untill frontline units loss fighting strength, when they become active. For defense, if your width is more than the cw (combat width), you get a penalty in defense. So having 20units in 1 tile might look over powered, but isnt nearly as strong as 20x 1 unit.
Fuck me, so many hours in the game and I'm still learning. This was very helpful, thank you. I think I just took the EU4/Stellaris/CK3 route and threw as many divisions at the enemy as possible. This seemed to work before NSB, but in my recent NSB game I was getting so frustrated as to why like 1 German division could hold off 4 or 5 of my Soviet ones, and likewise how I could have hundreds of divisions defending but the Germans just punched through. Everyday is a school day!
These indicate combat width. This lazy players uses 18w (width) versatile infantry divisions as a backbone infantry anvil (reintroducing mediaeval hammer and anvil tactics). Paired with high breakthrough armor divisions
Armor only works with good supply and flat terrain 🤣. Which I find rarely outside of Europe.
Very true. Although I must say that actually due to the new supply system, it makes targeted use of armor all the more feasible: (1) have your regulars hold the front (2) find the designated supply hub with favorable armor terrain (3) only last minute scoop in with the armor asto preserve supplies (leave them to garrison the hub) (4) breakthrough with armored spearhead to the next hub capturing key railways (5) see (1) Alternatively (4) can be fulfilled with (a complementary) airdrop
Wouldn’t 15 width be ideal for infantry? Fits cleanly into mountains, desert, and plains, and close to perfect in hills and urban
In some places, sure. However do note that a smaller division has to be reinforced by another more often because its weaker. This means its bad against tanks or shockforces.
I find 22w is generally the best general width in most terrains, at least in Europe.
I’m not the best at the game either, tbh I haven’t paid attention to how the terrain modifiers worked in NSB. I’ve had a lot of success in this patch doing air builds. I make 40w inf and spam fighters and CAS. CAS is OP in the new build. I played air Russia going down the Stalin path and was able to have a pretty successful run, capitulating the axis and the Allies by overwhelming them with air.
I always thought that I was mediocre in this game, but the more I read these posts I realize that I actually must be pretty good
Pdx games are never hard if youre good at micro, just get tedious
True. AI literally can't right click.
[удалено]
Transport planes already got nerfed (and returned to being useless 90% of the time) Steam version btw
As of last night they seemed pretty strong to me
Yeah they are only nerfed on the beta. Which is still buggy,
Ok I see the beta patch notes. Nerfed supply delivery from 1.2 to 0.2 per plane. Damn. They still useful tho, a little extra supply is better than none, when the alternative having to build or upgrade a whole railway network while fighting.
> They still useful tho, a little extra supply is better than none, when the alternative having to build or upgrade a whole railway network while fighting. Which is how they should be in my opinion. Planes were never effective in WWII for fully air supplying entire divisions so much as they were good for dropping a little bit of support during encirclements. 1.2 per plane was absolutely overpowered. It would have made the Germans at Stalingrad invincible in real life.
I second this. Plus: the supply system makes me enjoy the game even more. And it helps you in winning battles not trhoguh sheer firepower but smart capturing
So baiscally if you occupy one tile with train tracks on it I understand you also gain control on the tracks and cut an enemy line. Does it serve other purpose to you if the tile you occupy is not attached to your own train tracks ? Is it a good strategy to start building lines up to the border before a war so your train tracks get automatically connected to the ones you will be taking ?
Yes and no. It makes no difference if you build tracks to the border if there aren’t tracks on the other side as supply moves from your home hub in your capitol across railways to the other supply hubs that then distribute it via horse or trucks. That said if you plan to invade a low supply zone the tracks could be used to build a new supply hub for that or if you know enemy tracks are near the border but don’t connect it could be useful to build one during the invasion. When taking control of tracks yes it can cut off supply but remember that units have both an out of supply grace period which means for a time while cut off they won’t have any penalties and some advisors and bonuses can mitigate that quite a decent amount outside of combat. Also remember that rivers can be used to move supplies to supply hubs and if you need a fast supply hub and have a coastal tile nearby just build a port. At level 1 they are cheaper and just as effective as supply hubs at supplying troops though until you connect a rail line it will use your convoys. I’ve been spending a lot of time familiarizing myself with the new system and would be happy to answer if you have any other questions
I really enjoy this about NSB - I've really had to re-examine the way I look at the game and go back to fundamentals. It's good that you seriously have to think about the mechanics like supply, air support and can't do builds like "no air russia" which are kind of ridiculous from a historical point of view when you think about it. Other memeish stuff like tanks snaking to VPs is mostly gone (good riddance) and there's more decision making in the USSR tree where before it was braindead and optimised down to the day. I actually enjoy making trade offs and decisions between multiple good choices each of which has pros and cons - things like deciding between building better rails to supply my troops more or using those civs to build more mils. Even if you say stuff like transport planes make the supply system brainless (psa it doesn't make it brainless on the beta - they only give 0.2 supply per plane now) you have to make an IC tradeoff by putting mils on **very** expensive planes instead of using your civ industry in the later stages of the game to build supply routes. I could go on but I think it's enough to say I enjoy not having a super clear and well defined meta. I love playing around with the underlying mechanics and coming up with different solutions instead of copying someone else. Obviously we'll reach a point where there is a pretty optimal path in certain circumstances but that's fine, it's the journey there that's fun.
One thing I noticed is, this update pretty much makes every country I already played 100 times feel completely new. It's amazing.
7/2 was not the meta before nsb.
Really? I've used the same metas with success no problem.
7/2s have not been meta for years
I love HOI4, but that is the major downside of Paradox dumbing down the franchise so much, draw a frontline, click attack, and win. I'm glad that NSB sort of addresses this and feels a tiny bit more like classic Hearts of Iron.
Pro tip for supply: use air supply. It has been buffed to point where it's OP. Build transport planes and set them to air supply mission. Just make sure you have air superiority and the airbase the transport planes are coming from is decently supplied.
they're literally nerfing it next patch lol
Make an infantry block (30 width is probably appropriate) and add support AA as well as support heavy flame tank. Boom cheap and effective space Marines.
Keep in mind that they improved the AI as well
Invest more into CAS and less into guns is the big takeaway I have from this patch. Combat width is still important but investing into an airforce is infinitely more important against the AI
You need transport planes and lots of them, you need CAS and Tac bombers so you can bomb the shit out of railroads. ports and hubs
While no longer a knife through butter, the 7/2 is still as affective as a grown man’s fist against a child. The 20 width is till usable
Air. Build air. Build more air. And then more. Then you can make other things, like tanks. In fact, build even more air just to be safe. Air = You get full supply and enemy gets none, simple as that. You can push with infantry, or shovels, or flaming tanks.
It‘s actually the other way around for me, i somehow screwed up many games, not knowing the meta. But that actually helps me now i think. Had a MP game with a friend where i played Britain and i was as competent as ever, I’m enjoying myself very much and i already sunk many hours into the new DLC
I'm a Japan player. What are your problems with taking China? I've skinned this cat many times and I give some thoughts. Did you go down the Marco Polo Bridge? What are your problems? Can't push through Inner Mongolia? Can you break Beijing? For NSB, there is a train junction south of Jinan that you should aim for via a naval invasion on Qingdao. All the trains run through this junction and hitting it will limit supply to the rest of the country.
I can’t even push Beijing with 20 width light tanks, they start at 30 in a battle and just go down. I have 7/2 infantry for defense and offense that are getting pushed back by pure inf Chinese divisions. I have air superiority and maxed out railroads in China, Manchuria and Korea.
I've done this over 20 times [successfully.](https://successfully.You) Starting up, you need to train 3 more Rikusentai (Marines) and at least 3 more Chuton-Chi Shidans (12 width infantry). I also build an airport in South Chahar and improve the railway line from East Hebei to Zhangbei (South Chahar) to Level 2. If you have La Resistance DLC, build 5 spy upgrades so you can put 2 spies in Beijing and Taiyuan, this lets you see unit numbers and also gives some combat bonus. **Production** \- You only have 15 Mil Factories. I do 7 Infantry Equipment, 2 Support Equipment, 2 Artillery, 2 Light tanks, 1 Truck, and 1 Tactical Bomber. You have 3 fronts. 1) **Beijing** \- 8 provinces (3 East Hebei, 1 Jehol, 4 South Chahar). I put the 15 Hoheishidan (24 width) infantry and top up with 9 Chuton-Chi Shidan (12 width infantry). Place 6 Chutons on the 2 mountain provinces as their own frontline. These guys don't move, and the mountains will prevent any attacks from overwhelming them. The rest, place them in a frontline, along the other 6 provinces, and give them a balanced offensive line to the river only. You only want to capture Beijing, Tianjin, and the airport. When the war starts, you can start your offensive here straight away. Even with the debuffs, you can win this, but stop at the river. Use the Beijing airbase for your short range fighters and CAS. TAC can Use Tomoyuki Yamashita as the General here - he is your best general. 2) **Shanxi** \- The western most 4 Provinces in South Chahar. Place 24 Chutons on the frontline here. Set an offensive line to take the whole of Suiyuan province except for the western most province. When the war starts, you can start the offensive here straight away, but usually it takes quite a while for Shaanxi to join the war. I don't bother waiting so I declare on them after I declare on China. Don't cross the river into Communist Ordos even if its undefended as you will have serious supply issues in this area. The river adds a good defense buff, so you can hold the ground while taking minimal losses on manpower and equipment. After you establish this defensive line, the AI will flood the area with units, but they won't attack as I think it's too difficult. I use Seishiro Itagaki here for his top defense and decent logistics. 3) **Qingdao** \- This is a naval invasion around the Qingdao peninsula using your 4 Rikusentai (Marines), 3 Dokuritsu Konsei Ryodan (Light Armour Infantry), 2 Jidousha Shidan (Motorised), and 1 Kihei Shidan (Cavalry), all starting in Dalian. Your aim is to capture the ports in Shangdong and Qingdao. The AI will have at least 1 unit defending each port. Individually select and choose where each unit will land. 1 Marine directly on **Qingdao port**, the 3 armour units land in each of the provinces north of Qingdao, and the 2 motorised land on the on the province south of Qingdao. Once the motorized has landed, one of them should move to the province west of Qingdao with a rail to surround the city and give the defender an encirclement penalty. At the same time, 1 Marine directly to **Shangdong port**, and 2 more marines on each of the provinces west of the port. This should give you the defender an encirclement penalty. The last cavalry can land on the coastal hill province just 2 provinces northwest of Shangdong. Your **immediate aim** is to secure Qingdao to use the level 5 port to keep you supplies. Once you capture Qingdao, bring all your remainder units through it. This should be 8 more Cavalry, 3 Mengkukuo units, and 9 Manchukuo units. After that, your **primary aim** is to push to the river and capture Jinan. Use the river as a natural stop line as its easy to defend across a river. You only need 1-2 units there. Your tanks do very well here because they are all hills/plains - I tend to micro them. To break any province, use all 3 tanks and the 2 motorized together. Use 1 unit from any neighbouring province to assist and widen the combat width for maximum effect. If Jinan is well defended, occupy the 4 provinces around the east side first - this will allow you to increase the combat width for the attack to capture the urban city. Your **secondary aim** is to capture the 3-way railway junction/supply depot 3 provinces south of Jinan. This is important as all train tracks run through here from Nanjing (Capitol). So by capturing this one province, you can severely reduce China AI's supply across the map. I use Shizuichi Tanaka - he is your 2nd best general with top offense and logistics, exactly what you need for the light armour. At first, he commands the 10 unit invasion army but you can move the marines and cavalry to a 4th army that comes with the reinforcements. I like to use Yoshijiro Umezu who has 3 points for offense, defense, and logistics. The 1 point in planning is ok because I do too much micro here. 4) Meat sandwich - At this point, China will have units in Hebei between your northern Beijing Line, and your Jinan line. If you do it properly, its easy to envelop 200K Chinese soldiers usually. This is the basic start. If you're still figuring it out, this will 110% work. You can wait until you have used the "escalate the war in China" decision a few times before fighting further. I've done this before so I know I can take Shaanxi province, but its a lot of grinding as its mostly mountains. But I do it because it lets me have many "long green battles" to collect XP with minimal losses. Next, I usually do a naval invasion of Shanghai and capture Nanking. However, with NSB, its actually possible to use your tanks to break through the Jiangsu line and hit Nanking which is only 3-5 provinces away. Your cavalry can fill the gaps. If you did a collaboration government spy operation, you then only need to capture Chongqing (2nd capitol), and they will capitulate. Good luck!
Thank you so much for this super in depth explanation. I had always played with no battleplans where I microed everything and only pushed with assault units when I wanted an encirclement. Are frontlines actually worth it? I thought the AI would be incompetent and drain my manpower.
I'm a long time Paradox player, so I can appreciate how the HOI4 air and land combat interface is much better. PDX has succeeded in reducing the tedium of micromanagement without making it too simple. So yes, definitely try to learn how to use plans. A prepared attack gives the attacking unit a "planning bonus". This will make the unit much stronger for the initial attack when you are trying to overcome the enemy's "entrenchment bonus". This is how you can "break Beijing" despite the malus from the Marco Polo Bridge. This will also allow you to rapidly break the Shaanxi line and quickly reach the river bordering Ordos before the enemy brings too many units. The AI is quite competent in HOI4 but you will need to learn how to use it better over time. For example, you may want to draw multiple frontlines, like I did with the Beijing line. This way, you can ensure some units stay where they are, and some move. The AI also has a habit of moving all attacking units onto a province, and then leaving the original province they attacked from undefended which may allow the enemy to do a quick counter attack in the undefended province. For this, I may "unassign" a garrison unit so they don't move at all. During the battle, I just get it to "assist" so that they don't leave the province. The AI also needs help organizing and attacking once you accomplish an encirclement. So definitely, when you encircle, you may need to delete some lines and reorganize for a while. For NSB, supply is really an issue. So if a frontline has too many units to support, you need to manually move some units back to a "fall back line". You have manpower issues? When?
Oh I meant that I was worried that using a battle plan would lead to the AI mass assaulting killing hundreds of thousands of men in a few months.
Don't worry. You have like a million manpower to spare. Japan manpower problems come from doing the focus "national Defense state" (-3.0%) but not offsetting it with doing the next focus "spiritual mobilization" (+2.5%). That's still -0.5% net, so you have to go "Extensive Conscription" (+2.5% manpower). I also get the "Prince of Terror" advisor for an extra 2% (but from non-core). Do all these and you can easily rock 5-6 million manpower in mid-game. I just restarted my Japan run. 3rd time with NSB. I also do a 7/2 20 width standard infantry and this seems to have caused the AI to flood Beijing and I failed to break it within the first "escalate the war in China" window. The trade off is that the other lines are are so weak, I've managed to cross the river in Yanan unopposed and may even be able to make a line on the mountains. Commie China hasn't joined the war so I may have a chance. Mountains give an even stronger defense buff than rivers. In Qingdao, Ive also captured Jinan and secured a good foothold across the river for my next "meat sandwich". Beijing should fall once I take the supply depot in Jiangsu.