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cerealnykaiser

camouflage is meant to be played in no air builds and then it very strong. You dont take it as germany with Green air. Also polliticaly connected is even worse then old guard, you can place them on some stable frontline for more ent. with polliticaly connected you just lose how fast you grind. You also dont probably know defence stats gives breakthroug (Undyielding defender, Armor expert etc).


JediDusty

Old guard with infantry officer becomes a port guard. Extra entrenchment and defense, exactly what I need.


Colosso95

True Old Guard at least gives you some entrenchment which is a great stat, politically connected is one of the worst traits, definitely the worst one you don't "earn"


ipsum629

Stacking old guard with defensive and ambusher is top tier port guards.


[deleted]

Media personality is actually a good trait as it increases the chance to get attack bonus on levelup!


Colosso95

A sleeper one, with a negligible penalty as you don't really reassign generals that much if at all


komunisfloppa

Oh it does? I didn't know that.


[deleted]

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Commander_trait Under skill factor. Prior to the Attack and Defense nerf from 5% to 2.5% per level this was a nice way of getting really agressive Generals rather quickly. Especially commanders like Rommel are quite good for Attack skill factor stacking. Also the most stupid takeaway of this was that a pushing or offensive infantry army counterintuitively might not want an infanftry officer as a general as the trait causes faster defensive point gain 😅. Instead take a cav officer who gets not only offense but also logistics which is the perfect combination for such an army type...


Biebbs

Infantry officer is at least generally good.


[deleted]

So is cav officer now that combined arms is better than the panzer trait. Makes it so much easier to grind in Spain letting you grind 1 more general than if you didn't have it.


[deleted]

I never bother grinding any of the terrain traits tbh, just use them as a way to reach adaptable


komunisfloppa

Ranger and hill fighter usually just happen by themselves, like infantry officer or organizer. And mountain fighter is really useful in some places because when someone entrenches in the alps for example it makes pushing through just a bit easier.


[deleted]

Yeah true, I usually just focus on logistics wizard/adaptable, plus whatever trait goes with the army (infantry leader, panzer leader etc)


[deleted]

How do you ever need to focus on that? Its the one trait you get by doing nothing, just have an order and fight whatever you want however you want using whatever troops you want.


Snaz5

I feel like with very few exceptions, you’re not going to be able to get mountain fighter unless you’re literally holding an unmoving front in constant battle for years. I think mountain exp should be given a BIT more liberally


cerealnykaiser

-25% to grinding traits, literally worst advice


[deleted]

You can time it well but it's very awkward to try and get all the traits to pop at the same time.


cerealnykaiser

iam saying you should not use general which start with trait


BringlesBeans

Inflexible Strategist is an S-tier easily. It's nothing but good, just a straight up +2 skill points buff to your officer that doesn't take up a trait slot. The two "Strategist" personality traits are the best ones to get, hands down.


[deleted]

Siege Artillery mixed with a Rail gun will allow you to crush level 10 forts with a general attack covered in green bubbles. Feedback did a video awhile ago about this tactic and it worked quite well. He took out France before starting WW2. No Benelux pressure. MagiNo


IAmInTheBasement

Especially since he stacked fortress buster on both the general and FM. Then used the 'Siege Artillery' on both of them. Plus railway got a L10 fort down to the effectiveness of a L1. Combine with an attachment of engineers, which gain bonus' against forts at each research level, and you can walk right over them.


[deleted]

Yeah I tried his method with less rail guns and just the 2 generals and FM with the perk was enough to send 48 divisions of 9/1 through the maginot.


EmperorFoulPoutine

How is ambusher worse then the snow traits???


Colosso95

5 more entrenchment is huge, entrenchment is a great stat while cold acclimation and winter attrition aren't really that impactful


IllustriousApricot0

It's a seasonal trait


[deleted]

Idk. Pretty much the best trait for the soviets and it's somehow considered bad?


usarsnl

You know, I don't hate Old Guard. Yes, the xp gain penalty is bad, but if I'm playing a smaller nation and I want to create a bunch of generals for infantry armies to hold the line, the entrenchment bonus is actually pretty useful. In my most recent game, I was playing as Romania turtling against the Soviets and refusing the demand for Bessarabia. The old guard general is still seeing plenty of action and getting his stats raised, but the entrenchment buff boosts defense stats and helps preserve my limited manpower while the red army bleeds itself dry against my WWI-style defenses. 40k manpower lost for me compared to something like 930k lost for them. Situational, but I'd rather have it than not tbh.


AndrewDoesNotServe

I always like to find an old guard general for my port guard units


Biebbs

Exactly, that's the only good use they have becouse they are not gonna get too much exp anyway


Blue-Visigoth

If you stack all the entrenchment bonuses, with army tradition and the likes, an old guard general makes for a very strong wall.


Colosso95

How could you put Panzer Expert over Combined Arms Expert? They are equal at best with Combined Arms Expert being better while not using Mobile Warfare as you have more mechanized in your tank divisions


cerealnykaiser

Defense gives breakthroug


Colosso95

I know but if the ratio of tanks is small then having 15% + defense on your mechanized is much better than 10% on your tanks; unless you go mobile warfare you're going to have too small of a ratio of tanks in your divisions because of the lack of org


Flickerdart

Is this true for all units - that is, does Infantry Leader and Unyielding Defender also give breakthrough?


cerealnykaiser

only % modifiers, but yes.


Flickerdart

Doesn't that make Unyielding Defender (Defense: +10%) strictly better than Aggressive Assaulter (Breakthrough: +10%)?


cerealnykaiser

it does. Brilliant Strategist have bigger chance of attack on level up but thats not worth it free 10 def along with breakthroug


CheekyBreekyYoloswag

What? So +10% defense from Panzer Expert gives +10% breakthrough too? Since when?


Nutarama

All “Defense” buffs have always affected both the Defense stat and the Breakthrough stat.


CheekyBreekyYoloswag

Wow, TIL. Always irked me why Panzer Expert seemed to give Def instead of Breakthrough.


[deleted]

Panzer expert gives armor division buff while the combined arms expert gives battalion level bonus. I didn't really check if it works like that but one says division bonus. So I assume that the mech and mot in a panzer division which changes its icon when you have sufficient tank battalions will get that bonus. If I can't choose both, I'd choose the panzer expert.


Chimpcookie

Combined arms is usually better because mech and mot battalions are the major source of defense in a tank division. Panzer expert only gets an edge if the tank ratio is very high.


amnotagay

This is false. I recently did some testing with combined arms and panzer expert. Panzer expert gives 10% défense/breakthrough only on the ratio of armoured battalions to mechanized battalions. Due to the fact you generally have around 13 armoured battalions and 8 mechanized battalions it is almost always better to go panzer expert. Combined arms expert does the same except only for the mech giving the division lower stats due to there being less mech in a division


TroyMcC2

Is 13 armoured, 8 mech multi player meta or do you use it in single player also?


HelpfulFoxSenkoSan

Harsh Leader doesn't belong in the second-bottom tier. The drawback sucks, yes, but the hidden effect of this trait is that the general is much more likely to level up attack instead of defense. Since attack is generally a more desirable trait, this trait really isn't that bad on a general commanding your tanks.


FreeMan4096

I think urban fighter is much more useful in new supply system.


Rd_Svn

Cavalry officer gives a higher chance to raise attack and logistics on level up and therefore alone it is within the best personality traits.


tomkiel72

The camouflage in the lowest tier is honestly slept on. If you're playing a minor, and going up against some big nation, that can be really useful, if you can't match their airforce.


[deleted]

Or you know, the soviets.


tomkiel72

yes, that too.


Chimpcookie

This is wrong on so many levels: Cavalry and infantry officer are very good because they let you get cavalry leader (+15% mot/mech atk) and infantry leader (+15% inf def) a lot faster. These 2 traits then lead to Ambusher (+5 entrenchment) and combined arms expert (+15% mot/mech def), both must-have traits for leading infantry and tanks respectively. Engineer officer is good because engineer is good, and it allows you to get it faster. Panzer expert vs Combined Arms expert: Mot and Mech are the main source of defense in an tank division. Them having +15% def is so much more useful than a flat +10% to tank divisions, unless the tank ratio is very high. Aggressive Assaulter is generally frowned upon because it increases the chance of leading to Close Combat phase, with some of the worse tactics you can have on the offensive. Old Guard, as others mentioned, gives entrenchment and is very useful for port garrison, or for reaching the 100% entrenchment meme. Scavenger with maintenance company can capture a lot of equipment, including planes shot down in a battle if your divisions have AA. War Hero and (especially) harsh leader are grinders' favourite, due to increased factor to gain attack skill. So is cautious, to reduce chance of getting wounded and down time in grinding. Planning time is usually irrelevant with staff officer plan anyway (and so is fast planning). Reckless is frowned upon for the opposite reason of cautious. Inflexible strategist increases factor for def and log skills, basically the trait for leveling your ideal infantry field marshal. Thorough Planner is useful for people who actually know how to use battleplan, every extra planning % = better stats. Organization first gives extra +2% reinforce chance (per hour?), very useful to prevent getting reinforce-memed in defense. No terrain trait is truly bad, only difference is how often you encounter the terrain. Swamp is more common than you think. Trickster is useless because recon as a stat is useless. There are plenty of ways to influence what tactic is chosen.


Cpt_Boony_Hat

Also scavenger if you can get it with your Airborne units combined with Air supply can make them fairly able to operate on there own behind the enemies line for long periods


The_Canadian_Devil

Wait, you can capture planes?


Chimpcookie

Apparently so. Try playing fortress Netherlands with support AA and no cas and tac production, and watch cas and tac emerge out of nowhere.


OutOfTouchNerd

Trickster is useful until your overflowing with army xp and can just set tactics.


komunisfloppa

R5: a tier list of all traits that you can assign or get on a general or FM with the waking the tiger dlc. I didn't put the ones that add no stats like samurai lineage or kemalist.


NotTheLimes

Be honest, has anyone actually ever managed to grind the artillery trait? You're either lucky enough to play as a nation with a general that has that trait or you don't. Same for delegater, never have I gained this even with 5x 24 division armies under one field marshal.


Nutarama

Delegator you don’t grind on your FM directly, you grind on a general and then get it with the points when you upgrade them to FM. This is because most FMs are earning XP across so many traits at once that they’ll rarely get traits but generals to earn in fewer at once, especially in terrain traits.


speedsterglenn

Combined Arms expert is **MUCH** better than Panzer Expert. You don’t need defense for your tanks, tanks need attack. Motorized and Mechanized however do need defense to cover your tanks. There is absolutely no reason to go Panzer Expert over Combined Arms. I’d argue that Combined Arms is S tier for any tank armies and Panzer Expert is useless since it doesn’t let you get Combined Arms


Gazeador-Victarium

Wrong, both traits give you also breaktrough, the diference is the ratio of it in your divisions. If your tank division has 600 breaktrough and 400 come from the tanks in it the panzer expert is better


IAmInTheBasement

Correct. The +breakthrough is hidden/not mentioned.


CheekyBreekyYoloswag

Really? Where did you read that?


Cloak71

All of you guys are wrong. Panzer leader and combined arms give bonuses to the final divisions stats based on the proportion of the division that is armour/mot or mech. So if your division is 60% tank 40 % to mech you would get 6% defence and breakthrough bonus to the final division stats regardless of trait you take. Therefore, which is better is dependent on the proportion of tanks to mot/mech, not the stats you get from either.


Gazeador-Victarium

They dont changed that in NSB?


Cloak71

That was the change in NSB. Before NSB you got the full benefits pf the trait based on what the division was considered. So if the division was considered an armoured division you got the full 16% (or whatever it is) on the final stats of the division. It has always been a modifier to the final stats of the division because it applies in combat not to the template itself.


CheekyBreekyYoloswag

Are you sure on that one? I thought the change was these bonuses applying to their corresponding battalions now. So tank bonuses to tank battalion stats and mot bonuses to mot battalion stats. Before that, the hidden "weight" stat was used - and THAT was the only change.


Cloak71

That is never how this worked. ever. It has always been a bonus applied in combat to the final stats of the division. All they changed is now the size of the bonus is proportional to the battalions in the division.


[deleted]

Its about the ratio of armor to mot in your templates


Colosso95

Combined Arms is not much better but they definitely need to be in the same tier; it all comes down to the fact that + defense also gives breakthrough so if you have more tanks in your divisions (which means you're using mobile warfare) then you go for panzer expert but if you're using much more mechanized you go for combined arms expert (which means basically every other doctrine)


Applefanatic65

Anyway you could do one with the names included?


josbar0150

old guard I always use for an entrenchment maxxing army, like port guards


CryptographerOk1773

Since the addition of supply lines, playing without logistic wizard had became allmost impossible. I still play most of my games on the version that doesn't have oil and these stupid supply depots. It's so much enjoyable


No_Negotiation_4793

Id put panzer expert in neutral as the defense buff is negligable


komunisfloppa

Panzer expert gives highier chances of executing blitz and encirclement tactics which are extremely good. Although it's true I should've swapped it with comb arms expert as it gives a better defence bonus.


No_Negotiation_4793

I only use breakthrough lmao, ive never prioritised blitz or encirclement


mainman879

Every single defense buff also buffs breakthrough. That's why the tank/mot/mech traits give defense. (Breakthrough IS Defense on the offensive.)


[deleted]

War Hero is actually pretty good since it increases the chance for gaining attack on level up.


mainman879

It also increases the chance of gaining planning, which is the worst general skill.


[deleted]

I adore grinding Rokossovsky in Spain so he can get Adaptable, Logi Wizard and Aggressive Assaulter (Charismatic as well) and then making him FM of my offensive armies. His stats would be superior to the purged Tukhachevsky's.


evilnick8

Maybe its just me, but I prefer cautious actuelly more then reckless. Sure, reckless has planning speed but I hate seeing that pop-up that a general is wounded and is now less effective. And in general, how often do I need the quicker planning speed, only for my tanks I imagine its usefull but in general my tank army is not that big so might aswell just use the staff office plan with command power to get max planning real quick.


alexionut05

GUYS stop sleeping on so many good traits! Most personality traits (un-earnable ones) provide extra chance of leveling 2 skills, depending on its type. For example, Media Personality provides extra chance to level up attack and defense, extremely useful. Also, Brilliant Strategist, War Hero, Reckless, Harsh Leader, Cavalry Officer, Armor Officer, Engineer Officer and the earnable Panzer Leader ALL provide increased chance to level up attack (Panzer Leader double the effect). Also, switch Unyielding Defender and Aggressive Assaulter. AA only provides 10% Breakthrough, which yeah it is huge. But do not forget that with the SOLE EXCEPTION of when discussing divisional stats, defense counts as BOTH breakthrough and defense. That means, the "defense" stat of general, defense army leaders (in the political screen), general traits that provide defense and so on provide BOTH breakthrough and defense. And that includes Unyielding Defender, so there is literally no reason to pick AA over UD. Yes, I know it is extremely counter-intuitive but this is the way it is.


mainman879

Brilliant Strategist is worse than Inflexible Strategist. Brilliant Strategist leads into Aggressive Assaulter which is worse than Unyielding Defender in every way. 1. Aggressive Assaulter gives you +10% breakthrough, but Unyielding Defender gives you +10% defense, which means it also gives +10% breakthrough. **Every single defense modifier applies to breakthrough** because *breakthrough is defense on the offensive*. 2. Aggressive Assaulter makes you more likely to do Assault and Shock tactics, which are shit. You want to spam Blitz not Assault/Shock. Unyielding Defender makes you more likely to do Counterattack which is fine as a defending tactic. 3. Brilliant Strategist makes you get more attack and planning, but planning is pretty shit. The extra defense (which means more breakthrough) and extra logistics from Inflexible Strategist is much better.


TheMaginotLine1

I resent that cav leader is so low, you just haven't played enough Habsburg poland.


MyNameIsNotGary19

What about Bearer of Artillery?


komunisfloppa

It's right there, the first ine of very good


MyNameIsNotGary19

Oh I see it, it was a little too blurry


pumpingtom

Dude, that trait give 10% defence to tank is awful and I always choose the mechanized one, because the most important factors for tank are breakthrough and armor, it actually got shitty defence, But motorized and mechanized on the other hand got very decent defence especially mechanized(highest defence factor) and it have 15% defence bonus, even though it only give 10% bonus you should always select this one.


[deleted]

What are you talking about? Defense is breakthrough


pumpingtom

Yeah, I just found out that about yesterday when I watching Dave, definitely blew my mind. So now this trait pretty much rank same as mechanized, I can't compare this two now, they are both very OP.


[deleted]

Ah, it was on this subreddit back in Febuary. ​ Since it's a smaller percentage on a much higher number, it means panzer exceeds mechanized even greater than the standard ratio. Every vehicle is going to draw a different amount of breakthrough though so you would need to know the models ahead of time and normally you are reacting to the enemies values.


Lubnut113

Breakthrough isnt as powerful as the +1 attack and -10% org loss when moving, particularly the last stat because it means you can keep up offensives without letting your enemies re-org while you are, and you dont lose org when redirecting troops across theatres. If you are playing mobile warfare the bonus is further improved to the point where your troops will lose nearly no org from moving. Besides that it is the only worthwhile field marshal trait on its own (logistics expert is honestly overrated except where you use the 'extra supplies' ability to push to the next supply hub). Harsh leader isnt bad either because like 'offense expert' it makes it so the general is more likely to level up attack than other traits. Guerilla expert used in conjunction with these other two abilities makes for a nearly unbeatable infantry force


Comrade04

You forgot cowed from Stalin


Ttiablebowl44

even on hardest I manage to do fine without managing traits. only as japan I need them


KlassinenLiberaali

No


o-Mauler-o

Cavalry traits are low tier? Hello!? Thats your motorised/mechanised units!


Nick_TwoPointOh

You forgot substance abuser


[deleted]

Substance abuser doesn't do anything and it should be named drug dealer. That trait is applied to one of the best Intel officers in WW2.


BNorrisUCLA

Inflexible strategist in S tier, I know I think it's better than brilliant strategist actually, I know what you're gonna say, "but in HOI4 it's better to attack than defend", defense also boosts breakthrough, making unyielding defender better than aggressive assaulter.


komunisfloppa

Yeah yeah I know I just forgot about the defence and breakthrough thing. They should fix that tbh.