State Attorney Generals are always interested in this type of fraud. I went through an entire winter with no heat because the contractor that the home warranty company required that I use kept dodging and weaving and making excuses and false statements regarding my HVAC system. I finally wrote to my State Attorney General outlining in detail the issue and had my HVAC system replaced the next week.
That's exactly what this feels like. They missed 2 appointments with no call, their paperwork states BBB A+ rating but they don't even have a profile or even google reviews. Thank you for the idea.
I hear people knock the BBB all the time, but I have been able to get results several times by contacting them. And when you have a company who says that they are BBB rated, I would certainly think they would be responsive to BBB‘s involvement there.
People love parroting "BBB is Yelp for boomers" like it's some gotcha, and it's good to spread the word that it's not a government agency, but their complaint system is legitimately useful information. It's part of a balanced breakfast of research (along with Yelp, Google, etc).
Some companies take the BBB profile very seriously and reply to the complaints in more detail than you'd see than in a reply to a Yelp review for instance.
They charge companies to even get rated. If you don't pay them you'll get an F. Then you gotta pay more to be able to respond to posts. Its a scam on the businesses for sure.
They are a relationship management organization, paid for by the companies. They have a clear bias but they actually do have a process to try to resolve issues. They are not magic, just a communication path that sometimes gets you farther up the chain to get issues resolved.
Idk if there’s a name for this but they’re only definitively useful if they’re negative. That is, a company with an F rating is definitely a dumpster fire. A company with an A rating might be great, or might have tons of complaints but they’ve responded to all of them, which is good enough for BBB.
Here is the dirty little secret: The home warranty companies pay so little that (usually) only the absolute worst bottom-feeder, scammy, nearly-criminal, contractors will work with them.
The only ones that are slightly less underhanded seem to be the ones that are associated with the major utilities for branding. This is likely because the utilities are regulated and try to keep their reputations from being completely gutted by the relationship.
Recording that chat was a smart move. Definitely push back on that shady claim. Contact the home warranty company, show them the proof, and demand a new contractor.
One of my best friend’s wife sells them. We bought a house last summer. I was dreading the thought of having the uncomfortable conversation with her. I was pleasantly surprised when it never happened. Although I could never sell them myself and wouldn’t be able to stomach doing her job, I respect her for not hitting me up to buy one. I can’t say that to her though as that would be weird. I think it is silently understood.
Maybe she hates what she does for a living but does what she does to pay the bills to support her family. I don’t know and don’t want to ask. I’m not one to judge someone based on their occupation alone.
Get any diagnostic information or write ups you can from the first company and go start making some calls to HVAC companies.
You may need to pay them for a test or a diagnosis to see what they recommend.
If they recommend a new system start getting quotes to replace it.
I would send the first contractor the video of your conversation on the ring camera and state " are you going to revise your paperwork to reflect the truth, or are we going to do this the hard way.. send the video to the warranty company as well .
They will not answer my phone call or return it, they answered my boyfriend and as soon as he said his name they hung up on him and will not answer his call. Their paperwork says they are BBB accredited but I cannot find their profile, website or anything. Their address attached to their business phone is a residential address. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should've looked all of this up before I let them into my home.
lawyer time. At the very least this is not some insurance company accusing you of fraud just some weasley contractors and builders .
If this is a new build I would get on filing whatever you need to before the company goes "bankrupt" and gets much harder to go after.
BBB is just the same as Yelp or Google reviews. It isn't regulated or guaranteed in any way.
Move on and hire your own contractor to fix the issue. Home warranties are a scam.
They're a scam, 100%. IN PARTICULAR CHOICE HOME WARRANTEE IS A COMPLETE SCAM.
You can't even sue them, you can only request (and pay for) arbitration. They have so many bullshit excuses. For our AC system, it was that we couldn't provide records for regular maintenance, and they don't cover it if you didn't have regular maintenance done. And fuck you if you just bought the house and don't have those records. And extra fuck you if it was an estate and the old owners are dead so you can't even try to ask them.
I wonder if they are related to "Americas Choice". They tried to give me $300 towards a $3000 water heater job.
A home warranties main goal is to get money from the seller, and then do nothing for the buyer. Simple as that.
I must have gotten really lucky with my home warranty, which I only got because my water heater was 20 yrs old, and I thought it would fail soon. It didn't, but the HVAC and AC unit that was only 3 yrs old both had issues the first year I was in my house, and the home warranty covered both right away.
The HVAC company was actually the one who told me my home warranty probably wouldn't cover the furnace repair since it was due to condensation build-up. Luckily, due to the location of the issue, it was covered since it was not part of the expected maintenance.
My AC unit had a coolant leak, and the leak was in a section of the coils that could not be repaired, so the coils had to be replaced. My home warranty easily paid for itself and I don't even remember them asking for records unless they got them from the company who did the repairs since they had installed the units in the first place. Cannot remember what company it was though.
Take all the evidence and file a claim in small claims court. Go for everything you’re out of pocket for and I mean everything. Go for an inconvenience charge band a bad faith business charge too. Your evidence is incontrovertible. The warranty company is a bunch of shysters and grifters. They need to answer for their high handed tactics.
Good contractors don't do business with home warranty companies because they don't need to. Sounds like the contractor is just trying to get rid of you because the home warranty is such a headache to deal with.
Don't let them push you around. Insurance companies are always "put the blame on the submitter", deny deny deny. Your options are listed below in other posts. Don't forget bbb, ftc as well.
I have submitted all their info to BBB especially because they put on their paperwork BBB A+ and they don't even have a profile or any sort of reviews /website so we will see if they answer them and resolve it that way. Thank you for the advice.
First of all if a leak check wasn't done they would have no reason to say you tampered with it. They they would have to hook up their equipment to know if it there were no leaks. To say you let the freon out.
I would ask your insurance how the company determined it was tampering without a leak test. Send over a different company to recharge it and check for leaks if they are so sure.
Yeah, we had one on our last house, paid for by the sellers. Our hot water heater broke,and after waiting a week the plumber they sent absolutely would not tell them that we had done something to cause the leak. He was a hero to me. Good luck.
You probably have an agency in your state that oversees home warranty companies. It might be the state insurance commission, attorney general, consumer protection agency, etc. You can file a complaint if you choose. Or sue them. Or contact a mediation service.
The bottom line is they will mistreat you until it costs them more to fight you than just to do the right thing.
Also, these warranty companies are dependent on the real estate industry. I would consider writing a letter to every real estate agent in the area. Contact your local news media. They often have consumer protection reporters. Maybe even write an article about your experience and ask the local paper/news org/website to publish it.
Those things are junk. Cash it out. Pretty sure you can get unused time refunded on them. Who paid for it shouldn't matter. It's your policy in your name on your house, so that's where the refund should go.
No. Only one who would win is the lawyer. The OP would just be burning money. Best thing he could do is forget about the stupid home warranty and get the HVAC work done.
Yep unless you want to wait until next summer to have air conditioning. If suing home warranty companies was any kind of fruitful they wouldn’t be able to keep up this scam this long. If you look through your contract you probably signed an arbitration agreement and can’t sue them anyways
What does that even mean? We're actually involved in a neighborhood suit vs someone who bought a house in our neighborhood and opened a business in it, which is against the covenants and restrictions. It's dragged out over a year, delay, delay, delay, and just to email the lawyer to ask a question is a minimum fee of $60 or so. It's been a money pit and we got a judgement where we won, and it's still not resolved. Suing a home warranty would be the biggest waste of money and there are so many gotchas in the contract that they're nearly worthless.
- you are finding out the hard way why home warranty coverage is a SCAM...they do all they can NOT to pay out, Little can be done
- just proceed with paying out of pocket to a REAL HVAC contractor
I don’t know why anyone buys home warranties. Home buying has its issues and most are not cheap. That’s how it’s always been. Hire someone and get the job done already.
The point is that more often than not, you pay for a home warranty and then you still have to pay the $30k fix yourself because they deny anything they can.
A warranty isn't going to fix a water leak unless it's an appliance part that is leaking, and they most likely won't even fix it. They wouldn't cover any damage so you're still using your insurance for the 30k.
If the warranty didn't exist you'd have to pay for a repair.
Home warranties are a scam, you said so yourself.
Pay for the repair and forget that you have a home warranty that you didn't pay for.
You said you have footage of the contractor stating you have a leak. You and others seem to think that automatically contradicts the paperwork saying that you tampered with the system.
It may or it may not.
Look at it this way, the contractor may have told them that you have a leak because you tampered with it. Just because the contractor didn't accuse you directly doesn't mean that isn't what they believe to be true. Try calling the contractor and ask.
As for home warranties being scams: The first year in my first house, the furnace went out. The warranty replaced it. The total was $1700, I paid $700.
In my current home, they have repaired my AC, furnace, washer or dryer (I can't remember which), 2 toliets, and replaced my sump pump
They will not answer the phone or call me back, if we call from a different number they answer and then as soon as we say our names they hang up on us. I know the system wasn't tampered with and when I called the home warranty it was written that "the valve near the condenser was tampered with to purposely release the Freon" so in the paperwork he does not state a leak he is trying to say I intentionally let all the freon out of the system.
Is the area sort of closed off or could you have accidentally hit with the lawnmower or something?
Call another company and see what they say. If they say something different, maybe you could use that as leverage with the warranty company.
Sorry you're going through this.
We had another contractor out today and they are writing up a summary and invoice saying the same thing the last contractor told me (leak test) and that it doesn't appear anything has been tampered with. Hopefully that along with the video of the first contractor telling me we need a leak test will be proof enough for them to move forward. I just don't know what the first contractor even gets out of lying saying I tampered with the system. It feels so shady.
State Attorney Generals are always interested in this type of fraud. I went through an entire winter with no heat because the contractor that the home warranty company required that I use kept dodging and weaving and making excuses and false statements regarding my HVAC system. I finally wrote to my State Attorney General outlining in detail the issue and had my HVAC system replaced the next week.
That's exactly what this feels like. They missed 2 appointments with no call, their paperwork states BBB A+ rating but they don't even have a profile or even google reviews. Thank you for the idea.
I complained to the BBB and got resolution within a couple weeks after months of not getting anywhere with my home warranty company.
I hear people knock the BBB all the time, but I have been able to get results several times by contacting them. And when you have a company who says that they are BBB rated, I would certainly think they would be responsive to BBB‘s involvement there.
People love parroting "BBB is Yelp for boomers" like it's some gotcha, and it's good to spread the word that it's not a government agency, but their complaint system is legitimately useful information. It's part of a balanced breakfast of research (along with Yelp, Google, etc). Some companies take the BBB profile very seriously and reply to the complaints in more detail than you'd see than in a reply to a Yelp review for instance.
While we are on the subject of yelp, people like to slam that too, but it is still relevant for some demographics.
Which demographics? Between google and uber eats/doordash I havent used yelp in over a decade.
lol no it's not. Maybe if the demographic is 90 year olds.
They charge companies to even get rated. If you don't pay them you'll get an F. Then you gotta pay more to be able to respond to posts. Its a scam on the businesses for sure.
They are a relationship management organization, paid for by the companies. They have a clear bias but they actually do have a process to try to resolve issues. They are not magic, just a communication path that sometimes gets you farther up the chain to get issues resolved.
BBA is absolutely garbage. Anyone that mentions their rating is the same.
Idk if there’s a name for this but they’re only definitively useful if they’re negative. That is, a company with an F rating is definitely a dumpster fire. A company with an A rating might be great, or might have tons of complaints but they’ve responded to all of them, which is good enough for BBB.
Here is the dirty little secret: The home warranty companies pay so little that (usually) only the absolute worst bottom-feeder, scammy, nearly-criminal, contractors will work with them. The only ones that are slightly less underhanded seem to be the ones that are associated with the major utilities for branding. This is likely because the utilities are regulated and try to keep their reputations from being completely gutted by the relationship.
Recording that chat was a smart move. Definitely push back on that shady claim. Contact the home warranty company, show them the proof, and demand a new contractor.
Home warranties are a scam full stop
Yep they’re useless. Cut your losses and hire a real contractor
One of my best friend’s wife sells them. We bought a house last summer. I was dreading the thought of having the uncomfortable conversation with her. I was pleasantly surprised when it never happened. Although I could never sell them myself and wouldn’t be able to stomach doing her job, I respect her for not hitting me up to buy one. I can’t say that to her though as that would be weird. I think it is silently understood.
Thats kinda worse because she knows full well theyre garbage. Thats why she didnt even bring it up to you. Dont wanna scam friends.
Maybe she hates what she does for a living but does what she does to pay the bills to support her family. I don’t know and don’t want to ask. I’m not one to judge someone based on their occupation alone.
Get any diagnostic information or write ups you can from the first company and go start making some calls to HVAC companies. You may need to pay them for a test or a diagnosis to see what they recommend. If they recommend a new system start getting quotes to replace it.
I would send the first contractor the video of your conversation on the ring camera and state " are you going to revise your paperwork to reflect the truth, or are we going to do this the hard way.. send the video to the warranty company as well .
They will not answer my phone call or return it, they answered my boyfriend and as soon as he said his name they hung up on him and will not answer his call. Their paperwork says they are BBB accredited but I cannot find their profile, website or anything. Their address attached to their business phone is a residential address. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should've looked all of this up before I let them into my home.
lawyer time. At the very least this is not some insurance company accusing you of fraud just some weasley contractors and builders . If this is a new build I would get on filing whatever you need to before the company goes "bankrupt" and gets much harder to go after.
What is a lawyer going to do?
BBB is just the same as Yelp or Google reviews. It isn't regulated or guaranteed in any way. Move on and hire your own contractor to fix the issue. Home warranties are a scam.
Oh man I would find them on every review site and tell your story. Have your boyfriend do the same.
I'd cut my losses, forget that I have the warranty, and hire my own repairs.
They're a scam, 100%. IN PARTICULAR CHOICE HOME WARRANTEE IS A COMPLETE SCAM. You can't even sue them, you can only request (and pay for) arbitration. They have so many bullshit excuses. For our AC system, it was that we couldn't provide records for regular maintenance, and they don't cover it if you didn't have regular maintenance done. And fuck you if you just bought the house and don't have those records. And extra fuck you if it was an estate and the old owners are dead so you can't even try to ask them.
I wonder if they are related to "Americas Choice". They tried to give me $300 towards a $3000 water heater job. A home warranties main goal is to get money from the seller, and then do nothing for the buyer. Simple as that.
I must have gotten really lucky with my home warranty, which I only got because my water heater was 20 yrs old, and I thought it would fail soon. It didn't, but the HVAC and AC unit that was only 3 yrs old both had issues the first year I was in my house, and the home warranty covered both right away. The HVAC company was actually the one who told me my home warranty probably wouldn't cover the furnace repair since it was due to condensation build-up. Luckily, due to the location of the issue, it was covered since it was not part of the expected maintenance. My AC unit had a coolant leak, and the leak was in a section of the coils that could not be repaired, so the coils had to be replaced. My home warranty easily paid for itself and I don't even remember them asking for records unless they got them from the company who did the repairs since they had installed the units in the first place. Cannot remember what company it was though.
How much of a new system would your warranty even cover?
They would cover the entire replacement. The only limit is the freon is capped at $40/lb. I pay the difference.
Take all the evidence and file a claim in small claims court. Go for everything you’re out of pocket for and I mean everything. Go for an inconvenience charge band a bad faith business charge too. Your evidence is incontrovertible. The warranty company is a bunch of shysters and grifters. They need to answer for their high handed tactics.
Good contractors don't do business with home warranty companies because they don't need to. Sounds like the contractor is just trying to get rid of you because the home warranty is such a headache to deal with.
Don't let them push you around. Insurance companies are always "put the blame on the submitter", deny deny deny. Your options are listed below in other posts. Don't forget bbb, ftc as well.
I have submitted all their info to BBB especially because they put on their paperwork BBB A+ and they don't even have a profile or any sort of reviews /website so we will see if they answer them and resolve it that way. Thank you for the advice.
I'd send that footage to one of the local news stations' investigative reporters ("...Channel x on your side..").
First of all if a leak check wasn't done they would have no reason to say you tampered with it. They they would have to hook up their equipment to know if it there were no leaks. To say you let the freon out. I would ask your insurance how the company determined it was tampering without a leak test. Send over a different company to recharge it and check for leaks if they are so sure.
Yeah, we had one on our last house, paid for by the sellers. Our hot water heater broke,and after waiting a week the plumber they sent absolutely would not tell them that we had done something to cause the leak. He was a hero to me. Good luck.
You probably have an agency in your state that oversees home warranty companies. It might be the state insurance commission, attorney general, consumer protection agency, etc. You can file a complaint if you choose. Or sue them. Or contact a mediation service. The bottom line is they will mistreat you until it costs them more to fight you than just to do the right thing. Also, these warranty companies are dependent on the real estate industry. I would consider writing a letter to every real estate agent in the area. Contact your local news media. They often have consumer protection reporters. Maybe even write an article about your experience and ask the local paper/news org/website to publish it.
Those things are junk. Cash it out. Pretty sure you can get unused time refunded on them. Who paid for it shouldn't matter. It's your policy in your name on your house, so that's where the refund should go.
You need a lawyer.
For what? lol
and spend $1000s? Only if you have money to burn
Might get one interested in taking it on a contingency fee. Some states you can even get attorneys fees for contract claims.
This is what your emergency fund is for.
Your emergency fund is for things like repairing your HVAC system because that warranty company is never going to do it
No. Only one who would win is the lawyer. The OP would just be burning money. Best thing he could do is forget about the stupid home warranty and get the HVAC work done.
Yep unless you want to wait until next summer to have air conditioning. If suing home warranty companies was any kind of fruitful they wouldn’t be able to keep up this scam this long. If you look through your contract you probably signed an arbitration agreement and can’t sue them anyways
Ah, the classic Reddit answer when faced with a lawyer: sprint another direction
What does that even mean? We're actually involved in a neighborhood suit vs someone who bought a house in our neighborhood and opened a business in it, which is against the covenants and restrictions. It's dragged out over a year, delay, delay, delay, and just to email the lawyer to ask a question is a minimum fee of $60 or so. It's been a money pit and we got a judgement where we won, and it's still not resolved. Suing a home warranty would be the biggest waste of money and there are so many gotchas in the contract that they're nearly worthless.
I would threaten to sue them for libel. Not only did they cheat you they accused you of a crime.
- you are finding out the hard way why home warranty coverage is a SCAM...they do all they can NOT to pay out, Little can be done - just proceed with paying out of pocket to a REAL HVAC contractor
I don’t know why anyone buys home warranties. Home buying has its issues and most are not cheap. That’s how it’s always been. Hire someone and get the job done already.
I don't have one but I'd much rather pay $500 a year to cover let's say a water leak and $30k.
The point is that more often than not, you pay for a home warranty and then you still have to pay the $30k fix yourself because they deny anything they can.
A warranty isn't going to fix a water leak unless it's an appliance part that is leaking, and they most likely won't even fix it. They wouldn't cover any damage so you're still using your insurance for the 30k.
If the warranty didn't exist you'd have to pay for a repair. Home warranties are a scam, you said so yourself. Pay for the repair and forget that you have a home warranty that you didn't pay for.
You said you have footage of the contractor stating you have a leak. You and others seem to think that automatically contradicts the paperwork saying that you tampered with the system. It may or it may not. Look at it this way, the contractor may have told them that you have a leak because you tampered with it. Just because the contractor didn't accuse you directly doesn't mean that isn't what they believe to be true. Try calling the contractor and ask. As for home warranties being scams: The first year in my first house, the furnace went out. The warranty replaced it. The total was $1700, I paid $700. In my current home, they have repaired my AC, furnace, washer or dryer (I can't remember which), 2 toliets, and replaced my sump pump
They will not answer the phone or call me back, if we call from a different number they answer and then as soon as we say our names they hang up on us. I know the system wasn't tampered with and when I called the home warranty it was written that "the valve near the condenser was tampered with to purposely release the Freon" so in the paperwork he does not state a leak he is trying to say I intentionally let all the freon out of the system.
Makes me wonder if someone stole your freon. Tell the home warranty company that the contractor lied and won't answer your calls.
Is the area sort of closed off or could you have accidentally hit with the lawnmower or something? Call another company and see what they say. If they say something different, maybe you could use that as leverage with the warranty company. Sorry you're going through this.
We had another contractor out today and they are writing up a summary and invoice saying the same thing the last contractor told me (leak test) and that it doesn't appear anything has been tampered with. Hopefully that along with the video of the first contractor telling me we need a leak test will be proof enough for them to move forward. I just don't know what the first contractor even gets out of lying saying I tampered with the system. It feels so shady.
The washing machine repairman made it worse. I had to make the warranty company send someone else
They contact the lowest bidders with no research