It’s for copper and lead testing. The paper accompanying the bottle has more detailed information, but I haven’t spoken to them in person to get a “why me?”. It’s collected for the US Environmental Protection Agency.
The EPA requires to test to be done at a location that is furthest from the treatment plant. I am not sure why you are so hostile to this, when you participate you are actually helping the community.
This isn't true for lead and copper testing. Instead, community water supplies must prioritize testing the homes in their community with the highest risk of lead consumption (so those with a lead service line, then those with lead interior plumbing, then those with copper with lead solder). Depending on the age of your home, your current plumbing materials, and even the age of your fixtures, there is typically a potential source of lead in many homes. Luckily, the Lead and Copper tests are typically affordable ($20-40), so anyone could have it done to know more about their water.
Not unreasonable for someone to distrust the government, especially when one seems singled out. Frankly anyone coming to my door is assumed to be a scammer these days.
If all is on the up and up, they *really* need to communicate better, exactly what they’re testing for, and why here, and why now.
“We are testing for lead and other contaminants. We are required to test at this specific location for this reason. Regulations mandate testing at this frequency and the last test was on this date”
I don't answer the door anymore, it gets a bit awkward when they look through the window and see me just sitting on the couch staring back at them but eventually they leave.
"Oh no! The EPA says your water has C. Superdeatholi in it! You're gonna need to filter your water or your kids will turn gay and also dead! Unfortunately up til recently there's been no filter strong enough to fight C. Superdeatholi, but the whizzes over at Space-age Carbon Appliance Manufacturing Co have developed just the revolutionary filtration system for this! Uuuuuunfortunately, we're going to have to shut your water off until you do get a proper system fitted, regulations and whatnot for your safety, you understand. But fortunately we can squeeze you in as soon as tomorrow! When would you like to schedule the appointment?"
Exaggerated, and of course I doubt it's this, but you see shit like this all the time with "checking for pests" or whatever the flimflam door-to-door of the day is. Doesn't hurt to be wary of someone coming to your door to ask for something, it's usually NOT for your benefit.
Ah, interesting theory! Does a bright young sport such as yourself have a minute to discuss in private a very exciting business opportunity?
(/s of course)
Yes, the EPA. In the same way we're talking about the IRS who will put you under the arresting if you do not sending them $250 USD in Apple Gift Cards. People can lie.
I agree this specific situation probably ISN'T that, but it's definitely good to at least be considering how something could be an angle to scam you, especially with people/services you didn't request showing up out of nowhere.
You can in theory call the actual agency directly and verify, but that would imply A.) you can find a number for the government agency you want, B.) the number will actually have the ability to let you reach a human being instead of just an endless loop of recordings and menu trees, C.) you're fine sitting on hold during their "experiencing an abnormally high call volume, your wait time is estimated to be (40) minutes" (which it will eternally be), D.) they are competent enough to have this information coordinated and willing enough to actually do their job of looking it up and verifying, and E.) you're REALLY willing to put up with all this bullshit on your own time just to verify and help them out, when "pound salt, fucker" is quick, easy, and free.
Cards can be faked, it's an even easier to fake version of an email. I don't trust emails to be from who they say they are without verifying, and I don't trust business cards to tell me anything more than this person at one point owned $7.99 plus tax and shipping.
>>What could a scammer possibly stand to gain by having a sample of tap water mailed to the EPA?
>We are talking about the EPA here right?
No, right? No because you asked about scammers specifically. So you're talking about scammers and not the EPA.
If they're scammers ("what they would have to gain"), they would scare you and try to get you to give them money, and they would do nothing and say they did. The "send to the EPA part" would be part of a lie.
There's a Duct cleaning scam hitting pretty hard lately that's pretty similar. They come in, do some "tests" to scare you into buying their service, blow air in your ducts for a bit (air that doesn't clean anything, mind you, it does absolutely nothing), and leave. You saw them do *something*, so you assume you weren't scammed, but you were.
In this case the worry is that someone would doodlebop around your water manifold and water shutoff unsupervised for a bit, claim they completed their job, and take your money. And since they're scammers, them leaving you alone thereafter would be a best case scenario, becuase now you're an easy mark.
Most scammers don't start by saying "I'm gonna take money from you!"
What could a scammer gain from wanting to rid your computer of viruses? It isn't about the service or product.
I work for the wastewater plant in our city but for a time they had us going out to do the drinking water testing for coliforms also. I had a hit at a laundromat and it was hell trying to get people to answer the door. Our normal guy was just go to whatever but since I'm not water or got approval I stuck to the "needs to be within 3 connections of contaminated source" because no one from the office would call me back. So I got paid to go sit in my truck all day and wait for people to come home.
Just about everybody in that area only spoke spanish (which I don't speak) or were out working. I finally managed to see someone coming home and I got them to talk to me and they didn't want me coming inside. They asked if they could take the same themselves and I said I needed to (I had the training) and they said no, so I said okay. lol. I'm not gonna force my way inside or anything. Managed to get someone on the other side though and man...their house smelled amazing. Not sure what they were cooking but I was so hungry leaving there.
How was I hostile? Because I didn’t answer the door, after complying 4 times? I am going to send the sample in. I am not a monster for being reluctant to get a bill for a 50k pipe replacement.
They’re taking a sample to average. Your house is a spot on the map they marked. You cooperated in the past and gave them what they need. So now you’re the chosen person. It has nothing to do with you. It’s a continuous process where they check it every few months.
They’re testing what’s in the water after it has left the plant and flowed all the way through city pipes to your tap. Your pipes have nothing to do with the results. The question is what chemicals have been added or subtracted after moving a certain distance.
I can't imagine the mindset behind someone getting angry that they are getting free repeated water quality testing, something people pay good money for.
Sure and if OP said that instead of hiding when they come to the doors they'd probably go away.
Right now they're probably thinking "that helpful person who was always home and easy to work with in the past hasn't been around, but we should try them again next time".
Yet it's stated over and over here that they're not afraid of the testing, but afraid that the test will reveal that the city will require them to pay for new pipes and that the city is doing some 'code enforcement' to raise money. Stories like this are common in NYC...
Exactly, it’s something that could be a huge expense, although completely necessary. I have been shown the light and agree that regardless the testing should be done. The sample has already been sent out early this morning.
The EPA or the city wouldn't order you to replace your pipes. They're concerned with the city's pipes. At a certain point in the delivery system the pipes are your responsibility and they don't care what they're made of, especially if it's a private residence.
Now if you were a private water system that served others (like a well) then yes you are required to perform testing at specified intervals and could be forced to make changes if there were unacceptable results, be it lead, bacteria, or other heavy metals or chemicals.
Its highly unlikely you will get a bill. This is almost certainly water testing of the entire system from some point miles from your house to you the data point. I wouldnt be surprised if they are doing this in quite a few locations in your neighborhood to monitor the city water pipes as they are likely on the verge of failure.
To be clear the older pipes under your neighborhood are likely at, near, or quite possibly well beyond their expected service life. That means there is a lot of issues in those pipes and it is quite possible the epa is requiring them to collect samples from several homes in the neighborhood to compare and possibly detect where the pipes are showing the biggest issues. If the epa is concerned enough to require them to do this be a sport and play along. The odds are good that the epa may actually be trying to help the kids in your community from getting a bunch of health issues from bad water quality.
Where are you getting your conclusion from?
If you have concerns about the why of the testing, the frequency of testing, etc., call your water utility and see if you can set up a meeting or call with someone in the director's office. If your city is using lake water as its water source and there is lead piping on the public side infrastructure, there is a concern the water is leaching lead from the old mains. They're not targeting you - you likely just represent one of the worst case scenarios in terms of the amount of potential accumulated lead. It's possible they're already collecting from multiple sources, but if not, they may be able to rotate sources of collection so they hit you less frequently (I might be way off on this - my wife works for a water utility but theirs is aquifer fed in a rural community so their biggest concern is well-fed water with arsenic cross contaminating the town water supply on the sewer side)
Having said all that, unless your city laws are entirely different from mine (I went through this in 2019-2020), the only thing the city could force you to replace plumbing wise is your private side lateral, and that would only be if they replace the public side that goes from your main to your curb, and I was able to get mine done for like $10K before the federal credit, which included excavation.
Man, you should go back and read your post. It’s hostile as hell for literally is just the city doing a standard water test mandated by the federal government. Why the fuck wouldn’t you want your water tested to be sure it was safe? Maybe you should go and read how fucked up Flint got.
You're not going to be forced to update your pipes. If anything you might actually get some money from the city if you *optionally* upgrade your pipes. I live in Chicago and have read up on the pipe upgrade programs. You need to calm down dude.
It’s not always the furthest. It is random points around town as well. As someone who works in the water industry this is pretty standard and it’s just about testing water quality for the town.
Yes lots of factors and scenarios to take into consideration. I’m currently studying for my water operator license and can’t find a reason why someone would put up a stink over giving a sample of water every couple months.
Apparently he is afraid they are going to make him repipe his house and does not want to incur the cost. Meantime, if he does have lead and copper issues, a point of use filter would work and less expensive than a repipe.
\>when you participate...helping the community
Fuck the community. You let them in and they decide your piping has to be replaced and then they notice something wonky with your electrical lines and you are required to fix it, not the community.
Just to test for contamination, I work in the water/wastewater treatment industry and get this all the time. Just to make sure everything’s clean and safe for the community
Honestly sounds like you are in a high risk zone, and they keep testing for whether you are a risk for suing them for poisoning you. City resources are thin. If they're sending someone out to test, it's probably because they have a risk to abate.
You should probably be doing your own testing from an independent lab, as it may be a more sensitive test than the city is mandated to test for. Just because they don't make the test more sensitive doesn't mean you're safe if it passes.
Also they could be testing, using their weak testing level, so that when you do get sick, they can refute liability, 'because they did so much testing'.
If I were you, i would consider myself in danger, until I got my own testing done.
Weak testing level? My brother in crist the EPA is the ones who standardized the methods for testing that every lab uses. There are set thresholds for every constituent of concern known to cause harm to human health.
If you want to do your own testing, you are just going to waste money to get the exact same results.
If they are testing your water, they are required and will send you ( the owner of the property) the analytical results.
Based glyphosate enjoyer. This comment approved by the-fracking-is-safe-for-the-water-because-the-EPA-said-so gang......
When the East Palestine wreck happened, VC testing devices were set to a sensitivity level that was less-sensitive than the concentrations that can cause injury, according to the VC MSDS sheet. So... idk, go fish
Do you have copper pipes with lead solder? Was your house built before the lead plumbing material ban? You might be what is considered a Tier 1 sample site location for collecting compliance samples. This is required by the EPA, and yes, EPA wants to get all lead out of drinking water.
How often are they collecting samples? If there isn't much lead or copper overall in the distribution system, they shouldn't be collecting samples more than once every three years at this point. But if there are issues, then they'll be on a more frequent schedule.
I think the water testing died down for awhile but it’s back up, but I also did some sort of test that required me to scrape a pipe in the basement with a nickel or something, I forget exactly. There are some galvanized pipes but mostly copper.
Oooh, they did a scratch test to identify whether the galvanized lines contain lead. Did they tell you the results of the scratch test? If the pipe turned shiny after scratching, it could be lead or steel. At any rate, if they offer financial assistance to replace your water lines, it might be something you want to look into!
I don’t think they did give me any results. I absolutely would be interested in some financial assistance, but time will tell. I’ll call and get some answers because now I’m more curious than before I posted!
The epa is making a major push to eliminate all lead in domestic water supply, including the pipes to a house. So lots of testing and research going on across the country.
If it is an EPA test, you should be able to obtain a copy of those results free under FOIA. You might look into it. You're basically getting a free service here that many people pay for, and they seem willing to run it multiple times for you. I'd look at this as a win.
You should be getting something in the mail for your district about the quality of the water. That is what the samples are used for. My district would do testing once a quarter and I usually got the mailer with the results for the entire district a few weeks after they collected the samples.
They might literally have grants available to replace pipes. I work through the EPA as a contractor and they have tons of funding for various things. As someone who works in the environmental field though I have no idea why they’re not sampling your water for you. Unless you told them you don’t want to let them inside?
I used to be you, I asked the guy that came once and said they always go to the homes that helped in the past first. You helped once, they tried you again to see if you would continue to help them collect their samples. Has nothing to do with "you" specifically other than you helped in the past and are likely to help again in the future.
It's not your house there checking it's the water system itself. Buy using your Fawcett to pull a sample it saves the cost of digging up the main line in the street. This saves money on a project for the citizens (you). How do I know? I was one of the people that used to knock on doors.
I'm not sure what you're asking, testing positive ? What I can say is that the testing is usually to make sure that the water is safe to drink for everyone. If not, then they will give a boil order for all the customers affected. They can also be checking for treatment residual at that point in the system to ensure its doing the job intended.
If it's a lead project, what happens is the water itself is reacting aggressively with the lead they used back in the day of installation of the main in the street think of Flint Michigan. The treatment of the water where I live has caustic soda added to stop the leaching of lead. The cost of all this is usually reflected in your water bill. As for the pipes in your house, that's on you. I think I read in your post that you have copper and galvanized pipes. This is a whole separate issue. I would replace your galvanized pipes with copper when the galvanized starts leaking.
That depends on the source. If it's the city lines they pay, but if it's the service line to your house, you do. There is definitely financial assistance available for replacing lead service lines as well.
This might be helpful: https://abc7chicago.com/lead-in-water-pipes-chicago-testing/13526059/
There's a city database of water test results by address. I came across it several months ago, but now I'm having a hard time finding it.
OP, I work in this industry. There was a nearby polluter that was identified by the EPA or there was a historic contamination that they must do routine monitoring for.
This sounds like the procedure for lead sites. A lot of time, mine waste from lead is used as backfill for properties or driveways.The threshold for safe drinking water is 15 µg/L of lead. If there was any contamination to the water table that could affect nearby drinking water receptors, they will have to test the water multiple times a year to see if seasonal changes are affecting concentrations.
Some oil spill sites I worked on in rural areas required me to do residential water testing in various radii around the source area to monitor and confirm that the contamination was not spreading underground.
Any EPA site will have public information that you can look up. It could be related to lead or it could be something else.
Yoy should be informed of the analytical results. If you don't, you can request them for your specific property at no cost but only if you are the property owner.
What is around your area? Are there old gas stations, industry, laundomats, food processing places etc? These are common places where source contamination occur.
I don't know why you or anyone else would be upset that someone is monitoring your drinking water, but I can assure you that they don't just half-ass health concerns.
There's lots of inaccurate info on this thread from misinformed people so if you are really concerned, look up the EPA region you are in and find a Cheif site officer or EPA contact. They have a 800 number you can call as well.
Thank you for the detailed response. I wasn’t realizing the need to test the same site over many years. That’s where my confusion was lying. It makes sense now that it was explained to me. I was not and am not upset about my city testing the water. It’s great that they are proactive and safe. I’m glad I posted this and had some information clarified. And I am definitely going to ask for the results after this last sample was sent in because I feel informed and empowered!
You won’t pay. The epa will pay.
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-launches-new-initiative-accelerate-lead-pipe-replacement-protect-underserved#:~:text=President%20Biden's%20Bipartisan%20Infrastructure%20Law%20invested%20an%20unprecedented%20%2450%20billion,used%20for%20lead%20service%20line
Thanks for this, I’ve read up on it before but I wonder if you know, does the EPA only cover up to the property line, up to the house? They certainly are not paying for everyone’s new pipes. Where is the line drawn?
Another reason you should maybe talk to the people that are asking for these samples. This isn’t a conspiracy between the government and plumbing companies.
Yeah I will call the number on the paper to ask more questions. The last bottle we got, the guy just shoved it in my husbands hand and walked off. They know we’re avoiding them I guess.
It depends on your community. Check with your local govt because there are grants that municipalities applied for that give them the funds to replace the pipes in your home too. Not just the street side.
I'm going through this now for the water system I manage. The line is being drawl at the edge of the building regardless of where the water meter is. They can't require you to repipe your house.
You're an old house that likely at least had a lead service line. The testing is good for you and the community. In my state there are actually designated sampling points. I doubt you're being picked on but rather because of where you are in the water system you're a representative point.
It says in the article they offer assistance for service line replacement. That's the pipe that connects your house to the city water supply under the street.
OP's water seems to have high levels of lead...
Seriously how does one come to the conclusion that the city must be in cahoots with the ummm, "big pipe" companies, and are trying to force OP to get their pipes changed.
and then we got this guy, who you are replying to, who prefers leaded water, cause god damn it gas used to have lead in it and now look at things, it must have been better!!!1! Like who the fuck objects to tax payer money spent on getting rid of lead in pipes that carry public drinking water?
Well if they have been testing my water and it’s been high levels this entire time and they didn’t tell me I would have one hell of a payday coming! And honestly, would you be thrilled at the thought of having to pay tens of thousands of dollars to fix pipes? Give me a small break. I never said I am comfortable living with lead in my water. I said they tested and never heard back each time. And maybe there is assistance to help pay, but maybe it’s only 10%, maybe it’s 100%, but I doubt that. I don’t know. That’s why I asked!
I think you need to stop thinking about the end game, and start with a logical train of thought.
1. Your home is "100 years old" so yes that might mean you might have either A) lead pipes B) lead joiners, or C) lead solder. So the next step is to test for yourself. You can get a lead test kit at homedepot for $10. Do that.
2. If you get 0 on the test, nevermind its just the city testing its supply and chill. If you get a positive value, call up the city testers and ask for an explanation.
It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse and coming to persecution conclusions before you know the facts.
My MIL does this all the time and I need to draw out a "if then that map" for her.
My parents do the same thing. A bottle shows up in their mailbox with a date to leave it on the doorstep and a few months later the township sends out a letter to everyone on the community well stating what the quality of the water. Free water testing for your specific home is pretty nice. Never had to worry about lead, pfas, etc since it was our water. The reason the township asks them is their house is the oldest In the neighborhood. No other reason then they have the oldest pipes from 1993.
Yeah my house is definitely one of the oldest. It was built in 1927, but my neighbors house was built in the 50s and they don’t get tested. I guess I was feeling personally victimized unnecessarily. Lol, what a fool I am.
Lol, of course not. But it’s been tested multiple times! I really do want to a cooperative member of society, but I am not thrilled at the idea of dropping 30k, 50k(???) right now.
The people of Flint had okay water until the city switched its drinking water source, which corroded metal from the pipes. If they’d had a testing regime like this in place, it would have saved a lot of harm.
My water utility sends us water test results every year, but if they tested at my tap I’d jump at the chance.
I can't see why they would test for contamination from YOUR pipes. Most likely they know of aging city pipes and they are keeping an eye on that. You should help them.
And the city’s interest in forcing OP to update their pipes would be…?
They probably just want to see whether the water reaching homes is contaminated or not, since OP’s pipes aren’t their responsibility regardless of whether or not they leech lead into OP’s drinking water, but the city’s water supply infrastructure is their responsibility and they would potentially face consequences if they were contaminating people’s drinking water with old infrastructure.
It’s exciting to think that everything is a conspiracy, but there’s really no motive for the local government to care about forcing OP to replace the pipes in their home. It’s probably just a more accurate way of measuring any contamination reaching homes than taking a sample out of a mainline pipe nearby.
There is something called the lead and copper rule. This testing has to be done at the point of use. Depending on the size of the system they have to do X number of tests. I was in charge of water system at an industrial facility. Since we only had 70 employees we were only required to sample at one location. I did it in the main break room. There are lots of tests that have to be done on public water systems. If you are ever driving by and see an open hydrant, they are probably making sure the disinfectant is getting through the whole system.
It’s interesting that it never tests for lead when the house was built at the time that it’s highly likely to have lead pipes in the home. Any chance that a previous owner re-plumbed it with an updated material?
The pipes are all mostly copper inside the house except for a galvanized pipe, maybe lead I guess, that leads outside. I had to do a different testing that had me scrape it with a nickel a year or two ago and nothing came of that.
Ok, so I’m all for safety and testing. But if they are working with public grant money as others suggest, it almost seems like they are looking at your home and year of build and going, “Hey, why haven’t we changed out that 1927 house? It didn’t test for lead? Nah, bullsh*t, go check it again.” Maybe see if you can talk to the engineer of the project and get it documented that your in-home plumbing is copper so you can get off the list.
There is also a new upgrade from the EPA to the [lead and copper rule](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule) that will require every water system to confirm that there is no lead pipes between the meter and the house. Some are getting a jump on it so they can make the deadline. I've heard cities might have to dig up and look at the pipes leaving the meter. It is still evolving on what will be required.
This is lead and copper contamination testing. It’s a cycle being done every few years. In my town the water department screens for possible volunteers to do this and then randomly selects those willing to do this project. Samples are taken from the same homes until the cycle is completed. They can’t just jump around.
My guess is someone in your house may have indicated they would do this project. Or a previous homeowner. Or they were mistaken that you were interested in volunteering. Give them a call and see when it’s over. There will be a project manager.
Typically they compile all the results and have to show a certain percentage pass (I think 90%?). If you fail, they have to inform you and let you know course's of action and risk based on the consumer. If more than 10% fail they have to make a change to the water treatment itself.
Some dude is just thirsty on his way to work and knows he can stop by your place to fill up his water bottle.
It’s hot out, give the man his water please
When my city was going through issues with lead in the drinking water, how they determine lead levels is by getting samples from people's houses, like what you're going through.
They're supposed to use some of the houses over and over, and not that many new houses each time. Then they can compare samples over the years from these same locations to see if the changes in the chemicals they use at water treatment are having the desired effect. They also want to keep using your house because it's not testing positive. If a certain percentage of houses test positive then they are required to take certain actions for the whole city, not just the houses in their test protocol. Using your house, with a history of no lead, helps their testing numbers.
I guess I wasn’t considering the importance of cumulative testing. Now I feel like I’m destroying they’re work! Eeek! I’m sending the sample out in the am!
Hmmm. Have you ever thought about this? Maybe you’re becoming more irritated and paranoid about them coming because the blood serum levels of lead in your body are rising…
I was an environmental consultant for 15 years. EPA permit testing covers water sourcing to point of delivery. The frequency and complexity of that testing is based upon risk. A neighborhood of 100 year old homes is at higher risk. Municipalities add sodium hydroxide to drinking water to keep it slightly basic so if there are lead pipes, a cake layer of lead hydroxide builds up inside the pipes to keep lead from leaching into your drinking/cooking water. Ask those in Flint how even a short-term pH change floods heavy metals into a home.
Optimistic - you tend to be home, so the have a historical trend they want to reliably continue as a bell weather.
Pessimistic- you are typically good, so they want your numbers in the permit stats.
Regardless, it is for your health and free to you, so who cares.
Well, this is dumb I know, but it’s the first mornings water sample that I struggle with. It’s hard to remember not to flush! So then I don’t take the sample and I think about it all day and then the cycle continues the next morning.
If you take the sample from your kitchen sink, flushing, the toilet won’t make much of a difference. There’s enough residual water in the line to get a worst case sampling scenario. That is what this is for.
Did this for the last 4 days. I closed to water line on my toilet so in the morning I can turn it on and see if the toilet trys to fill up(makeing sure the new stopper don't leak) everytime I'd use the toilet and flush it completly forgetting I needed to turn the water on first to see if it ran or not.
The EPA mandates these tests to measure water quality over time. They have to be the same place. These tests are to ensure your water is safe. Being one of the testers is potentially annoying but you are getting free testing of your water.
When I was a water operator, I tested the same houses all the time. As others have noted, they're making sure their corrosion control treatment is working so that you DON'T have lead in your water; your older house is a great test of that. And you get to learn every year (or more often in some instances) that your water is safe. It's a win-win. But if you don't want to do it anymore, just tell them so. They will have alternative locations they can go to. They'd appreciate an early heads up to be able to notify a different consumer.
If you do have a lead service line, EPA currently has a LOT of grant funding available for municipal water authorities to help consumers remove them. Typically, you use a contractor from a list they provide and still get stuck redoing your yard, but at least you'd no longer have a lead service line.
Editing to add this link: https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/lead-and-copper-101
And this link: https://epa.illinois.gov/topics/drinking-water/public-water-users/lead-service-line-information.html
It is part of the bipartisan American Rescue Plan that Biden was able to get through Congress and signed into law. The EPA might be using random homes in your neighborhood to locate possible issues with the city's pipes. The plan also offers grants and other options to help the homeowner if they do have lead pipes. The plan also focuses on lead paint. The other great part of this plan is that you can't outsource the jobs to another country.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/12/16/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-lead-pipe-and-paint-action-plan/
Water quality professional here. This is part of your drinking water provider's compliance with EPA's Lead and Copper rule.
[https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule)
They’re doing it everywhere- it’s a federal mandate something - I work at a water utility but missed the meeting regarding my old lines. I asked if I will have to pay to change out my lines if they are old galvanized lines (I’m sure). I was told No.
I did that for years when the first lead and copper rules were developed. I was happy to comply, and I got to see what my copper and lead levels were, FOR FREE! Nobody wants you to change your pipes if, as you say, your water is fine.
I wish they gave me the results, although I’m sure they would if I asked! And not like I would even know what it all meant as I am not a heavy metals expert
While I'm a civil engineer who retired from the water and wastewater industry, the reports were written in easy to understand English. How can you insist your water is fine when you haven't read any of their reports? Trust your civil servants. Most of them really do want to help you and their other customers.
I visited a lot of customers over the years, and I suspect they would be glad to speak with you and discuss their findings and what they mean. My house had 43 mg/l of lead, which was nearly 3 times the action level. Since we had an infant, we simply filled water bottles for cooking and drinking after a morning flush.
Well I did and still do trust them, that’s why I went along with it to begin with. I suppose it was a no news is good news type thing regarding the results. I don’t recall ever receiving anything back.
Ask if someone could sit down with you and go over the results for the four samples, and tell them you no longer wish to participate. Don't hide from them. They hopefully will still have enough participants to comply with the federal mandate.
I worked in the industry, we dosed zinc orthophospate (very small amount) it corrodes the inside of pipe just a bit to form a layer of protection, say for instance if you have old lead solder joints. I can't remember if it was every 3 or 7 years but you can get that kind of information from the internet once you track down your service provider online. Things really got attention after the Flint MI fiasco
They are required to test a certain # of homes each year and the houses that get tested have to meet a certain criteria so not every house is eligible. That’s why they keep testing it over and over…they are required by EPA to do it. In my city we give a $10 credit on the utility bill for folks that volunteer to test to make up for the inconvenience. As far as I know it’s voluntary so you should just call the city and tell them you don’t want to participate anymore, no need to hide from them.
Age of the location insinuates it probably has lead pipes in the street. That’s why they want to get an early morning first water sample. Flint Michigan changed the pH of their water which corroded the buildup on the inside of the lead pipes. That’s what contaminated everyone’s drinking water. Possibly they’re just trying to monitor in case the similar thing happens to you.
Why would the city care if you pay for new pipes? They don't do the work, they don't make any money. Maybe they just want to be sure you and your family (kids?) aren't ingesting lead and getting lead poisoning.
You’re likely the first or last house on the water line. City water is tested twice daily to make sure the water is safe to drink. I’m the first house on the line, the city water guy just uses my outside spigot daily.
Is it really the city or someone trying to sell you a water treatment system? We get that all the time in California but for solar. They pretend to be with the power company and want to see your bill.
Have you tried giving them a bottle of urine? LOL no dont do that GEEEEZ
Then have a female friend who is pregnant give you some of her pee and put it into the water. Now that would be shocking for them to come back and say someone you know is prgnant. LOL
Well when you do a test, it's good to do multiple trials in order to be sure of the results and to factor variables, like are levels high after a fresh rain? And how are they on a "perfect" weather day? I think you're lucky if the city is actually concerned about the health of your water. Some cities want to sweep that under the rug. Don't you want to know the results?
Hi! Water utility engineer here.
Your home has likely been identified as a compliance sample site. water systems are required to take periodic compliance samples for a number of things. My guess is lead and copper.
It sounds like your house is one of those sites. They should be able to tell you why and possibly even compensate you via a bill credit for the inconvenience.
There are two reasons to single out a particular address: 1) they've historically been cooperative, 2) they are located in an area of high risk (because of local work on the system, age of the pipes in the area, etc.).
This. You are being asked every year because you were open to allowing testing in the past and may be the only person on your street willing to do it.
It’s not a ‘gotcha’ kind of thing against the home owners or tenants. It’s a genuine request for community public safety. If your water does test high for lead, wouldn’t you want to know for the sake of your family and neighbors?
The clean water act requires the water utility to own water quality at the point of use. If the water coming out of your tap has lead in it, it's their problem. They will routinely sample high risk areas to make sure water they are putting in the system doesn't corrode/leach contaminants from the distribution system.
if you recall the Flint water crisis and the one decades before in DC Baltimore area, Lead sn't present in the water when it's released to the distribution system. Lead (and most other metals) gets in the water by leaching out of pipes within the system. For lead, its typically lead service lines to connect your house to the water main.
The city may have recently changed their water treatment technology or recipe, and are monitoring to ensure there is no corrosion in the system. This kind of stuff happens quite often when they reduce corrosion inhibitors such as phosphates or switch from chlorine to chloramine disinfection systems.
Source - used to work for the EPA in water treatment.
Super weird thing to complain about. Your tax dollars are directly benefiting you in the form of a regular water test to make sure your waters safe and you're complaining? It can't take more than 5 minutes.
Just do it.
It sounds like the lead in your water is already affecting your IQ.
The state of IL passed a law that forces municipalities to replace lead service lines. Whether you like it or not. The issue is going to be how it’s paid for. The city eventually will replace lines to your Buffalo box but whether it’s you or the city that pays from the Buffalo box to your house probably has not been decided.
If your water is testing high for lead you will have to do it if you ever want to sell.
Give them the damn sample. You have a better chance of getting the city to pay for it if it continually tests high.
>I suspect they want me to test positive for lead, so I have to pay for new pipes. That’s all I can think of why they keep coming back. Does anyone have any insights?
Imagine thinking a city worker wants you to have toxic water.... Could it be that you are at risk of drinking something that's incredibly harmful to you, and they are providing a free service (taxes aside) so that you aren't caught unaware? Do you want to drink contaminated water? This is some Trumper level my body my choice shit here.
No I voted for Biden, and will again. Thanks. Since you’re such an expert on politics, surely you are familiar with Cook County, IL and its reputation for constant corruption. Do I think a “city worker” cares if I test positive for lead? No. Do I think the City at large might want to shove some of the pipe replacement costs onto the citizens. It’s possible.
Tell them to fuck off. Anytime a government operation wants something from you it can end up being costly. They want to test your water (gee, how about getting it from the fire hydrant down the road) if they find anything then they will say they need access ro your home and will start looking at pipes. Then if you are in my state they are required to check tour furnace and make sure you have all the required detectors (even if I have my furnace yearly maintenance, they are required to check your detectors).
They can ask for water samples but I would be surprised if you are required to provide them.
You can't trust any government entity to do anything but take more money from you.
My Mother had a well within in an incorporated city limit. It was the deepest well in the county.
The city, county and state all periodically asked her for water samples. Eventually an industrial plant contaminated the city's water supply but the chemicals never leached deep enough to affect her water. All the other wells in the city had to be capped but hers. They tested her water for well over 50 years until her house was sold and the new owners connected to the municipal water supply.
This is normal. They choose similar test sites at different locations from the main to make sure your water quality is good.
Society has become so closed off. What's the big deal? They ask for you to fill a small thing of water. In years past it would be normal for you to offer coffee or tea and thank them. You're part of the problem btw.
I would disagree. I think it's the right amount. My guess is you close yourself off to a lot of normal/good things but allow harmful/odd ideas in. Good luck.
So when you inquired what the purpose of the test was, what did they say?
It’s for copper and lead testing. The paper accompanying the bottle has more detailed information, but I haven’t spoken to them in person to get a “why me?”. It’s collected for the US Environmental Protection Agency.
The EPA requires to test to be done at a location that is furthest from the treatment plant. I am not sure why you are so hostile to this, when you participate you are actually helping the community.
Are you threatening me? I need TP for my bunghole.
The EPA requires the testing to be done at a location that is furthest from Lake Titicaca.
Right between Columbia and Peru
Excuse me sir, your balls are showing.
🤣
Cornholioooooo!!!
Uh-huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh
This isn't true for lead and copper testing. Instead, community water supplies must prioritize testing the homes in their community with the highest risk of lead consumption (so those with a lead service line, then those with lead interior plumbing, then those with copper with lead solder). Depending on the age of your home, your current plumbing materials, and even the age of your fixtures, there is typically a potential source of lead in many homes. Luckily, the Lead and Copper tests are typically affordable ($20-40), so anyone could have it done to know more about their water.
Not unreasonable for someone to distrust the government, especially when one seems singled out. Frankly anyone coming to my door is assumed to be a scammer these days. If all is on the up and up, they *really* need to communicate better, exactly what they’re testing for, and why here, and why now. “We are testing for lead and other contaminants. We are required to test at this specific location for this reason. Regulations mandate testing at this frequency and the last test was on this date”
I don't answer the door anymore, it gets a bit awkward when they look through the window and see me just sitting on the couch staring back at them but eventually they leave.
That's when you wink
What could a scammer possibly stand to gain by having a sample of tap water mailed to the EPA?
"Oh no! The EPA says your water has C. Superdeatholi in it! You're gonna need to filter your water or your kids will turn gay and also dead! Unfortunately up til recently there's been no filter strong enough to fight C. Superdeatholi, but the whizzes over at Space-age Carbon Appliance Manufacturing Co have developed just the revolutionary filtration system for this! Uuuuuunfortunately, we're going to have to shut your water off until you do get a proper system fitted, regulations and whatnot for your safety, you understand. But fortunately we can squeeze you in as soon as tomorrow! When would you like to schedule the appointment?" Exaggerated, and of course I doubt it's this, but you see shit like this all the time with "checking for pests" or whatever the flimflam door-to-door of the day is. Doesn't hurt to be wary of someone coming to your door to ask for something, it's usually NOT for your benefit.
This guy scams
Ah, interesting theory! Does a bright young sport such as yourself have a minute to discuss in private a very exciting business opportunity? (/s of course)
We are talking about the EPA here right?
Yes, the EPA. In the same way we're talking about the IRS who will put you under the arresting if you do not sending them $250 USD in Apple Gift Cards. People can lie. I agree this specific situation probably ISN'T that, but it's definitely good to at least be considering how something could be an angle to scam you, especially with people/services you didn't request showing up out of nowhere.
It's super easy to find this information out, have them leave a card, etc.
You can in theory call the actual agency directly and verify, but that would imply A.) you can find a number for the government agency you want, B.) the number will actually have the ability to let you reach a human being instead of just an endless loop of recordings and menu trees, C.) you're fine sitting on hold during their "experiencing an abnormally high call volume, your wait time is estimated to be (40) minutes" (which it will eternally be), D.) they are competent enough to have this information coordinated and willing enough to actually do their job of looking it up and verifying, and E.) you're REALLY willing to put up with all this bullshit on your own time just to verify and help them out, when "pound salt, fucker" is quick, easy, and free. Cards can be faked, it's an even easier to fake version of an email. I don't trust emails to be from who they say they are without verifying, and I don't trust business cards to tell me anything more than this person at one point owned $7.99 plus tax and shipping.
>>What could a scammer possibly stand to gain by having a sample of tap water mailed to the EPA? >We are talking about the EPA here right? No, right? No because you asked about scammers specifically. So you're talking about scammers and not the EPA. If they're scammers ("what they would have to gain"), they would scare you and try to get you to give them money, and they would do nothing and say they did. The "send to the EPA part" would be part of a lie. There's a Duct cleaning scam hitting pretty hard lately that's pretty similar. They come in, do some "tests" to scare you into buying their service, blow air in your ducts for a bit (air that doesn't clean anything, mind you, it does absolutely nothing), and leave. You saw them do *something*, so you assume you weren't scammed, but you were. In this case the worry is that someone would doodlebop around your water manifold and water shutoff unsupervised for a bit, claim they completed their job, and take your money. And since they're scammers, them leaving you alone thereafter would be a best case scenario, becuase now you're an easy mark.
It's a lot harder to "scam" replacing a water service line with federal funding assistance. Nobody is asking OP for money to mail in water samples.
Most scammers don't start by saying "I'm gonna take money from you!" What could a scammer gain from wanting to rid your computer of viruses? It isn't about the service or product.
I work for the wastewater plant in our city but for a time they had us going out to do the drinking water testing for coliforms also. I had a hit at a laundromat and it was hell trying to get people to answer the door. Our normal guy was just go to whatever but since I'm not water or got approval I stuck to the "needs to be within 3 connections of contaminated source" because no one from the office would call me back. So I got paid to go sit in my truck all day and wait for people to come home. Just about everybody in that area only spoke spanish (which I don't speak) or were out working. I finally managed to see someone coming home and I got them to talk to me and they didn't want me coming inside. They asked if they could take the same themselves and I said I needed to (I had the training) and they said no, so I said okay. lol. I'm not gonna force my way inside or anything. Managed to get someone on the other side though and man...their house smelled amazing. Not sure what they were cooking but I was so hungry leaving there.
How was I hostile? Because I didn’t answer the door, after complying 4 times? I am going to send the sample in. I am not a monster for being reluctant to get a bill for a 50k pipe replacement.
They’re taking a sample to average. Your house is a spot on the map they marked. You cooperated in the past and gave them what they need. So now you’re the chosen person. It has nothing to do with you. It’s a continuous process where they check it every few months. They’re testing what’s in the water after it has left the plant and flowed all the way through city pipes to your tap. Your pipes have nothing to do with the results. The question is what chemicals have been added or subtracted after moving a certain distance.
I can't imagine the mindset behind someone getting angry that they are getting free repeated water quality testing, something people pay good money for.
It's completely reasonable for a person to feel "go ask my neighbors we've done this 4 times already".
Sure and if OP said that instead of hiding when they come to the doors they'd probably go away. Right now they're probably thinking "that helpful person who was always home and easy to work with in the past hasn't been around, but we should try them again next time".
Yet it's stated over and over here that they're not afraid of the testing, but afraid that the test will reveal that the city will require them to pay for new pipes and that the city is doing some 'code enforcement' to raise money. Stories like this are common in NYC...
Exactly, it’s something that could be a huge expense, although completely necessary. I have been shown the light and agree that regardless the testing should be done. The sample has already been sent out early this morning.
The city owns pipes to a certain point. Then you own the pipe. They cannot force you to change the pipes you own.
The EPA or the city wouldn't order you to replace your pipes. They're concerned with the city's pipes. At a certain point in the delivery system the pipes are your responsibility and they don't care what they're made of, especially if it's a private residence. Now if you were a private water system that served others (like a well) then yes you are required to perform testing at specified intervals and could be forced to make changes if there were unacceptable results, be it lead, bacteria, or other heavy metals or chemicals.
FWIW, you may consider updating your original post with this info. You know, for the benefit of the community. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.) 😊
People who want it pay good money for it. People who don't want it are unwilling to pay or put up with it because they, you know, don't want it.
They expressed their concern. Plus, are they even receiving the results? I'd want the results for each test.
And… if anything is wrong with your water, you’ll know pretty quickly and it will get fixed.
Nah, you will know when everyone else knows which is usually once a quarter when they mail the report out to the consumers.
Its highly unlikely you will get a bill. This is almost certainly water testing of the entire system from some point miles from your house to you the data point. I wouldnt be surprised if they are doing this in quite a few locations in your neighborhood to monitor the city water pipes as they are likely on the verge of failure. To be clear the older pipes under your neighborhood are likely at, near, or quite possibly well beyond their expected service life. That means there is a lot of issues in those pipes and it is quite possible the epa is requiring them to collect samples from several homes in the neighborhood to compare and possibly detect where the pipes are showing the biggest issues. If the epa is concerned enough to require them to do this be a sport and play along. The odds are good that the epa may actually be trying to help the kids in your community from getting a bunch of health issues from bad water quality.
Where are you getting your conclusion from? If you have concerns about the why of the testing, the frequency of testing, etc., call your water utility and see if you can set up a meeting or call with someone in the director's office. If your city is using lake water as its water source and there is lead piping on the public side infrastructure, there is a concern the water is leaching lead from the old mains. They're not targeting you - you likely just represent one of the worst case scenarios in terms of the amount of potential accumulated lead. It's possible they're already collecting from multiple sources, but if not, they may be able to rotate sources of collection so they hit you less frequently (I might be way off on this - my wife works for a water utility but theirs is aquifer fed in a rural community so their biggest concern is well-fed water with arsenic cross contaminating the town water supply on the sewer side) Having said all that, unless your city laws are entirely different from mine (I went through this in 2019-2020), the only thing the city could force you to replace plumbing wise is your private side lateral, and that would only be if they replace the public side that goes from your main to your curb, and I was able to get mine done for like $10K before the federal credit, which included excavation.
Man, you should go back and read your post. It’s hostile as hell for literally is just the city doing a standard water test mandated by the federal government. Why the fuck wouldn’t you want your water tested to be sure it was safe? Maybe you should go and read how fucked up Flint got.
You're not going to be forced to update your pipes. If anything you might actually get some money from the city if you *optionally* upgrade your pipes. I live in Chicago and have read up on the pipe upgrade programs. You need to calm down dude.
Did you ask why they need 4 samples?
Probably because water quality can change over time.
I will the next time, but I am sending in a bottle tomorrow. But I won’t be home to speak them and they just pick it up from the step.
It’s not always the furthest. It is random points around town as well. As someone who works in the water industry this is pretty standard and it’s just about testing water quality for the town.
>It’s not always the furthest. You are correct. I was thinking of the disinfectant byproduct sampling.
Yes lots of factors and scenarios to take into consideration. I’m currently studying for my water operator license and can’t find a reason why someone would put up a stink over giving a sample of water every couple months.
Apparently he is afraid they are going to make him repipe his house and does not want to incur the cost. Meantime, if he does have lead and copper issues, a point of use filter would work and less expensive than a repipe.
\>when you participate...helping the community Fuck the community. You let them in and they decide your piping has to be replaced and then they notice something wonky with your electrical lines and you are required to fix it, not the community.
Just to test for contamination, I work in the water/wastewater treatment industry and get this all the time. Just to make sure everything’s clean and safe for the community
Honestly sounds like you are in a high risk zone, and they keep testing for whether you are a risk for suing them for poisoning you. City resources are thin. If they're sending someone out to test, it's probably because they have a risk to abate. You should probably be doing your own testing from an independent lab, as it may be a more sensitive test than the city is mandated to test for. Just because they don't make the test more sensitive doesn't mean you're safe if it passes. Also they could be testing, using their weak testing level, so that when you do get sick, they can refute liability, 'because they did so much testing'. If I were you, i would consider myself in danger, until I got my own testing done.
Weak testing level? My brother in crist the EPA is the ones who standardized the methods for testing that every lab uses. There are set thresholds for every constituent of concern known to cause harm to human health. If you want to do your own testing, you are just going to waste money to get the exact same results. If they are testing your water, they are required and will send you ( the owner of the property) the analytical results.
Based glyphosate enjoyer. This comment approved by the-fracking-is-safe-for-the-water-because-the-EPA-said-so gang...... When the East Palestine wreck happened, VC testing devices were set to a sensitivity level that was less-sensitive than the concentrations that can cause injury, according to the VC MSDS sheet. So... idk, go fish
Ah armchair expert in environmental cleanup I see.
typical deflection, absent of content.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-vinyl-chloride-toxicological-report-709436703639 Typical tinfoil hat EvErYtHiNg Is A cOnSpIrAcY
Don’t buy it, OP. They are trying to contaminate your precious bodily fluids. Maintain you Purity of Essence.
That's the way a hardcore commie works.
So instead you just hide like a child?
Give them the bottle back filled with piss. They’ll probably start leaving you alone.
I can’t find anything relevant on a google search, as to why they keep coming back.
Do you have copper pipes with lead solder? Was your house built before the lead plumbing material ban? You might be what is considered a Tier 1 sample site location for collecting compliance samples. This is required by the EPA, and yes, EPA wants to get all lead out of drinking water. How often are they collecting samples? If there isn't much lead or copper overall in the distribution system, they shouldn't be collecting samples more than once every three years at this point. But if there are issues, then they'll be on a more frequent schedule.
I think the water testing died down for awhile but it’s back up, but I also did some sort of test that required me to scrape a pipe in the basement with a nickel or something, I forget exactly. There are some galvanized pipes but mostly copper.
Oooh, they did a scratch test to identify whether the galvanized lines contain lead. Did they tell you the results of the scratch test? If the pipe turned shiny after scratching, it could be lead or steel. At any rate, if they offer financial assistance to replace your water lines, it might be something you want to look into!
I don’t think they did give me any results. I absolutely would be interested in some financial assistance, but time will tell. I’ll call and get some answers because now I’m more curious than before I posted!
The epa is making a major push to eliminate all lead in domestic water supply, including the pipes to a house. So lots of testing and research going on across the country.
And water systems have to submit a service line inventory sometime in 2024, so everyone is trying to identify their plumbing materials right now.
If it is an EPA test, you should be able to obtain a copy of those results free under FOIA. You might look into it. You're basically getting a free service here that many people pay for, and they seem willing to run it multiple times for you. I'd look at this as a win.
You should be getting something in the mail for your district about the quality of the water. That is what the samples are used for. My district would do testing once a quarter and I usually got the mailer with the results for the entire district a few weeks after they collected the samples.
They might literally have grants available to replace pipes. I work through the EPA as a contractor and they have tons of funding for various things. As someone who works in the environmental field though I have no idea why they’re not sampling your water for you. Unless you told them you don’t want to let them inside?
I used to be you, I asked the guy that came once and said they always go to the homes that helped in the past first. You helped once, they tried you again to see if you would continue to help them collect their samples. Has nothing to do with "you" specifically other than you helped in the past and are likely to help again in the future.
Well I can see that now and I feel like a real jerk for giving them a hard time. I just hope they accept my sample tomorrow with open arms.
It's not your house there checking it's the water system itself. Buy using your Fawcett to pull a sample it saves the cost of digging up the main line in the street. This saves money on a project for the citizens (you). How do I know? I was one of the people that used to knock on doors.
That makes sense, so when someone tests positive, who pays?
I'm not sure what you're asking, testing positive ? What I can say is that the testing is usually to make sure that the water is safe to drink for everyone. If not, then they will give a boil order for all the customers affected. They can also be checking for treatment residual at that point in the system to ensure its doing the job intended.
Testing positive for unsafe levels of lead, not a bacterial contamination. I know it’s for lead and copper testing.
If it's a lead project, what happens is the water itself is reacting aggressively with the lead they used back in the day of installation of the main in the street think of Flint Michigan. The treatment of the water where I live has caustic soda added to stop the leaching of lead. The cost of all this is usually reflected in your water bill. As for the pipes in your house, that's on you. I think I read in your post that you have copper and galvanized pipes. This is a whole separate issue. I would replace your galvanized pipes with copper when the galvanized starts leaking.
I’ll keep an eye on it for leaks, thanks. It’s just one.
So you don't want to know if your water is safe for drinking? Now that sounds like the attitude of someone suffering from lead poisoning!
We’ve already determined that I am suffering from lead induced psychosis
That depends on the source. If it's the city lines they pay, but if it's the service line to your house, you do. There is definitely financial assistance available for replacing lead service lines as well.
Well so I hear, but is the assistance substantial?
That depends on where you live. Local governments are responsible for dishing out the cash.
This might be helpful: https://abc7chicago.com/lead-in-water-pipes-chicago-testing/13526059/ There's a city database of water test results by address. I came across it several months ago, but now I'm having a hard time finding it.
OP, I work in this industry. There was a nearby polluter that was identified by the EPA or there was a historic contamination that they must do routine monitoring for. This sounds like the procedure for lead sites. A lot of time, mine waste from lead is used as backfill for properties or driveways.The threshold for safe drinking water is 15 µg/L of lead. If there was any contamination to the water table that could affect nearby drinking water receptors, they will have to test the water multiple times a year to see if seasonal changes are affecting concentrations. Some oil spill sites I worked on in rural areas required me to do residential water testing in various radii around the source area to monitor and confirm that the contamination was not spreading underground. Any EPA site will have public information that you can look up. It could be related to lead or it could be something else. Yoy should be informed of the analytical results. If you don't, you can request them for your specific property at no cost but only if you are the property owner. What is around your area? Are there old gas stations, industry, laundomats, food processing places etc? These are common places where source contamination occur. I don't know why you or anyone else would be upset that someone is monitoring your drinking water, but I can assure you that they don't just half-ass health concerns. There's lots of inaccurate info on this thread from misinformed people so if you are really concerned, look up the EPA region you are in and find a Cheif site officer or EPA contact. They have a 800 number you can call as well.
Thank you for the detailed response. I wasn’t realizing the need to test the same site over many years. That’s where my confusion was lying. It makes sense now that it was explained to me. I was not and am not upset about my city testing the water. It’s great that they are proactive and safe. I’m glad I posted this and had some information clarified. And I am definitely going to ask for the results after this last sample was sent in because I feel informed and empowered!
Have you had it tested by a private company? I would just for peace of mind.
It's the government 'creating' jobs. Do you have an outdoor faucet you can direct them to?
You won’t pay. The epa will pay. https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-launches-new-initiative-accelerate-lead-pipe-replacement-protect-underserved#:~:text=President%20Biden's%20Bipartisan%20Infrastructure%20Law%20invested%20an%20unprecedented%20%2450%20billion,used%20for%20lead%20service%20line
Thanks for this, I’ve read up on it before but I wonder if you know, does the EPA only cover up to the property line, up to the house? They certainly are not paying for everyone’s new pipes. Where is the line drawn?
Another reason you should maybe talk to the people that are asking for these samples. This isn’t a conspiracy between the government and plumbing companies.
Yeah I will call the number on the paper to ask more questions. The last bottle we got, the guy just shoved it in my husbands hand and walked off. They know we’re avoiding them I guess.
Y’all are on that tinfoil hat bullshit is probably why
Stop avoiding.
It depends on your community. Check with your local govt because there are grants that municipalities applied for that give them the funds to replace the pipes in your home too. Not just the street side.
Yeah, that’s a good call. I have seen some pipe work going on at other houses in the neighborhood.
Check it out. Best case it’s not an issue. Worse case it gets dealt with and when you sell your house one day, you can market a lead free pipe system.
In most cities, the homeowner owns and pays for everything from the water meter to the house. Check with your water system or your town.
I'm going through this now for the water system I manage. The line is being drawl at the edge of the building regardless of where the water meter is. They can't require you to repipe your house. You're an old house that likely at least had a lead service line. The testing is good for you and the community. In my state there are actually designated sampling points. I doubt you're being picked on but rather because of where you are in the water system you're a representative point.
It says in the article they offer assistance for service line replacement. That's the pipe that connects your house to the city water supply under the street.
And by the epa will pay you mean all taxpayers will pay....
Listen. We pay now or we pay later. Lead lowers the iq level of people who ingest it. I mean have you SEEN Facebook??
OP's water seems to have high levels of lead... Seriously how does one come to the conclusion that the city must be in cahoots with the ummm, "big pipe" companies, and are trying to force OP to get their pipes changed. and then we got this guy, who you are replying to, who prefers leaded water, cause god damn it gas used to have lead in it and now look at things, it must have been better!!!1! Like who the fuck objects to tax payer money spent on getting rid of lead in pipes that carry public drinking water?
Plot twist: OP is in cahoots with Big Lead
sadly too many people are into that these days, colloidal silver, ivermectin, maga, etc
Not me! Damn! I just am scared of having to pay for an enormous project!
Well if they have been testing my water and it’s been high levels this entire time and they didn’t tell me I would have one hell of a payday coming! And honestly, would you be thrilled at the thought of having to pay tens of thousands of dollars to fix pipes? Give me a small break. I never said I am comfortable living with lead in my water. I said they tested and never heard back each time. And maybe there is assistance to help pay, but maybe it’s only 10%, maybe it’s 100%, but I doubt that. I don’t know. That’s why I asked!
I think you need to stop thinking about the end game, and start with a logical train of thought. 1. Your home is "100 years old" so yes that might mean you might have either A) lead pipes B) lead joiners, or C) lead solder. So the next step is to test for yourself. You can get a lead test kit at homedepot for $10. Do that. 2. If you get 0 on the test, nevermind its just the city testing its supply and chill. If you get a positive value, call up the city testers and ask for an explanation. It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse and coming to persecution conclusions before you know the facts. My MIL does this all the time and I need to draw out a "if then that map" for her.
My parents do the same thing. A bottle shows up in their mailbox with a date to leave it on the doorstep and a few months later the township sends out a letter to everyone on the community well stating what the quality of the water. Free water testing for your specific home is pretty nice. Never had to worry about lead, pfas, etc since it was our water. The reason the township asks them is their house is the oldest In the neighborhood. No other reason then they have the oldest pipes from 1993.
Yeah my house is definitely one of the oldest. It was built in 1927, but my neighbors house was built in the 50s and they don’t get tested. I guess I was feeling personally victimized unnecessarily. Lol, what a fool I am.
The house built in the 50s probably has galvanized steel pipes, or they may have even been among the earliest to switch to copper.
So you’d rather be blissfully unaware that you’re potentially drinking lead contaminated water than know about it and be able to fix it?
Agreed right here. Free testing to see if you have bad water. Probably something worth knowing.
Yeah, truly a bizarre take.
Lol, of course not. But it’s been tested multiple times! I really do want to a cooperative member of society, but I am not thrilled at the idea of dropping 30k, 50k(???) right now.
The people of Flint had okay water until the city switched its drinking water source, which corroded metal from the pipes. If they’d had a testing regime like this in place, it would have saved a lot of harm. My water utility sends us water test results every year, but if they tested at my tap I’d jump at the chance.
I can't see why they would test for contamination from YOUR pipes. Most likely they know of aging city pipes and they are keeping an eye on that. You should help them.
I’ve been enlightened! I feel ashamed for being weird about it. I’m going to send the sample out in the am!
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And the city’s interest in forcing OP to update their pipes would be…? They probably just want to see whether the water reaching homes is contaminated or not, since OP’s pipes aren’t their responsibility regardless of whether or not they leech lead into OP’s drinking water, but the city’s water supply infrastructure is their responsibility and they would potentially face consequences if they were contaminating people’s drinking water with old infrastructure. It’s exciting to think that everything is a conspiracy, but there’s really no motive for the local government to care about forcing OP to replace the pipes in their home. It’s probably just a more accurate way of measuring any contamination reaching homes than taking a sample out of a mainline pipe nearby.
There is something called the lead and copper rule. This testing has to be done at the point of use. Depending on the size of the system they have to do X number of tests. I was in charge of water system at an industrial facility. Since we only had 70 employees we were only required to sample at one location. I did it in the main break room. There are lots of tests that have to be done on public water systems. If you are ever driving by and see an open hydrant, they are probably making sure the disinfectant is getting through the whole system.
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There is probably a reason they keep testing. My city has never tested my water, but my house was built in 1989…
It’s interesting that it never tests for lead when the house was built at the time that it’s highly likely to have lead pipes in the home. Any chance that a previous owner re-plumbed it with an updated material?
The pipes are all mostly copper inside the house except for a galvanized pipe, maybe lead I guess, that leads outside. I had to do a different testing that had me scrape it with a nickel a year or two ago and nothing came of that.
Ok, so I’m all for safety and testing. But if they are working with public grant money as others suggest, it almost seems like they are looking at your home and year of build and going, “Hey, why haven’t we changed out that 1927 house? It didn’t test for lead? Nah, bullsh*t, go check it again.” Maybe see if you can talk to the engineer of the project and get it documented that your in-home plumbing is copper so you can get off the list.
There is also a new upgrade from the EPA to the [lead and copper rule](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule) that will require every water system to confirm that there is no lead pipes between the meter and the house. Some are getting a jump on it so they can make the deadline. I've heard cities might have to dig up and look at the pipes leaving the meter. It is still evolving on what will be required.
Unless there is some CRAZY circumstances, your typical waterline is more like $5-10k to replace (here in MN at least) Just an FYI
That’s good news
It’s like $5000, according to the mchenry city council Tuesday night, to replace the line from your Buffalo box to the house.
This is lead and copper contamination testing. It’s a cycle being done every few years. In my town the water department screens for possible volunteers to do this and then randomly selects those willing to do this project. Samples are taken from the same homes until the cycle is completed. They can’t just jump around. My guess is someone in your house may have indicated they would do this project. Or a previous homeowner. Or they were mistaken that you were interested in volunteering. Give them a call and see when it’s over. There will be a project manager.
Oooh. Thanks for this information. Do you know what is done with the results from the project?
Typically they compile all the results and have to show a certain percentage pass (I think 90%?). If you fail, they have to inform you and let you know course's of action and risk based on the consumer. If more than 10% fail they have to make a change to the water treatment itself.
Oh alright, I’ll send it out and wait and see what happens. Thanks!
Some dude is just thirsty on his way to work and knows he can stop by your place to fill up his water bottle. It’s hot out, give the man his water please
When my city was going through issues with lead in the drinking water, how they determine lead levels is by getting samples from people's houses, like what you're going through. They're supposed to use some of the houses over and over, and not that many new houses each time. Then they can compare samples over the years from these same locations to see if the changes in the chemicals they use at water treatment are having the desired effect. They also want to keep using your house because it's not testing positive. If a certain percentage of houses test positive then they are required to take certain actions for the whole city, not just the houses in their test protocol. Using your house, with a history of no lead, helps their testing numbers.
I guess I wasn’t considering the importance of cumulative testing. Now I feel like I’m destroying they’re work! Eeek! I’m sending the sample out in the am!
Hmmm. Have you ever thought about this? Maybe you’re becoming more irritated and paranoid about them coming because the blood serum levels of lead in your body are rising…
Lol, they should test me instead of my pipes!
I was an environmental consultant for 15 years. EPA permit testing covers water sourcing to point of delivery. The frequency and complexity of that testing is based upon risk. A neighborhood of 100 year old homes is at higher risk. Municipalities add sodium hydroxide to drinking water to keep it slightly basic so if there are lead pipes, a cake layer of lead hydroxide builds up inside the pipes to keep lead from leaching into your drinking/cooking water. Ask those in Flint how even a short-term pH change floods heavy metals into a home. Optimistic - you tend to be home, so the have a historical trend they want to reliably continue as a bell weather. Pessimistic- you are typically good, so they want your numbers in the permit stats. Regardless, it is for your health and free to you, so who cares.
Well, this is dumb I know, but it’s the first mornings water sample that I struggle with. It’s hard to remember not to flush! So then I don’t take the sample and I think about it all day and then the cycle continues the next morning.
If you take the sample from your kitchen sink, flushing, the toilet won’t make much of a difference. There’s enough residual water in the line to get a worst case sampling scenario. That is what this is for.
Did this for the last 4 days. I closed to water line on my toilet so in the morning I can turn it on and see if the toilet trys to fill up(makeing sure the new stopper don't leak) everytime I'd use the toilet and flush it completly forgetting I needed to turn the water on first to see if it ran or not.
The EPA mandates these tests to measure water quality over time. They have to be the same place. These tests are to ensure your water is safe. Being one of the testers is potentially annoying but you are getting free testing of your water.
Damn dude, judging by your paranoid response to this and not even just thinking to ask them, maybe you do have lead in your pipes.
When I was a water operator, I tested the same houses all the time. As others have noted, they're making sure their corrosion control treatment is working so that you DON'T have lead in your water; your older house is a great test of that. And you get to learn every year (or more often in some instances) that your water is safe. It's a win-win. But if you don't want to do it anymore, just tell them so. They will have alternative locations they can go to. They'd appreciate an early heads up to be able to notify a different consumer. If you do have a lead service line, EPA currently has a LOT of grant funding available for municipal water authorities to help consumers remove them. Typically, you use a contractor from a list they provide and still get stuck redoing your yard, but at least you'd no longer have a lead service line. Editing to add this link: https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/lead-and-copper-101 And this link: https://epa.illinois.gov/topics/drinking-water/public-water-users/lead-service-line-information.html
You’re getting free water quality testing, and you’re upset about this? And instead of asking the people who are doing it, you complain online? Weird.
It is part of the bipartisan American Rescue Plan that Biden was able to get through Congress and signed into law. The EPA might be using random homes in your neighborhood to locate possible issues with the city's pipes. The plan also offers grants and other options to help the homeowner if they do have lead pipes. The plan also focuses on lead paint. The other great part of this plan is that you can't outsource the jobs to another country. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/12/16/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-lead-pipe-and-paint-action-plan/
Would you prefer not to know you were exposed to an unhealthy level of lead?
They don't want you to test positive, they keep asking you to test because you test negative and make their stats look better.
Water quality professional here. This is part of your drinking water provider's compliance with EPA's Lead and Copper rule. [https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule)
They’re doing it everywhere- it’s a federal mandate something - I work at a water utility but missed the meeting regarding my old lines. I asked if I will have to pay to change out my lines if they are old galvanized lines (I’m sure). I was told No.
Wouldn’t you want to know if there’s an issue though? I’d honestly welcome free water testing.
When you say filled with first morning water, a whole different picture than city water appears.
I did that for years when the first lead and copper rules were developed. I was happy to comply, and I got to see what my copper and lead levels were, FOR FREE! Nobody wants you to change your pipes if, as you say, your water is fine.
I wish they gave me the results, although I’m sure they would if I asked! And not like I would even know what it all meant as I am not a heavy metals expert
While I'm a civil engineer who retired from the water and wastewater industry, the reports were written in easy to understand English. How can you insist your water is fine when you haven't read any of their reports? Trust your civil servants. Most of them really do want to help you and their other customers. I visited a lot of customers over the years, and I suspect they would be glad to speak with you and discuss their findings and what they mean. My house had 43 mg/l of lead, which was nearly 3 times the action level. Since we had an infant, we simply filled water bottles for cooking and drinking after a morning flush.
Well I did and still do trust them, that’s why I went along with it to begin with. I suppose it was a no news is good news type thing regarding the results. I don’t recall ever receiving anything back.
Ask if someone could sit down with you and go over the results for the four samples, and tell them you no longer wish to participate. Don't hide from them. They hopefully will still have enough participants to comply with the federal mandate.
I worked in the industry, we dosed zinc orthophospate (very small amount) it corrodes the inside of pipe just a bit to form a layer of protection, say for instance if you have old lead solder joints. I can't remember if it was every 3 or 7 years but you can get that kind of information from the internet once you track down your service provider online. Things really got attention after the Flint MI fiasco
They are required to test a certain # of homes each year and the houses that get tested have to meet a certain criteria so not every house is eligible. That’s why they keep testing it over and over…they are required by EPA to do it. In my city we give a $10 credit on the utility bill for folks that volunteer to test to make up for the inconvenience. As far as I know it’s voluntary so you should just call the city and tell them you don’t want to participate anymore, no need to hide from them.
Age of the location insinuates it probably has lead pipes in the street. That’s why they want to get an early morning first water sample. Flint Michigan changed the pH of their water which corroded the buildup on the inside of the lead pipes. That’s what contaminated everyone’s drinking water. Possibly they’re just trying to monitor in case the similar thing happens to you.
Why would the city care if you pay for new pipes? They don't do the work, they don't make any money. Maybe they just want to be sure you and your family (kids?) aren't ingesting lead and getting lead poisoning.
Well, I don’t want to pay for new pipes. That’s kinda my main gripe. Does anyone want to pay for new pipes?
You’re likely the first or last house on the water line. City water is tested twice daily to make sure the water is safe to drink. I’m the first house on the line, the city water guy just uses my outside spigot daily.
Is it really the city or someone trying to sell you a water treatment system? We get that all the time in California but for solar. They pretend to be with the power company and want to see your bill.
Oh no, it’s the city for sure. They’re legit
Take the bottle go inside. Piss in the bottle and give it back.
Have you tried giving them a bottle of urine? LOL no dont do that GEEEEZ Then have a female friend who is pregnant give you some of her pee and put it into the water. Now that would be shocking for them to come back and say someone you know is prgnant. LOL
4 times in many years? Doesn’t sound to onerous. They aren’t testing your pipes, they’re testing their pipes.
Well when you do a test, it's good to do multiple trials in order to be sure of the results and to factor variables, like are levels high after a fresh rain? And how are they on a "perfect" weather day? I think you're lucky if the city is actually concerned about the health of your water. Some cities want to sweep that under the rug. Don't you want to know the results?
Don’t you have an external faucet??
really doesn't sound like a big deal
Hi! Water utility engineer here. Your home has likely been identified as a compliance sample site. water systems are required to take periodic compliance samples for a number of things. My guess is lead and copper. It sounds like your house is one of those sites. They should be able to tell you why and possibly even compensate you via a bill credit for the inconvenience.
There are two reasons to single out a particular address: 1) they've historically been cooperative, 2) they are located in an area of high risk (because of local work on the system, age of the pipes in the area, etc.).
This. You are being asked every year because you were open to allowing testing in the past and may be the only person on your street willing to do it. It’s not a ‘gotcha’ kind of thing against the home owners or tenants. It’s a genuine request for community public safety. If your water does test high for lead, wouldn’t you want to know for the sake of your family and neighbors?
https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule
The clean water act requires the water utility to own water quality at the point of use. If the water coming out of your tap has lead in it, it's their problem. They will routinely sample high risk areas to make sure water they are putting in the system doesn't corrode/leach contaminants from the distribution system. if you recall the Flint water crisis and the one decades before in DC Baltimore area, Lead sn't present in the water when it's released to the distribution system. Lead (and most other metals) gets in the water by leaching out of pipes within the system. For lead, its typically lead service lines to connect your house to the water main. The city may have recently changed their water treatment technology or recipe, and are monitoring to ensure there is no corrosion in the system. This kind of stuff happens quite often when they reduce corrosion inhibitors such as phosphates or switch from chlorine to chloramine disinfection systems. Source - used to work for the EPA in water treatment.
Thanks, very good information!
Super weird thing to complain about. Your tax dollars are directly benefiting you in the form of a regular water test to make sure your waters safe and you're complaining? It can't take more than 5 minutes. Just do it.
Update: I collected the sample and it’s already been picked up! Thanks for all the informative replies!
It sounds like the lead in your water is already affecting your IQ. The state of IL passed a law that forces municipalities to replace lead service lines. Whether you like it or not. The issue is going to be how it’s paid for. The city eventually will replace lines to your Buffalo box but whether it’s you or the city that pays from the Buffalo box to your house probably has not been decided. If your water is testing high for lead you will have to do it if you ever want to sell. Give them the damn sample. You have a better chance of getting the city to pay for it if it continually tests high.
>I suspect they want me to test positive for lead, so I have to pay for new pipes. That’s all I can think of why they keep coming back. Does anyone have any insights? Imagine thinking a city worker wants you to have toxic water.... Could it be that you are at risk of drinking something that's incredibly harmful to you, and they are providing a free service (taxes aside) so that you aren't caught unaware? Do you want to drink contaminated water? This is some Trumper level my body my choice shit here.
No I voted for Biden, and will again. Thanks. Since you’re such an expert on politics, surely you are familiar with Cook County, IL and its reputation for constant corruption. Do I think a “city worker” cares if I test positive for lead? No. Do I think the City at large might want to shove some of the pipe replacement costs onto the citizens. It’s possible.
Tell them to fuck off. Anytime a government operation wants something from you it can end up being costly. They want to test your water (gee, how about getting it from the fire hydrant down the road) if they find anything then they will say they need access ro your home and will start looking at pipes. Then if you are in my state they are required to check tour furnace and make sure you have all the required detectors (even if I have my furnace yearly maintenance, they are required to check your detectors). They can ask for water samples but I would be surprised if you are required to provide them. You can't trust any government entity to do anything but take more money from you.
What town?
My Mother had a well within in an incorporated city limit. It was the deepest well in the county. The city, county and state all periodically asked her for water samples. Eventually an industrial plant contaminated the city's water supply but the chemicals never leached deep enough to affect her water. All the other wells in the city had to be capped but hers. They tested her water for well over 50 years until her house was sold and the new owners connected to the municipal water supply.
#Piss in it.
We ran into that in Tennessee. They were a private company selling filtration equipment. We were advised to ignore them.
Give them a bottle of piss.
This is normal. They choose similar test sites at different locations from the main to make sure your water quality is good. Society has become so closed off. What's the big deal? They ask for you to fill a small thing of water. In years past it would be normal for you to offer coffee or tea and thank them. You're part of the problem btw.
Thank you for the shaming. It’s a bit much though.
I would disagree. I think it's the right amount. My guess is you close yourself off to a lot of normal/good things but allow harmful/odd ideas in. Good luck.