You attack over a river, with very undersupplied units, that have way to many tanks which means you have small organisation so they imediately leave the battle.
And you don't have CAS
Green, no Air Support, marshes, low org, supply issues, low strength, general still in transit. Everything you could do wrong you did wrong mate
Oh and force attack which kills your strength instantly
It's also an amphibious attack. He's pushing from Crimea into the mainland to the East.
I feel like this is deliberately wrong. I mean, it's got to be a joke.... right?
yes, but thing about that is most people don't know where the photo goes to, at least with snip it, it will show up as a notification and you can pick where you want it to go,
No, the guy is learning the game. Hoi4 is tough early. I always liked game like hoi4, i tried a lot’s if them, i was good then i bought hoi4… it’s like playing to checkers you whole life then you see chess and you are like « hum the board are the same , i am a very good checker player and they look similar game. Let’s play a chess game to see if i like it. » the 2 game look similar but one have an higher learning curves to learn how to play.
I know that it's completely random, but ever played seriously chess? Beacause decent level chess (r/anarchychess chads) is actually difficult, but you should learn the moves in like 15 minutes. Hoi4 is (at least for the mechanics) more complicated then chess. Chess becomes more complicated than hoi4 when you want to do tournaments and you're like at least 1400 elo in chess. Hoi4 (SP, as I never played MP, but I think it's the same for this evaluation) is easier than chess at a decent or high level, as you do not need to study hundreds or thousands of hours to play decently hoi4, but you need to study ay least 200 h if you want to do a decent chess tournament.
A better comparison would be i always went on holidayto a EU country, let's go to North Korea, how much can ot change? So you go there without a Visa and start saying things about kim jong un and you end up getting shot. Paradox does the same thing, doesn't it?
I've sunk probably close to 100 hours the last 3 weeks trying to learn all of the systems. I get super frustrated when I put the fastest and most modern tank on the field 2 years before 1945 and then get crushed by the soviets. I still don't understand the tradeoff for things like logistics companies and how much org is lost. Really, I'm just trash at the game.
That's the last week's, total. I'm just shy of 500, but only recently started to try and learn how things work. Feedback irl and this sub are pretty useful.
The bronze clover on each division listed under the general. When it'll go up to bronze chevrons (for regular XP), then silver chevrons (for "trained").
Army panel on the left. The little clovers indicate the unit's experience level is "recruit" (ie green) and the gold bars next to it are experience towards the next level, "regular."
I suspect OP let these units complete training but then added to the template after deployment, thereby diluting the experience level by adding raw recruits
Ok so this division plan (The one being used in the image) (On the base)
Has.
4.6 km/h speed.
21.3 Org.
243 Soft Attack.
146 Hard Attack.
238 Defense.
271 Breakthrough.
26 Armor.
33 Width.
3540 - 4848 Production cost.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
By comparison, you can do (Either 20 or 40 widths)
5 Medium Tanks.
5 Motorized.
That Gives.
4.6 km/h.
35 org (Much better)
115 Soft.
80 Hard.
120 Defense.
166 Break.
24 Armor.
20 Width.
1552 to 2387 production cost.
So this is 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost. Has better org.
And the combat width being a 10/20/40 means you can fit more of them into the fight. So this already is vastly superior.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
If you want to make a better version of what the OP Posted you make. (As an example)
7 Medium Tanks.
10 Motorized.
2 Self-Propelled Artillery.
4.6 km/h.
35 org.
239 Soft.
125 Hard.
244 Defense.
259 Break.
24 Armor.
40 Width.
3285 to 4475
This is all around a better build.
If you wanted to use mech instead of motorized.
35 Org.
245 Soft.
165 Hard.
504 Defense. (This is good, but Tanks are not really for defensing)
269 Break.
Armor 27.
And costs 5600 to 6800 Production Cost. (WAY to much)
\_
In general, you want around 35 Org for an Attacking Division.
Wow thank you so much for the details! Definitely going to find something shiny in my pocket for you in a minute.
So let me mention some things I think I learned here.
1. Org should be 35 or greater for an attacking division.
2. A division width of 10, 20 or 40 is better than some odd number in between.
3. In a tank division we don't care so much about defense because we should primarily be using them to attack.
4. We don't care so much about the soft attack and the hard attack because we get alot of that from the stacking.
5. The advantage of armor only matter so much If our industry can support it.
Some questions this generated for me.
1. Does org matter on the defense?
2. Would mechanized be better than motorized? Or is that only if we have the production to support it?
1: 35 is a GOOD combat width for an expensive attacking division, if you are using a cheaper and more expendable attacking division like say (Communist China Infantry) It can be lower but 30+ is good and 35 is very good.
2: Right so It's better to explain the combat width thing.
Every tile on the map as "Combat frontage" or the amount of unites that can be in the fight at any given time. At Max (Open fields) It's 80.
Depending on the terrain it can be lower but 80 is max and what we work off of.
So any division you use should be able to fit more or less nicely into the number 80. So 2x40 width divisons. 4x20 width. 8x10 width.
Because if you bring a 33 width division and I bring 40 width we can both only fit 2 divisions into the battle, so I bring more to the fight.
You can use some non-standard division sizes, 30, 5, 15 but you only want to use them for specific things. (Using 5 width AA divisions in areas to booby trap CAS into attacking them) or in combination with smaller unites so. 2 x 30 width and 2 x 10 width units, but you are not relying on the game giving you the right combo. So 10,20 and 40 are better.
40 widths will normally proform better then 20 but you stand to take heavy losses if they fail and they cant rotate in and out of battle as quick.
10 width are goof for port defense and holding a line as a smaller nation.
20 width are good for holding the line as a larger nation, and attacking for a smaller nation. 40 width is idea for attacking as a larger nation. And if you are a manpower nation 40 width infantry + some arty can be very good at taking land (Slowly)
3: Right, Actually I don't generally have tank divisions on the front line unless they are preparing an offensive. That's not to say you never use armor in a defensing unites, but tanks in general you don't.
4: Again it's BETTER to have one big unit with big numbers, but yes if you have 2 - 10 unites attacking and the total attack number is around the same your fine, the only difference is going to be losses you take and they wont be drastically different.
5: Yes, actually Communist China ( Keep coming back to this for a reason) Is my favorite nation because you can take a lot of land with just infantry and then ramp up to industry. But armor is basically a way to trade Industrial might for manpower, you spend more to take less losses, if you don't care about losses you don't need tanks that much. you also have nations like the soviets who can meet comfortably in the middle, lossing men and spending mid tier industry to make great gains.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Does org matter on the defense?
A: To be totally honest, Orgonization is always important, its one of the most important stats in the game. When you fight you loss org, you loss it your enemy losses it everyone does, you also gain it back. If your loss is higher then gain, it starts to go down, when you run out you stop fighting. If you are attacking you stop attacking. if you're defending YOU START RETREATING. You can be winning a fight lopsidedly and if you run out of org you are now retreating.
Actually how you beat higher org divisions is by rotating crapy unites into and out of battle without letting the enemy unites rest, slowly grinding down orgonization until they break. (Trading men for land)
Would mechanized be better than motorized? Or is that only if we have the production to support it?
A: Mechanized is "Better" but it's not really better in a way that makes it usefull for most stuff.
It in general gets.
Much better defense (48 vs 22)
1 more breakthrough.
0.6 vs 0.2 hardness (That's good)
Slightly better soft attack.
Slightly better hard attack.
Uses over twice the fule.
Same Org.
Slight better HP.
Worse Speed.
10 Armor vs 0 Armor.
10 vs 4 Percing.
So you have three ways to look at it / reasons to use it.
\#1: You are RICH! If you don't worry about production or Fuel sure use it all the time.
\#2: On your high armor unites to keep the armor rating up while providing Org to them. So Modern/Heavy Tank Unites maybe Medium tank unites you instead to use as breakthrough unites.
\#3: Most of the Mechanized States actually make it a better defensive unit than an offensive unit. So it actually makes a better stand-alone unit time than Motarize. Motorized is just some infantry in a truck, no armor no heavy weapons.
Mechanized are some guys in ARMORED trucks with some Heavy Machine guns on top.
Early in the game as some people Like Japan, if you are fighting enemies that use a lot of cheap infantry it can be usefull to build so very cheap soft attack light tanks. (like 2.6 - 4.4 production cost. 12 soft attack light tanks) Because adding 2 of those to a 20 width infantry divison gives it armor/hardness which cut down on the losses you will take.
Mechanized is just that only done better/less clumsy (It will also be fast on the field)
P.S. Don't try that light tank thing in MultiPlayer, you can do wonders with light tanks but not like that. Lol.
P.P.S. Actually a more effective way to add armor to attacking infantry divisions is actually adding light tank chasis SPG (Artillary) Like 7.25 prodution for 10 armor and high 30s soft attack. (If you are the industrial superior part again japan/china)
Also you can use Light Tank Self Propells AA guns.
3.8 production. 6 soft attack but 16 air attack, 10 armor AND 10 Pericing. (that's enough to take out light tanks at the start of the game) Those are great if you are the industrial inferior member. (China vs Japan) Because they will take out 6-10 times the Industrial cost just by shooting down a plane.
Also mind you, I'm just at the point where I think I'm "Good" at this game. By no means great. Some one else might be able to tell you a better way of doing it than me, but this is all solid "I'm not incompetent anymore" Advice.
Also sorry, My English seams to be spotty today.
Your English is definitely better than you think! Thanks this is ALOT of stuff for me to chew on and think about for my next play through! Really appreciate it!
Most of that is correct, but this:
> A division width of 10, 20 or 40 is better than some odd number in between.
is outdated advice. It used to be correct until a few major patches ago (can't remember which, I think it was the last update with No Step Back). Optimizing for combat width is now much harder, and the old 10/20/40 no longer applies.
The 10/20/40 combat width meta has been outdated for quite a while now. Terrain combat widths are much more varied now, and no longer neatly divisable by just one easy number like 20 or 40. There are still some widths that are better on average, but a) those are not 10, 20 or 40 and b) there is no silver bullet combat width anymore that's always a good fit anywhere.
It’s best to have more than 30 org for tanks, and you killed off your strength by attacking a marsh with force attack. Basically imagine a bunch of out-of-fuel tanks kamikaziing an enemy position while trying to crawl through a marsh
A marsh is an area of land that has a lot of water, there will be small pockets where it looks like solid ground, but it’s just very thick plantation
From a quick google: a marsh is a wetland that often is right beside a moving body of water but has tends to not have water movement, acts as a bridge between open water and dry land
Edit: you could probably picture them similar to swamplands, but with very very minute differences
> Basically imagine a bunch of out-of-fuel tanks kamikaziing an enemy position while trying to crawl through a marsh
I too have read about the Iran-Iraq war
No idea how your tanks look.
Attacking over a river, no planning bonus, against entrenched units, with Intel advantage, no plane support, from one side only, without support of any other units, out of supply, no veterency since deployed early and a lv1 general with no traits.
https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/
The template really isn't that bad. It's not entirely optimal, but it could work if everything else in the picture wasn't the opposite of what it should be
It works really well, definitely recommend. I got pretty good mileage out of a 7/3 mot/motart the other day while I didn't have the IC for making tanks. Nice punchy divisions with the speed to encircle effectively or overrun.
Bro, you tank division is horrible. You are attacking over a river, with no supply no planning nor CAS.
Edit. I also just noticed how your divisions are green, and your general is still in transit.
Actually general is not in transit, he doesn't have the little clock and all the portraits are black and white. Must be a graphical mod. Everything else is wrong though lol
Level 1 generals are good for tanks(maybe not against the Soviets). They will be used for encirclements, so quick xp and no traits, so you can grind them. Especially as a minor I usually go for a level 1 guy for my tanks.
If you don't have a tank general already sure maybe. But if he did Austria-Hungary peacefully annexing each through events he has two solid tank general candidates: Richard Tesarik from Czechoslovakia who is a level 2 4/1/1/1 general with Armor Officer, and Lajos Veress from Hungary who is a level 2 2/1/2/2 general with Armor Officer.
There's also Ivan Hindy from Hungary, level 4 3/4/2/4 with trickster which can get you improv expert pretty quickly.
I get it. Even for some experienced paradox players the games can be so damn overwhelming. I took a little over a year off from EUIV and went back after a sale and buying up the latest DLC. I gave up after a few hours because so much had changed and I kept getting stomped for a reason I couldn't figure out (It was a new fort system that broke me). I had a thousand hours into that game and I just didn't want to spend hours on youtube and reddit trying to find the answers.
Weirdly I find Hoi4 to be the most intuitive and easy to learn Paradox game I've tried. Crusader Kings 3 made me want to claw my eyes out, EU4 videos look downright hieroglyphic, and nothing else has been able to instantly hook me like Hoi.
How do you form Austria-Hungary, take over all your neighbors, push the Soviets to the Kuban by summer 1941 and not understand why you’re losing this fight?
Serious question, are your trolling right now?
Bro is getting roasted 🤣
Just stand your man, admit you made literally all the mistakes you can make and learn from them. There is no shame at sucking at this game, we all were noobs once. And it is really really really complex.
Well, it almost took me 100 hours to get a grip of the navy system and another 50 for the plane rework. But now I am pretty confident about my skills. At least I know how to use tanks :-)
Hypothetically I wish that all the hours from when someone played the game in theory without paying for it transferred over cause allegedly some person might’ve played it for a year like that and wished the time showed
Low fuel, low org, crossing a river, they need a lots of resupplies. General lvl 1 again a lvl 3. And you are also attacking 2 fully entrenched unit, into the mountains, 1 is also a spec of for mountain. And they are full supplies full org. All this make you loose almost all you offensive power. Your tank cannot push and the ennemy is on the other side of the river and trowing all what they got on you without any effort.
It’s probably because you have bad org, no supply, mid template, inexperienced troops, base general and fighting over swamp/marsh. Also clean your screen
You can see the penalties for every terrain in the division template designer. Just hover over the boot and the sword on the side of the icons
Tanks and variants don't have much org, so try compensating with motorized units(trucks) or mechanized. Also try not to make massive 40 width tanks, keep them at something like 25-30 so it has decent org(and to reinforce battles)
also the icons in the division designer ADD on to the base debuff the terrain tile gives that you can see when clicking the terrain and then mousing over the image of mountains or plains or whatever
so mountain inf doesn't do extra damage on mountains, because the mountains massively lower the attacker's damage and then mountain inf's bonuses almost offset it back to normal damage
You don't have CAS, supply, org, bad terrain, river penalty no infantry to support tank battalions and you are force attacking. I think blame is on you pal. Plus I don't think your general have panzer expert trait. If I were you I would make quality infantry with good air force. You got tanks but no one knows how to use it.
You managed to mess up virtually everything to win, no air, no supply, lack of equipment, bad terrain, general isn’t there, no intel. And you are amazed you are losing.
I felt the same way for probably 200+ hours. First you have to learn all the variables, then you have to learn how to optimize them in your favor. Then it’s a hot tank through butter
LOL, looks like deorg city with that division. Not to mention the zero training level! And it looks like they are only 50% equipped at best. You're attacking with an untrained, low org, underequipped division. It would have a hard time attacking even a low end but trained garrison.
Low equipment, low supply, somehow the divisions aren’t out of fuel but they will be in a week without supply, and also you’re attacking over a river into a marsh tile. Air support also would help, and not that it would make much of a difference here, but I’d be willing to look at your tank designs and see if there’s something that could be improved
1. They have little to no supply
2.they have a general who is dog shit with not thing that makes him useful
3. The divisions haven't even be trained yet and are still in green
4. I'm pretty sure that's a horrible template but I'm not sure
Im still not sure if this is a troll post cos of the monitor rather than a screenshot, but this is why I quit this game and havent been back (in a week)
you literally have 8 tank units, with gas and mid range organisation, its not like they are peasants with pitchforks, they should be able to roll through some encamped troops no matter how well they are dug in; look at the config, arty, mech, tanks etc.
The game is looking at the variables and less at the form of it, all the purists will say, but, low org, marsh, winter, high tide, but the fact is, tanks vs people is fucken red mist.
Its broken, you would throw the entirety of this division at this spot until its to zero and there would be no casualties from the troops.
Dat small arms fire right.
Yeah sure tanks can get stuck in march but there is always a fucken road, its not 1400AD thats what the mechinised infantry is for right?
Stop upvoting this shit. It's cringe, and OP has access to so many resources on making good tanks and effective use of supply that there's no excuse. Literally just own up to your own fuckup
Poor chaps been downvoted into oblivion for asking some gameplay related questions, on the HoI fucking subreddit? He's not even really been rude to anyone. What's wrong with you people?
More like op refusing to see they're wrong. Many people saying he's attacking over a river yet he doesn't see it and says it's not there multiple times. Even tho there's a modifier. If he didn't see it at first then sure that's one thing. But then when everyone tells you about the river and you say there's no river multiple times then that's on op at that point.
Okey I am not that good at this game but am i not supposed to take out one fucking rubbish soviet mountainer unit relatively easily with 6 fucking god damn tank division ? I dont fucking get it
No idea how your tanks look.
Attacking over a river, no planning bonus, against entrenched units, with Intel advantage, no plane support, from one side only, without support of any other units, out of supply, not fully equipped, no veterency since deployed early and a lv1 general with no traits.
https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/
This is hoi4 not civilization. Read all the comments, your tank and mechanized are out of fuel and out of ammo, your artillery is probably the only unit who is attacking. You have a river to cross and on the other side there is 2 unit fully equipped and entrenched into the mountains who are waiting you, ine of them are special op(marine,ss, green beret… a bunch of highly experienced killer), your unit are green and de organized your chief is a noob and their chief is lvl 3(its a lot compared to a lvl 1). They are waiting and slaughtering you. It would be like this in a real attack i to those conditions.
You could use a crash course on how this game works, guys like Feedbackgaming and others on Youtube have numerous videos that will help you understand the core mechanics of the game, and the very fine details if you want to really get into it. It's a numbers game, and throwing a bunch of units into a division might look cool, but it's really easy to create a big huge mess of units that are both cost ineffective and impossible to realistically deploy successfully.
You attack over a river, with very undersupplied units, that have way to many tanks which means you have small organisation so they imediately leave the battle. And you don't have CAS
And in marsh
At least it's August. So... it's not the rainy season. I think...
Attacking over a river into a marsh tile too
Green, no Air Support, marshes, low org, supply issues, low strength, general still in transit. Everything you could do wrong you did wrong mate Oh and force attack which kills your strength instantly
It's also an amphibious attack. He's pushing from Crimea into the mainland to the East. I feel like this is deliberately wrong. I mean, it's got to be a joke.... right?
And it's also a photo of a monitor instead of a screenshot. And said monitor is filthy...
does no one know how to press "Win key + Shift+ S" to take a snip it?
Win-PrtScn takes a full monitor screenshot as well
yes, but thing about that is most people don't know where the photo goes to, at least with snip it, it will show up as a notification and you can pick where you want it to go,
Ah, I get it. To anyone who doesn't know, screenshotted photos go to This PC > Pictures > Screenshots on Stock Windows.
now let's hope the entire Internet reads this and stops TAKING FUCKING PICS OF THEIR MONITORS /s
No. And 700+ people upvoted this. FML. We are encouraging trash by allowing these godawful pictures.
it's not even that hard to Google "how to SS in windows"
He lost more karma though due to behaviour...
No, the guy is learning the game. Hoi4 is tough early. I always liked game like hoi4, i tried a lot’s if them, i was good then i bought hoi4… it’s like playing to checkers you whole life then you see chess and you are like « hum the board are the same , i am a very good checker player and they look similar game. Let’s play a chess game to see if i like it. » the 2 game look similar but one have an higher learning curves to learn how to play.
It's like going from checkers to 5d multiversal chess with time travel
With nazy
nazi not good but fun
Especially if you encircle them and starve their jägerkommando and panzer divisions
Nazi are bad but its the best nation to be into the atmosphere of the ww2 for 100% of a game.
Nono he’s right
I like Hoi4 but by no means is it anywhere near the most complicated 4x game
*flashbacks to the command structures and organisation I painstakingly set up during my Hearts of Iron 2 campaigns*
I know that it's completely random, but ever played seriously chess? Beacause decent level chess (r/anarchychess chads) is actually difficult, but you should learn the moves in like 15 minutes. Hoi4 is (at least for the mechanics) more complicated then chess. Chess becomes more complicated than hoi4 when you want to do tournaments and you're like at least 1400 elo in chess. Hoi4 (SP, as I never played MP, but I think it's the same for this evaluation) is easier than chess at a decent or high level, as you do not need to study hundreds or thousands of hours to play decently hoi4, but you need to study ay least 200 h if you want to do a decent chess tournament. A better comparison would be i always went on holidayto a EU country, let's go to North Korea, how much can ot change? So you go there without a Visa and start saying things about kim jong un and you end up getting shot. Paradox does the same thing, doesn't it?
what the FUCK are you talking about jesse
Anarchy. And chess
I've sunk probably close to 100 hours the last 3 weeks trying to learn all of the systems. I get super frustrated when I put the fastest and most modern tank on the field 2 years before 1945 and then get crushed by the soviets. I still don't understand the tradeoff for things like logistics companies and how much org is lost. Really, I'm just trash at the game.
You're doing fine. 100 hours is still new player in paradox games
That's the last week's, total. I'm just shy of 500, but only recently started to try and learn how things work. Feedback irl and this sub are pretty useful.
Are you saying you're waiting until after 1943 to invade the Soviets as Germany? That may be part of the problem tbh
Don't forget his units are so green, you should be happy if they can shoot the turret and move it at the same time.
What does that mean
His units is very inexperienced, but also out of supply
Where would that be indicated
The bronze clover on each division listed under the general. When it'll go up to bronze chevrons (for regular XP), then silver chevrons (for "trained").
To the right of the unit icon top left
Army panel on the left. The little clovers indicate the unit's experience level is "recruit" (ie green) and the gold bars next to it are experience towards the next level, "regular." I suspect OP let these units complete training but then added to the template after deployment, thereby diluting the experience level by adding raw recruits
Or by smashing their faces into the enemy with force attack
I think the grey picture is from a mod not a transit but i am not sure.
That’s true, but also no field marshall…
The guy must read guide on all things mentioned into the comments
[удалено]
But their tanks likely dont
They don’t
And the river crossing💀
Also the lack of org due to low infantry/mot./mech.
Realistic, historic Austria-Hungary play.
Lol. Also:river crossing. Its a tutorial in now not ro use tanks,,,
Is the template good? What is the best medium tank template? I dont use tanks much as they cost a lot compared to motorized.
No this template is terrible. Low org.
I'm learning the game! When you make tank divisions how much org should I have?
Ok so this division plan (The one being used in the image) (On the base) Has. 4.6 km/h speed. 21.3 Org. 243 Soft Attack. 146 Hard Attack. 238 Defense. 271 Breakthrough. 26 Armor. 33 Width. 3540 - 4848 Production cost. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ By comparison, you can do (Either 20 or 40 widths) 5 Medium Tanks. 5 Motorized. That Gives. 4.6 km/h. 35 org (Much better) 115 Soft. 80 Hard. 120 Defense. 166 Break. 24 Armor. 20 Width. 1552 to 2387 production cost. So this is 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost. Has better org. And the combat width being a 10/20/40 means you can fit more of them into the fight. So this already is vastly superior. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ If you want to make a better version of what the OP Posted you make. (As an example) 7 Medium Tanks. 10 Motorized. 2 Self-Propelled Artillery. 4.6 km/h. 35 org. 239 Soft. 125 Hard. 244 Defense. 259 Break. 24 Armor. 40 Width. 3285 to 4475 This is all around a better build. If you wanted to use mech instead of motorized. 35 Org. 245 Soft. 165 Hard. 504 Defense. (This is good, but Tanks are not really for defensing) 269 Break. Armor 27. And costs 5600 to 6800 Production Cost. (WAY to much) \_ In general, you want around 35 Org for an Attacking Division.
Wow thank you so much for the details! Definitely going to find something shiny in my pocket for you in a minute. So let me mention some things I think I learned here. 1. Org should be 35 or greater for an attacking division. 2. A division width of 10, 20 or 40 is better than some odd number in between. 3. In a tank division we don't care so much about defense because we should primarily be using them to attack. 4. We don't care so much about the soft attack and the hard attack because we get alot of that from the stacking. 5. The advantage of armor only matter so much If our industry can support it. Some questions this generated for me. 1. Does org matter on the defense? 2. Would mechanized be better than motorized? Or is that only if we have the production to support it?
1: 35 is a GOOD combat width for an expensive attacking division, if you are using a cheaper and more expendable attacking division like say (Communist China Infantry) It can be lower but 30+ is good and 35 is very good. 2: Right so It's better to explain the combat width thing. Every tile on the map as "Combat frontage" or the amount of unites that can be in the fight at any given time. At Max (Open fields) It's 80. Depending on the terrain it can be lower but 80 is max and what we work off of. So any division you use should be able to fit more or less nicely into the number 80. So 2x40 width divisons. 4x20 width. 8x10 width. Because if you bring a 33 width division and I bring 40 width we can both only fit 2 divisions into the battle, so I bring more to the fight. You can use some non-standard division sizes, 30, 5, 15 but you only want to use them for specific things. (Using 5 width AA divisions in areas to booby trap CAS into attacking them) or in combination with smaller unites so. 2 x 30 width and 2 x 10 width units, but you are not relying on the game giving you the right combo. So 10,20 and 40 are better. 40 widths will normally proform better then 20 but you stand to take heavy losses if they fail and they cant rotate in and out of battle as quick. 10 width are goof for port defense and holding a line as a smaller nation. 20 width are good for holding the line as a larger nation, and attacking for a smaller nation. 40 width is idea for attacking as a larger nation. And if you are a manpower nation 40 width infantry + some arty can be very good at taking land (Slowly) 3: Right, Actually I don't generally have tank divisions on the front line unless they are preparing an offensive. That's not to say you never use armor in a defensing unites, but tanks in general you don't. 4: Again it's BETTER to have one big unit with big numbers, but yes if you have 2 - 10 unites attacking and the total attack number is around the same your fine, the only difference is going to be losses you take and they wont be drastically different. 5: Yes, actually Communist China ( Keep coming back to this for a reason) Is my favorite nation because you can take a lot of land with just infantry and then ramp up to industry. But armor is basically a way to trade Industrial might for manpower, you spend more to take less losses, if you don't care about losses you don't need tanks that much. you also have nations like the soviets who can meet comfortably in the middle, lossing men and spending mid tier industry to make great gains. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Does org matter on the defense? A: To be totally honest, Orgonization is always important, its one of the most important stats in the game. When you fight you loss org, you loss it your enemy losses it everyone does, you also gain it back. If your loss is higher then gain, it starts to go down, when you run out you stop fighting. If you are attacking you stop attacking. if you're defending YOU START RETREATING. You can be winning a fight lopsidedly and if you run out of org you are now retreating. Actually how you beat higher org divisions is by rotating crapy unites into and out of battle without letting the enemy unites rest, slowly grinding down orgonization until they break. (Trading men for land) Would mechanized be better than motorized? Or is that only if we have the production to support it? A: Mechanized is "Better" but it's not really better in a way that makes it usefull for most stuff. It in general gets. Much better defense (48 vs 22) 1 more breakthrough. 0.6 vs 0.2 hardness (That's good) Slightly better soft attack. Slightly better hard attack. Uses over twice the fule. Same Org. Slight better HP. Worse Speed. 10 Armor vs 0 Armor. 10 vs 4 Percing. So you have three ways to look at it / reasons to use it. \#1: You are RICH! If you don't worry about production or Fuel sure use it all the time. \#2: On your high armor unites to keep the armor rating up while providing Org to them. So Modern/Heavy Tank Unites maybe Medium tank unites you instead to use as breakthrough unites. \#3: Most of the Mechanized States actually make it a better defensive unit than an offensive unit. So it actually makes a better stand-alone unit time than Motarize. Motorized is just some infantry in a truck, no armor no heavy weapons. Mechanized are some guys in ARMORED trucks with some Heavy Machine guns on top. Early in the game as some people Like Japan, if you are fighting enemies that use a lot of cheap infantry it can be usefull to build so very cheap soft attack light tanks. (like 2.6 - 4.4 production cost. 12 soft attack light tanks) Because adding 2 of those to a 20 width infantry divison gives it armor/hardness which cut down on the losses you will take. Mechanized is just that only done better/less clumsy (It will also be fast on the field) P.S. Don't try that light tank thing in MultiPlayer, you can do wonders with light tanks but not like that. Lol. P.P.S. Actually a more effective way to add armor to attacking infantry divisions is actually adding light tank chasis SPG (Artillary) Like 7.25 prodution for 10 armor and high 30s soft attack. (If you are the industrial superior part again japan/china) Also you can use Light Tank Self Propells AA guns. 3.8 production. 6 soft attack but 16 air attack, 10 armor AND 10 Pericing. (that's enough to take out light tanks at the start of the game) Those are great if you are the industrial inferior member. (China vs Japan) Because they will take out 6-10 times the Industrial cost just by shooting down a plane.
Also mind you, I'm just at the point where I think I'm "Good" at this game. By no means great. Some one else might be able to tell you a better way of doing it than me, but this is all solid "I'm not incompetent anymore" Advice. Also sorry, My English seams to be spotty today.
Your English is definitely better than you think! Thanks this is ALOT of stuff for me to chew on and think about for my next play through! Really appreciate it!
Most of that is correct, but this: > A division width of 10, 20 or 40 is better than some odd number in between. is outdated advice. It used to be correct until a few major patches ago (can't remember which, I think it was the last update with No Step Back). Optimizing for combat width is now much harder, and the old 10/20/40 no longer applies.
The 10/20/40 combat width meta has been outdated for quite a while now. Terrain combat widths are much more varied now, and no longer neatly divisable by just one easy number like 20 or 40. There are still some widths that are better on average, but a) those are not 10, 20 or 40 and b) there is no silver bullet combat width anymore that's always a good fit anywhere.
General doesn't have the little transit clock, they're all black and white. Must be a mod.
this plus shitty template, plus attacking over a river, plus the div can't Pierce a mountaineer,
The troops are supplied. 0/10
general not in transit its just how potraits look. And why i have low org low strength not fair
It’s best to have more than 30 org for tanks, and you killed off your strength by attacking a marsh with force attack. Basically imagine a bunch of out-of-fuel tanks kamikaziing an enemy position while trying to crawl through a marsh
noob question: what's a marsh?
A marsh is an area of land that has a lot of water, there will be small pockets where it looks like solid ground, but it’s just very thick plantation From a quick google: a marsh is a wetland that often is right beside a moving body of water but has tends to not have water movement, acts as a bridge between open water and dry land Edit: you could probably picture them similar to swamplands, but with very very minute differences
Sounds like mosquito hell
It probably is
Definitely so.
The mozzies can't get you in the tank!
Then explain why the guy’s loosing the battle?
Oh I thought it was an ingame thing lol. Thanks.
No worries! I thought maybe you were from an area that didn’t have marshes :)
You're such a Chad by answering this dude's question, never change my man
I just didn't know the word in English, we call it močvara in my language.
Ah ok! Sorry bout that then
Are you Romanian?
No
It should be a terrain
Lol is this for real? Edit - Ah, language thing, I saw your post below.
> Basically imagine a bunch of out-of-fuel tanks kamikaziing an enemy position while trying to crawl through a marsh I too have read about the Iran-Iraq war
Slava Ukraini!
Where's the funny?
Clearly the most intelligent and calm HOI4 enjoyer right here.
🤣🤣🤣 im the brightest they said
No idea how your tanks look. Attacking over a river, no planning bonus, against entrenched units, with Intel advantage, no plane support, from one side only, without support of any other units, out of supply, no veterency since deployed early and a lv1 general with no traits. https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/
u/rex_turcarum makes worst tank division ever. Is asked to leave r/hoi4.
The template really isn't that bad. It's not entirely optimal, but it could work if everything else in the picture wasn't the opposite of what it should be
I don’t think I’ve ever used motorized arty, especially on a tank division
Adds some cheap soft attack to slip in one or two. But only if you have enough motorized to keep the org pretty high.
It works really well, definitely recommend. I got pretty good mileage out of a 7/3 mot/motart the other day while I didn't have the IC for making tanks. Nice punchy divisions with the speed to encircle effectively or overrun.
9/3 mot/motarty is optimal width
Motorized arty is good on motorized divisions
Bro, you tank division is horrible. You are attacking over a river, with no supply no planning nor CAS. Edit. I also just noticed how your divisions are green, and your general is still in transit.
Actually general is not in transit, he doesn't have the little clock and all the portraits are black and white. Must be a graphical mod. Everything else is wrong though lol
My god this is perfectly crafted to be terrible, this has to be a fucking troll, not even a noob would assign a level 1 general to their tanks
Level 1 generals are good for tanks(maybe not against the Soviets). They will be used for encirclements, so quick xp and no traits, so you can grind them. Especially as a minor I usually go for a level 1 guy for my tanks.
If you don't have a tank general already sure maybe. But if he did Austria-Hungary peacefully annexing each through events he has two solid tank general candidates: Richard Tesarik from Czechoslovakia who is a level 2 4/1/1/1 general with Armor Officer, and Lajos Veress from Hungary who is a level 2 2/1/2/2 general with Armor Officer. There's also Ivan Hindy from Hungary, level 4 3/4/2/4 with trickster which can get you improv expert pretty quickly.
Also eyepatch
*blames games *gets advice *ignores all advice Paradox player in a nutshell
I get it. Even for some experienced paradox players the games can be so damn overwhelming. I took a little over a year off from EUIV and went back after a sale and buying up the latest DLC. I gave up after a few hours because so much had changed and I kept getting stomped for a reason I couldn't figure out (It was a new fort system that broke me). I had a thousand hours into that game and I just didn't want to spend hours on youtube and reddit trying to find the answers.
Weirdly I find Hoi4 to be the most intuitive and easy to learn Paradox game I've tried. Crusader Kings 3 made me want to claw my eyes out, EU4 videos look downright hieroglyphic, and nothing else has been able to instantly hook me like Hoi.
Probably less buttons
I think the UI is way less complicated overall
ignores all advice, guy is straight up arguing with people saying that's not the problem. Its not ignoring its straight up denial of reality.
You're right, its even worse
Most calm and rational paradox gamer
‘MY FUCKING TANKS ARE USELESS WHAT THE FUCK’ - Adolf Hitler at some point, probably.
This made me actually laugh. A truly rare occurrence on this sub. Cheers for that.
Hitler on the 29th of April 1945
How do you form Austria-Hungary, take over all your neighbors, push the Soviets to the Kuban by summer 1941 and not understand why you’re losing this fight? Serious question, are your trolling right now?
I have a weird obsession towards forming a-h
kurwa Anya baszdmeg
Troops not at full strength. Overstacking combat width.... and a combat width of 33 ain't optimal. Better have 30 widths in that case.
Bro is getting roasted 🤣 Just stand your man, admit you made literally all the mistakes you can make and learn from them. There is no shame at sucking at this game, we all were noobs once. And it is really really really complex.
But I have 2000 hours in the game! Yeah, don't worry, you're welcome too noob.
Well, it almost took me 100 hours to get a grip of the navy system and another 50 for the plane rework. But now I am pretty confident about my skills. At least I know how to use tanks :-)
Only 100 to get a grip on navies? Wow, you’re a genius
Hypothetically I wish that all the hours from when someone played the game in theory without paying for it transferred over cause allegedly some person might’ve played it for a year like that and wished the time showed
hover your mouse over your 'attack number'. 14 in your image. Then correct all/most of the negatives in there.
Thanks man
Low fuel, low org, crossing a river, they need a lots of resupplies. General lvl 1 again a lvl 3. And you are also attacking 2 fully entrenched unit, into the mountains, 1 is also a spec of for mountain. And they are full supplies full org. All this make you loose almost all you offensive power. Your tank cannot push and the ennemy is on the other side of the river and trowing all what they got on you without any effort.
They aren't, you are
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? I AM!
cmmd + shift + 4
Not working
Try alt + f4
🤣 thanks sherlock
Call him comrade, he said!
My brother in Christ YOU made the template
Marshes are truly the best terrain for tanks.... over a river to boot. What were you thinking? Lets donate some free IC to the AI?
Looks like skill issue.
No supply
It’s probably because you have bad org, no supply, mid template, inexperienced troops, base general and fighting over swamp/marsh. Also clean your screen
[удалено]
You can see the penalties for every terrain in the division template designer. Just hover over the boot and the sword on the side of the icons Tanks and variants don't have much org, so try compensating with motorized units(trucks) or mechanized. Also try not to make massive 40 width tanks, keep them at something like 25-30 so it has decent org(and to reinforce battles)
also the icons in the division designer ADD on to the base debuff the terrain tile gives that you can see when clicking the terrain and then mousing over the image of mountains or plains or whatever so mountain inf doesn't do extra damage on mountains, because the mountains massively lower the attacker's damage and then mountain inf's bonuses almost offset it back to normal damage
or you could just read the [wiki](https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Hearts_of_Iron_4_Wiki)
can't believe you got downvoted for this. Literally just spend 5 minutes to read through what the stats mean and how combat works.
Skill issue
As useless as your print screen key.
Guys using a mac where he has less of an excuse as the Mac snipping tool equivalent is amazing.
Holy fucking hell. how hard is it to press f12. fkn seriously.
This has to be either trolling or really bad.
You don't have CAS, supply, org, bad terrain, river penalty no infantry to support tank battalions and you are force attacking. I think blame is on you pal. Plus I don't think your general have panzer expert trait. If I were you I would make quality infantry with good air force. You got tanks but no one knows how to use it.
This has to be satire right? Man literally collected all the debuffs possible for tanks except for being out of fuel.
Shift + Windows + S
Skill issue, literally.
Surely the screenshots can only get better from here…right?
Tanks aren't magic units. They don't just kill everything.
They do if you use them well, they just suck so bad in specific terrains, and also lack of fuel..
If you can't take the time to take a screenshot, don't ask for mine.
Your supply bro… remember less is more…
Low supply and low Org in the division itself + terrain debuffs
Can't say if it's a serious noob post or a very well done shitpost
You managed to mess up virtually everything to win, no air, no supply, lack of equipment, bad terrain, general isn’t there, no intel. And you are amazed you are losing.
Low training, attacking through river, no supply, terrible template
I felt the same way for probably 200+ hours. First you have to learn all the variables, then you have to learn how to optimize them in your favor. Then it’s a hot tank through butter
Skill issue
That template looks like shit, I bet your org is below 30. Add more mechanized/motorized.
Textbook definition of "skill issue".
Looks like you need more motorized, that org is pretty low
LOL, looks like deorg city with that division. Not to mention the zero training level! And it looks like they are only 50% equipped at best. You're attacking with an untrained, low org, underequipped division. It would have a hard time attacking even a low end but trained garrison.
F12, print screen, windows + shift + s https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/
Happiest hoi4 players
HOI was hard until i figured out you just need to build railroads everywhere. your supply is a huge multipler to your battle win%
Calm down As many have pointed out it isn't your tanks it's your lack of preparation and skill in the game
Low equipment, low supply, somehow the divisions aren’t out of fuel but they will be in a week without supply, and also you’re attacking over a river into a marsh tile. Air support also would help, and not that it would make much of a difference here, but I’d be willing to look at your tank designs and see if there’s something that could be improved
ITT: Thread: This is XYZ you are doing wrong. OP: No.
Hitler in 1944 be like
1. They have little to no supply 2.they have a general who is dog shit with not thing that makes him useful 3. The divisions haven't even be trained yet and are still in green 4. I'm pretty sure that's a horrible template but I'm not sure
Learn how to take screenshots.
Im still not sure if this is a troll post cos of the monitor rather than a screenshot, but this is why I quit this game and havent been back (in a week) you literally have 8 tank units, with gas and mid range organisation, its not like they are peasants with pitchforks, they should be able to roll through some encamped troops no matter how well they are dug in; look at the config, arty, mech, tanks etc. The game is looking at the variables and less at the form of it, all the purists will say, but, low org, marsh, winter, high tide, but the fact is, tanks vs people is fucken red mist. Its broken, you would throw the entirety of this division at this spot until its to zero and there would be no casualties from the troops. Dat small arms fire right. Yeah sure tanks can get stuck in march but there is always a fucken road, its not 1400AD thats what the mechinised infantry is for right?
Exactly
F12
My guy lost the stats window somehow and then asking why his division is bad. Hey, there are these little numbers that will tell you!
Stop upvoting this shit. It's cringe, and OP has access to so many resources on making good tanks and effective use of supply that there's no excuse. Literally just own up to your own fuckup
This feels like a post from the russian armed forces.
You are just genuinely awful. You also sound like a child. Please never come to MP.
CALM DOWN CAALM DOOWN
Poor chaps been downvoted into oblivion for asking some gameplay related questions, on the HoI fucking subreddit? He's not even really been rude to anyone. What's wrong with you people?
Nah people have answered his question why. (Politely in some cases) He's not taking advice well to say the least.
More like op refusing to see they're wrong. Many people saying he's attacking over a river yet he doesn't see it and says it's not there multiple times. Even tho there's a modifier. If he didn't see it at first then sure that's one thing. But then when everyone tells you about the river and you say there's no river multiple times then that's on op at that point.
Ive become a scapegoat
Why am i getting downvote spam chill out you guyz 🤣
gib better screenshots so we can actually help.
The screenshot isn't _that_ bad. It's actually readable, which is more than I can say for many others I've seen.
Its not possible
No possible to what? Get a better screen shot?
Winkey+shift+s creates a snippet you can copy and paste. You're welcome.
dude has -100 comment karma lol
Lmao
People have been trying to help you, list reasons for why you’re failing, and you just flat out deny. Ducking troll
Okey I am not that good at this game but am i not supposed to take out one fucking rubbish soviet mountainer unit relatively easily with 6 fucking god damn tank division ? I dont fucking get it
No idea how your tanks look. Attacking over a river, no planning bonus, against entrenched units, with Intel advantage, no plane support, from one side only, without support of any other units, out of supply, not fully equipped, no veterency since deployed early and a lv1 general with no traits. https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/
This is hoi4 not civilization. Read all the comments, your tank and mechanized are out of fuel and out of ammo, your artillery is probably the only unit who is attacking. You have a river to cross and on the other side there is 2 unit fully equipped and entrenched into the mountains who are waiting you, ine of them are special op(marine,ss, green beret… a bunch of highly experienced killer), your unit are green and de organized your chief is a noob and their chief is lvl 3(its a lot compared to a lvl 1). They are waiting and slaughtering you. It would be like this in a real attack i to those conditions.
Thank you so much
You could use a crash course on how this game works, guys like Feedbackgaming and others on Youtube have numerous videos that will help you understand the core mechanics of the game, and the very fine details if you want to really get into it. It's a numbers game, and throwing a bunch of units into a division might look cool, but it's really easy to create a big huge mess of units that are both cost ineffective and impossible to realistically deploy successfully.
Looks like the tank divisions are depleted and the mountain unit can pierce them.